The anxiety hit when I least expected it tonight. We had finished a traditional meal in an organic restaurant in Bir Zeit that was playing techno music, then were walking up the narrow stone road in the old city, under a clear starlit sky, when my friends said I had missed the last bus out of Ramallah to East Jerusalem. So the non-Palestinians said that they would drive me.
Then all the questions arose. Did I have my passport? No. You can explain it, you were stupid, you left it in your hotel.
But what were you doing on the West Bank? We will say we went to the Dead Sea, that's good. Alright, but what did we do there? Had dinner. But where? What is the name of a hotel by the Dead Sea?
The friends said this was routine, but there was anxiety in the front seat too. They live on the Palestinian side. One is Israeli, and it is illegal for him to be here, in Area A. The law is there to protect him, he said with mockery--it is dangerous for Israelis to be in Palestinian areas. So he'd lie about being an Israeli, he had a passport from another country. As for the European in the car--well, we would have to go out of our way to her place and get papers. Oh but the car was not registered in her name--
We did our strategizing as we drove. My Israeli friend called another friend. It was agreed that Qalandiya crossing wouldn’t work. They were sure to ask too many questions. He might be arrested, and given an 8,000 shekel fine (about $2500). It was much better to go through Hizma crossing. That was used mostly by settlers, and so there would be fewer questions. The guards were more likely to shrug at my NY driver’s license.
The drive took an hour. We had to go around the Israeli settlements and the wall jutting into the West Bank, we had to drive back into the Judaean hills. The European woman said that another journalist had done a story about this: is it possible to drive from Ramallah to Hebron, these two big Palestinian cities in the land of the future Palestinian state-- is it possible to go even one minute in the heart of the future Palestinian state without seeing an Israeli presence? The journalist found that it isn't. You can’t go even one minute...
We drove by many soldiers, marking the boundary of Area A and Area C between Ramallah and Qalandiyah, and then again near Hizma crossing. There was a big checkpoint on the other side of the road to keep crazed Israeli Palestinians from driving out from East Jerusalem into the settlement roads. A soldier stood strangely bent over a semiautomatic weapon at the ready, the barrel gleaming in the streetlights. “Pure racial profiling,” said my Israeli friend. And of course a checkpoint on our side too, to keep the Palestinians on the West Bank.
I didn’t even notice the soldier's wave, as we slid through. He did this with his hand, my friend mimed. "Because we look Israeli." Behind us a car with a woman wearing a hijab got pulled over for questioning.
But we were free, in Jerusalem. My heartrate slowed, my soul unwound.
What a different kind of space we had entered. Like an inner suburb in Europe. Broad avenues, brightly lit. Big curvilinear sculptures on the side of the road. A sculpture of a cat and a kitten. Grass verges on the road. The new electric tram to bring settlers into the city from the Jerusalem settlements.
Do you see how much effort is spent to separate the Palestinian area we were in—in Bir Zeit and Ramallah--from the man who lives here, in Pisgat Ze’ev? said my friend. It’s the bubble, I said. No it’s more, it’s psychic, they have no idea of that other world, and they have pushed it away, and they have been doing it since '48.
And let's be clear. I say Jerusalem, but the municipal border is miles east of those 1967 lines that President Obama mentioned back in May, and then had to eat. We passed through several gleaming Jewish neighborhoods built to encircle the city-- Givat Benjamin. French Hill. Pisgat Zeev. Now and then we came flying along the wall, cutting off a piece of the West Bank. And the minaret over the barbed wire. My friend said, The West Bank is also a prison.
From the back seat I offered that when liberal American Zionists come out here and go back home and say that the two state solution is over or in danger, it is Jerusalem that has hit them over the head, this sprawling enmeshing annexing extension of the border. My friend said, The architecture of it is breathtaking, you just have to study it. And I always call it Jim Crow, to be safe for American readers; but really when you are driving an hour out of your way past the hilltop settlements and the divided roads, and the barbed wire festooned with tattered plastic bags and the wall and the guard towers, you think of apartheid, and of ancient ghettoes in Europe. Though I am not sure who is more ghettoized....
My Israeli friend despairs for the Jews. There are so few of us in the world; and look what we have done here. I reminded him of the Zygmunt Baumann interview that appeared in the Hebrew press not long ago, the Polish philosopher who survived the Holocaust, and what for me was the most haunting line in it. Israel is achieving what Hitler dreamed of: he wanted the world to hate Jews.
The world is here. That’s one surprise about my first day in Israel and Palestine. I am seeing more international journalists than ever before. Italy. Sweden. France. England. Some have come for the statehood initiative-- the big billboards that say, We can dismantle injustice. These journalists love the story. And really it is an amazing story-- just the architecture of East Jerusalem, of racial separation and colonization and cultural anxiety and persecution. Some day the American press will discover it.
My friends dropped me off in Sheikh Jarrah. But their night wasn't over. They had to get home. They decided to go Qalandiyah.
Thank you and so good that you decided to go at this historic time Phil -keep your reports coming- so many angles to explore from there.
Seconded! Great Post.
And let me say, on behalf of the goyim here, we know these people don’t speak for world jewry. But maybe this newly found sense of urgency/ anxiety mentioned here will lead to the the “jewish spring” my man phils writes/dreams about! And that would be alllllllright
The irony of it is that the Zios will look at these pictures of the dirty, ramshackle Palestinian areas, and the glitzy, modern looking Jewish areas and use that as an argument in their favour.
“Look at how backwards and primitive the Palestinians are, then look at the modern, wealthy, civilised-looking Jewish areas in contrast”.
I’ve heard similar around the net once or twice and sadly, these people seem to have a completely distorted view of cause and effect, so arguing with them wasn’t particularly fruitful, especially since they refuse to believe that Israel is preventing the Palestinians from flourishing economically, so they truly believe that both the slums and the glitz are ‘earned’. Next step of course being “the Palestinians are attacking the Jews because they’re jealous of what they’ve achieved and want to steal some of it”, I can just see it coming.
Yum, where did that come from, I love sour candy! Damn, just my stomach acids.
I witnessed the civil rights movement in late 50s and 60s. Many comfortable whites compared the living standards of Southern blacks to their white middle class neighbors somehow using this to justify Jim Crow. Let the Zios try that argument, indeed welcome that argument. Their efforts to paint the Arabs as savages will only expose their racism as it did here 60 years ago.
I’m sure that valuable experience you made would enrich any such conversation, I failed to have any such effect when I argued with them, then again I don’t have a lot of personal experience to fall back on. (Even if I did I doubt they’d be too impressed, in all honesty)
If you don’t mind, would you tell me more of your civil rights experiences in the 50′s and 60′s? I’d love to hear more.
Mostly a series of many meetings, conferences and demonstrations in the Pacific NW. Far from the real action. I mostly followed that action through the news (analysis mostly in the left wing press). Some of my compatriots were freedom riders (1959-1960) though I was too young to be that actively involved then. One of my friends came back with serious brain damage after being hit by a baseball bat in in Southern bus station. I seriously considered joining the Mississippi summer project in 1964 but I declined because I feared for my life. I was not that courageous.
But I did witness the racism of many whites in those days even in my isolated part of the country. I heard directly many of those racist comments. In my first job, one of my co-workers who carried a 357 magnum would pick up black hitchhikers and when they were in the car put the gun to their head and say he did not want n….s living in his town. At least he bragged that that is what he did. I also experienced a “hate stare” the first time I dated a black (in those days the term was negro) woman. This was in Seattle ca 1962.
In any case that whole attitude was either dead or driven deep underground within 10 years. One major cultural transformation.
I can see anti Arab racism dying as quickly, especially here but also in Israel in the same short time.
Thank you for that, impressions that likely shape for life. I can easily see how someone who lived through that time (as opposed to having heard of it in history class) would more easily be able to spot and oppose similar cultural developments in contemporary times.
“The irony of it is that the Zios will look at these pictures of the dirty, ramshackle Palestinian areas, and the glitzy, modern looking Jewish areas ”
The first time I went to the ****** Holy
Land I flew into the airport in Lid and stayed in a hotel in West Jerusalem. I will never forget the trip to Ramallah and the sight of Ar Ram . The dust, the poverty, the neglect. The contrast to the road from the airport. What political failure looks like.
Bibi was talking on Friday about technology and the belief in technology and the superiority it bestows is at the heart of the Zionist cult.
Rabin, post 1967
link to mfa.gov.il
” We in the army are not in the habit of speaking in high-flown language, but the revelation at that hour at the Temple Mount, a profound truth manifesting itself as if by lightning, overpowered customary constraints. ”
The profound truth of the Palestinians walks all over Israel’s tech superiority. This is about fundamentals. Human rights.
I understand: Philip Weiss left his passport in the hotel when visiting Ramallah?
No I do not understand.
Interesting read. I’m not so sure the “world hating Jews” bit is exactly correct though; I think the world hates Zionists. The conflation can be very dangerous.
We have to be very careful…
Thanks to Israel’s deliberate long-term strategy of conflating “Zionism” with “Judaism,” and “Israel” with “Jew,” Zygmunt Baumann is correct when he says that Israel is achieving Hitler’s goal: for the world to hate Jews.
And you are absolutely correct, Dex, in pointing out how dangerous that conflation is, and that it is Zionists that the world hates. Unfortunately the Jewish American community is mostly Zionist, either supporting Israel’s atrocities actively through fundraising, political pressure, and attempts to silence criticism of Israel, or passively, through their silence.
In my own small town, for example, the local Jewish community was absolutely furious when our food coop considered supporting BDS. They got an Israeli official to fly here from the Israeli consulate in San Francisco to try to set up a private meeting (in violation of the coop bylaws) with the coop board. The levels of self-pity and entitlement expressed by the Jewish anti-BDS people were astonishing, as was their indifference to the suffering of the Palestinians.
A friend of mine even said (and she meant this) that because of the BDS controversy, she felt “too uncomfortable to self-identify as a Jew” in our community. For her, to be a Jew is to be a Zionist. But being a Zionist means supporting ethnic cleansing and other human rights abuses. So it would be best, she thinks, for all of us to agree not to think or talk about it. Complicity through silence.
When I was growing up in Jim Crow Texas, a small minority of whites actively opposed segregation. The majority, however, were segregationists who saw themselves as stalwart Christians who were upholding a righteous social order. It was not until they experienced the shame, over and over and over again, of seeing themselves, through the unwinking eye of the media, as others saw them–disgusting, racist bullies–that their attitudes began to change. This seems to be starting to happen in the Jewish American community.
Very well said Kris:
one of the positive outcomes of 9/11 is that got a great many Americans digging for reasons and finding out disturbing things about israel and our relationship with the zionist regime … which led directly to many more Americans and people the world over seeing through the transparent attempt to equate jew=zionist through israeli propaganda … a great many people have suspicions about israeli involvement in 9/11 and the zionist and often dual US-israeli citizens acting as gate-keepers every step of the way after the fact … and even if it proven that israel and zionists had zero to do with the attacks or enabling them, the vulgar way israel tried to capitalize upon the attacks and use them as an opportunity to expand their regional influence and sell this jew=zionist nonsense has been noticed and will not be forgotten – zionists are the pariahs, not jews
Phil, very dramatic, yet one would expect that you would give it some context. Why is there a Security Barrier? Here is one reason:
Starting in 2000, Fatah militants took over the homes of Christian Arabs living in Beit Jalla to shoot at Gilo residents. Terrorists fired on Gilo more than 400 times from 2000 – 2002.[3] As a result, Israel erected the protective barrier in 2002, helping to decrease the attacks. Israel later launched a defensive campaign – Operation Defensive Shield – to stop terror attacks during the second Palestinian Intifada (uprising), which stopped the attacks altogether.
You also don’t mention what has happened to the huge amount of aid given to the Palestinians that could have been used to build nice neighbourhoods. It ended up in Swiss bank accounts and the leadership of the Palestinians live in very nice homes.
You don’s ask why is it there prior to 2002, there was no barrier, there were no special roads and minimal checkpoints. Palestinians worked in Israel and travelled freely there and back. No, it’s much easier to blame Israel
“… some context. Why is there a Security Barrier?”
(Then lli rants about “Israel later launched a defensive campaign” — hey, you mean then the wall “peace barrier” did not help we agree?)
Anyway, anyhow, anyreader: That wall was not the reason for reduced terror attacks. And, it could have been on the green line.
If you visit there it becomes really obvious that the wall is not for security. For example, the security at the Western Wall complex was the worst I ever saw anywhere. One of our pastors has a metal hip and when he left the United States he was wanded and had a full body scan. I had a bag and I set it on a table when I walked through. It was not inspected in any way. The pastor set the metal detector off but he was just let in. One key feature: our group was white.
Our guide suggested we leave our passports in our hotel room on our free day because they might get stolen. When you are on the “preferred” side of the prison walls security is notably lax. I crossed the green line from my hotel room in West Jerusalem and then walked into the Old City. I also walked into Silwan after exiting the Dung Gate and there was no security anywhere.
The difference between the settlements inside Silwan and Silwan itself is stark. Poverty difference here cannot be explained by either Hamas or Fatah because neither are in charge here. If you look at economic statistics you find that Palestinian Israelis and Messianic Jews both suffer massive discrimination resulting in a 5X poverty rate of the rest of the populace.
At the City of David the security was done by the settlers and the military was there as tourists to be propagandized. The same was true with respect to the tunnels underneath the Western Wall. It was the settlers and not the military or the police that guarded things.
It would be interesting to do a map of the terrorists of the Second Intifada and see which side of the wall they came from. Even Shin Bet admits that the wall doesn’t enhance security.
link to haaretz.com
And let’s put this all in perspective:
The claim this is all about security is BS. It’s about stealing the land and keeping the Palestinians and other non-Jews in economic servitude.
It’s much easier to blame Israel because Israel is the obvious culprit. And as for you, lost one, your why is the apparent reason but you don’t mention anything about what has happened for the last 100 years that tells the real why and the real who.
Note this I just wrote on another thread:
“The latest has just come in on the released US hikers that were held for two years by Iran on trumped up charges. They said:
“We have been held in almost total isolation from the world and everything we love, stripped of our rights and freedom.
“The only explanation for our prolonged detention is the 32 years of mutual hostility between America and Iran. We were convicted of espionage because we are American. It’s that simple”.
Who and what does that remind of? Who has been held unjustly in an open air prison for decades because they are [the other], stripped of their rights and freedom?
And their prolonged 44 year detention continues.”
Just so you get the message:
“It’s the bubble, I said. No it’s more, it’s psychic, they have no idea of that other world, and they have pushed it away, and they have been doing it since ’48.
The West Bank is also a prison, my friend said.
My Israeli friend despairs for the Jews. There are so few of us in the world; and look what we have done here. Israel is achieving what Hitler dreamed of: he wanted the world to hate Jews.”
It’s that simple.
“very dramatic, yet one would expect that you would give it some context. Why is there a Security Barrier? Here is one reason”
Yada-yada-yada! You want context? I’ll give you the ultimate context:
GET THE HELL OUT OF PALESTINE! There wouldn’t have been violent resistance or a need for a damn wall if you Zionists weren’t stealing land, depriving the refugees of their rights and oppressing those who stayed behind, every chance you get.
GET THE HELL OUT!!! GET THE HELL OUT OF PALESTINE!!CAPICHE??? I hope I made myself clear.
We are out of Palestine. We are in Israel, land of milk and honey and bamba and Latma
actually israel exists inside palestine so i don’t think you can really say israel is ever ‘out’ of it.
You’re out of your tree, out of your mind, and running out of time.
You’re in the lalaland of Zionism that sits right on Palestine, in your so-called safe haven that’s a land of robbery and threats, arrogance and injustice.
And you’ve stolen your legitimacy with the help of those who share the immorality of your end justifies the means plus manufactured history, who are your partners in crime.
saying you’re out of palestine is like saying you’re out of the holy land. you’re in it, you’re in the heart of palestine. palestine will never die.
No your not all of Israel is palestine. not one inch was gained legally.
“We are out of Palestine. We are in Israel”
Yes but for how long? As a reader of history, my own, I know for a fact that it will not last. You might as well start taking a closer look at it now that you’re allegedly a “Middle Eastern” of sorts.
“Starting in 2000, Fatah militants took over the homes of Christian Arabs living in Beit Jalla to shoot at Gilo residents. Terrorists fired on Gilo more than 400 times from 2000 – 2002.[3] As a result, Israel erected the protective barrier in 2002, helping to decrease the attacks. Israel later launched a defensive campaign – Operation Defensive Shield – to stop terror attacks during the second Palestinian Intifada (uprising), which stopped the attacks altogether.”
Be so kind as to link to that wikipedia article you got this from, I’d like to examine the sources, the source annotations of which are still in the excerpt you lifted. May well be you have a point, I wouldn’t know that by your ominous copy / paste job though, would I. Trouble with wikipedia is, the source material ranges from serious to outright BS, each source is best separately verified.
“You also don’t mention what has happened to the huge amount of aid given to the Palestinians that could have been used to build nice neighbourhoods. It ended up in Swiss bank accounts and the leadership of the Palestinians live in very nice homes.”
Why don’t you go read up on where the aid went, instead of putting wild guesswork off as a fact? You’re suggesting that a significant amount of it ended up on Swiss bank accounts. I’d like to see you bend over backwards to prove that. As you may or may not know, foreign aid is usually watched closely by the respective givers to make sure it’s used for its intended purpose. Or do you really think especially the USA would send over aid without tripple checking that it isn’t diverted to fund more guns or something. That’s being wilfully ignorant of the process of aid giving. There’s an extensive article on the usage of Palestinian aid even on Wikipedia, a website you use too, by the looks of it. It also attempts to explain why so little of the aid money could be allocated to infrastructure and the likes.
link to en.wikipedia.org
And yes, some of the source material is horrible here, too.
Apart from some presidents in Latin America who are communists to the bone and refuse to live in houses any more luxurious than the majority of their people do, I can’t think of a single example in which politicians *don’t* live in nice houses. That’s not a valid point in anyone’s favour, that’s a feeble attempt at making one.
“No, it’s much easier to blame Israel”
Or is it. In my experience it’s much easier to spout mindless hasbara and get away with it. In my experience Palestinian supporters in the west have usually needed substantial evidence behind what they say to progress even only that inch further, while from what I’m seeing all Zionists usually need to get applauded was an unsupported claim.
Zionist: “No Palestinians were ever forcefully expelled from their homes or the land, they left of their own free will”
West: *clap clap* [asking for evidence would be anti-semitic!]
Activist: “Palestinians have been forced from their homes by Israel, and their homes and properties are still being razed / claimed today”
West: GIVE US IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE!. No, asking Palestinians isn’t evidence, they’re all liars. Those photographs aren’t evidence either, they’re sooo out of context, that’s not acceptable evidence. the UN doesn’t count, they’re anti-semitic. Give us REAL evidence!!11
Be so kind as to link to that wikipedia article you got this from, I’d like to examine the sources, the source annotations of which are still in the excerpt you lifted.
I don’t think lli bothers with the wiki. He took that quote straight from The Israel Project. (“Facts for a Better Future”, even if we have to make them all up) link to theisraelproject.org
The original source that TIP cites is a 2007 opinion piece by Lenny Ben-David, a self-described lobbyist, in the Jerusalem Post, which despite its obvious bias, manages to mention that this occurred during the 2nd intifada: you know the one where the IDF admitted firing over a million bullets in the month of October 2000. LLI kind of forgot to mention that, implying that the Orwellian monikered “Defensive Shield” was Israel’s first attack on the West Bank rather than the culmination of over a year and a half of IDF attacks against the West Bank and Gaza. One million bullets in one month versus 400 in a year and a half. We know what lli finds significant, and it isn’t numbers, its the religion of those being shot at.
Thanks for that. In hindsight I should have just run it through google to see where it came from. I laughed when I realised the ‘facts for a better future’ bit is actually part of their header. Never too early in a website to start with the lying, huh.
That also explains why he didn’t link to his source. If that was my source, I’d likely be too ashamed to, as well.
ARAFAT’S HIDDEN MILLIONS
Arafat’s hidden millions
Excerpts from Al-Watan al-Arabi
July 12, 2002
The Saudi owned Paris journal Al-Watan al-Arabi reported on July 12th that most of Arafat’s close associates are concerned with the future and asking questions about the billions of dollars reportedly taken by Arafat and they want to know what happened to the money?
The experts say there are at least 7 billion dollars involved that were gathered through numerous devices, including donations from Palestinians employed in the Gulf states and other countries, and financial aid provided by Arab countries. These billions are now causing secret controversies within the PNA for several reasons that include the possibility that Arafat is finished as leader of the Palestinians. Also upsetting to these searching for the missing funds is the nonexistence of any financial records that prove the quantity of amount of money received by the Palestinian Authority over decades and how this money was spent. Clearly, the quiet controversy within the PNA is to determine Arafat’s complicity in the missing funds and the need for any new president to seize control over this wealth so he can exercise the power necessary for his position.
Al-Watan al-Arabi questions the stories of Yasir Arafat squirreling away billions in secret accounts and asks if this just a story spread by his adversaries and enemies? The journal asks why do the estimates of funds in “secret accounts” vary from about $7 billion to about $40 billion? They ask where are the financial records of funding received by the PLO since its inception in 1964? They ask where are the financial records of the PLO expenditures? They ask why did Palestinian financial records disappear after each upheaval affecting the PLO? The journals point out that all the PLO’s records vanished when it left Amman during the PLO’s presence in Jordan. And the records in Beirut also vanished when Palestinian fighters left Lebanon as they vanished in every other instance.
The journal also reports that high-level Palestinian figures are speaking out about Arafat’s wealth and the PNA’s need for these funds to assist in forming a state. Additionally, they report that sacked Palestinian security figures leaked details of Arafat’s wealth and said that they have documents to prove their assertion.
Moreover, the journal reports that informed sources revealed that the United States government prepared a secret file about Arafat’s wealth. They say that the file contains information about Arafat’s fiscal assets and secret accounts and documents containing the names of Palestinian and Arab ‘businessmen’; but whose real job is to manage these funds for Arafat. They add that the file has information about property owned by Arafat in many countries, including South America. These properties are described as large plantations that along with cash investments and shares are in the names of Arafat’s representatives.
The journal says that United States sources leaked information about this file to Arab and Palestinian personalities and would use the information later on to ensure that this wealth will be transferred officially to the PNA and then to the proposed state.
Al-Watan al-Arabi closes by asking is Arafat going to disclose the funds owned by the Palestinian Authority registered in his name or in the names of unknown businessmen? Or will the Palestinian people stay poor?
From Economist:
So how financial reform succeeded?:
According to Time:
But it is well known that Arafat did not trust Israelis and bankers, knowing that the tax receipts can be withheld at any time, and accounts frozen. He certainly had money that he hoped that nobody can take away from him and his struggle. After his death, his financial advisor, Rakahd Salim, cooperated with Fatah with tracing further funds.
Yes, we all know in your world there is no occupation. Palestinians are just backwards, uncivilized, blah blah blah….
You sound like some 20 year old Israeli kid, fresh out of compulsory military service. Can you say b-r-a-i-n-w-a-s-h-e-d-!
Probably you know that Gilo is an illegal Israeli settlement in East Jerusalem. The Fatah “militants” were trying to resist Israel’s illegal land grab.
It is not okay to steal someone’s land, and then whine when the owners try to fight back.
There over 200,000 Palestinians on the “Israeli side.” If the danger comes from Palestinians, how can this possibly be for security?
Also, since the wall has been erected, there was an increase in attacks.
And thousands of Palestinians cross through holes, gaps, etc. everyday to work in Israel. Yet, despite this, “terror” attacks are minimal these days.
It is nothing more than an apartheid wall, to expropriate more land from Palestinians based on the false pretence of security.
That’s a clever observation, actually, and I hadn’t actually thought about it in those terms.
“Why is there a Security Barrier? ”
Land grab, apartheid/separation! The idea that it was erected for security purposes is absurd (as explained by Jeff Halper here: link to youtube.com
If it were for security than it’s a monumental failure because it’s not hermetically closed, full of gaps and holes and anyone can get in and out anytime he/she wishes.
LLI, when an armed burglar breaks into a home to rob and is shot (and killed) by the home’s owner, don’t you think it is irrational for that burglar’s family to sue the home owner?
Here is a scenario. An entire family barges into your house claiming to be a previous owner. Some of your family members are forced out, others are murdered in cold blood, and the remaining survivors are locked up in the basement while that murderous family occupies your house and lives there like everything is normal. The basement prisoners escape and kill one of the murderous occupiers.
It would be irrational for the murderous occupiers to try and criminalize them for the murder considering the events that led up to that point. Their charm and their bribes only go so far, but they would lose in court for obvious reasons. When Israel goes to court finally, it won’t be good for Israel.
A more realistic example is a child with a parent who abuses them their entire life until they snap and retaliate. Given the events that led to the point, the snapping is justified.
The filter that you view Israel’s history in selectively ignores the fact that Israel is the aggressor, the occupier, the far more murderous, and the one who started it. Yes, they started it. The first aliyah displaced people’s homes because of an Ottoman absentee land ownership policy (the people living there who thought the land was theirs were living on land that belonged to somebody else which reverted to Ottoman ownership and sold to the Zionists). This of course is the Ottoman’s fault. Zionist bribes probably helped. It didn’t help that the Zionist settlers were of the extremist variety (like the Ultra Orthodox terrorist settlers). They violently clashed with the locals, viewed them as savages, murdered a few, and were not shy about saying they were going to take all the land (to the Euphrates River at the time). They could not believe it when the locals retaliated and murdered a couple of their own deservingly so. How dare the savages attack us?!
Thus it began and spiraled out of control. I wouldn’t expect sociopaths to tell the truth though. Netanyahu is an expert pathological liar, a real psychopath.
charon, i do not think every early zionist was like the ultra orthodox extremists settlers.
Many of them were, annie. Hostage, I think, gave the links. One involved 1908. Another was a map circa 1919 that the Zionists planned as the Jewish State which encompassed all of present day I/P and encroached on Jordan. The Brits said no.
yes i agree many of them were. i was just thinking of Ahad HaAm. he wasn’t what i would consider a fanatical extremist or even religious per se.
mrw, did you edit? i was responding primarily to:
It didn’t help that the Zionist settlers were of the extremist variety (like the Ultra Orthodox terrorist settlers).
perhaps i am wrong but i didn’t have the impression they were all like the terrorists settlers.
“charon, i do not think every early zionist was like the ultra orthodox extremists settlers.”
I came across many accounts about those early Zionist “pioneers”. They were mainly Eastern European. They were invariably described as unprincipled, uncouth, aggressive and ruthless thieves. Not religious maybe but that’s about it.
They had great disdain for the locals and treated them badly.
You have a very myopic view of context.
try again.
atime forpeace: welcome. Your edit test was a success.
Now try adding content please.
WATCH YOUR STEP (AND YOUR BACK), PHIL.
TERRORISTS ARE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD!
SEE: French Jewish fighters move in to defend Israeli settlements in West Bank — War in Context, 9/25/11
SOURCE – link to warincontext.org
it would be interesting to get the fbi to make note of how israel is supporting a terrorist group… i thought the usa wasn’t going to support countries that supported terrorist groups, or does that not apply to israel?
It does not.
i wonder if the folks at israel customs are aware of the work phil is doing on this website and if they might be a tad unimpressed to the point of causing some hardship over his movement?
I would bet good money, and I really don’t have any to bet, that they would do him like they did Chomsky and Finkelstein and forbid him from entering Israel.
that was what i was thinking memphis..
uh oh lets not give Hophmi etc any ideas.
Chomsky, Finkelstein not the only ones banned. What a democracy
link to veteransforpeace.org
Journalists who cover the flotilla’s attempt to reach the Gaza strip will be denied entry to the country for 10 year, The National reported. The government press office released a statement that called the pro-Palestinian activists’ actions “a dangerous provocation” and an “international violation of Israeli law.”
You are brave.
I hope you and the people you travel with will be safe and not treated like Hedy Epstein was when she left israel.
“when you are driving an hour out of your way past the hilltop settlements and the divided roads, and the barbed wire festooned with tattered plastic bags and the wall and the guard towers, you think of apartheid, and of ancient ghettoes in Europe. Though I am not sure who is more ghettoized….”
It is so sad that the people who said ‘never again’ are painting themselves into a corner and building walls around their own ghetto just to ‘repeat it again’.
With walls and fences around their jewish reservation and nukes to protect it they will never have to apologize or try to be friends with anyone.
What will happen when the effect of BDS becomes more effective? A nuclear ghetto uprising?
“Israel is achieving what Hitler dreamed of: he wanted the world to hate Jews.” – Zygmunt Baumann.
I think it is even more scary that Israel and it’s supporters are setting the two religions Christianity and Islam up against each other and teaching them to hate each other .
Will The “Clash of Civilizations” between nazis and jews be repeated? Only this time on a much larger scale with Christians against Muslims?
Hedy. Love that woman. Strong, clear, so well spoken. Was able to get lots of journalist to interview her at the Move over Aipac protest across from the convention. Also some of the students from around the country who had their trips paid for by Aipac at the conference were able to talk with Hedy. Zing a ding ding
link to informationclearinghouse.info
Hedy Epstein: I have never felt such anger after what happened to me and the friend travelling with me at the Ben Gurion airport in January 2004.
While on the plane, still full of rage, I wrote on every page in the magazines provided by the airline “I am a Holocaust survivor and I will ‘never again’ return to Israel.” I sometimes pressed so hard on the paper with my pen, that I tore the page. It was one small way to vent some of my anger.
After I returned home, still very angry, traumatized, I decided to get some counselling, which helped me to work through my anger and allowed me to plan my next trip back to the West Bank just a few months later, in the summer of 2004. I have been back every year since then, a total of five times since 2003. I have gone back because it is the right thing for me to do; to witness and to let the Palestinians know there are some people who care enough to come back and stand with them in their struggle against Israel’s occupation. Palestinians have asked me upon my return home, to tell the American people what I have seen and experienced, because the American people don’t know what is happening, because the media does not inform them. I made a commitment to do so and have taken every opportunity to honour this commitment.
Silvia Cattori: What was your interpretation of the fact that the Israeli officers treated you in such a brutal way?
Hedy Epstein: They tried to intimidate me, to silence me, hoping I would never come back. Though momentarily they may have succeeded, ultimately they did not. To quote General McArthur, an American army general, who said “I shall return”, I have returned four times since the January 2004, event at the Tel Aviv airport, on my way back from Israeli occupied territory, and will continue to return. They will not be able to stop me. And, so, I plan to aboard ship to Gaza in a few months.
Silvia Cattori: Was it not too traumatic for a sensitive person like you to go back to the West Bank and see the Isreali soldiers humiliating, threatening, killing, and destroying Palestinians lives and properties?
Hedy Epstein: As an American I am a privileged person. I am very much aware of this and feel uncomfortable wearing this cloak, especially when I am in Palestine, conscious of the fact that I can come and go any time I want to, a privilege denied the Palestinians, who have great difficulty in moving from one place to another, restricted by road blocks, check points, the imprisoning 25 foot high wall, by young Israeli soldiers who can decide who can pass and who cannot, who can go to school, to the hospital, to work, to visit family and friends.
I have seen the long lines of Palestinians at the Bethlehem checkpoint. I spoke to a 41 year old man, who told me he works three days a week; in order to get to work on time, he gets up at 2:30 A.M. and arrives at the checkpoint at 3:15 A.M. to wait in line, a long line, with others, for the checkpoint to open around 5:30 A.M. He has to come this early because many people line up. Sometimes the Israeli soldiers allow no one to go through. He would like to work full time, but there are no jobs in Bethlehem.
During each of my five visits I have spent some time in Jerusalem. I have been painfully aware how increasingly its current size and boundaries share very little with the city’s historic parameters, Israeli only settlements, such as Har Homa and Gilo are referred to as Jerusalem neighbourhoods. East Jerusalem is dotted with Israeli flags flying from homes from which Palestinians were “removed,” thus judaizing the area more and more.
During my last visit, in August 2007, I only had time for a brief visit with my dear Palestinian friend, and her husband in Ramallah. During prior visits, I and some of my American travel companions were their houseguests for several days, basking in their hospitality, typical Palestinian hospitality, which is unlike any other I have ever experienced anywhere. The wife, ever cheerful in the past, seemed downcast, though she did not complain, simply stating “Life is more difficult since my husband is no longer working.” In a conversation later, alone with her husband, he stated that he left his job in order to go to school and study. There is truth in both statements, but the husband’s comments reflect an effort to salvage and maintain some of his dignity.
ot – Foreign fighters support Israel’s settlements
link to english.aljazeera.net
i was unaware of this… i guess the zionists are willing to pay for outside help to maintain their apartheid state…
yep, we broke that story on mondoweiss james.
i see dickerson up above is mentioning it too… i missed the first memo when it flew by my desk, lol…
james, here sept 5th. looks like you made an appearance in the thread.
LOL, how did that “breaking news” turn out? was there a mass slaughter by ‘foreign fighters’ in the WB like you all predicted on here?
They’ve been there for, what, a week? A day? Seriously, DBG, it’s pretty sickening for you to run interference for people who have come to the occupied territories with the intent of slaughtering Arabs.
phil, i’m really excited about you reporting from over there. the last time you went you published some of your best writing ever.
Phil is a gifted writer–that Harvard education has manifested itself here.
A group photo of armed French far right terrorist group JDL in the West Bank
link to angryarabscommentsection.blogspot.com
“I didn’t even notice the soldier’s wave, as we slid through the checkpoint. He did this with his hand, my friend mimed, because we looked Israeli.”
“…we looked Israeli.” That is to say Ashkenazi?
I don’t buy this story. Israel has enough experienced military vets, fluent in Hebrew, who needs outsiders? I’m no fan of the JDL, but like that there are Jews in the diaspora ready to fight back. I know that really really pisses off those who like to see the meek Jew who crosses the street to avoid being beaten up.
I don’t recall any of you making a fuss when ISM hosted two Brits who killed 3 and wounded 50 in Mikes place in Tel Aviv. None of you recall the Palestinians using Germans to hijack the Air France to Entebbe, and the Japanese to fire randomly into the arrivals all at Ben Gurion Airport. As unpleasant as these JDL may be, they haven’t done anything yet.
“Israel has enough experienced military vets, fluent in Hebrew, who needs outsiders?”
Answer: “We know the IDF doesn’t need us, but we”re going to show our solidarity. We’re going over to make sure all areas are covered, and to defend the settlements,” he said.
“I’m no fan of the JDL”
Good to know you’re only a low grade hasbarist not an armed thug.
Anyway here’s the full story:
link to english.aljazeera.net
“The JDL encourages its members to undertake training in Krav Maga [Hebrew: "hand to hand combat"], a form of martial art used by the Israeli forces for close combat in urban warfare.
“We give this training to our members, so they are capable of defending themselves,” Cohen explained.
Military training is also encouraged for its members. “I tell the members that they should do military service, and we encourage this,” said Cohen, adding that some JDL members have been enrolled in the French army.
But AGEN says each of its demonstrations have been targeted by the JDL. “They hear about pro-Palestinian demonstrations, such as the Gaza flotilla solidarity events we had this summer, and they show up and start abusing people. It’s not self-defence when they actively search for the demonstration,” he said. “They hide in the streets when demonstrations happen, and attack the tail-end of the protests.”
“We’ve asked for the dissolution of the JDL through a petition signed by 30 different associations, as they are an armed militia, which is forbidden in France,” he said, but the petition has yet to gain traction with French authorities.
Ironically, prominent Jewish lobbies in France dissociate with the JDL, claiming they are groups of violent youth who do not represent the Jewish community.”
lli quote ” As unpleasant as these JDL may be, they haven’t done anything yet.” why don’t you head over to the west bank, say you are an arab and see what happens? lol………
from dickersons post above
“The FBI has described the JDL as a “right-wing terrorist group” .
One of its most infamous charter members was Baruch Goldstein who attack unarmed Palestinian Muslim worshipers at a mosque in Hebron in 1994, killing 29 and wounding 125 others. On its website, the JDL says “We do not consider his assault to qualify under the label of terrorism,” in reference to Goldstein’s Hebron attack — they also describe him as “a brilliant surgeon, a mild-mannered Yeshiva-educated man.”
I don’t know why you like to bring irrelevant ‘facts’ into these discussions. My guess is you are trying to play on people’s emotions. That is not going to work here. But since you brought those up……
The Israeli Security Agency Shin Bet were behind the hijacking of Air France 139. This information was revealed in 2007 via de-classified British intelligence documents. De-classified British intelligence documents freely available on the web also implicate PFLP and Mossad as being two sides of the same coin. Actually, it’s a three-sided coin because CIA fits in there somewhere too. This was the reason why PFLP’s clear involvement in the Lockerbie bombing was suppressed in favor of the bogus “Libyan” version which ironically is being re-visited due to documents ‘discovered’ in the aftermath of last month’s events.
I suggest reading up on the Lockerbie case for more info. The CIA and Mossad used PFLP as a front for a drug-smuggling operation. A new CIA agent assigned to the area was on that plane, possibly a rat. The drugs were probably switched off with a bomb to take care of the rat. That’s likely what happened.
PFLP aka Mossad/Shin Bet was behind the Lod massacre too
The Mike’s Place bombing was nothing compared to the King David Hotel bombing which killed 91 people and wounded 46 compliments of Zionist terrorists, one who laughably won a Nobel Peace Prize later in life. They also bombed a market in Haifa killing 43. Killed 24 by bombing a market in Jaffa. Massacred over 100 civilian villagers in the Deir Yassin massacre. Bombed a bunch of trains. Murdered a UN envoy. Plotted to kill Churchill. These examples merely scratch the surface of the numerous Zionist terrorist attacks, terrorists who are viewed in Israel as liberators and heroes.
And who could forget Ariel Sharon ordering the murder of 3,500 Palestinians in a refugee camp in Lebanon.
So you see longliveisrael, for every irrelevant example you add to the discussion as a way to connect Palestinians with terrorism (and therefore demonize them) I can list many more worse terrorist attacks committed by Israelis. Several of the Palestinian attacks have come to show a clear Zionist holding hand which is not surprising considering the methods employed were no different than the Zionist terrorist groups.
“The Israeli Security Agency Shin Bet were behind the hijacking of Air France 139. . . . “Conspiracy theory . . . Conspiracy theory…”
LOL.
Did you find those nukes in Iraq yet, hophmi? Or were you busy looking for evidence that Saddam Hussein was running al-Qaeda?
“but like that there are Jews in the diaspora ready to fight back. I know that really really pisses off those who like to see the meek Jew who crosses the street to avoid being beaten up.”
That’s your complex ….meek Jews?
Well, you have made great strides…from meek to cowardly bullies.
One of the first pictures I ever saw about what was happening in Palestine was this one:…an unarmed man shot dead by the IDF while trying to shield his son.
link to top10latest.com
So now the world sees you as bullies and cowards. Hardly an improvement.
American: “So now the world sees you as bullies and cowards. Hardly an improvement.”
Too true and what really pisses of these cowardly Zionist bullies are the Palestinians who just don’t go meekly. And it doesn’t take a psychologist to understand why.
“I don’t recall any of you making a fuss when ISM hosted two Brits who killed 3 and wounded 50 in Mikes place in Tel Aviv.”
There are two reasons you don’t recall any of “you” making a fuss.
First, Mondoweiss didn’t even exist at the time (it was founded in 2006), so I’m not sure how you think you can identify what the commentators on Mondoweiss were saying or doing in 2003.
Second, and much more importantly, you don’t recall people making a fuss because it never happened. It was a smear put forward by the Israeli government, based on the fact that the terrorists in question, prior to doing the bombing, turned up for 15 minutes at a social event in the apartment of an ISM activist. See link to electronicintifada.net
and link to electronicintifada.net
. Needless to say, ISM, which is a wholly non-violent movement, knew nothing about what these terrorists were planning, and neither encouraged nor supported them to the slightest degree.
That you can claim that a brief social contact of that sort is in any way parallel to the JDL working directly with the violent settlers suggests only how desperate you are to find anything, however tenuous, to discredit your non-violent opponents.
CHECK OUT THIS ZINGER: American Tragedy, by Gilad Atzmon, Dissident Voice, 9/23/11
ENTIRE COMMENTARY – link to dissidentvoice.org
“Thanks to Israel’s deliberate long-term strategy of conflating “Zionism” with “Judaism,” and “Israel” with “Jew,” Zygmunt Baumann is correct when he says that Israel is achieving Hitler’s goal: for the world to hate Jews”
Not so long ago, I was banned from posting here for advancing the same premise.
To think that the blame for Israel’s actions and policies will not be placed squarely on the shoulders of the Jews is an asinine form of denial. Particularly with Israel insisting that when it fries Palestinian women and children in white phosphorous it does so as a “Jewish State”.
So there are no protests, everything is quiet and there is a good organic restaurant in Ramallah. Thanks for breaking this huge story.
Sorry that it didn’t involve a ‘terrorist’ incident so you could get your jollies on. By the way, it’s not normal to have a military presence literally around the corner with tanks being a normal part of the scenery and soldiers flaunting their firearms. Not even in Detroit, Gary, Camden, St. Louis, etc.
great article. Iwas asking myself the same question after the UN Netanyahu speech.
Netanyahu proved Israel doesn’t want peace
Netanyahu shows to the world that Israel wants neither an agreement nor a Palestinian state, and for that matter not peace, either.
By Gideon Levy
link to haaretz.com
Levy is one of the few journalists who get it and speak the truth. He used to be Zionist but had an eye-opening moment after witnessing constant inhumane treatment of Palestinians, that it was the policy and not the exception.
He’s right and he’s right about Abbas’ speech. Abbas did not lie, Netanyahu lied, but Abbas told the truth. The truth that Zionists refuse to acknowledge in favor of a fantasy. Levy does say how he left out Jews when saying it was the land of Christians and Muslims. Perhaps it was translated differently, but I thought he said the Holy Land home to Christ and of Muhammad’s journey. The closest Hebrew equivalent would be Moses I guess. Saying the land of Moses sounds odd. It would’ve been less controversial if he said birthplace of the Abrahamic religions. If he said “Jews” the Zionists would be all over this as him acknowledging the “Jewish State” and using it against him.
And of course Moses never reached the promised land because of his sin at Meribath Kadesh.
нуз
LLI doesn’t seem all the knowledgable for a Hasbarist. But then again maybe that is the point. I find it humorous how they insist on bringing irrelevant ‘facts’ into the discussion.
Ex – “World in favor of Palestinian Statehood”
LLI response – “Is the world crazy? These are suicide bombers who fire rockets at children on school buses! They killed the Fogels! They don’t want peace!”
Which selectively leaves out all the Zionist terrorist incidents which far outnumber the Palestinian ones, especially in death toll (and several of the attacks attributed to Palestinians were ‘false flags’ led by state-sponsored terrorist groups in disguise). It also seems to leave out the events of the past 63 years. “Why do they want to kill us!? We want peace” Yeah whatever, the fact that you’ve been killing them 10x more than they’ve been killing you seems to indicate otherwise.
“A traditional meal in an organic restaurant” – sounds like a contradiction to me…
Anyway: welcome, Phil.
“sounds like a contradiction to me…”
Why? One can prepare a traditional meal using organically grown products. Not rocket science to figure that one out!
Not if your family has been traditionally eating organically whenever possible for two generations, like we do.
That being said, I’m interested in what kind of restaurant it was where they ate. Sounds interesting.
For somebody from North America/Israel, maybe, jon. How much of your life is spent in the Middle East and you still don’t have a clue what goes on outside your barbed-wire-lined backyard?
totally off topic, but this topic is getting some traffic.
I’m taking a human rights class on political repression. For my essay I’m going to write on how Israel reacts to the peaceful protests by Palestinians.
I remember Phil doing a couple stories about two gentleman imprisoned for being involved in protests. One was a gentleman who was involved in human rights and received an award in Norway. The other I cannot recall any details.
There was also a video posted here of a distraught man pleading with Israeli soldiers (very moving man) during a protest. I also read on here that he was arrested shortly after that video was posted on here.
Could someone help me out with the links on here or the names of those guys.
Thank You
The man who received an award in Norway was Mohammed Othman. See here:
link to mondoweiss.net
and here
link to mondoweiss.net
and here
link to mondoweiss.net
the second and third stories also mention Jamal Juma. Perhaps he was who you were thinking of? Or were you thinking of Abdqllah Abu Rahmah of Bilin or Baseem and Naji Tamimi of Nabi Saleh?
link to mondoweiss.net
Hope some of that helps. No luck on the video yet, but I’ll post again if I find anything.
Bad typo: I meant to write Abdallah Abu Ramah.
Abu Rahmah, that is.
Time to go to bed.
For the second person I think he was referring to Abdallah Abu Rahmah who in that famous video was confronting the soldiers during a peaceful protest in his village whose lands were slated to be taken over to build the apartheid wall.
Thank You very much Tree et al, much appreciated!!
Memphis, a must include is the amazing statement of Bassem Tamimi to the Ofer military court, just google it.
Thanks, John
The other night on MSNBC’s Dylan Ratigan when his team popped up a split screen of Abbas’s speech at the UN the other screen showed Palestinians throwing some things. Of course did not choose to show peaceful Palestinian protest
And Memphis friends of mine who have been going over for over 20 years have stated that Israel has put many Palestinian Gandhis (non violent protest organizers) in prison for decades. Will ask names
awesome, thank you!!
Anyone interested in the use of architecture as a tool of the occupation is invited to buy this book
A Civilian Occupation: The Politics of Israeli Architecture
link to amazon.com
It’s fascinating
Powerful. Thanks, Phil.
Interesting views.
Phil “We had to go around the Israeli settlements” Is there a reason you avoid saying ILLEGAL?
Were all the roads you were on for Israeli’s/visitors only? Are Palestinians (citizens of Israel)that live in Israel allowed to use the Israeli settler highways?
I have been thinking about the term that you use a great deal “liberal Zionist” How can a person be both? From what I have read about the birth of Zionism it was always about getting all of the land that Zionist have determined belongs to them back.
Write your Reps folks demand that the US cut off aid to Israel. At the very least and demand that the US needs to demand that Israel identify how much US aid they use to build or expand illegal settlements, illegal housing or illegal sections of the wall built on internationally recognized Palestinian land.
Sunday news morning news was loaded up with some honest coverage of the I/P conflict, Abbas bid at the UN. Refreshing.
When you go to the GPS site war criminal Paul Wolfowitz on the front page. Have to go looking for Fareed Zakaria’s interview with Turkey’s Prime Minister Erdogan
link to youtube.com
Fareed’s interview with Erdogan not on the front page of GPS (interesting, odd). You have to go searching
link to globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com
On Christiane Amanpour’s “This Week” she interviewed
Not on the front page. Nothing about this interview on the front page
link to abcnews.go.com
link to abcnews.go.com
Interview with Hawan Ashawi. She lays it out. Gives this new path a few years then the two state solution is over.
link to abcnews.go.com
link to abcnews.go.com
Wow even NPR interviewed Prime Minister Erdogan this morning. The interviewer David Greene tries to spin the Prime Ministers demands for accountability “inflammatory” Asked him if thought he might “regret” his comments? Have you ever heard any ANY US journalist ask Bibi these questions?
link to npr.org
Ok right after the NPR interview with Erdogan they go right to an Iran story. Inferring once again that Iran is developing nuclear weapons. This has been NPR’s strategy for several years now. Guy Raz and Scott Simons programs are especially obvious. If they get anywhere close to reporting honestly about the I/P conflict. They immediately do a story promoting someone (usually Jewish) who has written a book about the Holocaust or a story about the Holocaust…or focus on Iran
“Have you ever heard any ANY US journalist ask Bibi these questions?
Uh, the entire Bibi interview with David Gregory was pretty hostile. Why don’t you stop complaining?
Considering as a neocon, your standard of “pretty hostile” is “asking questions that weren’t on the memo we sent you before the interview,” hophmi?
Documenting. As well as always contacting these outlets and getting others to do the same.
So happy I get under your skin. Not hard but will wear it as a badge of honor. But far more importantly I have found over and over again when you bring this issue up at their sites, emails, twitters, collective communication they start to bend. Know it works
Thanks
link to msnbc.msn.com
Great interview by Gregory. Bibi looked like a stone statue when Gregory “Turkey has turned against you” More isolated.
Gregory “how can you occupy Palestinian territory at this point”
Bibi keeps repeating the deep history hooey. As if Palestinians do not have a deep history. Watch that mans eyes, dart, shift, blink, dart shift shift, blink blink. Then he claims that his speech was “conciliatory”
Really appreciated that David Gregory kept pounding “is the two state solution over” “no longer viable”
Bill Clinton ” he’s (Netanyahu) not going to give up the West Bank”
Ouch
link to haaretz.com
Published 09:50 23.09.11
Latest update 09:50 23.09.11
Bill Clinton: Netanyahu isn’t interested in Mideast peace deal
Former U.S. President says a cynical perspective of Prime Minister’s calls for negotiations ‘means that he’s just not going to give up the West Bank’.
By Haaretz Tags: Middle East peace Palestinian state West Bank Benjamin Netanyahu Mahmoud Abbas Barack Obama UN
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is responsible for the inability to reach a peace deal that would end the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians, former U.S. President Bill Clinton said on Thursday.
Speaking on the sidelines of the Clinton Global Initiative conference in New York, the former U.S. president was quoted by Foreign Policy magazine as claiming that Netanyahu lost interest in the peace process as soon as two basic Israelis demands seemed to come into reach: a viable Palestinian leadership and the possibility of normalizing ties with the Arab world.
Bill Clinton – Reuters – 22.9.2011
Former U.S. President Bill Clinton speaking during the 2011 Clinton Global Citizen Award ceremony at the Clinton Global Initiative in New York September 22, 2011.
Photo by: Reuters
“The Israelis always wanted two things that once it turned out they had, it didn’t seem so appealing to Mr. Netanyahu,” Clinton said, adding that Israel wanted “to believe they had a partner for peace in a Palestinian government, and there’s no question — and the Netanyahu government has said — that this is the finest Palestinian government they’ve ever had in the West Bank.”
Furthermore, the former U.S. president is quoted by Foreign Policy as saying that Israel was also on the verge of being recognized by Arab nations adding that the “king of Saudi Arabia started lining up all the Arab countries to say to the Israelis, ‘if you work it out with the Palestinians … we will give you immediately not only recognition but a political, economic, and security partnership.”
“This is huge…. It’s a heck of a deal,” Clinton said, adding: “That’s what happened. Every American needs to know this. That’s how we got to where we are.”
“The real cynics believe that the Netanyahu’s government’s continued call for negotiations over borders and such means that he’s just not going to give up the West Bank,” he added.
Clinton also said he felt the Palestinians would accept the deal rejected by former PA President Yasser Arafat in 2000 negotiations with then Prime Minister Ehud Barak, saying that Palestinian leaders “have explicitly said on more than one occasion that if [Netanyahu] put up the deal that was offered to them before — my deal — that they would take it.”
think this might be the toughest interview I have heard. Movement based on facts. Oh yeah
Listening to BBC. George Mitchell coming up on I/P non negotiations, Palestinian bid. Should be interesting
Have you a link for that, Kathleen ?
the Zios shafted Mitchell. I suppose thanks for small mercies and all- they could have killed him like they did Bernadotte.
not up
He started with “of course it’s been 63 years”
“not in the near future” Then the interviewer challenges him about whether it will happen during his lifetime. This question seemed to shake Mitchell up a bit.
Really did not say much. I kept sending the BBC emails (which I have had read on air, encourage others to do the same) asking the interviewer to ask George Mitchell why he quit, threw up his hands. Was it interference and undermining by Dennis Ross?
Phil
Are you going to eat knafiyeh while you are in the West Bank?
Are you planning to smoke shisha ?
you should drink ahwa mazboota
Have you heard any Fairuz yet?
Otherwise what’s the point?
Check this out
Top settler intellectual disses Weiss
link to myrightword.blogspot.com
Weiss – Wipe Yourself
Anti-Zionist and anti-Israel Philip Weiss of Mondeweiss illustrates the mindset of his ilk in this description of how he sneaks back into Israel from Ramallah at the Hizma crossing:
A soldier stood strangely bent over a semiautomatic weapon at the ready, the barrel gleaming in the streetlights. “Pure racial profiling,” said my Israeli friend. And of course a checkpoint on our side too, to keep the Palestinians on the West Bank. I didn’t even notice the soldier’s wave, as we slid through. He did this with his hand, my friend mimed. “Because we look Israeli.” Behind us a car with a woman wearing a hijab got pulled over for questioning.
This is not racial profiling.
It’s is ratiomnal logic.
If you are at a security crosspoint looking for Arab terrorists do you look for Arabs or Jews? Do you stop and strip search everyone?
And, by-the-by, he throws this in:
The new electric tram to bring settlers into the city from the Jerusalem settlements.
But his geography is weak:
And let’s be clear. I say Jerusalem, but the municipal border is miles east of those 1967 lines that President Obama mentioned back in May, and then had to eat. We passed through several gleaming Jewish neighborhoods built to encircle the city– Givat Benjamin. French Hill. Pisgat Zeev.
a) “miles”? Not really.
b) Givat Benjamin? Where is that?
And then he returns to his hate and self-hate speech:
…when you are driving an hour out of your way past the hilltop settlements and the divided roads, and the barbed wire festooned with tattered plastic bags and the wall and the guard towers, you think of apartheid, and of ancient ghettoes in Europe…the architecture of East Jerusalem, of racial separation and colonization and cultural anxiety and persecution. Some day the American press will discover it.
Wheter its spittle or worse, Philip Weiss, wipe yourself.
Labels: Jewish self-hatred
That guy’s nutso. He attacked me on his blog a while ago. Not a great honor.
The guy is a far right settler who used to post comments over here a year ago or so under the moniker ‘ymedad’ or such. A vile, despicable creature as all those whom he represents.( He does represent some group of far right colonists). One of his most brilliantly stated arguments was that Arabs have no rights to Jerusalem because the name is not mentioned in the Qur’an. A genius!