As the second “Freedom Flotilla” to Gaza attempts to overcome the various obstacles in its way, the Israeli security establishment is busy trying to confuse people about the economic situation in Gaza. There’s just one big problem with their strategy: a cable written by a U.S. diplomat about the Gaza blockade makes any Israeli propaganda claim about the Gaza Strip moot.
Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak recently said that the flotilla of ships set to sail to break the Israeli naval blockade was unnecessary because “there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza.” Similarly, Israel Defense Forces chief Benny Gantz told a group of Israeli reservists that Palestinians in Gaza are “importing televisions and plasma screens, and exporting agricultural products to the entire Arab world.”
The message, in so many words, is that life in Gaza is just fine, and that there is no need for flotillas to challenge the Israeli blockade.
But this State Department cable, published by WikiLeaks and written in October 2008 from the U.S. embassy in Tel Aviv, should put the kibosh on Israel’s claims about the economic situation in Gaza (my emphasis):
Israeli officials have confirmed to Embassy officials on multiple occasions that they intend to keep the Gazan economy functioning at the lowest level possible consistent with avoiding a humanitarian crisis…
While the [Israeli government] believes that maintaining the shekel as the currency of the Palestinian Territories is in Israel’s interests, it treats decisions regarding the amount of shekels in circulation in Gaza as a security matter. Requests by Palestinian banks to transfer shekels into Gaza are ultimately approved, partially approved, or denied by the National Security Council (NSC), an organ of the Israeli security establishment, not by the Bank of Israel (BOI). As part of their overall embargo plan against Gaza, Israeli officials have confirmed to econoffs on multiple occasions that they intend to keep the Gazan economy on the brink of collapse without quite pushing it over the edge
What the cable reports–that Israel is deliberately keeping Gaza’s economy “on the brink of collapse”–is exactly why the “Freedom Flotilla” is seeking to break Israel’s blockade.
It hasn’t gotten any better since that cable was written. This June 2011 report from the United Nations Relief and Works Agency details the human cost of the Israeli siege on Gaza:
As the Gaza blockade moves into its fifth year, a new report by the UN’s agency for Palestine refugees, UNRWA, says broad unemployment in the second half of 2010 reached 45.2 per cent, one of the highest in the world. The report released today, finds that real wages continued to decline under the weight of persistently high unemployment, falling 34.5 per cent since the first half of 2006.
“These are disturbing trends,” said UNRWA spokesman Chris Gunness, “and the refugees, which make up two-thirds of Gaza’s 1.5 million population were the worst hit in the period covered in this report. It is hard to understand the logic of a man-made policy which deliberately impoverishes so many and condemns hundreds of thousands of potentially productive people to a life of destitution.”
Those facts–Gaza’s dire unemployment and Israel’s deliberate strategy to keep it that way–are why Israel will have to keep facing flotilla after flotilla until the blockade of Gaza is no more.
Alex Kane, a freelance journalist currently based in Amman, Jordan, blogs on Israel/Palestine at alexbkane.wordpress.com, where this post originally appeared. Follow him on Twitter @alexbkane.
Thanks, Alex for taking us through the Hasbara smokescreen. So, the Israelis have been orchestrating an ongoing crisis, but keeping it just not-quite-so-bad to warrant outside intervention. Like a cat toying with, but not quite killing, a mouse.
Well, this certainly warrants our attention.
I don’t know why this one got to me.
Shame on Israel.
“keeping it just not-quite-so-bad to warrant outside intervention”. A definition of the “Ghetto”.
Unlike Rwanda,Sarajevo or Hungary(44), the Zionists have had the luxury of the slow, generational genocide Bob Marley described, but I fear their Soviet moment is rapidly approaching. The Germans started out seeking transfer of the hated minority(sound familiar, Lieberman?) to the East. 12 years later as events spiraled out of their control (WWII), it was transformed into something else.
As their strategic situation deteriorates, the Israeli’s Soviet moment will arrive, when their Reds are 400 Km away and the next phase of genocide will begin in earnest. The world will wring it’s hands. How did this happen? We may even hear “Never again”, again for the Ump-teeth time?
The problem originates here. Flotillas of some sort should be targeting DC, Obama and the DNC, not Gaza. Republicans as well. We have an economic crisis unparalleled in our life times which is leverage, a huge advantage. This is the time to deny them the ability to continue to govern and this issue and many others will fade into obscurity. Deny them the ability to continue to govern every day
Hej!
another zinger alex, keep em coming
Bookmark this one and toss it at the ZioClowns whenever they make crap up about obesity rates and night clubs and such in Gaza.
“No Humanitarian Crisis in Gaza”.
That’s what all the paid aipac agents on this site keep telling us too.
They’re ALWAYS on message and distributed memo of the day, word for word. That’s how you can tell them apart from the other zionist idiots who do it ‘for israel’ (lying for free that is).
Matt Lee of AP, I hope you’re reading this. Now is a good time to mention this WikiLeaks cable at the daily U.S. State Department briefing. BTW, keep up the good work.
Why cannot Israel operate in their own best interest? Case in point:
“The GOIs monetary policy towards Gaza is consistent with its declaration that Gaza is a “hostile entity.” Some observers have told Emboffs that political pressure arising from the issue of captured Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit, may have influenced high-level Israeli officials to tighten their stance on monetary policy (see ref &A8). However, this has not been raised or confirmed by any high-level GOI contacts. The GOI position on cash to Gaza has remained negative since the Knessets declaration that it was a hostile entity.”
In other words, the Bush State Department thought Israel was being irrational. What does the tightening imply?
“The PA contends that Hamas, ability to pay its workers, salaries each month combined with the inability of the PA to do so causes further deterioration in support for PA/Fatah relative to Hamas (reftel &I8).”
Then there’s this:
“*** **** (strictly protect), a high-ranking official in the Israeli security establishment, commented to Econcouns in October that at least 1.8 billion shekels are currently unaccounted for in Gaza.”
The USG recommends not putting Gaza on a diet:
“In the meantime, we believe the USG should continue to encourage the Israelis to approve as much funding as possible each month, consistent with our mutual political/security objectives in Gaza.”
The effect of all this particularly now that:
1. Gaza has twice the unemployment of the Great Depression.
2. Gaza is operating in a all cash economy that is:
3. Mostly underground
4. Private sector growth is nil because of the diet resulting in:
5. What economic growth there is in Hamas patronage jobs
6. The unity deal has elections coming up this Fall
Guess who’s going to win? If there was a plan to benefit Hamas as much as possible this is it. The Obama State Department needs to re-iterate the Bush State Department. Again:
“In the meantime, we believe the USG should continue to encourage the Israelis to approve as much funding as possible each month, consistent with our mutual political/security objectives in Gaza.”
Plan B. Have the UN declare the currency of Gaza and the West Bank be U.S. dollars. That’s the de facto currency in Israel anyway. Then Israel couldn’t play their “diet” games.
hi richb. sorry for the OT. just thought i’d mention i noticed your That’ll Do today, and the rec. you can always say it to me directly if you agree w/team shalom i am an anti semite.
As you know I was looking for a common phrase between this site and a site that will go unmentioned (you know what it is). Volleyboy claimed to start his slander of this site because he allegedly Googled and found a person who posted both here and on the unmentionable site. As you are aware, I was lied to by a couple of Kossacks but I was chastised and I apologized since they weren’t Team Shalom members.
This time, however, I took Team Shalom members at their word that this was truly a commonality. I knew I should have punched through and caught the thread. Having done so this morning I discovered (surprise surprise) I was lied to yet again but this time by Team Shalom. Fool me once…
So, my apologies. Sorry. I left the right to get away from all the lying. Guess I need to remain vigilant irrespective of the context.
needless to say i wasn’t popular there but i did try to follow all the rules. they know exactly what i think about hasbarists and i have never lied about it in fact i stated exactly what i thought until i found out it was against the rules to imply, suggest or accuse anyone of being any kind of official agent. so, after that when i used the term i used it the way it is used in hebrew which doesn’t imply anyone is any kind of agent. the translation of hasbara is ‘to explain’ so basically anyone explaining or defending the goi position is disseminating hasbara and i used it that way thereafter until even that became against the rules. so volley was lying. the times i used it there after i got hr’d for using it was when i used it the way it’s used in israel, and i still got punished for it.
but that’s a tiny issue. the accusation of ‘hatred of jews’ is disgusting and no one stops them. i have no idea who this shergard person is but it’s a lie to pretend i was banned there because of anti semitism. i was banned there because i linked (to volley) to an essay here by jon s on zionism. on more than one occasion i suggested to him he should write a diary on zionism, his version of it. because he had this ‘ideal’ and that wasn’t what people were seeing when they looked at it (israel’s critics anyway). the sin of that, as many posters are probably aware, volleys email name is jon with a last name beginning w/an s. so MB wrote me and told me i had ‘outted him’. i didn’t get to see the discussion in the comments after my massive faux pas (snark) but that was the sin, and now they act like i got outted for some slanderous reason.
prior to that ms sofia went on a witch hunt and accused me of being a sockpuppet. i hired a lawyer because i knew i wasn’t. they act like they investigate those claimes their using ip addresses or something so i figured either someone was going to massive trouble to impersonate me and my i/p address or this was all just bogus cooked up crap as they continued to make smears about me (on anti depressants or something, some drug smear) and pretend i was ‘coming back’ w’different names (as if i can’t live without that cesspool of zio attacks). they thought i was stupid but i’m not and i have lots of proof and goood witnesses of being in intimate social engagements while this ‘sockpuppet’ of mine was posting. once i was even on an airplane. as soon as i sent the letter wrt hiring a lawyer around to volley and others the ban was lifted. they were just trying to get rid of me so allegedly ‘outing’ volley was a mere excuse. later i read MB said something like if i worked it out w/volley i could come back. why would i want to do that? for all things i/p this site is better by miles and miles. i still read them sometimes but i don’t miss them in the least.
another thing to consider. dkos is the largest political site in the US. the david project, the israel action network, aipac, israel project all of those groups hire people to make sure there is a constant zionist presence on blogs. why on earth would they skip dkos? the notion is ridiculous. they are there and the zionist narrative rules the discourse there. they are bullies and some of them lie w/impunity.
i never hid the fact i thought this, i just didn’t say it again after i found out it was against the rules.
they are obsessed w/this site and they all read it (obviously). they want to make it against the rules to reference. they can’t compete w/phil and adam and they know it. they are boring and mean and rude and the i/p diaries there will never be a magnet for progressive jewsih discourse in this country. ever. this site on the other hand is one of the foremost blogs for progressive jewish readers and that drives them nuts.
oh, there are other people who post on both sites and they are not all pro p’s, some are zionists. a little birdie told me.
Thanks for the background. הסברה is its own worst enemy. People like Jon are moving not only progressive Jewish eyeballs here but also progressive Christian ones like myself. I would call it laughably incompetent except that it can cause real anti-Semitism. If Jon represents all Jewish opinion vis-a-vis Israel and people like myself who have seen first-hand how evil the Israeli government is then we improperly conclude that all Jews are complicit in it. That’s why you and Phil are the antidote to anti-Semitism. You honor both the Jewish and Progressive traditions.
שלום חברים
actually my ‘background’ w/volley is much more involved than that. one time he accused me of demanding every zionist register w/the state department as a foreign agent and threw a huge fit that lasted for days. he lied over and over and accused me of all this stuff and then after MB got involved via email he claimed it was resolved or something putting words in MB’s mouth (it wasn’t) to the point of MB coming onto the thread and telling all the people reccing his lies about me they would be held responsible too. i could go find it but it would take me awhile, it was unbelieveable and covered numerous threads.
People like Jon are moving not only progressive Jewish eyeballs here but also progressive Christian ones like myself. I would call it laughably incompetent except that it can cause real anti-Semitism. If Jon represents all Jewish opinion vis-a-vis Israel and people like myself who have seen first-hand how evil the Israeli government is then we improperly conclude that all Jews are complicit in it.
there’s no way jon or any of the other ziobots on dkos represent all jews, not even all zionists. at all. they just position themselves as being in some ‘moderating’ or ‘moderate’ voice and they are anything but, many are inciters, manipulating bloviators. they just cannot stand the power this site has and they are jealous. i was already in deep w/this site before i was banned there and have always been much more comfortable here. i’m not a fan of the ‘reward/punish’ system, it’s too gang oriented. there’s a lord of the flies mentality. i got an email yesterday from a longtime poster there who also reads this site (i hope/he/she won’t mind me reposting this):
there’s no way jon or any of the other ziobots on dkos represent all jews, not even all zionists. at all. they just position themselves as being in some ‘moderating’ or ‘moderate’ voice and they are anything but, many are inciters, manipulating bloviators. they just cannot stand the power this site has and they are jealous.
What helped is I have progressive Jewish friends in real life. So, I knew the real story before going to DK. In fact, I was taken aback of how unrepresentative DK is of even Jewish opinion. One woman I know gets Israeli and Palestinian girls and sends them to summer camps in the Colorado mountains. A recent comment she told me I would like to run past you. She said a lot of the problem is this issue is so male dominated. I noticed that there was more female activists recently in the Arab Spring and the positive influence that has had. Is this also true in the Jewish community?
well, there’s rebecca at jvp, medea jody and rae @ code pink (caveat, i don’t know if jody is jewish), naomi,phylis, the list goes on and on. certainly here in the bay area i could list name after name of local influencial female jewish voices..so heck there are tons of jewish women in the progressive side. perhaps your friend meant wrt the american zionists community. but the uber zionist crowd has some fiery toxic women in it. that glick character for one.
I did an experiment and Googled “American Jewish ambassadors in Europe”. Top 5 hits:
1. RadioIslam
2. Mondoweiss.net
3. European Union of Jewish Students
4. Wikipedia
5. Georgetown University
This Googling meme is pure BS.
there’s a really good article from jewish week ( can’t find it but i’ve linked to it here and so have others) circa sometime in the 90′s bragging about all the jewish influence in the state department listing at least 10 people and bragging about their rise. has a choice quote my martin indyk. can’t find it but someone else has it stashed and linked to it about 6 weeks ago, it keeps resurfacing.
“That’s the de facto currency in Israel anyway.”
I love it when “peace activists” operate with outdated information.
Surely it greatly increases their chances for any positive changes. Not.
I love it when Ziofascists manage to ignore the elephant on the room by talking about the wallpaper.
Elephant?
Gaza is ruled by internationally-recognized terrorist organization.
They have no rights.
Everyone has rights. Unless you’re a follower of a Stalin or Hilter.
It is a serious philosophical question, which expands way beyond the scope of this topic.
In short: No rights are granted. All “human rights” which we have today were invented by humans and for humans.
However it takes two for tango, which means that all sides have to agree that everybody has such and such rights.
In our case Gaza strip is ruled by Hamas, which is internationally-recognized terroristic organization which recognizes human rights whatsoever – show me just one example of Hamas applying human rights to any human being (although I’m sure you won’t find any) and I’ll find you 100 examples where it actively denies any human rights.
Basically what I’m saying is that it is suicidal to give any rights to those who actively refuse the very possibility that others have such rights too.
It’s simple. Israel is a signatory and ratifier to a number of international conventions and treaties on human rights and is subject to customary international law. Therefore, it has obligations regarding human rights, even if the person opposing them would not return the favor.
Ok.
So now we are coming back to initial question.
Specifically – how bad life in Gaza should be so it could be considered beyond minimal human rights requirements, while keeping in mind that it is ruled by terrorist organization.
For a meanwhile there is NO humanitarian crisis it Gaza Strip, which means people are not dying of starvation, have access to fresh water and some basic medical assistance.
So these flotillas are basically trying not to prevent a humanitarian disaster, but improve quality of life, which could not be allowed to a entity being ruled but recognized terrorist organization.
You made a number of unsupported factual assertions here.
First, regardless of Hamas’s role, the Gaza Strip is still occupied by Israel, so Israel’s obligations are that of an occupier, including all of those in international law. The fact that Hamas has a governing role is irrelevant to Israeli’s obligations.
But if you want to play the “what is the minimum” game; then Israeli, in my mind, must, at a minimum, provide for unimpeded travel to and from Gaza for its people and commerce. How’s that for a starter?
Second, there most definately is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. See, e.g., the International Red Cross document recently discussed at length. The denial of that crisis is nothing more than a cynical, and rather inhumane ploy, premised on the notion that so long as there isn’t starvation, that anything done to the Gazan civilians by Israel is fine. That notion is, itself, evil and unlawful.
Finally, there is no distinguishment to be made between “trying to prevent a humanitarian disaster” on the one hand and “improv[ing] quality of life” on the other. There absolutely is an on-going humanitarian disaster being caused by the Israeli government and people. And the flotilla is trying to end that man-made disaster. Ending the illegal blockade will have the effect of improving the quality of life, but so does giving a piece of bread to a starving man.
Only a fool would say that improving the quality of life for the Gazan people, given the economic, social, medical, and physical tortures they are under by the Israelis, is an illegitimate goal.
Now, if you correct your factual falsehoods, then perhaps a real discussion can begin.
But if you cling to your fantasies that labeling Hamas a “terrorist organization” means anything — that it is a talisman which changes the dynamic of international human rights obligations — then you’re dooming this conversation. Hamas is a “terrorist organization.” Big deal. So is the Israeli government. The fact that Hamas is a terrorist organization does not give Israel carte blanche to target the Gazan civilians. I care about the people of Gaza, the people who the Israelis are harming.
Unless you’re a follower of a Stalin or Hilter.
Lightbringer does self-identify as an anarchist- fascist.
link to mondoweiss.net
Now you are the one who makes unsupported factual assertions.
You can not disregard Hamas’ role because in this unique situation occupier controls boundaries and airspace, but has no control whatsoever of what’s going on inside the Strip.
Besides that, accordingly to international law both occupier and occupied have to comply with the law of occupation, which is clearly NOT what’s going on – Hamas enjoys unprecedented level of independence for an occupied party.
Situation in and around Gaza Strip is unique by any international legislation standard and should be treat as such.
I seriously doubt that there is a law which states that occupying party is obliged to provide for unimpeded travel.
As of commerce – to allow commerce to flourish would mean assisting Hamas both directly by tax money and indirectly by allowing them to celebrate another victory over Zionist enemy.
Now that is up to international law experts to analyze the situation regarding current occupation status, actions by both parties, etc. and to define how much food and other supplies are absolutely necessary to avoid any humanitarian crisis.
However the International Red Cross are not international law experts, and their opinion regarding alleged violations of international law is hardly of any value.
Besides, there is Israeli solder who is have not been allowed a visit by IRC for 5 years and it does not seem that someone in IRC gives a damn so I don’t see any reason why their opinion worth any noticing.
Only a fool would expect Party A to help Party B which has declared war on Party A
All Gazans have to do to get immediate improvements is to declare peace with Israel.
Huh
You want me to give up and only after that, perhaps, a real discussion could begin.
But if I already have lost all my positions, what good is this discussion for?
Well…
It is the very international community who actually label Hamas and define human rights. Now, you are stating that disregarding of who Hamas actually are, they are entitled to the same treatment as any other legitimate entity. Debatable statement it is. Again an opinion of international law experts is required.
But the fact that Israeli government is terrorist organization DOES gives Hamas carte blanche to target Israeli civilians, does it not?
You are free to care about anything you please, but as long as people of Gaza support war against Israel there will be casualties on both sides, and I – as any other Israeli, will put my best effort to ensure that most of casualties will be of opposing forces.
P.S. I can’t grasp this one:
At other hand you are at pursuit of international law, while at other hand you support internationally-recognized terrorist organization.
Seems like a bit of quadruple standards to me.
“You can not disregard Hamas’ role because in this unique situation occupier controls boundaries and airspace, but has no control whatsoever of what’s going on inside the Strip.”
I’m not saying to ignore it. I’m saying that simply because Israel took steps which resulted in Hamas taking power does not mean that it is free of its obligations toward the Gazan people. It is not.
“Besides that, accordingly to international law both occupier and occupied have to comply with the law of occupation, which is clearly NOT what’s going on – Hamas enjoys unprecedented level of independence for an occupied party.”
And that is Israel’s decision. It must abide by the consequences of that decision. And, again, even if Hamas abides by no rules of law, that does not mean that Israel is free to do what it wants.
“Situation in and around Gaza Strip is unique by any international legislation standard and should be treat as such.”
Actually, you are correct, but not in the way you believe. Indeed, the entirety of the occupation of post 1967 war land is a sham, designed as an interim solution to the Palestinian question, so that Israelis can pretend to be a modern, enlightened state and society. Those lands are an integrated part of Israel, and the international community should demand that Israel treat them as such, and give all of the residents of those lands full human rights, including the right to vote and full participation in government, free right to travel and residence anywhere in the state, etc.
“I seriously doubt that there is a law which states that occupying party is obliged to provide for unimpeded travel.”
You asked what I believe should be the minimum. I believe that the Israelis are responsible for providing full human rights (including the right to travel) to all, including the Palestinians in Gaza.
“As of commerce – to allow commerce to flourish would mean assisting Hamas both directly by tax money and indirectly by allowing them to celebrate another victory over Zionist enemy.”
I really don’t care. Israel has no right to deny human rights to the entirety of the Gazan people because it is mad at Hamas. That is collective punishment and it is a crime against humanity.
“Now that is up to international law experts to analyze the situation regarding current occupation status, actions by both parties, etc. and to define how much food and other supplies are absolutely necessary to avoid any humanitarian crisis.”
No. It is up to every human being to make that determination for his or her own self.
“However the International Red Cross are not international law experts, and their opinion regarding alleged violations of international law is hardly of any value.”
You have shown yourself, with this statement, to be a clown. The International Red Cross are international law experts, and their opinions are highly regarded by pretty much any nation that isn’t a joke, which doesn’t respect the work of the IRC.
“Besides, there is Israeli solder who is have not been allowed a visit by IRC for 5 years and it does not seem that someone in IRC gives a damn so I don’t see any reason why their opinion worth any noticing.”
If you don’t think that the IRC has taken no interest in Shalit, then you are an ignorant fool. All one has to do is look at their website, where they regularly post updates regarding this issue, including their efforts to obtain visitations and Shalit’s rights.
All this demonstrates is that you are one of those Israelis who don’t judge a thing by the facts, but by the ideology. And because international law would prohibit your tribe from dominating over other people, you reject it – you libel it – because it is more important for you to uphold the ideology than to address the facts. That is an indictment on you.
“Only a fool would expect Party A to help Party B which has declared war on Party A
All Gazans have to do to get immediate improvements is to declare peace with Israel.”
But if Party A is legally obligated to help Party B, then one can rightly hold Party A accountable for its crimes in not upholding the law. Further, the rights to which the Gazan people are afforded under international law are owed, regardless of the political situation between Israel and Palestine. So while you may think that it is okay for Israel to act like a mafia criminal seeking protection money from Gaza, that is a crime against humanity.
“You want me to give up and only after that, perhaps, a real discussion could begin.”
The only thing I want you to give up is the defects which your ideology has caused to your rationality and to give up illusions which blind you to true facts.
“But if I already have lost all my positions, what good is this discussion for?”
Perhaps if you were to lose all of your unfounded, untruthful, evil and unreasonable positions, you would see what discussion is needed at that point. Maybe it is the journey and not the destination which is important.
“It is the very international community who actually label Hamas and define human rights. Now, you are stating that disregarding of who Hamas actually are, they are entitled to the same treatment as any other legitimate entity. Debatable statement it is. Again an opinion of international law experts is required.”
See, here is where your ideology is blinding you. Hamas is not entitled to human rights, just like Israel is not entitled to human rights. These are organizations, not people. It is the people that are entitled to human rights, regardless of whether they are Jews, Arabs, Muslims, Christians, Palestinians, Israelis, whatever.
That is the point. To treat all “Palestinians” as “Hamas” is a crime against humanity.
“But the fact that Israeli government is terrorist organization DOES gives Hamas carte blanche to target Israeli civilians, does it not?”
No. Why would you even think that? What is wrong with you that you would think that this is a true statement or that a person, like me, who has repeatedly stated that the goal is full human rights for every person from the river to the sea, regardless of ethnicity, religion, etc., would agree to such a statement. Really, you need to take your ideological blinders off.
“You are free to care about anything you please, but as long as people of Gaza support war against Israel there will be casualties on both sides, and I – as any other Israeli, will put my best effort to ensure that most of casualties will be of opposing forces.”
The problem, though, is that through bigotry and ideology, you Israelis commit the crime of labeling an entire race as your enemies. What the people of Palestine are entitled to, as is their right, is the full freedoms and human rights which all people are entitled. Too bad the Israelis are too stupid to see that.
“P.S. I can’t grasp this one:
At other hand you are at pursuit of international law, while at other hand you support internationally-recognized terrorist organization.
Seems like a bit of quadruple standards to me.”
Your factual premise — that I support “internationally-recognized terrorist organization” — is false. As I’ve repeatedly stated, I do not support any such organization. And if you believe that every Palestinians can be treated as if he is an active member of such an organization, that is bigotry on your part, and is a crime against humanity when government action is taken in connection with that belief, as with the illegal blockade of the Gazans.
Woody Tanaka,
It might be useful to mention that Israel helped create Hamas. It funded it for years and provided it with weapons, as well. Now, Israel and its supporters whine about Hamas as though it is evil personified. Meanwhile, what Israel attributes to Hamas in terms of rhetoric or statements, Israel itself has implemented and carried out (i.e. ongoing Ethnic Cleansing). But, that’s besides the point as far as Israel’s supporters are concerned because Palestinians are not humans like Jews are, especially Zionist Jews.
Yey Avi’s back!
Hi Taxi :)
good to see you again avi
;)
Thanks, annie. You’ve done good work in the last few days with research on various articles.
Ok.
And these obligations are?
Food, water and medical services? Absolutely yes.
Freedom to travel? Unlikely, since there is gravest security concerns.
Freedom to elect and be elected? Now that is out of Israel control. They elected Hamas, who efficiently disposed of all possible competition – I sure you’ve heard of repressions of Fatah members after the last elections in Gaza strip – and will stay in power as long as they possibly could – which is why, BTW, there is no progress on Palestinian Unity Government.
“Besides that, accordingly to international law both occupier and occupied have to comply with the law of occupation, which is clearly NOT what’s going on – Hamas enjoys unprecedented level of independence for an occupied party.”
And that is Israel’s decision. It must abide by the consequences of that decision. And, again, even if Hamas abides by no rules of law, that does not mean that Israel is free to do what it wants.Israel is not doing what it want or could. Far from that.
At the same token, however, one should realize that being Hamas member could result in most gross consequences.
What lands exactly are integrated part of Israel?
Agreed. But not at the price of security.
So what you are basically saying is that Gazan people are free to wage war on Israel, while Israel have to observe their human rights.
Unlikely.
If it is up to every human being to determine this and that, what international laws are for?
From ICRC website
“The work of the ICRC is based on the Geneva Conventions of 1949, their Additional Protocols, its Statutes … The ICRC is an independent, neutral organization ensuring humanitarian protection and assistance for victims of war and armed violence. It takes action in response to emergencies and at the same time promotes respect for international humanitarian law and its implementation in national law. ”
International law consists not only of Geneva Conventions, besides whatever ICRC report on Gaza Strip could not be trusted since Hamas would not allow any criticism.
uh huh
last time they asked for such visit Hamas reacted by blaming them of supporting Zionists. There is no notion on that on their website.
I could tell the same about you – your ideology is “human rights for everyone” while facts – like some parties totally ignoring that infidel bullshit – are simply not considered.
“Only a fool would expect Party A to help Party B which has declared war on Party A
All Gazans have to do to get immediate improvements is to declare peace with Israel.”
But if Party A is legally obligated to help Party B, then one can rightly hold Party A accountable for its crimes in not upholding the law. Further, the rights to which the Gazan people are afforded under international law are owed, regardless of the political situation between Israel and Palestine. So while you may think that it is okay for Israel to act like a mafia criminal seeking protection money from Gaza, that is a crime against humanity.I seriously doubt that if Party B seeks destruction of Party A, Party A is still obliged to same regulations as if there were no armed conflict.
Meanwhile you are trying to replace my “fascist-anarchist” ideology with “human rights for all” ideology.
Since I’m not considering all bipedal erects – jews, arabs, americans, whoever – to be worthy called “human” this ideology is alien to me.
and what if only some of my positions are unfounded, untruthful and evil, while the rest is extremely well founded, truthful and humane?
First of all – no one treats all Palestinians as Hamas.
Far from that.
Besides that in your statement you are not relating to some real life issues, such as security.
It is really nice to theorize while sitting in a comfy chair few thousand miles away from the conflict zone.
But theories which only take into consideration only small part of the problem are at best worthless and at worst – mortally dangerous.
We label?
It is Hamas who declared war on Israel.
It is the people of Gaza who elected it.
And now we are labeling them as enemy?
whatever.
P.S. People of Gaza is not a race.
P.P.S. People of Gaza entitle to what they vote for, exactly as people of West Bank or people of Israel.
You support the people of Gaza.
The people of Gaza support Hamas.
Therefore, although indirectly, you support Hamas.
And how in your mind we should discriminate a peaceful Palestinian from one with less peaceful intentions?
I know of one, very reliable, method – peaceful Palestinians never explode or kill. The problem with this method is that the cost of every non-peaceful Palestinian detection is human life, and often more than one.
So until you find a reliable solution to our security problem, everything will stay as it is or even worsen.
These are the kind of empty-headed Zionist syllogisms about Palestinians which mirror Goebbels’s speeches about the Jews.
Well done, Lightbringer.
Now that you’ve conclusively demonstrated that Palestinians and particularly those of Gaza are subhumans…
When are you opening up the gas chambers? Starvation is too slow and uncertain a method.
“… Palestinians and particularly those of Gaza are subhumans…”
That’s you who said that, not me.
P.S. I seriously doubt that you’ve ever actually read any of Goebbels’ speeches.
P.P.S. Comments like yours once again prove that whatever Jews do – short of parading straight into the sea or off a steep cliff – will be accepted by some individuals as a crime against humanity while really dreadful atrocities conducted by others are practically allowed.
Rusbbish. Internal Israeli documents revelaed that the sirge has NOTHING to do with security, but is simply an act of economic warfarer againt Hamas e. colective punichment.
apprently you have not heard about the coup that Fatha launched, with US and Israeli backing, to overthow Hamas, which failed and led to Fatah being kicked out of Gaza.
There’s no progress because the US and ISrael are workign overtime to sabotage it.
From the fascists state fo Israel, agreed. Only Israel reserves the right to decide what is legitimate for the Palestinians.
Teh siege has nothig to do with security, just as settlements are not there to serve security.
No, the Gazan people are free to resists Israeli occupation, just like a rapist doesn’t get to claim self defense when the victim fights back.
Supid, alme and baseless argument.
It’s an undisputed fact. All Palestinians are considered terrorirsts and most of those kileld by Israel are not Hamas.
Again, the siege has nothing to do with security.
Israel declared war on the Palesinians ever since 1948.
You support the people of Israel.
The people of Israel support Shas.
Therefore, although indirectly, you support Shas.
And how in your mind we should discriminate a peaceful Israeli from one with less peaceful intentions?
….or drop bombs, white phsophsous, ethnicaly cleanse, evict from homes, demolish homes and commit mass murder and land theft….
You really should read sources.
“Israeli analysis suggests that it is best to deny the terrorist regime a larger pool of funds in Gaza, no matter the origin, preferring to minimize Hamas, ability to purchase weapons or equipment for use against Israeli civilians.”http://www.aftenposten.no/spesial/wikileaksdokumenter/article3972840.ece
Yeah
A coup
“On November 12, a large demonstration dedicated to the memory of late Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat was organized by Fatah in Gaza City. With over 200,000 participants, this was the largest Fatah demonstration in the Gaza Strip since the Hamas takeover. The demonstration was forcibly dispersed by Hamas gunmen, who fired into the crowd. At least six civilians were killed and over 80 people were injured, some from being trampled in the resulting stampede.”
link to en.wikipedia.org
which is why, BTW, there is no progress on Palestinian Unity Government
There’s no progress because the US and ISrael are workign overtime to sabotage it.Got proof?
At the same token, however, one should realize that being Hamas member could result in most gross consequences.
From the fascists state fo Israel, agreed. Only Israel reserves the right to decide what is legitimate for the Palestinians.No my hypocrite friend. Not only Israel.
See first reply.
Of course they are free to resist.
yeah. whatever.
You see, in unsymmetrical warfare, when only one side of the conflict wears uniform, it’s nearly impossible to discriminate civilians and militants.
So only way to maintain security is to consider EVERYBODY a potential militant and than separate civilians one by one,
Again, see first reply.
Palestinians declared war on Jews long before that.
link to en.wikipedia.org
link to youtube.com
Actually I am forced support Shas directly, with my tax money. Really hate it tho.
That’s only because Palestinians do not have all those sophisticated killing machines, not because of their good nature or something.
ah, the hebron massacre again. that explains it
You really should read sources.
Wiki was not my source, McCalthy was.
Israeli document: Gaza blockade isn’t about security | McClatchy
link to mcclatchydc.com
Yeah a coup.
The Gaza Bombshell
“After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current U.S. officials, the author reveals how President Bush, Condoleezza Rice, and Deputy National-Security Adviser Elliott Abrams backed an armed force under Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, touching off a bloody civil war in Gaza and leaving Hamas stronger than ever.”
link to vanityfair.com
Got proof?
I did, it was wrong. See the McCalthy piece. Wikileaks also reveled that Cast Lead had nothign to do with rocket atatcks but Isral’s fear that Hamas were growing stornger politicalyl and a consequence of the existing ceasefire.
Oh that’s right, the US also. A distinction without a difference.
They also have the legal right to do so.
You see, in unsymmetrical warfare, when only one side of the conflict wears uniform, it’s nearly impossible to discriminate civilians and militants.
Irrelevant as Mordecai Gur told Haaretz.
“In South Lebanon we struck the civilian population consciously, because they deserved it…the importance of Gur’s remarks is the admission that the Israeli Army has always struck civilian populations, purposely and consciously…the Army, he said, has never distinguished civilian [from military] targets…[but] purposely attacked civilian targets even when Israeli settlements had not been struck.”
— Israeli military analyst, Ze’ev Schiff (Haaretz, May 15, 1978).
That’s also the only way to ethnicalyl cleanse an population.
You were wrong the and you’re wrong now.
Acually, the Zionists declared war the previous century, when they dec lared that the Palestinians would have to be removed. Israel Zangwill stated as early as 1905, that:
You elected them too.
Similarly, if the Zionists didn’t have them, they’d still be blowing up hotels and massacring villages.
“I love it when “peace activists” operate with outdated information.”
So you agree that what Israel was doing in 2008 was pretty bad.
In 2008 it was doing rather good actually, much better that many other countries.
Last time Israel was in *bad* economic situation was around early 1990-s, with all credit going to socialists and leftist scum.
I hope liberal Jews in the US are reading this. I really do.
Me either.
Now it’s just desceneded into one of the most corrupt states in the developed world, and become an international pariah.
And by your own admission, most of the money is going to Shas.
Real right wing progress there.
I think I’ll refer my Zionist friends to this article the next time I hear about “how the Jews were forced to live in Europe….”
Thanks for the post.