Born in Jerusalem, a Palestinian bookstore owner is stripped of his ‘residency’ and may soon be deported

on 85 Comments

Editor’s note: A petition campaign has begun on behalf of Munther Fahmy, who runs the book store at the American Colony Hotel in occupied East Jerusalem. Israel is seeking to deport him. Fahmy sent us the following note about his case:

I was born in Jerusalem in 1954 and therefore when the Israelis had conquered Jerusalem in 1967, I was given, as the rest of the Arab population in East Jerusalem, an Israeli ID resident card. In 1975 I left Jerusalem to continue my university education in the USA. Graduation, starting a business, marriage, having a child years later in 1994-95 and intoxicated with prospects of peace after the signing of the Oslo agreement, I flew home and was told at the airport in Tel-Aviv that my Jerusalem ID was revoked and the only way I could enter then was as a tourist on my US passport..which I reluctantly did and continued to do as I thought there was no other way to reinstate my residency.

The Israelis started giving me a hard time entering and leaving the country as a tourist 2 years ago, and especially last month, when I was told that the next time I will be allowed to reenter the country, after this current tourist visa expires on April 3rd, is next year in April for 3 months only during that entire year. I then started legal proceedings to re-capture my ID card back. A lawyer later told me that I was lied to in 1995 when I arrived– my Israeli blue ID card was valid till it was finally revoked in 2002 while I was going and coming as a tourist!! 

So, a year ago we took the Interior Ministry to court to reinstate my residency status and I lost because they invoked a racist law they have on the books which strips any resident of Jerusalem (all residents of Jerusalem who holds ID cards are Arabs, Jews in Jerusalem and everywhere in Israel are citizens) who left Jerusalem for 7 years or more and holds a foreign passport of his or her blue Israeli residency ID card and right to live there.

So, I appealed to the Supreme Court and after 4 postponement of the court date in the last year, in which I needed to leave and come back to renew my tourist visa several times, be at the mercy of the passport control people every time wondering if I will be allowed to enter and if allowed to enter wondering for how long they will allow me to stay, the Supreme Court date was set for Feb 17 this year.

On that day, my request was rejected in the first minute of the session! To add insult to injury, I was told to consider myself lucky that I was allowed to come and go as a tourist that long and even dare to start a business while I am a tourist, and then finally saying that “if this happens in YOUR country the USA, you would be deported on the first plane” . Unfortunately, the session was in Hebrew and I was not privy to this remark by the judge until the end of the session. I would have loved to remind the judges that people born in the USA don’t have to go to the Supreme Court to ask it to intervene with the Immigration authorities to let them live in their country of birth!

The last insult was that I should write a letter within 30 days from Feb 17 2011 “begging” the Interior Ministry (the one I am suing!) to please reinstate my residency!

Anyway, my lawyer sent the letter on March 17 and if the interior ministry rejects it, which we are almost certain of, I will be deported when I exceed my tourist visa on April 3rd.

85 Responses

  1. annie
    March 22, 2011, 11:00 am

    you are being ethnically cleansed from your home. they won’t stop, it is like an israeli addiction or something. it’s gruesome. i am so sorry for you and cannot imagine what this must be like to be forced from your home, friends and livelihood. i will sign this petition.

    • seafoid
      March 22, 2011, 12:15 pm

      BDS is the most honorable response. It is non violent (and they are so afraid of it).

  2. Woody Tanaka
    March 22, 2011, 11:03 am

    The shame is that in any decent state, the judiciary is there to protect justice. In Israel, it is another terror tool.

    • Shingo
      March 22, 2011, 3:11 pm

      In Israel, it is another terror tool.

      Yes, Israel is becoming a totalitarian state .

      • seafoid
        March 22, 2011, 6:25 pm

        link to

        The difference between totalitarian government propaganda and the democratic kind is that the former has a monopoly on truth; its version of reality cannot be challenged. Past, present, and future are what the rulers say they are. Which is why, from the official point of view, there is no stigma attached to the word “propaganda” in totalitarian societies. Nazi Germany had a Ministry of Volk Enlightenment and Propaganda, and the Soviet Union a Department for Agitation and Propaganda.
        One can be arrested for exposing official lies in democracies, but the chances of that happening are a great deal slimmer than under dictatorships, where the fate of whistle-blowers and naysayers is often far worse than jail.

  3. seafoid
    March 22, 2011, 11:10 am

    Above all they target the intellectuals and those who build bridges between Jews and Arabs.

  4. Potsherd2
    March 22, 2011, 11:13 am

    The Israeli UN delegation is frothing at Richard Falk for declaring that Israel practices ethnic cleansing. link to

    Looks like Yaar needs to read his own state’s laws.

  5. Taxi
    March 22, 2011, 11:13 am

    Take all you want israel – you ain’t keeping ANY of it for long anywayz.

    I predict that overnight, you’ll be emptied out and your criminal leaders will be hunted down around the globe.

    • seafoid
      March 22, 2011, 11:46 am

      I think it will start with an attack by financial speculators.

  6. bijou
    March 22, 2011, 11:30 am

    Is there any other country in the world that punishes its residents/citizens for getting an education abroad? What a travesty. What a sick, sick state of affairs. Outside of this warped alternate reality, Munther Fahmy should have been considered a valuable asset to his country.

    The thing we need to realize is, Munther Fahmy’s story is so common that it’s much more the norm than the exception. Don’t harbor the illusion that this is an extreme case. It’s not. It happens every day, probably every hour, to those who have the misfortune to find themselves as non-Jews living under the authority of the Jewish state.

    And how about we compare this with the case of a Jew from Jerusalem who did the EXACT same thing – went to study abroad… do you think he would lose his residency? No way… he would be given extra special financial incentives to entice him to return. And his status would never have been in jeopardy in the first place.

  7. Saleema
    March 22, 2011, 11:52 am

    I see now why a Jewish state is “necessary,” “a good” and “here to stay” in the words of Witty.


    One day we will read books about the history of Isreal and hypothesize why it didn’t survive. Inshallah.

  8. Charltonr
    March 22, 2011, 12:02 pm

    This is especially unconscionable. Everyone who has ever stayed at the American Colony goes to Munther’s bookstore. I was a customer several times 1999-2000. The American Colony is the only international (not just Americans or Arabs or Muslims) hotel for everyone who doesn’t want to or can’t stay at the King David Hotel. Munther’s store is integral to the hotel — part of what makes the American Colony an essential place for many to stay. Faugh!

    • James North
      March 22, 2011, 12:11 pm

      Please don’t forget the Jerusalem Hotel, south of the American Colony closer to the Damascus Gate. It is run by excellent Palestinian people, and is clean, attractive, and more economical than the American Colony.

      • seafoid
        March 22, 2011, 12:19 pm

        I love the Jerusalem Hotel. It is such a special place and they speak arabic , and talking to them in arabic is like a victory for decency over ignorance.

  9. eee
    March 22, 2011, 12:15 pm

    All Fahmy had to do was apply for Israeli citizenship after 1967. He refused to do so, why? He doesn’t say. Instead he choose to stay with what is similar to a green card in the US. In the US also, if you don’t live in the US, your green card is taken from you after some time.

    It is solely his fault that he finds himself in this situation. He should have applied for Israeli citizenship while living in Jerusalem and would have almost automatically been granted one.

    • seafoid
      March 22, 2011, 12:25 pm

      The first act in the binational parliament will be the Law of Return for Palestinians and that will be the end of Jewish privilege in Israel/Palestine.

    • Chaos4700
      March 22, 2011, 12:34 pm

      How many non-Jews have received Israeli citizenship after 1967, fuster? Did your ancestors ever have to apply for Palestinian citizenship before 1948?

      • DBG
        March 22, 2011, 5:13 pm


        There was no Palestine before 1948, what are you talking about? You know that the West Bank and Gaza were occupied by Jordan/Egypt before 1967 right? All of Palestine was occupied by the British before that, and before the Ottomans. Hamas’ control of Gaza and Fatah’s of the WB is the closest things to sovereignty those areas EVER had.

      • Shingo
        March 22, 2011, 7:05 pm

        There was no Palestine before 1948, what are you talking about?

        What then was the League of Nations referring to hwen they talked about a Jewish homeland in Palestine in 1920? And how come there are maps from 100 BC of Palestine?

        You know that the West Bank and Gaza were occupied by Jordan/Egypt before 1967 right?

        And part of Palestine nonetheless.

    • Woody Tanaka
      March 22, 2011, 12:43 pm

      False comparison. The last time the US conquered land (from Mexico) the people within that land had one year to decide if they wanted to stay Mexican citizens or to become US citizens. Those who took no affirmative steps were automatically made US citizens. They were not given green cards, they became citizens.

      The Israelis, of course, gave the native Palestinians no such choice.

      • eee
        March 22, 2011, 12:47 pm

        You are of course wrong, when it comes to East Jerusalem. The Palestinians were given the choice of becoming citizens. They chose not to accept. Bad choice by them.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 12:53 pm

        Oh, my, yes it was so bad for the French Palestinians not to accept German Israeli citizenship. Live with it! Those camps aren’t so very bad, are they?

      • Woody Tanaka
        March 22, 2011, 1:00 pm

        No, I am not wrong. The only way it would be comparable would be if Israeli, as the default, granted citizenship to all the Arabs in the occupied territories absent a specific act by those Arabs. But that would eliminate the Zio-fantasy of an ethnically pure fatherland, so they didn’t do it; for the Arabs in Arab East Jerusalem or the West Bank and Gaza portions of Occupied Palestine.

      • fuster
        March 22, 2011, 1:13 pm

        eee, it may be a bad choice, but it’s theirs to make. those that refuse to be citizens are screwed over and driven out of the place where they were born. it’s immoral and violative and ugly.

      • fuster
        March 22, 2011, 1:14 pm

        Chaos, you would love those camps. you would be very popular and fit right in.

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 1:25 pm

        it may be a bad choice, but it’s theirs to make.

        are you sure? did you read the whole article?

        I flew home and was told at the airport in Tel-Aviv that my Jerusalem ID was revoked and the only way I could enter then was as a tourist on my US passport..which I reluctantly did and continued to do as I thought there was no other way to reinstate my residency.

        A lawyer later told me that I was lied to in 1995 when I arrived– my Israeli blue ID card was valid till it was finally revoked in 2002 while I was going and coming as a tourist!!

        do you think it might be possible people were not given full information or correct information until after it was too late? i’ve encountered these kinds of situation when traveling, like in india. where every option i was told to go somewhere else and things were delayed and delayed and i couldn’t get my problem remedied. til i was finally informed i would have to pay a (massive) fee. i’ve had similar experiences with authorities in mexico. don’t you think it is possible these laws were designed to ethnically cleanse the land and therefore might be logistically challenging as well as morally challenging?

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 1:27 pm

        It isn’t a choice, fuster. Israel has an obligation under international law — under the Geneva Conventions! — to NOT STRIP PEOPLE OF THEIR CITIZENSHIP AND DRIVE THEM FROM THEIR HOMES.

        Seriously. Why do you freaks want to do to Palestinians what Nazis did to your ancestors! “Ya, schade… Oh vell, ve gave zhem a chance to make zhemselves useful to zhe Reich!”

        Seriously, you Zionists are monsters. All of you.

      • fuster
        March 22, 2011, 1:29 pm

        annie, I think that the discrimination against, and expulsion o,f the Arab non-citizens from Jerusalem has been a matter of long standing and that they fully know that leaving town means that they may not be allowed back in.

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 2:07 pm

        it’s a matter of longstanding now but that’s not my impression wrt when the policy was first implemented. and because a policy is longstanding still doesn’t make it legal.

      • fuster
        March 22, 2011, 2:15 pm

        annie, I started out calling it……..
        ” immoral and violative and ugly.”

        it may well in some sense be legal, but I don’t really give a crap if it is.

        the design is to insure that Jerusalem will be populated (more than 2/3s) with citizens of Israel.

      • Shingo
        March 22, 2011, 2:59 pm

        You are of course wrong, when it comes to East Jerusalem. The Palestinians were given the choice of becoming citizens.

        East Jeeusalem is not Israel, so why should he apply for Israeli citizenship?

        Are you suggesting that Jordan was justifies in ethnically cleansing the West Bank and Jerusalem if Jews because they were nit Jordanian? Should all Israelis in the settlements be deported for not being Pdlestinian citizens?

      • eee
        March 22, 2011, 3:20 pm


        If you look at every little element in a war, all by itself it is quite ugly. But compared to the tactics used by the Palestinians in the second intifada, this one is quite humane. There is a war between two nations for a small piece of land. We either reach a compromise by negotiations or we fight. I prefer the first but will not be deterred to keep fighting by hypocritical criticism.

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 3:41 pm

        We either reach a compromise by negotiations or we fight.

        the kind of fight where the big brave israelis carpet bomb with their american funded war machines and the palestinians have some rocks?

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 3:45 pm

        Didn’t someone else say something else with regards to taking land by force of arms and punishing the unworthy by stripping them of their property and rights? Oh…. that’s right.

        So much for “Never Again.”

      • fuster
        March 22, 2011, 3:49 pm

        eee, this wasn’t a tactic of a war. it wasn’t a part of anything.
        of course, it’s not unique and yes, there have been worse things done, but it was gratuitous cruelty and unvarnished ugliness.
        the people who did it should be paid in their own coin.

        the child and his horse posed no threat to anyone and the [email protected] settlers never stop stealing the water.

      • eee
        March 22, 2011, 4:12 pm


        I was talking about the residency permits. I agree about the horse killing.

        Don’t generalize. Some settlers steal water, not all of them.

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 4:14 pm

        when it comes to East Jerusalem. The Palestinians were given the choice of becoming citizens.

        you are wrong wrong wrong. March 22 2011|Yossi Gurvitz: Military Intelligence monitors “de-legitimization”

        Now, any balanced, detached onlooker, being asked to explain why Israel is getting such a bad press, would answer concisely: Because of your apartheid regime. For 44 years, Israel maintains a regime which grants superior rights to a chosen people, while granting lesser rights to Palestinians residing in Israel (who hold Israeli citizenship but are deprived of rights and equal power by various methods, some legal, some informal); even less rights to Palestinians residing in Eastern Jerusalem (who are considered residents only, and whose residency is often revoked), and those Palestinians living in the West Bank and until recently the Gaza Strip were systematically denied their rights.
        This apartheid (Hafrada, in Hebrew; separation) policy is accompanied by a vast emigration of population into the territories Israel has officially refrained from annexing, under the publicly-stated goal of depriving Palestinians of their lands and preventing a peace which will force a withdrawal of Israeli troops and settlers back to the 1949 borders. Until recently, Israel managed to delude the world into thinking that the 44-years old occupation is only temporary; the blinkers having been removed from its eyes, the world is somewhat upset. And, in addition to all this, Israel is officially the country of only a minority of the residents between the sea and the river. It is officially a Jewish state. As such, it cannot be democratic.
        So if AMAN-Research wants to find the guilty parties in the “de-legitimization” of Israel, it ought to have pointed a finger at every Israeli government since 1967, and to a lesser extent those in office since 1948. One assumes this is not likely to happen any time soon, and that a military intelligence organ will soon join the choir screaming that anyone saying anything nasty about us wants us destroyed.

        get it? palestinians in EJ were never offered citizenship, only residency status. they are not citizens of any country even tho some of them were born in palestine before the state of israel was even founded.

        wake up!

      • Woody Tanaka
        March 22, 2011, 4:23 pm

        “Don’t generalize. Some settlers steal water, not all of them.”

        Yeah, the others just steal land.

      • fuster
        March 22, 2011, 4:33 pm

        eee, the taking of the water is general and overseen by the administration. generalization is fitting.

      • Cliff
        March 22, 2011, 4:38 pm

        Settlers steal water. They steal land. All in all, none of them belong in the occupied territories. They are all illegal settlers and are criminals. And it’s not surprising that you, a racist and Jewish supremacist (with delusions of grandeur) would defend them.

      • ToivoS
        March 22, 2011, 6:06 pm

        The theft of water from the WB aquifer is official state policy. Denial of that water to Palestinians is routine. They are allowed a small ration (1/5 the amount that is given to Jews). That is an undeniable fact.

        Now the issue here is that the settlers were trying to deprive the Palestinians of their ration.

      • fuster
        March 22, 2011, 7:59 pm

        the last time that the US conquered land, it wasn’t from Mexico, Woody and what the US elected to do is not relevant.

      • Woody Tanaka
        March 22, 2011, 8:43 pm

        I was speaking specifically of land which was conquered and incorporated into the 50 states. The only acquisitions after the Mexican Cession were Alaska, which was purchased, and Hawaii which technically was an annexation done at the request of the Republic of Hawaii. (And, yes, I understand that that the US overthrew the monarchy, etc. But even if you consider the annexation, the Organic Act, providing for the government of Hawaii, granted blanket US citizenship to everyone who had been a citizen of the Republic of Hawaii on the date of annexation, so the point still stands.)

        And what the US decided to do is relevant to eee’s comment comparing this situation to the US’s situation with Green Cards.

      • ToivoS
        March 22, 2011, 9:42 pm

        Congratulations Woody you have just been successfully deflected from the topic by a cute hasbaric maneuver. Quibbling over the history of the American SW rather than the egregious injustice being committed in E. Jerusalem today. Fuster tricks many with his pretend concern for Palestinian justice and then he sand bags you.

        Don’t let him to it to you again.

    • Colin Murray
      March 22, 2011, 1:03 pm

      All Fahmy had to do was apply for Israeli citizenship after 1967. He refused to do so, why?

      I’ll take a wild guess. He was there before the Israeli conquest in 1967. His home in Jerusalem is legally classified as occupied territory under international treaties to which Israel is signatory (4th GC & others). The Israelis ‘revoked’ his Jerusalem ID with its attendant residency status. It’s the equivalent of revoking citizenship, with Israelis running the de facto Palestinian government.

      Mr. Fahmy is being deported from occupied territory in which he was born. This is ethnic cleansing, pure and simple. It’s yet another example of why Palestinians need a state on their own land. It reminds me of eerily similar treatment of Jews by Nazis prior to World War 2.

      Anti-Jewish Legislation in Prewar Germany, U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum

      The Reich Citizenship Law (September 15, 1935), Jewish Virtual Library

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 1:23 pm

        You know I greatly appreciate that you’ve put this out in such an articulate and watertight presentation, Colin (as well as citing the Geneva Convention word for word), but it frustrates me that we have to dance around and prove our point.

        Whenever I just say, “Israelis are behaving like Nazis,” my posts get bounced. It’s like we have to write a frickin’ essay question answer to prove the point, and meanwhile people like eee blast garbage on the site without much restraint.

        I understand that Phil and Adam are proving a point by letting Zionists reveal themselves in all their ugliness, but having my hands tied behind my back and not being given freedom of expression WHEN I AM DEMONSTRABLY CORRECT is making me extremely resentful.

        And enough of that side bar, sorry.

      • Colin Murray
        March 22, 2011, 3:32 pm

        I think I understand Phil and Adams’ reticence about such comparisons. It almost certainly puts off some Jewish readers who might otherwise be willing to listen to criticism of Israel. It is unfortunate that it also happens to be imo the disturbingly best analogy as long as one qualifies with “pre-1939.”

        I agree that you are “demonstrably correct.” However, what is more important, optimization of historical analogies or maximization of number of people awakened to ongoing ethnic cleansing and colonization? Most people who have been so thoroughly misinformed that a portion of their personal identity is tied up in myth and fabrication can’t handle too much truth at once.

        Victory is achieved one person at a time. Adam and Phil understand the portion of the Jewish community that is their target audience vastly better than I do, so I defer to their judgment. It can be appropriate in other venues, but this is theirs.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 3:42 pm

        The truth waits for no one. And neither does justice.

        I’ve rather stated on numerous occasions that I think Phil and Adam are wasting their time trying to change the attitude of the American Jewish community. Eee’s a monster, and he’s a jerk, but he’s also right about something — Israel owns the American Jewish community now.

        What Phil and Adam should be focusing on is the other 98% of US citizens. Especially if they want to transcend Jewish tribalism themselves.

      • Philip Weiss
        March 22, 2011, 4:01 pm

        adam and i are different about this. adam has that position. i regard jews as a powerful community and calving off icebergs is good work

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 4:05 pm

        You realize, Phil, people like eee and hophmi would rather set fire to the American Jewish community, as a whole, then see it operate freely?

      • ToivoS
        March 22, 2011, 6:14 pm

        I agree with the moderators that the NAZI analogy should not be used. The Israelis have yet to engage in genocide. When that day arrives then it will be OK.

        I realize that what the Jews are doing to the Arabs is very similar to what the Germans did to the Jews in the years from 1933 – 1940 or so. But that comparison cannot be made without reminding everyone of the holocaust. So don’t do it.

        There are better analogies with British Kenya, French Algeria and South Africa. These were all clear colonial-settler states with the wonderful precedent for Israel that all were dismantled.

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 3:54 pm

        colin, when i heard laila el-haddad speak she told the story of her family finding out they had one day in which to return to keep their residency. there was some false alarm weeks before (i can’t completely recall) that was called off and then israel announced everyone present over this one day or weekend could have their residency papers if they were present and accounted for. her parents, both doctors were in quatar and hurried back. her future husband was in lebanon and not able to get back across the border and can’t ever get into gaza now. she goes back w/regularity to keep her residency but with children and the blockade it take quite a toll on her as you can imagine.
        i went to a workshop on residency id’s from a palestinian (48) who lives in EJ and works at some center dealing with these issues. it is extremely complicated the things people go thru and red tape is very difficult.

        it’s not a simple a formula and there are things israel can do if it wants to get you out anyway. a variety of things they do to evict people. they revoke thousands of residencies a year. i think 4000 last year or something. i can’t remember the specifics but it is a lot.

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 3:56 pm

        Interior Ministry revoked the residency of 4,577 East Jerusalemites last year, marking an all-time record.

        A resident, unlike a citizen, can be stripped of his status relatively easily. All he has to do is leave the country for seven years or obtain citizenship, permanent residency or some other form of legal status in another country, and he loses his Israeli residency automatically.

        Once a Palestinian has lost his residency, even returning to Jerusalem for a family visit can be impossible, Ben-Hillel said. Moreover, he said, some of those whose residency Israel revoked may not have legal status in any other country, meaning they have been made stateless.

        “The list may include students who went for a few years to study in another country, and can now no longer return to their homes,” he said.

        Officials at Hamoked, which obtained the ministry data via the Freedom of Information Act, said they were concerned that some of those who lost their residency rights may not even know it.

        “The phenomenon of revoking people’s residency has reached frightening dimensions,” said Dalia Kerstein, Hamoked’s executive director. “The Interior Ministry operation in 2008 is just part of a general policy whose goal is to restrict the size of the Palestinian population and maintain a Jewish majority in Jerusalem. The Palestinians are natives of this city, not Johnny-come-latelys.”

    • Shingo
      March 22, 2011, 2:54 pm

      All Fahmy had to do was apply for Israeli citizenship after 1967. He refused to do so, why?

      How many people born in Israel have to apply for citizenship ere? Should the ones who din ‘t be deported?

      • Michael W.
        March 22, 2011, 4:30 pm


        Was Fahmy born in Israel?

        He was born on a piece of land that became under Israel’s control and annexed (not recognized by the international community) after he was born.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 4:55 pm

        Which highlights the utter racist farce that is Israel. People like eee and fuster want to consider the land to be Israel, but the people who are born on it are not Israeli.

        You must be at least this Jewish to ride the ferris wheel.

      • Woody Tanaka
        March 22, 2011, 5:08 pm

        “You must be at least this Jewish to ride the ferris wheel.”

        I am so stealing this…

      • Shingo
        March 22, 2011, 7:03 pm

        He was born on a piece of land that became under Israel’s control and annexed (not recognized by the international community) after he was born.

        It’s still not part fo Israel and even if it was, your argument is irrelevant. Did Jordan have the right to expless Jews from Jerusalem just because they annexed it?

    • The Hasbara Buster
      March 23, 2011, 12:15 am

      All Fahmy had to do was apply for Israeli citizenship after 1967.


      Any Israeli Arab citizen can be stripped of their nationality after living for 7 years abroad, under section 11(a)(2) of Israel’s Nationality Law. See here.

      Jews can also have their citizenship revoked for the same reason, but, as different from Israeli Arabs, they can immediately reapply for it under the Law of Return.

      The result: any Jew can freely travel abroad for as long as they wish with no risk of losing their nationality. No Israeli Arab, on the other hand, enjoys the same freedom, because their citizenship would be revoked.

      Two very different kinds of citizenship. And they wonder why we call Israel an Apartheid country.

    • tommy
      March 23, 2011, 12:27 am

      Jerusalem has never been a legal part of Israel.

  10. bijou
    March 22, 2011, 12:38 pm

    and would have almost automatically been granted one.

    You make it sound so easy, but you slip in that little legalistic caveat.

    You know this is complete bullshit. Starting with your very initial framing – that someone born in a place has to “apply” for citizenship in the first place (rather than being entitled to it by birth).

    I don’t have time now to go and find links etc but you know as well as I that there is NO SUCH THING as automatic citizenship in Jerusalem for a non-Jew.

    • eee
      March 22, 2011, 12:46 pm

      For many years after 1967 it was completely automatic. You can check as much as you like.

      Israel wanted to grant all the Palestinians in East Jerusalem citizenship in 1967, but they refused just as many of the Druze in the Golan refused to accept Israeli citizenship. Fahmy made a stupid decision, he should learn to live with it.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 12:49 pm

        Isn’t that kind of like Poles or French people accepting German citizenship? You do know that annexation by force of arms has been illegal since the end of WW2, right? You remember why, don’t you eee? “Never again?” Did you forget?

      • seafoid
        March 22, 2011, 12:52 pm

        “Fahmy made a stupid decision, he should learn to live with it.”

        No he didn’t. It’s like saying “Steve Biko was wrong. He should have been happy with a few tribal homelands”.

      • Colin Murray
        March 22, 2011, 1:11 pm

        4th Geneva Convention
        Section III. Occupied territories
        Article 49 – Population transfer

        Art. 49. Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive.

        Nevertheless, the Occupying Power may undertake total or partial evacuation of a given area if the security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand. Such evacuations may not involve the displacement of protected persons outside the bounds of the occupied territory except when for material reasons it is impossible to avoid such displacement. Persons thus evacuated shall be transferred back to their homes as soon as hostilities in the area in question have ceased.

        The Occupying Power undertaking such transfers or evacuations shall ensure, to the greatest practicable extent, that proper accommodation is provided to receive the protected persons, that the removals are effected in satisfactory conditions of hygiene, health, safety and nutrition, and that members of the same family are not separated.

        The Protecting Power shall be informed of any transfers and evacuations as soon as they have taken place.

        The Occupying Power shall not detain protected persons in an area particularly exposed to the dangers of war unless the security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand.

        The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.

      • Shingo
        March 22, 2011, 3:05 pm

        For many years after 1967 it was completely automatic.

        If they were completely automatic, then none of the residents need apply and therefore, none would have rejected citizenship.

        And why has automatic corozenship stopped eee? EJ is not Israel after all.

      • eee
        March 22, 2011, 4:17 pm

        East Jerusalem was annexed, it is part of Israel. Israeli law applies there. Get used to it. It could change by negotiation if the Palestinians get around to it. Oh yes, pizza.

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 4:19 pm

        East Jerusalem was annexed

        only according to israel. you can’t unilaterally annex land, it’s against international law.

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 4:23 pm

        i thought this might interest you eee.

        UC Hastings College of the Law and the Trans Arab Research Institute (TARI) are sponsoring a 2 day seminar in SF this weekend.
        “Litigating Palestine: Can Courts Secure Palestinian Rights?”

        i’ll be attending. the law will catch up with israel one of these days.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 4:35 pm

        That’s illegal, eee. It was a crime when Nazi Germany did the exact same thing to Poland (which was answered for at Nuremberg) and its illegal when you do it to the Palestinians.

        You cannot take land by force and expel the original inhabitants. That makes you a war criminal by the standards of the Geneva Conventions, eee.

      • eee
        March 22, 2011, 4:46 pm

        Yes Annie, please let’s litigate this.
        Not only can Israel unilaterally annex land, it has in fact done so, in the Golan and in East Jerusalem. Not only that, only Israel law applies in these places. If you start a war and lose land, don’t be surprised if it is annexed.
        The litigation process is hopeless for the Palestinians. It will open more cans of worms for the world’s countries than anyone would want to risk.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 4:56 pm

        See you at Nuremberg, eee.

      • Shingo
        March 22, 2011, 7:01 pm

        East Jerusalem was annexed, it is part of Israel.

        When was it annexed eee?

      • andrew r
        March 22, 2011, 9:21 pm

        1. International law does not permit forced removal from one’s own country. Munther Fahmy doesn’t have to go through hoops to maintain his right to live in Jerusalem.

        2. Israel does not permit dual citizenship for gentiles, only Jews. Jews who make aliyah under the Law of Return don’t have to give up their current citizenship. Gentiles who become Israeli under art. 5 of the Nationality Law must give up their previous citizenship. So in applying for Israeli citizenship, you’d be legitimating this act of discrimination. (And this is probably why few applied after 1967 since they were Jordanian subjects.)

        3. Being an Israeli citizen in itself doesn’t protect from discrimination. So there’s no reason to expect Fahmy would be left alone had he applied. You have to show us that Israel does not violate the residency rights of Palestinian citizens in East Jerusalem.

        Of course you’re blaming the victim because for the Zionist segregation regime, any act of expulsion is a good act.

  11. Mooser
    March 22, 2011, 1:02 pm

    Good Lord, if people have to apply for citizenship in the lands in which they were born because they don’t fit the prevailing regime, where will the Jews go?

    • Mooser
      March 22, 2011, 1:04 pm

      I used to wonder why the Zionists were always so willing to play the games Jews are sure to lose. I don’t wonder anymore. Jewish suffering is the fuel Zionism runs on, Jewish sucess is inimical to it. And if there’s not enough fuel to go around, they will create it.

  12. Potsherd2
    March 22, 2011, 1:47 pm

    One of the new racist laws going through peristalisis in the Knesset is one that gives the government the power to revoke Israeli citizenship for people they decide not to like.

    • Mooser
      March 22, 2011, 2:39 pm

      Potsherd, there’s just too many Jews in Israel. And what happens when Israel no longer has a need for the ultra-Orthodox or settlers? They won’t fit in to “fuster’s” Israel, so he will have to kick out “eee”. Or vice versa.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 2:54 pm

        You know, in spite of how awful that would be if it comes to pass, I can’t help but find it an amusing thought.

      • fuster
        March 22, 2011, 4:11 pm

        Moose, I don’t own an Israel, but if I did there would be plenty of room for you and Rocky.

      • Cliff
        March 22, 2011, 4:30 pm

        You’re not funny frog. We already have one joke (eee the disgruntled ex-IDF, paid hasbarist).

    • Shingo
      March 22, 2011, 3:08 pm

      I wonder if that applies to Jews, including the Jews err decides are not Jews?

  13. Eva Smagacz
    March 23, 2011, 5:06 am

    Where would these “ex-citizen” go?

    Will they be cast adrift on the boats over the maritime line onto the Mediterranean See? End up in Airport Terminals? Or be dumped into Gaza?

  14. Honest
    October 6, 2015, 4:37 pm

    1. In Israel, citizens cannot be stripped of their citizenship unless very severe circumstances occur, and the person has another citizenship (which means the person will not remain without any citizenship). This almost has never been used at all in Israel.

    2. Fahmy didn’t apply for Israeli citizenship. Fahmy was given a permenant residence status with an option to apply for citizenship on spot, but chose not to apply for citizenship. Had he applied for citizenship, the citizenship could never been revoked. Since he has not, and since residency status expired after not living in the country of the residency for a long period of time (a normal regulation in almost every country in the world) – in this case he left in 1975 and got back for a visit in 1994-1995, about 20 years later. 20 years of absence definitely justify expiration of residency.

    • Bumblebye
      October 6, 2015, 5:16 pm

      Aside from this thread being 4 1/2 years old, why should someone living in *illegally* occupied Palestine even have to apply for the occupiers citizenship? Get out already! Occupiers get back to Israel and allowthe exiled their land and homes back!

Leave a Reply