Jewish terrorists strike again, this time in the Galilee

on 102 Comments

Another day, another act of extreme “price tag” violence.  It’s all getting to be terrifyingly, horrifyingly routine.

Early this morning, suspected Jewish extremists — or heck, let’s just call them what they are, suspected Jewish terrorists — set a mosque on fire on fire in Tuba Zangaria, a Bedouin village in the northern Galilee. The blaze caused “serious damage” to the mosque, police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld told  The New York Times, and destroyed copies of the Koran as well as walls and rugs. The arsonists also took the time to spray-paint a message in Hebrew on the outside walls of the mosque: the words  “Price Tag,” “Revenge” and “Palmer.” “Palmer,” it is believed, is a reference to Asher Palmer, a settler from Hebron who was killed last week in a car crash that Israeli police have labeled a terrorist attack — though what the people of a small Bedouin village in northern Israeli have to do with the death of an Israeli settler near Kiryat Arba remains utterly perplexing.

This was the third arson attack on a mosque in the last month, but the first such attack committed inside Israel (the other two mosque-burnings have taken place in the West Bank). It is part of a growing trend of right-wing Jewish attacks on Palestinians, Palestinian property, and Jewish leftists that has grown so frequent and so organized that even the Shin Bet has begun, rather stunningly, to describe the attacks as “terrorist” incidents. According to a September 13th Haaretz article published titled “Shin Bet: Israel’s extreme rightists organizing into terror groups”:

Extreme right-wing Jewish activists in the West Bank have moved from spontaneous acts against Arabs – following the demolition of Jewish homes by Israeli authorities, or terror attacks against Jews – to organized planning that includes use of a database of potential targets, according to new analysis by the Shin Bet security service.

The small groups of Jewish extremists are difficult to infiltrate and carry out surveillance on Arab villages and collect information about access points and escape routes in the villages. They are also collecting information about left-wing Israeli activists.

The fruits of this all this busy terrorist organizing have been widespread, vicious, and alarming, and have included everything from assaulting and brutalizing Palestinians to torching cars in Arab villages, uprooting and burning olive orchards, setting fire to mosques, attacking an Israeli military base in the West Bank, and vandalizing the property of well-known peace activists. And yet, much of it goes unreported or unremarked upon, gets treated as non-events by Israel’s media, security services, politicians, and public. “We’ve become used to it,” wrote Yossi Gurvitz in a disturbing article this past June in +972 titled “Settler ‘price tag’ pogroms against Palestinians go under the radar.” “Pogroms are a daily event – nothing to write home about, as long as they are kept within bounds. It’s background noise. A dog bites a man. Nothing to see here, move along.”

For whatever reasons, this morning’s attack on the Tuba Zangaria mosque did manage to break through the consensus of silence, enough at least to wrench statements out of both Benjamin Netanyahu and Shimon Peres. Peres later jogged up north with Israel’s two chief rabbis to survey the damage and express solidarity with Tuba Zangaira’s residents (and, perhaps, try to quell their protests). The only problem is that statements of outrage have only so much meaning when every other act, intention, and ambition of your administration is dedicated to displacing and disempowering the wounded population. They’re almost as absurd as, say, condemning the atrocities at Abu Ghraib when you and your advisers have given the green light to waterboarding, Guantanomo, and Shock-and-Awe.

Actually, come to think of it, George W. Bush didn’t condemn the atrocities at Abu Ghraib, not really, not initially. As the ever-brilliant Susan Sontag observed, he merely expressed shock and disgust at the photographs, “as if the fault or horror lay in the images, not in what they depict.” And sure enough, Netanyahu harped on the representation of the crime as well: “The images are shocking and have no place in the State of Israel,” he said (emphasis added).

Which means: expect more Price Tag attacks.

About Lizzy Ratner

Lizzy Ratner is a journalist in New York City. She is a co-editor with Adam Horowitz and Philip Weiss of The Goldstone Report: The Legacy of the Landmark Investigation of the Gaza Conflict.

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102 Responses

  1. Seham
    October 3, 2011, 8:04 pm

    I applaud Lizzy for using the same language that *they* use. If a Palestinian so much as sneezes in the direction of an Israeli Jew, it is referred to as terrorism and the term “price-tag” doesn’t come close to describing the terror that settlers routinely engage in. Any unsuspecting American perusing headlines wouldn’t really grasp the reality of Israeli terrorism or that such a thing even exists if they were relying on watered down headlines from the mainstream media.

    • Chaos4700
      October 3, 2011, 8:25 pm

      Car bombs, davidkas, setting explosives in civilian buildings… these are all things Zionists were doing in Palestine before Palestinians were doing it in Israel. Israel is the Terrorist State. Just ask Norway, Dubai and at least a dozen other countries across the world (I’d say ask the US about it too, but apparently Israeli terrorism is legal and state-sanctioned here.)

  2. john h
    October 3, 2011, 8:24 pm

    We can welcome the statements in the US in reaction:

    In a statement released in wake of the mosque attack, national director of the Anti-Defamation League Abraham H. Foxman said on Monday that his group joined “the leadership and people of the State of Israel in expressing shock and outrage at this heinous attack.”

    “Israeli society must make clear that violence is never acceptable, whatever the grievance, whatever the issue, and must continue to reinforce this core value of Israeli society,” the ADL chief said.

    In another statement by the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America, the group’s president Simcha Katz and vice president Rabbi Steven Weil condemned “the reported acts of vandalism, in which Israelis are alleged to have entered a mosque and set fire to it, destroyed holy objects and wrote hateful graffiti messages on the walls. There is no justification for such actions. Jews should know very well that such actions are beyond the pale.”

    However, what Lizzy said of Israeli authorities is equally applicable here:

    “The only problem is that statements of outrage have only so much meaning when every other act, intention, and ambition of your administration is dedicated to displacing and disempowering the wounded population.”

    • seafoid
      October 4, 2011, 2:40 am

      “Israeli society must make clear that violence is never acceptable, whatever the grievance, whatever the issue, and must continue to reinforce this core value of Israeli society,” the ADL chief said.

      Mr. Moyers,

      In less than a thousand words, you managed to fit into your January 9 commentary: (1) moral equivalency between Hamas, a radical Islamic terrorist group whose anti-Semitic charter cites the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East and perhaps America’s greatest ally in the world; (2) historical revisionism, asserting that Canaanites were Arabs; (3) anti-Semitism, declaring that Jews are “genetically coded” for violence; (4) ignorance of the terrorist threat against Israel, claiming that checkpoints, the security fence, and the Gaza operation are tactics of humiliation rather than counter-terrorism; and (5) promotion of an individual, the Norwegian doctor in Gaza, who has publicly expressed support for the September 11 attacks.

      I have seen and read serious critiques of Israel’s military campaign in Gaza, and I have disagreed with many of them. Your commentary, however, is different, consisting mostly of intellectually and morally faulty claims that do a great disservice to the PBS audience. It invites not disagreement, but rebuke.

      On one point you are correct – “America has officially chosen sides.” And rightly so. Fortunately for our nation, very few of our citizens engage in the same moral equivalency, racism, historical revisionism, and indifference to terrorism as you. If the reverse held, it would not be a country that any decent person would want to live in.


      Abraham H. Foxman
      National Director
      Anti-Defamation League

      In response, Bill Moyers sent Mr. Foxman the following message:

      Dear Mr. Foxman:

      You made several errors in your letter to me of January 13 and I am writing to correct them.

      First, to call someone a racist for lamenting the slaughter of civilians by the Israeli military offensive in Gaza is a slur unworthy of the tragedy unfolding there. Your resort to such a tactic is reprehensible.

      Earlier this week it was widely reported that the International Red Cross “was so outraged it broke its usual silence over an attack in which the Israeli army herded a Palestinian family into a building and then shelled it, killing 30 people and leaving the surviving children clinging to the bodies of their dead mothers. The army prevented rescuers from reaching the survivors for four days.”

      When American troops committed a similar atrocity in Vietnam, it was called My Lai and Lt. Calley went to prison for it. As the publisher of a large newspaper at the time, I instructed our editorial staff to cover the atrocity fully because Americans should know what our military was doing in our name and with our funding. To say “my country right or wrong” is like saying “my mother drunk or sober.” Patriots owe their country more than that, whether their government and their taxes are supporting atrocities in Vietnam, Iraq, or, in this case, Gaza.

      Contrary to your claim, I made no reference whatsoever to “moral equivalency” between Hamas and Israel. That is an old canard often resorted to by propagandists trying to divert attention from facts on the ground, and, it, too, is unworthy of the slaughter in Gaza. Contrary to imputing “moral equivalency” between Hamas and Israel, I said that “Hamas would like to see every Jew in Israel dead.” I said that “a radical stream of Islam now seeks to eliminate Israel from the face of the earth.” And I described the new spate of anti-Semitism across the continent of Europe. I am curious as to why you ignored remarks which clearly counter the notion of “moral equivalency.”

      And although I specifically referred to “the rockets from Hamas” falling on Israel and said that “every nation has the right to defend itself, and Israel is no exception,” you nonetheless accuse me of “ignorance of the terrorist threat against Israel.” Once again, you are quite selective in your reading of my essay.

      Your claim that “the checkpoints, the security fence and the Gaza operation” [I used the more accurate “onslaught”] are not humiliating of the Palestinians is lamentable. I did not claim that these were, as you write, “tactics of humiliation rather [emphasis mine] than counter-terrorism,” but perhaps it is overly simplistic to think they are one and not the other, when they are both. Also lamentable is your description of my “promotion” of the Norwegian doctor in Gaza when in fact I was simply quoting what he told CBS News: “It’s like Dante’s Inferno. They are bombing one and a half million people in a cage.” The whole world has been able to see for itself what he was talking about, and as one major news organization after another has been reporting, is reeling from the sight.

      And, to your claim that I was “declaring Jews are ‘genetically coded’ for violence,” you are mistaken. My comment – obviously not sufficiently precise – was not directed at a specific people but to the fact that the human race has violence in its DNA, as the biblical stories so strongly affirm. I also had in mind the relationship between all the descendents of Abraham who love the same biblical land and come to such grief over it.

      From my days in President Johnson’s White House forward, I have defended Israel’s right to defend itself, and still do. But sometimes an honest critic is a government’s best friend, and I am appalled by Israel’s devastation of innocent civilians in this battle, all the more so because, as I said in my column, it is exactly what Hamas wanted to happen. To be so indifferent to that suffering is, sadly, to be as blind in Gaza as Samson.


      Bill Moyers

      • Whizdom
        October 4, 2011, 5:23 am

        Wow, I never saw that. What a powerful response.

      • seafoid
        October 4, 2011, 5:10 pm

        Foxman is a cheap bigot and it comes out very clearly when Myers skewers him.

        It reminds me of Finkelstein at Waterloo. If you had any heart you’d be crying for the Palestinians.

  3. radii
    October 3, 2011, 8:38 pm

    the MONSTER is now totally unleashed, on-the-loose, out for blood, emboldened by its master (the state and IDF), and this is just the beginning … the right-wing theo-fascists who now run israel (at least in a de facto sense) are bringing the pain, violence, thuggery, racism, all of it … the last few people in the world who had any doubts about what kind of regime the gov’t of israel has become and what kind of people now rule there can no longer claim ignorance or be apologists for these criminals

  4. DBG
    October 3, 2011, 9:09 pm

    Pretty horrible stuff, my thoughts are with the residents of Tuba Zangaria today. Israel’s reaction to this atrocity will say be important for many reasons. If they don’t reign in on those who perpetrated this and put an end to these disgusting actions, the settlers will only become more brazen.

    I hope they do the right thing here, a lot of Jews in the diaspora are watching this carefully, Israel’s actions will dictate their support.

    • Chaos4700
      October 3, 2011, 9:51 pm

      Ahem… you know, just in case you missed that.

    • eGuard
      October 3, 2011, 10:03 pm

      You talk like this is the first Zionist terror act.

    • anonymouscomments
      October 3, 2011, 11:44 pm

      I appreciate your words, sincerely. But I wonder, if the diaspora is so sensitive, where were they during the previous mosque burnings in the OPT. Where were they as ~10% of Israel’s population was placed on occupied land? Where were they during the last decade, with many murders of unarmed civilians adding up year by year? They seem to be a very ignorant and selectively “outraged” lot.

      Or does the OPT not count, nor the Arabs in it?

      Don’t raise your voice and concern now, about one event, just to feel moral and righteous. Unless I see comments based on human rights, and sincere outrage, at all the insanity, you are as guilty as the next passively complicit stoodge. But maybe you changed? Will not hold my breath. And I expect you’ll feign transformation after the next round of ethnic violence and forcible expulsions, and cite blog postings to show how you “cared” and “resisted” with empty infrequent words…. adjacent to excuses and rationalizations and utter inaction.

      • thankgodimatheist
        October 4, 2011, 6:20 am

        I second that. This is no isolated “incident” but every bit a part in a pattern. The judaisation of the occupied territories is now spearheaded by thugs and gangsters protected , aided and funded by every instance in the colonial enterprise that is the Israeli state. One cannot be outraged about this more than about thousands of similar acts, visible and invisible. This is what Israel is all about, folks.

      • seafoid
        October 4, 2011, 10:21 am

        “is now spearheaded by thugs”

        Wrong tense. Zionism is thuggery.

    • justicewillprevail
      October 4, 2011, 5:19 am

      Is is just this incident, which has had publicity, or are you repelled by the innumerable atrocities which take place every day, committed by the settlers and the idf alike? In other words the routine policies of the administration

      • DBG
        October 4, 2011, 9:42 am

        I am pretty sick of it all JWP.

      • eee
        October 4, 2011, 10:09 am


        Let me speak frankly to you.
        You write:
        “a lot of Jews in the diaspora are watching this carefully, Israel’s actions will dictate their support”

        If your support of Israel and your fellow Jews there is conditional, you can shove it. If you do not believe that most Jews in Israel are just like you, trying to muddle through in a very difficult situation then shove it. We are not performing monkeys for the diaspora Jews to decide if they support or not. We in Israel accept any Jew from the diaspora, we do not give them “tests”. You are more than welcome to help us change the situation for the better, but you are not welcome to sit on your high chair and give us “tests”. The average Jew in Israel is no different than the average Jew in the diaspora. We are just in different situations.

      • seafoid
        October 4, 2011, 10:22 am

        What did you think of Cast Lead, DBG ?

      • DBG
        October 4, 2011, 10:55 am

        eee, I have spent the last 20 years(I started young) of my life being extremely critical of Palestinian terrorism, I can’t with a straight face not denounce these actions because they were perpetrated by Jews.

        I understand the situation Jews are in in Israel, that being said you can’t act like crazed lunatics. This pricetag nonsense along with the settlements is destroying any good will the international community has towards Israel.

        It isn’t fair, but Israel IS held to a different standard throughout the world. No one cares that the same things are happening to the Christians and Jews throughout the Muslim world. The rules suck, but it is the reality of the situation in the ME.

      • DBG
        October 4, 2011, 11:09 am

        caste lead was a military operation to stop rocket fire from Gaza. People died, children died, mistakes were made, that is war. completely different than what these Jewish terrorists are doing in the WB and now the Galilee.

        Sense we are asking irrelevant questions.

        What do you think of the 40K dead in Libya? 4K dead in Syria? how about the pogroms and ethnic cleansing of Christians in Egypt, Indonesia? how about the death sentence for the Christian pastor in Iran? or the death threats for the Jewish guy trying to re-open the Synagogue in Tripoli?

      • justicewillprevail
        October 4, 2011, 11:28 am

        oooh, listen to the little tough guy, with his unmitigated support for the Israeli Klan. Israel is never wrong, even when it condones murder, torching buildings and kidnappings – got that? If you don’t like it, you’re out of the gang.

      • Cliff
        October 4, 2011, 11:43 am

        DBG, you are delusional.

        Ask people who support the Palestinians what they think of Syria, or Egypt or Darfur, or any other conflict you want people to occupy themselves with (and IGNORE Israel).

        It has nothing to do w/ these supposed “rules.”

        You don’t want people in the West thinking about your racist apartheid State.

      • eee
        October 4, 2011, 11:58 am


        I feel about those thugs the same as you. Their acts are despicable. Peres visited the site accompanied by Israel’s chief rabbis and denounced the act in the harshest way possible.

        My point is this. When you write:”you can’t act like crazed lunatics”, who is the “you” referencing? You do understand that there are probably less than 100 people out of 6 million Jews responsible for or contemplating such acts? You do understand that the Shabak is trying to apprehend them?

        If you think you can handle this “price tag” nonsense better than us, please show us how. Preaching from afar does not cut it. I mean, you have every right to criticize, but since your criticism is not constructive or realistic, it is not helpful.

        The moment you state that your support for the Jewish community in Israel is dependent on how Israel acts, you lose me big time. Do you want me to judge you based on how the US government does? I care about the Jewish community in the US unconditionally, and you should do the same about the Jewish community in Israel.

        You can be against Netanyahu as much as you want. Heck, more than half of Israelis are. But if what you think of our government influences your solidarity with fellow Jews, than we really do not want your support.

      • annie
        October 4, 2011, 12:10 pm

        100 people? is this your hunch?

      • eee
        October 4, 2011, 12:11 pm


        DBG is simply asking if you apply the same standards to Israel as you apply to other countries. And your answer was “no”.

      • eee
        October 4, 2011, 12:13 pm


        My hunch is much less than 100 people. Talking radically is very different than acting radically. Many people in the Muslim world support Bin Laden’s views. Very, very few would translate that to terrorism.

      • DBG
        October 4, 2011, 12:18 pm

        EEE, I care about the Jewish community in Israel unconditionally also and the nation as a whole. But not everyone does, Israel is not invisible and public opinion is quite important.

      • eee
        October 4, 2011, 12:40 pm


        I feel your frustration. But you have to understand that there are radical Jews, some of them even imported from the US (like Kahana). We will find them and apprehend them, but it takes time. We dealt with these kinds of thugs before:

        As for public opinion, yes it matters, but much less than you think. For 16 years there was a UN resolution stating that Zionism is a form of racism:

        So? What could be worse than that? In the broader context of things, it mattered very little. You cannot change course or plan your strategy based on “public opinion”. You have to keep eye on the broader vision.

      • annie
        October 4, 2011, 12:44 pm

        Talking radically is very different than acting radically.

        what the purpose would be in sending hundreds of people to do a job 5 can do? i don’t think asking ourselves how many would contemplate doing such acts is necessarily the framework in which to address this. it is more telling to ask how many support these actions or how many would contemplate it if recruited to act by their rabbis or some authority. remember the mosque burning in the WB village of Yasuf ?

        US tax dollars fund rabbi who sanctioned killing gentile babies and incited torching of Yasuf mosque

        The Od Yosef Hai yeshiva in Yitzhar is a notable example. Its head, Rabbi Yitzhak Ginzburg, is the author of Baruch Hagever, an ode to Cave of Patriarchs murderer Baruch Goldstein. In early November the yeshiva’s dean, Rabbi Yosef Elitzur, published the “Handbook for the Killing of Gentiles.” On December 4 he published an article with specific instructions for terror activities in response to the “settlement freeze.”

        support for this is not a hundred people. it’s widespread. if it were only hundred people law enforcement would have acted seriously on this starting a couple years ago.

        In its report “A Semblance of Law,” Yesh Din describes in detail the systematic lack of law enforcement on violent settlers. One of its major recommendations is that the West Bank Police actually investigate attacks and that minimal resources be allocated for this purpose. Until that happens, “warning talks” and hand-wringing will have to fill the gap.

        plus this consciousness has permeated the idf. i do not understand what your intent is to minimize these events by claiming they represent a 100 people. i have more links and evidence if you want to read it. i recall posting about rabbi wolpe threatening a call for insurrection amoungst the troops last spring in fact it was covered heavily in the hebrew press and the peace now director filed incitement charges againt him and the settlers had a big rally in from of the defense ministry (or some place like that) where hundreds attended.

        so no i think you are very wrong.

      • MarkF
        October 4, 2011, 1:15 pm

        ” We are not performing monkeys for the diaspora Jews to decide if they support or not.”

        Right eee, because that’s what is demanded of us American Jews, perform like monkeys, earn the money, then send the money over. Unconditionally.

        The differences couldn’t be greater. It’s a one-way street. The average Jew in America is asked to buy Israeli bonds. Is the average Israeli asked to buy U.S. bonds? The average Jew in America is asked to sacrifice and support Israel through it’s time of crisis. Now that America is in crisis, is the average Israeli Jew asked to sacrifice for us after receiving this support for all these years?

        And of course, how ironic that you decide to slap a pretty fervent supporter in the face. How telling is David’s response but to gently kiss your rump, lest he upset an Israeli.

        We’re starting to catch on. Israeli comtempt of American Jews can only be masked for so long. and if we question ANYTHING that’s done in our name, you all must remind us to shut up and keep doing our performing monkey routine.

      • Larry
        October 4, 2011, 1:26 pm

        Yes – held to a different standard – No consequences for their murderous actions…

      • eee
        October 4, 2011, 1:31 pm


        Well, you are very wrong. And what you are doing is exactly what you are not happy with anti-Islam bigots doing in the US. You are using anecdotal evidence to put a blemish on a huge population. For every Israeli rabbi saying stupid things, you can find 100 Muslim preachers saying horrible things. What does that prove exactly?

      • eee
        October 4, 2011, 1:42 pm


        Your distortion of my discussion with DBG is disgusting.
        On average, the Jews in the US are much richer than the Jews in Israel. Plus, US Jews do not have to spend 3 years in the Israeli army to defend Israel. It is natural that money would flow from the US to Israel and not vice versa. You can be sure that if the Jewish community in the US was in need of funds, the Jewish community in Israel would step up to the plate.

        By the way, no one is forcing American Jews to help Israel. They do it of their own accord out of a sense of duty to the Jewish community and not as a means for getting something back.

        As for questioning what the Israeli government does, who is stopping you or any other Jew? You can even become an Israeli citizen in 1 minute and vote to the party you support. Your whole view of the relationship as a one way street is distorted. There is no us and them. There is a world wide Jewish community trying to figure out what is best for the Jews.

      • James North
        October 4, 2011, 1:49 pm

        the Jewish community in Israel would step up to the plate.

        Odd; this baseball metaphor doesn’t sound like an expression that a native Israeli, or someone who spent most of their life there, as 3e implies he has, would use?
        What do our genuine Israeli visitors think?

      • eee
        October 4, 2011, 2:07 pm

        James North,

        Using ad-hominem attacks now? That is the best you got?
        We went through this mud slinging effort by you guys before.
        I was born in Israel to parents born in Israel. I was born in Beillison (now Rabin) in Petach-Tikva. I spent about 10 years in the IDF. Hebrew is my native tongue. I live in Ramat-Hasharon. I work with the US and travel there often.

        By the way, your prejudice is showing. Why would you find it strange that an Israeli can speak English well enough to know American idioms? You know, we go the whole nine yards when we take something seriously.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 4, 2011, 2:39 pm

        “Why would you find it strange that an Israeli can speak English well enough to know American idioms?”

        Because so many of you say stupid shit like using the word “lynch” as a noun?

      • DBG
        October 4, 2011, 3:11 pm

        wow, that is classic Woody. This is why so many people are skeptical of the anti-Israel movement.

      • eee
        October 4, 2011, 3:11 pm

        You know Woody, your Hebrew ain’t so hot either. Let’s see how you do on a Hebrew blog.

        In Hebrew we use the word “lynch” in the following literal way: They did a lynch to him. ‘עשו לו/בו לינץ
        We do not say: They did a lynching to him. In Hebrew lynch is used as a noun. That is the reason for this common mistake.

        And by the way, where is North? Has he run away to another thread?

      • Cliff
        October 4, 2011, 4:24 pm

        So many people? Like who? Who are these people?

        ‘anti-Israel movement’ is POV. Your POV and people like you.

        We’re not here to tell people what they want to hear.

        I have more faith in non-Zionists to hold an intellectual discussion on the I-P issue.

      • Ellen
        October 4, 2011, 4:47 pm

        Dbg, there you go again with projection. There is not anti-Israel movement. ( maybe only in your mind.)

        But there is a growing awareness that the US needs to be free.

        (And that if Israel is to survive it must grow up, get overe itself, liberate itself from Zionist nationalistic forces, end the occupation ….only then will Isreal be free.)

      • DBG
        October 4, 2011, 5:19 pm

        Ellen, if you aren’t an anti-Israel movement what are you exactly? I’ve been trying to figure you guys out for a while now. A pro-Palestinian movement?

        On several occasions I’ve heard many in your movement talk about getting back at Israel, war with Israel, an impending regional war, etc. How is this anything but anti-Israel? no matter who decides to fight Israel, the outcome will not be good, out could that be labeled as pro-Palestinian? pro-Lebanon, pro-Egypt, etc?

        So I am wrong in classifying your movement as anti-Israel, how should I classify it?

        You guys are all over the board, but the unifying message is anti-Israel.

      • mikeo
        October 4, 2011, 5:30 pm

        Lynching, also known as Lynch law; named after Charles Lynch (jurist); a form of extralegal judgment and punishment, usually by killing

        I’m sorry but the English use of Lynch is quite clear and should usually mean killing. That’s why it was commonly used to describe the hanging of black people by racists in the US south. The usage you are describing is not a correct understanding of the term as used in English – noun or not….

      • Bumblebye
        October 4, 2011, 6:37 pm

        simples, really. Most on here are anti-occupation and anti-judeosupremacism, both of which are unacceptable. Would you accept a foreign occupation force controlling most details of your life? Or would you like to live in a country which legally made you a ‘lesser’ human because of your religion or race? Yet all too often your knee-jerk response is to defend Israel, where you don’t live but to which you feel an emotional attachment.
        As an Anglo, I used to feel that knee-jerk reaction when my country was criticised by others over Northern Ireland, but instead of going with it, i thought why do I feel it? I’ve never been to Ulster, I too didn’t agree with the government, so how’d that happen? So I exorcised it. Maybe you need to delve a bit into your whys and wherefores. Why do you consider our criticism of an occupying country, with blatantly racist laws, which supports theft of land, destruction of livelihoods, rarely if ever punishes those it considers its citizens who cause egregious harm in the occupied land, and so forth, some kind of “anti-Israel”? How could you possibly support those things?
        So, I’m anti state sponsored occupation and theft of the state of another people, and I’m anti codified, institutionalised, ethnosupremacism. If Israel is pro those things, then I’m anti. Are you pro those things? Most of your comments suggest so. If you had a brother who frequently went about attacking and robbing people, would you protect him time and again from the consequences of his actions, help him dispose of stolen goods, intimidate his victims into not pressing charges (while never returning anything stolen), and would you continue while his actions escalated, to the point where you are implicated in his crimes? Or would you try to make him face up to his actions and take the consequences long before that would happen?

      • POA
        October 4, 2011, 7:22 pm

        “You do understand that there are probably less than 100 people out of 6 million Jews responsible for or contemplating such acts? You do understand that the Shabak is trying to apprehend them?”

        We, ya can’t get much more full of shit than that, even if we hooked ya up to an Andy Gump truck. Do you actually expect people to take you serious?

      • POA
        October 4, 2011, 7:26 pm

        OH!!! OH!!!

        PICK ME!!! PICK ME!!!!!

        I’LL RAISE MY HAND!!!!!

        I’m “anti-Israel”, through and through. Its a DESPICABLE nation. Murderous, racist, parasitic on the backs of the American taxpayer. And corrosive to our Congress, our values, and our global reputation.

        Yep, “anti-israel”, I am I am.

      • Chaos4700
        October 4, 2011, 7:28 pm

        DBG, you are clearly pro-ethnic cleansing. That’s all we need to know about you.

      • RoHa
        October 4, 2011, 11:40 pm

        “There is a world wide Jewish community trying to figure out what is best for the Jews.”

        It would be nice if they tried to figure out what is best for everyone.

      • RoHa
        October 4, 2011, 11:42 pm

        “the unifying message is anti-Israel.”

        You say that as if it were a bad thing.

      • justicewillprevail
        October 5, 2011, 7:07 am

        dbg: it is simple. We are anti-apartheid, anti-discrimination, anti ethnic cleansing and pro universal human rights and equal political and social rights for all people living in Greater Palestine/Israel. It speaks volumes that you can’t get your head around that, and insist it is all about you and your self selected group of people. Held to different standards? It is you and your lot who insist on claiming different standards which don’t recognise civil and international norms of behaviour, legal and otherwise.

      • Antidote
        October 5, 2011, 9:23 am

        “It isn’t fair, but Israel IS held to a different standard throughout the world.”

        It’s perfectly fair. You can’t brag about being the only democracy in the ME and keep Palestinians inside Israel and in the OPT/Gaza under the boot, some less so, some much more so.

        You can’t complain about German Jews losing German citizenship and being made stateless and then do the very same thing, 10 years later, in Israel, to Palestinians.

        And you can’t complain about burning synagogues and then let the mosques be burned down in the OPT, with pogroms included. Germany, btw, was held to a different standard as Russia and Poland as well. There hadn’t been any pogroms in Western Europe for centuries, and the world was shocked in 1938. The US, for instance, withdrew the ambassador in response to the Reichskristallnacht. Why should Israel be held to a different standard than Germany?

      • Antidote
        October 5, 2011, 9:47 am

        “There is a world wide Jewish community trying to figure out what is best for the Jews.”

        See, this is what baffles me. Why isn’t there a world wide Greek community trying to figure out what is best for the Greeks, to pick just one possible example. Do the 1 million or so Greek Americans support a lobby which is constantly in the face of other Americans insisting on the right of Greeks in Greece not to pay their taxes? Do the 50 million German Americans contribute to some National Fund to resettle Poland with Germans? Do politicians worry about the Polish or Italian vote, or give absurd numbers of standing ovations to the Mexican president? What business do Jewish Americans have in figuring out what’s best for Jews in Israel? Why aren’t they much more interested in what’s best for Jews and non-Jews in America?

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 5, 2011, 9:49 am

        “wow, that is classic Woody. This is why so many people are skeptical of the anti-Israel movement.”

        Lighten up, Francis, it’s a joke.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 5, 2011, 10:02 am

        “You know Woody, your Hebrew ain’t so hot either.”

        Since I’ve never expressed anything in Hebrew, how, exactly do you know?

        “We do not say: They did a lynching to him.”

        I don’t think anyone says that. In English, we say, “They lynched him.”

        “In Hebrew lynch is used as a noun. That is the reason for this common mistake.”

        Great. Here’s a cookie. That you don’t make that type of mistake common to Israelis is the only point I was making and explains why people might question your bona fides. (I’ll be you know how to pronouce “flotilla,” too.) Congratulations for have a greater command of English than you fellow Israelis. Now if only you could only obtain an eqivalent command of common morality, you would likewise be a step above the defective morality demonstrated by your fellow Israelis.

      • DBG
        October 5, 2011, 10:12 am

        I have an affinity to Israel because I have friends and family there. I have an affinity to Israel because a plurality of Jews live in Israel.

      • eee
        October 5, 2011, 12:09 pm


        Are you claiming that Israelis have a “defective morality” relative to Americans for example? You are a bigot.

      • Chaos4700
        October 5, 2011, 12:23 pm

        I have an affinity to Israel because a plurality of Jews live in Israel.

        So you love Israel for the ethnic cleansing, the racial/religious ID cards and the “No Arabs Allowed!” zones?

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 5, 2011, 1:20 pm


        Piss off and learn how to read. I said that Israelis demonstrate defective morality and I made no mention of Americans on that point. Both people are as capable of decent morality as any people, but they both choose to wallow in evil the way pigs do in shit.

      • eee
        October 5, 2011, 1:35 pm


        So you claim that Israelis and Americans demonstrate defective morality and that both people have made a choice to be evil? Wow, what a generalization and what a bigot you are.

      • RoHa
        October 5, 2011, 7:50 pm

        “What a generalization”

        Can you show that it is an unfair generalization? Woody’s collected posts give his reasons for making the generalization, but I’m sure that he’d summarise them if you asked him nicely. Then you can work out whether the generalization is justified, and report back to us.

      • POA
        October 5, 2011, 11:50 pm

        “Then you can work out whether the generalization is justified, and report back to us”


        Why don’t I just save him the trouble of reporting back to us, and say “Yes, definitely, there is a “defective morality” exhibited by those that support the current policies of Israel”, whether those supporters be Israeli, American, or Plutonian.

        To buttress the asertion of a “defective morality”, I suggest an archival examination of eee’s contributions here.

      • anonymouscomments
        October 6, 2011, 2:13 am

        Woahhhhh eee. Listen, if we are not blind ethnoreligious ideologues, our support for israel SHOULD be conditional. All rational support has its limits, and conditions. Further, our concerns take into account what (we feel) is best for the majority of Israelis, AND the diaspora, which has been dragged in through Zionist constructs and without our actual consent. BTW I think you have a huge mental gap in that you traslate criticism of Israel (and a threat to diminish support, or condition our support, should the GOV not change course) as some red line. Sorry it is called constructive criticism, or tough love, and apparently we are all a step away from citizenship (plus AIPAC and other lobbies employ the support of certain types of ideological Jews, why can’t we have an active opinion?). Israel and Zionists declare that they represent us. This is intrinsically false, and was done without the consent of many who identify as Jews. Nonetheless, if we must play in your ethnoreligious paradigm that was set up, we will say whatever the fuck we want about Israel, condition our support, and even withdraw our support entirely. Same goes for Gentiles. My support is fully withdrawn, though I know many Israelis are caught in a bad situation. Yet I continue to work in the US and even upon visits to Israel to help foster a viable peace, in line with what many Israelis envision. Get a grip if you think you can form a state, then arrogantly demand ethnic or religious Jews owe you some unwavering loyalty… just cause you offer us a home in your effed up racist state. Those who come are generally ideologues, or economic refugees. Some are rich and just like the interesting culture and landscape. The bulk of us could not care much, but due to cultural fears, think of it as an “insurance policy” (I do not, and if it is ever needed as such, it would be Israel’s horrid ACTIONS that help precipitate it, and I would pick another country over IL). Get a grip you whining tribalistic small minded troll. We will say what we want, and the moderator will generally allow your nonsense posts. Fair is fair.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 6, 2011, 9:54 am

        “So you claim that Israelis and Americans demonstrate defective morality and that both people have made a choice to be evil?”

        No, I have claimed that Israelis and Americans have demonstrated defective morality by making the choice to do evil things.

        (I understand as a foreign-language speaker, you might not understand the distinction between what you made up and what I said, but I’d be happy to teach you if you ask nicely.)

        “Wow, what a generalization and what a bigot you are.”

        LOL. A “generalization”? Maybe to someone who has no reasding comprehension or who doesn’t understand the concept of context. I guess I could write on a kindergarten level so that you can understand me, but I’d rather not. (And if you are saying that you don’t understand what “evil actions” have occurred in the context of both Israel and US state policies, then you are either ignorant, dumb, a fool, a liar, insane or brainwashed. So which is it?)

        And as for the slander about me being a bigot?? Let me guess, you recieved your directive from the Ministry for Hasbara and Public Enlightenment to try to push that slander. LOL. You know, as as English isn’t your native language, you might not know it, but “bigot” has an actual, accepted meaning, which simply doesn’t apply in this situation. But I’m sure if you go buy a good English language dictionary, you can see that it doesn’t apply here.

  5. thetumta
    October 3, 2011, 9:44 pm

    Wait until they’re facing their Red Army. It’s going to get very ugly. No more excuses.

  6. Inanna
    October 3, 2011, 10:12 pm

    This is merely a continuation of tactics used since 1947. The state always indicates disapproval but doesn’t implement effective constraints against the terrorism.

  7. eGuard
    October 3, 2011, 10:19 pm

    The NYT knows how to interpret this, as noted by angry arab.

    • chocopie
      October 4, 2011, 12:23 am

      I guess “a patchwork of villages and towns” is how the NYT refers to segregated villages and towns these days. And we all know what “calm” means in that sentence: Palestinians not insisting on their rights as full Israeli citizens.

  8. Daniel Rich
    October 4, 2011, 12:31 am

    I cannot remember any attack on a mosque to have been a hoax. Can anyone out there debunk or confirm this?

    • Chaos4700
      October 4, 2011, 1:42 am

      Huh. So who were you referring to who’s post apparently got bounced, out of curiosity?

      • Daniel Rich
        October 4, 2011, 4:30 am

        Hi Chaos4700,

        I should have made myself clear/er. When I read this article and the severity of the attack, it ‘reminded’ me of attacks on synagogues that turned out to be hoaxes. Then I thought about attacks on mosques and couldn’t for the life of me recollect whether any of those attacks had been orchestrated. Hence my cryptic question.

      • LeaNder
        October 4, 2011, 8:36 am

        Chaos, it feels he is alluding to:

        john h October 3, 2011 at 8:24 pm

        In another statement by the Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America, the group’s president Simcha Katz and vice president Rabbi Steven Weil condemned “the reported acts of vandalism, in which Israelis are alleged to have entered a mosque and set fire to it, destroyed holy objects and wrote hateful graffiti messages on the walls. There is no justification for such actions. Jews should know very well that such actions are beyond the pale.”

        His question is, was there ever an attack on a mosque that turned out to have been set on fire for reasons different from what it looks like now.

  9. ToivoS
    October 4, 2011, 3:05 am

    I have been following events in Palestine and Israel since the late 50s (OK I am that old). It always seemed there was a difference between the Bedouins and the Palestinian (or Arabs as the Israelis described them). Somehow in those early days the Bedouins were considered proIsraeli and they were acclaimed as important allies in the war against the Palestinians. I do recall that they were valued “trackers” for the early Israeli state.

    Does anyone know why the current Israeli government is treating these Bedouins as enemies? It is not just this incident but also the demolition of Bedouin villages in the Negev. Why can’t the Israelis reward them for their service in the war against the Palistinian Arabs during those early days when Israeli state was still in question?

    I have posed this question to a number of Palestinian and Israeli activists over the last 10 years and have only received embarrassed or evasive answers. I think this is a question that should be addressed directly. If it is addressed and dealt with it should be much easier for these two people to enter into a coalition that demands equal rights for all of the native people of Palestine.

    • Remax
      October 4, 2011, 7:58 am

      Because it is overwhelmingly important to Israelis that they be thought of as ‘Western’, an aspiration that doesn’t fit too well with citizens who herd goats and don’t wear trousers?

    • LeaNder
      October 4, 2011, 8:51 am

      “Israel’s attitude towards its Bedouin citizens has always been positive. Well aware of the difficulties of the Bedouin and based on a thorough knowledge of the subject, the last two governments have begun taking steps to solve the problems with unprecedented determination and allocation of the necessary funds.

      A Ministerial Committee for the Advancement of Bedouin Affairs, comprising ten government ministers has been set up and, over the next four to five years, billions of NIS will be allotted for the implementation of the new programs. The Minister of National Infrastructure, who is responsible for construction and housing as well as for the Israel Lands Administration, has been empowered to negotiate with the Bedouin regarding land rights and has adopted a policy of a “once-and-for-all” solution to those problems.”

      The Bedouin in Northern Israel

      “The Bedouin in Galilee and the Jezreel valley, numbering about 50,000, unlike those in the Negev and in the Central region, hail from the Syrian desert. At the beginning of the century their nomadic way of life and militancy put them in a position to harass villages and demand tribute, giving them a sense of superiority over the fellahin (farmers). During the British Mandate the Galilee Bedouin were encouraged to purchase small plots of land and such purchases were recorded in the Land Registry as legal possession.

    • homingpigeon
      October 4, 2011, 9:26 am

      ToivoS, I have some experience with the felahin and Bedu of Jordan and Palestine, also going back to the late 50s. The natural tension between the peasant and the herder is an old one, documented long ago in the Cain and Abel myth, in which the ancient Hebrews appear to believe God prefers the nomads. It breaks out when goats and camels of passing Bedu are eating a village’s crops. It appears with the Kuchi and Hazara in Afghanistan, the nomads and the Darfurians of Sudan, the Hema and Lendu of DRC, and many others. Given this traditional feuding, it is often possible for an outsider to make a deal with one party at the expense of the other – in this case promises of salaries and land guarantees to Bedu for cooperation against felahin. This phenomenon appears in American history as well when cavalry committing genocide against a native tribe were accompanied by natives from a rival tribe. Custer rode to his death accompanied by a tribe that had been victimized by the tribe he was fighting.

      The unfortunate tribe that collaborates with the invader is inevitably discarded by the same invader when the tribe has served the invader’s purpose. Hence the situation of the Palestinian Bedu who serve the Israeli state.

      Within the Palestinian urban community there tends to be a contempt for their nomad cousins similar to that of educated Americans for the Appalachian hillbillys. It’s a human tragedy.

  10. Egbert
    October 4, 2011, 5:40 am

    Interesting article at

    “Much of the officer corps — up to 30 percent by some estimates — consists of men from extremist religious groups.”

    “Some army units, including elite combat units, are entirely made up of religious soldiers, many of them from West Bank settlements.”

    How close are they to getting control of Israel’s nukes?

    Benny Morris says “a profound internal existential crisis has arrived”.

    Oooops, who would have thought it!

    • anonymouscomments
      October 6, 2011, 2:38 am

      Just wait till someone in the IAF blows up al aqsa with a missile …instant regional insanity, and Israel just might repeat 1948 during the massive riots. You know…. “self-defense”. I’m just waiting… They want the mosque gone, and they have the zealots in the right positions. The ONLY question is when, and how disasterous the fallout will be.

  11. Whizdom
    October 4, 2011, 5:48 am

    That’s a complex question. The Bedu of the Galilee might be a special case, as a tightly knit semi pastoralist society without a tradition of nationalist aspirations, they have adapted to millenia of various conquerors by accomodation and making money off whoever was in charge or passing through at the time. They are also less likely to compete with the invaders for class A farmland. The Bedu of the Galilee did defend the Rothschild settlements from Arab attack during the Arab uprisings in the 30’s and again in ’48. Because of the great Arab displacements of ’48 and ’67 the Bedu recognized settlements have seen an influx of Arabs (who have few alternatives), this has caused some tension.

    The horror in the Negev is a slightly different matter, it is no less than the erasure of a people and a way of life.

    The simplest explanation for your question is racism. It is true, the Bedu do not assimilate much, and typically they do not thrive in sedentary town life, they simply want to be left alone to pursue a tradition and way of life that predates the notion of nation states and borders.

    • seafoid
      October 4, 2011, 10:00 am

      “the great Arab displacements”

      Call it by its proper name, dude. Israel’s ethnic cleansing.

  12. Remax
    October 4, 2011, 6:02 am

    It is hard to imagine that burning mosques will outrage too many US citizens given their levels of Islamophobia and the fact that a not insignificant number would be happy to do it themselves. However, not so the rest of the world. All these acts, appalling as they are individually are collectively serving to isolate Israel and as that happens the population will tend increasingly to fragment enhancing potential for a change of leadership; it does seem that Netanyahu is no longer in complete command of all his senses. Petraeus was shaking his head the other day, saying how he couldn’t see that Israel’s military might was much use against diplomatic isolation. Is it really too late for a solution to be found entirely peacefully?

  13. annie
    October 4, 2011, 12:16 pm

    thanks for covering this important story lizzy.

    wrt to the latest mosque attack in the galilee Settlers set fire to West Bank mosque after Israel demolishes illegal structures in Migron.

    somehow the incident that happened hrs earlier is missing from most reports about this arson:

    The settler attack comes on the heels of response of the demolition of three buildings early Monday morning in the West Bank settlement outpost Migron, 14 kilometers north of Jerusalem.

    Around 200 settlers assembled and tried to make their way to the structures, hoping to stop the bulldozers in their tracks. Six youths were arrested.

    The incident began an hour past midnight, when the police officers began emptying the buildings of their contents. While this was taking place, Regavim, a settlers’ advocacy group, petitioned the Supreme Court, asking for a court injunction stopping the demolition. Justice Neil Hendel, who heard the petition, granted the advocacy group a 12-hour delay, halting the demolition.

    The respite turned out to be short-lived, as a few hours later, the Supreme Court issued another order which sanctioned the demolition, and rendering the previous injunction void.

    The three buildings, built this year, were ordered to be destroyed by the Supreme Court, following a petition issued by Yesh Din, an Israeli human rights group. The state initially said it would comply with the court ruling by mid-July, and later postponed the demolition to an unspecified date during September.

    Danny Dayan, the chairman of the Yesha Council of West Bank settlements, who arrived at the scene, said “the decision to demolish the houses was made by the government not the court, thus the responsibility for this futile action lay with the government. It is still not too late for the Prime Minister to reverse the decision.”

    all this was going on in the middle of the night. by 3 am the mosque was torched.

  14. Whizdom
    October 4, 2011, 12:34 pm

    This is chilling

    A book/ polemic by a national security wonk stating the Arabs can not be fully integrated, it is all their fault, and their only options are to accept a second class, apartheid status, peacefully, or accept transfer. Quite matter of factly stated.

  15. dbroncos
    October 4, 2011, 12:41 pm

    The State Dept. report on human rights abuses in Israel and the occupied territories will include this terrorist attack on the mosque. It won’t be read by the Peace Prize winner, or Clinton or anyone else with any influence. Years from now, however, it will be interesting material for historians trying to answer the question of why American leadership stood alone in the world, wasting billions of dollars, in support of a small, racist, desert country in the Middle East whose “friendship” was such a liability to the US.

  16. kursato
    October 4, 2011, 1:47 pm

    The people of israel was once known for its cleverness and intellegence, it looks like it has lost it forever. İt has been hijacked by land grabby zionist settlers

  17. radii
    October 4, 2011, 3:42 pm

    eee comes out

    wow (I know you israelis don’t really say that)

    you really revealed yourself in these comments today … I figured you were military or private security company guy

    you said “There is a world wide Jewish community trying to figure out what is best for the Jews.” … which I found rather heartening, coming from a rabid pro-israel person such as yourself

    you admit that the situation is in need of a re-think – what you have now is not working (the bunker state, the apartheid, the settler mob now running things) … I’m going to make it easy for you:

    What is best for “the Jews” is that they realize and wrap their collective heads around the fact that never before in their history have they known such prosperity, such freedom, so little persecution as they do in the last 40 years globally and build upon that. Further, what is best for “the Jews” is that they come to realize that dominating and controlling whatever they can does not translate into security. Considering being good neighbors rather than dominating and controlling the neighborhood is a good place to start the self-reflection and internal discussion … it’s called SHARING. All Jews everywhere are put in danger by the radical regime of israel and that must be acknowledged and addressed. Your crazies are out-of-control over there and for your own sakes the world is asking you to get a handle on it, lest their madness generate all kinds of other conflicts. The notion of a Greater Israel must be completely abandoned – it can live on the hearts of the religious, fine, but as a practical geo-political goal: NEVER. American Jews need to realize they have an obligation, and time grows short, to rein in the israeli madness and de-fund the settlers and control them. Also realize the path you’re on in israel is to a bunker state no Jew dares stick their head up from – what kind of life is that? … Jews who live in israel can think of it as a “Jewish state” fine, but to codify that into law and demand the rest of the world swallow that – nonsense … the rest of the world has come to protect the rights of its minorities for the most part and accept the reality of pluralistic societies and it’s long past time israel wake to the reality that it will end up a secular, pluralistic state that shares resources and borders with Palestine and the era of co-existence must begin and the era of domination must end

  18. kursato
    October 4, 2011, 5:29 pm

    This is the third in a month…

    nobody in the world that says anything.

  19. mikeo
    October 5, 2011, 10:21 am

    “Zionism: The real enemy of the Jews”$id

    • DBG
      October 5, 2011, 11:25 am

      Wow, Alan Hart, the truther who blamed 9/11 on Mossad. Talk about an unbiased source.

      • mikeo
        October 5, 2011, 11:33 am

        Alan Hart, personal friend of Golda Meir…

      • RoHa
        October 5, 2011, 7:53 pm

        Do you think that a biased source can be ignored? If so, you will have to ignore just about every source. Learn to work around the bias to extract the truth from the source.

  20. mikeo
    October 5, 2011, 11:36 am

    Anyway, there’s nothing in the speech I linked to that blames Mossad for 911 so why not read the actual speech instead of engaging in your usual tactic of ad-hominem?

    Afraid of what you might find out?

    • DBG
      October 5, 2011, 12:09 pm

      here is an interview with him on Alex Jones no less, claiming the Mossad was responsible for 9/11.

      Former BBC Reporter Alan Hart Reveals ‘Mossad’ Involved in 9/11 on Alex Jones Tv 1/5

      • Chaos4700
        October 5, 2011, 12:21 pm

        So? You blamed Iraqis for 9/11 back in the day. Don’t be casting the first stone, there, DBG.

      • DBG
        October 5, 2011, 2:01 pm

        LOL! prove it Chaos, prove to me I said Iraq was responsible for 9/11. Hart’s words are documented. I on the other hand never said these lies you accuse me of.

      • Chaos4700
        October 5, 2011, 2:20 pm

        We both know I don’t have access to any of the crap you post elsewhere. But nobody here is stupid. You’re on the same wavelength as hophmi and eee. Why should we believe your blind following of the anti-Arab narrative only has one localized exception?

      • mikeo
        October 5, 2011, 2:27 pm

        DBG – why don’t you read the actual speech I linked to, and then tell me which bits of it you disagree with.

        Play the ball and not the man, eh old chap…

      • DBG
        October 5, 2011, 2:32 pm

        far enough mikeo, will check it out.

  21. mikeo
    October 5, 2011, 11:47 am

    DBG: Alan Hart – truther.

    Wikipedia: Alan Hart – Alan Hart is an author, former Middle East Chief Correspondent for Independent Television News,[1] and former BBC Panorama presenter specialising in the Middle East.

    Smear tactics much?

    • IranContraClanDidNineEleven
      October 5, 2011, 3:28 pm

      “DBG: Alan Hart – truther.”

      DBG can’t take down Alan Hart’s analysis in a legitimate debate so he starts slinging mud. Alan Hart is a courageous and very well-informed human being, we could use more like him.

      • DBG
        October 5, 2011, 3:50 pm

        Sorry, I can’t respect someone who blames 9/11 on the Mossad on the Alex Jone’s radio show.

      • Ellen
        October 5, 2011, 4:23 pm

        Lack of respect, for whatever reason — justified or not — is no reason not to engage in respectful debate.

        Hart engaged the Foxman.

        What is your problem with Jones and the idea that Mossad , CIA and others pretending not to know what could be coming down? There is a real logic to it.

        I worked with State shortly before 9-11, and we were on all these unusual exercises and alerts in Europe. We knew something was coming was on the way. But was in NYC at the time.

      • RoHa
        October 5, 2011, 7:56 pm

        “I can’t respect someone who blames 9/11 on the Mossad on the Alex Jone’s radio show.”

        What causes the lack of respect? Saying it on the radio show, or saying that Mossad was responsible?

        If the latter, why does that claim lead to loss of respect?

      • IranContraClanDidNineEleven
        October 6, 2011, 8:15 am

        “If the latter, why does that claim lead to loss of respect?”

        Cuz it’s true?

  22. MHughes976
    October 5, 2011, 6:38 pm

    Alan Hart seems to have moved from early admiration of Israel to current disillusion. Disillusion sometimes leads to excess. His website argues that Israeli and perhaps Western intelligence services must have known something, since they pretty effective, of the 9/11 plot even if it was originally hatched in other quarters. But this limited (though plausible) proposition slowly grows, for no substantial reason that I can see, into a version of the famous ‘letting it happen on purpose’ idea – whereas in truth (!) there is a massive difference between having many suspicions and being in a position to make a reasonably definite prediction.
    I think that a lot of what he says on general ME topics makes sense. I’m rather sorry to see him driving hard down this particular blind alley.

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