Haaretz is reporting on a new poll conducted by the Israel Project. Among the findings:
One of the questions that the poll presented was "Does the U.S. need to support Israel?" In August of 2009, 63% of Americans polled said that the U.S. does need to support Israel. In June of this year, 58% of respondents shared the same view; by July only 51% of respondents said the U.S. needed to support Israel.
Another question posed by the pole was "Is the Israeli government committed to peace with the Palestinians?" In December of 2007, 66% of respondents said that the government, then led by Ehud Olmert, was committed to peace with the Palestinians. In June of 2009, a month after Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu visited the White House, only 46% of Americans said they believed the Netanyahu government was committed to peace.
Greenburg has analyzed the poll results and says that the section of the American public where Israel is most rapidly losing support is among Liberal Americans who align themselves with the Democratic Party.
The article says the results were shared with "senior Israeli officials, including President Shimon Peres, Deputy Prime Minister Dan Meridor, as well as officials from the Prime Minister's office." Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in that room.
The Hebrew version of the article also includes poll numbers from Europe:
Germany (lowest positive polling since 2008)
· 19% feel “warmth” towards Israel; 50% feel “cold” towards Israel
· 26% feel “warmth” towards Palestinians; 39% feel “cold” towards Palestinians
France (no change in three years)
· 24% feel “warmth” towards Israel; 31% feel “cold” towards Israel
Sweden
· 20% feel “warmth” towards Israel; 49% feel “cold” towards Israel
Hard to know long-term.
It will likely affect politician’s attitudes.
And, hopefully it will affect US and Israeli policies.
Yeah, that’s not sand you’re burying your head in.
“Hard to know long-term.”
No it’s not. This is a trend that will continue. There’s no turning back.
Good news.
Any figures for Britain, Ireland, the Netherlands, Spain, Italy?
OK, it’s just one more poll.
But from TIP! That’s TIP from the 2009 Global Language Dictionary (the Hasbara-talking-points list; but Newsweek doesn’t show it any more), and Frank Luntz (just google the name). Now TIP, there’s some work ahead. I feel “cold towards TIP”.
Adam,
I mentioned this interview on another thread, but you (and Phil) might be interested in Dr. Cook’s revelation starting at about 20 minutes of 500 pages of previously classified material in the Oxford Library filed by the official in the Criminal Division charged with policing the British Mandate during the early 40s. Dr. Cook had to get permission of the rights holder, this Criminal Division official, before the docs could be declassified. This is history no one knows about. You really should listen to this. This flies in the face of everything we thought about what happened before 1948.
Phil is mentioned around 36 minutes (favorably). The classified documents continue at 38 minutes.
link to edwardrynearson.wordpress.com
Very interesting discussion MRW. In fact, I have proposed it a number of times on some of the very points of the discussion, and was met on this site with either silence on the one hand and almost violent disagreement on the other. Glad you discovered the audio.
As an example –
GENOCIDE: SILENCING THE VICTIMS MORALLY AUTHORITATIVE VOICES
I’d like to think that this summer’s sharp drop in those favoring support for Israel was due to its accession to the OECD ‘rich countries club.’ But of course, it was due to Israel’s attack on the Mavi Marmara.
Israel wants to have its cake and eat it too — rubbing shoulders with the developed countries, while still accepting lavish US aid as if it were Haiti (which deserves the help much more than Israel).
Israel on U.S. aid is like a highly-compensated corporate executive on food stamps. It’s shameful; it’s theft; self-respect (if Israelis have any) ought to cause this abusive, unhealthy dependence to stop. We don’t owe Israel a freaking penny.
Maybe the results should be shared with the leadership of the Democratic Party. The Republicans are going to make Israel/Islam a big issue this next election, and you never can win a race to the bottom against that crew.
Well, I hope Jewish neoconservatives can live with the consequences. Because as a matter of Western history, that sort of hatred always gets turned at Jews, sooner or later, and the fact that the Zionist lobby is specifically fanning those flames only makes things worse.
This article reminded me of a nagging question that I have not been able to answer for a while, especially since the Cordova Center hoopla. Perhaps, some people on this site can shed some light.
What is being preached by the rabbis at synagogues in America? I’m aware that there is a wide spectrum but what does a typical orthodox, conservative, reformed synagogue-attending Jewish person here from the rabbis? I don’t have the slightest idea since the two times I have been to synagogues were both for Bar Mitzfah.
There are some serious internal divisions looming within the Democratic Party. What happens when a critical majority of the base, not only voters but party activists, realize that a huge block of the donors providing base financial support for their party won’t support any substantive change in their longstanding policy of unconditional support for Israel?
The Israel Lobby has been highly successful for decades at preventing the rise of national-level politicians who won’t toe their line on Israel by informally vetting junior candidates early in their careers before ‘fast-tracking’ them with campaign contributions and political connections. How will senior leadership squelch calls for reform from below and retain the party’s ‘democratic’ appellation?
Sure, a few people have managed to advance in spite of lack of Lobby support, but they are usually picked off if they get too vocal, e.g. former Representative Paul Findley. President Obama might seem a major exception, but remember that the Israel Lobby is not some monolithic entity. It is a large network (much of it informal) of like-minded individuals and organizations working towards a common goal. IMO Pres. Obama was essentially ‘vetted’ by the Chicago/Illinois Democratic Party establishment, and I have little doubt that many in the DC establishment started passing bricks when they realized that he was actually not just an empty suit in the nomination process there to provide an illusion of competition before the crowning of the previously anointed Hillary Clinton, but a serious candidate who they had not vetted. Remember the speech he gave during the AIPAC conference? I interpreted its take-home message as “I realize that you guys haven’t vetted me, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE vet me now!”
Obama IS an empty suit. Its just that he’s the empty suit that they wanted to win the nomination. Clinton was never the darling of the DC establishment. Obama was. He was always the most mainstream and least liberal of the democratic candidates on domestic issues. He just fooled a lot of ill-infomred liberals who assume he was more liberal just because he was (half) black.
I, for one, wanted and voted for John Edwards in the primary. Even after he dropped out.
Tree, I could have written that more clearly. Time is short so a somewhat rambling response:
I wasn’t referring to the political establishment as a whole. My reference to the DC establishment was to the DC-based portion of the Israel Lobby, as opposed to local operatives working at the city (Chicago), county, and state (Illinois) levels. My reference to Pres. Obama as an empty suit was a suggestion that that is how the DC Israel Lobby, focused at the national level i.e. Congress and the Presidency, viewed him within the context of his viability as a serious contender for the Democratic Party nomination.
Recall all the bellyaching we’ve heard from many Zionists about how President Obama’s ascension has been a disaster for Israel. It really hasn’t because he folded, and in the end did nothing of substance against the wishes of the Lobby. [psychobabble warning] What really inflames their ire against him is that he slipped in through a Democratic Party process that they had been used to routinely filtering. Israel Lobby’s leadership’s panicked fear of loss of control of the informal vetting system that is the fundamental mechanism of their influence is to a large degree projected onto Pres. Obama as an individual.
Perfection in the vetting system isn’t necessary at the Congressional level because campaign contributions can be used to politically damage and destroy anyone who might build enough influence to change the political trajectory of the Congressional herd, but the Israel Lobby does want it to be perfect for at the Presidential level because he is a quorum of one. Obviously he doesn’t operate in vacuum and is influenced by many other factors such as threat of withholding enough base funding from his party to threaten its survival in its present form, but he is a quorum of one.
He can make unilateral decisions against the interests of the Israel Lobby if he chooses to act in spite of pressures arrayed against him. Think Pres. Eisenhower in 1956. A Congressman simply can’t, therefore it’s not necessary to ensure 100% compliance but only a majority large enough so that each feels vulnerable to being cut out of the herd.
One goal should be to reform the internal power structure within Congress and the parties so that a critical mass of Congressional independence is reached so that Congressmen don’t feel politically vulnerable enough to vote against American interests.
Even if these splits do exist, I don’t quite see what mechanisms could lead to a change of point of view among the Democrats. Dem pols say what they have to. No one’s going to step out of line until someone gives them a model.
Obama had overwhelming support from black voters in the Democratic primary (what was it, like 90%?); plus overwhelming support from people who wanted to stop Hillary Clinton (thats me; I sent Obama a contribution as soon as he announced because I could see he was the only chance to stop her and I have always thought she is awful. A warmonger as senator and delusions of royal consort as first lady); plus he had people who thought he was the least likely to be a warmonger.
I think black voters will stick with him but not turn out to vote as much as they did in 2008. The others must be very, very skeptical of Obama now; I know I am.
Also, a lot of the old Zionist bulls like Waxman, Harman, Berman, Spector – who else? – are going to be gone from Congress within the next 10 years. Their replacements won’t be as hard Zionist, IMO.
The Obama Administration has, among other things, created the perception that it has actually fired more African American women than it has hired.
It will be hard to ever forget that disgusting scene. It ended any consideration on my part for Obama as a candidate.
“Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in that room.”
buzz-buzz Fly here, with my report! :
After some jostling around a bit as the men looked over the figures, Peres said, “How is that money gave that schmuck Horowitz working out? You know, for that media campaign on American television…” then the other guy, Meridor, laughed and said, “Oh that, the negative-association words and images are flooding the t.v. there – to hurt Obama. The plan to switch the jewish vote to Republicans by 2012 is well under way.” … then a dog took a crap outside so I had more important business to attend to …
I would say: got to it, keep at it. You’re getting there.
Last year in April, in an occasional visit to the US, I participated in a meeting in San Francisco with the Angry Arab, and the Israeli Consul. It was the first time that I’d heard of an Israeli being shouted down in the US.
How much progress has been made since then, only a year ago.
Today, it’s a question of universities being forced by their financiers not to divest of Israel.
All candidates for the presidency and Congress should be vietted for their position on peace and on justice for Palestine, along with their stance on jobs, Medicare, Social Security, nationalizing banking & finance, increasing taxes on the uber-rich, single payer….the entire progressive agenda. This can be done online, as can fund raising. Alternatively, forget choosing candidates & instead build for a mass uprising in pursuit of a just and peaceful world. What we can’t afford to do any longer, however, is stick to this status quo perpetuating system, what with time running out and permanent war + global warming = doomsday.
This is not “rapid change”, and part of those who feel that “Netanyahu is not committed to peace” think that he should not be.
But the change is there.
I think that in few years growing sectors of the public will notice that, how to put it, “Israel” is seriously insane. More precisely, what passes for common wisdom in Israeli-American elite is seriously deranged.
As in: we should boycott Turkish products BECAUSE (1) we killed 9 Turks and (2) boycotting countries is immoral, counterproductive etc.
Or the other day, George Will was quoting Netanyahu that attacking Iran may be necessary to neutralize BDS movement. It is debatable if one of the two is insane or both, but illogic is quite impeccable.
I mean, even assuming that there is a nuclear weapon program in Iran to be stopped, and that an Israeli attack can stop it, what does it have to do with the efficacy of “delegitimization campaign” that is the most current dread of I-A establishment?
I am “pro-Israel” at heart, so I hope that “they” will notice that something is wrong before it is too late. Israel is not a large semi-autartctic country to survive years of isolation — once American and European support is gone, Israel can follow the Crusader Kingdom “from the pages of history”.
This is a very good point. However, I don’t think that Israeli leadership is unaware of this fact, but rather that they have come to institutionally rely upon near unwavering American support and therefore act as if they had an American level of autarky (which our own policy makers overestimate constantly with routine hubris). They see the United States government as a primary tool for living outside their means. When American support vanishes, they will have to face the reality that they are far too small for their britches and will have to start wearing ones tailored to their actual importance and influence in the world.
One reason I think the Israeli political establishment is myopically incompetent is that they don’t have enough self-discipline and diplomatic finesse to conceal their disdain and and latent hostility to European governments and peoples. When they have to stand on their own, economic and political relations with Europe will be vital for their survival. They would regret their poor manners when Uncle Sugar Sam either isn’t willing or able to intercede on their behalf, except I don’t think they will be self-honest enough to recognize that it is a situation that they would have brought about themselves rather than a global anti-Semitic conspiracy. If there is one thing I don’t see in the Israeli political establishment, it’s wisdom.
Adam, thanks for sharing this. Findings of this sort are what many of us having been working and hoping for. For me, the central finding is that there has been a sharp drop in the belief that Israel truly seeks peace. The percentage of the samples that believe this dropped from 66 to 46% (as of this past June) over roughly 2 and a half years. The logical followup question: “If Israel isn’t seeking peace, what IS it seeking?” Truthful answers to that question could rapidly lead to further and even more serious unwinding of support for Israel and its current policies among the American people, and even perhaps lead to reductions in US aid.
The Israeli government is aware that the support of the American people is dwindling rapidly. They are afraid–very afraid!
>There are some serious internal divisions looming within the Democratic >Party. What happens when a critical majority of the base, not only voters
>but party activists, realize …
What happens? Approximately the same thing that happened when Obama funneled trillions to Wall Street, supported immunity for the telecoms for illegal wiretapping, gave up on closing Guantanamo, surged into Afghanistan, abandoned single-payer healthcare and even the (lame) public option, etc. – in short, nothing at all, except that some of the activists stay home and the Republicans gain ground.
Washington is occupied territory, and the occupiers aren’t going to give up because of a poll.
Zionists thrive on hatred, so I’d say this is excellent news for them.
They can play that sodding victim violin now, no problemo!
But the thing is, 51% of America has now acquired the life-saving earplugs we’ve been trying to hand out here on Mondo and other places too.
Congress is next.
Well one lives in hope, don’t one :-)
I don’t put any faith in 99% of polls particularly those commissioned or done by an agenda group.
I do however respect the World Public Opinion Poll done by the Univ of Maryland supported by the Kennedy Fund,it’ widely regarded as the most accurate and respectable polling entity.
Their poll done even before Gaza showed an entirely different story in the US public than what we see presented all the time by suspect groups.
The most outstanding thing in their polling was the fact that 70% OF AMERICANS SAID THEY WANTED THE US TO BE “EVENHANDED” IN THE ISRAEL PALESTINE CONFLICT. Another finding was Americans thought neither the Palestine nor Israel had done enough to bring about peace.
You can see the entire poll ‘including the questions asked’ at this link.
link to worldpublicopinion.org
What this tells me….is that despite the slanted US news on I/P or maybe because it is so slanted it raised the public’s “suspicions” after a while, the truth has seeped thru to enough people for them to see something wrong in the US support of Israel.
IMAGINE…if all Americans knew the entire and true story about Israel, Palestine and the US. Including ‘why’ congress supports Israel in it’s aggressive and criminal deeds.
It would be so, so over.
All this really means is that Israel and its supporters/donors are going to order up a Republican President in 2012. They don’t give a damn about Democrat or Republican. It’s who will bow the lowest to Israel. I’ll bet you this was what was behind the NYC mosque…a dry run. Pamela Geller is behind it all — she started it, she fueled it, google it — and she is NYC Zio-Queen Supreme.
I read in today’s Washington Post, The pens of anti-Muslim conservatives impact N.Y.C. mosque debate mightily, that Geller is a former New York Observer publisher:
Does Phil know her? Can he tell us about her?
By the way, I read on the Web that when Geller appeared in the bikini was in Israel during the 2006 war: Meet Bikini Blogger Pamela Geller. She Is Like Ann Coulter Meets The Real Housewives. She Is Amazing.:
The person who should get credit for foreseeing the split in American Zionism is Norman Finkelstein, whose most recent piece is a chapter in the recent book Midnight on the Mavi Marmara, in which he documents the decline in US support for Israel. Among public intellectuals, Israel’s supporters are nearly all Jews, especially those now in their 70′s and older. Israel’s critics are diverse, including Arab-Americans and a significant number of Jews, especially younger Jews. Read the whole piece, it’s valuable.
This will be handled by Israel as any PR project would, by putting a different face on it.
Specifically, the Netanyahu/Libermann crowd will ultimately be replaced by someone who is touted in the American media as a “liberal, dovish” Israel politician, unlike the backwoods, racist Likudniks presently in power. Much more palatable to the American public, but with the same old racist policies beneath the shine.
Let’s hear more from Eden Abergil if we want to reduce support for Israel.
“I can’t allow that Arab lovers ruin the perfect life I lead,” she allegedly wrote. “I am not sorry and I don’t regret it.” link to haaretz.com
She is perfectly willing to kill, “even slaughter” Arabs to protect her spot at the side of the swimming pool. This is the face of Israel: shallow, selfish and brutal.
Another poll:
link to imra.org.il