Last Saturday I went to hear writer Saloma Furlong speak at a library on Cape Cod about her book on leaving the Amish, Two Lives in One--Inside and Outside the Amish. A tall woman of about 50, Furlong wore a conservative dress and had a very cheerful engaged manner.
The oldest of 7 children, she said she was devastated at 14 when she had to stay home and do housework and watch her siblings go off to school. Eighth grade is the end of schooling for the Amish, and Furlong said that the 90 percent plus retention rates for Amish children reflect the fact that many feel they cannot compete in the outside world, given their poor education.
Over the next few years she developed ideas that Amish call "unsifrida" (sp?)-- unsatisifed. The word generally refers to teenagers who date "English" people, travel long distances, take courses at a community college, or go to bars. Furlong wanted a much bigger life, but she believed that it would be "spiritual suicide" to leave the Amish. The Amish believe that "because they were born Amish, God wants them to stay Amish," and they would abandon the chance of salvation if they stopped being Amish.
Furlong had a war inside for several years about what that death would mean for her, but she decided to leave because of her troubled father. Her father was alienated and violent. He heard voices and had trouble leaving the house for the fields. He hurt his children. Furlong reached out to a county social worker. The second time that her mother turned down the social worker's offer to treat her father, that did it for the oldest girl.
An English family helped Furlong leave. When she put on a dress that stopped at her knees and took off her bonnet, she felt half-naked. The father of the family warned her that she must be very careful around men, they would try and take advantage of her. The next morning on the train platform he made a pass at her. She was getting on a train for the first time in her life-- fulfilling a dream. From the audience, a woman named Kolb who also left an Anabaptist community explained the terror of leaving such communities. "You don't know any of the rules. You look like them now, but you don't know how to act." Both women suggested that it takes years to overcome those fears.
After Furlong left, her mother accepted the social worker's offer. Her father went on medication, and for the last 25 years of his life, ending in 2004, "he ceased to be violent." The successful treatment of her father led many in her former community to trust doctors in the outside world.
By then Furlong and her English husband visited her Amish family often, though they were not allowed to accept gifts from her or eat with her. At her father's funeral, his widow and children surrounded his coffin in the courtyard of the church, and around them in a great circle were 400 members of a steadfast, rooted community.
"I just felt so supported by a community steeped in tradition, supporting us in our grief," Saloma Furlong said.
During the Q-and-A, I asked her what aspects of Amish life she thought were better than mainstream life. She said that the Amish have a greater awareness of death than we do. Life is provisional, they don't go nuts about safety (buggies) partly because they believe life can end when we least expect it. So they take each day as a gift from God, and try to enjoy it in the moment.
But she really likes having an indoor bathroom.
Nice post.
I liked it too. It shows that people don’t all have to adopt secular liberal values in the US. It shows there is value in living in other ways.
But on that first point, isn’t this all the self-determination anyone could reasonably ask for, Richard? The Amish want to live their lives in a certain way, very different from the American mainstream, and they are able to do it. So are the Hasidim. In some areas I gather there is more conflict between the Hasidim and their neighbors, and sometimes with their Jewish neighbors, than I read about with the Amish. But the principle is the same. You don’t have to have your own state to live with people who have the same beliefs and want to live in a certain way. You just need to live in a country which gives you the freedom to do that. One might have to compromise on a few points. Mormons had to give up polygamy (though here again there are apparently some who haven’t). But it’s doable, within reason.
“I liked it too. It shows that people don’t all have to adopt secular liberal values in the US.”
You are so right. We should just butt out, and give the “leaders” of these communities the power of life and death over their subjects. Especially the women! And of course, what they do with gays, or any non-compliant members is their own damn business!
We should really tattoo people with their birth-designation, so they can be returned for proper discipline if they run off.
Actually, Mooser, that right to flee would be part of those reasonable limits I was referring to.
“Actually, Mooser, that right to flee…”
Typical secular liberal, always ready to destroy the God-given authority of the community elders and fathers generally. So they are supposed to run a morally upright and God-directed community with no way to sanction or punish transgressors? Or carry out God’s commands? Why do you hate God so much?
They’ll have to make do, Mooser. It’s that whole freedom thing. I was trying to point out something to Witty about that, but you’ve got it all linked to the argument you’re having with Kathleen about the Amish, and I’m not interested. People can associate for whatever reasons they want in a country where we all have equal rights. They can join a cult, they can have orgies, they can form a society based on their reading the hobbit society in Tolkien if they want. They don’t have to have a Zionist or Amish or hobbit state to do any of it.
Over the next few years she developed ideas that Amish call “unsifrida” (sp?)– unsatisifed.
probably something like ‘unzufrieden’ in german.
and, yes, ‘nice post’.
“After Furlong left, her mother accepted the social worker’s offer. Her father went on medication, and for the last 25 years of his life, ending in 2004, “he ceased to be violent.” The successful treatment of her father led many in her former community to trust doctors in the outside world.
By then Furlong and her English husband visited her Amish family often, though they were not allowed to accept gifts from her or eat with her. At her father’s funeral, his widow and children surrounded his coffin in the courtyard of the church, and around them in a great circle were 400 members of a steadfast, rooted community.
“I just felt so supported by a community steeped in tradition, supporting us in our grief,” Saloma Furlong said.”
Evolution…improvement.
Art and Peggy Gish were raised anabaptist. One of my many trips over to DC to lobby against the invasion of Iraq (of course many other issues over 40 years of lobbying Reps) Art Gish rode with me and I asked him questions for six hours about Anabaptist, Amish, Mennonites etc..the history etc. Learned a great deal.
Spend almost every summer in Colorado and in Manitou Springs a large group of Amish spend time there drinking from the many mineral springs there. Have spent hours talking with this group of Amish who stay at the same motel year after year. As in all religious groups there are clearly different levels of restrictions, life styles etc.
Many Amish in Ohio. Many. Have deep respect for their simple lifestyles.
“Many Amish in Ohio. Many. Have deep respect for their simple lifestyles.”
You betcha! Why, if we all rejected medical care, stopped educating our children at grade eight (hey, it’s further than I got) rejected choice, and enforced rigid social mores through raw religious fear, this would be a better world today. And if we could only aquire a small percentage of their sexual suppression, what a wonderful world this could be.
Clearly you have never interacted with the Amish or visited one of their farms. Clearly you have never even talked with an Amish person. Very clear.
And clearly you do not understand their deep belief in forgiveness. That we know for sure
Kathleen, any time you want to join the Amish, you have my blessing. I certainly won’t stand in your way.
It’s well-known that one of the primary Amish characteristics is an almost complete ingenuousness when dealing with outsiders, so I’m sure you are well-prepared.
are you a rabbi, Mooser?
are you a rabbi, Mooser?
I think Phil is telling me I should be hopping along out of here about now. And I think maybe I should. I just wandered through the living-room, and found a copy of “Mennonite in a Little Black Dress” (Rhoda Janzen, Holt and Company, New York, ISBN 978-0-8050-9225-7) my wife is reading.
So that’s why she went off, ostensibly to work, this morning in an unmarked black buggy with tinted isinglass curtains you can roll right down (in case there’s a change in the weather)! Of course, she often goes off ostensibly, her bosom heaving (and it looks even better that way) but still…. Well, I better make like the proverbial Oryctolagus cuniculus if expect to catch her.
you’ll have to excuse, mooser, kathleen, he has a deep aversion to all things religious, religion after all being behind all that is wrong with the world. up to the 18th century at least. since then materialism and secularism have become ascendent, and life’s been one non-stop slumber party, popcorn and a movie in flannel jammies for everyone.
“he has a deep aversion to all things religious”
Gosh, I never knew I had personal friends who know that well and comment on Mondoweiss and never mentioned it to me!
My comment archive is available siomply by clicking my name (I begged and begged, but they wouldn’t make an exception) so why don’t you go find a single statement which supports your contention that “he has a deep aversion to all things religious, religion after all being behind all that is wrong with the world”.
And I mostly wear cotton pajamas, I hate popcorn, and I never watch movies except documentaries and travelogues. A guy can only take so much excitement.
Well, maybe you do have a point, marcb, but you have to remember, by the time I was bar mitzvah age, I knew I was destined to be a heterosexual. (It’s not like I didn’t try, but it was no use) And this led to constant friction, and eventual alienation from the religious authorities and family. My Mom was horribly distraught and hurt, but what could I do?
>> She said that the Amish have a greater awareness of death than we do. Life is provisional, they don’t go nuts about safety (buggies) partly because they believe life can end when we least expect it. So they take each day as a gift from God, and try to enjoy it in the moment.
1. Most – if not all – people have an awareness of death. I wonder how she concludes that the Amish awareness of it is “greater”.
2. Being aware of death should not mean throwing caution to the wind. That seems like a rather irresponsible way to treat a “gift from God”.
3. I don’t see how forcing a person to “stay Amish” helps with his/her enjoyment of life.
Aside from those point, good story. :-)
disagree. we all deny death. tolstoy’s big lesson in war and peace and ivan ilyich is Remember you are going to die, which is also the motif of Muriel Spark’s novel Memento Mori. some cultures are better at this consciousness than others.
“we all deny death. tolstoy’s big lesson in war and peace and ivan ilyich”
Yes sir, when I want to find proof for my contentions about human psychology, that’s the first place I go, to 19th century Russian fiction.
And I alway, always say what other people think, never myself. It’s a no-lose formula!
“we all deny death.”
Also disagree with this statement. Especially when you say ‘we all”. Just not the way it is. Different levels of denial and avoidance. Some religions emerse themselves in being aware of impermanence.
One of my favorite flicks about death. Ingmar Bergmans
“The Seventh Seal”
link to imdb.com
“One of my favorite flicks about death. Ingmar Bergmans
“The Seventh Seal””
One of the best movies about special-forces operations ever made, better than “The Dirty Dozen” by a mile!
I see you have got a Sixth Sense for puns.
“I see you have got a Sixth Sense for puns.”
Maybe, but I’d rather I had the five common senses. I just looked in the fridge, at least we have the four seasons.
I think they are more aware of death..and life….because their lives are simpler, uncluttered with all the meaningless trivia of modern life most of us live with.
yep think so.
Some dear friends of mine who both have PHD’s international studies and endlessly travel around the world. Said that when they were travelling soon after the horrific slaughter of those Amish children in Pennsylvania. That many people that they talked with were enamored with the level of forgiveness and effort to understand these deaths that the Amish demonstrated that had peoples earnest interest.
Pennsylvania Police: Amish School a ‘Horrendous Crime Scene’ After Shooting
Read more: link to foxnews.com
link to foxnews.com
link to ehow.com
Definition Of Forgiving
By Violet Christopher, eHow Contributor
updated July 17, 2011
Print this article
On a Monday morning in October 2006, a gunman entered an Amish one-room schoolhouse in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. He shot, in rapid fire at 10 young girls — killing five, before killing himself. Members of the Amish community, including friends and relatives of the slain, visited the gunman’s widow bringing food, flowers and hugs. At the killer’s funeral, about half those in attendance were Amish, including the parents of the slain children. The shock of the violent shooting was eclipsed by the speed and earnestness of the forgiveness extended by the Amish to the family of the gunman. This experience promulgated many thoughts on the subject of forgiveness.
Ongoing Process
A sampling of research results on forgiveness, compiled in 2006 by the American Psychological Association, defined forgiveness as a process — or the result of a process — that involves a change in emotion and attitude regarding an offender. Their research concluded that most scholars view forgiveness as a deliberate decision, one which recognizes that the victim deserves better but nonetheless allows for the surrender of resentment and thoughts of revenge. Robert D. Enright, Ph.D., psychologist, professor and founder of the International Forgiveness Institute, developed a twenty step model that details the process. For most people then, forgiveness comes, if ever, at the end of an emotional journey that may last months or years.
A Personal View
For the Amish, the process is not so lengthy. Forgiveness is a religious duty, a predisposition to forgive even before an injustice occurs. Donald Kraybill, an expert on Amish studies and author, wrote extensively on the Amish tragedy. When he questioned the Amish about their ability to forgive so readily, many referred to the Lord’s Prayer, which is prominent in all Amish religious services. God’s forgiveness, in the Amish view, means that they must pass it on to others. If they do not, they jeopardize their very salvation.
Read more: Definition Of Forgiving | eHow.com link to ehow.com
Forgiveness is liberating and deeply empowering.
“because their lives are simpler, uncluttered with all the meaningless trivia of modern life most of us live with.”
I know how you feel. You have no idea how oppressive the free choice of our secular liberal society has been for me. I have to make my own decisions for myself. Oh, if only some kindly old Bible reading-patriarch could relieve me of that burden, and make my decisions by divine revelation, with never a thought of self-interest!
Hey Mooser…..I am not extremely religious either, I tend to dodge ‘organized’ religion except for Easter, Christmas and other occasions when I ‘have to’ attend or get the evil eye from the rest of the family…..however I don’t begrudge someone what ever they want to believe as long as they don’t impose it on others.
But I do think that a simple life, less distracted by 24/7 media, crisis, gossip, and other assorted battering on their brains, gives people time …..to THINK …..about whatever they want to think about, even about what they don’t want to think about, and if examination of life and death are a important part of their religion or culture then naturally they are going to live with more awareness of their personal life meaning and the end of it —-then most of us who avoid thinking about it cause we are too busy with the necessities and accouterments of whatever our more complicated life style is.
“self-interest!” what the Bible is mostly about
“as long as they don’t impose it on others.”
And “others” of course, does not include their children. Children are property, and can be treated in any way desired.
Happy circumcising!
“1. Most – if not all – people have an awareness of death. I wonder how she concludes that the Amish awareness of it is “greater”.”
I also disagree with this. Many professionals agree that Americans are especially separated from death. Not the type of death and killing bang bang shoot them up on our MSM outlets but the real slow degradation of our bodies, minds etc that takes place for most. That as a culture we are often separated from this process. One would assume (really do not know) that the Amish are more likely to take care of their aged at home. Also the often farming and out door life that Amish generally live…critters dying, killing and processing their own meat etc puts one more in touch with life and death
“we all deny death”
Says the guy who has never even considered riding a motorcycle.
>> disagree. we all deny death.
Denying death is different than having a “greater awareness” of it. I get that some peole may not accept or embrace the inevitability of death / their mortality as well as others, but that doesn’t mean they’re not aware of it.
The major religions make it quite clear that we are mortal. How, then, do the Amish have a “greater awareness” of death than do hundreds of millions of Christians, Jews and Muslims?
>> Denying death is different than having a “greater awareness” of it.
Correction: Denying death is not the same as being unaware of it.
I think the key to this difference of opinion is the difference between “aware”..vr…”more aware”.
>> I think the key to this difference of opinion is the difference between “aware”..vr…”more aware”.
I agree, which is why in my original post I said “I wonder how she concludes that the Amish awareness of it is ‘greater’.” I’m curious to know.
really interesting entry phil.
thanks annie, i try and get out now and then
unlike the moose…r
“unlike the moose…r”
No, when it comes being a man-of-the-world, I can’t hold a candle to the Amish.
RE: “But she really likes having an indoor bathroom.” ~ Weiss
MY COMMENT: Praise be to John Harington and Thomas Crapper!
NOW FOR A LITTLE “POTTY TALK” FROM WIKIPEDIA:
Too bad I was not able to comment earlier, so most will miss this, but I have a lot of experience with Anabaptists (Mennonites and Amish). As someone who grew up in a post-Mennonite home (my parents left the Mennonites during WWII because my mother worked in a defense related industry and, since Mennonites are pacifists, they were shunned as a result, though in all other areas my parents kept their Mennonite upbringing; most of my relatives were Mennonite); I am used to the idealized view of Anabaptists in the U.S.
As with any culture, there is good (promoting a civilized life involving a strong work ethic and concern for the community of believers) and bad (suppression of expression, hatred of the Other, suppression of intellectual freedom and openness to new ideas). The restrictions Anabaptists place on their children are all designed to keep them “in the fold” and prevent them from joining “the world”. This has been largely successful for over 300 years, but the pressures of mass communications and agribusiness are eroding their isolation.
Some commenters have alluded to how lucky Anabaptists are to be cut off from our sick and militarizing culture. This is true. I personally have had no problem not having a TV (maybe because we didn’t have one for much of my childhood), getting my information from sources I select on the internet. The past week of anesthetizing the masses with 9/11 hysteria is a good example of the corrupting influence mass media has on our culture, to say nothing about the cult of celebrity and the obsession with professional sports. The honest approach to death by Anabaptists is due to their closeness to nature as small farmers, something very rare in a culture dominated by agribusiness.
However, the Anabaptist practice of rejecting “the world” comes at a high cost. There is a stifling of individual expression and visceral attempt to hang on to a prescientific world view (Creationism, rejection of all technology except for utilitarian purposes to improve farming, anti-intellectualism; a literal, ahistorical acceptance of the Bible). The practice of shunning, rejecting those who have “left the fold” (the analogy with sheep is appropriate), is a heartless practice which belies the innocence which outsiders attribute to Anabaptists. This practice involves being rejected by family and the community they grew up in of individuals who dare to question orthodoxy and seeing them as dead to the community.
Personally, I take my inspiration from Spinoza and his struggle against the Orthodox Jewish community of Amsterdam during his lifetime.
“Personally, I take my inspiration from Spinoza and his struggle against the Orthodox Jewish community of Amsterdam during his lifetime.”
Praise be to Jehovah, Spinoza won that fight (he’s TNT, dynamite, a power load) and you can smoke all the pot you want in Amsterdam today.
If you ask me, it serves those Orthodox shikkers right!
BTW, I would like to give a fond farewell, and my best wishes to all Mondoweiss commenters who are leaving to join the Amish, but has anybody checked their views on I-P issues?