It appears that everyone is against partition in Libya.
Michael Singh, who works for the Israel lobby group the Washington Institute for Near East Policy (WINEP), was on cable television two days ago (I believe MSNBC) and said directly that "the two-state solution" was not a good plan for Libya. Last night on CNN, General Barry McCaffrey echoed the point. He said that "fragmentation" of Libya was in no one's interest, and would foster extremism in the portion controlled by Qaddafy.
Let's talk about Israel and Palestine, where world government called for Partition 64 years ago. While I am sympathetic to the idea of Partition in Israel and Palestine, as a means of separating brutalized peoples, it must be emphasized that: 1, Partition has already demonstrably failed there (only one side got a state or sovereignty, despite the promises; and the powerful side continues to devour and occupy what fragments the other side still holds). 2, The Partition has seemed to foster extremism on both sides, including the "irredentism" that J Street bewails-- Palestinian claims on stolen land, and who can blame em.
Yes Israel/Palestine is an intractable situation. Unlike Libya, which is a walk in the park. But if WINEP is for democracy in tribally-divided Libya, why not in Israel and Palestine too?
1) failed? naaw. can’t understand why it failed.
2) could be that the extremism was fostered not by the partition but by the warfare and terrorism.
Warfare and terrorism does not simply exist for the sake of it. War and terrorism ( the same thing) are the symptom of somrhinb else.
The WINEP Zionists and C0. are not interested in seeing the inevitable 2 Libyas, one oil-rich area controlled by the uncontrollable insurgents that are a few shades from being full fundamentalists and the other also oil-rich and controlled by the marginal Gaddafi. They want Libya to stay whole so they could get their hands on all of it.
Here’s something arguing for two-state. Not the sort of person that would get published here by Weiss, I suppose.
link to jeromeslater.com
———”We live in an imperfect world, full of injustices, tragic dilemmas, and circumstances we can’t control. There is no perfectly just solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, even in principle, let alone in practice. If those who rightly abhor Israeli policies give up on a two-state settlement, however dim its current prospects, in favor of a quixotic venture to create a fantasy–a stable democratic state in which Israelis and Palestinians live in peace, harmony, and equality–they will make it even more likely that the Palestinians will receive no justice at all, and will be condemned to live indefinitely under Israeli occupation and repression.”————
Jerome Slater has been published quite a few times here.
Please troll somewhere else.
Not the sort of person that would get published here by Weiss, I suppose.
we even have a site search function.
link to mondoweiss.net
yes, I understood that Slater has been mentioned here, but was pretty sure that the piece to which I linked would not be.
Not the sort of person that would get published here by Weiss, I suppose.
and
yes, I understood that Slater has been mentioned here, but was pretty sure that the piece to which I linked would not be.
Wrong. You really need to use the search function. Not only has Slater been “mentioned” here, but he has also posted several essays here as well. In fact the first two sentences you quoted are verbatim from an essay he posted here back in February, and the third sentence is simply a longer riff on his following sentence posted here.
link to mondoweiss.net
And here’s a post by Slater from November last year,
link to mondoweiss.net
followed by a response by Ahmed Moor
link to mondoweiss.net
and one by David Samel
link to mondoweiss.net
Slater’s “But we don’t live in an ideal world…” post linked at the top contained some questions for Shmuel Sermoneta-Gertel, who responded here:
link to mondoweiss.net
You’re welcome for the links. I figured since you have so much trouble reading charts you might need some assistance doing searches as well. Slater has also posted other pieces here. If you need help finding them let me know.
Here’s something arguing for two-state.
did it ever occur to you there are people here who were two state supporters not that long ago? some of us evolved into one staters after hanging around reading about israel intransigence for a few years. there are probably a few of us who turned into one staters after arguing w/pompous ethnic cleansing supporting jerkoff zionists for a few years.
did that even occur to you? this is the trend so get used to it. you might try working on israel to actually change some of their policies as opposed to running out and stocking up on lipstick and sending hasbaristas to all corners of the internet.
—probably a few of us who turned into one staters after arguing w/pompous ethnic cleansing supporting jerkoff zionists for a few years.—-
if that’s your reason for changing, you need to re-think.
been there, done that. a rethunk is what woke me up. pompous ethnic cleansing supporting jerkoff zionists perfectly represent the mentality of those running the apartheid state. they don’t bend or backdown, they are only concerned with maintaining the status quo and fending off israel’s critics and diverting the responsibility for this mess into a ‘both sides’ narrative at best. lots of lipstick.
the bottom line fussy is israel has no intention of negotiating any kind of state for palestine they would accept themselves if the tables were turned. so what’s the point on hoping israel will change? like waiting for godot. show me an ex pompous ethnic cleansing supporting jerkoff zionist and then let’s talk.
basically it comes down to this. they won’t change so i will. if the situation is not producing 2 states then why should i compromise my principles? i’m an american. i believe in equality. equality has more chance of occurring thru palestinians gaining their rights thru one state than israel letting go of this:
why wait decades for that? no thanks
it’s you who should do a rethink. you want israel to change? support bds. maybe if israel is on it’s knees it will grant palestine a state, but don’t hold your breath. if you really wanted israel to change you wouldn’t be here trying to change me. the left is not your problem. look to your right, there’s your problem.
I can’t deny that was a factor annie, however tiny :-)
It’s not that I am opposed to a two-state solution – I am not. Norman Finkelstein makes an excellent and sensible case for two-states based on the near global consensus and legal backing this solution has, but as long as Israel can escape UN accountability because of the US abusing it’s SC veto, it doesn’t seem possible to bring enough pressure to bear on Israel so it will evacuate the settlements and clear the path for a viable Palestinian settlement.
Wikileaks cables from Tel Aviv demonstrate the Israelis absurd idea of what constitutes a Palestinian state. Netanyahu’s vision (which he claims “moderate” ex-Likudnik Tzipi Livni shares) involves the extension of Gaza-like conditions to the West Bank: Israel will control the sea- and air-space, borders and even electromagnetic spectrum of the de-militarised Palestinian state. At any time it chooses Israel can impose a siege… It’s a misnomer to call such an entity a state, even ‘state-minus’ is misleading.
The Palestine Papers documented the unprecedented concessions made by the Palestinian negotiating party, which the Israeli simply banked and asked for more. When it’s clear the Israeli Government wont take “YES” for an answer then it’s time to change tack. Still waiting for the PA work this out, I guess they’re waiting ’til September.
We hear over and over (but not as much as ‘BDS is one-staaaate!’) that the majority of Israelis are in favour of a two-state solution, but they continue to elect governments that are not. The Palestinian people should not have to continue suffering while Israelis sort that out.
Anyone read or heard Norm Finkelstein’s opinions on a two-state solution since Wikileaks & the Palestine Papers? I’d be interested to know if they have shifted.
thanks sumud, you’ve pretty much nailed it. what’s the point of supporting 2 states once it becomes crystal clear israel has no intention of bending. it’s a stall routine and palestinians are getting blamed for it. did you see oren on maher’s show. they lie thru their teeth.
RE: “But if WINEP is for democracy in tribally-divided Libya, why not in Israel and Palestine too?” – Weiss
MY SNARKY ANSWER: This is elementary, my dear fellow (Watson) : it is a case of apples and oranges*!
* “Sticks and stones may break our bones, but facts [nor valid analogies] will ever sway us.” ~ Neocon Creed
P.S. Phil, did I ever tell you what happens to “nosy fellows”? They lose all of their bandwith. It is fed to some midget’s (or “little person’s”, to be more politically correct) goldfish!
Nosy fellow (VIDEO, 01:03) – link to youtube.com
RE: “Michael Singh, who works for the Israel lobby group the Washington Institute for Near East Policy (WINEP)” – Weiss
“OLDE SNARKY” SEZ (HUFFILY, AND WITH A “SLIGHTLY LISPY QUALITY”*): How dare you! How dare you! How dare you! WINEP is a highly regarded, independent, unaffiliated, nonpartisan (or bipartisan – take your pique) stink tank! It has absolutely, positively nothing to do with AIPAC! And you and mister ‘disenchanted former employee’, M.J. Rosenberg, know it!
And if you’re not careful partner, you will lose every friggin’ bit-per-second of your bandwith. Consider this your last warning!
* original concept of ‘slightly lispy quality’ credited to Pauline Kael and used by her in reference to “Chuckie” Norris several decades (+ or -) ago