Why should anyone believe in the two-state solution? Does Obama? His chief of staff Rahm Emanuel and family took a tour of the occupied Golan Heights on an Israeli military helicopter the other day, per Maariv (and Coteret). Look at the pictures of the excited family jumping off the helicopter. Tonight on Chris Matthews, Andrea Mitchell noted that Emanuel is in Israel for his son's bar mitzvah. "God bless him." Why do I feel confused?
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For the chosen, the two states are really only one. America is Israel and Israel is America. Probably wanted to show support for the settlers and the WB would have been too flagrant. The Golan occupation isn’t any more legitimate than the WB one.
After I understood that the present plight of the Palestinian refugees (Nakba) are results of many rejectionist blunders of Arab leadership in 1948 and the consecutive wars 1967, 1973, 2008, negotiations under UN Resolutions etc., and the collective rejection of the offer by former Jordanian leader to accommodate displaced Arabs… and the professed global obsession of Islamists to kill the Jews, and destroy Israel and all the western civilization… I do not believe on this two-state solution anymore…
Better leave this conflict at that…and let the militant Palestinian Hamas formally solve the Palestinian governance problems…
If the UNRWA decides to sustain a culture of economic and social mendicacy among Gazans towards the UN and donor countries, its their moral choice…
“After I understood that the present plight”
You understood nada!
You must admit, the relentless brutality of zamaaz’z idiocy and the idiotic cheerfulness with which he parodies reasonableness and rationality gives his comments an almost emetic quality. You could keep them in the medicine cabinet as a purgative.
Has any US official visited Golan Height before without permsiion from UN or Syria?
I’m confused by that question.
Here’s a map of the occupied Golan, currently under Israeli control:
link to passia.org
By taking the tour in occupied territory isn’t US approving the occupation that is otherwise deemed illegal under UN or international laws?
There is some kind of ban on US government employees traveling in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. I’m not sure if it just applies to local embassy staff or the broader civil service. It definitely either doesn’t apply to or is ignored by the higher-ups. Maybe someone who knows more can elaborate.
Slightly off topic:
PBS aired an interview tonight that Charlie Rose conducted with Khaled Mish’al in Damascus.
It was a pretty good interview, not so much for Rose’s questions, but the answers viewers got to hear.
When one filters out all the noise that’s tacked on by the MSM in the US and the various politicians, Hamas seems to be far more reasonable that the Israeli government itself. Mish’al, for example, emphasized that Hamas’ objective is to establish an independent Palestinian state within the 1967 borders. He explained that he prefers that Israel withdrew to the 1967 border, peacefully, so as to prevent bloodshed on both sides. But, he continued, if Israel refuses, then Hamas has the legitimate right to resist the occupation and seek liberation, much in the same way that the 13 colonies fought against the British crown seeking liberation and freedom. If only Netanyahu could be as reasonable.
Why would Netanyahu be reasonable when being unreasonable, backed militarily and economically by the US, has ensured Israel gets its way all the time and was the basis on which the state was established?
When one filters out all the noise that’s tacked on by the MSM in the US and the various politicians, Hamas seems to be far more reasonable that the Israeli government itself.
Ditto Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, who was on Charlie Rose a couple nights ago. It was a pleasure listening to him speak. He was completely logical and rational. Rose of course repeatedly attempted to paint Iran, Hezbollah, and Hamas as bad guys, and refused to indict Israel for anything. But al-Assad kept calmly bringing the issue back to the fact of the occupation.
I doubt there are any politicians in this country who could match wits with al-Assad. He was brilliant.
Absolutely right on Bashar al-Assad. Really thoughtful and logical. His points on not understanding the culture of the Middle East are really valid, and the Obama administration displays the same hard-headed ignorance as Bush.
What about the descendants of the 1948 refugees, Avi?
I started watching about 10 minutes after the interview had started. In the portion that I watched, the refugees were not mentioned by neither Rose or Mish’al. Rose focused on the Gaza Strip throughout the interview.
RE: “Why do I feel confused?” – Weiss
MY COMMENT: “No comment.” (I’m going to assume that’s rhetorical!)
RE: “Rahm Emanuel and family took a tour of the occupied Golan Heights on an Israeli military helicopter the other day, per Maariv (and Coteret).” – Weiss
ALSO SEE: IDF causes disastrous blaze in Golan – Ynetnews, 05/28/10
(excerpt) Firefighting teams succeeded Thursday in putting out a flame that devoured more than 17,000 acres of vegetation in the Golan Heights. The fire was caused by IDF fire drills, and the army has ordered an investigation into the matter.
Fire Department spokesman Yair Elkayam told Ynet, “Unfortunately this was a huge fire that caused a very big natural disaster, for animals as well as plants.”
He said the area most affected by the blaze was the Gamla nature reserve, which also contains archaeological sites that may have also been damaged.
As in the cases of many recent fires in the Golan Heights, the blaze was caused by a military drill. GOC Northern Command Gadi Eizenkot ordered the establishment of an investigative team, which has been ordered to submit its conclusions in the coming days.
The Golan Regional Council issued a statement saying that the fire “caused serious harm to the unique nature and animals in the Golan”.
The statement noted that roughly a third of the region’s land is dedicated to IDF firing and drilling ranges…
ENTIRE ARTICLE – link to ynetnews.com
It is an example of what I have been talking about since I have posted here. It is the privilege of colonialism for the few, supported by the state apparatus. These things have been going on for centuries, and you just witnessed it in action.
One important point of info regarding the Golan is not often mentioned. During the ’67 War, the Israelis were unable to do a complete ethnic cleansing on the West Bank. They started with the three villages in the Latrun salient, and also managed to panic the inhabitants of several refugee camps into crossing the River to the East Bank. There is reason to believe that a displacement operation did not continue due to the close connections between the US and the West Bank. For all of the fact of the US being in Israel’s pocket, it is also true that there is a US Consulate in Eastern Jerusalem, with Consuls who have had a tradition of being sympathetic to the Palestinians and reporting on their case. Various Palestinian towns, most notably Ramallah, had more of its offspring already living in the US with as US citizens than in the town itself. And there is a century old tradition of Americans living and working in the area as missionaries, educators, and so on, to say nothing of the tourists who passed through the Holy Land. So the Israelis were relatively limited in what they could get away with in the way of misbehavior.
On the other hand the Golan Heights were off anyone’s map. No Americans traveled or lived there. It was not on the road to anywhere and was to a great extent a restricted military area. Syria did not have the close relations with the US that Jordan did. So when the Golan was conquered it was easy to evict about 120 thousand people who included local peasants, Bedu, Circassians, and Palestinian refugees from ’48. The Druse were not cleansed in hopes they would become collaborators. Also the village of Ghajjar, inhabited by an obscure offshoot of Alawis and separated from their co-sectarians in northern Syria was not displaced. (This is the one so remote that it is not clear if it is in Syria or Lebanon. For their part the inhabitants smuggle hashish).
So perversely, as a consequence of a more severe conquest, there is less apparent controversy. The settlers on the Golan are not rubbing up against locals. When they take more water or land there are no locals to protest. There are no demonstrating peasants to get shot and get the attention of the world. The Israeli Army can have live fire exercises and set the place on fire. There is less of a sense of occupation although it is really more of one. We must remember this.
Thanks, HP. The large-scale expulsion of the Syrian population of the Golan is often forgotten. I urge those who limit their boycott of Israeli goods to the settlements to remember that the Golan settlements are no better (and in some ways worse) than those in the WB. The main export products of the Golan settlements are wine (Yarden and Gamla labels) and fresh fruit (mostly to Europe).
Video of the Syrian ghost town of Quneitra, with Fairuz on vocals!
link to shunya.net
Ghost town.
I’ve never actually seen the town from within the DMZ. It looks like it was a beautiful town.
From the Israeli side, the first time I drove by along the border, I could see Quneitra less than a few hundred yards away. Many buildings were in bad shape. Bullet holes were still visible in many. But, once I stopped the vehicle, stepped out, shut the engine off, the eeriness and stillness of everything around was rather disconcerting. There was not a human being in sight, barbed wire everywhere and some minefield warning signs. It stood there as testament to the destruction of Israeli expansionism.
I hope that one day the town’s residents will return and the town will be rebuilt with financial assistance from Israel.
Phil, with all due respect, this post betrays some ignorance on your part.
1. You ask “Why should anyone believe in the two-state solution?”, but nobody is suggesting that Israel should hand control of the Golan Heights over to a Palestinian state. The international community considers the Golan Heights to be Israeli-occupied Syrian territory.
2. Israel formally annexed the Golan Heights in 1981. As you know, Israel has never annexed Gaza or the West Bank (except greater Jerusalem), although that is what one-state supporters want Israel to do. But as far as Israel’s own laws are concerned, the Golan Heights are as much a part of Israel as Tel Aviv is.
Peter in SF, I’m sure Phil must be grateful to you for the geography quickie on the Golan.
Israel has never annexed the WB except for Jerusalem? You probably also believe that a woman can be half-pregnant and agree with Dershowitz that Israel should disregard international laws that are not in its favour.
And of course, Peter demonstrates one of the Zionist rhetorical techniques which make them so convincing. You are always halfway to winning your argument when you start out by calling out your correspondent’s “ignorance”. (And a win is guaranteed if you get to “anti-Semitic”. )
“But as far as Israel’s own laws are concerned…” Case closed!
Mr. Weiss probably feels confused because member of serving American administration has just been shown illegally annexed land, and nothing in his demina indicated disaproval of a blatant braking of international law. Quite the opposite, it sounds like triumphalist family outing celebrating ownership of spoils of war by his Israeli compatriots, which of course brings the question of divided loyalties.
Eva, it’s probably because Phil is still stuck on Obama’s Cairo speech to the Muslims at large that had given hope to so many. Its apparent purpose is now seen as a helping hand to the Arab rulers with restless natives at home. Obama’s speech was just another stalling gimmick and Emanuel’s occupied Golan visit confirmed it. Nothing has changed with Obama and nothing will.
Interesting headline.
Americans and Canadians (both commercial, English-speaking, nearly parallel legal systems; as different in law as Vermont and New Hampshire).
European Union?
American Southwest and Mexico
Yugoslavia?
USSR?
Palestine (Gaza vs West Bank)
Lebanon?
Not willing to address the fact that Rahm Emmanuel toured occupied Golan Heights? And I’m guessing you’re definitely not going to comment on the theft of land right out from under the residents’ feet by Zionist military occupiers and colonialist settlers.
And to think that in the 1990′s the years of the alleged peace process Israel increased its illegal and immoral settlers population on internationally recognized Palestinian lands illegally occupied since 1967 by 72 percent.
Peace process what a bunch of bullshit
Who isn’t confused by Rahm Emanuel, son of Irgun?
Try as I may I just can’t envisage one of Arafat, Sheikh Yassin or an Islamic Jihad’s offspring as White House Chief of Staff.
The logic of two states for two peoples, is that they are two peoples, not one.
Do you honestly believe that Israelis and Palestinians are one people, beyond the cosmic sense? (in the name of realism).
Did you understand my comment on the imprecision of vacilating between support for “realism” and support for the idea of a single state?
If the goal is to make actual change from the present, that vacilitating delays it.
Witty
Do you still believe in the Jewish people invention? Palestinians are much more Canaanites than Europeans thats for sure. Get used to it. European colonialists don’t have more rights to live in the land of Canaan than the Palestinians (the indigenous people of Palestine). What if you read your Pentateuch.
“Witty
Do you still believe in the Jewish people invention?”
No, I believe in the Jewish people reality. What political planet do you live on to deny those that have clear social identity?
Maybe the same planet you live on where the Palestinians don’t have the “uniquely Jewish” right to self-determination.
Also known as Planet Dershowitz.
“Separate but equal” all over again. Witty’s all-out assault on modern ethics continues.
“Do you honestly believe that Israelis and Palestinians are one people, beyond the cosmic sense? (in the name of realism).”
Now, why do I hear that same question with the names “Jews” and “Germans” substituted? Gimme a minute, it’ll come to….. Got it!
It sounds exactly, almost word for word, like a quote from Mein Kampf!
Maybe I’ll try Googling it…
Without the “cosmic” of course, that’s pure Witty.
Mooser,
Are you Jewish?
If you say that you are, then you identify as a Jew. The question is not racist, its nationalist.
You don’t have to live in Israel, that it is by choice. But, many do choose to live in Jewish state Israel, as a nation.
Why deny that? (Please don’t say “ethnic cleansing” unless you are referring to only the present. The past is literally past.)
What do you value more, Witty? Your Jewish nationality, or your American nationality?
There are bulldozers on the West Bank right now. Why do Zionists have to make themselves out to be the Jewish equivalent of Holocaust deniers? Actually its worse. You guys are like the equivalent of Nazi sympathizers, since this atrocity is ongoing.
I believe in the myth of the “people” as much as I believe in the Thule Society. The fact of the matter is that anyone who rises to power, prominence, and wealth can push whatever they like as history or reality, that is why histories are skewed by the narrative of the winners (in whatever era).
Just like the myths of the Greeks and occultists were merged and later developed by Hitler and became the National Socialist German Workers Party. Well, you believed in their reality, didn’t you RW? Thule-Gesellschaft claims they were from the Aryan race, and they did “great wonders” like their claimed mythic heritage. They also had a lost ancient land mass that was identified as Atlantis in the late 19th century.
The followers of the Thule were interested in racism in the combat of communists and “the Jews.” The Thule also had a moneyed and aristocratic centralized leadership that bought the Munich Observer and even improved its circulation, it later became the chief Nazi paper Peoples Observer.
So I believe in the current Zionist narrative as much as I believe in the Thule Society – zero. I take the “histories” of both like I would a fairy tale. You will note that the parallels are phenomenal and have the same results between the two (Thule and Zionism), so one has to recognize the danger inherent in these mythologies taken by the true believers.
Rahm Emmanuel clearly letting the people of Israel and the Israeli lobby that he is with them and he has the President’s ear.
Andrea Mitchell has always whispered full support for Israel no matter what they do. MSNBC is completely closed down to shedding any light on this critical issue. Not a whisper on Rachel’s, Keith’s, Chris Matthews, Ed, Joe Scarborough about the Goldstone Report. Not a whisper.
Forget touching the International Flotilla. Sure Andrea and the rest hold the doors closed to real reporting on the critically important I/P conflict.
Rahm sending a clear signal. The door will stay closed