16 Responses

  1. Richard Witty
    April 13, 2010, 12:54 pm

    Hard to know what you are saying.

    Both seemed to me to be very appealing sentiments. I assume that there is some imagined abuse by the “likely suspect” ADL.

    • matt
      April 13, 2010, 1:01 pm

      The message is pretty clear: J Street supports the blurring of church/state boundaries in Israel by endorsing “Jewish democracy,” while the ADL praises Stevens for upholding that fundamental separation in the U.S.

      • Richard Witty
        April 13, 2010, 1:12 pm

        I guess I missed the coded language.

        “Zionism is racism” again.

        Phil published this fascist formula?

      • Chaos4700
        April 13, 2010, 1:16 pm

        It’s not “coded lanugage.” If you don’t have a fucking clue, just say so. No need to put on a tinfoil hat.

      • matt
        April 13, 2010, 1:21 pm

        Don’t be foolish. There was no mention of racism, or Zionism. Just the hypocrisy of Jewish groups in the U.S. who endorse liberal, universalist democracy here, and ethnic/religious exclusivist democracy over there. I wonder how J Street and the ADL would feel if the U.S. declared itself a white, Christian democracy.

      • Cliff
        April 13, 2010, 1:42 pm

        Exactly. You should know though, that Witty’s specialty is vague, abstract, intentionally superficial interpretations and arguments.

      • Donald
        April 13, 2010, 7:33 pm

        First time I ever heard separation of church and state referred to as a fascist formula. Live and learn.

  2. Duscany
    April 13, 2010, 1:30 pm

    If anyone were to write a column extolling the virtues of “Aryan democracy” everyone here would instantly recognize the contradiction in terms. On the other hand, if anyone extols “Jewish democracy” suddenly everyone’s critical thinking centers get all shorted out by golden glow of pastrami on rye and chicken soup.

    Here’s the point. If Aryan democracy is bad for non-Aryans, Jewish democracy is bad for non-Jews.

    • eee
      April 13, 2010, 2:25 pm

      Is Japanese democracy bad for non-Japanese? Hungarian democracy for non-Hungarians? Give it a break.

      • Chaos4700
        April 13, 2010, 2:38 pm

        Your problem, eee, is you don’t recognize that true democracy doesn’t belong to any one ethnic group. And that’s the point Duscany was making.

      • robin
        April 13, 2010, 3:47 pm

        Jewish is a race, or a religion. Hungarian and Japanese are terms of nationality that can be used to refer to racial background or cultural background or citizenship in a state. One can be a Palestinian Muslim Hungarian, but never a Palestinian Muslim Jew.

        The parallel with “Japanese” and “Hungarian” would be with “Israeli”. “Israeli democracy” is not an inherently exclusionary formulation. “Israel”, like “Hungary” and “Japan”, is the name of state, in which any race/religion/culture can theoretically be a member. Although in reality the term “Israel” is culturally specific and not inclusive (imposed), and membership in it is exclusive along ethnic/religious lines. A better state and state name would be an Israel-Palestine.

  3. Howard
    April 13, 2010, 2:20 pm

    The quote from Justice Stevens reads:

    “Whenever we remove a brick from the wall that was designed to separate religion and government, we increase the risk of religious strife and weaken the foundations of our democracy.”

    I believe that he could easily be describing the cause of many of the problems confronting present day Israel – the lethal mixture of religion and democracy.

    I remember reading a observation, I can’t remember who and where, that one of the world’s great ironies is that throughout the Diaspora, Jews would thrive when they found themselves in a society generally tolerant and accepting of religious, ethnic and cultural diversity. Yet, in their own state, in order to thrive many Jews believe they must be religiously, ethnically, and culturally intolerant.

    • Howard
      April 13, 2010, 2:22 pm

      Correction: That should read the lethal mixture of religion and government.

  4. DICKERSON3870
    April 13, 2010, 2:53 pm

    Take Action NOW: Support Divestment at UC Berkeley‏
    From: US Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation ([email protected])
    Sent: Tue 4/13/10

    Tomorrow the Associated Students of the University of California Berkeley (ASUC) will cast its final vote on whether to divest from two corporations profiting from Israeli occupation and apartheid. This means that you have one last chance to support the divestment resolution by asking ASUC student senators to overturn their president’s veto of the resolution.
    To send a message urging ASUC student senators to support divestmentlink to salsa.democracyinaction.org

  5. Avi
    April 13, 2010, 7:27 pm

    The new Israeli policy on permits and deportation that was discussed here a few days ago is already in effect.

    I received today an e-mail from a friend in East Jerusalem. She writes that she went to renew her driver’s license with Israeli authorities. Upon seeing her ID card, the clerk refused to issue her a new driver’s license.

    The reason?

    According to her ID card she was born in Ramallah, therefore Israel does not consider her to be a resident of East Jerusalem, despite her residing in Jerusalem for the past 20 years and holding a blue ID card (issued to Israelis) as a resident of East Jerusalem.

    • Chaos4700
      April 13, 2010, 7:54 pm

      Isn’t this how the progression of Nazi occupation looked? First it was the Yellow Stars of David, determining where Jews could go, where they could live, what they were allowed to do…

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