Deal in works to save Obama casting a veto, and continue ‘peace process’ –Guardian

on 196 Comments

Chris McGreal, in New York:

International efforts to forestall a showdown in the UN security council over the declaration of a Palestinian state are solidifying around a plan for the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas, to submit a request for recognition but for a vote on the issue to be put on hold while a new round of peace talks is launched.

The deal is being pushed by the Middle East “Quartet” of the UN, EU, US and Russia, which is attempting to persuade Abbas to back away from a diplomatic confrontation with Washington, which says it will veto the Palestinian bid.

The US president Barack Obama is expected to meet the Palestinian leader at the UN on Wednesday as Abbas comes under intense pressure from the US and Europe to compromise.

Diplomats said the proposed compromise would see Abbas submit his letter to the security council, which would then defer action.

196 Responses

  1. Taxi
    September 21, 2011, 8:54 am

    It’s freaky how freaked the freaking zionists are freaking!

    Never seen anything like it in my life!

    You woulda thunk the Palestinians have got a nuke tucked in their back pocket – the way everyone’s running fretful uneven circles around Abbas (like headless chickens, which they are).

    • seafoid
      September 21, 2011, 12:12 pm

      Obama is a joke

      link to

      “Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Wednesday that direct negotiation was the only way to achieve a stable Middle East peace and the Palestinian effort to secure UN recognition of statehood “will not succeed.”
      Netanyahu thanked Obama for endorsing direct talks with Palestinians and speaking out against any UN bid to declare a Palestinian state.

      Netanyahu made the remarks at a meeting with President Barack Obama, who reiterated the unwavering U.S. commitment to Israel and said efforts to impose peace on Israel and the Palestinians would not work.

      Earlier Wednesday, Obama addressed the UN General Assembly and urged Israel and the Palestinians to renew negotiations, stressing that the Palestinians’ cannot achieve statehood through UN resolutions”

      • Taxi
        September 21, 2011, 12:45 pm

        I ain’t listening to ANYTHING the dastardly haaretz or any other zionist is saying – till Abbas PERSONALLY makes a statement in front of Aljazeera cameras, I ain’t believing no crap coming outta the zio PR machine.

        p.s. I loved how Obama went from protecting israel/chastizing Palestinians straight to a hippy-dippy ‘let’s all hold hands now and sing kumbaya’. What a despicable coward! Everyone can see the zios are squeezing his sack and he’s blaming his hurt all on the Palestinians!

        Disgusting! To think his mum was a civil rights activists!

      • seafoid
        September 21, 2011, 1:32 pm

        I am so sick of the lies.

      • Graber
        September 21, 2011, 1:34 pm

        Just want it to be noted that Larry Derfner is now writing for +972 Magazine.

        Some of his work:
        link to
        link to

        And his profile description from the website:
        I was a columnist and feature writer for The Jerusalem Post, as well as the correspondent in Israel for the U.S. News and World Report, for many years. I wrote feature articles for the Sunday Times of London during the second intifada, and have been writing for American Jewish publications since 1990. Politically, I would describe myself as an ultra-liberal Zionist; as journalist Bradley Burston put it, I’m “probably as far left as a centrist can be.” I was born in New York, grew up in Los Angeles and moved to Israel in 1985.

      • Antidote
        September 21, 2011, 2:51 pm

        “ultra-liberal Zionist”:

        “I was born in New York, grew up in Los Angeles and moved to Israel in 1985.”

        ultra-liberal Nazi:

        I was born in Frankfurt, grew up in Munich and moved to Poland in 1940.

      • DICKERSON3870
        September 21, 2011, 3:29 pm

        RE: “Larry Derfner is now writing for +972 Magazine.” ~ Graber
        MY REPLY: Thank’s for the ‘heads up’. That is very good news!

      • Shmuel
        September 21, 2011, 5:56 pm


        You know German history, and I presume you know at least some Israeli history. Why the hyperbole? Is the reality not bad enough? Are there no other analogies?

      • thetumta
        September 21, 2011, 8:35 pm

        I’m afraid no one here really knows German history of the time you’re referring to as we have special historical standards to preserve the NKDV/Hollywood/Churchill/FDR/Zionist mythology. Digging deeper can get you deported to Germany where you’re book is burned and you’re incarcerated. 50 to 100 million perished in the last misunderstanding. What do you think an all out effort would produce now? Slowly and inexorably we’re sliding down the slippery slope, yet again, but with much more serious capabilities. Try not to be too surprised. Hej!

      • Antidote
        September 23, 2011, 5:48 pm


        “Why the hyperbole? Is the reality not bad enough? Are there no other analogies?”

        The short answer is: no. I have to take a raincheck on the long answer (no time right now)


        “I’m afraid no one here really knows German history of the time you’re referring to as we have special historical standards to preserve the NKDV/Hollywood/Churchill/FDR/Zionist mythology.”

        I fully agree. And my long answer would have to address and correct the rubbish one reads on MW and just about everywhere else about German history. But I disagree that all books get burned in Germany or elsewhere. Not at all. It’s just that most people haven’t read them. The truth is out there but the lies persist. It’s just like the I/P conflict. “The Arabs attacked”, “The Germans attacked”, and so on. Very similar. As long as the Nazis are marketed as the ultimate evil, and the Holocaust as the ultimate crime (i.e. the Jews as the prime victims of WW II and history), neither the I/P conflict nor a great many others will be solved.

      • Donald
        September 23, 2011, 6:08 pm

        “Why the hyperbole? ”

        I agree with you–there’s no need to invoke Nazi analogies. Sometimes people compare the current situation with what happened in the 30’s, before the Holocaust, but then why bring Nazis into it, since so many countries (including the US) have shown similar levels of racism and bigotry?

        But it’s a lost cause. The pro-Zionist types often bring Hitler into it–we see the Mufti trotted out on regular occasions here and in browsing other websites he’s getting a workout all over the web. So I suppose one could see all the Nazi comparisons as cancelling out.

        Apartheid South Africa seems like a pretty accurate comparison. Also Jim Crow. And some of our treatment of the Native Americans, though in percentage terms I think the American treatment of the Native Americans was more murderous than what Israel has done. But it’s a similar mindset.

  2. Whizdom
    September 21, 2011, 9:01 am

    This might work. But Abbas needs two things, final status negotiations, with a time limit, and a settlement freeze, perhaps more (dismantling outposts?). Not sure the Israeli PM can do the latter without imploding his coalition.

    • lysias
      September 21, 2011, 10:20 am

      What about forming a new coalition that includes the Palestinian parties?

      • Whizdom
        September 21, 2011, 11:39 am

        A “unity” government that includes all, including the Arab parties might be the best plan during the transition. Not likely.

  3. Paul Norheim
    September 21, 2011, 9:03 am

    Further down in the Guardian article:

    “However, diplomats warned that a number of issues remain unresolved, including a Palestinian demand that the statement include a requirement that Israel halt construction of Jewish settlements in the occupied territories.

    Israel’s position is unclear.”

    How can McGreal state that Israel’s position is unclear? Netanyahu will not accept a settlement freeze; and Abbas will not agree to take up negotiations again without a settlement freeze.

    So where does that leave us?

    • James
      September 21, 2011, 12:46 pm

      that leaves us right where israel would like to be! a continuation of building settlements with no end in sight until whatever palestine was has been completely populated with zionist settlers…

      any stall tactic for supposed diplomatic reasons here is just that – another attempt to derail a resolution acknowledging palestine is a country with rights alongside the country created in 1948 – israel…

      it seems to me that unfortunately abbas doesn’t represent the people of palestine, so much as the countries israel and the usa… maybe he realized this along the way and wanted to leave a mark near the very end of his leadership above and beyond the mandate that the usa and israel gave him… it sure looks like this to me.. i would like to have someone else correct me on this, as i remain somewhat un-educated on his authority and how he has gotten it..

      didn’t the people of palestine vote for hamas?

      • AhVee
        September 21, 2011, 4:36 pm

        “didn’t the people of palestine vote for hamas?”

        Run-down is a majority would likely have voted for a Hamas representative, but Israel complicated issues (wouldn’t let them, basically) so Hamas abstained from running for presidency. There was and still is resistance to Abbas’ presidency so yes, he does not technically represent the people at all. Israel got what it wanted – a Fatah representative. Apparently, they figured the Fatah guy’s knees bend a little better. Which is true, of course.

      • James
        September 21, 2011, 4:51 pm

        thanks ahvee… indeed abbas bends so much, he doesn’t seem to stand for anything, which must be just why the zionists and friends of israel like him in this role of rep for palestine… non-leadership at its finest from someone who represents 2/3rds of this 3 ring circus, excluding palestine of course…

    • American
      September 21, 2011, 4:31 pm

      “So where does that leave us?”

      Right back where it always was.
      Someday archaeologist will unearth a city below some New Nation that used to be Israel and underneath the state that use to be Israel they will unearth the state that use to be Palestine.

  4. mig
    September 21, 2011, 9:17 am

    “new round of peace talks is launched”

    ++++ I see. So what they are gonna talk about ? It has been nice weather ? How is your family ?

    • VR
      September 21, 2011, 12:17 pm

      They are going to crack jokes and laugh at everyone who thought there was going to be a showdown in the UN

    • AhVee
      September 21, 2011, 4:41 pm

      There won’t be talking as much as there will be smug grinning, knowing winks and a lot of brofisting going on under the Israeli side of the table. Etching another tally on the downside of the table with a butter knife marking yet another session of the same, tired old herrang.

  5. pabelmont
    September 21, 2011, 9:37 am

    If the “deal” sets forth the proposed boundaries and water sharing, and assures (independently of any other agreement) removal of settlements and settlers — and provides a time-table for agreement on the peace (boundaries and water sharing), THEN (IMHO) fine.

    Any other “deal” sounds like more of the 20-year same, at best an “agreement to agree” without details, without terms of reference, without all pre-conditions by both sides well set forth, etc., and should be denounced as a fraud.

  6. justicewillprevail
    September 21, 2011, 9:53 am

    How many times have we seen this charade being played out? The US brokers talks, the Palestinians lay their ideas on the table, the ones we have known about since the 1970’s, Israel either refuses to read the document, as it did last time, or starts demanding all sorts of conditions which they know the Palestinians can’t deliver, while grandstanding to the media outside, as if they genuinely wanted a settlement. Arbitrary dates in the future are announced, talks are ongoing, a road map is produced. Job done. Nothing whatsoever has changed, land and water theft continues; assaults and evictions continue, child kidnapping and torture continue etc etc. The threat of something actually happening is once again kicked indefinitely down the road. What a joke. The hypocrites and liars of Israel/US carry on as normal, and a few votes are pocketed.

    • Citizen
      September 21, 2011, 11:39 am

      Reminds me of the same way Obama handled the debt crisis. Root problems never addressed; kick that can down the road, where it will be bigger.Future generations can pay.

      • Chu
        September 21, 2011, 5:18 pm

        yeah c, the debt crisis is a great example. What a disappointment Obama must be to all the people who worked so hard to get him elected. A family member of mine, did all this work for him, spending hours of their week during his campaign, and now they really feel cold toward him. This ‘ leader’ has got a big problem when you promise great changes and deliver little in return.

        In retrospect, it was platitudes we were offered during his campaign, but cleverly wrapped up in a vibrant exterior –
        packaged wholesale for the masses. And there weren’t any better options in 2008, which is the saddest part.

      • seafoid
        September 21, 2011, 5:30 pm

        And the debt crisis is working out really well.

    • Shingo
      September 21, 2011, 4:57 pm

      If Obama really wanted to convince Abbas to delay thus bid, then his ridiculous speech to the UN would have rold Abbas that this is nothing but another cynical ploy on his part.

      I can’t even stand to listen to Obama anymore. His speeches are patronizing and and boring and he’s become a cinsimate coward and liar.

      • lysias
        September 21, 2011, 5:04 pm

        It’s become even more unpleasant to listen to one of his speeches than it was to listen to Bush’s.

      • Chu
        September 21, 2011, 5:23 pm

        Agree. this guy is a sad excuse for a leader. He just blew his chance to be a real statesman and played defense for Team Israel.
        He’s one of these people that you think, deep down, he may impress you and have something up his sleeve. But when it really matters, the guy comes up way short.

      • Citizen
        September 21, 2011, 8:22 pm

        Obama’s an empty suit, an affirmative action kid who likes power & the brand-savvy bourgeois life style. And to play status of former POTUS for all it’s commercially worth ever after to enhance & maintain this agenda, a very common one, the one most core in 99% of US politicians and most ambitious Americans. Other than being such a Prez, he does have one serious bone in his body, which is to implement legislation and appointments that most help black Americans in his opinion, preferably at the maximum expense of other Americans, preferably white males. He feels this is only just given the history of America. To accomplish these goals he joined Israel Firsters
        in Chicago and partnered with them all the way to the WH from his community service Acorn acrobat days. That he kept Dennis Ross on in such a key role behind the scenes, and sent him recently to the ME to redo his old “peace process” days says everything. Even Thomas Friedman now says publicly Walt & Mearsheimer were right: Follow the Israel First campaign $, follow AIPAC.

        Most Americans still have not gone to AIPAC 101 class. They still don’t realize there’s lots of “sky” between US and Israeli interests, despite what all the AIPAC lackeys say, a recent one being Joe Beiden.

        Obama made a historical mistake.
        Jane and Joe Blow need to wake up to the basics:
        link to

      • Chu
        September 22, 2011, 9:24 am

        Zbigniew Brzezinski made some interesting points on PBS last night. He believes that the Palestinian/Israeli issue is going to be taken over by Europeans and/or other parties that don’t play into the national political issues of the United States. Saying that local politics in the US corrupt the international process here.

        link to

      • Cliff
        September 22, 2011, 9:42 am

        He is absolutely right. Jewish heavy districts, etc.

        We are appealing to one demographic because of money. It is not due to strategic interests. Israel gives us nothing.

  7. eljay
    September 21, 2011, 9:54 am

    >> … diplomats warned that a number of issues remain unresolved, including a Palestinian demand that the statement include a requirement that Israel halt construction of Jewish settlements in the occupied territories.

    Same old.

    >> Israel’s position is unclear. Its prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, arrives in New York on Wednesday and has appealed for immediate talks with Abbas but without preconditions.

    Same old.

    >> The proposals under discussion would have the Quartet statement say … that talks will result in two countries with Israel as a Jewish state.

    Deal-killer (and they know it). Israel should not be a “Jewish state”. It should be a secular, democratic and egalitarian Israeli state, the nation state of all Israelis. And Palestine should be a secular, democratic and egalitarian Palestinian state, the nation state of all Palestinians.

    • Donald
      September 21, 2011, 11:24 am

      Yeah, what I think this means is that the US and its European allies are trying to pressure Abbas into more meaningless dragged out negotiations that will lead nowhere except maybe another unacceptable offer. What I can’t guess is whether the PA is in on the charade and only went to the UN to make it look like they were standing up to the West. I hope not.

      • Chu
        September 21, 2011, 5:32 pm

        Abbas needs to press forward and show some meddle. Unlike Obama, proving once again that he fails to be the
        dignified statesman when it matters most.
        After today, he’s looking more and more like Israel’s bitch.

  8. seafoid
    September 21, 2011, 9:56 am

    I couldn’t find anything about it in Ha’aretz

    Bibi has been leading Abbas on for the last year. Abbas knows he has nothing to say.

  9. Dan Crowther
    September 21, 2011, 10:03 am

    This just in:

    New York –

    Mahmoud Abbas agrees to delay vote, insisting that there are more serious matters to discuss, chief among them: the epic free fall of his beloved Boston Red Sox.

    • iamuglow
      September 21, 2011, 1:29 pm

      Damn that scared me.

      • Dan Crowther
        September 21, 2011, 2:10 pm

        Abu Mazen loves the sawx, what can i say?

        haha. Sorry for the scare, im left only with my sense of humor

  10. Remax
    September 21, 2011, 10:08 am

    It is time to recognize that this Palestinian state will require significant
    compromises and even dangers when it comes to our aspired notion of defensible
    borders. It is time for us to once and for all admit and unequivocally declare that
    the fulfillment of our rights to all the land of Israel cannot be fully expressed
    if we are to allow the Palestinian peoples’ rights to be respected as well.
    Not only must we have no desire to expand settlements but we must recognize
    and declare that many of those settlements – in particular those not
    connected to Jerusalem or located in one of the three settlement blocs – have
    no future and that Israel’s political, moral and Jewish interests lie in
    dismantling them.

    Donniel Hartman talking sense.

    link to

    • Shmuel
      September 21, 2011, 11:25 am

      in particular those not connected to Jerusalem or located in one of the three settlement blocs

      Why? These are precisely the settlements that preclude the viability of a Palestinian state and hinder access to Jerusalem (Hartman doesn’t even mention the settlements in E. Jerusalem) – which is why they were built in the first place! A map: link to

      Hartman is simply playing the game of making “peace between us [Jews]”, while completely ignoring Palestinian needs, rights and desires.

      • Mooser
        September 21, 2011, 11:34 am

        “peace between us [Jews]“,

        I think Mondoweiss should adopt that as its motto. I’ve never liked “the war of ideas in the Middle East”.

      • James
        September 21, 2011, 12:50 pm

        lol – there is a lot of truth to that! maybe that is what the rest of the world needs to think when any talk of peace or peace talks are mentioned…

      • Citizen
        September 21, 2011, 11:43 am

        Bravo, Schmuel. Don’t have a clue how Remax didn’t see that.

      • Remax
        September 21, 2011, 2:40 pm

        Sorry, I thought it was a start. ‘In particular’ he wrote. I didn’t imagine it would be the final line but at least he seemed to have accepted the principle. Leave that contentious bit out and you are left with: “Not only must we have no desire to expand settlements but we must recognize and declare that many of those settlements….have no future and that Israel’s political, moral and Jewish interests lie in dismantling them”. I may have misread it but it seemed to me a start where those connected to Jerusalem or located in one of the three settlement blocs could be dealt with next He didn’t after all say ‘so long as we keep…’. At least it is a step back from the whole area belongs, etc. plus he proposes settlement expansion cease and dismantlement begin. Were Netanyahu to have got that far, agreement would be under-way by now. No?

      • Shmuel
        September 21, 2011, 5:05 pm


        I’m sorry if I seemed curt, but I believe that Hartman is part of the problem, not the solution – perhaps even more than the settlers or Netanyahu. Attitudes like his were a start 20 years and a quarter of a million settlers ago. If people like him still seem “radical”, the situation is grave indeed.

        What is fundamentally lacking in Hartman’s approach, and in that of the Israeli left in general, is the recognition of Palestinians as equal human beings, with rights and interests of their own. They don’t want to live in bantustans, and they don’t want to be the recipients of “generous offers”. Although it is imperative to stop settlement expansion, and to realise that “many” of the settlements must be dismantled, it is equally imperative to realise that unless negotiations are founded on the principle of intrinsic equality, they will continue to serve the exclusive interests of the coloniser and oppressor.

        Hartman will feel better about himself as an Israeli and a Jew and, some day, may even self-righteously tell the Palestinians to “look for him when they are serious”, as a spurned Yossi Sarid did, years ago. When he his truly willing to recognise the “divine image” we all share, I’ll consider it a start, and a contribution to “moral and Jewish interests”.

      • Shingo
        September 21, 2011, 4:11 pm

        Yes, what is this BS about “fullfilment of rights to all of Palestine”? Another religious nut job settler?

    • seafoid
      September 21, 2011, 3:21 pm

      Donniel Hartman is the embodiment of the moral crisis within rabbinical Judaism

      • Remax
        September 21, 2011, 4:36 pm

        Well, what Hartman writes is sense. It may not be acceptable sense but at least it is not all that 4000 years of history stuff Netanyahu was on about again just the other day. If Netanyahu launches into that at the UN no one will miss Gaddafi.

      • Citizen
        September 21, 2011, 7:51 pm

        Head of Jewish American (liberal, progressive) Reform Judaism: US value of humanistic equality is not a Jewish value: link to

  11. Dex
    September 21, 2011, 10:17 am

    What a sniveling coward Abbas is! PA needs to be overthrown in a serious way…

  12. iamuglow
    September 21, 2011, 10:17 am

    Abbas, such a fool there was.

    This reminds me of when he caved on pushing the Goldstone report.

    Anything less than a vote that exposes the sham of US policy in the ME will be a monumental failure. After all this waiting, the talk, the suspense, the stage is set for the Palestinians to follow their own script instead of the one the US/Israel has prepared for them…The world is watching….What does Abbas do? Walk away from it, let the US/Israel off the hook so that they keep up what they’ve doing for decades, for what? A meaningless honorific and some agreements that will be ignored as Oslo has been. The game has always been, run the clock, build settlements and wait until the refugees are forgotten. Keeping negotiations outside the UN, disconnected from the legal rights the Palestinians have enabled this debacle to go on for so long. Return to table now and nothing will change.

    If this comes to pass, he is fool. IMO.

  13. stevelaudig
    September 21, 2011, 10:19 am

    The Palestinians are being gamed again. Its Charlie Brown and Lucy and a football. Obama continues to disappoint, fold and show no spine on any issue that matters.

  14. Kathleen
    September 21, 2011, 10:21 am

    Ok folks the Diane Rehm show is talking about the UN Vote for the next hour. Call 1800-433-8850 tweet, factbook, send in your question [email protected]. Blog your question or comment right here. Remember millions listen to these national radio shows.

    Be polite, clear, on topic when you deal with the screener. Letting them know you are a first time caller will help get you through. Make a comment, you could even mention Mondoweiss and then hopefully ask a question based on facts on the ground.

    link to

    • DBG
      September 21, 2011, 4:45 pm

      why do you constant bring up this woman?

      • Taxi
        September 21, 2011, 6:12 pm

        I guess what Kathleen relentless and tirelessly does for MW, what she’s FAMOUS for, went right over your head huh – otherwise you wouldn’t be asking such a stupid question.

      • Chaos4700
        September 21, 2011, 10:43 pm

        It must be nice to have massive blocks of PR firms and multi-million-dollar lobbying organizations, such that you never have to lift a finger or get your hands dirty doing any actual activism or even conversation to forward your political beliefs, huh, DBG. See, here in America — the part of it where we are, those of us who actually do actual work and sort of get paid to do it, rather than vice versa — we have this thing called the “democratic process” that we participate in. You may want to read up on it, since you seem to have such vastly underwhelming knowledge of what it’s like for the average person in the United States.

      • DBG
        September 22, 2011, 11:18 pm

        LOL, Chaos, it is nice that you think I am some kind of superstar or something, but I am probably your age and make less money than you do. Try to think beyond the rich Jew stereotype.

        As for activism, you don’t know shit about me. I really don’t know where you keep on coming up w/ this nonsense, you say the most outrageous stuff w/ out really having a clue what you are talking about.

      • Taxi
        September 22, 2011, 11:53 pm

        Most infamous people think of themselves as “superstars”.

  15. lysias
    September 21, 2011, 10:21 am

    Let’s hope any such deal includes a binding commitment from Israel to finally negotiate seriously.

    • seafoid
      September 21, 2011, 11:43 am

      “Let’s hope any such deal includes a binding commitment from Israel to finally negotiate seriously.”

      My husband has solemnly promised me this pregnant girlfriend will be the last of his affairs.

  16. yourstruly
    September 21, 2011, 10:29 am

    if the fiasco of this phony appeal to the security council for statehood serves to unite palestinian against their so-called leaders, abbas et al, albeit, unwittingly, will have advanced the cause of justice for palestine. palestinians need only to initiate intifada 3 and the middle east will erupt with a passion & might that could prove to be the undoing of colonialism in that region, with populist movements permanently replacing despotic, empire-usa controlled regimes.

  17. kalithea
    September 21, 2011, 10:41 am

    Excuse my French: Fu©k Obama and Tony Blair, Zionist asskissers, and their poodle Ki-Moon.

    If Abbas caves on this, he’ll lose the little credibility he already has with Palestinians. Abbas will go down in history as the donkey Zionists used to carry their water.

    Yesterday they were gushing on Libyan freedom and rushing to install a Libyan rag-tag opposition group suspected of including AQ sympathizers at the U.N.; today these “diplomacy” thugs are bedding with Zionists denying millions of Palestinians their rights after decades of suffering.

    This is proof positive that Zionists, now bloated with their ever-indulged hubris, don’t care squat about plunging the world into eternal war as long as their greed for an ever-expanding kingdom is satiated while the lackeys, the U.S or rather Zionist hotbed, Germany, the bearer of all the guilt dumped on Palestinians, and Britain, the former colonizer that washed its hands, are willing to sacrifice their own citizenry to an eternal war to persecute and punish Muslims in the region on behalf of these supremacist masters whose arsenal of weaponry includes not only hundreds of nukes, but the chains of guilt and religious supremacy (i.e. chosenness) that they wrap around susceptible Western countries.

    The monster is taking shape with our help while Obama will go down into the pages of IRRELEVANCE.

    • Citizen
      September 21, 2011, 11:46 am

      No, Obama will not go down in the pages of history as irrelevant, but as complicit in the USA’s great historical error (even bigger than Shrub’s war on Iraq).

  18. kalithea
    September 21, 2011, 10:47 am

    Obama is a confirmed raging hypocrite who does lip service better than anyone.

    The Zionist settler nation of Israel sent their Rottweiler, Lieberman, to the U.N. to ensure Obama knows his place.

  19. seafoid
    September 21, 2011, 11:05 am

    Bibi promises the dance of the seven veils to Abbas. Same old. He says he will hizz ya wizz and shake that thang. Abbas knows he is not female at this stage. He wants a real woman, Bibi. Palestine.

  20. Kathleen
    September 21, 2011, 11:17 am

    “to submit a request for recognition but for a vote on the issue to be put on hold while a new round of peace talks is launched.”

    “on hold” for decades as Israel moves towards a Greater Israel by continuing to expand old illegal settlements, build new illegal housing in E Jerusalem.

    I thought one of Abba’s holding points was that there was no way NO WAY that he would return to bilateral negotiations unless Israel stopped building, expanding illegal settlements and illegal housing in E Jerusalem NOW. Today not tomorrow Not a partial freeze or partial moratorium. STOP all building of illegal housing and settlements. Thought this was where he had drawn the line in the sand. Israel and Dennis Ross have to be chuckling

    • richb
      September 21, 2011, 6:46 pm

      Obama’s speech gave Abbas a spine. From the Guardian, emphasis mine:

      Nabil Shaath, the former Palestinian chief negotiator and part of the delegation at the UN, criticised Obama’s speech for failing to address what he said is the primary obstacle to peace negotiations: the continued construction of Jewish settlements in the occupied territories.

      “The serious gap in the speech had to do with the absolute minimum for the peace process … settlement policies, de-Arabisation of Jerusalem, the siege of Gaza,” he said.

      Shaath said that despite US opposition, the Palestinians will submit their request for full UN membership to the security council on Friday and press for an early vote. If that fails to happen, or the US exercises its veto, then the Palestinians will take the request to the UN general assembly which has the power only to grant observer status.

      He said that the Palestinians will not go immediately to the general assembly because they do not want anyone to think they are not serious about the request to the security council but that they will not wait indefinitely for a vote either.

  21. Remax
    September 21, 2011, 11:19 am

    ‘No’, said the cock, ‘and curses on us both,
    And first on me if I were such a dunce
    As let you fool me oftener than once’

    Chaucer, The Nun’s Priest’s Tale’

  22. Bravo
    September 21, 2011, 11:32 am

    no more negotiations.

    either israel plays ball, halts its settlement constructions and begins dismantling them or those settlements are removed through massive palestinian/israeli protests.

    well there is a third option, and that is that those settlements, and parts of israel, are taken during a regional war. the way israel is pissing everyone off in the region, i think this option is getting more likely by the day.

    so enough with the fucking peace process.

    • Mooser
      September 21, 2011, 11:37 am

      “are taken during a regional war.”

      Oh, they don’t have to be “taken” in a war. All the war has to do is pass lightly over them, showering blessings in its path.

    • seafoid
      September 21, 2011, 11:47 am

      so enough with the fucking peace process

      Mahmoud Abbas
      Benjamin Netanyahu


      The sketch:

      A customer enters a pet shop.

      Mr. Praline: ‘Ello, I wish to register a complaint.

      (The owner does not respond.)

      Mr. Praline: ‘Ello, Miss?

      Owner: What do you mean “miss”?

      Mr. Praline: I’m sorry, I have a cold. I wish to make a complaint!

      Owner: We’re closin’ for lunch.

      Mr. Praline: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this parrot what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique.

      Owner: Oh yes, the, uh, the Norwegian Blue…What’s,uh…What’s wrong with it?

      Mr. Praline: I’ll tell you what’s wrong with it, my lad. ‘E’s dead, that’s what’s wrong with it!

      Owner: No, no, ‘e’s uh,…he’s resting.

      Mr. Praline: Look, matey, I know a dead parrot when I see one, and I’m looking at one right now.

      Owner: No no he’s not dead, he’s, he’s restin’! Remarkable bird, the Norwegian Blue, idn’it, ay? Beautiful plumage!

      Mr. Praline: The plumage don’t enter into it. It’s stone dead.

      Owner: Nononono, no, no! ‘E’s resting!

      Mr. Praline: All right then, if he’s restin’, I’ll wake him up! (shouting at the cage) ‘Ello, Mister Polly Parrot! I’ve got a lovely fresh cuttle fish for you if you

      (owner hits the cage)

      Owner: There, he moved!

      Mr. Praline: No, he didn’t, that was you hitting the cage!

      Owner: I never!!

      Mr. Praline: Yes, you did!

      Owner: I never, never did anything…

      Mr. Praline: (yelling and hitting the cage repeatedly) ‘ELLO POLLY!!!!! Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing! This is your nine o’clock alarm call!

      (Takes parrot out of the cage and thumps its head on the counter. Throws it up in the air and watches it plummet to the floor.)

      Mr. Praline: Now that’s what I call a dead parrot.

      Owner: No, no…..No, ‘e’s stunned!

      Mr. Praline: STUNNED?!?

      Owner: Yeah! You stunned him, just as he was wakin’ up! Norwegian Blues stun easily, major.

      Mr. Praline: Um…now look…now look, mate, I’ve definitely ‘ad enough of this. That parrot is definitely deceased, and when I purchased it not ‘alf an hour
      ago, you assured me that its total lack of movement was due to it bein’ tired and shagged out following a prolonged squawk.

      Owner: Well, he’s…he’s, ah…probably pining for the fjords.

      Mr. Praline: PININ’ for the FJORDS?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that?, look, why did he fall flat on his back the moment I got ‘im home?

      Owner: The Norwegian Blue prefers keepin’ on it’s back! Remarkable bird, id’nit, squire? Lovely plumage!

      Mr. Praline: Look, I took the liberty of examining that parrot when I got it home, and I discovered the only reason that it had been sitting on its perch in the
      first place was that it had been NAILED there.


      Owner: Well, o’course it was nailed there! If I hadn’t nailed that bird down, it would have nuzzled up to those bars, bent ’em apart with its beak, and
      VOOM! Feeweeweewee!

      Mr. Praline: “VOOM”?!? Mate, this bird wouldn’t “voom” if you put four million volts through it! ‘E’s bleedin’ demised!

      Owner: No no! ‘E’s pining!

      Mr. Praline: ‘E’s not pinin’! ‘E’s passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! ‘E’s expired and gone to meet ‘is maker! ‘E’s a stiff! Bereft of life, ‘e
      rests in peace! If you hadn’t nailed ‘im to the perch ‘e’d be pushing up the daisies! ‘Is metabolic processes are now ‘istory! ‘E’s off the twig! ‘E’s kicked the
      bucket, ‘e’s shuffled off ‘is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin’ choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!


      Owner: Well, I’d better replace it, then. (he takes a quick peek behind the counter) Sorry squire, I’ve had a look ’round the back of the shop, and uh,
      we’re right out of parrots.

      Mr. Praline: I see. I see, I get the picture.

      Owner: I got a slug.


      Mr. Praline: Pray, does it talk?

      Owner: Nnnnot really.


      Owner: N-no, I guess not. (gets ashamed, looks at his feet)

      Mr. Praline: Well.


      Owner: (quietly) D’you…. d’you want to come back to my place?

      Mr. Praline: (looks around) Yeah, all right, sure.

  23. upsidedownism
    September 21, 2011, 11:51 am

    No way that Bibi wants a Palestinian state declared on his watch; even this”armored plated bullshitter” will have a hard time living that down for the rest of his life.

  24. Dex
    September 21, 2011, 11:51 am

    No more negotiations. We all know negotiations are a guise for more annexation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

    The Palestinians should offer a very clear ultimatum:

    Give Israel 6 months – 1 year to dismantle every single settlement, outpost, checkpoint, etc from the West Bank and East Jerusalem (and end its blockade of Gaza) and return to the 1967 borders; not a single inch past. If not, declare Oslo null and void and formally adopt/implement a plan that calls for one secular democratic state for Jews and Arabs.

    It’s really that simple.

    • seafoid
      September 21, 2011, 12:13 pm

      Just dissolve the PA, tell the donors to piss off and fall back on Israel as the occupying power with responsibility for the wellbeing of the occupied.

      • Dex
        September 21, 2011, 2:03 pm

        Palestinians need a clear and coherent strategy, particularly after the UN bid failes miserably to produce tangible results.

      • seafoid
        September 21, 2011, 4:30 pm

        I don’t know if it’s a failure, Dex. The world sees that the peace process is a sick joke. Israel is exposed for the lying racist pseudo religious ethnocracy that it is.

        For the first time in a very long time the Palestinians have stood up and made Israel look pathetic.

        I think we’ll see more strategy after the vote.

  25. Citizen
    September 21, 2011, 11:59 am

    It’s like Obama can’t even read the tea leaves blowing about in the Arab Spring & his own country’s terrible economic position; it must be the result of Israel First moneybags and MSM support because nothing else accounts for it. Here’s Obama today, speaking in front of the UNGA–note nothing on Palestinians, not one word:

    “Israel is surrounded by neighbors that have waged repeated wars against it. Israel’s citizens have been killed by rockets fired at their houses and suicide bombs on their buses. Israel’s children come of age knowing that throughout the region, other children are taught to hate them. Israel, a small country of less than eight million people, looks out at a world where leaders of much larger nations threaten to wipe it off of the map. The Jewish people carry the burden of centuries of exile, persecution, and the fresh memory of knowing that six million people were killed simply because of who they were.”

    As Kathleen concludes above, Dennis Ross must be chuckling today. This was all to be expected given Obama recently actually sent Dennis Ross to try to push direct talks in the face of Bibi’s nose-thumbing and continued land gobbling. Obama (& all the Republican contenders for next POTUS) is truly a disgrace. AIPAC gives new meaning to US leadership–de facto today a US leader is always a flunky of Israel, same as they are of Wall St. This means of course the US has no viable US leaders to put in top chair. We Americans deserve what we get. If you don’t like it, there’s more coming down pike.

    • Citizen
      September 21, 2011, 12:16 pm

      Obama at UNGA: Only Israel is a victim: link to

    • Antidote
      September 21, 2011, 4:16 pm

      “It’s like Obama can’t even read the tea leaves blowing about in the Arab Spring & his own country’s terrible economic position”

      Yes he can! Who wants economic competition from thriving Arab democracies and economies? What if they start selling their oil to whoever they want? Do they have reason to consider the US or the ‘quality countries’ in Europe as special friends? Will they embrace the financial system and trust US bankers? I hear G&S saddled Gadhafi with billions of junk stock before the 2008 crash. Well, at least that’s a non-violent way to bring down dictators.

      • RoHa
        September 21, 2011, 7:54 pm

        “What if they start selling their oil to whoever they want?”

        What if they start wanting to be paid in Yuan or gold dinars?

      • Antidote
        September 23, 2011, 5:34 pm


  26. kalithea
    September 21, 2011, 11:59 am

    Obama followed the lead of his Zionist masters after spending 10 minutes of his speech at the U.N. condemning oppression…in Libya and Syria and demonizing Iran at the U.N. and Sarkozy is using the same sickening hypocritical talking points: peace takes time blah-blah-blah, those poor Israeli mothers, blah-blah-blah. They treat us like dumb subjects insulting our intelligence at every turn.

    What should Palestinians do to finally get attention and be free of the oppressive rule of Zionists, SET THEMSELVES ON FIRE TOO???

    How much more must they suffer??? In his U.N. speech, Obama asked: Will we stand with the Syrian people or their oppressors?


    The grave misfortune of the Palestinians is that their oppressors are Zionist and Zionists are the ONLY OPPRESSORS who get away with murder!

  27. biorabbi
    September 21, 2011, 12:12 pm

    I’m quite proud of the speech President Obama made this morning at the UN. I find it interesting Abbas is so unpopular here. Are Mondo Weiss readers more catholic than the Pope, or does hatred of zionism trump all?

    Back to the President. His comments on the Syrian murders were pointed, stark, and eloquent.

    • Mooser
      September 21, 2011, 12:46 pm

      Thanks for the compost, biorabbi.

      • biorabbi
        September 21, 2011, 2:19 pm

        Thanks for the shout out, Mooser.

    • James
      September 21, 2011, 12:57 pm

      sometimes it is what a person doesn’t say that reveals more about them then what they do say… this seems to be the case with you and obama…

    • kalithea
      September 21, 2011, 1:17 pm

      Gloating over your success in putting the screws on Obama? And then you have the nerve to blubber: poor-poor us, nobody loves us…bah-waah-waaah!

      • biorabbi
        September 21, 2011, 3:44 pm

        I have the nerve and the right to blubber all I want. And I will.

        Kalithea, any thoughts on the thousands upon thousands of dead Syrians at the hands of Assad. Not too much blubbering about them. Outside of Obama today, precious little said. That speaks volumes to the state of the world.

        Obama is a great president. He is a zionist and friend of the Jews…. much to the chagrin of the left, the Christian right, and anti-semites and bigots everywhere.

      • Chaos4700
        September 21, 2011, 10:45 pm

        I guess newborn babies have that right, and if you want to embrace it go right ahead.

        Your “great President” is having his chances for a second term torpedoed by Zionists. So good luck with that.

    • iamuglow
      September 21, 2011, 1:35 pm

      You should read the comments on the NY Times article about the speech.

      “If the message is that the only way for the Palestinians to find peace is by declining to stand up for themselves, constantly backing down in the face of aggression, and capitulating to their enemies at every turn, I can’t imagine a better messenger to deliver that message than a man who lives it every day, President Barack Obama. ”

      link to

      Popular opinion is aghast as Obama. You’re all top heavy. Yes the politicos are pledging endless support and the MSM won’t cover reality in I/P, but a growing majority knows whats going on. You’ll have to reckon with this sooner or later.

      • seafoid
        September 21, 2011, 3:12 pm

        From the Guardian

        The extent of international support for a Palestinian state can be gauged from the fact that over 1 million people have now signed the Avaaz petition in support of it:

        link to

        In Britain, 93 MPs have signed Early Day Motion 2135 in support of a Palestinian state:

        link to

        See also: link to

        Jack Straw, the former Home Secretary, has written to all MPs asking them to support this:

        link to

        Public opinion polls also show that a massive majority of Europeans support a Palestinian state:

        link to

    • Chu
      September 21, 2011, 1:35 pm

      NY Times commentor made this astute comment:

      If the message is that the only way for the Palestinians to find peace is by declining to stand up for themselves, constantly backing down in the face of aggression, and capitulating to their enemies at every turn, I can’t imagine a better messenger to deliver that message than a man who lives it every day, President Barack Obama.

      link to

      • seafoid
        September 21, 2011, 6:00 pm

        Wow. Impossible 10 years ago.

      • RoHa
        September 21, 2011, 8:25 pm

        It looked to me (without counting) that most of the comments were pro-Palestinian, and the comments with the highest approval ratings were pro-Palestinian.

  28. eljay
    September 21, 2011, 12:14 pm

    >> well there is a third option, and that is that those settlements, and parts of israel, are taken during a regional war.

    As long as the U.S. and other Western nations (such as Canada) remain willing and able to back Israel virtually unconditionally, I don’t think anyone is going to take anything from Israel.

    The Palestinians need to stay calm and focused, and stick solidly to diplomatic language and positive PR. No talk about “the Jews”, no chants of martyrdom, no acts of unprovoked violence (and as much restraint as possible, in the short term anyway, from acts of retaliation), etc.


    • eee
      September 21, 2011, 12:53 pm

      Imagine that, eljay wrote the only rational post in this thread.

      • Chaos4700
        September 21, 2011, 2:26 pm

        Imagine that, eljay wrote the only rational post in this thread.

        Which is funny, because you just explicitly excluded your own post as rational. I will agree that eljay is rational and you are not, eee, if that is any consolation.

      • eljay
        September 21, 2011, 2:42 pm

        >> Which is funny, because you just explicitly excluded your own post as rational.

        That IS funny! :-)

    • Mooser
      September 21, 2011, 1:48 pm

      “Imagine that, eljay wrote the only rational post in this thread.”

      I think its horrible you should be trapped at a website like this. I’m all in favor of giving “Israelis” a hard time, but kidnapping, imprisonment and being forced to comment at Mondoweiss is going just a little too far.

      • RoHa
        September 21, 2011, 8:27 pm


    • Kathleen
      September 21, 2011, 2:18 pm

      yeah because MSNBC’s Richard Engel, Andrea Mitchell, Rachel Maddow and CNN’s Anderson Cooper and Wolf Blitzer will spend plenty of time on Libyan rebels carrying weapons, killing people for their freedom and justice but peaceful Palestinian protest no way…silence…no coverage.

      Their silence is total complicity in these crimes against Palestinians

  29. Kathleen
    September 21, 2011, 12:21 pm

    Listening to the Un opening statements
    link to

    Argentina Rep talking about the Palestinians bid right now

    Palestinians under pressure to drop UN bid
    Foreign minister says he was “amazed” by US efforts to persuade other countries not to support the membership effort.
    link to
    The Palestinians have came under intense pressure to drop a bid for UN membership as diplomats worked behind the scenes to head off a looming clash.

    Riyad al-Maliki, Palestinian foreign minister, said he was “amazed” by the US efforts to persuade other countries to not to support the Palestinian bid.

    “They have used different forms of pressure, threats, and many others, sending letters, sending ambassadors, etcetera, etcetera… Amazing,” he told Al Jazeera on Tuesday.

    The White House has said President Barack Obama would meet with Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas on Wednesday, after talks with Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu.

  30. Kathleen
    September 21, 2011, 12:23 pm

    Palestine & UN: History of a double standard
    The struggle for Palestinian nationhood is entering yet another new phase in its decades long history.
    link to
    Failure to resolve the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and Israel’s 40-year occupation, in the words of UN former Secretary General Kofi Annan, would “continue to hurt the reputation of the United Nations and raise questions about its impartiality”.

    No cause has consumed as much UN paper work as the plight of the displaced and occupied Palestinians. But hundreds of its resolutions on Palestine have not been respected let alone applied for over half a century.

    Nowhere has the UN ideals and mechanisms been more mired in power politics than in Palestine. The efforts to neutralise UN intervention have been championed mainly by the United States. This week’s efforts by the Obama administration working on behalf of Israel took advocacy into a whole new level.

    Washington has vetoed more than 40 UN Security Council resolutions critical of its policies some of which were drafted by its European allies. A quick look at today’s Middle East makes it clear that such obstructions worked for the interest of neither party, nor for peace and security in the region.

  31. Kathleen
    September 21, 2011, 12:31 pm

    Great article
    Dealing with Israel under a hegemonic crisis
    The global hegemonic order is being challenged at a time of crisis and turmoil in several regions.
    link to

    “The Israeli administration’s understanding of the global and regional environments are very problematic. From their perspective, there is a suitable environment for their policies and they will not be responsible for the consequences of their actions at all. The US is not in a position to influence them, and they may even meddle into the US politics. Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu’s defiance against the Obama administration exemplifies this mentality. This false consciousness made foreign policy concerns in Israel disappear and only Israeli domestic issues matter. It may lead to an Israeli ego-centric illusion at the administrative level with far worse consequences.

    Dealing with Israel is becoming more difficult under a crisis of hegemony. The strategic blindness prevents the Israeli governemnt from drawing lessons from the deteriorating relations, among others, with Turkey as well as post-revolution Egypt. Unfortunately, the Israeli illusion seems likely to continue at the detriment of the other regional actors, its allies and its own people.

    This article lines up with what former Bush administration official and former middle east CIA analyst Flynt Leveretts statements about US hegemony in the middle east
    link to

    • seafoid
      September 21, 2011, 1:06 pm

      Very interesting, Kathleen

      The US’s star is waning and Israel doesn’t get it.
      The backlash when it comes will be brutal.

    • Paul Norheim
      September 21, 2011, 2:24 pm

      And here is another great article at al Jazeera:

      “The humiliation of Barack Obama”

      link to

  32. Kathleen
    September 21, 2011, 12:36 pm

    Every UN Member is bringing up the Palestinians bid
    Lebanon up right now
    link to

    Issue of Palestinian refugees being brought up

    • Kathleen
      September 21, 2011, 12:45 pm

      Lebanese Rep bringing up Israel’s ongoing crimes against Lebanon. Sovereign rights over water and air space. Israeli aggressions against Lebanon. Occupation of Lebanese land
      Israel intensifies violations of Lebanon’s airspace
      link to

      Lebanon files UN lawsuit against Israel
      link to

      Israel’s UN violations
      link to
      link to

      • seafoid
        September 21, 2011, 3:29 pm

        That shining city upon the hill again

        30 YEARS OF VETOES 1972-2002
        The number of vetoes by the big five in the last 30 years; or, why China is the most tolerant country in the world.
        USA 68.
        UK 29.
        France 14
        Russia/USSR 14
        China 4

        During this period, the US blocked moves to:
        – Urge permanent members to ensure the UN decisions on the maintenance of international peace and security are observed
        – Call for developed nations to increase the quantity and quality of development assistance to underdeveloped countries.
        – End all military and nuclear collaboration with apartheid. Support the oppressed under apartheid.
        – Inquire into the living conditions of Palestinians in the occupied territories.
        – Help negotiations on disarmament and the cessation of the nuclear arms race.
        – Call for protection of developing countries exports.
        – Call for alternative approaches for improving the enjoyment of human rights and fundamental freedoms.
        – Oppose intervention in the internal or external affairs of states
        – Support a United Nations conference on women.
        – Safeguard the rights of developing countries in multinational trade negotiations.
        – Attempts to establish a new international economic order to promote the growth of underdeveloped countries and international economic cooporation.
        – Endorse a programme of action for the second half of the United Nations Decade for Women
        – Emphasised that the development of nations and individuals is a human right.
        – Call for the cessation of all nuclear test explosions.(again)
        – Call for the implementation of the Declaration of the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples
        – Affirm the right of every state to choose its economic and social systems in accord with the will of its people, without outside interference.
        – Condemn attempted coup by a party backed by South Africa in the Seychelles.
        – Call for action in support of measures to prevent a nuclear war, curb the arms race, and promote disarmament (again).

        – promote negotiations on the Prohibition of chemical and biological weapons.
        – Condemn Israeli invasion of Lebanon.
        – Declare that education, work, health care, proper nourishment and national development are human rights.
        – Call for the setting up of the World Charter for the protection of the environment (all those years ago ) now at last only just begining to see the light).
        – Support the United Nations conference on the succession of states in respect of state property, archives, debts
        – Support nuclear test cessation and negotiations on nuclear-free outer space.
        – Support the New World information and communications order.
        – Developed a new international law.
        – Protect against products harmful to health and the environment.
        – Declare that education, work, health care, proper nourishment and national development are human rights (again).
        – Protect against products harmful to health and the environment (again).
        – Develop the energy sources of developing countries (again)
        – Support international action to eliminate apartheid. ( and to free Nelson Mandela from prison ) (A SHOCKING 16 TIMES)
        – Support measures to be taken against Nazi, fascist, and neo-fascist activities.
        – Call on all governments to observe international law. (again)
        – Support a resolution about cooperation, security, human rights, trade, media bias, the environment, and development.
        – Support measures to prevent international terrorism, study the underlying political and economic causes of terrorism, and convene a conference to define terrorism and differentiate it from the struggles of people for national liberation.
        – Support opposition to the build-up of weapons in space. (again)
        – Support opposition to the development of new weapons of mass destruction.(again)
        – Oppose nuclear testing.(again)
        – Oppose the acquisition of territory by force.
        – Set up the International criminal Court.
        NOTE: partial list of US vetoes in the UN, printed in the Guardian, 20th of March 2003
        Also see “subject of UN Security Council vetoes.” link to

      • hophmi
        September 21, 2011, 4:03 pm

        Syria (excuse me, Lebanon) is criticizing Israel again? Big surprise.

      • Chaos4700
        September 21, 2011, 10:48 pm

        Jordan’s criticizing Israel again? Cuba’s criticizing Israel again? African nations are criticizing Israel again? Russia’s criticizing Israel again? EU officials are criticizing Israel again? UN investigators are criticizing Israel again? 90-odd percent of the General Assembly is criticizing Israel again? etc etc etc.

  33. eGuard
    September 21, 2011, 12:47 pm

    Why not recognize Palestine Friday, and start talking next Monday?

  34. Les
    September 21, 2011, 12:51 pm

    Robert Fisk seems to have sensed that this might happen.

    “if Mahmoud Abbas does not succumb to his characteristic grovelling in the face of US-Israeli power”

    link to

    • Kathleen
      September 21, 2011, 1:43 pm

      thanks..fisk always nails it. Lots of time over there. Up to his neck in the facts
      link to
      “Personally, I think “Palestine” is a fantasy state, impossible to create now that the Israelis have stolen so much of the Arabs’ land for their colonial projects. Go take a look at the West Bank, if you don’t believe me. Israel’s massive Jewish colonies, its pernicious building restrictions on Palestinian homes of more than one storey and its closure even of sewage systems as punishment, the “cordons sanitaires” beside the Jordanian frontier, the Israeli-only settlers’ roads have turned the map of the West Bank into the smashed windscreen of a crashed car. Sometimes, I suspect that the only thing that prevents the existence of “Greater Israel” is the obstinacy of those pesky Palestinians.”

      Fisk basically lines up with Measheimer. Two state solution over, buried, done. Greater Israel. He does not sound hopeful at all.

      • seafoid
        September 21, 2011, 3:24 pm

        The Zionists can’t stop. They have built themselves a fine suicide machine.

        It’s all unwinding the way it always would.

      • Mooser
        September 21, 2011, 4:31 pm

        “They have built themselves a fine suicide machine.”

        Nah, consequences are for all the little people. All the important people will just go back to the other side of the hyphen.

      • eee
        September 21, 2011, 6:50 pm

        Mooser and Seafoid,

        Suicide machine? So Israelis are going to die apparently. Who is going to kill them? You? Or your Palestinian and Arab friends?

      • Taxi
        September 21, 2011, 10:37 pm

        What part of the word “suicide” do you not get?

      • Chaos4700
        September 21, 2011, 10:49 pm

        Alarming numbers of Israeli soldiers commit suicide. Which isn’t a surprise, I’d probably kill myself rather then “just follow orders” and do those sort of atrocities.

      • Kathleen
        September 22, 2011, 10:05 am

        Ah yes Max Blumenthal
        link to
        link to

        If this is true this is extremely tragic. Just as it is for returning US Vets who have been sent off to unnecessary and immoral wars for oil, Israel and US hegemony. So so sad. Young men and some women who are on hormones and the military hierarchy and often rich and powerful usually white men (Cheney,Feith) send these often uninformed young men off to these tragic wars.

        Israeli soldiers with conscience should follow the example of
        link to

      • seafoid
        September 22, 2011, 10:24 am

        Israeli soldiers of conscience are welcome to my house. We have chairs for 8 people which should cover all of them .

      • eljay
        September 22, 2011, 10:49 am

        >> What part of the word “suicide” do you not get?

        He gets it. He’s just playing his usual idiotic game of baseless fearmongering and incessant victimhood.

        Someone could say “Israel is going to choke when the Palestinians get their state” and he’ll envision masses of skeeeery Ay-rabs swarming the Hole-y Lande, wrapping their dirty hands around fine Israeli necks and squeezing.

      • eee
        September 22, 2011, 10:56 am


        A suicide machine is a machine that kills you. So what is this suicide machine, how are Jews going to die?

      • Taxi
        September 22, 2011, 11:16 am

        “how are Jews going to die?”

        They’ll one day die like everyone else dies. And there’s no special kinda kosher Grim Reaper as far as I know.

      • Bumblebye
        September 22, 2011, 11:25 am

        eeeeeee, re-read the original. ZIONISTs have built, etc. NOT Jews. The ZIONIST state will not continue to exist in ITS current suicidal form, not with half the population of the expanded state being non-Jews. Expansionist zionism deals its own death knell. The demographics, etc. UNLESS there’s a sudden expulsion of yet more Palestinian refugees. Or the zios somehow manage to create mass infertility among current Palestinian population. Something or other ultra horrendous, while the world (at least in the form of our damned governments) looks on and does nothing.

      • Chaos4700
        September 22, 2011, 11:27 am

        So what is this suicide machine

        The blueprint was Zionism, and the mechanism is the Occupation.

      • eljay
        September 22, 2011, 10:45 am

        That Fisk article is wonderful (in a thoroughly depressing sort of way).

  35. eGuard
    September 21, 2011, 1:20 pm

    Both the New York Times’s piece and the BBC’s piece on Obama’s UN speech attract huge numbers of Palestine State supporting, against Obama’s stance, commenters. And very legible. Only about 1:20 is Zionist.


    • iamuglow
      September 21, 2011, 1:41 pm

      What is amazing is that these commenter’s aren’t getting their opinions from the MSM, television or newspapers…they are picking up ideas from misc sites on the internet, seeing through all the bs they’re being told about the ME.

      • Kathleen
        September 21, 2011, 2:15 pm

        You can bet there will be absolutely no coverage of the large peaceful Palestinian marches today on Lawrence O Donnells, Eds, Dylans, Hardball, Rachel Maddows or anywhere else on MSNBC. Not a whisper about these ongoing marches by Richard Engel or Rachel. They have had to cover Libyan rebels killing people for their freedom but peaceful Palestinian protesters or anything having to do with Palestinians seeking their freedom and justice not covered by MSNBC. Wall of silence about decades long Palestinians protest. Protest today. Silence which is complicity. The Arab Spring skipped over the Palestinians fight for freedom on MSNBC. Has for years
        Palestinians Rally for Statehood as U.S., Israel Press Opposition

        Tens of thousands of Palestinians are rallying in the occupied West Bank towns of Ramallah and Nablus today in a show of support for the statehood bid at the United Nations. The demonstrations come ahead of a speech by President Obama in which he is expected to press his case for subverting the statehood attempt. The Israeli government is also frantically trying to thwart the Palestinian effort. Israeli government spokesperson Mark Regev said Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will attempt to meet with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas on the sidelines of the U.N. General Assembly.

  36. Kathleen
    September 21, 2011, 1:33 pm

    King of Jordan up. Bringing up how illegal Israeli settlements are being built right now
    link to


  37. Kathleen
    September 21, 2011, 1:36 pm

    King of Jordan pounding on the illegal settlements
    “if they (younger generation) see law and compromise repeatedly fail”
    “seeking the justice of nations”

    link to
    “We seek a new and vigorous push” for “real statehood” “people to look forward in dignity and hope”

    King of Jordan said that Israel must put to the side their “fortress” mentality.

  38. Kathleen
    September 21, 2011, 2:01 pm

    Even the Rep from Finland brought up the Palestinian bid. “no time to waste”

    Columbia up. I have spent a great deal of time at the UN site. You can really learn a great deal. Takes one out of the US bubble
    link to

  39. Kathleen
    September 21, 2011, 2:06 pm

    Bizarre over at Democracy Now not one segment of the show today focused on the opening of the UN. The focus of one Rep after the next on the Palestinian bid. Nothing at Dem Now today
    link to

  40. Kathleen
    September 21, 2011, 2:23 pm

    Still listening to the UN opening. Aides, water, global warming coming up. Smaller countries less powerful not bringing up the Palestinian bid

    But look at listen to this one

    Whoa Tony Bennett
    Tony Bennett says George W. Bush called Iraq war a “mistake” & 9/11 thoughts
    “are we the terrorist or are they the terrorist”
    link to

    • Les
      September 21, 2011, 4:11 pm

      Tony Bennett’s apology was for upsetting anyone traumatized by 9/11, but he did not take back what he said Bush senior told him about the war being a mistake.

      • slowereastside
        September 22, 2011, 2:03 am

        That’s wild stuff from Tony Bennett. I had heard he was for the people but thats awesome! Anyone like his paintings?

      • slowereastside
        September 22, 2011, 2:14 am

        Check out his ‘apology’ . . .

        “There is simply no excuse for terrorism and the murder of the nearly 3,000 innocent victims of the 9/11 attacks on our country,” Bennett said in the statement. “My life experiences — ranging from the Battle of the Bulge to marching with Martin Luther King — made me a lifelong humanist and pacifist, and reinforced my belief that violence begets violence and that war is the lowest form of human behavior.”

        Classy stuff

  41. Kathleen
    September 21, 2011, 2:41 pm

    Peaceful protest and marches you will not be seeing on CNN , MSNBC. For MSNBC’s Richard Engel and Rachel Maddow to cover a people’s hunger and efforts to gain their freedom and justice they have to be carrying weapons and killing people (like the Libyan rebels that they covered day after day)

    link to
    link to

    link to

    link to

    link to

    • longliveisrael
      September 21, 2011, 7:52 pm

      Yes, very peaceful

      link to

      • Shingo
        September 21, 2011, 9:21 pm

        Yes, very peaceful

        I love this picture of the IDF guys wearing nothing but…oh never mind. I’m sure they were just defending themselves.

        link to

      • Chaos4700
        September 21, 2011, 10:50 pm

        YNet News: When you’re too polite to get your news just straight up from the Israeli Foreign Ministry.

      • longliveisrael
        September 22, 2011, 10:14 am

        Right Chaos, so that photo is from the Israel Foreign Ministry, it must be Photoshopped.

      • DBG
        September 22, 2011, 10:24 am

        wow, says the guy who comments on Mondoweiss.

      • Shingo
        September 22, 2011, 9:37 pm


        Apparently you missed the fact that Israelis are the ones carrying guns and shooting people.

        Never mind that – the realoutrage is that someone threw a rock and it hit an Israeli child. Who cares about the goyim right LLI?

        One Jewish fingernail and all that.

  42. Kathleen
    September 21, 2011, 2:53 pm

    UN Rep from Switzerland focused on the Palestinian bid
    “Peace process has replaced peace”
    link to

    Far more UN Reps have brought up the role of the Arab Peace Initiative far more often any US efforts. In fact I don’t think I have heard the US I/P efforts brought up once

    • Whizdom
      September 21, 2011, 3:50 pm

      I wonder if Obama’s speech will backfire. He didn’t put a firm rationale on the table supporting the US position. This could galvanize member states who really don’t like it when the US acts unilaterally and without firm basis in principles of the UN organization.

  43. Kathleen
    September 21, 2011, 2:58 pm

    Are Obama and Abbas speaking together right now?

  44. American
    September 21, 2011, 3:27 pm

    Oil embargo, oil embargo, oil embargo, oil embargo.

    In the 70’s we imported 35% of our oil, now we import 70% of our oil.
    Short of a ME war that is the only way to create a big enough CRISIS for the US over it’s Israel subservience.

    • eee
      September 21, 2011, 4:47 pm

      I thought the solution was BDS. Suddenly it is an oil embargo.

      It is a funny thing for an American to say by the way. Why would you want your compatriots to suffer? And if you are not happy with your country’s policies, change them using democratic methods, not by wishing for foreign intervention.

      • Chaos4700
        September 21, 2011, 10:51 pm

        Foreign intervention? Cough AIPAC cough.

      • Citizen
        September 23, 2011, 1:35 am

        eee, in America the highest form of patriotism is to criticize your government when it is in the wrong. America is still paying for the ’73 oil embargo, which it received because Kissinger convinced Nixon the Israelis really might use their nukes as they had been threatening to do.

    • DBG
      September 22, 2011, 10:27 am

      So an American is hoping for an oil embargo on Americans. Why do you live here? You want the American people to suffer more to punish Israel and Jews in the US? My grandparents, Americans, told me of the antisemitism following the embargo in ’73, is that what you want?

      Screw you American

      • Shingo
        September 22, 2011, 9:44 pm

        Why do yuio live in America DBG? You lcerelty love Israel more than the US, so what are you waiting for?

        My grandparents, Americans, told me of the antisemitism following the embargo in ’73, is that what you want?

        Israel could put an end to it by agreeing to end the occupation, but you would rather Americans suffer than demand Israel do the right thing.

        Don’t you feel like parasite? Even a little bit?

      • DBG
        September 22, 2011, 11:05 pm

        I have no idea what you just said Shingo.

      • Chaos4700
        September 23, 2011, 7:21 pm

        I’m sure your local technical or community college has remedial English courses. That should help.

      • Chaos4700
        September 22, 2011, 10:46 pm

        Screw you American

        And that really sums up what’s actually on DBG’s mind.

      • Citizen
        September 23, 2011, 1:36 am

        DBG, as I just told your buddy, eee, the highest form of American patriotism is to criticize his or her country when it is wrong. You’d find anti-semitism in a raindrop.

  45. biorabbi
    September 21, 2011, 3:33 pm

    Interesting take from a Fatah Major Domo today. He’s bringing up the American Indian as I have been accused here in the past in terms of diversion or diverting ‘the issue’ of record. Is it ok if ‘they’ use the Indian or Syrian example for their own purpose? Just asking…. I must confess that watching the UN in real time is a pass the popcorn moment. Back to the Fatah Major Domo:

    “Fatah Central Committee member Abbas Zaki told Palestinian television following Obama’s speech that “The time has come for us to stop differentiating between Israel and the US, because they are committing the same crime.

    “The Americans slaughtered the Indians there, so wouldn’t they be capable of slaughter here? The world is a small global village, and it is changing,” he added.”

    Bibi and Obama gave a great presser today. Not sure what the kvelling might do for Phil’s blood pressure, but if anybody needs a Valium, let me know.

    • Woody Tanaka
      September 21, 2011, 3:51 pm

      “a Fatah Major Domo today”

      Really? Major Domo (sic)? Kind of insulting, wouldn’t you say? How about if we refered to some random, but accomplished, Israeli politician as “Israel’s valet”?

    • lysias
      September 21, 2011, 4:08 pm

      So you guys think that, because the U.S. committed a similar crime in the 19th century, therefore it’s OK for Israel to do it today?

      Isn’t there the little matter of the intervening establishment of the international law that was a reaction to World War Two and of the UN, a resolution of which in 1947 is what gave Israel its legitimacy in the first place?

    • Egbert
      September 21, 2011, 4:16 pm

      Valium? Valium? What hapened to the Ziocaine? I guess it has been cut so much it has finally lost its power.

    • Mooser
      September 21, 2011, 4:25 pm

      “but if anybody needs a Valium, let me know.”

      Another drug-pushing rabbi. Typical.

      • Dan Crowther
        September 21, 2011, 5:12 pm


      • Shingo
        September 21, 2011, 6:12 pm

        Mooser’s hitting them out of the park today.

    • Shingo
      September 21, 2011, 4:38 pm

      Bibi and Obama gave a great presser today.

      If you enjoy watching 2 men giving each other fellatio. Personally, that image doesn’t do it for me.

      Not sure what the kvelling might do for Phil’s blood pressure, but if anybody needs a Valium, let me know.

      Based on the delusionary tone deafness of your comments, I doubt you’d gave any left to share with Phil or anyone else.

      You’ve clearly overdosed on them. Dial 911 ASAP biohazard.

    • Citizen
      September 23, 2011, 1:43 am

      biorabbi, why should Zaki differentiate between the US and Israel when all the Republican contenders (except Ron Paul) say there’s no space between the two countries, and VP Beiden said earlier there’s no sky between the two countries? In fact, nearly all US political leadership constantly tells the American people the same thing. Obama at the UN carried on about Israel’s interests; he didn’t even mention the occupation or settlers.

  46. ToivoS
    September 21, 2011, 3:59 pm

    Haaretz seems to be covering this story with a quote from a high PA official:

    “We will give some time to the Security Council to consider first our full membership request before heading to the General Assembly.”

    This doesn’t sound as serious as the Guardian story. But I guess it depends of the definition of “some time”.

  47. Remax
    September 21, 2011, 4:01 pm

    Just been watching an Israeli spokesman interviewed on France24. He says the Palestinian UN bid a waste of time as they don’t have nine votes and even if they did they would face a US veto, and they should sit down and start negotiating now in New York. But negotiations have got nowhere, the interviewer pointed out. That is because the Palestinians are divided, the spokesman said, and anyway there is Hamas involved.

    At that point time ran out, but one was left with the impression the Israelis want the Palestinians to drop Hamas and then unite and then start negotiations before Friday.

    • AhVee
      September 21, 2011, 4:52 pm

      “That is because the Palestinians are divided, the spokesman said, and anyway there is Hamas involved.”

      This hilarity has been going on for quite some time.

      [Palestinians are divided] – Israel – “Sort out your own issues first and get along, this is never going to work, we’re not prepared to negotiate with you guys.”

      [Hamas + Fatah agree and unify] – Israel: “Now Hamas is involved, this is never going to work, we’re not prepared to negotiate with you guys.”

      Herp and derp.

      • Remax
        September 21, 2011, 10:18 pm

        I watch a number of English language TV programs. What does not come over in a simple account of an exchange such as the one above is the ‘body language’ of the participants. All here will be familiar with the relentless robotic manner Israeli spokespersons adopt, but the self-consciously patient attention of the interviewers is also revealing. I would characterise it as ultra polite while not entirely concealing incredulity. Unless the viewer is passionate one way or the other, the interviewer’s is the attitude they are likely unconsciously to adopt. I mention this because official Israeli spokespersons’ contributions to debate are actually so counter-productive, it is astonishing they agree to send them.

  48. biorabbi
    September 21, 2011, 4:16 pm

    I have never been more proud of my president as I am today. The passion of his speech was only matched by his famous race speech. Love for Israel in the US is deep and widespread. That this angers some Palestinians is sad, for they misread the heart of the American people and our fragile experiment in liberty.

    • AhVee
      September 21, 2011, 4:55 pm

      “Love for Israel in the US is deep and widespread. That this angers some Palestinians is sad”

      “Love for Israel in the US is deep and widespread. That this angers the overwhelming majority, if not all, Palestinians is obvious and understandable”

      There, fixed it for you.

      On a side note, are you getting paid well to troll?

    • Whizdom
      September 21, 2011, 5:08 pm

      “Love” or enable self destructive behavior? Really, that’s not love. More like buying fifths of vodka for an alcoholic friend.

    • Dan Crowther
      September 21, 2011, 5:21 pm

      I hear and read this line quite a bit “the love of Israel is deep etc in America”

      my question is, how would you know? Your telling me that you have these conversations with non jewish americans? bullshit. You think that because you hear it from propagandists in the media. And dont tell me about polls etc., this is the country with a new WWII/holocaust movie every ten minutes, americans are so worried about being “anti-semitic” we’ll say anything to not be labeled as such.

      You really shouldnt conflate “love” with fear, guilt and intimidation. All of which would more aptly describe Americans feelings towards Israel.

    • mig
      September 21, 2011, 5:23 pm

      biorabbi :

      ” The passion of his speech was only matched by his famous race speech.”

      ++++ Someone should tell Mr.President that there are no races….

    • seafoid
      September 21, 2011, 5:36 pm

      “Love for Israel in the US is deep and widespread”

      Israel doesn’t put food on the table and it doesn’t pay hospital bills.
      And that is what is going to bring Israel down. Because America doesn’t need Israel.

    • Antidote
      September 21, 2011, 5:40 pm

      “our fragile experiment in liberty”

      def. LIBERTY (legal dict.)

      “The state of being free; enjoying various social, political, or economic rights and privileges. The concept of liberty forms the core of all democratic principles. Yet, as a legal concept, it defies clear definition.

      The modern conception of liberty as implying certain fundamental or basic rights dates back to the writings of seventeenth- and eighteenth-century theorists such as Francis Hutcheson and John Locke. Hutcheson believed that all people are equal and that they possess certain basic rights that are conferred by Natural Law. Locke postulated that humans are born with an innate tendency to be reasonable and tolerant. He also believed that all individuals are entitled to liberty under the natural law that governed them before they formed societies. Locke’s concept of natural law required that no one should interfere with another’s life, health, liberty, or possessions. According to Locke, governments are necessary only to protect those who live within the laws of nature from those who do not.”

      The reason why the Israeli ‘experiment in liberty’ is fragile is not that the Palestinians (and a great many others) are ‘angry’, or because there are and always have been threats to Israel’s security. That’s just symptoms of the disease: not living ‘within the laws of nature’ which grants the same rights and liberty to all individuals. The US has the same problem, producing the same symptoms. Well, stick together and love each other as long as it lasts. It won’t last. And you won’t be remembered kindly.

    • Taxi
      September 21, 2011, 5:41 pm

      LOL biorabbi, keep chatting with them nice love-fairies: keep singing tralalala everybody in America loves meeeeeeee!

      Advise to all zionists: I would fasten my seatbelt if I were you: it’s gonna be a bumpy backlash ride for the craven zionists right here in America.

      45% of Americans want Palestinian statehood, 38% against and 17% undecided. The president today clearly spoke on behalf of 50 million and against the 340 million remainder.

      Obama’s speech was written by the wicked Denis Ross and boy did Obama look like a weird and tired mesmerist up there behind the podium or what?! Very unhappy face, very ugly (what the heck ever happened to that spritey fresh face he used to walk around with a mere three years ago?) Indeed he looked like an old man who was angry and empty.

      Clearly biorabbi, you prefer your president to be a mere hollow shell with a looped “I love israel” on a nano-chip planted behind his ear.

      • Shingo
        September 21, 2011, 6:06 pm

        Indeed Taxi,

        This is what Biorabbi probabyl imagines a healthy and mutually respectful relationship would look like

        link to

      • Taxi
        September 21, 2011, 6:22 pm

        LOL Shingo! As usual, your video links are bullseye! That was sooo the way the prez was talking to his Palestinian ‘friends’.

      • AhVee
        September 21, 2011, 11:33 pm

        Damn, I laughed for a whole five minutes. :,]

      • Shingo
        September 21, 2011, 11:39 pm

        Thanks Taxi,

        Though to be honest, I was thinking more along the lines of the way AIPAC/Netenyahu talks to Obama.

      • eee
        September 21, 2011, 6:57 pm


        The funniest thing though is that you will soon have to choose Obama or {Romney, Perry} for President. Oh yes, what a backlash against Zionism. How are you able to write what you write when reality is clearly the opposite? Do you not value reality at all?

      • Shingo
        September 21, 2011, 9:29 pm

        That’s not fuinny eee, that’s tragic.

        What’s also tragic is that the US is headed for economic and probably social collapse, and all those dollars the US gives your little apartheid state won’t be worth the paper it’s not printed on.

        That’s when you will get a serious dose of what reality looks like.

      • Taxi
        September 21, 2011, 9:31 pm

        Huh eee? You’re blathering like a drunk in your post – I can’t make sense of the last two lines. But anyhooz, you should know me better by now old pal. You should know that I’d rather stab my eyeballs with a hacksaw than vote for Obama, Romney or Perry. Just as well there are other more amenable candidates AND there’s also NOT voting.

        And speaking of “re-a-li-ty”, yes we know you zionists are masters at it and us goy are just dreamy-eyed cuckolds.

      • Chaos4700
        September 21, 2011, 10:53 pm

        Rick Perry. The Republican Party will never field a Mormon as a Presidential candidate, especially one who has fielded bipartisan views (depending on which day of the week you ask him for his position on whatever, anyway).

      • Shingo
        September 21, 2011, 11:40 pm

        They might not field a Mormon Chaos, but they are sure to field a moron.

    • Kathleen
      September 22, 2011, 9:57 am

      “Love for Israel in the US is deep and widespread. ”

      That is a myth that has been repeated endlessly by our Reps. A requirement for keeping your job. I think what is deep and widespread is a level of compassion and a desire for justice for those Jews who have suffered in massive ways. But it if the American people were actually well informed about the facts on the ground in this conflict they would hopefully feel that same compassion and desire for justice for the Palestinians

  49. lysias
    September 21, 2011, 4:48 pm

    Erekat and Shaath both indicated today, Wednesday, that the PA is going ahead with its submission to the Security Council.

    • Whizdom
      September 21, 2011, 5:03 pm

      If they didn’t have nine votes before President Obama’s speech, they do now. Really an appalling performance, in delivery and content.

  50. thetumta
    September 21, 2011, 8:40 pm

    If they can’t find a way out of it now, we’ll be relieved of the burden of discussing it further(At this point, it’s a relief). It has become a very old conversation. The alternative is the hard men and war. Try not to be too surprised! Hej!

  51. Erasmus
    September 22, 2011, 2:37 am

    Shame – Shame – Shame on

    Obama the coward and undertaker of HR and International Law and
    the USA, Gods own Country of death penalty BARBARIANS!!!

    There seems to be no bottom deep enough, the USA and its bigot european allies could not sink……..

  52. sajepress
    September 22, 2011, 7:12 am

    It will be a disaster for Abbas to back out now. He has little credibility as is. Let the U.S. veto it. Even in defeat the Palestinian movement will have victory. Israel will never win. Ever.
    link to

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