I heard about Osama Bin Laden's death through a friend this morning. I dismissed the matter entirely and thought little of it at first: Bin Laden was old news, an alibi with no currency, a bad joke. Chances are, he was caught and killed years ago. What difference did it make? Really, none, I felt. I ran my errands, and sat down to study and write my papers. It was only when I switched on the television to check the news during lunch that I felt compelled to pay attention. Images from outside the White House beg comparison to nothing less than a fourth of July rally. The way Americans have been celebrating at Ground Zero, you would think they had just been through their own revolution. But indeed, between Clinton's address and worldwide security alerts of anticipated retaliation by Al-Qaeda, the discourse has been less about celebrating the end of an era, and more about fortifying the War on Terror, expanding its scope and reach, increasing and exacerbating racialized securitization. The fight is not over, we hear, and US-led missions in a decapitated Afghanistan and impotent Pakistan only seem to be renewing their license to stay and continue their costly colonization and humiliation of these nations and their neighbors.
The idea of celebrating any death is repulsive. But perhaps, if anyone living today might venture even a sigh of relief at the capture (at least) of Osama Bin Laden (and the presumed symbolic defeat of Al Qaeda, whatever that might mean), it is the countless Muslims and Arabs that have, since 9/11, paid with their lives and dignity, directly and indirectly, for his atrocious acts in the name of countering imperialism and defending Islam. But if you don't see us dancing in the streets today it is because Al-Qaeda is and has been beyond irrelevant for years. For the last decade, the US War on Terror has reproduced the Osama Bin Laden fiction, transforming him from a relic of Cold War alliances to a contemporary alibi for the brutal invasion and murderous missions in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Those of us that know history did not begin on September 11th have been resisting the abrasive, suffocating encroachment of imperialist and reactionary elements on our lives and identities, building up to the present moment of revolution: between Tunisia, Egypt, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Bahrain and the rest of the region, Arabs, Muslim or otherwise, are fighting to end the age of US puppet regimes on their own terms. One cannot help but wonder what "victory" the United States can claim in the murder of Osama Bin Laden on Pakistani soil.
The victory, we are told, is in delivering justice. But what measure of justice, and for whom? The governments of this world - a global war-profiteering military-industrial complex spoken for by corporate media - have pulled the trigger on Osama Bin Laden in time to save Obama's re-election campaign, and to mute the significance of May Day in a climate of increased precarity and dispossession. By funnelling the opium of patriotism (America's exception to nationalism), Obama might well be preparing the American people for another decade of war, and is undoubtedly shooting the already paralyzed working and tax-paying American in the foot. Five months into a year that has thus far been marked by revolutionary winds, Americans that stood in solidarity with the Egyptian revolution and the ongoing Arab uprisings, many of the same people that were inspired by our movements and held signs saying "Walk Like an Egyptian" in Wisconsin, may now very well be celebrating at Ground Zero in a bizarre performance of patriotism, despite ten years that have left us with a crippled Iraq, a devastated Afghanistan, and the loss of millions of lives, including those of Americans.
In effect, this theatrical display does not pay tribute to the victims of 9/11 (may they rest in peace), nor does it give more meaning to the lives of dead soldiers or the victims of the American-led missions in the region. It is an ecstatic tribute to a death-machine in which the only winners have been a global capitalist elite: arms companies, security apparati, criminal (and in many cases, outgoing) authoritarian regimes, and the many corporations that thrive on disaster. Even more offensive in the Ground Zero party is the continued racialization of what constitutes a grievable human life, such that similar celebrations (by minorities) following 9/11 were seen as evidence of an innately violent culture of death, but popular celebrations of an empty assassination valorize a fictional "justice". Osama Bin Laden is symbolic, but in effect what many Americans today seem to celebrate is a vicious cycle of violence, a historic tradition in which real or invented causes are allowed to take precedence over collective human dignity and the value of life.
To dance in celebration today is offensive first and foremost to the victims of the attacks on September 11th. They are palpably alone in singing the Star Spangled Banner and celebrating the murder of Osama Bin Laden, thoroughly alone, because no one in the world cares or even remembers. If these dancing Americans, however, were to transform their fear and fascination with violence into rage and courage to occupy the same streets in protest, against the ruling elite that has profited from the loss and grief of 9/11 and the wars that followed, and the undemocratic corporate interests running their lives, they might find the arms of other ordinary working people from around the world extended in solidarity.
Sarah, I would no doubt write what you have done above more plainly, crudely, and rudely, but we concur.
I’m ashamed to be American today.
Under some color of something, you could say we were victims on 911 (although I don’t buy it at all), but we transcend the role of victim when we choose to act evilly.
Amazing work Sarah. Thank you.
J live said it all in 2002
link to lyrics.astraweb.com
I know a older guy that lost twelve close peeps on 9-1-1
While you kickin’ up punchlines and puns
Man fuck that shit, this is serious biz
By the time Bush is done, you won’t know what time it is
If it’s war time or jail time, time for promises
And time to figure out where the enemy is
The same devils that you used to love to hate
They got you so gassed and shook now, you scared to debate
The same ones that traded books for guns
Smuggled drugs for funds
And had fun lettin’ off forty-one
But now it’s all about NYPD caps
And Pentagon bumper stickers
But yo, you still a nigga
It ain’t right them cops and them firemen died
The shit is real tragic, but it damn sure ain’t magic
It won’t make the brutality disappear
It won’t pull equality from behind your ear
It won’t make a difference in a two-party country
If the president cheats, to win another four years
Now don’t get me wrong, there’s no place I’d rather be
The grass ain’t greener on the other genocide
But tell Huey Freeman don’t forget to cut the lawn
And uproot the weeds
Cuz I’m not satisfied
The street celebrations in reaction to the news of OBL’s death are not surprising, but not encouraging either. As one celebrant remarked: we are all about 22 and we were all about 12 when the World Trade Center was attacked. So it is youthful exuberance regarding an enemy they have known since their pre teen years. Understandable.
I remember the reaction of Americans who took to the streets when the hostages from Iran were freed in 1981. One sign read
“America: 52. Iran: 0″. The lack of geopolitical sophistication reflected in such a sign is bottomless. Whereas the chants of “USA! USA!” reflect a lack of morality, it is the lack of knowledge regarding the world which is sometimes scarier.
Osama’s name recognition was probably in the upper 90′s in the US. Zawahiri, who in fact is the operational chief of Al Qaida these days, probably has a name recognition in the 20′s, almost certainly lower than the percentage of Americans who watched the royal wedding last Friday.
How dangerous is Al Qaida these days? I have not studied the issue and have no way of knowing. The future of the Arab spring is still unknown. I just read an article regarding what the fall of the Assad regime in Syria would spell for the region and it warned me to temper my hatred for Assad and my empathy for the Syrian people’s desire for freedom with a dose of reality. These are more immediate questions compared to the latent power of Islamic inspired terrorists.
It would be nice to have someone like Ephraim Halevy in charge of Israel’s future (he has expressed empathy/hope regarding Palestinian reconciliation) rather than the stodgy, inflexible and unlikable Netanyahu. The reaction of the crowd in East Meadow New York lighting candles to remember the dead from 9/11 seems to have its heart in the right place. But kids will be kids and will chant “USA! USA!”
WJ, they chant the same for their team during each sports season, not to mention during each Olympic games. Kids are empty vessels. I am ashamed of their parents, coaches, and teachers. Not to mention their government. As OBL was his.
And Sarah, loved your banner direction of the dancing “Americans” on the top of the white van. I remember what Bibi said right after those 3, 000 Americans dropped off the twin towers like crap from a pidgeon, or sperm into a rubber. It was good for Israel.
Citizen,
Do you or anyone else here have a link to the text of that April 2007 (I think) speech that Netanyhau gave to Bar Ilan University where he said that 9/11 was good for Israel? I know it was reported in Ha’aretz and elsewhere, but where is the text of the speech? I can’t find it.
jpost reported it too. why are you asking? just context? had it not been true there would have been some sort of official denial don’t you think? since it was so heavily covered. ever intercepted an official denial?
Annie,
Could you link me to the JP article? Maybe they have a link to the speech.
go find someone else to do your homework for you. do you speak hebrew? the speech was probably in hebrew btw and first reported in maariv. so if you want to find the original speech i would do a search in hebrew.
Oh Annie,
Of course i speak Hebrew. Who doesn’t?
Do you think that AIPAC, the ADL, and the Israeli MFA send me my paychecks in English for all the propaganda I do for them here?
From Haaretz.com:
Report: Netanyahu says 9/11 terror attacks good for Israel
I like this part:
>> Netanyahu said Iran differed from the Nazis in one vital respect, explaining that “where that [Nazi] regime embarked on a global conflict before it developed nuclear weapons,” he said. “This regime [Iran] is developing nuclear weapons before it embarks on a global conflict.”
He conveniently omits mention of the fact that the Israeli regime has already developed nuclear weapons AND embarked on a global conflict.
“Of course i speak Hebrew. Who doesn’t?”
Thankfully you dropped the insulting charade that there was something or other Lebanese about you. Israel can keep you. You asked about the shitty quote by Netanyahu:
A DAY OF TERROR: THE ISRAELIS; Spilled Blood Is Seen as Bond That Draws 2 Nations Closer
By JAMES BENNET
Published: September 12, 2001
Israeli officials and most Palestinian leaders condemned the attack on the United States today. But Israelis also took cold comfort in concluding that Americans would now share more of their fears, while some Palestinians rejoiced at the same thought.
… Asked tonight what the attack meant for relations between the United States and Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, the former prime minister, replied, ”It’s very good.” Then he edited himself: ”Well, not very good, but it will generate immediate sympathy.” He predicted that the attack would ”strengthen the bond between our two peoples, because we’ve experienced terror over so many decades, but the United States has now experienced a massive hemorrhaging of terror.”
link to nytimes.com
Walid,
Oh yes, how could i let the mask slip like that? My Zionist paymasters will be so disappointed! In the Mossad they teach us well not to do those things. Stupid, stupid!
Here’s the full quote in context:
“Asked tonight what the attack meant for relations between the United States and Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, the former prime minister, replied, ”It’s very good.” Then he edited himself: ”Well, not very good, but it will generate immediate sympathy.” He predicted that the attack would ”strengthen the bond between our two peoples, because we’ve experienced terror over so many decades, but the United States has now experienced a massive hemorrhaging of terror.”
Netanyahu was answering what the attacks would mean in the context of the US-Israel relationship, saying it would ”strengthen the bond between our two peoples, because we’ve experienced terror over so many decades, but the United States has now experienced a massive hemorrhaging of terror.”
He did not say the attacks themselves were a “good” thing.
Nice try, though.
Netanyahu actually said something along these lines twice, once on September 12, 2001 (as quoted fully by Walid), and again in 2007 or 2008 when he said “We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq,”
Robert Werdine, while you’re asking for links, could you provide a link to support your claim that Arafat made screaming speeches calling for the violent death of Israel? Several weeks ago, you claimed:
So I’m asking for some video evidence of the critical blood-curdling Arafat speeches that convinced you to dramatically change from your conviction that “Israel was the most evil nation in the world” to your current position. It wouldn’t hurt if you could supply evidence that some of these speeches were made on the same day that he “talked peace with gullible western audiences.”
btw, you were asking for the Netanyahu speech at Bar Ilan U. in 2008, as it turns out, and Walid mistakenly directed you to a statement made on 9/12/01. As to the Bar Ilan U speech, Ha’aretz actually did run the headline “Netanyahu says 9/11 terror attacks good for Israel,” and reported:
So you knew Walid had mistakenly directed you to a statement made seven years earlier, but pretended otherwise.
Nice try, though.
Netanyahu said that 9/11 made great PR fodder for Israel. Yeah, comforting.
Nice to know some Israelis think 9/11 was not good per se, but good because it stengthened US bonding with Israel, and swung American public opinion in Israel’s favor.
David,
Your really becoming a bore.
You said:
“btw, you were asking for the Netanyahu speech at Bar Ilan U. in 2008, as it turns out, and Walid mistakenly directed you to a statement made on 9/12/01. As to the Bar Ilan U speech, Ha’aretz actually did run the headline “Netanyahu says 9/11 terror attacks good for Israel,” and reported:
We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq,” Ma’ariv quoted the former prime minister as saying. He reportedly added that these events “swung American public opinion in our favor.”
So you knew Walid had mistakenly directed you to a statement made seven years earlier, but pretended otherwise.”
Bullshit. I responded directly to the quote that Walid cited
Above, I earlier asked Citizen:
“Do you or anyone else here have a link to the text of that April 2007 (I think) speech that Netanyhau gave to Bar Ilan University where he said that 9/11 was good for Israel? I know it was reported in Ha’aretz and elsewhere, but where is the text of the speech? I can’t find it.”
Nice try, though.
Robert, if you’re (not your) bored, take a hike. The important question here is whether Bibi said that 9/11 was good for Israel. You asked for a quote, and when Walid supplied the wrong, less offensive one, you jumped on it as if it were the one you were looking for. You concluded, “He did not say the attacks themselves were a “good” thing. Nice try, though” when you knew that he did say elsewhere that they were good for Israel. Another dishonest move on your part. Walid’s mistake was unintentional, and you deliberately capitalized on that mistake. The quote you actually were asking about is not so easy to defend.
WJ,
How dangerous is Al Qaida these days? I have not studied the issue and have no way of knowing.
General McChrystal said there were “less than 50 to 100″ left in Afghanistan.
WJ,
I just read an article regarding what the fall of the Assad regime in Syria would spell for the region and it warned me to temper my hatred for Assad and my empathy for the Syrian people’s desire for freedom with a dose of reality.
Smart man, WJ. BTW, Assad Pere was one of the cagiest and smartest politician/rulers who ever ran a country in the ME.
If dances to celebrate the death of enemies is wrong, then pointing out instances of this phenomenon in the Arab/Muslim world makes moral sense.
If they are valid, then they are valid for Americans as surely as for any other group.
It bugs me that the very people to condemn this American celebration of OBL’s death were likely to have wanted to squash the condemnation/attention to this behavior when it takes place elsewhere.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
I don’t care either way; but the nutty far left is being hypocritical when they sneer at American joy after having chin-stroked apologetically at similar behavior elsewhere.
and
Really? You think Obama timed this to detract from May Day? Let me be the first to say that is a fantastic conspiracy theory. You ‘might well’ be trying to portray supporters of peace and justice as prone to highly imaginative speculation. Who would benefit from that? Supporters of empire, that’s who!
‘If dances to celebrate the death of enemies is wrong, then pointing out instances of this phenomenon in the Arab/Muslim world makes moral sense.’
Who’s talking about the ‘Arab/Muslim world’? I assume that Sarah Hawas’s sarcastic ‘dancing Americans’ trope refers to the five ‘dancing Israelis’ who were watching the World Trade towers burn from New Jersey, and celebrating because it would be ‘good for Israel.’
As indeed it was, in terms of co-opting the US into massively expanding its intervention in the mideast. Now the US, with its wars and drone attacks, serves as a ‘human shield’ to deflect Muslim anger from the original sin of Israel’s occupation of Palestine which so exercised Bin Laden.
The naive young ‘dancing Americans’ will soon learn that the party’s over, as the sun sets on the bankrupt and dying American military empire. Who would have thought that our very best friend, Israel, didn’t have our best interests in mind?
*slaps palm to forehead in rueful realization*
Who’s talking about the ‘Arab/Muslim world’?
No one is, ever. They get a free pass to do whatever they want on Mondoweiss. Remember when they were beheading UN aid workers in Afghanistan? Nothing…. Slaughter children in Itamar? Must be a false flag…. Slaughtering each other in Libya and Syria (among other places)? It is because America backs their dictators….. The murder of Vittorio? Must be Shin Bet dressed up as Al Qaeda.
You guys apologize for or create a false flag scenario for any and all Muslim/Arab aggression which takes place in the ME. Am I being a racist? hell no, you guys are the racists, its reverse racism to apologize for a group of people because of who they are, while ignoring any vile action which they are responsible for.
sooo, is it your contention mossad doesn’t work undercover? israel doesn’t/wouldn’t participate in false flag operations? unless the goi specifically takes responsibility for their actions we shouldn’t ever speculate they have a hand in any of it?
gotcha
Annie, your response makes no sense at all.
Occam’s razor says the most likely answer is usually the right one. If you want to posit an alternative, the burden of proof is on you. It’s simply madness to say that NOTHING is at it seems and EVERYTHING is down to Mossad. It’s just not feasible. I challenge you to find a single West Bank Palestinian who thinks the Itamar murders were carried out by Israelis. It’s only the detatched loons on the MondoMoon that come up with this nonsense. I’m not a policeman. I didn’t carry out the investigation, but neither did you. Until you can come up with a credible alternative that isn’t fuelled by distrust of anything Israeli, you have nothing to say. I don’t mind if you don’t accept the current story, but just refusing to believe what you have read doesn’t make it untrue. To make it untrue, you actually need evidence, not suspicion.
Does Mossad carry out false flag operations? Probably, but that doesn’t give you licence to declare every attack on Israeli civilians a false flag just because you don’t want to believe the opposite. You need to provide some evidence of your own before you can dismiss the evidence you are presented with. Conspiracy theories don’t count as evidence in case you were wondering.
plenty said about the Itamar killings. Distraction just does not work here
strawman!
It’s simply madness to say that NOTHING is at it seems and EVERYTHING is down to Mossad.
of course, that’s why i didn’t say it.
Does Mossad carry out false flag operations? Probably, but that doesn’t give you licence to declare every attack on Israeli civilians a false flag just because you don’t want to believe the opposite.
and that’s why i didn’t say every attack on israeli civilians is a false flag. this is no different than organized hasbarists argument. we know they are out there but since NONE of them identify themselves as working for the israel project or the mfa or israel action network it is fair to assume they blog undercover w/fake identities not disclosing they are zionist infowarfare agents of the official variety. so here’s your logical response to that (paraphrasing):
Does the goi carry out disguised hasbara operations? Probably, but that doesn’t give you licence to declare every pro Israeli poster is some agent just because you don’t want to believe the opposite. You need to provide some evidence of your own before you can dismiss the evidence you are presented with. Conspiracy theories don’t count as evidence in case you were wondering.
but you see i am not claiming every pro israel poster is a professional hired hand. but it is prudent to consider or assume any professional sounding poster is..professional. and it is prudent to consider or assume any professional hit is a false flag. but no, i don’t think it is likely they all are. but it is likely the mossad doesn’t sit around twittling their thumbs all day focusing on insignificant crap that doesn’t even make the news. my guess is they carry out big jobs, therefore big jobs are on the top of the list for consideration.
that’s just the nature of the beast. now to refute my logic all you have to do is present some evidence mossad operations have either ceased, that mossad has a new policy of not being secretive about their operations and has an exposed policy, or something. chances are you have none. just like chances are you have no evidence the hired inforwarriors for israel have a policy of openly identifying themselves online. they don’t and we know they don’t.
i could care less if you call me a conspiracy theorist. given the fact both our governments (US/IS) have well funded intelligence agencies who work undercover i’d say they would all be out of a job if they couldn’t work together planning operations (conspiring) and the pentagon runs psyops operations (they conspire) a huge percentage of our foreign policy is involved in conspiring and undercover action. so anyone who doesn’t even consider what those conspiracies might be is a fool. we don’t have to present evidence conspiracies exist, everyone knows they exist. that’s the nature of the beast.
toodles
Who’s talking about the ‘Arab/Muslim world’?
No one is, ever. They get a free pass to do whatever they want on Mondoweiss.
this is without a doubt one of the dumbest remarks made on this site. they get a free pass on mondoweiss? even if this were true, which it isn’t, what does this ‘free pass’ entitle muslims to? mondoweiss is a grain of sand on a media beach brimming with islamo-phobia and unapologetic racisim. if i spend an hour at the gym (which is the only time i waste my time watching msm news) the majority of coverage of the ‘muslim world’, as if there were such a unified thing, is of the muslims qua terrorists variety. they want to kill us and how are we going to beat in their brains to make them love us. it’s worse than incompetent, it’s intentionally dishonest.
really, DB, go cry your disingenous tears elsewhere. douche.
I challenge you to find a single West Bank Palestinian who thinks the Itamar murders were carried out by Israelis. It’s only the detatched loons on the MondoMoon that come up with this nonsense. I’m not a policeman. I didn’t carry out the investigation, but neither did you. Until you can come up with a credible alternative blah, blah, blah.
speaking of bias, your wilfull ignorance is really superlative. brutal, bloody murders carried out in the midst of a fortified compound with security that is the equal of a military base or a medium security prison, and this doesn’t raise questions in an objective mind as to the ability of a group of pimply faced teenagers to commit this crime, one of whom apparently had surgery immediately prior to the crime? no, thankfully you are not a police officer given your naivite. means, motive, opportunity: two out of three point to a perpetrator within the electrified, razor ringed, video and motion detector equipped, tree high fence. and why anyone would have faith that an objective investigation and prosecution could take place in israel given the political implications of the case is beyond me. i hope that the murderers and caught and prosecuted, no matter their ethnicity. but the official story, given the objective facts, stinks.
that mossad has a new policy of not being secretive about their operations
Or took the word Deception out of their motto.
i agree, that story has enough holes in it to sink an oceanliner. if i had the time i’d go find some of the threads we ran here. amazingly weird crap.
Had Israeli authorities wanted to prove the two teens indeed committed the murders, they could have simply shown the world pictures of cuts on the teens’ bodies, cuts that are inevitable when someone climbs or goes through a razorwire fence.
cuts that are inevitable when someone climbs or goes through a razorwire fence.
cuts that are also routinely found to have been accidentally self-inflicted by amateurs who in a knife-wielding frenzy, stab and slash to death five people.
“Occam’s razor says the most likely answer is usually the right one.”
No it doesn’t. It says that when hypotheses are otherwise equal (especially in explanatory power) select the one that invokes the fewest new assumptions or entitites.
you’re so smart RoHa, how’dja git like that?
;)
By a steady diet of entitites, and sedulous avoidance of entities.
@marc b, Annie, et al
The challenge stands. Find a single West Bank Palestinian who claims these murders were carried out by Israelis.
You’re so out of touch with reality, you can’t even empathize with the people you claim to support.
yes, gf, i’ll get on a plane right now to poll ‘west bank palestinians’ and report back to you. how about this instead? we look at the known facts of the case, and draw the logical conclusions from those facts. that’s how criminal investigations and prosecutions are supposed to be conducted in a just society, not through the collective intimidation and punishment of local palestinians, and not by interviewing the various demographic groups in israel to determine their personal opinion of the case.
*intermission*
i’m back from the west bank now. my poll of 1400 west bank palestinians found that 43% believe that the murders were committed by israelis, 39% believe that the murders were committed by osama bin laden, and 18% have no opinion. now what?
GF, annie didn’t say that the Itamar murders were a Mossad false flag.
She was responding to DGB’s general claim.
“I challenge you to find a single West Bank Palestinian who thinks the Itamar murders were carried out by Israelis.”
What the West Bankers think is not proof that the murders were committed by Palestinians or by Israelis.
“Until you can come up with a credible alternative … you have nothing to say.”
Wrong. You need to learn a bit of logic. It is possible to show that a claim is false without offering an alternative claim.
There seems to be dust on Mars. I can say that this is probably not because someone has been emptying vacuum cleaner bags there. I do not have to offer an alternative explanation for the dust.
In the case of Itamar, it seems highly unlikely that the murderers could have come from outside. We can say that the official story is probably not true, even if we do not know the true story.
“i’m back from the west bank now. my poll of 1400 west bank palestinians found that 43% believe that the murders were committed by israelis, 39% believe that the murders were committed by osama bin laden, and 18% have no opinion. now what?”
Wow, it’s really that easy for you to make up facts to support your views? I’m impressed. Oh wait, I can do that too. 68% of people reading your post think you just shot yourself in the foot by making stuff up instead of bringing any real evidence and the rest didn’t expect much anyway.
I’ll make it easy for you. You don’t have to fly to the West Bank (I understand how unnerving the thought of meeting a real Palestinian would be for you). Just find me a quote from the internet from a reputable news source where a West Bank Palestinian is quoted as saying that the Itamar murders were carried out by Israelis.
gf, apparently you are hopelessly confused as to what constitutes ‘real evidence’ in a criminal case, and have a tin ear when it comes to obvious sarcasm. as i and others have already pointed out, repeatedly, neither the opinion of a single ‘West Bank Palestinian’, as evidenced by a quote on the internet, nor the collective opinion of ‘West Bank Palestinians’, as evidenced by some informal poll you seem to think you have conducted, mean jack sh*t in the context of a criminal investigation.
have a nice day.
GF is Israeli. Criminal investigations always take a back seat to political agenda over there. GF is just hammering that point home.
‘GF is Israeli’.
is that it? i thought it might have been a language problem, but now looking at his comments they are so loaded with qualifiers that nothing could satisfy his demands. ‘a reputable [internet] source’, ‘a west bank palestinian’, etc. presumably any source provided would not have proven ‘reputable’ enough, and no doubt he would have been demanding a certified copy of an israeli government-issued photographic ID for any alleged (unnerving) ‘west bank palestinian’ cited. it is just bizarre that gf has convinced himself that the poll he conducted in his head should have any bearing on a criminal investigation or a lay person’s logical analysis of the facts. guilt by popular vote, huh. sounds like science fiction.
Any excuse to demonize liberals, huh? What we’re quashing are the FAKE videos you keep regurgitating at us. I’d like you to post this nonsense on the threads we have condemning Hamas for praising bin Laden posthumously. It would save people a few extra steps in determining how silly and spurious your statements are.
Really? You think Obama timed this to detract from May Day? Let me be the first to say that is a fantastic conspiracy theory.
(1) [taking the last first] You want fantastic conspiracy theories? Israel invented them. It lives and breathes on paranoia.
(2) Obama has a bigger time-bomb than May Day. He has June, when the Fed has to stop printing money to maintain the financial system.
Borrowing from GuiltyFeat’s book of tricks, I see. Stay classy.
So…. you condemn the dancing?
When did you stop beating your wife?
I have no problem with people expressing joy at Osama Bin Laden’s death; I share that emotion. It should not be seen as a vindication of American policy, either before or after 9/11, however.
How about upon learning Dick Chaney keeled over for good in the middle of the night?
In a truly just world Cheney, Bush, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Feith, Clinton etc would be lined up right behind Osama based on supporting and the killing of innocent people
>> In a truly just world Cheney, Bush, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Feith, Clinton etc would be lined up right behind Osama based on supporting and the killing of innocent people
In a truly just world, all of the former (and more) would already have been tried, sentenced and incarcerated, and Slick B. would be next.
In a truly just world, Stalin, Truman and Churchill would have been sentenced to death at the Nuremberg trials, together with the Nazi leadership. FDR and Hitler were already dead.
line em up. How many Iraqi children died due to sanctions?
Hey some of the WW II war criminals were held accountable. There is still time for Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Feith, Cheney etc
Darn you, Citizen. Why must you confront me with such a moral dilemma? :)
Have to admit that that might me to dance out in front of the White House as sick as that is. Cheney, Feith, and team are responsible for the deaths of far more innocent people than Osama. Clinton has a ton of blood on her hands also. She is one arrogant killer
How about upon learning Dick Chaney keeled over for good in the middle of the night?
or tragically took a face full of buckshot from one of his buddies in a hunting accident?
Amazing to hear how many times MSNBC’s Joe Scarborough, Maria Schaivo Campo, Richard Engel as well as others continue to link Iraq to 9/11. On Monday I heard Scarborough say that “those who have lost family members in Iraq and Afghanistan and those who have lost limbs should be able to find comfort in this”
On Monday MSNBC’s Maria Schaivo Campo blamed the deaths in Iraq on Osama.
MSNBC’s Richard Engel compared the words used when Saddam was found “we got him” to the words used when Osama either killed himself or JSOC killed him “we got him” Again linking Iraq and 9/11.
NPR’s Rami Kouri Beirut linked 9/11 and Iraq on Monday.
Then today (Tuesday) Scarborough called Osama and KSM cowards for sending young men and women to their deaths. How fucking absurd. Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith, Rumsfeld, Clinton etc sent thousands of American soldiers to their deaths in Iraq as well as being very much the reason that hundreds of thousands have been killed and injured in Iraq.
The whole world is witness to the double standards placed on human life say for instance the innocent life lost in the 9/11 attack versus the loss of life as a direct result of the invasion of Iraq by our leaders?
So absurd that Secretary of State Clinton or President Obama can say “grievous attacks on innocent people” with straight faces.
Kathleen, in case you need the links.
VP Cheney in 2006 TV interview with Tony Snow saying they had no proof Osama Bin Laden had anything to do with 911:
link to youtube.com
The transcript of that quote, from the White House website archive:
So we’ve never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden [sic] was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming.
link to j.mp
Now this is interesting. Makes me think about my literally hundreds of hours of conversations with a young man from Afghanistan on a Fulbright here at Ohio University. Spoke five languages. He said that the government of Afghanistan had asked the Bush administration to send documented proof that OBL had his fingerprints on the 9/11 attacks. He claimed that the Bush administration could not send any documented proof and that was why they were unwilling to capture him and hand him over to the US. Interesting. he is dead now.
Just wish they would apply those same standards of accountability to the Iraq warmongers
Interview with Jeremy Scahill, Robert Fisk over at Democracy Now. Scahill expresses my feelings far better than I can
link to democracynow.org
Scahill “On the other side of this, though, I think there’s another reaction. I found it quite disgusting to see people chanting, like it was some sort of sporting event, outside of the White House. I think it was idiotic. Let’s remember here, hundreds of thousands of people have died. Iraq was invaded, a country that had nothing to do with al-Qaeda, nothing to do with Osama bin Laden. The United States created an al-Qaeda presence in Iraq by invading it, made Iran a far more influential force in Iraq than it ever would have been. We have given a grand motivation to people around the world that want to do harm to Americans in our killing of civilians, our waging of war against countries that have no connection to al-Qaeda, and by staying in these countries long after the mission was accomplished. Al-Qaeda was destroyed in Afghanistan, forced on the run. The Taliban have no chance of retaking power in Afghanistan. And so, I think that this is a somber day where we should be remembering all of the victims, the 3,000 people that died in the United States and then the hundreds of thousands that died afterwards as a result of a U.S. response to this that should have been a law enforcement response and instead was to declare war on the world.”
>> ” … I think that this is a somber day where we should be remembering all of the victims, the 3,000 people that died in the United States and then the hundreds of thousands that died afterwards as a result of a U.S. response to this that should have been a law enforcement response and instead was to declare war on the world.”
A-f*cking-men!!
Pakistan provided shelter for Osama but Obama and team providing “shelter” for the Iraq war thugs and killers. Whats the difference?
Bush, Cheney and war team responsible for the deaths of far more people.
Oh, please.
Of course Kathleen, Al-qaeda never killed anyone in Iraq, right? It was all America with Israel pulling the strings, right?
And next you’ll tell us we really should be blaming Ahmedinejad for all this, right Robby? Idiocy takes the shortest path to repetition.
Why are Zionists so completely incoherent? It’s like their thought process is a blender on HIGH with no cover. It just splashes the same homogenous mush everywhere with no rhyme or reason.
Heard MSNBC’s Maria Schaivo Campo, Joe Scarborough, Npr’s Rami Kouri try to do exactly that the last few days. Rachel Maddow has been a mad woman the last few nights. OBL is the worst terrorist on the planet, everyone hates him, you hate him, I hate him, she has literally been insane. Telling people what to think and how they feel. I am starting to think she is as bad as some of the Fox people on the right.
Wednesday I have to give it to MSNBC’s Mika Brezinski during a conversation with Senator Clair McCasgill she was very careful to separate OBL, 9/11 and Afghanistan . She was very clear in her distinction. But still no MSMers willing to go near our double standard for the OBL’s crimes against humanity and the Bush administrations crimes against humanity. The difference. Bush and his kill team killed far more innocent people
Two smart comments, Kathleen.
Yeah as a European alot of elements of America’s psyche concerns me. Wondering Jew said alot of what I was thinking a few comments up. As a European I sometimes look at the US and can’t help the feeling that something really bad is going to happen to it over the next 50 years.
So much hyper patriotism mixed with such massive gun ownership mixed with a militant security force mixed with a deeply religious culture mixed with huge areas of ghetto style poverty.
The makeup of American society just seems really unstable to me.
I used to live in SoCal. All Americans, black white and beige, are told from the moment they make their Hitler Oath, er, I mean Pledge of Allegiance, Amurka is the finest, fairest, freeest place in the Solar System and the rest of the world is just jealous.
speaking of china, people’s daily online is reporting a pakistani version of obl’s death.
more @ moa.
notice nobody actually gets to see osama dead? a little weird. notice how the china article is completely different than the UK and US narrative. back to china/pakistan’s version:
strange?
very strange. the bin laden compound was apparently within meters of a military training facility, and stuck out like a sore thumb on account of its size and security. and we’re supposed to believe that, as the script develops, that ‘enhanced interrogation’ of prisoners at guantanamo led to the discovery of BL? if it was BL who was killed, who could believe that the ISI or CIA was unaware of his presence from the beginning? it’s like timothy mcveigh on the lam setting up camp in a circus tent just outside of west point. and supposedly BL was double tapped (one in the head and one in the chest) in the midst of a fire fight. right.
and here is a news report on musharraf’s prior knowledge, as reported in his autobiography, of an al-queda ‘safe house’ located in abbotabad. this is just bizarre stuff.
link to ndtv.com
>> Official Bin Laden Story Changes in Various Places
>> Initially, officials said bin Laden participated in the firefight. Now, they say that he did not have a weapon in his hand, so he could not return fire. Also, the position of the bullets has moved; rather than two shots to the head, it was one to the head and another to the chest.
more surrealism:
link to dailymail.co.uk
Pakistan has admitted its embarrassment at intelligence failures which allowed the world’s most wanted man to live freely in its midst.
The Inter-Services Intelligence agency claims not to have known the whereabouts of Osama Bin Laden despite him living in a $1m compound in Abbottabad.
But since the elimination of the terrorist mastermind by U.S. special forces on Sunday morning, the country has faced difficult questions over how he escaped justice for possibly as long as six years.
Further embarrassment followed today when the BBC interviewed a 12-year-old boy who said he used to visit the building where Bin Laden had died and had met the Al Qaeda leader’s family.
‘I used to go to their house. He had two wives, one spoke Arabic, and the other one spoke Urdu. They had three children, a girl and two boys. They gave me two rabbits. They had installed a camera at the outer gate so they could see people before they entered the house,’ Zarar Ahmed said.
It also emerged today that other local children thought something may be amiss – and regularly made a profit from the presence of the terrorist mastermind.
‘If a football went into bin Laden’s compound the children would not be allowed to get it,’ said local ice cream vendor Tanvir Ahmed.
‘They were given money instead; 100-150 rupees ($2-$3) per ball.’
‘i used to share hummous and fresh lemonade with bin laden’s sons after a few hours on the pitch. once i overheard him plotting the bombing of a nursery school in london, but he gave me a fiver if i promised not to tell anyone.’
Operation launched by Pakistani forces? Pakistani helicopter? don’t buy it one bit, there are published photos of the tail rotor section of the wreckage and it has radar deflection features ie stealth…
there are published photos of the tail rotor section of the wreckage and it has radar deflection features
link
Stealth Helos Used In Osama Raid
Thank you for this Sarah.
As a middle easterner, I’ve had very similar feelings for the last two days: link to sidewalklyrics.com
@annie,
It’s taken a while, but I see how nearly any intervention I make here in the direction of (for me) common sense is used by supporters of Israeli policy as a start off point to demonize this site in general and support for Palestinian rights.
Damn them.
But if I silence myself, is that not a victory for the hasbarists too?
The show of jingoism has become such a farce.
It’s nice to know that the thousands who died in Iraq and Afghanistan and the thousands more who were vilified and scapegoated across the Middle East and South Asia remain unacknowledged.
Felled, and this brings us back to the question, why didn’t they capture OBL and put him on public trial? Imagine what breaking news to the American masses an OBL defense would put up. Would be ten times better than Wikileaks in informing them of how their government operates, and for whom, and shed light on “why they hate us.” And, anybody remember the trial of Noriega? link to nytimes.com
“… this brings us back to the question, why didn’t they capture OBL and put him on public trial? Imagine what breaking news to the American masses an OBL defense would put up.”
If you believe in the potency of the Israel-First Principle, one very strong argument against a public trial was concern that Israel’s (alleged) complicity in the 9/11 attack would receive a full public airing. Not good for the Lobby, not good for Zionism, not good. Case closed.