Erdogan dis’d Obama to his face– US is Israel’s ‘lawyer’

Israel/Palestine
on 17 Comments

Obama’s statecraft has elevated two men, Netanyahu and Erdogan. This is a couple weeks after Erdogan said smartly that Israel is the west’s spoiled child, and about ten years after Aaron David Miller said we acted as Israel’s lawyer at Camp David. Is our complete collapse ever a story in the western press? Turkish outlet Hurriyet:

The Turkish foreign minister said Obama had phoned [Turkish PM] Erdoğan 11 times during the last nine months and a brief encounter took place during one of their conversations, when Obama complained about Turkey’s role in Iran’s uranium swap deal, asking why Erdoğan protected Iran.

Erdoğan denied Obama’s claims, [FM Ahmet] Davutoğlu said, and responded, “I do not protect Iran, but you [the United States] act as Israel’s lawyer.”

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17 Responses

  1. Kathleen
    October 17, 2011, 10:08 am

    Recommend watching and listening to all of Charlie Rose’s interviews with Erdogan

  2. pabelmont
    October 17, 2011, 10:38 am

    Even if Erdogan might be a “Messiah”, he will not get his work done in my lifetime. The land, the water, sometimes hope, is being taken continuously and at an increasing pace. If anyone is going to do something they better do ti soon.

    • Walid
      October 17, 2011, 12:11 pm

      Pabelmont, there’s more show business than actual conflict between Turkey and Israel. The messiah image being portrayed is from the Turks’ murky mission to create a “new economic Ottoman Empire”, as David-Oglu called it and Erdogan is its front man with his “I hate Israel” road show. The Davos walk-out was a PR stunt, as was the required apology for the Mavi Marmara that got the Kurds killed. You’ll remember the brouhaha about his planned visit to Gaza this summer that did not materialize. Now he wants to take in some some of the 40 Palestinians about to be expelled by Israel.

      A year ago it was all sugar and spice between Turkey, Syria and Iran with the opening of borders to encourage commerce and tourism between the 3 countries. This year, Erdogan did a 180 turn on Syria and is threatening it with a military invasion if it doesn’t stop bashing its citizens. Before any Syrian refugees started streaming across the border into Turkey, Erdogan had erected a tent city for 5000 to house them, which is somewhat fishy. Now he is making deals with Egypt’s rulers and the new ones in Libya and Tunisia. With Turkey’s elections over, it’s hard to see if all of what Erdogan’s team is doing is for the benefit of the Turkish Brothers or some other parties with interests in the area but for whatever reason, there is surely nothing benevolent about it. There is no Santa Claus.

      • American
        October 17, 2011, 1:03 pm

        “The messiah image being portrayed is from the Turks’ murky mission to create a “new economic Ottoman Empire”, ”

        I don’t see it that way at all…..from all available evidence Turkey is trying to protect it’s own interest, as it should, and to do that it has to also have something to say about the regional interest and tensions. If indeed Turkey is trying to assume more of a authority role in it’s region, then more power to them…they would certainly be more capable of handling regional tensions and more stabalizing for the ME then ISR’merica authority.

      • Walid
        October 17, 2011, 3:07 pm

        “I don’t see it that way at all…..from all available evidence Turkey is trying to protect it’s own interest, as it should, and to do that it has to also have something to say about the regional interest and tensions.”

        American, I don’t have any problems with that, and all the power to the Turks, as you said. I become concerned when it gets involved in “regime-changes” by fomenting strife within a neighbouring country as it did in Libya and as it’s now doing in Syria, eventhough I don’t have that much sympathy for either of them.

        There’s a massive ongoing US campaign in the region that is pitting the Sunna of Saudi Arabia, the Gulf states, the Islamic fundies of Tunisia, Egypt, Libya and Yemen against the Shia concentrations in Iraq, Lebanon, Bahrain, and Iran while Turkey has joined the Sunni side.

        Turkey’s admission into heaven is now being sponsored simply because Erdogan has been throwing little stones at Israel’s glass house and I’m saying that there is more to Erdogan’s instant hate and Israel is playing along by its refusal to apologize.

      • Keith
        October 17, 2011, 5:25 pm

        WALID- “Pabelmont, there’s more show business than actual conflict between Turkey and Israel.”

        Walid, I think you have a good point. Sometimes we unrealistically project our hopes onto states and statesmen, imagining some morally righteous good guy who will ride to our rescue. Nations and politicians are rarely, if ever, driven by moral imperatives. Rather they pursue coldly calculated strategies to benefit their dominant elites. While Turkey does appear to be pursuing a somewhat different course under Erdogan, it is unwise to get carried away with wishful thinking. A long history of collaboration exists between the US, Turkey and Israel which will not disappear overnight. A recent example can be found in an article on drone warfare at CounterPunch.

        “The Air Force is now negotiating with Turkey to relocate some of the Predator drones still operating in Iraq to the giant air base at Incirlik next year.”
        http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/10/17/americas-secret-empire-of-drone-bases/

      • AhVee
        October 17, 2011, 1:13 pm

        ” Before any Syrian refugees started streaming across the border into Turkey, Erdogan had erected a tent city for 5000 to house them, which is somewhat fishy. ”

        Consider also that Turkish police prevents non profits and journalists from seeing the refugees, only select visits are permitted. They don’t have refugee status, either. In an interesting interview Turkish political scientist Şenay Özden suspects it might be Turkey’s way to keep itself from being crossed out from the Syrian regime’s good book quite yet.

        Turkey did turn around on Al-Assad, I call it a pulling a USA, I’m no longer surprised that governments tolerate dictatorships until they come crashing down, at which point they pretend to always have been “for the people”. It’s a political particularity that seems to repeat itself ad infinitum, no longer catches my interest much.

    • American
      October 17, 2011, 1:21 pm

      “better do it soon”

      Well here ‘s my new project since my oil embargo chant hasn’t worked.

      GENOCIDE! GENOCIDE! STOP THE ISRAELI GENOCIDE OF PALESTINE.

      The anty needs to be upped for Israel and the Israel Firsters.
      Genocide needs to be the rallying cry against Israel for the public. Genocide has more punch than Apartheid. and we don’t have to fight over definitions. It’s already been defined legally…and what’s more we can prove Israel is guilty of genocide.
      So if the Israelis want to challenge anyone on the accusation or sue anyone for deflamation…let them go to court and try it….heh,heh.
      In fact we should make Genocide so loud and overwhelming in the public sphere the Israelis are forced into a legal venue to try and deny it.

      http://www.preventgenocide.org/genocide/elements.htm

      Crime:
      Genocide by deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring
      about physical destruction.

      1. The perpetrator inflicted certain conditions of life upon one or more
      persons.
      Note: The term “conditions of life” may include, but is not necessarily
      restricted to, deliberate deprivation of resources indispensable for
      survival, such as food or medical services, or systematic expulsion from
      homes.
      2. The conditions of life were calculated to bring about the physical
      destruction of that group, in whole or in part.
      3. The perpetrator intended to destroy, in whole or in part, that national,
      ethnical, racial or religious group, as such.
      4. The conduct took place in the context of a manifest pattern of similar
      conduct directed against that group or was conduct that could itself effect
      such destruction.
      Note: The term “in the context of” would include the initial acts in an
      emerging pattern; – The term “manifest” is an objective qualification .

      Final draft text of the Elements of Crimes, agreed upon by the ICC.

  3. Dan Crowther
    October 17, 2011, 10:59 am

    Somewhere below me on this thread, our resident hasbaraists are going to say some of the following things:

    1.Erdogan is stoking anti-western sentiment and wants to re-institute the Ottoman Empire
    2. Erdogan’s country oversees the “brutal” occupation of Cypress
    3. Turkey slaughtered Armenians 100 years ago and therefore has no grounds to criticize Israel
    4. The Gaza Flotilla was an act of state sponsored Terrorism against Israel
    5. He is a member of Hezbollah, Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood – is a rabid anti-semite and wants to drive jews into the sea
    6. He does not “humanize the other” and fails to recognize that peace comes from understanding, co-operation and acceptance of all – especially zionists who continue to colonize Palestine on behalf of people from the Hudson Valley.

    Rinse and repeat.

    • annie
      October 17, 2011, 2:33 pm

      speaking of hasbarists this reminds me of a leaked bicom (UK israel lobby) email from biocom’s ex MP CEO Lorna Fitzsimons. the recipient of the email has been blocked out. the date is september 12th of this year.

      Please find the correct analysis attached. I thought you would be interested to hear of BICOM’s response to….

      Events over the weekend

      * Over the weekend, BICOM’s rapid response to the unfolding events in Egypt included distributing our analysis on Egyptian/Israeli relations to key UKMedia contacts, generated extremely favourable responses. Attached here isthe link to today’s analysis on this subject. BICOM Analysis: Israel-Turkeyrelations after the Palmer Report http://www.bicom.org.uk/context/research-and-analysis/latest-bicom-analysis/bicom-analysis–israel-turkey-relations-after-the-palmer-report which details the events that took place, their aftermath and associated implications. In particular, the briefing examines the explanations for hostilities between Israel and Egypt, and the responses to the events inIsrael, Egypt and internationally.

      * Throughout the weekend, BICOM staff were in contact with a whole host of BBC and SKY news desks and journalists, ensuring that the most objectively favourable line was taken, and offering talking heads, relevant to the stories unfolding. BICOM’s Senior Analyst Dr. Noam Leshem, briefed the BBC World News Editorial Board on Saturday afternoon regarding the fall-out from the Israel Egyptian Embassy siege. After contact with the BICOM Media Team,SKY News changed their narrative in explaining the prior events in the regionwhich lead up to this weekend, eventually acknowledging that both Egyptians AND Israelis were killed in Sinai a fortnight ago. This Week * BICOM has one of BBC News’ key anchors on a bespoke delegation.

      and here is that BICOM ANALYSIS: ISRAEL-TURKEY RELATIONS AFTER THE PALMER REPORT

      so, read the report and figure out how the news orgs have fallen in line behind the narrative set out in the report and assume this is probably similar to an aipac report.

      • Dan Crowther
        October 17, 2011, 2:44 pm

        Wow – Thanks Annie!

        This pretty much says it all:

        Turkey has also changed internally. At the end of July, the most senior officers in the Turkish armed forces resigned en masse after a series of disputes with the ruling AKP. In the past, the military played a much more central role as the guardian of Turkey’s secular constitution. It was also an important institution in the promotion of military ties and strategic cooperation with Israel. Now the military is a far weaker institution, and cannot balance the power of the AKP.

        Translation: We used to be able to buy of the military junta running the country, but now they seem hell bent on this pesky thing called “democracy” – damn them.

      • annie
        October 17, 2011, 3:00 pm

        sure dan ;)

        yes, we used to have very close connections to the military there. in fact i recall the attache/ex general in charge or our liason was also some bigwig at lockheed as i recall. i would have to do some research about it but i recall during the iraq war delving into it a tad. also, sibel edmonds has a thing or two to say about this military co-mingling with the ex insiders there back in the day.

      • lysias
        October 17, 2011, 3:06 pm

        As the documentary movie COUP / Darbe – A Documentary History of the Turkish Military Interventions makes clear, at least two of those military coups in postwar Turkey were CIA-inspired, including the most recent one in 1980.

  4. AhVee
    October 17, 2011, 1:04 pm

    “Erdoğan denied Obama’s claims, [FM Ahmet] Davutoğlu said, and responded, “I do not protect Iran, but you [the United States] act as Israel’s lawyer.”

    True words. Turkey protecting Iran? Don’t think they’d have much of a reason to, especially after Khamenei gave the Turkish government a pasting. The two countries generally fit the description of rivals in the region more than that of friends who share common interests and would protect each other. Far as I recall Iran has recently criticised Turkey’s opposition to the crackdown on Syrian protesters, criticised Turkey for working with the NATO, and criticised them for progressing with secularisation. Erdoğan’d be more than just a bit silly to stand on Iran’s side now of all times, or even so much as settle for arbitration. That would be a 180 degree turn from pandering to Europe’s desires and working out the Kurdish problem to Europe’s satisfaction.

    • teta mother me
      October 17, 2011, 2:21 pm

      AhVee, Erdogan DID stick his neck out to press forward a nuclear deal to which Iran agreed, but Hillary Clinton chopped off Turkey’s neck.

      There is a great deal of trade and commercial exchange carried on between Iran and Turkey; Ankara serves as a major transit point for travel/tourism to Iran, and pious Muslims make pilgrimage to each the other country’s shrines. Iran & Turkey are undoubtedly rivals just as Doris K Goodwin wrote of a ‘team of rivals.’ Competition brings out the best in all.

      And why would you write, “Erdoğan’d be more than just a bit silly to stand on Iran’s side now of all times?” The silliness in the air is the used-car salesman plot that the entire world knows is bogus. Erdoğan would be beyond silly if he stood on the side of that crockplot to cook up war in his neighborhood.

      • AhVee
        October 17, 2011, 3:20 pm

        “Erdoğan would be beyond silly if he stood on the side of that crockplot to cook up war in his neighborhood.”

        Exactly. Forgive me if this is so obvious that mentioning it annoyed you to the extent of motivating you to point it out to me, or if my wording came off as smug, it wasn’t intended to provoke. I’m sorry if it upset you, which it obviously did for you to react so harshly.
        I agree with what you wrote.

  5. DICKERSON3870
    October 17, 2011, 11:44 pm

    RE: “Is our complete collapse ever a story in the western
    press?” ~ Weiss

    SEE: Got Class Warfare? Occupy Wall Street Now!, By Henry A. Giroux, Truthout, 10/06/11

    (excerpts)…Meanwhile, a supine and hypertrophied mass media feed the general populace a toxic mix of propagandistic hate, racism, immigrant baiting and labor bashing. The power of the rich and their disdain for vulnerability are strengthened by these emotive discourses, along with the support of a gun culture and unthinking consumption of hyper-violence saturating various screen cultures. Scorn for public servants feeds an authoritarian populism and hijacks democratic language, ideals and social relations.
    The dominant media are no longer the mouthpiece of the moral majority and the gatekeeper of the status quo – they are now firmly on the side of the ultra wealthy and the mega corporations. How else to explain the media’s contempt for reason and critical inquiry as they turn news into entertainment and the call for balance into a form of anti-intellectual drivel? At best, the dominant media attempt to neutralize the issue of class inequality, making it largely invisible. At worst, they serve as active accomplices in promoting class warfare through their embrace of neoliberal values and refusal to engage any serious issues that might reveal the terrible human and social costs of the class warfare now being waged by the rich…

    SOURCE – http://www.truth-out.org/got-class-warfare-occupy-wall-street-now/1317760461

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