A society coming apart at the seams: Settlers attack IDF in the West Bank

Israel/Palestine
on 75 Comments

More on the death throes of Greater Israel. From Haaretz:

Dozens of Jewish settlers surrounded an IDF patrol vehicle on Wednesday evening near the Shilo settlement, setting up roadblocks and physically assaulting IDF soldiers.

The incident began after rumors circulated that the Gal Yosef illegal outpost is about to be evacuated. At approximately 9 P.M. the settlers erected roadblocks and blocked the entrance to the outpost with their cars.

An IDF patrol vehicle that arrived on the scene was blocked by settlers. The soldiers tried to turn back, but were stopped by more roadblocks.

The vehicle was then surrounded by a few dozen youth from nearby settlements. When the soldiers asked them to let the vehicle pass, one of the soldiers was punched in the face, prompting a violent clash between the two sides. Soldiers who were called to the scene were able to detain one of the attackers, but he managed to escape.

A senior IDF commander said that “the army sees this incident as crossing a red line, and the settlers who were involved in violence against the soldiers will be arrested soon by the police.”

Officers serving in the West Bank have reported recently that tensions between security forces and settlers are on the rise. According to one senior office, “the security forces spend more time dealing with incidents involving Israeli citizens than confronting Palestinian terrorism.”

About Adam Horowitz

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75 Responses

  1. James
    October 6, 2011, 1:04 pm

    one can quickly imagine if this same event happened with palestinians, as opposed to settlers… 2 tiered system at work……………

  2. Bill in Maryland
    October 6, 2011, 1:19 pm

    That’s right, where was the tear gas? Where was the skunk water?

  3. Dan Crowther
    October 6, 2011, 1:21 pm

    Well, when you fill peoples heads up with nonsense for decades – this sort of thing can and will happen. These people think that the land between the river and the sea ( and much more) was “given” to them by the man in the sky – and this idea has been reinforced for generations. And the current government is on the side of these people.
    So, its the government, settlers and parts of the IDF leadership against alot of Jewish Israeli society, other parts of the IDF and all the Palestinians.

    It will be interesting to see where this leads….

  4. Tzombo
    October 6, 2011, 1:26 pm

    So attacking the Israeli army is ‘crossing a red line’, but attacking Palestinian civilians is perfectly fine?

  5. Potsherd2
    October 6, 2011, 1:29 pm

    The IDF has racist weapons, they can only fire at Palestinians but never at Jews.

    • Antidote
      October 6, 2011, 4:02 pm

      September, 2000: The Project for the New American Century published Rebuilding America’s Defenses. The report is available at http://www.newamericancentury.org. It mentions biological weapons that target “specific genotypes.” “Genotype” refers to race. The PNAC report states:

      “Although it may take several decades for the process of transformation to unfold, in time, the art of warfare . . . will be vastly different than it is today . . . advanced forms of biological warfare that can ‘target’ specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool.” [32]

      April, 2003: The Washington Post revealed the South African government wanted to develop weapons that would target blacks.

      “More sinister were the attempts – to use science against the country’s black majority population. Daan Goosen . . . says he was ordered . . . to develop ways to suppress population growth among blacks, perhaps by secretly applying contraceptives to drinking water. Basson also urged scientists to search for a ‘black bomb,’ a biological weapon that would select targets based on skin color.” [33]

      http://www.radioliberty.com/nlapr03.html

      • ToivoS
        October 6, 2011, 10:49 pm

        Don’t worry about any genetic bombs. Any unique genetic haplotypes the the Palestinians posses the Ashkenazi Jews from Europe also posses. Also the haplotypes that distinguish the Palestinians from the Ashkenazi also happen to be distributed throughout the Mediterranean (Turkey, Greece, Italy, Spain and northern Africa). Given that the genetic engineering technology does not exist, even if it did in principle, it would fail to focus on Israeli’s enemies without taking out Israel’s allies.

      • Antidote
        October 7, 2011, 12:27 am

        toivoS, let’s hope the weapon developers, frustrated by such complications, come around to recognizing that they’ve been chasing and defending phantoms.

      • alec
        October 7, 2011, 3:57 am

        The Israelis already tried this. They do a lot of deep genetic research on the difference between Europeans and Jews and Arabs and Jews.

        Unfortunately Israelis coveting a secret weapon are screwed:

        Ashkenazi Jews are not sufficiently distinguishable from Europeans to allow them to target Europeans without putting a huge proportion of Ashkenazi at risk.

        Extremely ironically, Palestinians for the most part share DNA with Sephardic Jews. Many Palestinians are Jews from way back.

        So the avenue has been explored, is being explored but is fruitless. On the other hand, the separate drinking water shenanigans going on Israel does worry me.

        What do these Israeli monsters have to do before the diaspora wakes up? Hint it was not much fun being German from 1945 through 1980. Even now the Germans have to tread very softly.

      • Antidote
        October 7, 2011, 5:40 am

        “On the other hand, the separate drinking water shenanigans going on Israel does worry me.”

        They can always shout ‘classic anti-semitic trope’ if someone finds out. Jews poisoning wells? Foxman to the rescue. Then again, the early Knesset did actually debate plans to poison German drinking water. Luckily the Germans were worth more being alive and help build Israel than being dead.

    • pabelmont
      October 6, 2011, 4:05 pm

      Yes, and if the IDFers fire at the legs of the Israeli settlers, chances are they will either miss entirely or else actually hit them in the legs (and not in the head and upper body, where shots aimed at the legs of Palestinians so often end up).

  6. Justice Please
    October 6, 2011, 1:30 pm

    “the security forces spend more time dealing with incidents involving Israeli citizens than confronting Palestinian terrorism”

    Why doesn’t he call it Israeli terrorism?

    • AhVee
      October 8, 2011, 7:31 am

      “Why doesn’t he call it Israeli terrorism?”

      Maybe for fear of a collective settler uprising against the IDF? How many more infringements of their perceived impunity will the settlers swallow before they start shrieking and swinging the anti-zionite Mjölnir at the IDF and start demanding ‘adequate’ restructuring of the IDF administration, until it adequately considers the needs and concerns of settlers a.k.a. turns a blind eye altogether?

  7. Chu
    October 6, 2011, 1:34 pm

    those poor settlers. They are feeling threatened about their right to the homeland that God promised them a few thousand years ago. It’s no wonder they got a little crazy when the IDF came around. Only this time, the boogeyman that limits their expansionary freedom is their government IDF officers. I’d be confused as well if I were a settler.

    But, they’ll likely work this skirmish out behind closed doors.

  8. NorthOfFortyNine
    October 6, 2011, 1:56 pm

    eee,

    Were the settlers “provoked” again?

    -N49.

    • Shingo
      October 6, 2011, 5:23 pm

      Were the settlers “provoked” again?

      Or were the IDF.

      Poor eee, faced Roth such a conundrum. They were all Jewish, so someone was provoked, but no Palestinians involved.

    • Real Jew
      October 6, 2011, 5:36 pm

      N49, hahaha bingo. I would love to hear eee’s prattle about this incident. Im sure he’ll think of something to justify it. I predicted the settlers would begin attacking the IDF and lo and behold the terrorists that Israel has purposely created and supported is beginning to attack them…shocker

      • NorthOfFortyNine
        October 7, 2011, 3:00 am

        RJ,

        eee seems to have skadaddled. It has been a bad week for the “We — Israel –are just another normal western-style democracy” crowd.

        -N49.

        ps — That dude with the shiv caught on tape trying to stab “leftists” outside the settlement gate — is he in detention yet? eee, you appeared to be in touch with this group, if indirectly. Can you tell us if the dude who was caught on tape trying to stab people with a concealed knife has been arrested yet? Hey, tyia. -N49.

      • Mooser
        October 7, 2011, 1:24 pm

        “I would love to hear eee’s prattle about this incident.”

        We’ve already heard that. “eee” dismissed the activists as “leftists” and said they were just getting theirs, since the “leftists” have been “attacking Israelis for years”.
        Frankly, those “leftists” are just getting what they deserved for establishing the kibbutz system. Wait a minute, now I’m confused.

      • Real Jew
        October 7, 2011, 4:26 pm

        Mooser n49, good point. eee’s logic is really out of this world I’m absolutely dumfounded how he arrives at his conclusions. His convictions have made him blind to reality.

  9. BillM
    October 6, 2011, 1:58 pm

    We’re getting closer and closer to the inevitable moment. The settler mobs are useful and indeed necessary in controlling Palestine, but it is inevitable that anything so empowered and required to be so extremist would also turn and fight the other controlling entity, the Israeli state. The state will have to violently rein them in at some point, or else lose the West Bank anyway.

    The US suffered a similar problem in Afghanistan, arming and empowering the mujahedeen to fight the Soviets, and specifical arming the most ideological and extremist (to make sure they wouldn’t compromise). Eventually, the tactic must rebound, as is happening now for Israel.

    • seafoid
      October 6, 2011, 5:03 pm

      http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/80189/the-existential-threat-of-settler-violence/

      Last week, a group of Israeli peace activists made their way to Anatot, a settlement northeast of Jerusalem. They were there to accompany Yasin Abu Saleh el-Rifai, a Palestinian farmer whose land had been seized. Some of them were holding Palestinian flags. A group of Anatot’s residents came out, threw punches, spat out some crass words. Later that evening, the activists returned to Anatot to protest. The settlers came out en masse, with knives and rocks and clenched fists.

      You can watch what happened next on the video below. You can read about the same ideological milieu, Israel’s burgeoning and beastly rabid right, torching a mosque in northern Israel earlier this week, vandalizing the home of a well-known peace activist in Jerusalem, even infiltrating an Israel Defense Forces base and destroying vehicles and equipment to protest the army’s demolition of three illegally built houses in the Migron outpost.

      The violence is epidemic. And it’s only going to get worse. There is no greater threat to Israel’s security.

  10. Mndwss
    October 6, 2011, 2:33 pm

    Eloi people biting the hand of the long arm of the Eloi government?

    Will the Eloi people and their Eloi state survive when the Morlocks come knocing on their stolen doors?

  11. Pamela Olson
    October 6, 2011, 2:48 pm

    “Soldiers who were called to the scene were able to detain one of the attackers, but he managed to escape.”

    Ah, those wily settlers, forever evading those Keystone Kops called the Israeli army. I have a feeling if they had been “detaining” a Palestinian who punched a soldier in the face, he would never have “escaped.” In fact, he would probably have been shot dead before he ever came near a soldier, and a nice story would have been concocted about how he had been carrying a knife or explosives.

    The Israeli army makes me sick the way it handles psychopathic settlers with kid gloves. They (and their government, which makes the policies and winks and nudges when they bludgeon unarmed Palestinians and do nothing while settlers go on their pogroms) are much more to blame than anyone. Except maybe the US Congress, which spoils Israel until it’s rotten to the core.

  12. Elliot
    October 6, 2011, 3:59 pm

    The model that settlers can attack Israeli soldiers with impunity dates back to the immediate aftermath of the 1967 occupation of the West Bank by Israel. The precedent originates with Rabbi Levinger, the founder of the most explosive settlements – the settler compound that dominates the heart of Hebron. His wife famously slapped an Israeli soldier. Although the issue of has been aired in the Israeli courts, everybody knows who the Israeli army works for in the war that the settlers wage against the Palestinians.

  13. pabelmont
    October 6, 2011, 4:06 pm

    Feel sorry, too, for the poor IDFers — at least for those who are settlers at heart. Imagine arresting, beating, or shooting people who are only, as such people well know, doing God’s will.

    They should refuse to serve in the occupied territories, like other refusniks who answer to a kinder God not so concentrating on his real estate license.

  14. seafoid
    October 6, 2011, 4:29 pm

    http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2008/feb/14/olmert-israel-the-change

    The settlement project grew to its present dimensions in the years after the great victory of 1967. After three wars, terror, superinflation, two intifadas, suicide bombers, and other troubles, a defiant and seemingly unreal cast of mind has taken hold among many Israelis. I have observed this mindset in my own family. It is well described by Sylvain Cypel, a French observer and editor of Le Monde, who spent many years in Israel, in his insightful book Walled: Israeli Society at an Impasse. He writes, “The occupation automatically reinforced the most ethnicist tendencies.”

    The original French title of the book, Les Emmurés—those walled in—better expresses the peculiar mixture of joie de vivre, arrogance, provincialism, aggressiveness, fear of another Holocaust, and claustrophobia that has struck foreign observers and also some Israelis for years. All Israeli governments after 1967—whether on the right or the left—supported the settlement project more or less enthusiastically. When the project began, the world was in an age of decolonization, and the Algerian war had occurred less than a decade before. How Israeli leaders thought they could get away with a permanent occupation without provoking another war remains a mystery. Ben-Gurion, then out of office, advocated a quick withdrawal.

    The Israeli writers Idith Zertal and Akiva Eldar, in their excellent, well-documented book Lords of the Land, write:

    Deception, shame, concealment, denial, and repression have characterized the state’s behavior with respect to the flow of funds to the settlements. It can be said that this has been an act of duplicity in which all of the Israeli governments since 1967 have been partner. This massive self-deception still awaits the research that will reveal its full magnitude

    The project soon appealed to non-ideological, secular Israelis in search of cheaper housing. To protect them against the anger of Palestinians, whose lands they often took over, they were given arms. The settlements were surrounded by moats and electronic fences; but the houses were up to 50 percent cheaper than in Israel proper. The Israeli government built an enormous new network of roads and tunnels allowing settlers to commute easily to Jerusalem and Tel Aviv without, in most cases, encountering—or even setting eyes on—a single Palestinian except in the far distance.

    At a certain moment, the settlers indeed became, like the title of Zertal and Eldar’s book, lords of the land, well connected, politically powerful, represented in the cabinet, in the Knesset, in the government bureaucracy, and, above all, in the army. There are now second- and third-generation settlers. Many of them, raised amid the constant violence and conflict of the West Bank, act in wild and aggressive ways. Some of them are frequently involved in nasty skirmishes with Palestinians. Armed with weapons supplied by the army for self-defense, they harass Palestinian shepherds with impunity, uproot olive groves, poison fields and plants in the hope of forcing Palestinians to abandon nearby lands. They often enter Palestinian villages shooting wildly in the air.

    Known as noar hagvaot—youths of the hilltops—they “occupy” hills at a distance from their settlements to create “outposts” of new “Jewish presence.” They begin by putting up a tent and planting flags. Soon a few trailers roll up—no one knows exactly from where—and a number of mobile huts arrive by truck.

    The police rarely if ever intervene. Local policemen in the settlements are often settlers themselves. Young families from the settlements move into the trailers and huts with their numerous children who, of course, cannot be abandoned. Water pipes are laid by the national water company and the electric company connects the “outpost” to the national grid. Before long, an asphalt access road to the outpost has been constructed, and since the settlers could be attacked, a few soldiers are permanently posted on site for their protection. No exact information is available on who pays for these services. Very likely it’s the taxpayer. But this, more or less, is how 105 allegedly “unauthorized” settlements or outposts came into being in recent years, with an estimated population of two thousand.

  15. seafoid
    October 6, 2011, 5:09 pm
    • john h
      October 7, 2011, 3:32 am

      Yossi says it has to be someone, it just can’t be Israel.

      “Zionism, after all, was a revolt against Jewish fatalism.”

      No, it was a revolt against Jewish faith. And it was seen as such by the vast majority of rabbis up until Nazism showed its ugly face.

      “If you will it, said Zionist founder Theodore Herzl, it is no dream.”

      So said the Nazis, the communists, and the apartheid regime. Their impossible dream only lasted for a time, and so will Herzl’s impossible Zionist dream.

      “I will not be seeking forgiveness from those who deny my right to be.”

      Few if any deny your right to be Jewish in Palestine. What is denied is your right to set your will to ride roughshod over another people to fulfil your fairytale dream.

      That dream is a form of idolatry in revolt against Jewish faith, a faith that requires repentance toward God that brings forgiveness from him.

    • Shmuel
      October 7, 2011, 3:39 am

      It’s the fairies whatdunnit

      Everyone always blames the fairies, but my money’s on the pixies.

      • RoHa
        October 7, 2011, 3:55 am

        Anti-Pixite.

      • Shmuel
        October 7, 2011, 4:05 am

        So it was OK when seafoid blamed the fairies, but God-forbid anyone should say anything about your precious pixies. Your double standards are sickening.

      • RoHa
        October 8, 2011, 12:34 am

        After all the pixies have suffered through the ages, it is your anti-pixism that is sickening.

        And as far as the fairies are concerned, it’s all their own fault.

      • Shmuel
        October 8, 2011, 2:55 am

        The real problem today is fairiphobia.

      • seafoid
        October 7, 2011, 4:54 am

        Those bloody pixies

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDt42Vs-teI

        poor Israel is in a state

      • Shmuel
        October 7, 2011, 5:08 am

        Those bloody pixies

        Damn right. I’ll bet RoHa thinks that this is just a coincidence.

      • Mooser
        October 7, 2011, 1:28 pm

        These Pixies?

      • seafoid
        October 7, 2011, 2:25 pm

        Israel will end up suffocated by a 10 million pound sludge from new york and new jersey

  16. seafoid
    October 6, 2011, 5:15 pm

    Guardian’s chief Zionist mouthpiece , the one who saw the positives in the election of Sharon FFS and who cheerlead Cast Lead is now horrified by settler violence.

    http://twitter.com/#!/j_freedland

    Important and alarming: West Bank settler “violence is epidemic & it’s only going to get worse.”

    Welcome to the party, Jonathan. Most of the guests are actually going home.

  17. yourstruly
    October 6, 2011, 6:05 pm

    hmm, a colonial government trying to hold back its settlers from expanding into new territority. wasn’t a similar scenario part of the buildup to america’s civil war? is history about to repeat itself? in this case should anti-zionists hope so? will palestinians declare their neutrality? and the u.s. of a., as it did during the spanish civil war, will it remain neutral in an israeli civil war?

  18. jimby
    October 6, 2011, 7:07 pm

    seems to me that it is going to be progressively difficult to manage the distinction between the army and the settlers. there are settler and orthodox units within the IDF who at some point will likely refuse to follow orders. will the IDF shoot dissident troops if attacked?

  19. RoHa
    October 6, 2011, 7:23 pm

    So it’s the settlers who want to push Israel into the sea?

  20. Chaos4700
    October 6, 2011, 7:56 pm

    If you think things are messy now, just wait until some of the IDF soldiers stage mutinies and join the settlers in attacking their comrades too.

    • American
      October 6, 2011, 10:48 pm

      That would certainly kick it up a knotch.

      • mig
        October 7, 2011, 12:48 am

        But that is to blame palestinians too….

  21. American
    October 6, 2011, 10:56 pm

    OT but thought I would ask.
    What is going on with occupy Wall Street being slammed as a anti semitic movement?
    Happened to catch some congressman on Fox ranting about how Occupy WS was anti semitic…no joke he went on and on about it..didn’t catch his name.
    It sounds like Occupy WS has some people scared and they are trying to discredit it because it’s becoming too popular around the country.
    Can’t figure why they using the anti semite smear unless it has something to do with the dem-repub election fight over who loves the Jews and Israel most.

    • Chaos4700
      October 7, 2011, 12:00 am

      Here’s what I don’t get… doesn’t binding criticism of Wall Street and equating it to anti-Semitism pretty much, you know, play into a nasty stereotype itself? As if attacking the movers and shakers on Wall Street mean you pretty much must be targeting Jews? That’s the message they’re getting across.

      I don’t entirely get it. Either the political/industrial/financial elite class is so used to defaulting to their kiss-kiss relationship with Israel that this is their default defense now, or organizations like the ADL and AIPAC have been so successful at influencing politics that Wall Street’s advocates are latching on like lampreys to a shark. Those are my two best guesses.

      I think this shows you how corrupt both Wall Street and Zionism both are, together, no matter how you slice it. The two make themselves inseparable, despite Zionist protestations and slurs.

      • Dan Crowther
        October 7, 2011, 8:41 am

        Chaos and American –

        TNR had a video of a guy arguing with a dude in a yarmulke the other day and the guy sans yarmulke referred to him as “Jew” – yea, not cool.

        The kid immediately said that he is Jewish – but thats all she wrote at that point. Of course, the kid looks like he take bong hits from an exhaust pipe…….

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3Y9CARUwio

        I think the real reason for the warnings of “anti-semitism” from the TNR’s of the world is that (from what i have seen here in boston) there are alot of “end aid to israel” and “stop apartheid in israel” signs among the occupants. The potential for these protests to be a mass BDS movement, not just against Israel, but against capitalist institutions in general has got to be scaring the shit out of people in the executive suites.

      • Chaos4700
        October 7, 2011, 9:44 am

        The old man in the yarmulke was shouting, “Get a job!” at the youth, even though the youth has a job. Nobody’s commenting on the fact that the old man started the exchange with his bigotry. And… the guy is Jewish. He wore a yarmulke out in public — are we really supposed to believe he does NOT want to be identified as Jewish in public?

        I think what Zionists should be more worried about, is what rank and file Americans see, when their friends are ending up homeless and unemployed for doing nothing wrong, and the response from the well-to-do man in the dress shirt and yarmulke is, “Get a job!” As of the rest of are just lazy and that’s supposed to be the problem.

      • Shingo
        October 7, 2011, 10:06 am

        The potential for these protests to be a mass BDS movement, not just against Israel, but against capitalist institutions in general has got to be scaring the shit out of people in the executive suites.

        You hit the nail on the head Dan, which is why the media and the Israeli lobby are trying so desperately to misreprensent the complaints and demands of the protesters.

        I read that marines and vets might be joining the marches – that will set the cat among the pidgeons won’t it?

      • Dan Crowther
        October 7, 2011, 10:43 am

        chaos,

        hahaha – good point(s). i think they should also worry about their blanket labeling of the protests as anti-semitic, cuz thats basically saying “jews run wall street” – and i REALLY dont think thats what they want out there as conventional wisdom.

      • Dan Crowther
        October 7, 2011, 10:53 am

        shingo,

        there is a mention of this dynamic in “Common Sense” where Paine talks about the “strong” taking orders and being subservient to “the weak” – he is of course referring to the kings of europe and elsewhere. But what really baffles Paine is the PHYSICAL dimension. That these strong, powerful men would bow down to a boy or a infirmed old man was ridiculous to him. If you look around at who calls the shots in our society and who does the dirty work, its the same thing. Our popular culture reinforces this – the smart are always small, skinny hipster types – and the big guys are always dumb and need to be lead around by the nose by the lil guy. Pinky and the Brain style.

        the more “big guys” (marines, vets etc) show up and support what is going on here in NY, Boston and elsewhere, they will not only bring their strength in a physical sense, but they will also bring the strength to say “you dont have to be afraid.” And that cuts to the foundation of the “security state” – the security state was made by small men, big men will need to lead the charge against it.

      • seafoid
        October 7, 2011, 11:14 am

        That would be magic. i think the 1%/99% meme is genius
        It all comes back to this

        58% of all income growth in the US between the 1976 and 2007 went to the top 1% of the population. The top 0.01% or 15000 households had 1.7% of all income in 1976 and 6.04% by 2007. By 2004 the top 1% of wealth holders in the US held 42% of all financial and real assets, the most unequal distribution since the 1920s. The top 20% held 93% of such assets

      • Mooser
        October 7, 2011, 1:31 pm

        “Get a job!”

        “Death to the Jews” I can take, in the spirit of friendly give-and-take, but that goes way beyond the pale. I get terrified just reading the words!

      • seafoid
        October 7, 2011, 1:37 pm

        American estimates from Brown University are that some $3.7 trillion will have been spent avenging the 9/11 deaths.

        http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/jul/25/us-foreign-policy-war

        Gen Stanley McChrystal, who commanded America and its Nato allies in 2009-10, said that even after a decade, the US still lacks the knowledge to bring the conflict to a successful end. WTF.

        http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/06/afghanistan-folly-expense

        The opening decade of the 21st century has been marked by two epic failures by the western powers that so recently claimed victory in the cold war; failures of both intellect and leadership. One is the inability to use the limitless resources of modern government to rescue the west’s economy from prolonged recession. The other is the use of an attack on America by a crazed Islamist criminal as an excuse for a retaliatory war embracing a wide swath of the Muslim world. The decade-long punishment of Afghanistan for harbouring Osama bin Laden has been an act of biblical retribution. The demand that it also abandons the habits of history and adopt democracy, capitalism and gender equality was imperial arrogance.

        What a f*cking joke And what a dud horse Israel is tied to. Israel is going to go down with US imperialism.

  22. RoHa
    October 6, 2011, 11:53 pm

    “some congressman on Fox ranting about how Occupy WS was anti semitic”

    Why would it be anti-Semitic? Is the congressman suggesting that Wall Street is run by a cabal of Jews who do not have America’s best interests at heart?

  23. mikeo
    October 7, 2011, 4:09 am

    I wonder, where are eee, hophmi, dbg and the rest?

    I thought they would have been straight here explaining what sort of “provocation” the soldiers must have instigated to cause this attack…

    It must be so confusing, no Palestinians to blame. Oh well, the next talking point will be “Hellenistic Jews”.

    It will go down well with right-wing Israelis, but let’s see how it flies in the rest of the world, especially the US.

    I have been saying this sort of thing was coming for some time. How will Netanyahu know which of the IDF and police he can rely on and which are with the settlers?

    BDS is not the biggest threat to Israel’s international image and legitimacy, this is. And the govt can’t do shit about it.

    All this stalling for time has just meant that the results of the coming settlement evictions will be so much worse than Netanyahu and his pals could possibly have imagined.

    Pogroms against Jew and Palestinian alike will occur, and the ugliness of what occupation has done to Israeli society will be revealed to the world

    • eee
      October 7, 2011, 10:16 am

      You really do not understand Israel. The settlers need the support of the Israeli public. They themselves will work hand in hand with the Israeli security forces to make sure that things do not get out of hand. They want the radicals stopped just like anybody else. For example, one of the arsonists of the mosque has already been arrested and more arrests will come.

      Israel has faced such problems before. It takes time, but these groups are identified and dealt with.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Underground

      • Cliff
        October 7, 2011, 10:36 am

        Total bullshit.

        Wikipedia is an irrelevant source of information on a contentious issue like this. CAMERA has already been proven to have hijacked articles and created articles for the sole purpose of hasbara.

        Like all your other worthless arguments, you can’t substantiate anything.

        The settlers are colonists stealing Palestinian land with the aide and protection of the IDF and your government.

      • DBG
        October 7, 2011, 12:42 pm

        Cliff what exactly are you arguing, that there was no Jewish underground? no plot to blow up the Dome of the Rock?

      • Cliff
        October 7, 2011, 2:38 pm

        Learn to read.

        I am arguing against the editorializing in I-P related articles at Wikipedia (see: CAMERA).

        eee’s assertion is that these groups are regularly condemned as if that means anything. As if there exists some social filter in Israeli society against these extremists.

      • Chaos4700
        October 7, 2011, 3:05 pm

        You keep claiming there was no Nakba. Have you found those nukes in Iraq yet, incidentally?

      • Bumblebye
        October 7, 2011, 10:51 am

        More Thickipedia.
        If eee quotes it, it’s discredited.

      • mikeo
        October 7, 2011, 11:10 am

        Eee, you are right, I don’t understand Israel.

        But I must say, actions speak louder than words…

      • mikeo
        October 7, 2011, 11:31 am

        Anyway, the settlers don’t need the support of the Israeli public – they have M16’s to enforce their will.

        They won’t work hand in hand with the security services – many of them ARE the security services.

        Except in your fantasy world, they don’t want the radicals stopped, they ARE the radicals.

        Eee, I hate to break this to you but the problem is not that the rest of the world doesn’t understand Israel well enough. The problem is that Israeli’s are so brainwashed with propaganda that they don’t understand the rest of the world.

        Time and world opinion is not on your side and Hasbara won’t fix it…

      • mikeo
        October 7, 2011, 11:34 am

        Relying on the Americans to dig you out of the hole you’ve dug for yourselves forever and ever has turned out to be a shitty plan….

      • Shingo
        October 7, 2011, 6:22 pm

        The settlers need the support of the Israeli public

        That’s odd. We keep gettign told that the public opose the settlements.

        The rality is that they do not need the support of the Israeli public anymore than Israel needs the support of the US public. They simply mneed a strong enough base to hold the balance of power.

      • Kathleen
        October 8, 2011, 11:32 am

        And the enormous amount of aide from American Jews who are supporting illegal settlement building. And the US aid to Israel that is not scrutinized by our congress. Israel should be required to cut off any percentage of US aid to Israel that is being used in illegal settlements. Israel should be required to report where every penny of US aid to Israel is used. The way the US requires of other countries that we give aid to.

        The money provided by American citizens to fund illegal settlements should be investigated by the US Treasury and deemed being in support of state sanctioned terrorism

  24. yourstruly
    October 7, 2011, 10:23 am

    is this the moment dreamers have been waiting for?
    the grand awakening
    no more of this is just the way it is, nothing one can do about it, so why try
    the world
    up for grabs

  25. mikeo
    October 7, 2011, 1:19 pm

    Ha, I only just bothered to look at your link and this is an extract of what it had to say:

    Their sentences were controversially commuted three times by then President Chaim Herzog and they were released after serving less than seven years. On their 1990 release the three were hailed as “heroes” by leaders of the Gush Emunim movement.[1] The Jewish Underground caused a rift in Gush Emunim. The existence of a violent underground had, until the mass arrests, been dismissed by most Gush Emunim members as falsehood circulated by Peace Now to discredit the movement.

    And things are MUCH worse now.

    Is that honestly the best you can do?
    Yeah they really “dealt” with them

  26. mikeo
    October 9, 2011, 3:49 am

    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/idf-steps-up-efforts-to-keep-west-bank-outposts-raids-under-wraps-1.388854

    See? What did I say? The Israeli state forces are thoroughly infiltrated and they have no idea who they can trust.

    Civil war is coming…

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