Zahi Khouri is a big businessman in the West Bank who owns a business in southern Florida. He has a pro-two-state piece in the Orlando Sentinel, and says what everyone else does, Obama would have to overcome the force of the lobby in order to apply pressure to Netanyahu to end the occupation and allow the creation of a viable Palestinian state. Khouri's piece is filled with optimism. He dreams of Palestinian children again getting to bathe in the Mediterranean, he dreams of a truth and reconciliation commission to address the refugees of '48.... Below you'll see an excerpt of Khouri's piece, then see the first comment at the Sentinel site, from last night (and yes, it seems like a Jewish author): wipe out the Arabs.
Khouri:
I am an optimist because the Palestinian cause is like many successfully waged freedom struggles once deemed hopeless. I have seen Jim Crow segregation defeated in the American South, the Berlin Wall come down and apartheid dismantled in South Africa. I expect to see Israel's occupation and discriminatory dual system of law vanquished in my lifetime.
President Obama's leadership can help the U.S. establish a more secure region, though Israeli-Palestinian peace will not fix all the region's problems. Twenty-one years ago, I thought peace would do far more. Unfortunately, the American wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the enormous danger of an Israeli-instigated confrontation with Iran mean that Israeli-Palestinian peace will go less far than two decades ago.
With peace, trade opportunities for Israel and Palestine would boom throughout the region. The fulfillment of international law in a peace deal would end the burgeoning South Africa-like campaign of boycott, divestment, and sanctions currently faced by Israel. And tourism would surely grow dramatically following a peace deal.
Now here is commenter MarkSolomon at 11:29 PM September 01, 2010
This smack-down of Israel is so divorced from reality as to relegate it to high comedy, if not for the identity of the libeler. The Israeli government, against the better judgment of its religious citizens as well as the majority of the diaspora, has bent over backwards, time and time again, to comply with Palestinian requests in the (unrealisitic) hopes of achieving peace with its neighbors. Despite the daily bombardment by Palestinians of civilian homes, Israel held back its fist at the request of PLO leaders who said that the problem of the "renegades" should be left with them to deal with. Of course, nothing was done. Israel withdrew from large swaths of militarily significant land areas upon the (empty) promises of peace, only to have to recapture the territory because peace was not forthcoming. Millions of dollars (bribe money?!) has been paid to the PLO from the United States and the European Union only to disappear into the Swiss bank accounts of PLO heirarchy/thieves. The only way to achieve peace with "peaceful" Muslims is to completely destroy them in battle.
It’s always ironic to see propagandists like that commenter accuse a Palestinian of being detached from reality, all the while that poster types nothing but lies. What’s worse is that he or she believe that the “judgment of the diaspora” is relevant to how Israel conducts itself. That tells me he’s an American Zionist Jew.
I have more respect for a native born racist Israeli Jew than I do for a shmuck from Florida or some other US state who firmly believes that he is entitled to land in Israel by virtue of being born a Jew. That sort of exclusivity, supremacy and sheer chutzpah gets my blood boiling. I cannot tolerate it. It disgusts me. At the very least, someone from Tel-Aviv whose grandparents lived in the area since the 19th century has a case. But, these scum who consider themselves to be the diaspora — as though they have any connection to the land by virtue of their ancestors living there some 2000 years ago — have no leg to stand on.
I have zero tolerance for such bigoted hypocrites.
… as though they have any connection to the land by virtue of their ancestors living there some 2000 years ago
… as you probably know that too is not even true according to Shlomo Sand ..
only for a portion of ‘they’. sands doesn’t claim there were no jews in the holy land centuries ago he just disputes all of todays jews descended from them. it’s irrelevant anyway, deciding national rights should have nothing to do w/what the world looked like in some century BC. stupid.
only for a portion of ‘they’ … I know, I read the book, I (and I understand Avi too) was referring to the diaspora …
“Jewish AND democratic,” huh.
>> The only way to achieve peace with “peaceful” Muslims is to completely destroy them in battle.
Yet another obelisk to circumvent in the river of oppression through which the Palestinians must sail their rafts…
Avi, are we to fuss over the one and only guy called Solomon saying stupid things about what Jews should do to the Palestinians when we know his genocidal views are not representative of those of the majority of American Jews? I don’t think so. Only 6 people commented on the article with you being one of them trying to straighten Solomon out. The real issue is whether or not the 2-state solution that Khouri talks about is dead. I feel the same as you about Jews born in Israel in comparison to those in the diaspora; some of them have just as much right to being there as some Palestinians, if not more, especially Arab Jews that have a right to most of the Middle East since they too were part of the whole area before it was politically carved up.
Walid, a recent poll said 71% of Palestinians don’t want to abandon the 2ss. Maybe they have a better sense of the prospects of democracy in a binational state.
potsherd, most probably Palestinians feel that way because they see themselves dreaming of still holding on to less than 20% of what they had and they see this number shrinking by the day. I feel the end result will be Israel offering them something like 10 to 12% in bantustan-like areas, even less of their own water than what they are now getting and a restriction on their new state of letting in any refugees from the camps of Lebanon and Syria or even Gaza with exception to the Israeli-Palestinians that Israel would be evicting once Abbas consents on their behalf that Israel shall be recognized as a Jewish state and all kinds of other concessions that the unelected Abbas is not authorized to make.
We have to keep in mind the basic demands that Netanyahu said he would never budge from and he has already stated one of them in his opening speech yesterday; that Palestinians recognize Israel as a Jewish state and this is intended for no other reason than to pull a fast number on the over million Palestinian-Israelis, that there will be no blanket right of return, that Israel will maintain sovereignty over Palestinian land, air and water and that the main settlements aren’t going anywhere which along with the negating of the RoR has already been enshrined in a “non-binding” US Congressional Resolution. So what’s left to negotiate? The 71% you mentioned would drop drastically if Palestinians knew what’s in store for them. In the opening speeches of yesterday, I didn’t hear a word from anyone about the right of return for the million or so stateless refugees; their fate has been left in the incapable hands of Abbas.
Walid, it seems to me that, more than anyone else, the Palestinians do know what would be in store for them under a 2ss. Who could know better? Who could have fewer delusions?
Well said. I’d also guess the second “state” in the agreement would eventually become Jordan when even the bantustans become too much of a concession for the settlers and too much of a hellhole for the Palestinians.
Walid, I actually agree with you and that’s why I didn’t bother with Solomon. His/her post manages to discredit himself/herself on his own, what with talk of genocide and such.
My response was to “Angelo” who found it convenient to propagate the age old canard regarding Barak’s “generous” offer in 2000. It falls in line with the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity canard.
Aren’t they supposed to equip the rafts with better wheels or something?
>> Aren’t they supposed to equip the rafts with better wheels or something?
LOL! :-D
That’s it for me, no need to waste any more time & energy looking into the matter, because just today genocide’s been added to their official to-do list, compliments of mainstreet media. And not to worry if the narrative shifts from predominately what they want us to believe, to the way it really is, plus, at long last, glimpses of what the Mideast could (would, should, will) be like, once Jewish occupier and occupied Palestinian agree to sit down together for the purpose of working things out based on one equals one with liberty and justice for all. Not to worry that the above prediction might only be a dream, since, if it were, this comment would amount to nothing more than one more person trying to pass off his or her personal dream as real & attainanable, which would be both misleading & wrong. Instead what’s posted here has been woven out of the experiences and observations of a lifetime, here in the land of the free, home of the brave (or so we’re told), as well as in West Beirut ’82, occupied Palestine, West Bank & Gaza (First Intifada) and Baghdad in the nineties, among other hot spots such as Cuba, pre & post-revolution. Which gets us back to the get together that’s to take place between supposedly mortal enemies; one, the Jewish settler, the other, the indigenous Palestinian. First thing that’ll happen, once the agreement’s been signed is that said agreement will be put to the people for their approval, in a vote that’ll be based, once again, on the one equals one, nobody left out. Then, after this Constitution is approved overwhelmingly by the people, surely a constitutional convention (online?) has to be the first item on the popular agenda. And what a magnificent Constitution is going to come out of that convention! More forward looking even than South Africa’s, today’s gold standard for determining a nation’s success in establishing a constitution that not only guarantees its citizens life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, but which, in order to deliver on said promises, provides generously for the common good, and how’s that for a starter?
Yourstruly, your proposal sounds a lot like another I had read somewhere a couple of years back in both substance and form; it was in a discussion with someone on what the Palestinians should do and it went something like this:
“… So, we need to get more sophisticated. Here is my suggestion (to add to yours):
The Palestinians declare themselves members of a long-forgotten Jewish sect descended directly from the once lost, but now miraculously found, tribes. Call themselves Jewmusq, for example (Walid liked that name, But I’m open to suggestions). Great DNA research will conclusively establish ethnic linkage – probably far and beyond what the great immigrants from the Soviet Union and other countries can claim.
Some good reform – or reconstructionist – rabbis from the US, will perform mass conversions of the Palestinians, basically adding Passover, Tisha be’av, Yom Kippur, and Purim to the list of official holidays (without eliminating any on the ones already on the Muslim calendar) and reaffirming prohibitions on pork consumption. Since both the Qu’ran and the New Testament spring off the Jewish Tanach anyways, I see no problem stocking the library shelves with a few more thousand copies of the Old Testament (though maybe the ones for children will have to revise some drawings). Given the cursory study of the Talmud in Israel’s secular schools, there should be little problem adapting the same curriculum in the Arabic schools in the West Bank (OK, I’d again suggest the reconstructionist interpretation – very deep….very new age).
Great religious scholars will be invited to combine halachic and sharia teachings, which should help tourism in the entire ME too, while directing the minds of the multitudes of all sides to spiritual musings – thus taking attention off our – now turned dysfunctional – primary in the US.
Most importantly – the legal system will be revamped – Palestine will declare itself officially under Israeli law and the PA will start a crash legal education program for all Palestinians – young, old and in the middle. Forget that Jordainian system – too last century. Then it’ll be time to recast the whole conflict as a civil rights struggle. I know, of course, a few good Jewish (and non-jewish) lawyers from the US who’ll be glad to help – they know all about those Jim Crow days and how to avoid that trap.
Oh yes, there is that little problem with Hamas but that’s OK – maybe we send someone to negotiate on their behalf with the Jews. I imagine it’ll all work out after a couple of weeks of training to teach the slackers how to answer him point-by-point in intensive teach-ins.
Follow this program and you’ll have a perfect resolution in no time (say – two years?).
Now why, pray do tell, is my solution any less realistic than anyone else’s?
PS people should really look into these reconstructionist movements. Kind of interesting. I think maybe it’s the future….”
Great ideas. like desert flowers springing up after a thundershower, may there be a profusion of literature and art on your and related themes. It’ll help to shift the prevailing narrative from “good” Jewish Israeli vs “nasty” Palestinian to what sort of Mideast were it up to all its people, not just a rich & powerful few.
“The Israeli government, against the better judgment of its religious citizens”
We all need to calm down…A religious freak..most likely (certainly) a settler..
Why is this news?
This supports the view, Better that they separate into two rooms.
Because, as every American worth their salt knows, back when we were confronted with the issue of segregation and civil rights in the United States, we found it necessary for whites and blacks to “separate into two rooms.”
And now that whites have their own country, and blacks have their own country, we’re all so much happier now! Aren’t we, Witty?
Seriously.
>> This supports the view, Better that they separate into two rooms.
To separate them into “two rooms” implies cleansing all the Palestinians / Arabs / Muslims out of a “pure” Jewish homeland and all the non-Palestinians out of a “pure” Palestine. Is this really how justice, democracy and humanism work in your world? Interesting.
Of course, if you’re not actually suggesting total ethnic cleansing, then your “solution” doesn’t address MarkSolomon’s assertion that “The only way to achieve peace with ‘peaceful’ Muslims is to completely destroy them in battle.”
RE: “…then see the first comment at the [Orlando] Sentinel site, from last night: wipe out the Arabs.” – Weiss
MY COMMENT: Forget it, Jake. It’s Orlando (G-d’s country / Fundie territory).
“Israel has bent over backwards” that is ironic since that is exactly what The Shabak does to Palestinian detainees.
“Israel withdrew from large swaths of militarily significant land areas upon the (empty) promises of peace, only to have to recapture the territory because peace was not forthcoming.”
Funny how they never bother to explain how building illegal settlements on large swaths of land areas is supposed to improve security.
The current comments are dated September 2 and do not include the Solomon comment, which of course, is the usual prepackage of outright hasbara lies.
i was just there and saw it, you have to hit the ‘read all comments ‘ link.
Did anyone catch the letters to the editor in the Times the other day? The two letters they chose to print about the Qassam Brigades attack were tragically hilarious. The first began, “I am a proud former resident of Brooklyn who moved to Israel three years ago with my family…” signed by someone in Neve Daniel, West Bank. The second read in part “Settlements are an issue that must be addressed in the peace negotiations, but doesn’t this incident underscore that Hamas must cease its unprovoked violence if we are to have any hope of regional peace?”
Does someone there have a bitter sense of humor or what?
hamas’s violence is always unprovoked and israel only responds.
Digging through comment sections? Really Phil? I mean, really?
Should I dig through your comments sections and pull out all of the ones denying the Holocaust, for starters?
Don’t bother. Fiction writing is not your strong suit.
poor, poor hophmi. always a day late and a dollar short. phil has consistently edited anti-semitic commentary even before the recently instituted comments policy. and many anti-zionist commenters here have consistently challenged the anti-semites. the comment in question is relevant because it exemplifies an integral strain of zionist thought. it’s the other side of the supremacist coin: we’re chosen; they suck.
Find ONE
Say something positive for a change. All you do is denigrate what Phil and Adam are doing here. Create you own site and see how much effort it requires to edit every comment, as you’re such a whiner… I may even say I appreciate Witty’s hollow commentary of ‘live and let live’ over your peevishness.
I call ‘em as I see ‘em, and most people here are a lot better at denigrating than I am.
Publishing the comments of one guy on an op-ed piece and acting as if this is widely spread view in my community (which is the point of Phil writing a blog post on it) is intellectually dishonest and serves no purpose.
And so where does making up fake accusations of Holocaust denial fall on your spectrum of intellectual dishonesty?
Well I see a recurring pattern of your swiping technique. I thought your initial critiques were actually better . And yes, better than Witty any day of the year, but now I’m not sure.
Your comments aren’t helping to advance a discussion about the current problems that Israelis and Palestinians confront, and you’ve been completely negative in giving beneficial analysis. Your comments only seek to find fault in what Phil or Adam post. It’s why I said swiping and not contributing.
I haven’t seen any in awhile, but there used to be an occasional comment which sounded like Holocaust denial to me. It was pretty rare. It’s to be expected that a site that criticizes Israel would also attract the occasional creep of the Holocaust-denying sort. Phil obviously doesn’t want them around.
Funny, hophmi, how those same views that aren’t widely spread in your community keep being constantly repeated in a wide variety of venues.
Should I dig through your comments sections and pull out all of the ones denying the Holocaust
totally dude. start a blog called mondo redux and spend all your time there. i’m sure it will be much appreciated by the hasbara department at israel’s foreign ministry. start now, bye.
This is the kind of stuff I was confronted with constantly during my undergrad. It’s hard to respond to such lunacy and generalizations without any facts when you’re a fact providing normal person. I’m starting to think formulating stereotypical one-liners about Israel in return is the only way to deal with such people. Logic doesn’t work with the brainwashed.
I often like to say Israel is a replay of Tsarist Russia with Jews as Cossacks. And the Chief Rabbi of Vienna circa 1897, Moritz Gudemann, did believe Zionism would lead to exactly that. In my experience though, someone like this Mark Solomon would be scared shitless of Jews and Arabs living without segregation.
Wow…while the comment itself is quite stunning I’m even more surprised that Netanyahu’s father is so adept at using the internet at his age. I’d SO follow him on Twitter.
Comments advocating ethnic cleansing of Palestinians seem to be pretty common among people responding to anything even remotely pro-Palestinian in major news outlets. Of course, they can also be found in opinion pieces themselves. I don’t like to report comments, but sometimes I do.
I think it would be great to unbrainwash the general public, those who already advocate mass expulsion are probably unreachable but maybe others aren’t
I’m also curious why language like MarkSolomon’s sounds reasonable to some people.