Goldstone missed the cut

on 43 Comments

When Israel announced the formation of an independent commission to investigate the Flotilla debacle, Obama spokesman Robert Gibbs issued a statement welcoming the news and noting that

"the structure and terms of reference of Israel’s proposed independent public commission can meet the standard of a prompt, impartial, credible, and transparent investigation."

In the time since then, it has emerged that Amos Horev, one of the three Israeli panel members, helped castrate an Arab in the mid-1940s who had been accused of attempting to rape a Jewish woman. The act of castration inspired a popular song in Hebrew.

It has also emerged (thanks to Richard Silverstein) that another member of the panel, Shabtai Rosenne, helped David Ben-Gurion brainstorm lies which would cover up the Israeli military’s massacre at Qibya, in which Ariel Sharon led a force that murdered 60 Palestinian civilians, an act that outraged the world in 1953.

Richard Goldstone was subjected to the most savage obloquy for his work as a judge under the Apartheid South African regime.

If he had personally castrated a Black South African or helped cook up lies to exculpate the South African government for the Sharpeville massacre, maybe he would have been treated a little more gently?

43 Responses

  1. Shmuel
    June 27, 2010, 11:34 am

    It has also emerged that it is not a “public commission” (va’adat hakirah mamlakhtit, in Hebrew), but an “examination committee” (va’adat bedikah; or “examination forum”, as Ze’ev Segal of Haaretz called it), with no statutory standing or authority. It cannot subpoena witness or documents, and may only address two questions: the legality of the siege on Gaza and consequent commandeering of the flotilla, and the “proportionality” of the force exerted by Israeli forces. Needless to say, any conclusions the “forum” may reach will be entirely non-binding, although I doubt there will be any “unpleasant” conclusions. Netanyahu and his justice minister, Ya’akov Ne’eman, have made sure of that.

  2. Little_Shih_Tzu
    June 27, 2010, 11:40 am

    Let’s see if it does a bette job, a worse job or as good a job as did either the Kahan Commission or the body which produced the Karp Report on Settler Violence.

    BTW, your play on words in the header was the unkindest cut of all! LMAO.

    • Shmuel
      June 27, 2010, 12:28 pm

      LST,

      The Kahan Commission was a “state commission” (members appointed by the Chief Justice, public hearings, findings must be made public and addressed by the government). The Karp Report was produced by a “coordinating team” established by then Attorney General Yitzhak Zamir (Karp was Zamir’s deputy) , following a complaint by professors of law at Israeli universities, regarding inadequate law enforcement in the case of crimes committed by settlers against Palestinians.

      The members of the Tirkel “Commission” were chosen by the government (more specifically Netanyahu and Ne’eman), its mandate and authority are extremely limited, it’s sessions will not be public, and its conclusions may or may not be revealed in whole or in part – at the Prime Minister’s discretion. How can it possibly do a “good job”, and how can it possibly be compared to those other commissions?

      • Little_Shih_Tzu
        June 27, 2010, 12:39 pm

        I was thinking about the skill to be displayed by the Israeli team in this latest blatant whitewash – the rapidity with which the work is gotten underway, the number of coats to be applied, the quality of the whitewsh to be used, the evenness of the brushstrokes, the skill of the labor involved, the doggedness with which the fianl product will be defended, and other similar considerations.

  3. maximalistNarrative
    June 27, 2010, 12:01 pm

    Who will investigate the Turkish involvement?

    Who will investigate the IHH terror ties?

    Why were the IHH allowed to fashion weapons and attempt murder?

    They will pay attention to the following testimony

    My commander was the first soldier that rappelled down from the helicopter to the ship.
    When he touched ground, he got hit in the head with a pole and stabbed in the stomach with a knife.

    When he drew out his secondary weapon-a handgun (his primary weapon was a regular paintball gun: “Tippman 98 custom”) he was shot in the leg. He managed to fire a single shot before he was tossed from the balcony by 4
    Arab activists, to the lower deck (a 12 feet fall). He was then dragged by other activists to a room in the lower deck were he was stripped down by 2 activists. They took off his vest, helmet and shirt, leaving him
    with only his pants and shoes on. When they finished they took a knife and expanded the wound he already had in his stomach. They cut his ab muscles horizontally and by hand spilled his guts out. When they finished they raised him up and walked him on the deck outside. He was conscious the whole time

    • potsherd
      June 27, 2010, 2:41 pm

      Pirates and hijackers should expect to be met with resistance.

    • Citizen
      June 27, 2010, 2:45 pm

      Source please, MN?
      Otherwise, looks like the Turks were horrified by OP Cast Lead (like the World minus Uncle Sam & Uncle Shelly) & they’ve since then taken a fresh look at their former buddies, the Israelis.

      • Sumud
        June 27, 2010, 7:53 pm

        Citizen ~ I’m feeling psychic. I guessed mN’s unattributed quote had appeared in Arutz Sheva (the setter rag) and lo and behold:

        “Firsthand Account From An Israeli Soldier”
        link to israelnationalnews.com

        It was apparently quoted from a group email that circulated after the raid. Very credible!

      • Schwartzman
        June 27, 2010, 10:09 pm

        Arutz Sheva, the Mondoweiss of Pro-Israeli thought.

      • Shingo
        June 27, 2010, 10:18 pm

        “Arutz Sheva, the Mondoweiss of Pro-Israeli thought.”

        So pro Israeli is pro settler? Do they believe God gave them the land, because on Mondoweiss, the Bible is regarded as a work of fiction.

      • thankgodimatheist
        June 27, 2010, 10:31 pm

        “Arutz Sheva, the Mondoweiss of Pro-Israeli thought.”
        ‘Pro Israel’ is hardly enough to describe this loathsome gang. Even the Israeli gov’t refused to grant them a permit to broadcast (They’re a radio first and foremost)..Here:

        Arutz Sheva (Hebrew: ערוץ שבע‎) (Channel Seven) is an Israeli media network identifying with Religious Zionism. It offers online news in English, Hebrew, French and Russian in three formats: written, internet radio, and internet television. The Israeli government has never granted it a license to broadcast, prompting[who?] charges of government discrimination against the Religious Zionist public.
        link to en.wikipedia.org

        Arutz Sheva (Hebrew: ערוץ שבע‎) (Channel Seven) is an Israeli media network identifying with Religious Zionism. It offers online news in English, Hebrew, French and Russian in three formats: written, internet radio, and internet television. The Israeli government has never granted it a license to broadcast,

      • Sumud
        June 27, 2010, 10:36 pm

        Frankly I can’t see Phil & Adam posting viral emails as news.

        Interesting that you would see equivalences though, given that Arutz Sheva is quite a large media organisation with website, internet TV & radio and the 4th most read newspaper in Israel, delivered (free) weekly to 150,000 homes – hmm does that still count when you have to give it away?
        link to en.wikipedia.org

        If Mondoweiss has an equivalent influence, excellent!

      • Sumud
        June 27, 2010, 10:39 pm

        :-) we’re in sync today TGIA

      • Schwartzman
        June 27, 2010, 10:41 pm

        FYI,

        Just for full disclosure, I also can’t stand Arutz Sheva, they are even worse than Debka.

      • Shingo
        June 27, 2010, 11:23 pm

        “Just for full disclosure,  I also can’t stand Arutz Sheva,  they are even worse than Debka.”

        Good for you  Schwartzman,. but if you regard Mondoweiss as the equivalent of Arutz Sheva, why are you wasting your time participating in the discussion?

        Do you participate in the Arutz Sheva comment sections?

      • Sumud
        June 27, 2010, 11:44 pm

        I wondered that also Shingo. It would be sad for Schwartzman if he despised Mondoweiss yet still spent time posting here.

      • thankgodimatheist
        June 27, 2010, 11:49 pm

        Yup..Great minds etc…You know the saying…

      • Sumud
        June 28, 2010, 12:25 am

        CORRECTION:

        “…and the 4th most read newspaper in Israel *and the Occupied Palestinian Territories*, delivered (free) weekly to 150,000 homes”

      • Shmuel
        June 28, 2010, 1:28 am

        Your moderateness is duly noted, Schwartzman. You do know however, that truth is not an average of extremes, right?

      • piotr
        June 28, 2010, 12:51 pm

        I have it on the good authority that so-called “humanitarians” included Captain Hook and his whole crew of pirates, and if the soldier will spilled guts were not promptly rescued, the crocodile that habitually follows Captain Hook would it him.

        Now Hook, pirate that he is, is feted as a hero.

        OTOH, the account of the gut-wrenching gut-spilling horror is puzzling. The commander is attacked and “managed to give one shot” — why did he bother shooting? If you have a paintball gun and you are attacked in earnest, is trying to shoot the best idea that comes to mind?

    • hamdan
      June 27, 2010, 2:48 pm

      They cut his ab muscles horizontally and by hand spilled his guts out.
      Says Tomas : we want to see his wounds !

    • Little_Shih_Tzu
      June 27, 2010, 2:51 pm

      Do you really believe the Hasbara swill you’ve posted here.

      A blockade isa an act of war. The folks on the MM seemed to exercise commonsense and foresight in their decision to be prepared for an Israeli attempt to board the ship. With or without the famed paint ball pellet guns.

      I continue to be amazed that NO Isreali was killed, and somewhere between 9-19 fatalities were infliced upon the MM passengers amd crew.

      Paint ball pellet guns indeed? You are so blinded by your Pavlovian Hasbara-infected responses that you seem to have trouble recognizing departures from common sense, let alone departures from the truth.

      No one except Israel reognizes the IHH as a terrorist group.

      “Fashion weapons and attempt murder’? Yeah, that must account for the zero Israeli fatalities. Oh wait, one Israeli was tosssed overboard and got wet. Horrors! Poor baby! Well, people on ships sometimes get wet.

      I’d trust Turkey to self-investigate more than I’d trust Israel to self-investigate. Turkish authorities have been more more forthcoming than Israeli authorities. i wonder why. Actually, i don’t.

      I know, i know, i know – Israel is so wonderous that people even have to surrender their inherent right to and instinct for self-defense if it somehow interferes with the presumed, if not devine, Israeli right to say and do what it wants, when it wants, and under whatever conditions it prefers, and contrary to the wishes and interests of any and all others.

      Yep – it’s Israel’s world – the rest of us just live here. No doubt we should be grateful for that small favor.

    • demize
      June 27, 2010, 4:40 pm

      Funny that. Rappeling commandos onto a ship on the high sea and they’re met with A) a cool refreshing tropical beverage. B) The ships activity director asking if they will dine Kosher and attend the 3rd. Deck mixer C) A pipe in the fucking cranium?

    • eljay
      June 27, 2010, 5:13 pm

      >> Who will investigate the IHH terror ties?

      IF that particular story is actually true, then it should be dealt with accordingly. As should every other story that is true. Being Israeli/Jewish is not a free pass to break the law.

    • Sumud
      June 27, 2010, 7:40 pm

      mN – It sounds like you’re not happy w/ the scope of the Turkel Commission.

      Will you join me in calling for an independent international commission to investigate the flotilla raid? Will you also join me in calling for Israel to release to such an investigation ALL the activists/journalists stolen memory cards and footage, the CCTV footage from the Mavi Marmara and unedited footage shot by the Israeli Navy? I’d be quite content for any such investigation to do some background investigation into IHH and the Free Gaza Movement.

      What do you say?

      • azythos
        June 27, 2010, 8:21 pm

        Sumud – “I’d be quite content for any such investigation to do some background investigation into IHH and the Free Gaza Movement”

        What do you mean? Anyone, no matter his “background”, has unlimited right to be cruising pacifically in international waters!

        The IHH of the FGM have not committed piracy on the high seas. The only relevant investigation would be one to determine if the IHH boarded the Israeli navy ships instead of the other way around.

      • Sumud
        June 27, 2010, 10:51 pm

        azythos – You may well be right that a look into those organisations is irrelevant, my thinking though was that since the reputation of IHH

        Under Scrutiny, IDF Retracts Claims About Flotilla’s Al Qaeda Links
        link to maxblumenthal.com

        …and Free Gaza Movement has been smeared so badly by various Israeli propagandists, including Israeli Ambassador Michael Oren

        Will The NY Times Ever Retract Michael Oren’s Falsehoods?
        link to maxblumenthal.com

        … that the best way to clear up the matter is to at least look into them. Maybe that’s not necessary. I agree that the focus of an investigation needs to be on the actual flotilla raid.

      • azythos
        June 28, 2010, 1:39 am

        sumud – The point is that no one has any right to smear people without providing proof. Any investigation other than that of the Zionist intervention and the Zionist blockade would have the obvious effect of dispersing attention and sowing doubt.

    • thankgodimatheist
      June 27, 2010, 7:44 pm

      Put a link dummy..Let’s see the source of your lies..Arutz Sheva?

      • Sumud
        June 27, 2010, 7:54 pm

        TGIA ~ Bingo! I thought exactly the same thing. Scroll up for the AS link I just posted.

      • thankgodimatheist
        June 27, 2010, 8:37 pm

        He he. Where else one might say..The religious zionism and settler mouvment mouthpiece!! They are as credible as the Nazis at ‘Massada 2000′. Maximalist who never fails to mention Gush Katif ‘en passant’ is displaying his true colours, a far right religious settler. Tfeeh!

    • Shingo
      June 27, 2010, 9:53 pm

      Seeing as we’re using verbal accounts of those involved…

      “My commander was the first soldier that rappelled down from the helicopter to the ship.”

      After shooting a photographer in the head from the helicopter, the IDF pirate boarded the ship in international waters.
      “When he drew out his secondary weapon-a handgun (his primary weapon was a regular paintball gun: “Tippman 98 custom”) he was shot in the leg.”

      So he withdrew his handgun to shoot a passenger and was disarmed.

      “He managed to fire a single shot before he was tossed from the balcony by 4 Arab activists, to the lower deck (a 12 feet fall).

      How do they know they were Arab and why does it matter?

      “He was then dragged by other activists to a room in the lower deck were he was stripped down by 2 activists.”

      Where is the evidence he was stripped down?  The photographs we have seen show otherwise.

      “They took off his vest, helmet and shirt, leaving him with only his pants and shoes on.”

      If he was stabbed, they surely they would have needed to remove his vest, helmet and shirt to treat him.

      “When they finished they took a knife and expanded the wound he already had in his stomach. They cut his ab muscles horizontally and by hand spilled his guts out.”

      Why haven’t any Israeli doctors confirmed this?

      “When they finished they raised him up and walked him on the deck outside.”

      What happened to his guts if they spilled out?

      “He was conscious the whole time”

      Probably becasue he’d received medical treatment from the passengers.

      Where is the testimony of the commander himself?

  4. Egbert
    June 27, 2010, 12:10 pm

    First there was Kill A Turk, now there is Castrate An Arab. I thought impounding medical oxygen tanks was low, but it seems these people will always go the extra step.

    • Little_Shih_Tzu
      June 27, 2010, 12:42 pm

      Makes you wonder, how popular is Camus’ “The Stranger” with the mass of Israeli readership?

      And what aboutthat oldie from arounf 1989, I thnink it was by The Cult, “Killing An Arab”? [Which supposedly was inspired bt Camus’ work].

      • Egbert
        June 27, 2010, 4:36 pm

        Close, it was on Staring AT The Sea by The Cure in 1986.

        Another song on the album was called Boys Dont Cry – those elite IDF commandos obviously hadn’t listened to the whole album. Unles of course their crying was aimed at getting the sympathy vote.

    • sherbrsi
      June 27, 2010, 6:09 pm

      Razing Muslim cemeteries would also on the top of the lift of the activities of the “light unto the nations.”

  5. Citizen
    June 27, 2010, 12:41 pm

    Here’s more details on the Israeli investigation farce & a tepid suggestion regarding Obama’s handling of same:
    link to commondreams.org

  6. radii
    June 27, 2010, 4:52 pm

    let’s face it, zionism today and israeli society has become one giant mafia – Blood in, blood out

    … the whole society is now oriented toward having all its “chosen” citizens commit some kind of atrocity against another human being that they’ve designated as sub-human (Palestinians, Arabs, Armenians, Christians, liberals, etc etc) … this process of “blooding” their people desensitizes them to the next horrible act they commit and allows the rewiring of their brains to make themselves actually believe that they doing god’s work or doing if for their security of whatever other false justification for such behavior

    zionism is today about blood – inflicting harm on those who get in the way of the land-grab and power-grabs of this hideous and monstrous mafia

  7. eatbees
    June 27, 2010, 5:56 pm

    Well, that’s one out of three then who was apparently involved in neither castration, nor covering up massacres. So I would say it’s a fair panel. Eminently fair!

  8. DICKERSON3870
    June 27, 2010, 5:57 pm

    RE: “Richard Goldstone was subjected to the most savage obloquy…” – Boulos
    FACEBOOK GROUP: Richard J. Goldstone: Integrity Personified
    Category: Common Interest – Beliefs & Causes
    Description: A group for individuals who respect Justice Goldstone and admire his integrity.
    Open: All content is public.
    LINK – link to facebook.com

  9. sherbrsi
    June 27, 2010, 6:11 pm

    The flotilla massacre was an international incident. As such, any legitimate inquire must be predicated on an international investigation with Israeli input, as opposed to an Israeli investigation with international input.

    Nothing less will suffice, no matter how pure or vile we find the participants of this charade.

    • Sumud
      June 27, 2010, 8:05 pm

      There is no international input in even the current “investigation” formulation sherbrsi.

      The two internationals are playing observer roles only, and will be excluded from any parts of the commission related to Israel’s security. One of the internationals, David Trimble, co-founded a group just days before the flotilla raid called “Friends of Israel Initiative”, whose mission is to:

      “seek to counter the attempts to delegitimize the State of Israel and its right to live in peace within safe and defensible borders”.
      link to en.wikipedia.org

      I guess Trimble’s participation in Turkel is part of that.

  10. azythos
    June 27, 2010, 7:16 pm

    Boulos – Your paper –otherwise well-written– is confusing at the very start when you write, with no quotes or other distancing:

    “When Israel announced the formation of an **independent** commission”

    Obviously an Israeli commission is not and cannot be independent, a logical impossibility and the cause of its being totally illegal. Also, its being called “independent” by Obama is sneering, obvious contempt of international law. Obvious to many but not to brains clouded by propaganda.

    Even if the members of that Commission to Justify Piracy were Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, their egregious personal record of banditism and complicity in war crimes is irrelevant.

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