Ynet reports on two bills passed by the Israeli Knesset in the middle of the night. The Nakba bill was passed at midnight:
The "Nakba bill", proposed by Yisrael Beiteinu, requires the state to fine local authorities and other state-funded bodies for holding events marking the Palestinian Nakba Day...
The second bill, which passed by a majority of 35 to 20, formalizes the establishment of admission committees to review potential residents of Negev and Galilee communities that have fewer than 400 families. It was passed after 2 am.
[Those] rejected by admissions committees [included] a handicapped IDF veteran, Arab and immigrant families, and Jews with Mizrahi roots. The committees turned them down with explanations about "suitability for community life", according to the petition....
After the passing of the bill the Knesset erupted in riots as MK Ahmed Tibi (United Arab List-Ta'al), refusing to limit himself to the comparison of the bill to South Africa's apartheid,mentioned the Wannsee Conference in which the Nazis decided on the Holocaust's "final solution" – or the gassing of Jews.
And it came to pass at midnight.
MK Hanin Zoabi: “The Nakba is a historic truth, not a position or freedom of expression.”
And Zoabi can celebrate it as much as she wants and speak about it as much as she wants.
You’re really off the deep end here, 3e. Same as with the expulsion of Munther Fahmy from the city of his birth. Just keep repeating “Jewish and democratic”.
Is Zoabi permitted or not to speak as much as she wants about the Nakba? Yes or no? Can she commemorate it 24/7? Yes or no?
The “Nakba bill”, proposed by Yisrael Beiteinu, requires the state to fine local authorities and other state-funded bodies for holding events marking the Palestinian Nakba Day–how many “bodies” and “local authorities” are not in any way or any part not state-funded in Israel?
Perhaps the US congress should require our government to fine local authorities and other state-funded bodies for holding events marking The Holocaust? After all its just another historical event, and unlike Nakba Day, Americans had nothing at all to do with it. The saved taxpayer money and continued fine money could be tossed in the pot to save our nation from utter bankruptcy or be added to jobs programs.
How ironic.
Israel outlaws commemoration of the Nakbah, while European countries have outlawed denial of the Holocaust.
Ain’t that a kick in the head?
The bill does not prohibit anyone from commemorating whatever they like including the Nakba. All the bill does is allow the Israeli Treasury to withhold funds from publicly funded institutions that have anti-Israel celebrations. So Avi, go ahead and celebrate the Nakba as much as you like.
And the bill makes a lot of sense. Why should Israel fund celebrations against it?
‘celebrations’? is that what you call commemorating the holocaust? a celebration of it?
So the Nakba is like the Holocaust? Good to know.
Commemorating the Nakba is one thing. Renouncing the Jewish state as part of the process is another. Go ahead and do it. But don’t expect me to fund it.
Renouncing the Jewish state as part of the process is another.
the law does not differentiate wrt to this alleged renouncing.
holding events marking the Palestinian Nakba Day
so what does ‘Commemorating the Nakba is one thing’ mean if you support this law? holding events marking the Nakba is commemorating.
So the Nakba is like the Holocaust? Good to know.
do not play stupid with me. you know exactly what a commemoration for a tragedy is and you also know what denial of tragedy is. are you a nakba denier because it doesn’t meet your holocaust standard?
hypocrite.
Goddamnit eee, you are so dumb.
I encourage everyone to read this exchange between this clown and annie.
This exchange basically sums up eee.
Annie simply says that Palestinians aren’t celebrating a tragedy, just like Jews would not celebrate the Holocaust – also a tragedy.
If I said 9/11 was a tragedy and we should not celebrate, as Jews would not celebrate the Holocaust – would ANY RATIONAL, SINCERE person think I was saying that 9/11 was as bad as the Holocaust?
You are SICK, eee.
hey eee, do you think a school should loose all its funding for having a moment of silence commemorating the destruction of the palestinian homeland, or is that too much for palestinians to ask for? while the whole world is encouraged to commemorate holocaust remembrance non stop for decades (a new holocaust museum coming to your town soon) criminalize a commemorative prayer for palestinians? disgusting.
Schools, municipalities and even the bloody boy scouts.
The Nakba happened. It was and remains an immense tragedy for Palestinians – people killed, hundreds of thousands made homeless, families torn apart, communities and indeed an entire society shattered. That Zionists feel uncomfortable with this is understandable, but the “I’m not going to fund it” argument is not only disingenuous (a pitiful excuse for chauvinism, censorship and historical revisionism), it is outrageous considering the fact that Palestinian Israelis are forced to fund their own discrimination, oppression and dispossession – and the ceremonies that joyously mark these tragic events and policies.
These two laws are simply further evidence of the second-class citizenship of Palestinian Israelis (Phil got it right in the headline). BDS.
Annie,
Let me explain to you this point again. If an Israeli school bemoans the creation of Palestinian refugees that is fine. If it bemoans the creation of the state of Israel, it should not be funded. Do you really think Israelis are that dumb that we should fund people that don’t want us to exist?
according to jpost
who defines ‘racism against israel’ eee? some people consider those who don’t support zionism as practicing ‘racism against jews’ for denying them their self determination? you know that right?
Shmuel,
You are wrong. If the Palestinians want to commemorate the refugee creation, while emphasizing that they are not also against Israel, nobody will do anything to them. The law does not apply in that case. But if the Nakba commemoration is used also as a protest against Israel as a Jewish state, then it will not be funded. Why does the state have to fund demonstrations against it??? Only in a very twisted mind does this sound reasonable.
Annie,
In the end, the Israeli supreme court will have the last say on what that means exactly.
Last time I was in Israel, I came across a book about the Nakba and Palestinian history after ’48, written by a Jewish Israeli. I was struck by one line in the blurb on the back cover: “The Nakba – as Palestinians refer to the establishment of the State of Israel”.
The Nakba is not what Palestinians call the establishment of the State of Israel. It is what they call the destruction of their own communities, families and lives. It is Israel that has made it a zero sum game, continuing to deny them their rights and even their memories.
Shmuel,
Come on, based on anecdotal evidence you reach the conclusion that Israel has made it a zero sum game?
In any case, the law is quite clear in that it makes it a non-zero sum game. One can commemorate the Nakba without bemoaning the creation of Israel and get government funding.
“The Nakba is not what Palestinians call the establishment of the State of Israel. It is what they call the destruction of their own communities, families and lives.”
But to those aflicted with that potent pathological brew of narcicism, bigotry and paranoia which is Zionism, it’s ALWAYS about Israel.
‘in the end’ how many of these potential cases are even going to make their way to the supreme court?
If the Palestinians want to commemorate the refugee creation, while emphasizing that they are not also against Israel, nobody will do anything to them. The law does not apply in that case.
This is incorrect. According to the law, if there is ANY commemoration of the Nakba by a publicly funded group on May 14th, regardless of intent or content, the funding will be severely cut.
Eee, not exactly, since Jews caused the Nakba and Germans caused the Holocaust. Similar in that both think and thought they had to do what they had to do for blood & soil, for lebensraum, for “survival.” The other difference is that nobody can gas their enemies today and get away with it; they can only be penned in, and put on a full-spectrum diet, and dispossessed of their home and land–or rather, one country can do this: Israel
This one exception is directly due to The Israel Lobby and our elected leaders & wannabees who play ball with that Lobby for their own short term agendas.
The Israeli supreme court is not supreme as the US Supreme Court is; the Israeli high court rulings are often ignored by the other branches of government without any consequences; this has been discussed before in great detail on this blog. Israel does not even have a written constitution as a litmus test; it’s basic laws themselves often conflict with Israeli judicial rulings and Israeli legislation. When it came time by Israel’s own lights to install a constitution Israel kicked the can down the road & there’s absolutely no sign the can will stop being so kicked. If memory serves, there’s now only two other states without any written constitution: England and New Zealand. Their respective civil rights de jure and de facto have not the slightest smell of apartheid division, most especially when compared to Israel’s.
>> Why should Israel fund celebrations against it?
Only a Zio-supremacist would consider the commemoration of a tragedy that is part of Israel’s history to be a “celebration against it”.
Sounds like someone is using “common sense” again…
Why should the US fund celebrations regarding history that make it look bad? Because its not a racist, ethnocentric society like Israel or Japan. You think the Japanese are taught about what Imperial Japan did to China?
>> Israel outlaws commemoration of the Nakbah, while European countries have outlawed denial of the Holocaust.
As the Zio-supremacists point out, “the PRESENT is what matter.”*
(*But don’t forget to “Remember the Holocaust!”)
‘As the Zio-supremacists point out, “the PRESENT is what matter.”’
But they never give any presents. They only take them.
What’s next on the Zionists’ agenda, compulsory identifying dress code for Palestinian-Israelis? No wonder they are constantly compared to Nazis. Maybe there will be a law outlawing comparisons between Israelis and Nazis
The Israeli/Nazi comparison is considered antisemitic in the EUs working definition of antisemitism.
How many Jews did Nazi Germany have on their supreme court? How many Jews were in their legislator? This comparison is nothing more than antisemitism.
“The Israeli/Nazi comparison is considered antisemitic in the EUs working definition of antisemitism. ”
Stupid definition, no doubt pushed through by interested parties.
“This comparison is nothing more than antisemitism.”
What is antisemitic about it? Please explain.
DBG, OTAH, the first African American elected to public office was as a state legislator, serving in the Vermont General Assembly. The date was 1836. Others came after, increasing black representation in both federal and state governments–but Jim Crow was very much alive and kicking as late as the earlier 1960′s.
And, how effective have these token Arab Israeli reps been considering all the instutionalized discrimination under the myriad of Israeli laws?
Nobody says Israel is exactly like Nazi Germany was. Nor exactly like apartheid S Africa was. The analogies are not always on all four legs, just two or three of them–enough for rational people to be very concerned about. If the analogy is to a ladder, how many rungs up should the burglar go before we should be concerned?
RoHa ~ as DBG correctly states, it’s only a working definition. Issued in 2005, it still hasn’t been recommended to member states for adoption and will likely never be, because parts of it are so obviously tilted towards helping Israel and not jews.
This part of the definition has proved highly contentious and is seen by many as attempting to proscribe legitimate criticism of the human rights record of the Israeli Government by attempting to bring any criticism of Israel into the category of antisemitism, and as not sufficiently distinguishing between criticism of Israeli actions and criticism of Zionism as a political ideology, on the one hand, and racially based violence towards, discrimination against, or abuse of, Jews.[12][13] Sociologist Paul Igansky[14] points out that parallels between Israeli policy and those of the Nazis are “arguably not intrinsically antisemitic”, and that the context in which they are made is critical.
[EU] Fundamental Rights Agency: Report – Working Definition of Antisemitism
Israel’s Latest Apartheid Law By ILAN PAPPÉ
If we look back on the succession of events that started in 1948 and today’s new law, the Zionists’ lurid history reads more like the Nazis’ than South Africa’s apartheid.
drip drip drip
tick tock tick tock
According to the link to Ynet in Weiss’ post THIS is what the bill says…….
+++++++The “Nakba bill”, proposed by Yisrael Beiteinu, requires the state to fine local authorities and other state-funded bodies for holding events marking the Palestinian Nakba Day BY SUPPORTING ARMED RESISTANCE OR RACISM AGAINST ISRAEL, OR DESECRATING THE STATE FLAG OF OTHER SYMBOLS.++++++
That reads a lot differently than a ban on commemorating the Nabka and I would ask Weiss why he only ran the first half of the sentence?
Why not quote the full sentence?
Why not?
Because Phil is in the business of incitement for some reason. I really don’t get how that serves any of his goals.
“Phil is in the business of incitement for some reason.”
’tis probably a reaction to all the war crimes and crimes against humanity you people commit.
BY SUPPORTING ARMED RESISTANCE OR RACISM AGAINST ISRAEL, OR DESECRATING THE STATE FLAG OF OTHER SYMBOLS.
and what else? do you think there is a possibility you are doing what you are accusing phil of doing?
holding events marking Israeli Independence Day as the “Nakba” (“catastrophe” in Arabic) or for supporting armed resistance or racism against Israel.
and who do you think defines that? don’t cherry pick ‘supporting armed resistance’ and leave out the much more nebulous clause likely to be used to prosecute.
oh, i just realized your capitol letters do scream out racism against israel. still my point remains. it’s a nebulous distinction and could be used to indiscriminately. i don’t know how any self described lefty or progressive could support curtailing freedom of speech in an alleged ‘democracy’.
annie,
The Ynet article doesn’t say
—-holding events marking Israeli Independence Day as the “Nakba” (“catastrophe” in Arabic) or for supporting armed resistance or racism against Israel.—–
OR FOR annie it says celebrating BY supporting armed resistance.
not either separate thing, but celebrating by linking the catastrophe to armed resistance etc.
annie, you might read up on the law in this country…
historically, there’s been legal disapproval of those advocating the armed overthrow of our government.
i am missing your point. your 12:15 pm post and the jpost article i linked to both say ‘or racism against israel’.
BY supporting armed resistance.
But that’s not what the law says. See my post at 2:00 pm, below.
This is another of your false alarms, frog, The second half is not mentioned by Phil because it is as redundant as would a law telling you that you can commemorate the holocaust but you cannot mention, refer, allude, imply, hint, depict, illustrate, insinuate, suggest or any other of those things about the Nazis during the commemoration.
Why is it that I feel I’m regressing whenever I address you or the other Zionists here? I lost what little enjoyment I had dialoguing with you clowns when I saw you cheering the Gholem bitch that takes satisfaction at mocking the death of Rachel Corrie.
>> According to the link to Ynet in Weiss’ post THIS is what the bill says…….
>>”The ‘Nakba bill’ … requires the state to fine local authorities and other state-funded bodies for holding events marking the Palestinian Nakba Day by supporting armed resistance or racism against Israel … ”
>> That reads a lot differently than a ban on commemorating the Nabka …
1. The headline for this thread says nothing about banning the Nakba.
2. The two sentences written by Phil say nothing about banning the Nakba.
3. The excerpt quoted by Phil says nothing about banning the Nakba.
So much for your feigned indignation.
I’m curious to know what criteria will be used to define “supporting racism against Israel” in the course of commemorating the Nakba, and who will be in charge of assessing whether or not a particular action meets any of these criteria.
For example, will speaking the truth about the atrocities committed by Israeli forces and Zio-supremacist terrorists constitute “supporting racism against Israel”? Will truth be considered subversive and punishable by fines?
no, Walid, the second half of the sentence is far from redundant. It’s entirely central to the law’s stated intent and is the definition of the actions necessary to the transgression of the law and to warrant the financial penalty that the law provides.
As far as the what is quoted in the link, the law doesn’t penalize mentioning or teaching about the Nabka, it provides financial penalties only for things beyond that.
Walid, if you can back up that untruth about my joining in mocking the death of Rachel Corrie, I would be much surprised. I think that you can not because you’re either mistaken or lying.
Please DO print something from me mocking Rachel Corrie or print a retraction.
I have great respect for that poor dead woman and her family and do not appreciate your slur.
I didn’t mean that you personally mocked her death but 2 of you cheered when Gholem posted here that the “stupid red-haired girl that tried to stop a bulldozer with her face”. I know Hophni was one of them and if you didn’t cheer Rachel Gholem’s sick post, I take it back and apologize to you.
I greatly appreciate that, Walid.
but please, in future, extend me the courtesy of not thinking that there are “2 of you” when it comes to myself.
I’m screwy enough by myself and don’t think that I represent anyone but myself.
But again, thank you.
>> As far as the what is quoted in the link, the law doesn’t penalize mentioning or teaching about the Nabka, it provides financial penalties only for things beyond that.
According to the linked-to article, “The ‘Nakba bill’ … requires the state to fine local authorities and other state-funded bodies for holding events marking the Palestinian Nakba Day by supporting armed resistance or racism against Israel … ”
Please explain how you know that any/some/all elements pertaining to “mentioning or teaching about the Nakba” – such as, for example, discussing Jewish terrorism and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians by Israeli forces – won’t be considered “racism against Israel”.
Thanks.
eljay, I can ‘t tell how the law won’t be used or how it will.
it’s not something that I like but I’m not going to going to be more than suspicious until stuff happens.
read this and get back to me, tell me how you think the Israeli bill compares.
link to huffingtonpost.com
don’t think you can pull one over on us. the date on that is 08/31/09 and hamas made that decision in a tit for tat AFTER israel’s education minister pulled any history of the nakba from israeli school books. that happened BEFORE hamas decided to act in like kind.
maybe mc head-in-the clouds can lecture you about context
i hear some crickets. i wonder why a certain frog isn’t rushing over to munch on them.
He’s busy on another thread insisting that the protestors in Bahrain might be just as culpable for violence as the US-backed military regime.
>> eljay, I can ‘t tell how the law won’t be used or how it will.
And yet, today at 1:45 pm, you *were* able to say “the law doesn’t penalize mentioning or teaching about the Nabka, it provides financial penalties only for things beyond that.” So, how do you know this?
>> read this and get back to me, tell me how you think the Israeli bill compares.
Why? What does that have to do with Israel potentially fining people or groups for speaking truth about the Nakba? When Palestine is its own country, should a bill be passed which will permit the fining of people or groups for commemorating tragedies, I will speak out against it. Until then, this is nothing but deflection.
I keep thinking that maybe you’re better than this, but you continue to prove me wrong.
The way the language reads, fuster (“get there fustest with the leastest”), virtually any event marking Nakba Day can and will be interpreted to mean supporting “racism against Israel.” Even if the event sports an official non-violent stance and no Israeli flag is descrated in any way, supporting “racism” against the state is vague enough to shut down and/or defund or fine any event marking historical Nakba. Simply having an old eye witness or history professor detail the events constituting the Nakba would be enough to satisfy this vague law (especially sans any written Israeli Constitution to be interpreted otherwise)–the enforcers could simply say the event, its speakers, or the audience was not/or woild not be legal as no or insufficient “context” was entertained.
Good for Ahmed Tibi. Someone aught to speak truth to the bigots.
There seems to be some (wishful) confusion about what the law actually says.
Funding will be withdrawn for any of the following 5 reasons:
Source (Hebrew): link to knesset.gov.il
Article 4 is what Phil and others have been referring to here. It is enough simply to mark the 14th of May (Nakba Day) – not even celebrated as Independence Day in Israel (which follows the Hebrew calendar) – as a day of mourning. Simply mourning Palestinian suffering on that day could lose a school or a municipality 10 times the amount spent or half their total funding. Jewish and democratic. Right.
Shmuel,
What confusion? The Nakba was a process that did not begin on 14th May 1948 nor end that day. So, why commemorate it on that day except to also make a point against the existence of Israel? What is the big problem commemorating the Nakba on the 13th of May or perhaps on the date Dir Yassin happened or the date Lod and Ramla were taken? Israel is Jewish and democratic but not stupid.
First a correction: 15 (not 14) May.
Second, you’re really stretching here. There is no day more significant for the Palestinian catastrophe than 15 May. The expulsion efforts redoubled after the Israeli declaration of independence; it is the date that marks the block of return, the date on which the internal refugees (“present absentees”) were created, and the date on which Palestinians in Israel-held territory ceased to be Palestinian citizens and became second class citizens in a “foreign” land. You are being decidedly undemocratic, mean-spirited and, as long as you brought it up, colossally stupid. As for “Jewish” – only in the eyes of Zionists and anti-Semites.
Wow! What nonsense. The expulsions had nothing to do with the declaration of Israel as a state. Where did you find that information? The Palestinians in Israel choose this arbitrary day to spite Israel. No problem, but why should Israel fund such activities? Why not November 29, the day partition was approved and the civil war began and Arabs began leaving their homes?
Being democratic does not mean being stupid. Israel should not fund ceremonies aimed at destroying it. Israel is Jewish and democratic but again, not stupid.
Shmuel explained to you exactly why.
On May 15, 1948, British troops withdrew from Palestine. That was the date the Mandate was set to expire. Once British forces withdrew, Zionist Haganah forces moved in and took over. In Haifa for example, Palestinians were put on ships that very day after the city was evacuated of Arabs. They became refugees overnight.
That’s blatant historical revisionism.
The claim that there was a civil war is Israeli propaganda. It was refuted numerous times on this very website, but you continue to peddle the same lies.
Read Simha Flapan’s book The Birth of Israel: Myth and Realities.
In fact, Zionist leaders met up a couple of weeks after the Partition Plan was ratified at the UN. They expressed concern over the fact that Palestinians were not responding violently to the Partition Plan. Zionists were in a quandary, how will they respond to non-violence with violence and still maintain legitimacy?
Here’s a post from November 28, 2010.
And here is a list of the Ethnic Cleansing operations carried out by Zionist forces BEFORE any Arab army ‘attacked’ Israel.
Between December 1947 – May 15, 1948
Operation Ben-Ami
Operation Mishmar Ha-Emek
Operation Chametz (Hebrew for Sour)
Operation Barak
Operation Nachshon
Operation Har’el
Operation Maccabi
Operation Yevussi
Operation Shfiffon (Hebrew for Pseudocerastes, i.e. Viper snake)
Operation Pitchfork
See this link for more…
to spite Israel
Yes, they fled their homes out of spite, refused to come back to them out of spite, have their land expropriated out of spite,want better housing in Jews-only settlements or areas designated for “Judaization” – out of spite, receive less funding out of spite, live apart from spouses denied even residency in Israel – out of spite, remember their destroyed communities and families and lives out of spite, care that their friends and relatives over the green line are denied basic human rights, stolen from and killed with impunity every day – out of spite. They remember their tragedy on the day the British left because they just can’t stand (some) Jews being happy. Nothing else of any note happened on that day.
What a small, self-centred, mean little world you live in, 3e.
Thanks, Avi.
he is a megalomaniac
eee, the world does not revolve around you, other people have suffered and to say the Palestinians’ remembrance of their own historical tragedy is simply to spite Israel is a perfect example of Zionist delusion
get medical help, you need it
Here’s some typical Palestinian spite:
This story is by: Oudeh Basharat
link to haaretz.com
eee
egad ersatz ego
“The Nakba was a process that did not begin on 14th May 1948 nor end that day.”
You’re right, for once! It started long before then, and is still going on.
Thanks, Shmuel, for the link and iteration to the actual wording of the law.
A true democracy would be strong and “vibrant” enough to have its citizens commemorate and mourn a wrong action taken by its government without resorting to state punishment.
A true democracy would be strong and “vibrant” enough to have its citizens commemorate and mourn a wrong action taken by its government without resorting to state punishment.
Absolutely, tree. A true democracy would, in fact, commemorate the Nakba as a significant event for all its citizens – and make amends for it, rather than trying to suppress and revise history.
Amen. And thanks to annie, too, for reminding us that Israel does not allow the teaching of the Nakba in Israeli schools.
I’ve always thought that one of the US democracy’s strongest points was our ability to recognize and teach about the bad things we have done as well as the good. We still have farther to go, and it would be a great improvement if we would recognize bad actions BEFORE we did them rather than 30 years later, but it is a huge falsity to claim that Israel and the US have “shared values” on this point.
thank you shmuel