This is the second post we've had from "Wondering Jew," which Weiss sought as a counter to the main thrust of this site. Weiss quizzed WJ about his use of the term Arab/Palestinian, and he explained, "The fact is when I see Palestinians, the word that comes to mind is not Palestinian, but Arab, which is much shorter than Palestinian, but also accurate. Palestinian refers to their nationality or (less charitably) their national aspiration; Arab refers to their language and wider loyalty as in the Arab League."
Due to the circumstance of price and availability I rent an apartment near the Malcha Mall in Jerusalem. Although there are stores nearer my apartment than the Mega Store in the mall, the selection available in the Mega Store is wider and I find myself going there at least twice a week.
My initial reaction on my first visits to the mall was "Look! An Israeli mall! Great!" I moved to Jerusalem from Brooklyn and although Brooklyn is not the natural habitat for malls compared to say New Jersey, I lived not far from Kings Plaza and thus I was quite familiar with the mall phenomenon. There was nothing special about the Malcha Mall per se, the mere fact of it was its significance. Although most writers, commentators and I assume readers of this blog view Israel through the lens of the Palestinian population that was not allowed to return after the war of '48, that is not my perspective. My natural reaction is to marvel at the mere fact of a Jewish country with Jewish people and Jewish children speaking a Jewish language and thus the mere existence of a mall in Jerusalem rather than on Flatbush Avenue was in itself significant..
Although the mall itself (I'm quite sure) is built on pre 67 Israel, it is near Arab/Palestinian neighborhoods captured in '67 and thus the mall attracts a 20 to 30% Arab/Palestinian clientele. (This is my own unscientific approximation. The manager of the mall in a recent newspaper article gave a much lower approximation in the single digits, but I believe that he lied in order to avoid scaring away Jewish patrons.)
Now my reaction to the mall is "Look! A mall where Arabs and Jews shop side by side! Great!"
The mingling of populations is a positive within itself. Last night waiting on the checkout line at the Mega Store my Arabic was insufficient to determine what the Arab/Palestinian people behind me were saying, but the combination of their body language and tone indicated that they were wondering whether the items they had chosen (including expensive "Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream") could be covered by the amount they intended to spend. With them was their 8 year old daughter and she looked at me questioningly and I smiled tentatively in her direction. "Are you the Israeli monster that I must fear?" her eyes seemed to ask. "No, just another human being waiting on a checkout line at the crowded Mega Store," I tried to communicate.
My fledgling Arabic is sufficient to understand when a middle aged woman asks me "How much?" ('adesh?) regarding apples. But I am too shy and so point at the sign rather than attempting to speak. It is too expensive for her, so despite her appreciation for my sign language communication she walks away from the overpriced apples. When a mother refuses to buy her child candy at the check out counter I understand when he whines "Why?" (Laish?) But when a twenty something female waits for the last moment to buy some cigarettes, the check out clerk is annoyed by the fact that she had not requested them earlier. She explains in Hebrew, "I don't want my mother" (who was with her before, but is now headed towards the exit) "to know that I smoke."
Other interesting aspects in the mall outside the store: A twenty something son, trying to assure his fifty something mother of the safety of using the escalator, as she steps on to it gingerly for the first time. The excitement of the kids as they sit by the fountain or play on the miniature train locomotive. And of course the covered hair of the Arab/Palestinian woman juxtaposed to the covered hair of the Orthodox Jewish woman: each with its own distinct style, but both to the same purpose.
There are less positive aspects as well: For the most part the Arabs and the Jews do not mingle. Groups or families in malls are usually self contained and maybe this lack of mingling stands out only because I am watching for it, but the lack strikes my eye. When Arab/Palestinian male youths walk in groups and talk loudly and proudly as youths tend to do, it induces nervousness. When workers in the produce section joke with each other loudly in Arabic it induces nervousness. When a new Palestinian/Arab female checkout clerk with a head covering was hired at the Office Depot franchise she smiled appreciatively when I chose to be checked out on her short line rather than wait for the Jewish checkout clerk whose line was much longer.
Are there political implications to this sociological phenomenon? I don't know. The Hamas leaders who would threaten to rule a theoretical one state are not represented by the non ideological patrons of the mall. Neither are the ideologically driven teams of Kassam rocket launchers who might attempt to disturb airplane traffic from Ben Gurion airport in the theoretical two state solution. It would probably be naive to throw away very real fears based upon slender hope. But that is what it is: hope.
link to palestineremembered.com
Oh dear. While I like this piece I do find myself irked by your default to the term “Arab” rather than Palestinian. It is as absurd as calling all the world’s native English speakers “English”. It just isn’t on, WJ!
Bumblebye- In seeking to improve my fledgling Arabic I have taken to watching Arabic language television on an Israeli station, the interviewees quite often use the phrase Arab, as in “the Arab street” or the “Arab sector”. A spot from international CNN had a filmmaker refer to Arab films. Years ago Gamal Nasser was the head of the pan Arab movement. The lines drawn by the French and British in the aftermath of WWI are claimed to be artificial and the reality of a large Arabic homeland is claimed. By mentioning Palestinian once or twice I feel that I have paid sufficient respect/obeisance to the Palestinian national movement and can then relax and use the more natural “Arab”, much as I might use the phrase African-Americans once in an article and from then on use the phrase “blacks”.
I agree with WJ on this point. As far as I have seen, “Arab” is the term the Palestinians of Israel tend to use to describe themselves. And if “Palestinian” is intended to mean “citizens of the Palestinian state” there is a constant risk of confusion between this usage and the other.
On WJ’s description, I find it totally familiar. The exact dyamics can be seen in many US locations where black and white populations mingle under similar conditions.
What WJ did not seem to notice, however, was nervousness among the Arab shoppers, only the Jews.
“reality of a large Arabic homeland”
Possibly leaving in its wake a psychological sense of belonging, such as may be the case if the contiguous United States were broken up after 1000 years or so? “A” is a New Yorker, “B” is Alabaman, both are American? Yet if both had strong local accents, neither may understand the other?!
The Palestinian citizens of Israel do not have a TV channel of their own, so the terminology is controlled by the Jewish majority on Jewish owned stations. Channel 1 is run by a government agency.
How many times do I have to go over the fact that the Israeli government officially seeks to divide and control by calling the Palestinian citizens of Israel “Arabs”? Why are you being intentionally dishonest and deceptive by using a vague description such as “Israeli station”? Are you ignorant of the facts?
And I see that potsherd has chimed in with something he knows nothing about, despite my previous explanations which clearly went over his head. Nice.
And finally, Phil, WTF? You fell for the “balance” shtick that many a Zionist hasbaratist peddles over and over. The balance that which you seek can be found in the mainstream media. The propaganda in the mainstream media balances this website. There’s no need for Wondering’s garbage on this website.
What the hell is going on here?
Avi, your previously explanations failed to convince me. This does not mean they went over my head, it means you did not present sufficient evidence to counter my observation.
Nice melt down Avi.
I am not sure where you got the idea that you are the one source encyclopedia for every thing I/P but you are not. When someone disagrees with you, it is foolish to go on a tirade against them.
And God-forbid Phil allows someone to post something which doesn’t adhere to your hate-Israel agenda. WJ is living in Israel and has a clear perspective of what is happening. No one is quite sure where you live, but we know it isn’t Israel, allow someone else to talk about how they see things.
Why did it fail to convince you?
“I am not sure where you got the idea that you are the one source encyclopedia for every thing I/P but you are not. When someone disagrees with you, it is foolish to go on a tirade against them.”
What a nice and typical substance free response from you WJ!
“And God-forbid Phil allows someone to post something which doesn’t adhere to your hate-Israel agenda.”
It not your agenda that’s offensive WJ, it’s the laziness and shallowness of your comments.
“No one is quite sure where you live, but we know it isn’t Israel, allow someone else to talk about how they see things.”
You’ve been allowed to do that WJ, and now we’re allowed to deconstruct your diatribe.
Shwartzman/yonira,
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, for an empty shell, you sure make a lot of noise.
OK. Let’s see if this will convince you, sufficiently.
Professor Sammy Smooha of Haif University published a survey which he conducts every four years.
The survey is entitled: “Index of Arab-Jewish Relations in Israel”
The 2004 and 2008 version are available online. Ha’aretz quoted the 2004 version in 2004. I wasn’t able to access the 2008 version.
Thus, in 2002,
So, following that trend, current percentages should be much higher, especially given the escalation in rhetoric and discriminatory policies coming out of the Knesset.
link to haaretz.com
Is that good enough, or do I have to go rummage through stacks of books to convince you of something for which you refuse to take my word?
Correction
The above should have read: “Thus, in 2004, [...]” followed by the blockquote.
Just what is this supposed to convince me of, Avi? The title of Smooha’s report is “Arab-Jewish Relations.” He refers to the population as “Arabs” several dozen times, not “Palestinians.” And he quotes Ahmed Tibi, the Arab MK, as he calls himself, referring to his constituents as “the Arabs,” not “the Palestinians.”
In short, Smooha’s report totally confirms my own observations on this matter.
It’s anyone’s guess why you refuse to accept the simple fact that language plays a major role in identity politics as it has been used by Israel to divide and control. Here the term “Israeli Arabs” seeks to isolate them from the rest of Palestinians in the occupied territories and in the diaspora. The fact that you refuse to accept the results of the survey is troubling. If someone feels “closer”, then that is a reflection of the person’s identity, the way he/she defines himself. So, where’s the disconnect? Why do you refuse to accept that simple fact?
Anyway, in the end, it’s no skin off my nose. Stick to whatever floats your boat.
Potsherd
The Zionist preference for “Arabs” is a linguistic manipulation meant to suggest consciously or unconsciously that Arabs belong in (and came from) Arabia and are not indigenous to Palestine, they’re intruders/squatters/trespassers. Calling them Palestinians leaves no room for such a manipulative maneuver..When a Palestinian calls himself Arab he has no such a wicked idea in mind..
I’ve stopped using the term Israeli arab. It reminds me too much of those Joan Peters-types who claim Palestinians don’t exist. Also the prevalent narrative in Israel’s early years of “little Israel” versus the great unwashed “Arab nation”. Abba Eban’s 1958 interview on the Mike Wallace show is the perfect demonstration of this. He tries to take the high moral ground on the issue of 1948/49 refugee by criticising Israel’s neighbours for keeping the refugees in camps. This narrative can only function by denying Palestinians nationalist aspirations; they aren’t Palestinian, they’re arabs, and should therefore be happy living on “kindred soil”. He justifies Israel territorial expansion in 1948/49 from 55% to 78% in the same way, nobody should criticise Israel because “the arabs” have so much more land. That Palestinians land and property was stolen en masse is swept under the carpet.
It’s even longer than Israeli arab but I prefer to use Palestinian Israeli.
I don’t think wondering jew’s use of the term “arab” is intentionally malicious but naming is a political act, and in a nation intent on marginalising, even expelling up to 20% of it’s population, an Israeli jew using the term “arab” does carry political overtones.
wondering jew ~ I think your African American analogy is a little off. I don’t think any African American would be happy to referred to as just “African” (at least by a non-African American), and that’s what I see as the equivalent of the term “arab” as you use it. In the jewish state of Israel, by definition “arab” is “other”.
I concur with you Avi on Israel’s divide-and-conquer strategy. I don’t mind Adam and Phil posting articles by wondering jew. It’s no good if Mondoweiss just preaches to the converted. Think of it as an opportunity to present a rational argument to the contrary.
I’m perfectly aware of Israeli distortions of language, and I have no quarrel at all with the results of Smooha’s survey. I’m also aware of Zionist lies that conflate the Palestinians with Bedouins and claim the “Arabs” only arrived in the area in the last century. And in fact I believe it’s clear that the indigenous population of Palestine is not primarily Arab at all but descends from the Canaanite/Judean population.
None of this changes the fact that Arabs in Israel have long ago adopted this identity and tend to refer to themselves today as “Arabs.” And I think it’s presumptuous when individuals who are not part of a people go around lecturing that people on what they must call themselves in order to be politically correct.
So it’s OK for them to call themselves niggers but not for the rest of us?
Don’t you see what that position does? It agrees that “Arab” means nothing more than “nigger.”
Stop right there potsherd.
I never told anybody how they should represent themselves, I described a decision I had made about how I wanted to describe Palestinians with Israeli citizenship, and I described why. I’ll expand on that.
I think that within Israel/Palestine the generic terms jew and arab is still used. Especially, I hear older generation using these terms, and that was the pre-1947 terminology. But since then Israel the state has come into existence and Palestinian nationalism has grown.
I’m outside Israel and Palestine and will therefore use more descriptive terms. I won’t use “jews” to refer to Israelis (even though that is common within I/P), because in my context it conflates jews with Israelis, and to risks sounding anti-semitic. In the same vein, in my contect to use the term arab would not be a helpful way to refer to Palestinians since there are 300 million arabs in 20+ different nations. I’ve already explained why I think “Israeli arab” has political overtones, so Palestinian Israeli will do for me. It’s not ambiguous, and to date I’ve never been advised it’s offensive. I’m telling anybody that’s how they need to describe themselves.
On the wiki page for Arab citizens of Israel I found this:
Terms used to refer to Arab citizens of Israel in the Arab media or Arabic cultural lexicon are “the Arabs of ’48″, “the Palestinians of ’48″,[11] or “the Arabs within” (عرب الداخل). These Arabic terms are not applied to the East Jerusalem Arab population or the Druze in the Golan Heights, since these territories were occupied by Israel in 1967. The majority of Israel’s Arab citizens identify as Palestinian by nationality and Israeli by citizenship, generally identifying themselves as “Palestinian citizens of Israel” or “Palestinian Arab citizens of Israel.”[3][4]
“Arab citizens of Israel”, “Arabs of Israel”, “Arab Israelis”, “Israeli Arabs”, “Minorities”, “Arab population of Israel”, “Arab inhabitants”, or the “Arab sector” are terms used by the Israeli government, Israeli Jews, and by the Hebrew-speaking media in Israel, to refer to Arabs that are citizens and/or residents of the State of Israel.
I haven’t looked at the sources, but conspicuously absent from the way Israeli jews describe Israel’s arab citizens is any mention whatsoever of the word Palestinian. That’s political, it’s wrong, and I won’t participate.
Sumud, this subthread began when WJ used the term “Arab,” Avi objected, and I agreed with WJ’s use. I’m not at all trying to tell anyone not to use the term “Palestinian.” My objection is to people telling others they can’t use the term “Arab.”
OK.
“I feel that I have paid sufficient respect/obeisance to the Palestinian national movement and can then relax and use the more natural “Arab””
Not terribly surprising that you reduce Palestine to a pan-Arab cause. This is just a polite reformatting of the Zionist trope about Palestinians being no more attached to their country than any given Arab who doesn’t want to give away one speck of the Middle East to dhimmis.
So, it would be ok if I called you an “ass”, having already used the full name “Wondering Jew” in the past?
If someone who speaks Arabic as their first language (and was born in a country that belongs to the Arab League) and when approached by someone else who speaks Arabic as their first language is asked, “Are you an Arab?” do they react with, “Don’t you dare call me that!” I don’t think so. If you know otherwise please enlighten me. To be called an Arab is not an insult, as far as I know and no one has demonstrated otherwise.
So if someone hears me speaking English, and comes up and asks me, “Are you English?”
Dear “ass”,
You can play it dumb all you want, but your behavior is typical of someone who doesn’t see the Other as equal. For example, you’ve never referred to yourself as an “American”, full stop. You prefer to see yourself as a “Jew” first.
Now, what you’re doing is arrogantly defining others’ identity for them. This is typical of the Zionist lobby’s modus operandi and typical of the racist sense of superiority where the natives are not allowed to speak for themselves. Suddenly, you’re defining THEIR identity for them. How noble.
And finally, why didn’t you answer the question about the TV station that you were watching?
Perhaps now that Phil has decided to balance this website with your drivel, he’ll offer Hamas a platform, too. You know, for balance.
Whadya say, Einstein?
Now, what you’re doing is arrogantly defining others’ identity for them. This is typical of the Zionist lobby’s modus operandi and typical of the racist sense of superiority where the natives are not allowed to speak for themselves. Suddenly, you’re defining THEIR identity for them. How noble.
Isn’t this just what you’re doing, Avi, by insisting that the Arabs of Israel call themselves “Palestinians” when most of them have always called themselves “Arabs” and still do?
Potsherd, do you really know anything about actual Palestinians? Seriously. For someone who wants to be on our side you spend a lot of time lamenting the drowning of Palestine, when she is still thrashing in the water with Israel holding her head below the surface.
I fail to understand why the wonderer is given a platform here? He is inherently bigoted, as his comments on previous articles have shown in the past (wonderer knows what I’m sayin’).
This article is about nothing, except his simple observations, entirely absent of significant analysis.
Potsherd:
you can’t see the point they are trying to make about Palestinians being called Arabs?
Chu, can’t you see that you are playing into their game of making the honorable word “Arab” a perjorative?
Chu, I think it’s useful to have WJ’s position presented here, because if it isn’t presented, people can’t refute it and point out what is wrong with a viewpoint that many people might find reasonable on the face of it.
Avi- It is true that the television station to which I referred is a government owned station, but the conversations on it are free wheeling and the usage of the term “Arab” by those Palestinian-Israeli Arabs did not seem artificial. Palestinians refer to themselves as Arabs in many different contexts, whether they are Israeli Palestinians or West Bank Palestinians. This is my contention, which no one has disproved. Neither have they proved that Palestinians consider it an insult to be called Arabs. To refer to them exclusively as Arabs without mentioning their nationality I accept veers into dangerous “naming” territory. But to refer to them as Arabs after one has shown that naming is not the purpose has not yet been proved here as offensive.
Potsherd, I think TGIA point stands out for me :
“Arabs” is a linguistic manipulation meant to suggest consciously or unconsciously that Arabs belong in (and came from) Arabia and are not indigenous to Palestine, they’re intruders/squatters/trespassers.”
On WJ, I think his article speaks for itself. But, perhaps a perch here will make him realize his blind spots.
example:
“When a new Palestinian/Arab female checkout clerk with a head covering was hired at the Office Depot franchise she smiled appreciatively when I chose to be checked out on her short line rather than wait for the Jewish checkout clerk whose line was much longer.”
What’s that about? Am I supposed to say what a nice guy? I think WJ is trying to show us that he’s a decent ‘shy’ guy who just trying to fit into a broken society, as a result of being part of a vicious group of european settlers. He would like to smile and befriend the A-rab, as long as she accepts her role as subordinate to Israeli culture.
Actually the last paragraph lost me with ‘sociological phenomenon’ and the Hamas reference. Very disconnected. Maybe you understand what he is saying.
It’s more a question of Israelis insisting on the word “Arab” for Palestinian-Israelis to distance these people from any referrence to the word “Palestine”; Israelis have the same hangup withy the word “Arab-Jews”. As much as Israelis loathe to see the term “Palestinian-Israelis”, they loathe it even more when they see the word “Arab-Jew”. They prefer that words such as Sephardic or Mizrahi be used in discussing Jews from Arab countries. It’s ironic how Arab-Jews refer to themselves as “Arab-Jews”.
As to WJ’s piece, I disagree with most of his ideas, but I see them as a refreshing change from the constant and monotonous anti-Zionist chatter that prevails here.
Palestinians as human beings.
>> Palestinians as human beings.
Yes, and wouldn’t it be nice if they could be human beings everywhere in their own land, rather than just in the odd shopping mall for the curiosity of others?
Since, however, “humanists” need their entertainment, occupation and oppression is necessary to keep Palestinians “resilient and energetic”. A “humanist” might even consider it “a good in the world”.
The first step is consciousness. Wondering’s perspective differs sharply from the perspective of the right.
Yes, but you and he still march in lock-step when it comes to denying the rights of refugees to return after being run off their homes by European colonial militants with guns.
Lock-step?
I think we do both agree that the human and civil rights of current individuals are critical for a democracy to be called a democracy.
…As long as, and only if, Jewish people get exclusive access to land in the Middle East.
You don’t read the post?
Right of Return. Selective application of international law, human rights when it favours jews. Your idea.
Like it or not, for many, if not most, Americans, Arab is thought of as a race. When has an anti-Arab utterance anyone has heard, not been racist?
Hey, you know where there are many malls where Arabs and Jews shop together side by side (and even Israelis and Palestinians)?
Brooklyn.
Flatbush Avenue.
Now that you have discovered that not all Palestinians brim over with bloodlust to lynch the nearest Jew, you can perhaps start talking to these “Others” whose presence in “your” shopping mall you find so strange and listening to them when they tell their stories of displacement, of discrimination, of apartheid.
In ’48, no less!
From last Sunday’s TA professors’ and artists’ rally to protest the racist oath of loyalty:
“… Professor Gabi Solomon said, “Here we are burying the Declaration of Independence,” and added cynically, “There is a reason for persecuting the Arabs; they are a fifth column and will stab us in the back. The fact that they haven’t done so in 62 years is irrelevant.”
link to ynetnews.com
Poor mixture of metaphors:
they are a fifth column and will stab us in the back
The fifth column refers to the very real NAZI sympathisers inside Norway who helped Germany conquer that country the latter was an utterly unfounded accusation made by the NAZIs against the Jews and the German left that they betrayed Germany in 1918. Get it? One happened the other a lie.
‘fifth column’ refers to the Spanish Civil War. Stab in the Back legend was the whisper campaign post WW1 inside Germany.
Ummm… I”m just disgusted after reading this. What was the point of the article? That you are a racist? I’m really disappointed WJ.
“I don’t know. The Hamas leaders who would threaten to rule a theoretical one state are not represented by the non ideological patrons of the mall. Neither are the ideologically driven teams of Kassam rocket launchers who might attempt to disturb airplane traffic from Ben Gurion airport in the theoretical two state solution.”
Oh yeah wondering, not all Palestinians are like Hamas. Some of them will even sign away the 1948 land and passive endure the military violence against them. Because, you know, only an islamofascist would resist apartheid and ethnic cleansing.
And Hamas guys never go to the mall, they never leave their basement bomb factories. As some IDF shill recently said, “These aren’t family men.”
potsherd- Au contraire- I am sure that I could not pick out a murderer out of a group of men, nor determine his propensity to murder from the size of his family or his conduct in the mall. The mall experience does not prove who is good and who is bad. It is merely a step in humanizing the “other”.
Oh indeed. I suppose that’s why you Israelis just drop bombs on whole apartment buildings to get the Hamas militant… and his family… and his neighbors. Oh, and hospitals, too. And mosques. And schools. Apparently.
So hard to tell one Palestinian from another!
If you are still nervous whenever a couple of kids walk in speaking Arabic, you need to take a lot more steps.
I think we should encourage rather than detract from WJ, because it seems he is open minded enough, based on his experiences, to accept a one state if he felt he wouldnt be endangered. Honestly, this is progress and it seems as though those aggressively questioning his use of the term “arab/palestinian” are sort of just looking to pick a fight.
If we are ever going to get the one state up and running, we’re going to need people in the middle like WJ. The extreme racists are a different story and the real leftists also have their minds made up. I don’t know how much of Israeli society is moderate maybe 20 or 30% but it should be cultivated not cut down.
Joseph, agree completely. I have come to accept that WJ is sincere if not a little paranoid and has difficulty in seeing the logical contradictions between Zionism and a true democratic and just Israeli society. More importantly, his comments and essays do seem to elicit some of the better exchanges on this site — he is worth it for that alone.
I agree Joseph.
If Mondoweiss is an echo chamber, it’s a failure. There are instances of people on MW who are serially disingenuous, and I don’t find WJ to be like that.
Those who think that the path to peace is simple and the path to a nonracial view of the “other” is simple are simply wrong. There are many baby steps that need to be taken.
Some of you seem to think that peace is just around the corner if only you are given the opportunity to yell into the ear of those who disagree with you. I don’t think that will work. It is reasonable to contend that the current situation is unsustainable and that the support of the United States for Israel allows Israelis to believe that there is no need for change. I believe there is need for change and that Israelis need to realize there is need to change. But that change will not be accomplished overnight nor will it come about by yelling in the ear of those you wish to change.
“Those who think that the path to peace is simple and the path to a nonracial view of the “other” is simple are simply wrong. There are many baby steps that need to be taken.”
Yes, and the more baby steps, the better for those who want to keep stealing land. The path is simple, it’s just that the Israelis don’t want it.
“Some of you seem to think that peace is just around the corner if only you are given the opportunity to yell into the ear of those who disagree with you. I don’t think that will work.”
You’re right. Yelling is futile. Yelling at apartheid South Africa did nothing. Economic and diplomatic pressure will work.
“I believe there is need for change and that Israelis need to realize there is need to change.”
Witty makes the same platitudes, but like you, opposes all measures to realize this outcome.
Shingo- I do not favor BDS, nor do I oppose it. BDS is not a position that I am emotionally comfortable with, nor are its supporters a crowd that I am emotionally comfortable with. But because of my inability to point to a measure that will lead Israelis to change, I cannot oppose it until I can come up with an alternate policy.
I respect your honest and ambivalent point of view about BDS. But I think you would agree that not to decide is in fact to decide, and that while you and other well-meaning people ponder alternate strategies the settlements/colonies grow, and any remaining chance for a 2-state solution continues to shrink.
James North- If in fact my opinion would change the world my lack of a decision would be crucial. But in fact even if I would decide to back BDS it would not change the facts on the ground and so the remaining chances for a 2ss are not essentially changed by my lack of a decision.
But because of my inability to point to a measure that will lead Israelis to change, I cannot oppose it until I can come up with an alternate policy.
try reading that back to yourself a few times. replace ‘it’ w/bds and see if it doesn’t make a little more sense. you being ‘uncomfortable’ w/something doesn’t rationalize supporting the israeli state right now, not when the alternative is ethnic cleansing. for heaven’s sakes WJ you get emotionally uncomfortable when teenage boys are talking loudly. waiting for you to stop feeling uncomfortable could be a lifelong event. obviously you care or you wouldn’t be here. stick your neck out, take a moral stand and make the world a better place.
“Facts on the ground.” That’s the terminology that’s used for the illegal Israeli settlements. How poignant.
If the idea is to lay out your racist baggage for some kind of cleansing, I think that might be productive. If you think trying to see Palestinians at a shopping mall as regular people, as opposed to terrorists puts you above the average racist Israeli, well, it probably does, but not above criticism here.
I think Wondering deserves a great deal of credit for even beginning to learn Arabic.
How many others hear have done that?
Adam? Phil?
La Arabi
I’m not sure what that means.
Is that yes or no?
Ha! Thank you, Mr. Weiss, for making my day. ;)
I took two semesters of it in recent years.
Seham, olive and Walid probably know it too — obviously, but hey, Witty, if you’re going to play ignorant, we’ll humor you. Saleema I believe said she was Muslim and Pakistani, so she’d likely know at least some Arabic, if not full-on fluency.
Anyone else? So how much Arabic do you know, Witty?
Oh! I think Shmuel has some familiarity with Arabic. Avi might as well, having been Israeli, though I don’t recall that he’s professed any fluency.
My knowledge of Arabic is minimal (very basic conversation and some Hebrew cognates), but it’s way up there on my to do list.
Why should Phil or Adam learn Arabic? They live in the US. WJ Lives in a country where knowledge of Arabic gives many advantages (to talk only of that)
more… link to zcommunications.org
Neta Golan became one of the foundng members of the International Solidarity Movement.
While I applaud your first steps to get past your fears, its apparent to me, as it is to many here, that you have a long journey ahead of you to get past your prejudice and fear. But every journey must start with a first step.
WJ, I know you have said in the past that you don’t listen to me because you don’t think I have sufficient concern for Jews, but I have concern for all people; I see singling Jews out for more concern than other humans as part of the deep problem within Israel. I would recommend that you join a group like Taayush, made up of both Arabs and Jews, get to know Palestinians as friends and not just as fellow shoppers, and become part of the solution instead of part of the problem. You won’t regret it.
Surely, at least some of the mall patrons actually voted for Hamas in 2006.
I’m glad to see that you are taking those baby steps towards recognizing that Palestinians are human. But what is needed is for all the Jews of Israel to take great big steps very quickly.
And your mind is still full of the importance of Jewishness. You write about “Jewish children speaking a Jewish language” as though this were a great value? Why? What does it matter what language they speak, as long as they can live full, decent lives?
“When a new Palestinian/Arab female checkout clerk with a head covering was hired at the Office Depot franchise she smiled appreciatively when I chose to be checked out on her short line rather than wait for the Jewish checkout clerk whose line was much longer.”
What a nice guy you are wonderer! A charmer, indeed. I always imagined you were from Flatbush, but thanks for the confirmation.
Chu- The Kings Plaza mall is on Flatbush Avenue but no one refers to that neighborhood as Flatbush.
I lived in Winnipeg and Chicago before Queens, Manhattan and Brooklyn, but I’m sure you don’t wish to deal with anything but your preconceptions of my identity.
Yeah. it’s easy to hold preconceptions, as you well know.