Al Jazeera publishes bombshell leak concerning the peace process; ex-CIA official ‘The overwhelming conclusion one draws from this record is that the process for a two-state solution is essentially over’

Israel/Palestine

Today, al-Jazeera has obtained a cache of nearly 1,700 confidential  files – memos, e-mails, maps, minutes from private meetings, accounts of high level exchanges, strategy papers and even power point presentations – dealing with the so-called peace process from 1999 to 2010. Al Jazeera has shared them with the Guardian (UK), and both organizations today began posting and and analyzing them.

The Palestinian Authority comes off looking particularly bad, or in the words of the Guardian “weak – and increasingly desperate.” Writing in the Guardian, Karma Nabulsi says this leak should mark the end of the PA:

It’s over. Given the shocking nature, extent and detail of these ghastly revelations from behind the closed doors of the Middle East peace process, the seemingly endless and ugly game is now, finally, over. Not one of the villains on the Palestinian side can survive it. With any luck the sheer horror of this account of how the US and Britain covertly facilitated and even implemented Israeli military expansion – while creating an oligarchy to manage it – might overcome the entrenched interests and venality that have kept the peace process going. A small group of men who have polluted the Palestinian public sphere with their private activities are now exposed.
It seems they won’t go down without a fight. So far PA officials are choosing to shoot the messenger and are claiming Al-Jazeera has declared war on Palestinians.
 
ajmap
A Palestinian rendition of the “napkin offer” Olmert made to Palestinian negotiators on a final land swap proposal. (Credit: Al Jazeera English)
We will be dissecting the documents and following the fallout in days to come. There will be plenty more to discuss – Haaretz is reporting that a document will released in coming days outlining “an Israeli offer to transfer Israeli Arabs citizens to the territory of a future Palestinian state.” One of the quick responses is that this seems to mark the end of what has been known as the peace process. Writing on the Al-Jazeera English website ex-CIA official Robert L. Grenier says “The overwhelming conclusion one draws from this record is that the process for a two-state solution is essentially over, that the history of the peace process is one of abject failure for all concerned.”
 
Here are some summary observations from the Guardian: 

 
- ”The overall impression that emerges from the documents, which stretch from 1999 to 2010, is of the weakness and growing desperation of PA leaders as failure to reach agreement or even halt all settlement temporarily undermines their credibility in relation to their Hamas rivals; the papers also reveal the unyielding confidence of Israeli negotiators and the often dismissive attitude of US politicians towards Palestinian representatives”
 
-“Livni is recorded confirming what Palestinians have always accused Israeli governments of doing: creating facts on the ground to prevent the possibility of a viable Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza.

At a west Jerusalem meeting in November 2007, she told Qurei that she believed Palestinians saw settlement building as meaning “Israel takes more land [so] that the Palestinian state will be impossible”; that “the Israel policy is to take more and more land day after day and that at the end of the day we’lll say that is impossible, we already have the land and we cannot create the state”. She conceded that had been “the policy of the government for a really long time”.

 
- “The documents reveal Palestinian Authority leaders often tipping over into making ingratiating appeals to their Israeli counterparts, as well as US leaders. “I would vote for you,” the then senior Palestinian negotiator, Ahmed Qureia (also known as Abu Ala), told Tzipi Livni, Israel‘s foreign minister, during talks at the King David hotel in Jerusalem in June 2008, as she was preparing for elections in her Kadima party. Given the choice, Livni shot back, “you don’t have much of a dilemma.”

Qureia’s comment echoed earlier private remarks by the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen), to Ariel Sharon in a June 2005 meeting at the then Israeli prime minister’s residence which would have caused outrage if they had been made known at the time.

Having listened to Sharon berate him for failing to crack down on the “terrorist infrastructure” of Hamas and Islamic jihad, Abbas was recorded as noting “with pleasure the fact that Sharon considered him a friend, and the fact that he too considered Sharon a friend”, adding that “every bullet that is aimed in the direction of Israel is a bullet aimed at the Palestinians as well”. In March 2008, the documents show that Qureia greeted the US secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, with the words: “You bring back life to the region when you come.””

-“‎All the US government was interested in, Erekat went on, was “PR, quick news, and we’re cost free”, ending up with the appeal: “What good am I if I’m the joke of my wife, if I’m so weak?””

About Adam Horowitz

Adam Horowitz is Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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130 Responses

  1. lobewyper
    January 23, 2011, 7:28 pm

    Why am I not surprised by these revelations???

    • annie
      January 23, 2011, 8:58 pm

      the more i read the worse it gets

      The surrender of land Palestinians have lived on for centuries prompts more demands. Not only does Israel want all of East Jerusalem, Har Homa, and the settlement blocs of Ariel and Ma’ale Adumim which carve strategic swathes out of the West Bank. Not only does it insist on a demilitarised state. It also wants Palestinian leaders to sign away their future. When Mr Erekat asked Ms Livni: “Short of your jet fighters in my sky and your army on my territory, can I choose where I secure external defence?”. She replied: “No. In order to create your state you have to agree in advance with Israel – you have to choose not to have the right of choice afterwards. These are the basic pillars.”

      when is the global community going to step in and muzzle this little criminal state?

      Has the former nightclub bouncer from Moldova become more Israeli? Or is Israel behaving more like a Moldovan nightclub bouncer?

  2. Les
    January 23, 2011, 7:31 pm

    What is most shocking is the concessions offered and the groveling of the PLO leadership.
    Read the Guardian editorial “Pleading for a Fig Leaf”
    link to guardian.co.uk

    and read why PLO leadership must go “Palestinians must reject their officials and rebuild their movement”
    link to guardian.co.uk

  3. Philip Munger
    January 23, 2011, 7:31 pm

    A lot of comments already at the Guardian article, which I had just read prior to this post coming up at Mondoweiss. This one strikes me as beyond odd:

    I’m usually a massive proponent of the right of people to know these things, but is it worth it if the Guardian publications start a new war in which hundreds or thousands are killed again? It’s a little too optimistic to hope even that these papers will turn American public opinion against Israel, let alone soften the heart of the administration.

    One more nail in the two-state coffin.

    • Psychopathic god
      January 23, 2011, 8:39 pm

      J-Street at the ready:

      In just 48 hours, President Obama delivers his State of the Union address. Every word will be analyzed for signals about his plans for the second half of his term.

      We want the White House to know that a large number of Americans expect him to list Middle East peace among his priorities and urge him to outline a bolder, more ambitious approach to resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

      Obama Administration officials told Politico recently that they’re openly seeking new ideas on the Middle East [1], and a change in course could well be in the works. This is an important moment for us to make our voices heard. . . .

      it’s really annoying that J Street demands Obama to solve ISRAEL’s problems, while Israel gets to play the intransigent brat.

      hello — Obama is pres of US of America, remember?

      • pabelmont
        January 24, 2011, 8:11 am

        The PA is revealed to the world (the Palestinians have known of PLO corruption — Quislingness — Vichyness –for decades; recall the Hamas electoral victory as proof of this) as corrupt. And as powerless (but who that was paying attention didn’t know THAT?).

        J-Street has not found its feet (or, as seems more likely, isn’t even trying) to seek peace and justice, and continues to be pro-Israel in an anti-Palestinian way in this “struggle” between (in weight terms) a heavy-weight boxer and a 16-month-old child. In this, J-Street differs little from the US-Jewish establishment or the US-government, neither of which betrays any interest in either peace or justice. J-Street doesn’t care to be in opposition, but merely to nibble at the edges, perhaps merely to keep people away from JVP. From a peace and justice perspective, unhelpful.

    • Potsherd2
      January 23, 2011, 9:10 pm

      It’s a stake in the heart of the PA

  4. CTuttle
    January 23, 2011, 7:36 pm

    The Emperor’s wardrobe has been fully exposed for what it is…!

  5. Potsherd2
    January 23, 2011, 7:40 pm

    Comments at Ha’aretz also slamming both Israel and the PA. If I were Erekat, I’d double up my bodyguards and pay them a bonus.

    Of course none of this should be news to the US, which still plays the same old “negotiations” broken record, regardless.

  6. lohdennis
    January 23, 2011, 7:50 pm

    Palestinian Authority is treasonous to the Palestinian people’s interests. They should all be fired and removed, once and for all. First thing first.

    • annie
      January 23, 2011, 8:00 pm

      fired? in front of a firing squad?

      • annie
        January 23, 2011, 8:00 pm

        that was a joke, i am against the death penalty.

      • Cliff
        January 23, 2011, 8:09 pm

        annie you’re clearly pro-firing squad!

      • lohdennis
        January 23, 2011, 8:07 pm

        I will leave it up to your interpretation. In any reasonable society, they are traitors and should get maximum penalty consistent with the justice system. Personally, I prefer sending them to some prison on the Lena or the Yenisey Rivers in Siberia.

    • Jethro
      January 23, 2011, 8:29 pm

      Hold the phone, there’s an interesting piece by former CIA, Robert Grenier, also at al Jazeera. About the PA leadership he writes:
      In doing so, they knew, they ran an enormous risk. For if their successful efforts to end terror failed to elicit a good-faith response from the Israelis, and if their conformity to international expectations and their cooperation in the US war on terror failed to convince the US to advocate effectively on their behalf, they could easily be branded as quislings, as trustees of the Israeli prison being inexorably constructed for their people.

      Their good works, they knew, instead of being rewarded, might only make the status quo more comfortable for the Israelis, and incentivize greater Israeli obduracy.

      I have spent many hours reading The Palestine Papers, the recent 10-year record of the so-called Israeli-Palestinian peace process. The picture which clearly emerges from these pages of the Palestinian leadership and of the peace process negotiators themselves is that these are no quislings. For month after month, year after year, through endless, mind-numbing subcommittee meetings and plenary sessions, through interminable exchanges of letters and legal briefs, slogging from hotel meetings in Jerusalem to conferences in Egypt to “summit meetings” in Washington, the Palestinian negotiators tirelessly advocate on behalf of their people’s interests. In the face of Israeli condescension, obfuscation, and endless legalistic pettifogging they continually push back, insisting on application of relevant international law, despite the Israelis’ obvious contempt for their international obligations.

      They persist in the face of the Americans’ blatant advocacy on behalf of the Israelis, refusing to cave in to consistent American pressure designed to force the Palestinians to compensate for Israeli inflexibility with ever-greater concessions of their own.

      • Taxi
        January 23, 2011, 10:16 pm

        “…. Israeli inflexibility…”

        That’s why war is inevitable.

      • Psychopathic god
        January 23, 2011, 11:01 pm

        extremely important paragraphs that cast an entirely different light on the situation than at first suggested.

        thanks Jethro.
        deserves bold letters.

        Stuart Levey is leaving Treasury Dept. gonna “spend some time at home.”

        Rats leaving the ship?
        Levey wants to be part of some huge, huge sting that Israel is going to pull (having practiced running stings in/on US/Iran)?
        Levey’s wife found out whose head that blonde hair belongs to?

      • Psychopathic god
        January 24, 2011, 8:05 am

        NYT is headlining this as “Palestinians agreed to give up . . .”

        tinfoil hat tingling: Israel leaked this deliberately to box in Fatah.
        no doubt Abbas had made those agreements; just too convenient that it comes out now.
        this is disgusting.

    • Potsherd2
      January 23, 2011, 9:11 pm

      Naturally, they’re denying their asses off.

  7. lareineblanche
    January 23, 2011, 7:50 pm

    The “peace process” is dead. Long live the Peace Process !!

    • bijou
      January 23, 2011, 11:15 pm

      It was always a “piece” process (break whatever’s left of Palestine into ever smaller pieces… )

  8. Cliff
    January 23, 2011, 7:52 pm

    big shocker, but what about those Hamas rockets at S’Derot?

    what about them? (meanwhile I’m building more colonies, kicking people off more of their land, throwing more peace activists in jail, violating more human rights, stealing more resources, etc. etc.)

    what about them? (meanwhile I’m building more colonies, kicking people off more of their land, throwing more peace activists in jail, violating more human rights, stealing more resources, etc. etc.)

    what about them? (meanwhile I’m building more colonies, kicking people off more of their land, throwing more peace activists in jail, violating more human rights, stealing more resources, etc. etc.)

    • eee
      January 23, 2011, 11:23 pm

      Cliff,

      Since you think you have figured out how Israel works, why not advice the Palestinians to negotiate faster? Why not make the peace plan they are offering Netanyahu public and create pressure on him?

      • pjdude
        January 24, 2011, 5:21 am

        You mena give away more rights to feed the great maw that is ISrael?

  9. annie
    January 23, 2011, 7:58 pm

    The offers were made in 2008-9, in the wake of President George Bush’s Annapolis conference, and were privately hailed by the chief Palestinian negotiator, Saeb Erekat, as giving Israel “the biggest Yerushalayim [the Hebrew name for Jerusalem] in history” in order to resolve the world’s most intractable conflict. Israeli leaders, backed by the US government, said the offers were inadequate.

    well, there it is folks.

  10. lohdennis
    January 23, 2011, 8:05 pm

    This is the beginning of the end of Jewish Israel. Palestinian Authority has no reason to exist except as “tools” for Zionist Israel and its backers (worldwide Zionist Jewry and others who support Jewish Israel). Palestinians don’t need PA, world peace doesn’t need PA. Get rid of them, once and for all. We certainly don’t need Jewish Israel either. Democratic Jewish Israel is an oxymoron.

  11. Richard Witty
    January 23, 2011, 8:11 pm

    How do those reports describe the peace process as dead?

    • Potsherd2
      January 23, 2011, 8:15 pm

      Try reading the reports for once.

    • lohdennis
      January 23, 2011, 8:17 pm

      Richard Witty: There is no peace and there is no process. Therefore peace process doesn’t (or didn’t) exist. When things don’t exist, the final condition is similar to “dead” although not everything that don’t exist are necessarily dead, like Yahweh for example.

      • WeAreAllMadeOfStars
        January 24, 2011, 6:38 am

        Lohdennis …

        I don’t quite understand … Do you mean that Yahweh does not exist or that Yahweh is dead … ? (joking, but intrested in your (or anybody else’s) answer … ’cause in any case that spells the end of the Jewish state if I understand the scripture well (which I probably don’t) … I am like Mr Witty (on the leaks) I haven’t read them

      • lohdennis
        January 24, 2011, 10:51 am

        Yahweh never existed, in my opinion except in the minds of some illiterate tribesmen.

    • Citizen
      January 24, 2011, 8:06 am

      Witty, read Jethro’s comment, which appeared here before your pretense of naivety.

  12. Cliff
    January 23, 2011, 8:15 pm

    See this is my point.

    When it comes to Israel, I don’t think there is really much of a separation between ‘the US’ and ‘Israel.’ Too many Israel-firsters and hardcore Zionists are running the show. The game is rigged.

    • lohdennis
      January 23, 2011, 8:25 pm

      I would go one step further. For many Zionist Americans, Israel is first, second, and third. I think they are far more loyal to Israel even when it hurts US interests. To me they are traitors to American citizens’ interests. Why do you think so many Americans died in Iraq and Afghanistan? The overwhelming reason is Israel (but I admit it’s not 100 Israel).

      • Chaos4700
        January 23, 2011, 10:26 pm

        We’ve already seen that in action. The Zionist Americans here proudly trumpeted the death of a “terrorist” “militant” on the Mavi Marmara — a 19-year-old American citizen. And they’ve happy thrown Rachel Corrie under the armored bulldozer and called it “her own fault” for standing up against ethnic cleansing. Remember when yonira graciously offered to Emily Henowicz’s father that he would help him sue the ISM? You know, instead of the army that took her eye out? Never mind what Emily has to say about the matter (Zionism — you’ve come a long way, baby!)

        They know people who were born here, but instead of serving our military — during a stated time of crisis, no less — the went to Israel to become part of the occupation state instead. (And as I’ve said before, what’s almost as bad as a couple of traitors is one single coward, which makes one wonder where they themselves stand.)

        The Zionist movement isn’t a threat to Israeli democracy — that never existed in the first place. It’s American democracy that has been subverted and, I fear, lethally poisoned.

      • Psychopathic god
        January 23, 2011, 11:05 pm

        Alan Hart

      • Citizen
        January 24, 2011, 8:08 am

        Yep. Alan Hart has repeatedly shown he knows the skinney.

  13. lobewyper
    January 23, 2011, 8:30 pm

    The following is from an article currently posted on Al Jazeera (English) by Robert Grenier, former Director of CIA Counter-Intelligence (2004-06):

    “All of us approach this record ["The Palestinian Papers"] burdened with our own backgrounds and experiences. I assess them as an American, and as a former government practitioner. As an American, the reaction I draw, frankly, is one of shame. My government has consistently followed the path of least resistance and of short-term political expediency, at the cost of decency, justice, and our clear, long-term interests. More pointedly, The Palestine Papers reveal us to have alternatively demanded and encouraged the Palestinian participants to take disproportionate risks for a negotiated settlement, and then to have refused to extend ourselves to help them achieve it, leaving them exposed and vulnerable. The Palestine Papers, in my view, further document an American legacy of ignominy in Palestine.”

    Well said?

    • Potsherd2
      January 23, 2011, 10:23 pm

      Very.

      It’s really a question of which side is most despicable. There’s a lot to despise.

  14. piotr
    January 23, 2011, 8:54 pm

    Witty asks a salient question.

    The problem is that with the most Quisling-y team on Palestinian side that is imaginable, and the most moderate leaders that Israeli political process can produce, which is Kadima/Livni (spiritual daughter of Ariel Sharon, kind of Likud Menshevik) there is no deal.

    The consequences are rather monstrous in the long term. Israelis think that in the long term they can expel Palestinians and having absolute superiority, either

    — Palestinians offer no terrorism, and slow motion ethnic cleansing can move them to ever smaller patches of land without much of trouble, or

    — terrorism will reappear, and Israel will regain moral superiority that is a bit wobbly now, and get more justification for perhaps somewhat faster ethnic cleansing and more walls.

    This will not be palatable for Israeli Arab citizens and a minority of Jewish citizens, giving a very useful shibboleth that can be used be the patriotic forces to coalesce against the internal enemy. With luck, the patriotic forces will be satisfied with vilification with only a modicum of repressions, so the state will retain a tag of “democratic”.

    In my view, getting some kind of Quisling strongmen for Palestinian in the framework of “two state solution” was perhaps not a pretty solution, perhaps not moral, but with some chances of being workable. What is most shocking is that Israeli governments want none of that. Wannabe Quislings are treated like a piece of dung.

    Peace process makes sense if someone will impose a realistic solution upon Israel. One option is for USA to go away and leave the problem for the regional powers, Turkey and Iran to settle (or Tercet, current Quartet but without USA).

    • bijou
      January 23, 2011, 11:18 pm

      The arrogance of unopposed power. They think they can force whatever end game they want, and the hell with anyone else.

      Here’s the rub: The end game they are going for is going to boomerang and cause the end of Zionism.

    • Woody Tanaka
      January 24, 2011, 1:46 pm

      In my view, the only play left for the Palestinians is the South Africa option. It eliminates the possiblity of a two-state solution, but they are a sizable enough percentage that any call for full rights within a single state may be the only way to head off the murderous barbarism of the Zionists.

  15. radii
    January 23, 2011, 8:56 pm

    Years from now we will praise WikiLeaks and those associated with saving what remains of democracy (which may go to ground in Iceland while America and Europe cave to craven corporate fascism and neocon wars the next decade or so) … this latest revelation about the sellouts among the Palestinian leadership show just how corrupt the US position has been all along, and how the millions in bribes going to the US-sanctioned Palestinian leadership can buy capitulation to israel’s endless evil.

    The Arab/Muslim world is finally on the streets and ready to throw out their dictators. Hopefully what happened in north Africa will spread and infect thoroughly the Palestinian population and they too will throw the bums out among their own leaders.

    The Palestinians need to pick new leaders soon who will not compromise on East Jerusalem and will throw out all previous agreements negotiated by the corrupt israel-compromised American leaders and demand – DEMAND – all of East Jerusalem and the right of return for all Palestinians as a the 1st negotiating position.

    Time to hit the “re-set” button indeed!

    The more of these WikiLeaks documents that come forth, the more disgusting America reveals itself to be – such betrayal of human rights, the pursuit of justice and democratic values … israel’s mafia mindset has completely overtaken US governance.

    • bijou
      January 23, 2011, 11:18 pm

      Mind you, this came from an unknown source. NOT wikileaks or at least, we don’t know that. Definitely something to consider. Who would benefit, why would they do this?

  16. Potsherd2
    January 23, 2011, 9:14 pm

    Palestine will follow the example of Tunisia – intifada against the PA.

    • bijou
      January 23, 2011, 10:22 pm

      We need an intifada in the US as well.

      • Chaos4700
        January 23, 2011, 10:31 pm

        Oh, it’s coming. The “jobless recovery” economy pretty much guarantees that.

      • yonira
        January 23, 2011, 11:03 pm

        nice catch phrase from your progressive handbook Chaos, but seriously, an American ‘intifada’? how can you compare a fledgling democracy with an autocratic regime like Tunisia?

        We don’t need an uprising, we have elections every two years, talking about a ‘guaranteed’ American intifada is pretty un-American.

      • pineywoodslim
        January 24, 2011, 1:13 am

        Tunisia had elections as well, with Ben-Ali’s party winning upwards of 90 percent of the vote. In contrast our War Party generally manages around 98%.

      • Citizen
        January 24, 2011, 8:20 am

        This is really funny! Yonira as a patriotic American chiefly concerned with the interests of Americans. The USA’s oliarchy/plutocratic elite staved off an authentic American intifada via the Big Bank Bailout; but that only kicked the inequity can down the road; once Americans get a dose of what their own government has been doing all these years in the I-P conflict, and what that has cost us, this revelation will combine with joblessness for real change, right here in the good old USA. It’s coming. Most recently, Obama’s love fest with China has produced more jobs–in China. The notion that Obama is basically a communist, or at least a hard-core socialist a la Glen Beck is a joke–Goldman Sachs was the biggest supporter of Obama–and McCain too.

  17. talknic
    January 23, 2011, 9:55 pm

    Nothing has changed in 62 years Were successive Israel Governments human, they would have been committed to a padded cell in an institution for the criminally insane.

  18. Abierno
    January 23, 2011, 10:07 pm

    Its important to remember that these are not, according to AlJazeera
    Wikileaks documents but “appear” to be from the Palestinian side. How
    convenient that as the Palestinian’s move the place their plight before
    the Security Council the PA is discredited. Who benefits? Would Mossad
    have the motivation and capability to facilitate such leaks under a false
    flag. Would the Israeli ruling quartet of Bibi, Barak, Galant and Lieberman
    have the political will for such an act. What steps would Israel find necessary to take to support their “security” in the situation of the ascent
    of Hamas or a less pliant/more militant government in the West Bank?
    One cannot consider this situation without also considering the current
    instability in Lebanon, particularly in the light of Nasrallah’s suggestion
    that Hariri was assasinated by Israel.

    • Potsherd2
      January 23, 2011, 10:24 pm

      First guess – Dahlan.

      • annie
        January 23, 2011, 11:15 pm

        nah, these were likely leaked by the palestinian side’s negotiating teams scribes, according to the guardian..i’ll find the link

      • annie
        January 23, 2011, 11:22 pm

        The story behind the Palestine papers

        The bulk of the documents are records, contemporaneous notes and sections of verbatim transcripts of meetings drawn up by officials of the Palestinian negotiation support unit (NSU), which has been the main technical and legal backup for the Palestinian side in the negotiations.

        The unit has been heavily funded by the British government. Other documents originate from inside the PA’s extensive US- and British-sponsored security apparatus.

        The Israelis, Americans and others kept their own records, which may differ in their accounts of the same meetings. But the Palestinian documents were made and held confidentially, rather than for overt or public use, and significantly reveal large gaps between the private and stated positions of Palestinian and, in fewer cases, Israeli leaders.

        The NSU – formally part of the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) – is based in the West Bank town of Ramallah under the chief Palestinian negotiator, Saeb Erekat. It has drawn heavily on the expertise of Palestinian-American and other western-trained diaspora Palestinian lawyers for technical support in negotiations.

        In the case of one-to-one talks between Israeli and Palestinian leaders – especially between Mahmoud Abbas and the then Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert – NSU officials were not present, but reports on the outcome of the encounters were often given later to the unit and records made.

        After the breakdown of the Camp David talks, which Clinton and Israeli leaders blamed on Yasser Arafat and a lack of technical Palestinian preparation, Palestinian leaders went to great lengths to ensure that the fullest records and supporting documents were drawn up for later talks. Among NSU staff, the Arab-American lawyer Zeinah Salahi drew up many of the meeting records, while others were made by the French-Palestinian lawyer Ziyad Clot, author of a book about the negotiations, Il n’y aura pas d’Etat Palestinien (There will be no Palestinian state).

        The role of the NSU in the negotiations has caused tensions among West Bank-based Palestinian leaders and officials, and widespread resentment about the salaries paid to its most senior managers, notably Adam Smith International’s Andrew Kuhn, who stepped down from running the unit last year.

        But as the negotiations have increasingly been seen to have failed, and the Ramallah-based PA leadership has come to be regarded by many Palestinians as illegitimate or unrepresentative, discontent among NSU staff has grown and significant numbers have left. There has also been widespread discontent in the organisation at the scale and nature of concessions made in the talks.

        Among NSU staff cited in the documents, Salahi now works for the US embassy in Cairo, Clot has returned to France and Rami Dajani works for Tony Blair in his role as the Middle East quartet’s envoy. Kuhn is working elsewhere for Adam Smith International, including on projects in Afghanistan.

      • bijou
        January 23, 2011, 11:25 pm

        Thanks Annie. That makes sense in a way.

      • annie
        January 23, 2011, 11:27 pm

        yeah, it makes a lot of sense. whoever leaked these are friends of the palestinian people.

      • eee
        January 23, 2011, 11:36 pm

        Whoever leaked these papers are enemies of the PA and Fatah. Whether they are friends of the Palestinian people remains to be seen. I don’t think these papers change anything at all, but if they lead to another intifada or a civil war among the Palestinians, I don’t think you will be happy either.

      • NorthOfFortyNine
        January 24, 2011, 1:41 am

        That distant light up ahead, eee? That would be the call for One man, One vote. She’s a coming down the track! Choo-chooo!

    • bijou
      January 23, 2011, 10:26 pm

      Well that’s plausible in one sense. But remember, if the PA completely implodes, then Israel is left to pick up the pieces for “administration” of internal Palestinian affairs. It would not entirely be in their interests for the PA to completely implode.

      One could see this in the opposite light — this exposure of ruthless squeezing of the pathetic PA could create a lot of international outrage and sympathy among countries that were wavering as to whether to support the “Palestinian state” … it could create a domino effect that is not at all in Israel’s interest.

      I am not discounting your hypothesis at all, just reminding that there could be other ways to view it.

      It is important to try and understand why/how these particular documents surfaced at this particular time.

      • Citizen
        January 24, 2011, 8:25 am

        Not to mention, Israel will would have to fund the Palestinians, replacing the USA/EU funding.

    • annie
      January 23, 2011, 11:26 pm

      Abierno, these are not wikileaks. israel didn’t release these, why would they advertise what a-holes they are and tank the decades old meme they have no partner in peace. that makes no sense.

    • radii
      January 24, 2011, 1:37 am

      I’m all for blaming israel for just about everything (for sure Hariri’s death) … but I doubt they are behind this leak. The Palestinian people benefit from such a leak – they know the unvarnished truth now of what they’d only heard talked about in the past: their leaders are absolute weak sellouts and it is the US who does israel’s strong-arming rather than seek anything approaching a fair and equitable resolution. This should enrage the Palestinian people and motivate them – which is not what israel wants … they want a beaten-down compliance and nothing more (well, they do want a huge amount of humiliation thrown in too)

  19. bijou
    January 23, 2011, 10:30 pm

    The plot thickens: Abbas and Erekat call the documents “a pack of lies.”

    Chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat has dismissed the documents released by Al Jazeera that show private offers by PA officials to Israelis on contested issues than previously revealed as “a bunch of lies”.

    In an appearance on Al Jazeera shortly after the documents were released on Sunday, Erakat said the Palestinian leadership had “nothing to hide” and dismissed most of the report as lies.

    He said that the information shown contained mistakes and inaccuracies and that his words were taken out of context and he was misquoted.

    “I have always said that east Jerusalem is part of Palestine.

    “No body has given up anything, I have shown Jerusalem Map on Al Jazeera a year ago. The land exchange principle was discussed before,” Erakat said.

    He said that all documents were shared in advance with the Arab league and several Arab countries, including Egypt, Jordan, and Qatar.

    “We have not gone back on our position. If we had given ground on the refugees and made such concessions, why hasn’t Israel agreed to sign a peace accord?” he asked.

    Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, told Egyptian newspapers editors in Cairo that he kept the Arab League updated on all details of the negotiations with Israel, according to the Palestinian news agency Wafa.

    “I don’t know from where al Jazeera came with secret things….

  20. VR
    January 23, 2011, 10:40 pm

    Lobewyper I am glad you are not surprised by this – I am not surprised either, I am also not surprised by US activity in the process. Why people here think that this is any different than all the other processes of US and Israeli activity is beyond me – they keep making strange overtures of redress to this monstrosity thinking they are going to get some type of result from all the means employed throughout history, that have never deeply changed anything both foreign and domestic.

    To be really frank I doubt whether anyone here is prepared for a material anaylsis of what is transpiring globally, I could give it a shot. Do you think this is the only issue that the US and Israel are engaged in (Israel-Palestine peace process)? Let me pull the curtain back a bit –

    “Either directly or through proxies in Africa, the U.S., the E.U., and Israel are the main architects behind the fighting and instability in both Darfour and South Sudan. These outside powers have assisted in the training, financing, and arming of the militias and forces opposed to the Sudanese government within Sudan. They lay the blame squarely on Khartoum’s shoulders for any violence while they themselves fuel conflict in order to move in and control the energy resources of Sudan. The division of Sudan into several states is part of this objective. Support of the JEM, the South Sudan Liberation Army (SSLA), and other militias opposed to the Sudanese government by the U.S., the E.U., and Israel has been geared towards achieving the objective of dividing Sudan.

    It is also no coincidence that for years the U.S., Britain, France, and the entire E.U. under the pretext of humanitarianism have been pushing for the deployment of foreign troops in Sudan. They have actively pushed for the deployment of NATO troops in Sudan under the cover of a U.N. peacekeeping mandate.

    This is a re-enactment of the same procedures used by the U.S. and E.U. in other regions where countries have either formally or informally been divided and their economies restructured by foreign-installed proxy governments under the presence of foreign troops. This is what happened in the former Yugoslavia (through the creation of several new republics) and in Anglo-American occupied Iraq (through soft balkanization via a calculated form of federalism aimed at establishing a weak and de-centralized state). Foreign troops and a foreign presence have provided the cloud for state dismantlement and the foreign takeover of state infrastructure, resources, and economies.”

    The Balkanization of Sudan: The Redrawing of the Middle East and North Africa

    The mistake is thinking that this process is only taking place in Palestine, but that is only the domestic activity of Israel which reflects the global activity. The same goes for the USA, which has axed its domestic responsibilities (which quite frankly have always been a sham) for the elite it has always served. If you can’t figure out what is transpiring domestically how will you know what is taking place globally? If you can ascertain what is transpiring globally why is it so hard to see what is transpiring domestically? The fact of the matter is that there is much more transpiring globally regarding Israel which is helping the US and EU divide and conquer the poor and weak (just like Israel is doing to its indigenous), so they can all take a helping of what is not theirs.

    Now lets see if the holders of Wikileaks information will really open up what is transpiring in the world – to be frank I do not think that is going to happen with any MSM outlet. The question is will the people wake up and do what is necessary, or will we go on another conventional protest march (which does about as much good here as it does for the Palestinians in Israel, without the right mix)?

    • lohdennis
      January 23, 2011, 11:53 pm

      I agree with your overall analysis. However, every country does this sort of thing to the extent possible. The principal obstacle to the US/EU/Israel strategy is that the world is becoming more multi-centric. In fact, if one simply did cash flow/balance sheet analysis, most of US ventures are actually funded by borrowed money from China and Japan. China realizes that this colonial/imperial strategy is doomed to fail and thus is willing to “allow” it to happen while US/EU bleeds from far-flung war zones and making indigenous enemies. Brazil can’t wait on the outside because they know US can’t manipulate them. India wants to participate but doesn’t have the reach. Russia wants to participate but realistically doesn’t have the reach anymore.
      History tells us that Europe imploded because of the First World War, allowing the rise of US as a global power. Second World War completely destroyed its colonial/imperial enterprises. Neither US nor EU is a position to “fund” any of these ventures anymore. I think that’s why China, Brazil, and a few others are relatively mum about this. When one’s competitor/enemy is involved in self-destructive folly, its the wise who simply let them implode while increasing foreign reserve.

      • VR
        January 24, 2011, 2:02 am

        lohdennis, it is interesting that you would disconnect the current activities of China, Japan, and India from the current global “colonial/imperial” activity, however it is not in reality what is transpiring. First of all China, Japan and India are all participating in the colonial process, this is because they are some of the beneficiaries of the theft. If you look at the mix of who is receiving what from lets say – Africa, it is these countries. China has been one of the largest beneficiaries of the oil development in Iraq, and both China and India are heavily involved in extracting the resources from Africa from the activity linked to the USA, EU and other Western players. We are facing a global enterprise, and whereas countries will sometimes work against each other I assure you this is not the case in the present activity.

        If you are speaking of the strength of China in terms of cash flow, you need to do a little more investigation as to its current condition. Actually China is about to implode, it has placed (as an example) over 60% of its capital into real estate development- more than half of the developments are unoccupied – do you know why? It is because China has chosen the worst of both worlds, it has developed a tiny rich elite compared to its population – not unlike the what is transpiring in Western countries which are losing the middle class (which is the duped fat around the midsection of the elite). China’s managerial class has shrunk, and China has the worst of both worlds in the sense of an unfettered capitalism, while at the same time keeping the repressive characteristics of its communist legacy (and has thousands of riots yearly, which are never reported in the muted MSM). What will the Chinese people do when they come up for “their turn” and there is nothing to be had for the next generation?

        So, essentially, both your points about letting the West self-destruct as other poles watch the process, and that China is some indestructible financial powerhouse are not exactly true. China nor Japan (or India) for that matter are independent of the monetary system which ties all of these countries together, as well as their mutual self-interest. So there is no “mum” in the process, there is cooperation, and this is because states are essentially the same under the capitalistic rubric – they are all franchises of an elite, and until this is recognized by the people globally and they rise up to remedy it they will always be the victims.

      • VR
        January 24, 2011, 2:15 am

        While I am at it, why don’t we narrow down to a few more material considerations of what is taking place in the “I-P conflict.” It might sound familiar to you and hence less exciting and exotic, but I assure you it is center stage for the current condition of Gaza –

        ARABS KEEP OUT! ISRAEL LAYS CLAIM TO ALL THE RESOURCES

      • Citizen
        January 24, 2011, 8:38 am

        VR and lohdennis are both right; the situation is fluid. Without going to VR’s link (I have no time now), I also agree about Israel always working to take over all resources in the former Mandate land; the latest case in point is the gas/oil reserves found off the Gaza coast.

      • lohdennis
        January 24, 2011, 10:59 am

        Let me assure that the Chinese are independent of US and EU. Of course, China goes out securing its natural resources pipeline and oil supplies. That’s what every country does. However, China has virtually NO overseas bases (I think US has presence in over 100 countries), no military (self-defense) treaties, do not demand regime-change for trade treaties.
        I have been following my own family’s history over the last 140 years since branches of them have left China. Chinese people on the average are far better off than they have ever been including my distant relatives who still live in quasi-villages. As for the few elites, of course, they exist but nothing like US. That is the key difference between the affluent Russians and Chinese. Perhaps, if you did some field research in addition to reading English-language magazines and newspapers, you will see a better picture.

      • VR
        January 24, 2011, 10:02 pm

        I know how you feel lohdennis, but how one feels at times has little to do with the facts. In fact China cannot be “independent of US and EU,” that is not how it has billed itself and this is not even close to reality. China not only avails itself of what has been done to open these territories by the US and EU (both imperial and colonial) it employs other neocolonialist means to work above the heads of people in other countries – so why shoot someone when you can pay someone else to do it (this is true of taking advantage of what the US and EU offer through years of this type of activity, as well as China’s own “soft” brand)? China does not need overseas bases, it takes advantage of what is already present, both foreign and domestic in other resource rich countries (even the very mapped existence of these countries many times are the forceful activity of colonial/imperialism). China sits in the UN Security Council as a permanent member, which “independent” China are we talking about?

        You say everyone is “living better,” let me give you an idea of heath-care in China (I do not know why I am reciting this, because I think you now full well what you are saying). Health-care was better on percentages payed a few years ago, so this is now worse percentages –

        CAPITALISM STRIKES CHINA AGAIN!

        “In the early years of the Chinese Revolution there was health care for all, it was introduced in 1949, and although it was fairly adequate life expectancy jumped from 35 years of age to 68. However, this all began to erode at the introduction of the “market reforms” of 79′ and it is now a fond memory. As in all Capitalistic countries the wealth is in the hands of a few, and health care has become an unbearable cost along with education and housing in the “New China.”

        China ranks 181 out of 191 according to the WHO in equality of medical resources among a population of 1.3 billion. In 1980 the governments share was 40 percent, it has now dropped to 16%. There is a saying in China in regard to health care (see if this strikes any chords): “Once an ambulance siren wails, a pig is taken to the market; once a hospital bed is slept in, a year of farming goes down the drain; and when someone falls ill with a serious disease, 10 years of saving are whittled away.” With the exorbitant expense of health care in the United States what would our saying be?”

        Also, “Perhaps, if you did some field research in addition to reading English-language magazines and newspapers, you will see a better picture.” – all of this information came to my knowledge through people I know at Peking University.

        CAPITALISM CRUSHING CHINA’S SMALL MIDDLE CLASS DREAMS

        These are not stories from English-language magazines, that are fueled with “prejudice,” they are just plainly told common occurrences. I understand you’re discomfort (but not equivocation regarding commonly known facts), however it cannot be allowed to get in the way of reality. And I have not even begun to scratch the surface. I would have thought you got a clue of my impartiality by my strong criticisms of other countries, including the West.

      • lohdennis
        January 25, 2011, 1:13 am

        Let’s agree to disagree. As a Chinese who has moved to US a long time ago and who has followed China for a long time my assessment differs from yours. We clearly have access to different database. Time will tell if China acts according to its own will or not. Let the future speak for itself.

      • MRW
        January 24, 2011, 9:25 am

        History tells us that Europe imploded because of the First World War, allowing the rise of US as a global power. Second World War completely destroyed its colonial/imperial enterprises. Neither US nor EU is a position to “fund” any of these ventures anymore.

        That’s the crux of it. (lohdennis is absolutely correct to point his laser there, and not engage in colonial/political fantasies.) WWI and WWII destroyed Britain’s economy, and as a result, it’s world dominance. The British Pound was the world’s reserve currency until when? 1963? (I think I heard that the other day.) Now it’s the dollar, but that is in peril; once that happens, the US is Venezuela (not to insult Venezuela). The US after WWII had all the dough and the manufacturing base, much like what China, in its nascent stage, is today. China just has to wait ten years. The decisions made by the Republican house and senate from 1995 to 2006, when they had the power to do and effect otherwise — under Clinton and Bush II — will be viewed by historians as a watershed in American history, when these buffoons gave the country away. The consequences of what they did, aided and abetted by Rahm Emanuel’s marching papers from Goldman and the transnational corporations (read: John Nichols, The Nation), to introduce so-called ‘globalism’ via trade treaties, will be understood to be staggering…but preventable. Sir James Goldsmith tried to warn this country in 1994, but whizz-bangs like Clinton’s economic team scoffed at him.

        The USA could get its mo-jo back, but (1) Americans will not stand for the sacrifice, (2) they aren’t willing to put the protectionism in place that is required, and (3) they don’t understand the problems, the MSM won’t inform them, and the politicians elected to fix the mess are too misinformed, uneducated, and unsophisticated to grasp what must be done. Then there are the Tea-Party idiots….

      • VR
        January 24, 2011, 10:02 am

        Nice post MRW, now you have to ask yourself the question why is all of this taking place globally if there is no money in the US account? Than the only position you can come back to is what I have posted above – it is part of a global design which is funded by nations which need the resources to grow their second pole leg. The US has painted itself as the go-to deliver boys of the global crew. I have posted a number of times on this subject here, have even provided the links to the debriefing – but I know it falls a deaf ears for the most part because here as elsewhere –

        “(3) they don’t understand the problems, the MSM won’t inform them, and the politicians elected to fix the mess are too misinformed, uneducated, and unsophisticated to grasp what must be done. Then there are the Tea-Party idiots….” etc. Whatever…stumble on.

      • lohdennis
        January 24, 2011, 11:07 am

        Perhaps, the differences come from “white people’s” perspective versus “colored” people like me. I’ve witnessed the decline of US dollar going from 360 yen/dollar to 80 yen/dollar. Though hardly on surface, the inferiority complex of “colored” people have correspondingly diminished. The West with its generally declining population base and increasing loss of manufacturing base will follow its own course. China just has to move step at a time, avoiding war and excessive consumerism. The rest will take its natural course. Is it relevant to I-P conflict? Absolutely, Jewish Israel’s existence is completely dependent on US influence and world Jewry. I seriously doubt that Hu Jin Tao cares much about Jewish people any more than over Gabonese.

  21. eee
    January 23, 2011, 11:12 pm

    The Palestinians are just coming to realize how badly they lost the second intifada. Not only was it a military defeat, they also completely lost the goodwill and trust of the Israeli Jews. Now they are paying the price. They have only themselves to blame. Let’s see the Palestinians put forward a better leadership than Hamas and Fatah. I am not going to hold my breath.

    The Palestinians are completely out of options exactly as Agha and Malley document in the NYRB.

    • NorthOfFortyNine
      January 23, 2011, 11:51 pm

      The Palestinians are completely out of options exactly as Agha and Malley document in the NYRB.

      Out of options? Hardly. Consider: Remove the leadership, go limp, and demand the vote.

      eee, you have no idea what you just stepped on….

    • traintosiberia
      January 24, 2011, 12:08 am

      There was no goodwill to lose to begin with. It was the post 911 atmpsphere which was used by isarel to the hilt. That was one of the purpose of the Iraq war as well.
      “never miss a crisis to advance the zionist interest” that is the unspoken word of the modern day talmudic sages.

      • Citizen
        January 24, 2011, 8:39 am

        Exactly.

    • pjdude
      January 24, 2011, 9:22 pm

      Hey @#$%&*^#%^^( sorry need some way to express my rage in a constructive way) how can they have lost something they never had. there was never trust and never goodwill sorry but steal people’s homes is not F*****G good will

  22. Henry Norr
    January 23, 2011, 11:14 pm

    On the media front: The headlines on “All Things Considered” tonight included a fairly long report from Linda Gradstein about the Israeli commission that “investigated” the flotilla attack and concluded that it was all fine (or, as one Haaretz columnist put it today, “We have probed ourselves, and it turns out we were excellent, just as we thought”). NPR.org is giving high play to a story on the same subject on their front page. But not a word about the documents – nothing on ATC (even the late headlines) and so far nothing, even wire-service copy, at npr.org.

  23. Taxi
    January 23, 2011, 11:24 pm

    Has anyone ever read Steinbeck’s ‘The Moon Is Down’?

    It’s amazing that just about all the characters in this book have their equivalence in the I/P conflict – yes including the quislings.

    In less than 200 pages, the human conditions of both the occupied and the occupier are starkly revealed. Steinbeck so ingeniously demonstrates the slow inner-rot that besets the occupier; and how the unconquerable soul of man/woman will relentlessly work to destroy those who deny him/her their yoke of freedom and democracy.

    If memory serves, in the book when the occupied and people of the village discover that their leaders were subservient quislings to the enemy invaders, an armed resistance erupts and the villagers yes manage to push the occupying army off their lands even though their guns are fewer. Because by then, Steinbeck tells us, the moral rot within had taken hold and weakened the faculties and so was really the very reason for the occupier’s downfall.

    Well you may as well read Steinbeck instead of the Wikileak Palestine Papers.

    It’s the same story but a quicker and better read.

    • radii
      January 24, 2011, 1:48 am

      Taxi,

      You have an optimists view that there is a core of humanity inside everyone and that somehow zionist israel can be considered equivalent to Steinbeck’s enemy invaders from the story you mention The Moon Is Down … Steinbeck wrote the piece as propaganda on behalf of the OSS according to Wikipedia but the writer in him gave the invaders a core of basic humanity.

      israel was formed through terror, by mafias and terrorists, and used ethnic-cleansing to force out 700+ thousand people and since has used the most fascistic, brutal methods against the remaining “villagers” with no signs of moral rot weakening their serially-criminal state. In fact, the dehumanizing by the zionist founders of israel to their subsequent generations to the suffering they cause (and the mandatory military service in which young israelis are blooded to desensitize them to the pain they cause) has given us the most horrid generation of israeli youth ever – openly racist, militarist thugs many of them

      • Taxi
        January 24, 2011, 1:41 pm

        radii,
        Don’t underestimate the power of the rot within to destroy not just man himself, but a whole civilization.

        Read the book – it’s not propagandist, but an astute and deep observation of the human condition of both the occupier and the occupied.

  24. bijou
    January 23, 2011, 11:38 pm

    Jonathan Freedland – Now We Know: Israel Had a Peace Partner

    This perspective is interesting: Essentially he says that while the Palestinians stand to lose the most internally (vis a vis their own people) from the expose (because there is a disconnect between what they were willing to compromise on in private vs. what they claimed outwardly), the Israelis will lose almost nothing vis a vis their own constituencies — because they were equally intransigent in private and in public. With regard to international opinion, however, the opposite applies: Palestinians could garner a lot of sympathy from this, and Israel looks like a completely duplicitous spoilsport who just kept lifting the bar higher, higher, and just a bit higher — enough so it simply could never be met.

    What’s more, the documents blow apart what has been a staple of Israeli public diplomacy: the claim that there is no Palestinian partner. That theme, a refrain of Israeli spokesmen on and off for years, is undone by transcripts which show that there is not only a Palestinian partner but one more accommodating than will surely ever appear again.

    • piotr
      January 24, 2011, 1:50 am

      International opinion may still doubt the papers, so additional documentation of the total insanity of Israeli position will be provided shortly by Israeli Foreign Ministry.

      Not only will Lieberman unveil his generous offer, his team will compile the list of all generous gestures of Israel. For example, Israeli banks, including the state owned postal bank are refusing to accept shekels from West Bank Palestinian banks. Or a road repaired under auspices of Fayyad was duly destroyed by IDF. The original Quisling was treated quite OK by Germans. “Brilliant Fayyad plan” was eaten for breakfast.

    • seafoid
      January 24, 2011, 3:59 am

      Jonathan Freedland is the Guardian’s Zionist stenographer.
      Israel had a partner for peace in Arafat. They killed him.

      • MHughes976
        January 24, 2011, 8:02 am

        I suppose that one day that murky business will be cleared up. I’ve always thought that when it came to Arafat’s death the Israelis, to whom Arafat was so subhuman he was almost prehistoric, must have had some partners.

    • Citizen
      January 24, 2011, 8:47 am

      Yeah; it’s like Israel holds the limbo bar; the Palestinian negotiators have to keep going under without falling over or touching the bar, as it goes lower, and lower. The analogy also works if you posit Israel holding a bar, higher and higher for the Palestinian negotiators to reach and hold onto. You could also say the Israelis simply relocate the goal posts everytime the Palestinian football kicker is set to kick. The major point is that Uncle Sam enables this. He’s the bribed referee.

  25. traintosiberia
    January 24, 2011, 12:00 am

    Turning the simple peace process into a melodramatic twisted plot with sub headings and footnote is the main pastime for the Israeli officials when they are not killing the Arabs. It also never fails to generate money from abroad and new military toys from German and US. Why will Israel ever listen ?
    Poor Palestininas! I wonder if these guys were let on in the mystery of Araft;s murder by Israel.

  26. Lydda Four Eight
    January 24, 2011, 1:47 am

    I don’t know how much of a surprise this will be to Palestinians, I remember in 2000 when I was in Gaza my cousins all referred to Arafat instead of Abu Amar they referred to him as Abu H’mar (father of jackass). Palestinians don’t think of him as their leader or father or any of that BS nostalgia.

    Then when I was in Cairo a year later I was talking to a professor who knew people who were at the negotiations at Taba during the Clinton years and this professor told me that the bastard Palestinian negotiators were all lobbying for scholarships to Harvard and visas for their family members (a nephew here someone else there, etc) to study in the USA. Palestinians know their so called leaders are impotent, shameless, greedy opportunists. The whole PA is just window dressing, a facade, a charade to complete the theater of “the Peace Process”. Without this PA facade you’d have Israel obviously annexing land that does not belong to them. You’d have Israel’s PR failure of the 1st Intifada, boys with slingshots against Israeli tanks and modern weapons. With the PA facade you can arm the Palestinians and make them look dangerous and vicious, a threat to Israel, and milk that cow dry. Then Israel went on and annexed more and more land. With the PA at least Israel can go on with the Israeli BS of “There is No Palestinian Peace Partner to Negotiate with … willing to Make Painful Concessions” etc.

    I think the real story is NOT that Palestinian negotiators are useless and an embarrassment to their people. The real story is that Israel has been bloody lying about so much all along. The real story is that Israel always had a “Palestinian Peace Partner” who was more than “Willing to Make Painful Concessions”. The real story is that Israel, and it looks like at many times the USA as well, does not want peace, does not want to end the occupation, does not to put an end to Palestinian suffering. The real story is Israel had a weak, groveling partner/ puppet for peace and still rejected their painful concessions.

    So much for being a light unto the nations. EPIC FAIL ISRAEL.

    What a joke, what a farce, what a mockery of “Never Again.”

    • alyas
      January 24, 2011, 3:33 am

      Well said Lydda. You nailed it on the head. Although I would also say that Palestinians knew all along that Israel has never had, will never have any intention of peace as long as it stands. Peace is an illusion. It will never happen so long as Zionism persists in the Israelis’ psyche.

      I’m bracing myself for the worst to come, but I really do believe that this is the beginning of Israel’s end.

    • Cliff
      January 24, 2011, 7:48 am

      Well said.

      I think we all know much of what you wrote intuitively. The farce of the peace process. The constant raising of the bar by the Israelis concerning an acceptable agreement. The game is rigged.

      • Lydda Four Eight
        January 24, 2011, 12:06 pm

        I agree the game is rigged. Americans need to wake up and realize letting Israel call the shots on a hopeless, imprisoned population is NOT in the interest of America, not in the interests of Americans.

        From the Third Way Blog:
        “The revelations are staggering, largely in that they confirm what most serious analysts have been saying for the past decade: that these negotiations have been futile from the beginning owing to the severe imbalance of power between Israel and the Palestinians and the US’ failure to act as an honest broker.”

        Palestine doesn’t have a chance with the way the power structure has been currently set. It is complete BS. It’s like a psychotic, child abusing parent pretending to negotiate with a desperate, weak, small, gullible 5 year old, pretending to negotiate when really the parent takes pleasure in watching the 5 year old child grovel and suffer.

        Americans, Israelis the Middle East, people of conscience everywhere ought to be up in arms about Israel’s abuse of power. ENOUGH!

  27. seafoid
    January 24, 2011, 3:54 am

    The real story is of enduring Israeli bad faith.
    It is the triumph of the cult of Yesha .
    It is like the biblical story about Aaron and the golden calf.

    WTF is Moses ?

  28. Patrick
    January 24, 2011, 4:03 am

    I think that another consequence of all this is that the American position in the ME will sink to a new low. I think it’s worth recalling that the real purpose of G.W. Bush’s efforts at Annapolis were to forge an anti-Iran coalition among ‘moderate’ Arab states. In only to mollify their own publics, these states demanded of the US that there be a peace process and an end I/P conflict. That process and the US role have now been discredited. With the Tunisian example on their minds, you can bet that ‘moderate’ Arab states will be more inclined to keep their distance from the US.

    • Citizen
      January 24, 2011, 9:01 am

      True, the Arab Street is simmering. The Arab tyrant regimes have to at least pretend to side with the Tunisian uprising, just as, every once in awhile, they have to pretend to side with the Palestinians overtly. What worries the USA and Israel is that the usual charade might get out of hand. From their POV, Iran and BDS don’t help, nor does the resolution at the UNSC door repudiating the illegal Israeli settlements;nor the fact half a dozen S American states have joined the 100 plus nations recognizing a Palestinian state. It’s just possible Obama might abstain from veto at the UNSC? If he had real courage and leadership he’d approve, and go directly to the US masses to explain why. But Dennis Ross and friends will stop that–merely by saying if he does so, he will immediately cut off zionist funding of the Democratic Party, which will all go to the Republicans–along with the US mainstream media.

  29. pjdude
    January 24, 2011, 5:22 am

    when are the palestinians going to learn that giving up rights and claims to their legally owned land will never get peace with Israel

    • WeAreAllMadeOfStars
      January 24, 2011, 6:57 am

      Today … ;-)

    • Cliff
      January 24, 2011, 7:49 am

      eee, would approve of that strategy.

      Give up all your dignity, your rights, your historical legacy – and then MAYBE, you’ll have a shoddy, open-air prison of a State.

      • pjdude
        January 24, 2011, 9:24 pm

        yes he would. when I argue for the palkestinian rights and the need for them to reclaim them homeland for its jewish conquerors I am reminded of the motto emblazened on the banners of the polish legion in italy

        “for your freedom and ours”

  30. Richard Witty
    January 24, 2011, 5:24 am

    If anything, these posts will ingratiate the PA in the eyes of the west, confidently demonstrating that they are willing to sincerely negotiate, and put more pressure on likud to negotiate in earnest.

    The reason that the Barak and Olmert peace efforts failed, was because they were both lame duck 11th hour efforts.

    A 10th hour sincere effort will pass.

    The response to this is rohrshach, prejudicial.

    I hope that the impact of the release itself is NOT that diplomats become unwilling to compromise, or unwilling to document their findings.

    The reasons for the need for states, and for secrecy remains. And, a component of that is the inability of mobs to self-govern. Anarchism is a fraud. It results in a worse application of faddism than governance, led by experts (with accountability in elections, not in fear of every propagandized article.

    • Citizen
      January 24, 2011, 9:13 am

      There is no accountability regarding Israeli activity in American elections.
      It’s not even a subject candidates mention, except when the opposing candidates in certain locations in the USA compete to kiss Israel in public. The solution for the bipartisan PTB in the USA regarding anything Israel is to further defang the FOIA, classify more documents, secretely terrorize dissenters, keep that little army Private whistleblower in isolation and sleepless, and pressure any country to put Wikileaks Boy out of action–and control the internet via new legislation with a cute name conveying the contrary to its real intention, which is not to secure the nation, but to secure the status quo elite’s power.

  31. Richard Witty
    January 24, 2011, 5:48 am

    I’ve started a new blog on Israel/Palestine that I post to once a week only.

    Its my musings, so if you are sick of them here, you will find them redundant there, though you will see my independent thinking, not only in my reaction to ideologs here.

    link to liberalzionism.wordpress.com
    Liberal Zionism – Humanism With a Jewish Soul

    • bijou
      January 24, 2011, 10:11 am

      Another indication that liberal Zionism has died. RW has given up trying to convince anyone here and has jumped ship to a space where he can essentially preserve his view of the world (now completely untenable) by talking to himself!

      I’m being a bit flip but actually I see this as hugely significant. It’s no accident that after years of trying to change views here, he gave up – today. At this moment.

      • annie
        January 24, 2011, 11:11 am

        after years of trying to change views here, he gave up

        wishful thinking bijou?

  32. justicewillprevail
    January 24, 2011, 6:36 am

    Juan Cole highlights the admission of Zippy Livni:

    “Israel takes more land [so] that the Palestinian state will be impossible . . . the Israel policy is to take more and more land day after day and that at the end of the day we’ll say that is impossible, we already have the land and we cannot create the state”. She conceded that it had been “the policy of the government for a really long time”.

    In other words, what we have known all along – there is no peace process, Israel is engaged in making a two state solution impossible. The only thing Palestinians can do now is sue for equal rights and full citizenship of Israel since they have been absorbed into Israel, like it or not. The only alternative to this is the Israeli objective of an apartheid state – one state in which nearly 50% of the population have no rights or freedom.

  33. Richard Witty
    January 24, 2011, 8:07 am

    link to haaretz.com

    The Palestine papers: Al-Jazeera trumps WikiLeaks
    Palestinian documents on Mideast negotiations revealed by Al-Jazeera TV are testimony that the Palestinians are willing to go the distance for peace.
    By Akiva Eldar

    • Citizen
      January 24, 2011, 9:25 am

      Gee, and all this time Israel & Uncle Sam have been telling us the Palestinians have been the road block to peace.

      • annie
        January 24, 2011, 11:00 am

        i’m starting to have a better grasp of what that chatter about abbas and fayyed being the best team they’d ever worked with meant.

      • Lydda Four Eight
        January 24, 2011, 12:11 pm

        yep.

    • annie
      January 24, 2011, 11:08 am

      thanks for the link richard

  34. RepStones
    January 24, 2011, 8:20 am

    The Palestinian Vichy Authority need a Tunisian style party thrown for them. The two state solution is in a Sadducees grave. So where does this leave us…..?

  35. David Samel
    January 24, 2011, 8:41 am

    I heard a story about the documents on CBS radio this morning, in which correspondent Robert Berger stated that they confirm Ehud Olmert’s claim that a peace settlement was at hand but the Palestinians refused to sign! I wish I had been fast enough to record the report verbatim.

  36. Theo
    January 24, 2011, 8:46 am

    There is nothing more despisable than the ones who sells the interests of their own people or nation to a foreign power. I agree with Anne, they all should be put in front of a firing squad! No, they don´t deserve such an honorable death, they should be hanged as murderers are. Hamas, you just made a huge jump in popularity, don´t let those guys get away, deliver justice with extreme prejudice.

    It is a pleasure to see how many liberal jewish americans fight against that apartheid state, but where are the arab-americans?
    There must be at least as many as the jewish ones, why don´t we hear their thunderous NOOO to the policy of our government during the past 60 years!!?? Don´t they care what their cousins suffer at the hands of the israelis and the despots and dictators of other arab states?

    Wikileaks, thank you for giving an example of how to bring light to the dirty works of governments, may you have many followers.
    President Obama, you don´t deserve the Nobel Peace Prize, give it back, because your hand is covered with blood. It should be presented to Mr. Assange who risks everything.

    • Citizen
      January 24, 2011, 9:29 am

      Do you really have to ask why Arab Americans have been silent in this matter? I guess you don’t know any Arab Americans–they’d quickly set you straight in private. Don’t expect them to tell you in a mosque because there are federal spies there.

    • Lydda Four Eight
      January 24, 2011, 12:27 pm

      We are active. Al-Awda, SJP, End the Occupation, and we’ve been active for many years ALEX ODEH ring a bell?

      We’ve been active we just don’t have the money and influence of Haim Saban and other filthy rich Zionists funding our grass roots struggle.

  37. MHughes976
    January 24, 2011, 8:53 am

    A Sadducee’s grave is one from which there is no resurrection? Well, I can see that the PA usurpers must be in some trouble, but they may be able to do what the Tunisian oligarchy has done, ie reconstruct themselves cosmetically – even resurrect themselves as undead zombies – and carry on for a bit.

  38. Taxi
    January 24, 2011, 9:37 am

    And so if Jerusalem is gonna be only jewish, then for the israelis, the Palestinian problem of 5 million people is gonna be a moslem problem of 1.3 billion people. I’ll remind the zionists here that there are some 50 moslim-majority countries in the world they’ll be going up against – FIFTY!

    And how the heck does Apartheid israel intend on going to war AND winning against 1.3 billion people from 5o countries who are all united by their burning desire to FREE JERUSALEM FROM THE ZIONIST GRIP? And who exactly is gonna pay for this super-mega global war?

    Oh yeah that’s right, they’re gonna keep spreading islamophobia in christian countries and get some dumb christians to pay and fight and die on their behalf.

    In other words, israelis, who are mostly european colonialists in the middle east, would rather see you, me and the whole world destroyed than give up their ill gotten home and garden in Jerusalem.

    Well the world ain’t gonna let them. We’ve had worse gangsters in the world and we sure did stop them – at great cost in blood and treasure yes, but we did stop ‘em AND they’re still in the dog-house of history.

  39. Jim Haygood
    January 24, 2011, 9:43 am

    Did anyone study the map of proposed land swaps, at the top of this post? It’s very revealing. Israel wants huge urbanized chunks of the West Bank around east Jerusalem, and north along the Green Line all the way up to Tulkarm (blue-shaded areas).

    In return, Israel offers predominantly rural land in the Jordan Valley along the north and south borders of the West Bank, and a strip along the southeast border of Gaza. Still there is no corridor connecting Gaza and the West Bank into a contiguous entity.

    Although these proposed swaps may be similar in area, the value of the urbanized land which Israel wanted to carve out of the West Bank probably exceeds the value of the remote scrubland it offered to cede by a factor of ten or twenty.

    This is a replay of apartheid South Africa’s strategy — expel blacks from the cities, with their economic opportunity, and rusticate them in remote, poorly-watered districts with marginal land, poor transport connections, and few means of subsistence.

    Palestinians would be nuts to accept this patently unfair deal. Their new leadership needs to stand firm on the UN resolutions asserting the absolute illegality of settlements and occupation, as well as the obligation for Israeli reparations which could well total in the hundreds of billions of dollars.

    What the leaks make clear is that the Palestinians have no peace partner. They should yield nothing, nothing, nothing until they do.

  40. lysias
    January 24, 2011, 11:38 am

    This would appear to confirm what Alan Hart says in Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews, vol. 3 about the willingness of Arafat and Fatah to make real concessions to Israel, even on the right of return for Palestinians.

  41. Theo
    January 24, 2011, 12:22 pm

    How sad, and we call our country the land of the brave and free!
    Chickenhearts!

  42. lysias
    January 24, 2011, 1:43 pm

    “Livni is recorded confirming what Palestinians have always accused Israeli governments of doing: creating facts on the ground to prevent the possibility of a viable Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza.

    At a west Jerusalem meeting in November 2007, she told Qurei that she believed Palestinians saw settlement building as meaning “Israel takes more land [so] that the Palestinian state will be impossible”; that “the Israel policy is to take more and more land day after day and that at the end of the day we’lll say that is impossible, we already have the land and we cannot create the state”. She conceded that had been “the policy of the government for a really long time”.

    Would that “for a really long time” even include the time when Rabin was prime minister?

    • seafoid
      January 24, 2011, 3:18 pm

      Lysias, it would go back as far as 1917. If not 1890.

      Zionism is like capitalism. Growth or death.

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