NPR story on Dead Sea Scrolls makes listener feel like a goose being force-fed Israel propaganda

How I felt listening to NPR’s report on Dead Sea Scrolls Thursday

NPR did a breathless story Thursday on an exhibit of the Dead Sea Scrolls in a space called Discovery Times Square– an exhibit mounted in partnership with the Israeli Antiquities Authority, an Israeli governmental authority. But reporter Margot Adler didn’t tell you that.

Adler: … you can roam past artifacts from the Israeli Antiquities Authority, some never shown before. Statues, pottery, jewelry, Roman Hellenistic and objects from ancient Israel, the first and second temple periods.

I don’t know that that’s properly described as “ancient Israel.” These artifacts are from all over lands ruled by many different kingdoms. Qumram, the place where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found, is today in the Occupied West Bank, what we now call Palestine.

Adler: [Curator] Risa Levitt Kohn says there are 350 active excavations going on in Israel at any time

Again, I don’t think these excavations are going on in Israel. The Israeli Antiquities Authority — with whom Levitt Kohn works closely — lists many excavations underway in occupied territories, including the Golan, East Jerusalem, and the West Bank. 

Adler: and one purpose of the exhibit is to help people appreciate the ancient world.

Huh. Is that really the purpose of the exhibit? Somehow I doubt it.

P.S. I intend sympathy for the goose with this post. I find force-feeding of these animals a despicable practice.

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of
Posted in Israel Lobby, Israel/Palestine, Israeli Government, Media

{ 83 comments... read them below or add one }

  1. Avi_G. says:

    The New York Metropolitan Museum of Art recently opened a new gallery showcasing artifacts from Arab Lands (As they put it).

    link to

    While it may not be related to NPR’s story or to the timing of their so-called report, it is an interesting coincidence.

    Still, Israeli propaganda has long used questionable and cherry-picked archeology to assert Israel’s legitimacy. So, the timing could be of no special significance.

    • eGuard says:

      Thank you again, Avi_G for pointing the right direction to look.

      (Btw, what happened to your nick? Nick-clicking gives Avi and only until Sep 17).

      • Avi_G. says:


        Thanks. I think the problem is that commenter archives rely on screen names to perform lookups instead of relying on the account associated with them for said lookups.

        So when a screen name is changed, the website stops compiling posts associated with that screen name, even though the same account is associated with that original screen name.

        Anyway, I’m not a computer programmer, but that seems to be the rationale behind it. Perhaps someone with more knowledge about these things can chime in. Better yet, the website programmer can probably provide a better answer/explanation.

    • eGuard says:

      Really, The New York Metropolitan Museum of Art (the Met) says Arab Lands?

      Trouble ahead I say, in 2000 years. Those Arabs will come back and claim it.

  2. Dan Crowther says:

    I feel like the goose every time i listen to NPR, read the Times, turn on the TV……. we are all the goose….im expecting something really funny from mooser on this one, oh boy…. :)

    • I felt like the goose when in my History class, during a class presentation on the accuracy of the Moses story, a girl said she went to the Israel Museum last summer and saw the Dead Sea Scrolls, so this proves the Bible is true. i felt like my head was LITERALLY going to explode

      • richb says:

        Don’t blame the girl. When you go on these tours the Israelis do not sound like Jonah. They keep telling the gullible Christians how all this archeology supports the Bible but it doesn’t. But for people like Jonah all they want is a political David and not the religious one that my friends care about. So, they say one thing to me here and a different thing to my friends. Problem is I live in both worlds and I hear the two conflicting propaganda lines. Evangelical Christians care about confirming the Bible. So, they get used as useful idiots so that they will lobby their Congress critters back home.

    • Mooser says:

      “im expecting something really funny from mooser on this one, oh boy…. :)”

      Sorry, but I think Phil can solve all his TV problems with one well-thrown brick, and a firm nolle prosequi to his cable provider. Really helps eliminate that bloated, overfed feeling.

  3. tommy says:

    My spouse dragged me to her big box Pentecostal church last night for a viewing of The Exodus Decoded. I was the only one in the audience who thought the whole thing was an exercise in rationalizing the expansion of Israeli hegemony. If fears of war could be augured by an aching liver, then the association by these religious nuts with the divine right of Israelis to rule over the Middle East is an epidemic of hepatitis C.

    • john h says:

      the association by these religious nuts with the divine right of Israelis to rule over the Middle East is an epidemic of hepatitis C.

      Thanks for that, tommy, such an apt analogy.

      “The hepatitis C virus causes hepatitis C. Viruses are germs that can cause sickness. For example, the flu is caused by a virus. People can pass viruses to each other.” link to

      Christians who are also Zionists are trying to do the impossible. The two are a contradiction; these people are living the lie of imagining they can serve two masters and reconcile an oxymoron.

      Their sickness is seen in their hypocrisy and blindness, caused by the self-deception and delusion virus, which they cement by passing on to others and to each other. It produces a form of idolatry, the worship of and sacrifice to the Zionist state of Israel.

      It is a classic case of the blind leading the blind, and of deceiving and being deceived.
      It is more than hepatitis C virus; it is nothing less than a malignant cancer within the Christian church.

      The Jesus they claim to follow gives the last word with this searing analysis:

      The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light; but if your eye is malignant, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then, the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!

      No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. (Matthew 6:21-24)

  4. Shortly after the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, they came under Israeli control and dissapeared from public view for decades. I think Israel used that inexcuseably selfish secrecy to remove any and all references to Palestinians.. Why the heck else would Israel have kept them so secret for so long?

    • Chaos4700 says:

      Hang on to that, if you please, and come back with it later on this post? We will inevitably get some hasbara ziofreak who will tell us Israel saved the Dead Sea Scrolls from the Mooooslim world.

      • Mooser says:

        Nothing seems to scare them more than the idea that the problems of colonialism or injustice might be solved anywhere in the world. Solving any of those problems they view as a threat.
        I think the solution to any one of those problems will provide help in solving as many as possible.

        • Mooser says:

          And make no mistake: The Zionist attitude is not “You must leave us alone” their attitude is “you must support us in perpetuating this injustice”

    • Cliff says:

      Phil, can we track more on this story?

      I remember a book about how Israeli archaeologists ‘create’ a historical context for Zionism. Political archaeology!

      I have it at my parents house. Got it several years back.

      What is the history around the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, etc.? I know the Palestinians voiced their protest about having them deemed ‘Israeli’ or something, when they were shown abroad at some museum i think?

    • Okie. Please show us your proofs that Israel had control of the Dead Sea Scrolls early on.

      • MRW says:

        Google it yourself, proudzionist777, and don’t ask anyone here to provide proof you should, and could, be determining on your own. It’s a long established fact and complaint in the scholarly world.

        • I don’t need Google to know that Israel did not have early custody of the Dead Sea Scrolls. The scrolls were housed in the Rockefeller Museum in Jordanian controlled Jerusalem until 1967. Roland Vaux and John Stugnell effectively monopolized scholarly research into the scrolls until the 1990′s. So I say to Okie, and now to MRW… WTF are you two talking about?

          Again. Okie said, “Shortly after the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered, they came under Israeli control and dissapeared from public view for decades”.

          This is a baseless claim that should be qualified (notwithstanding MRW’s sorry attempt at trying to bully me).

      • Charon says:

        It’s one thing to ask for proof or a source on something you are generally curious about validating. It’s another when the Hasbarists ask.. They’re not asking for peace of mind, they ask because they know the odds of a reply are less than a sure thing and they can use it as a way to discredit what is being said. “No source? No response? This person cannot be taken seriously!”

        Right, and proudzionist777 can? They live by double standards and rarely back up the nonsense reiterated from propagandists with sources. And when they do it is usually a biased Zionist op-ed. The Hasbarists are banking on a higher reader-to-comments ratio, hoping they will persuade the casual lurkers. It doesn’t work, it’s 2011. People are not that dumb

        And getting to my point here, proudzionist777, GOOGLE IT! It’s the Dead Sea Scrolls… full of controversy… Tons of valid stuff. Read the Wikipedia article, it goes all over the place. Says somebody bought the scrolls and put them into a Jerusalem museum and then says Jordan always retained control and they put it in the museum. Then there are the hoax claims, the claims that it messes up Abrahamic scripture and is half apocrypha. Oh and they were kept away from the public for decades. Probably to remove all that stuff which proved there never was an Israel. I love the Zio-propaganda on it.. Like how they were written on a stone from the Western Wall. HAHA! Hollywood has some good writers.. Again, google it when you want a source most of the stuff you ask about is well sourced.

        • Charon. You are all over the place. The Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered in 1947, move to Beirut for safe keeping during Israel’s War of Independence and than housed in Jordanian controlled Jerusalem until 1967.
          Soooooo when did the Zionists have the opportunity to ‘remove all that stuff which proved there never was an Israel’?

          I’m waiting.

        • Scholarly research was monopolized for year by the scrolls editor in chief, a drunken jew hating troll from England, believe it or not. In 1990 Strugnell gave an interview to Ha’aretz in which he said that Judaism was a “horrible religion” which “should not exist,”. He also said that Judaism was “a Christian heresy, and we deal with our heretics in different ways. You are a phenomenon that we haven’t managed to convert — and we should have managed.”

          Yup. Strugnell was just the man to, and I quote Charon, “remove all that stuff which proved there never was an Israel”.


        • Chaos4700 says:

          a drunken jew hating troll from England

          Sounds like a very academic assessment, not propagandistic at all.

  5. Chaos4700 says:

    The image was particularly powerful. I know it is more of an editorial device than a journalistic device, but I think you should use symbolic images more often in your posts wherever appropriate (maybe I’m biased, I’m a visual artist after all).

    • Avi_G. says:

      The human brain is wired in such a way as to render visuals more effective than abstract concepts. For example, one is more likely to recall a color after having seen it painted on an object or existing in nature, rather than reading the name assigned to that color. No?

      Symbolism is a great way for humans to communicate ideas to each other as we often store thoughts and concepts based on connotational classification, kind of like word association…Yellow cab…Sunflower…Sunrays…Beach…Kite…Breeze… ;)

  6. GalenSword says:

    From the Khaleej Times

    link to

    Israel Steals Palestinian Heritage, History Karin Friedemann (LETTER FROM AMERICA)

    25 May 2009 Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Salam Fayad has made a formal complaint to the Canadian government regarding the intention of Toronto’s Royal Ontario Museum to collaborate with the Israel Antiquities Authority to host “Dead Sea Scrolls: Words that Changed the World” from June 27 to January 3, 2010.
    Palestinian Archaeological Department Director-General Hamdan Taha explains, “The exhibition would entail exhibiting or displaying artifacts removed from the Palestinian territories… I think it is important that Canadian institutions would be 
responsible and act in accordance with Canada’s obligations.”

    The Israeli exhibition violates international conventions or protocols that Canada has ratified and that protect cultural property during armed conflict. The State of Israel seized the Jordanian-owned Rockefeller Museum in Jerusalem in 1967 to take possession of the scrolls and has continued to loot similar Palestinian cultural property from the Occupied Territories ever since. Under the 1970 Convention on the Means of Prohibiting and Preventing the Illicit Import, Export and Transfer of Ownership of Cultural Property and the 1954 Hague Convention along with its two associated protocols, Canada is legally obliged “to take appropriate steps to recover and return any such cultural property” at the request of 
the wronged party.

    The Dead Sea Scrolls exhibition is part of Israel’s effort to re-brand itself. According to The Economist, American Jewish groups and Israeli diplomats are trying to create the perception of Israel as “hip, cool, cultured, fun and creative.” The campaign has included placing sexually suggestive advertisements in Maxim and other men’s magazines.

    Harvard Professor Stephen Walt suggests in his Foreign Policy blog that the re-branding effort is foredoomed to failure: “Restoring Israel’s image in the West isn’t a matter of spin or PR or ‘re-branding;’ it’s a matter of abandoning the policies that have cost it the sympathy it once enjoyed. It’s really just 
about that simple.”

    The archaeological component of the propaganda campaign, however, uses subliminal suggestion to bypass such political arguments. A top Israeli re-branding advocate argues, “[Let’s] get to that first stage when people associate Israel with science and music and archaeology…Then we’ll take it 
from there.”

    In Facts on the Ground Columbia Professor Nadia Abu Al Haj writes, “In the context of Israel and Palestine, archaeology emerged as a central scientific discipline because of the manner in which colonial settlement was configured in a language of, and a belief in, Jewish national return.” Even though asserting ownership to a country after absence of 2000 years is preposterous, Israel’s theft of Palestine from the native population is popularly legitimised through the claim that today’s Jews descend from inhabitants of Greco-Roman Judea.

    According to New York Times Reporters Ethan Bonner and Isabel Kershner in “Parks Fortify Israel’s Claim to Jerusalem,” “[There] is a battle for historical legitimacy. As part of the effort, archaeologists are finding indisputable evidence of ancient Jewish life here.”

    This claim is nonsense.

    Intellectuals of Jewish origin in 19th century Germany, influenced by the folk character of German nationalism, invented their folk narratives ‘retrospectively,’ out of a thirst to create a modern Jewish people, argues Tel Aviv University Professor Shlomo Sand, author of How and When the Jewish People Was Invented.

    There is no single founder population for modern Jewry any more than there is a single founder population for modern Christians or modern Muslims. Late ancient and early medieval texts describe an ethnically diverse collection of communities associated with proselytizing pre-Rabbinic Judaism.

    In English to use the word Jew is anachronistic before the 10th century when medieval Rabbinic Judaism crystallised thanks to the efforts of Saadyah Gaon (Sa‘îd bin Yûsuf al-Fayyûmi) and his colleagues.

    With the revolutionary codification of Rabbinic law these communities became part of a vast trade network that spanned the Christian and Muslim world and that extended into China and began to exchange members on a large scale. The main population-exporting region seems to have been located in territories near the Black Sea.

    Current genetic anthropological findings based on DNA analysis indicate that the male ancestors of Yiddish Jewry were of Eastern European and non-Levantine Southwest Asian origin while the female ancestors were Eastern Europeans.

    Sand admits, “[The] chances that the Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Judaic people are much greater than the chances that you or I [meaning Israeli Jews] are its descendents.”

    The Palestinians’ ancestors created the Hasmonean Kingdom, composed the Hebrew Bible, followed Jesus, wrote the New Testament, compiled the Mishnah, and redacted the Jerusalem Talmud. The Palestinian people constitute the living link to the earliest beginnings of the heritage from the Torah and Gospel.

    Zionists are almost pitiable, for they are so ashamed of their own history that they have usurped one belonging to another people. When the Israeli government sends the Dead Sea Scrolls to Canada, by its own law Canada must turn them over to their rightful owners — the Palestinian people.

    Karin Friedemann is a Boston-based writer on Middle East affairs and US politics. She is Director of the Division on Muslim Civil Rights and Liberties for the National Association of Muslim American Women. Joachim Martillo contributed to this article.

    • jonah says:

      From the link:
      “The State of Israel seized the Jordanian-owned Rockefeller Museum in Jerusalem in 1967 to take possession of the scrolls and has continued to loot similar Palestinian cultural property from the Occupied Territories ever since.”

      Nice try, but false. The Rockefeller Museum, named after his sponsor, was forcefully nationalized by Jordan in 1966. Until then, it was run by an international board of trustees. Thus, the Jordanian ownership, like the previous annexation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, is widely considered illegal. During the six days-war the Museum fell in the hands of Israel and since then it has been managed by the Israel Museum and the Israel Department of Antiquities and Museums. (wikipedia)

      The “cultural property from the Occupied Territories” is part of the historical and cultural heritage of the Jewish people, since the territories were called originally “Judea and Samaria,” the heart of the ancient kingdom of Israel. The Palestinians confuse their nationalistic claims with the history. Palestinians are of Arab origin the same as Syrians, Lebanese, Egyptians, etc.

      “Current genetic anthropological findings based on DNA analysis indicate that the male ancestors of Yiddish Jewry were of Eastern European and non-Levantine Southwest Asian origin while the female ancestors were Eastern Europeans.
      Sand admits, “[The] chances that the Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Judaic people are much greater than the chances that you or I [meaning Israeli Jews] are its descendents.”

      Any reliable source for this claim apart from Sand? Recent studies refute his thesis and reaffirm the genetic common ancestry of all Jewish populations.

      “The Palestinians’ ancestors created the Hasmonean Kingdom, composed the Hebrew Bible, followed Jesus, wrote the New Testament, compiled the Mishnah, and redacted the Jerusalem Talmud. The Palestinian people constitute the living link to the earliest beginnings of the heritage from the Torah and Gospel.
      Zionists are almost pitiable, for they are so ashamed of their own history that they have usurped one belonging to another people.”

      That beats everything! Human imagination knows no limits. A pity that it is used here for mere propaganda purposes, as well expressed in the last sentence.

      • lyn117 says:

        Why I should argue with religious fanatics, I’m not sure

        is part of the historical and cultural heritage of the Jewish people, since the territories were called originally “Judea and Samaria,” the heart of the ancient kingdom of Israel.

        Just one problem with this statement is that there were no Jews at the time the “ancient kingdom of Israel” supposedly existed. All the people were pagans.

        And yes, from that time on, there were no major exoduses of people from what became known as Palestine including ancient Judea and Samaria, until the Zionists came. A few of the leaders decamped after some brutal crackdowns by Romans and there were some other times when armies came through and committed some mass murders, but by and large most of the people stuck around, farmed their farms, herded their flocks or whatever, and adopted new religions as they came along. So its quite fair to say the Palestinians are the descendants of the people of the Hasmonian kingdom.

        • jonah says:

          Sorry to say, but this summary of the ancient history of the Middle East appears to be pretty banal, generic and reductive. It can not be taken seriously. It’s an example of how history is used as propaganda tool ​​by the pro-Palestinian camp, and in primis by the Palestinians themselves.
          There is enough written and archeological evidence now to objectively say that there was indeed a united kingdom of Israel under David and Salomon in the 10th century BCE, with capital Jerusalem, even though not to the extent as described in the Bible …
          link to
          link to

          Archeology has even discovered forms of syncretism between ancient Jewish worship and the pagan cult of the Canaanites.

          No serious person would deny these facts; yet, we can not expect that anti-Zionist fanatics* are willing to acknowledge them.

          From a genetic point of view, Jews and Palestinians have close, similar genetic roots. This should be a reason for reconciliation, but as we know, genetics has little to do with politics and religion …..

          *(To censorship: I do use the word “fanatics” in the same way it was used in the previous comment. If you think it’s unfair, you should use same standards for all.)

        • dahoit says:

          Didn’t the Nat, Geo have an article about the genetic contribution of the ancient Phoenicians to the Mediterranean area a few years ago?Why can’t they do the same with the Israelis to end(or not)questions of Jewish racial ties?
          And no one is an anti Zionist fanatic,just angry that Zionism affects our non Zionist nation in multiple negative ways,and angry that they have bought off our political critters in a total corruption of Constitutional values(the Zionist state is obviously totally unConstitutional) and American society.
          Fanatics;Fans of a team;We have no team in the ME,only the obvious detriment to America by our association with this entity that copies the evil policies of their bogeyman Uncle Adolf in an insane attempt to rewrite the ground rules for civilized behavior.It is the Zionists who are the fanatics,and their poison has spread to our feckless and corrupt pols,except Dr.Paul.that is why they obscure and marginalize him,because on his election the gravy train will end,and the Israelis will no longer be like the dog that can lick his ass,only because he can(Violence against civilians)and peace just might break out,instead of this wacko enabling association.

        • richb says:

          There is enough written and archeological evidence now to objectively say that there was indeed a united kingdom of Israel under David and Salomon in the 10th century BCE, with capital Jerusalem, even though not to the extent as described in the Bible …

          First you quoted Wikipedia and is typical for any article dealing with Israel has all sorts of Hasbara fingerprints on it. The only source for the article is a non-peer-reviewed report from Eilat Mazar. Note that Mazar is a Senior Fellow at the Shalem Center, a foundation that was established in 1994 to promote Zionism and free market economics in Israel. Back when I was looking into the pseudo-science of climate change I saw the exact same M.O. with politically motivated organizations sponsoring research that sought to overturn the overwhelming consensus view. The only difference I can see is the bogus climate research was sponsored by rich Gentiles rather than rich Jews.

          Again, all the Wikipedia article quoted hinges on Mazel’s work which to put it most charitably is extremely controversial. The attitude of the scientific community not captured by radical Zionism toward Mazel is best summed up by the following quote from Israel Finkelstein:

          The biblical text dominates this field operation, not archaeology. Had it not been for Mazar’s literal reading of the biblical text, she never would have dated the remains to the 10th century BCE with such confidence.

          Israel Finkelstein, Ze’ev Herzog, Lily Singer-Avitz and David Ussishkin (2007), Has King David’s Palace in Jerusalem Been Found?, Tel Aviv: Journal of the Institute of Archaeology of Tel Aviv University, 34(2), 142-164; p. 154

          Your citation of Nova is much better and again the archeological consensus is accurately portrayed by the following quote from your citation:

          But I think most archeologists today would argue that the United Monarchy was not much more than a kind of hill-country chiefdom. It was very small-scale.

        • lyn117 says:

          Jonah, I can’t find anything in your own wikipedia link that claims there was indeed a united kingdom of Israel under David and Salomon (sic). It doesn’t matter, archeological evidence shows that even if David and Solomon existed, grand king or tribal chief, they were pagans, not Jews.

          Syncretism? I’m sure there’s been syncretism. To call the Canaanite paganism a cult is somewhat derogatory and backwards. Yahweh was after all, just one of the Canaanite deities, don’t you find it curious David didn’t choose to worship Salem, the Canaanite god of the dusk, after whom Jerusalem is named? There’s absolutely no doubt that many bible stories are nearly identical to earlier pagan ones. My history book mentions the “cult of Yahweh” which rose out of the pagan culture, later it was adopted as the state religion of the Hasmonian kingdom who force-converted surrounding people it conquered to its monotheistic faith. Even then, the early monotheistic faith was very different from modern Judaism.

        • jonah says:

          Small-scale, indeed, but real. Has the Jewish people ever been large-scale?

          Here they even attempt to deny the very existence of the Jewish people and its small-scale ancient kingdom. Do you find that to be honest? I do not.

        • richb says:

          It’s a lot more honest than when I visited the so-called City of David. There was no evidence of David, nor Solomon, nor even monotheism in the Tenth Century BCE. The Jebusites had an impressive kingdom on the other hand. (To call David a king is a huge stretch.) Another item exaggerated is the Babylonian Captivity. This was only a crisis for the ruling elite. The common folk probably didn’t notice much. The common part of Jerusalem was not attacked and they had already voluntarily leaving the city for over a century before the Babylonians came. In other words, most of the diaspora didn’t happen and it could very well be the case that it’s more likely that Palestinians have more ancient Jewish blood coursing through their veins than Jews do!

        • jonah says:

          Is the difference between monotheism and paganism clear to you?
          I can guess where your religious relativism wants to go ….

          Yahweh was since the beginning not a deity among others but the “one true God”. The only syncretism reported is the contentious reference to Asherah as the “mother goddess”. In fact, the rise of the Hebrew monotheist religion, which considered Yahweh as the god of Israel, derived from the the creation of a unified kingdom early in Iron Age II.

        • richb says:

          Is the difference between monotheism and paganism clear to you?
          I can guess where your religious relativism wants to go …

          Yes. I know the difference.

          The earliest undisputed ritual find in Jerusalem is a fragment of a ceramic cult stand with molded human figures on it. The stand was made in the Canaanite tradition, and perhaps it should be attributed to a shrine that was built on the nearby hilltop. More evidence of early ritual practice is a small niche with a stela and two chalices found on the lower slope of the city and dated to the 10th–9th centuries B.C.E.

          Thousands of clay figurines and parts of clay figurines of women, as well as hundreds of figurines or parts of figurines of animals, were found in strata from the times of the kings of Judea. The number of figurines found in Judahite Jerusalem is the largest found in any site in Israel. The fragments of figurines were found in almost every structure excavated in the site, sometimes dozens in one place. These figurines tell us about a very widespread popular belief in the importance of female figures—an expression of an unofficial religious practice that may have been the exclusive realm of Jerusalem’s women.

          To this day no conclusive evidence has been found as to the existence of a temple in Jerusalem, even after the excavations around the Temple Mount/Haram al- Sharif and the sifting of the dirt fill from the hill. Thus my comment of no evidence of mono-theism.

        • lyn117 says:

          “Yahweh was since the beginning not a deity among others but the “one true God”. ???

          Yet even the bible mentions other gods. At least the NJB and Dead Sea scrolls certainly do. I’m not sure what truth value one should put in a religious tract written hundreds of years after the events it purportedly reports on anyway. I mean, it also reports that Moses came down from the mountain with the 10 commandments inscribed by “God” on tablets in Hebrew script. Well, Hebrew script didn’t actually exist at the time he supposedly did this. Why would “God” write commandments using an alphabet that would be practically indecipherable to the people trying to read it at the time?

          You are claiming a certain tract of land called variously Israel or Palestine, and its contents as belonging to Jews because it’s their “historical and cultural heritage” and the only evidence you provide comes from some religious doctrine. If I believe you, that also implies that people who convert to another religion have no right to property or cultural artifacts of their ancestors, or even to live in land their ancestors lived in for 1000s of years simply because some ancestor of theirs converted, for example, most people in Palestine had adopted Christianity by 400 CE, including former Jews.

          To me it’s the mark of the fanatic who says that people who happen to be of the wrong religion lose any or all rights.

        • MRW says:

          Jonah (and Richb, just for fun), the following are the words of Ze’ev Herzog, Professor of Archaeology at The Department of Archaeology and Ancient Near Eastern Cultures at Tel Aviv University, Director of The Sonia and Marco Nadler Institute of Archaeology, and Archaeological Advisor to the Israel Nature and National Parks Protection Authority.

          A Journal of History, Geography, Language and Archaeology

          Deconstructing the Walls of Jericho

          By Professor Ze’ev Herzog, Tel Aviv University

          Following 70 years of intensive excavations in the Land of Israel, archaeologists have found out: The patriarchs’ acts are legendary stories, we did not sojourn in Egypt or make an exodus, we did not conquer the land. Neither is there any mention of the empire of David and Solomon. Those who take an interest have known these facts for years, but Israel is a stubborn people and doesn’t want to hear about it.

          This is what archaeologists have learned from their excavations in the Land of Israel: the Israelites were never in Egypt, did not wander in the desert, did not conquer the land in a military campaign and did not pass it on to the 12 tribes of Israel. Perhaps even harder to swallow is that the united monarchy of David and Solomon, which is described by the Bible as a regional power, was at most a small tribal kingdom. And it will come as an unpleasant shock to many that the God of Israel, YHWH, had a female consort and that the early Israelite religion adopted monotheism only in the waning period of the monarchy and not at Mount Sinai.

          Most of those who are engaged in scientific work in the interlocking spheres of the Bible, archaeology and the history of the Jewish people–and who once went into the field looking for proof to corroborate the Bible story–now agree that the historic events relating to the stages of the Jewish people’s emergence are radically different from what that story tells.

          As for your claim about Jerusalem, here is what the Ze’ev Herzog had to say about that:

          The picture becomes even more complicated in the light of the excavations conducted in Jerusalem, the capital of the united monarchy. Large sections of the city have been excavated over the past 150 years. The digs have turned up impressive remnants of the cities from the Middle Bronze Age and from Iron Age II ( the period of the Kingdom of Judea). No remains of buildings have been found from the period of the united monarchy (even according to the agreed chronology), only a few pottery shards. Given the preservation of the remains from earlier and later periods, it is clear that Jerusalem in the time of David and Solomon was a small city, perhaps with a small citadel for the king, but in any event it was not the capital of an empire as described in the Bible. This small chiefdom is the source of the title ‘Beth David’ mentioned in later Aramean and Moabite inscriptions. The authors of the biblical account knew Jerusalem in the 8th century BCE, with its wall and the rich culture of which remains have been found in various parts of the city, and projected this picture back to the age of the united monarchy. Presumably, Jerusalem acquired its central status after the destruction of Samaria, its northern rival, in 722 BCE.

        • MRW says:

          And here is Ze’ev Herzog on the existence of Palestine in the 12th C BC, and who the Israelites were:

          Moreover, the biblical description is unfamiliar with the geopolitical reality in Palestine. Palestine was under Egyptian rule until the middle of the 12th century BCE. The Egyptians’ administrative centers were located in Gaza, Yaffo and Beit She’an. Egyptian presence has also been discovered in many locations on both sides of the Jordan River. This striking presence is not mentioned in the biblical account, and it is clear that it was unknown to the author and his editors. The archaeological findings blatantly contradict the biblical picture: the Canaanite cities were not ‘great,’ were not fortified and did not have ‘sky-high walls.’

          The heroism of the conquerors, the few versus the many and the assistance of the God who fought for his people are a theological reconstruction lacking any factual basis. Origin of the Israelites: The conclusions drawn from episodes in the emergence of the people of Israel in stages, taken together, gave rise to a discussion of the bedrock question: the identity of the Israelites. If there is no evidence for the exodus from Egypt and the desert journey, and if the story of the military conquest of fortified cities has been refuted by archaeology, who, then, were these Israelites? . . .

          Israel Finkelstein, professor of archaeology at Tel Aviv University, has proposed that these settlers were the pastoral shepherds who wandered in this hill area throughout the Late Bronze Age (graves of these people have been found, without settlements). According to his reconstruction, in the Late Bronze Age (which preceded the Iron Age) the shepherds maintained a barter economy of meat in exchange for grains with the inhabitants of the valleys. With the disintegration of the urban and agricultural system in the lowlands, the nomads were forced to produce their own grains, and hence the incentive for stable settlements.

        • Mooser says:

          Jonah says: “Is the difference between monotheism and paganism clear to you?”

          Now, now, shouldn’t we wait for “eee” to weigh in on this? Doesn’t he have the final say on the Jewish religion, being Israeli, and all?

        • richb says:

          Not only did he want a final say on Judaism remember the comment was directed at me and thus he also wanted a final say on my evangelical Christianity. I am not a relativist. Facts are not constructed for my personal convenience nor are they contingent on my belief in them. Most evangelicals crave certainty. A popular evangelism technique asks are you 100% certain that you are going to Heaven. Since most evangelicals also claim that Scripture is 100% true down to the minutest historical or scientific detail it makes them very susceptible to unscrupulous manipulation. This is why they so easily fall for things like Intelligent Design because you have “experts” that confirm their belief in the inerrancy of Scripture against a modern World that introduces fear, uncertainty, and doubts.

          The same thing happens with Christian Zionist tours. They are told when they see the landscape that archeological evidence confirms exactly what is recorded in Scripture. It doesn’t matter which fact is confirmed but rather there are many facts that are done. This includes, by the way, confirming the historical claims of the New Testament. This happened so much there was some speculation that our guide was Christian. This illusion was shattered when he didn’t know a thing about ahistorical things such as the Parable of the Prodigal Son. Then they return saying how this was the most important spiritual event in their life because those nagging doubts are quelled all because the Israeli guides lie about the archeological evidence.

          The key difference between Christian and Jewish Zionists is as follows: The Christian Zionists care about the text of the Bible while the Jewish Zionists only care about the maps in the back, showing a United Monarchy from the River to the Sea. Israel has been lying about her borders now for over two and a half millennia.

          Here’s how to take the facts above and use it to be influential with evangelicals. Expose the double game the Hasbarists are playing. What will be devastating about what Jonah said is not where he disagrees with me but where he agrees. He only cares about establishing the Kingdom of David and if Scripture is a little exaggerated, meh. With evangelicals this is a VERY BIG DEAL. So instead of trying to convince evangelicals of the archeological truth show how much the Harbarists are a bunch of shameless liars by showing what they say to us as contrasted with what they say to them. Evangelicals are no different than any other person here. They hate to be lied to. Furthermore, you have people that already are shown easy to convert. Not only will they flip but they will flip hard like I did this year.

      • lyn117 says:

        And, it is pretty common for religious fanatics to try to use science to “prove” religious doctrine. Creation “science” being one of the best examples. So-called scientific studies of genetics of Jews are another field ripe with people trying to prove a religious belief, that Jews “came” from the Levant.” What they’ve managed to find is that European Jews do have some ancestry from the Middle East. However, they’re more closely related to southern French than to Middle Eastern populations. And what they leave out is that most people from around the Mediterranean have some ancestry from the Levant, for good reason, the Phoenicians whose sea-trading empire lasted for 1000 years established colonies all around the area. Saying Jews came from the Levant is as accurate as saying Sicilians came from the Levant. There’s no real evidence that such ancestors of European and North African Jews who came from the Levant were members of any Judaic sect when they left (unless you include pre-monotheistic paganism), there’s every evidence that the migration was voluntary. There’s also plenty of evidence that ancient monotheists proselytized extensively, at one time converting as many as <a href="link to of the Roman empire had converted to Judaism.

        • Charon says:

          Zionist genetic science has only proved the opposite of what what the results say. Classic example of spinning numbers to suit a purpose. Here is the thing… 2,000 years ago the world’s population was 150 million. Today it is 6.8 billion.

          That means that during the time of the ‘second temple era’ the population of the entire planet was 2.19% of what it is today. Why is this important? Because it means that no matter who you are or where you live, what your nationality or race is, we are all related to those 150 million people. Israel is as much as my homeland as it is to the Zionists. And I’m Irish.

          Even if you have a ton of ‘Cohen genes’ in your genome test, that still does not entitle you to any part of Palestine after being removed for millennia. Unless you never left like the Samaritans. Or for that matter the Palestinians, those same genetic tests prove they’re the descendants of the Levantine people who have always lived there.

      • GalenSword says:

        Reuse of gentilics or demonyms is hardly unusual in the European context, and Patrick J. Geary summarizes practice in The Myth of Nations, The Medieval Origins of Europe, pp. 118-119. His analysis applies at least as much to the term Jew (יְהוּדִי) as it applies to any European ethnic name.

        Conclusion: Old Names and New Peoples

        The fourth and fifth centuries saw fundamental changes in the European social and political fabric. In the process, great confederations like those of the Goths disappeared, to re-emerge transformed into kingdoms in Italy and Gaul. Others like the Hunnic Empire or the Vandal kingdom seemed to spring from nowhere, only to vanish utterly in a few generations. Still other, previously obscure peoples, such as the Angles and the Franks, emerged to create enduring polities. But whether enduring or ephemeral, the social realities behind these ethnic names underwent rapid and radical transformation in every case. Whatever a Goth was in the third-century kingdom of Cniva, the reality of a Goth in sixthcentury Spain was far different, in language, religion, political and social organization, even ancestry. The Franks defeated by Emperor Julian in the fourth century and those who followed Clovis into battle in the sixth century were likewise almost immeasurably distant from each other in every possible way. The same was true of the Romans, whose transformation was no less dramatic in the same period. With the constant shifting of allegiances, intermarriages, transformations, and appropriations, it appears that all that remained constant were names, and these were vessels that could hold different contents at different times.

        Names were renewable resources; they held the potential to convince people of continuity, even if radical discontinuity was the lived reality. Old names, whether of ancient peoples like the Goths or Suebi or of illustrious families such as the Amals, could be reclaimed, applied to new circumstances, and used as rallying cries for new powers. Alternatively, names of small, relatively unimportant groups might be expanded with enormous power. The Franks were the most significant of these. In the third century, they were among the least significant of Rome’s enemies. By the sixth century, the name Frank had eclipsed not only that of Goth, Vandal, and Sueb, but of Roman itself in much of the West.

        Probably no greater fraud has ever been perpetrated in the history of the human race than Zionism.

        It has corrupted many American Christians, who now believe that the theft of Palestine from the native population by racist genocidal Eastern Europeans represents a fulfilment of eschatological prophesy even though a more reasonable interpretation would equate the exiled Palestinians, who are the descendants of the ancient Judean population, with the population that needs to return with the coming of the Messiah.

      • GalenSword says:

        When I was an undergraduate at Harvard, the reaction to my first three hypotheses below convinced me that I probably had no future in Jewish studies.

        The hypotheses were:

        1. Classical Greco-Roman Judean and (convert) Judaic populations must be distinguished. Palestinians descend from the native Judean population while (convert) Judaic populations are the foundation of Medieval and modern Jewish populations.

        Hellenistic Judaism arises as a development of the Greek colonies planted in Palestine in the wake of Alexander’s conquests, for the descendants of the Greek colonists began to practice Judaic religion and then began to emigrate to Alexandria and other parts of the Hellenistic world to create the Greek-speaking Judaic Diaspora communities, which then sent funds to the Jerusalem Temple for sacrifices.

        Not only could Greek-speaking Judeans emigrating to the Diaspora find scriptural justification for taking pagan wives in the Book of Ruth, but the Book of Esther could also be read to rationalize proselytizing gentiles.

        The later Hasmoneans and the Herodians seem to have developed some awareness that Judaizing pagans increased the wealth and power of Kingdom of Judea especially if the Kings of Judea came to be perceived by Romans and Greeks as the Judaic Kings and if the Diaspora Judaic populations could be persuaded to send contributions to the Jerusalem Temple.

        According to the Latin texts, the title of the ruler of Judea develops from Rex Iudaeae (King of Judea) to Rex Iudaeus (Judean King) and finally to Rex Iudaicus (Judaic King).

        The Gospels indicate another possible title. Jesus is called Jesus Nazarenus, Rex Iudaeorum (Ἰησοῦς ὁ Ναζωραῖος ὁ βασιλεὺς τῶν Ἰουδαίων), which means Jesus the Nazarene King of the Judeans.

        An expansion of the Greek-speaking Diaspora dovetailed with road and port building within Judea as well as

        * with the expansion of the Temple complex,

        * with the earliest beginnings of a Judaic trade network connecting the Greco-Roman Judaic communities to those of the Persian-Aramaic regions , and

        * with the development of the intellectual culture of Ioudaismos that could either rival or complement Hellenismos.

        John 4:22 might be an oblique or garbled reference to Judaic proselytization.

        ὑμεῖς προσκυνεῖτε ὁ οὐκ οἴδατε· ἡμεῖς προσκυνοῦμεν ὃ οἴδαμεν, ὅτιἡ σωτηρία ἐκ τῶν Ἰουδαίων ἐστίν.


        Ye worship ye know not what we know what we worship for salvation is of the Jews

        I think there is a material difference in Greek between

        ὅτι ἡ σωτηρία ἐκ τῶν Ἰουδαίων ἐστίν (Septuagint)
        for salvation is from the Jews (KJV: of the Jews)


        ὅτι ἡ σωτηρία τοις Ιουδαίοις ἐστίν
        for salvation is to/for/of the Jews

        The later is more consistent with Septuagint conceptualization and phraseology.

        Here is a use of σωτηρία (salvation) from Obadiah.

        1:17 ᾿Εν δὲ τῷ ὄρει Σιὼν ἔσται ἡ σωτηρία, καὶ ἔσται ἅγιον· καὶ κατακληρονομήσουσιν ὁ οἶκος ᾿Ιακὼβ τοὺς κατακληρονομήσαντας αὐτούς.

        But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance and there shall be holiness and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions

        Esther 4:14 provides a grammatical construction that should be compared with John 4:22.

        ὡς ὅτι ἐὰν παρακούσῃς ἐν τούτῳ τῷ καιρῷ ἄλλοθεν βοήθεια καὶ σκέπη ἔσται τοῖς ιουδαίοις σὺ δὲ καὶ ὁ οἶκος τοῦ πατρός σου ἀπολεῖσθε καὶ τίς οἶδεν εἰ εἰς τὸν καιρὸν τοῦτον ἐβασίλευσας
        For if thou altogether holdest thy peace at this time, then shall there enlargement and deliverance arise (will be) to the Jewsfrom another place; but thou and thy father’s house shall be destroyed: and who knoweth whether thou art come to the kingdom for such a time as this?

        In other words John 4:22 can be read to suggest that Judeans are bringing salvation to non-Judeans and are not merely the beneficiaries of salvation, which is the more usual Old Testament/Hebrew Bible conceptualization. (According to the normal Christian interpretation Jesus is referring to himself.)

        If Judaic proselytization targeted gentiles as Romans and Greeks seemed to believe, the apostle Paul had good reason to reject requiring a pagan to practice Judaism before he became a follower of Jesus because a gentile convert to Judaism might join a Judaic community and never take the final step to Christianity. (The subtext of the Paul’s disagreement with other early Judean Christians may have been economic. The Jerusalem church under the control of Jesus’ family was running out of money.)

        Thus Hasmonean and Herodian period Judaic proselytization

        * may haved served as a model or competitor for early Christian missionaries and

        * may also have made it possible to reconstruct Judaism in the Diaspora after Second Temple Judaism is shattered in Judea with the crushing of the Bar Kokhba Rebellion.

        Constantinian Christianity crystallizes in the 4th century. Islam seems to be a reaction among some Judaic and Judean Christians to “idolatrous” ideas incorporated in Christianity while Rabbinic Judaism crystalizes at least in part as a reaction to the growth of Islam.

        2. Peripheral Romano-Frankish, Romano-Arabic, and Turko-Slavic populations constructed the Medieval world.

        Romano-Franks created the Medieval Christian West.

        Romano-Arabs created the Medieval Islamic East.

        Turko-Slavs and the last Geonim created the Medieval Jewish trade networks, (a) which were the “territory” of Medieval Rabbinic Judaism and (b) without which the Medieval world did not function economically.

        For a long period the Medieval Jewish trade networks were the main source of Slavic slaves, who played such a large role throughout Medieval Europe and Islam that many modern languages still use derivatives of the word slav to mean slave.

        As a corollary to this Jewish slave trade, many Jews went into medicine because Jewish slave dealers needed to make sure that their “stock” was in reasonably good health.

        Because purchases of slaves often had to be financed, the Jewish slave trade also gave a big incentive to the development of Jewish lending and banking businesses.

        3. Nineteenth century Jews inherited a superior form of social networking from the international Jewish trade networks of the Middle Ages.

        Even though pre-modern forms of Jewish business activity were in decline since the late 18th century, the associated Jewish networks of trust increased in size and cohesiveness with the development of international telecommunications technology and the growth of the associated international media industries in the 19th century.

        At the same time, (1) because Jewish population was growing rapidly, (2) because many traditional Jewish economic niches had become obsolete, and (3) because more non-Jews had begun to enter traditionally Jewish types of business, Jewish social networks were becoming more aggressive and often tried to establish effectively exclusive claim to new economic sectors.

        Increasing numbers of non-Jews began to view Jews as economic cheaters, and despite self-serving Jewish efforts to blame Christianity for rising hostility toward Jews (in an era of declining religious belief!), classic late 19th anti-Semitism was really a response to the growing effectiveness of Jewish social networking and can be primarily attributed to antisocial Jewish behavior associated with certain aspects of economic modernization and technological innovation that advantaged the Jewish meta-population.

        4. Political science and the historical discussion of the nature of the nation are too restrictive because they assume that the elemental nation-state must be consolidated on the basis of a territory and language.

        From the early 19th century onward Jewish communities undergo a process of virtual national consolidation on a foundation with two key components.

        The first component consisted of the remnants of pre-modern Jewish trade networks that had been constructed around a common faith requiring a commitment to Jewish sacred law. Jewish sacred law (or Halakhah) provided a uniform commercial code that regulated Jewish networks of trust in mercantile and financial industries.

        The second component was a new national consciousness associated with the new idea of a Jewish Volk that must take possession and control of Palestine even if the vast majority of Jews never migrate there.

        Evolving (and somewhat different) political and economic interests of Western, Central and Eastern European Jews worked together to create the Zionist Virtual Colonial Motherland

        (1) that partnered with the UK and

        (2) that managed the New Settlement and now the State of Israel as a colonial dependency.

        Since the end of the British Mandatory, the Zionist colonial system has evolved into a vastly profitable mostly financial empire that has rendered the US government an intimidated and dependent client state within an extremely flexible imperial system.

        • annie says:

          When I was an undergraduate at Harvard, the reaction to my first three hypotheses below convinced me that I probably had no future in Jewish studies.

          it sure as heck made for an interesting comment.

        • john h says:

          What a superb way to sum Zionism up, GalenSword!!

          Probably no greater fraud has ever been perpetrated in the history of the human race than Zionism.

          It has corrupted many American Christians, who now believe that the theft of Palestine from the native population by racist genocidal Eastern Europeans represents a fulfilment of eschatological prophesy…

          Since the end of the British Mandatory, the Zionist colonial system has evolved into a vastly profitable mostly financial empire that has rendered the US government an intimidated and dependent client state within an extremely flexible imperial system.

        • john h says:

          Behold, all people, those are some of the greatest successes/disasters of Zionism.

          They and others will one day be but a footnote of history, as is Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, and apartheid South Africa.

        • dimadok says:

          What a pile of pseudo- intelectual manure!!! And to add to the insult- the use of ” when I was an undergraduate at Harvard”. Perhaps you should’ve taken more classes or spend more time reading at Widener,rather than burning your brain with some theories of lesser value than fairy tales and King Arthur stories.
          Several points to that:
          Iraqi Jews and Iranian Jews.
          Yemenite Jews
          Wide Antisemitic incidents across 2000 years of modern history, and not at the end of 19th century!

      • hophmi says:

        Thank you, Joachim Martillo. Your brand of anti-Jewish nonsense is nothing new. Today you prove that a Harvard education is not proof of intelligence. And I have little doubt that is who you are.

        Anyone here who can read blatantly anti-semitic tripe like this:

        ” Increasing numbers of non- Jews began
        to view Jews as economic cheaters, and
        despite self-serving Jewish efforts to
        blame Christianity for rising hostility
        toward Jews (in an era of declining
        religious belief!), classic late 19th anti-
        Semitism was really a response to the
        growing effectiveness of Jewish social
        networking and can be primarily
        attributed to antisocial Jewish behavior
        associated with certain aspects of
        economic modernization and
        technological innovation that
        advantaged the Jewish meta-

        and fail to condemn it is a bigot.

        • dahoit says:

          Harvard education doesn’t mean intelligence?Very astute statement as most of our and Israels leaders,and most of our puppets overseas,went to the Poison Ivy League,a Ziofactory of Lilliputians and poison fruit.

        • Chaos4700 says:

          Would I get my post through as easily as hophmi and dimmy got through if I slandered Galen as an anti-Semite too? My first post got bounced.

        • Cliff says:

          He’s not anti-Jewish.

          You and your band of cronies ARE anti-social and hate non-Jews. We see it everyday here when you make these ridiculous VAGUE spurious arguments (‘the report/the UN/the court/the resolution/etc ignores the complexities of Israel’s situation fighting a enemy embedded in civilian population/ fighting radical Islam/ blah blah blah).

    • American says:

      “Zionists are almost pitiable, for they are so ashamed of their own history that they have usurped one belonging to another people.”

      I don’t think the zionist have ever really felt shame.
      I see this is part of their ongoing effort to “create” or ” position” the Jews as one, if not the, “greatest Civilization of the world”. ..goes along with their “peoplehood’ and chosenness and so forth. They are morphing their story from ancient “tribe” to ancient “civilization”. But is going to be hard to make a case for that out of only 70 years of a Jewish kingdom in Palestine. It’s not like they had a actual ‘civilization’ for 1000′s of years or centuries like Arabs or Persians or Greeks or civilizations like China and all it’s dynasties.
      What the pity is, is that zionist deliberately try to tear down others civilizations and histories in an effort to make themselves look like somebody.
      I guess they never returned all the stolen antiquities from Iraq that Miller and Harold Rhode stole did they? The US was suppose to be working on getting Israel to return them but I doubt much effort has gone into that.

    • richb says:

      Here’s some scientific teeth behind the issue of founder population.

      link to

      The Two Common Mutations Causing Factor XI Deficiency in Jews Stem From Distinct Founders: One of Ancient Middle Eastern Origin and Another of More Recent European Origin
      Hava Peretz, Avital Mulai, Sali Usher, Ariella Zivelin, Avihai Segal, Zahavi Weisman, Moshe Mittelman, Hannah Lupo, Naomi Lanir, Benjamin Brenner, Ofer Shpilberg, and Uri Seligsohn
      + Author Affiliations

      1 From the Institute of Thrombosis and Hemostasis, Department of Hematology, Chaim Sheba Medical Center, Tel-Hashomer, Israel; the Chemistry Laboratory, Sourasky Tel-Aviv Medical Center, Tel-Aviv, Israel; the Rosh-Haayin Outpatient Clinic, Rosh-Haayin, Israel; the Department of Medicine, Hasharon Medical Center, Petah-Tiqua, Israel; and the Thrombosis and Hemostasis Unit, Rambam Medical Center, Haifa, Israel.

      Previous studies showed that factor XI (FXI) deficiency commonly observed in Ashkenazi Jews is caused by two similarly frequent mutations, type II (Glu117stop) and type III (Phe283Leu) with allele frequencies of 0.0217 and 0.0254, respectively. In Iraqi Jews, who represent the ancient gene pool of Jews, only the type II mutation was observed with an allele frequency of 0.0167. In this study we sought founder effects for each mutation by examination of four FXI gene polymorphisms enabling haplotype analysis in affected Jewish patients of Ashkenazi, Iraqi, and other origins and in Arab patients. Initial population surveys of 387 Middle Eastern Jews (excluding Iraqi Jews), 560 North African/Sephardic Jews, and 382 Arabs revealed allele frequencies for the type II mutation of 0.0026, 0.0027, and 0.0065, respectively. In contrast, the type III mutation was not detected in any of these populations. All 60 independent chromosomes bearing the type III mutation were solely observed in Ashkenazi Jewish patients and were characterized by a relatively rare haplotype. All 103 independent chromosomes bearing the type II mutation in patients of Ashkenazi, Iraqi, Yemenite, Syrian, and Moroccan Jewish origin and of Arab origin were characterized by another distinct haplotype that was rare among normal Ashkenazi Jewish, Iraqi Jewish, and Arab chromosomes. These findings constitute the first example of a mutation common to Ashkenazi Jews, non-Ashkenazi Jews, and Arabs and are consistent with the origin of type II mutation in a founder before the divergence of the major segments of Jews. Our findings also indicate that the type III mutation arose more recently in an Ashkenazi Jewish individual.

      In English it says that Middle Eastern Jews and Arabs had a common founder. The reason why it appears that Jews are distinct genetically is the focus on Ashkenazi Jews that due to cultural and religious reasons had huge genetic bottleneck effects which in turn caused large amounts of genetic drift. This is the primary reason why such Jews suffer disproportionately from genetic diseases such as Tay-Sachs.

  7. richb says:

    I recently talked about the City of David but there’s another archeological site that’s been politicized and that’s Tel Meggido. (You cannot go on a Christian Zionist tour without going to Armeggedon!) When you go to the visitor’s center you see the following of Tel Meggido from Solomon’s time.

    link to

    What you don’t see in the still picture is a slice of the model moves to show what it looks like now. The archeologists that predated the Israelis dug through multiple layers to the Canaanite inhabitants. This means explaining the digging to the level of the Canaanite gate.

    link to

    The big interest is the so-called stables of Solomon because the Biblical account. (1 Kings 4:26 and 9:19) This account noted four thousand stalls for chariot horses. So in order to help the imagination the following sculpture is there:

    link to

    First let’s look at the Biblical account and then look at the site:

    1 Kings 9

    15 Here is the account of the forced labor King Solomon conscripted to build the LORD’s temple, his own palace, the terraces,[f] the wall of Jerusalem, and Hazor, Megiddo and Gezer. 16 (Pharaoh king of Egypt had attacked and captured Gezer. He had set it on fire. He killed its Canaanite inhabitants and then gave it as a wedding gift to his daughter, Solomon’s wife. 17 And Solomon rebuilt Gezer.) He built up Lower Beth Horon, 18 Baalath, and Tadmor[g] in the desert, within his land, 19 as well as all his store cities and the towns for his chariots and for his horses[h]—whatever he desired to build in Jerusalem, in Lebanon and throughout all the territory he ruled.

    As I stated previously the supposedly massive palaces were a disappointment in Jerusalem. I’ve been to Italy so I know what ancient runes look like from an advanced ancient civilization. We also have archeology from the Roman, Canaanite, and during the time of King Ahab in Israel and even on this very site. Everything points to Solomon being a minor chieftain. So, let’s see these wondrous stables of Solomon!

    link to
    link to

    There’s another problem. The Israeli guide goes on and on about Solomon and the tie into the Bible. If you go to Israel’s tourism bureau’s web site then you see this description:

    link to

    “… sites include the stables from Ahab’s time”

    What??!? Yes, these stables have been dated to Ahab’s time. Other things at the site from the time of Ahab includes a very impressive water works. But Ahab is a bad boy of the Bible. The story that is being sold to the Christian Zionists is there was this huge golden age but the archeology doesn’t support it. It does support an advanced Canaanite civilization before David and Solomon and a respectable one after. The only time the Jews had a “great” civilization was when they were under Roman occupation. That was where the archeology was truly impressive. It doesn’t stop the propaganda from spewing forth, though, because it doesn’t — surprise, surprise — support the Zionist narrative.

    • MHughes976 says:

      ‘Religious Diversity in Ancient Israel’ recently edited by Francesca Stravrakopoulou and John Barton is a very up to date summary of views not too popular with Zionists. Francesca did a television series a few years ago maintaining that Samaria, not Jerusalem, was the true capital of Palestine and the leader of its civilisation in the ninth century. The remains are certainly very substantial compared with those in Jerusalem, though Jerusalem of course has been reconstructed many times since those ancient days. See the Oxford History of the Biblical World for a more ‘moderate’ view.
      Identifying buildings as gates, stables etc. is of course extremely speculative yet massively indulged in. The entirely reasonable doubts about the deeply linked trio of great kingdom, great city and great temple that have emerged are reprehensibly ignored.
      Just to mention to O Farmer, whose remarks are often of great value to us, that the Scrolls themselves have never been under effective Israeli or Jewish control. They have always been in Catholic hands, first with Roland de Vaux and later with John Strugnell, who was the first (in the 80s) to grant access to Jewish scholars. Strugnell lost his job because of his extremely negative views of Judaism to which on at least one occasion he gave voice after too much beer. Obviously there was a fear that something that could be interpreted as highly discreditable to Jesus – what if ‘someone of that name’ had been expelled from the Qumran community, allegedly for taking too much beer? – might emerge. This did not happen. It had of course been clear for a long time that the Qumraners held scornful feelings about Pharisaic Judaism, a religion for ‘seekers after smooth things’. This could be taken in stride as sectarian vituperation.

      • MHughes976 says:

        De Vaux, I think, would not, because of his political sympathies, cooperate with the Israeli authorities and this led to a stoppage in Scroll publications until Pierre Benoit took over in 1972. The Scrolls were still in Catholic hands – it was not for some time, around 1980, that Israeli scholars, notably Emanuel Tov and Elisha Qimron, became involved. I may have exaggerated Strugnell’s role in bringing them in, but certainly Strugnell, who has been much vilified, cooperated with Israeli colleagues and produced work in collaboration with them. He was by all accounts a linguist of the highest quality and his work continued to be used after his removal.
        The Scrolls’ mainly Catholic editorial group and the Israel Antiquities Authority both took a very restrictive attitude towards publication, officially for fear that half-qualified people would seize on bits and pieces of text and produce irresponsible interpretations. The question of personal copyright for fragments of text deciphered by particular individuals has also arisen.
        Of course the fear of irresponsible interpretations could be regarded as fear of interpretations that were merely unorthodox.
        The Eerdman’s Bible Commentary has a good summary of the actual implications of the Scrolls. To my mind, the Scrolls do make clear how fluid was the Tanakh text of the time, how important the apocryphal and Enochic texts were, how familiar within Judaism the Greek language was, how unpopular the Jerusalem religious elite was in some Jewish circles. I bet they don’t mention much of any of this when official exhibitions of the Scrolls are mounted ‘for the geese’.

        • MHughes said: “Samaria, not Jerusalem, was the true capital of Palestine and the leader of its civilisation in the ninth century.”

          Right. And after a few centuries the capital moved and Jerusalem became and remained the true capital of Eretz Yisroel.

        • Cliff says:

          Jerusalem is not the capital of Israel and there is no Eretz Israel you settler goon.

        • Chaos4700 says:

          So what is your attitude toward the Jewish military taking control of the city, first partly, then totally, when international mandate was to make it an international city, not a home exclusively for Jewish nationalists?

        • mandate n. 1) any mandatory order or requirement under statute, regulation, or by a public agency. 2) order of an appeals court to a lower court (usually the original trial court in the case) to comply with an appeals court’s ruling, such as holding a new trial, dismissing the case, or releasing a prisoner whose conviction has been over-turned. 3) same as the writ of mandamus, which orders a public official or public body to comply with the law. (See: mandamus, writ of mandate)

          The UN Resolution of November 1947, which called for two States, one Jewish and one Arab, with Jerusalem internationalized, was as recommendation only and not a mandate.
          The Arabs laid siege to Jerusalem in early 1948 and tried unsuccessfully to starve out the Jews. Later in 1948 Jordan invaded the eastern portion of Jerusalem and claimed sovereignty.
          Not until 1967 did Israel attack and seize Jordanian-occupied Jerusalem. Jordan had been warned repeatedly not to attack Israel during the Six Day War but she persisted in bombing Israeli air bases and so Israel attacked and threw Jordan out of the ‘West Bank’. Immediately after her victory over the Arab States, Israel offered to give back the Golan and Sinai in exchange for a written peace agreement. Israel also tried to give the ‘West Bank’ to the Arabs in the form of an autonomous region or a ‘statelet’. The government of Israel searched for ‘West Bank’ peace partners willing to self-govern themselves but could find no takers.

          So it is clear that Israel never wanted to permanently occupy Sinai, the Golan or the West Bank, but in the absence of peace partners, she came to occupy these lands by default.

        • Chaos4700 says:

          So you’re saying you reject the UN resolution? That Israel exists in defiance of the UN resolution that authorizes its existence? Deliberately so?

        • dahoit says:

          Starve out the Jews?What, with Harry Truman and an American airlift ready to rescue them?C,mon man.
          The Israelis keep searching for that peace partner who will give them the store,but their total embarrassment of the PLO aint bringing that about,and is making Hamas stronger.
          Overweening pride begets a fall.
          Ludicrous speed.

        • pjdude says:

          impossible as the city of Jerusalem was never in the kingdom of Israel. and their is no land of Israel its abs term used by religious fanatacs like your self so you can feel you have a legit claim when you have none.

        • pjdude says:

          So it is clear that Israel never wanted to permanently occupy Sinai, the Golan or the West Bank, but in the absence of peace partners, she came to occupy these lands by default. bullshit Israel wanted to keep them forever. Israel is all stolen land. they gave back the sinai only under pressure from the UK and US and still illegally occupy the rest

  8. annie says:

    great graphic. Israel Antiquities Authority is responsible for carrying out the 1978 antiquities law. but this law extends beyond israel’s ‘borders’.

    “land” includes any part of any sea, lake, river or other water and the bottom thereof;

  9. libra says:

    PW: “P.S. I intend sympathy for the goose with this post. I find force-feeding of these animals a despicable practice.”

    Indeed, but could foie-gras be a metaphor for anything? An expensive luxury enjoyed by many wealthy (and perhaps every 20 year or so by some less well-off) so long as they ignore how it was made.

  10. lyn117 says:

    I guess I’m offended by perversions of “science” (if you call archeology science) as much as language. Note the recent attempt to call Phoenician script “paleo-Hebrew”

  11. mig says:

    OT, but beautiful video from ISS by NASA.

    link to

  12. mig says:

    Archaeologists criticize new bill for ‘politicizing’ Israel Antiquities Authority

    Sole vote against bill comes from MK Dov Khenin (Hadash), who charged that the bill’s ‘true purpose’ was to make it easier to add a political appointee to the post.

    The Knesset passed a bill in first reading on wednesday that would abolish a rule requiring the chairman of the Israel Antiquities Authority to be a member of the Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities.

    The bill, which will now go to committee for further discussion, passed by a vote of 30-1. The sole vote against the bill came from MK Dov Khenin (Hadash ), who charged that the bill’s “true purpose” was to make it easier to add a political appointee to the post.

    “The cat has been let out of the bag, to the degree that it was ever in the bag,” he said. “The field of archaeology in Israel is a sensitive field, and it is exposed to a powerful onslaught of partisanship and politicization. Instead of doing proper professional work, archaeologists are forced to prove political theses that prove that we were here, or that we were here first, or all kinds of political theses that can obviously be debated in the political arena, but to which archaeological science shouldn’t be subordinated.”

    Culture Minister Limor Livnat, however, denied that the law was intended to enable political appointments.

    The bill says that the authority chairman need not be a member of the Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities; he must merely be “a senior scientist in the field of history or archaeology.” However, the appointment must be made “after consulting with the Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities.”

    The explanatory notes to the bill say that the current law forces the minister to choose the chairman from among a very limited group of candidates, while in practice, there are many suitable candidates who are not members of the Israel Academy.

    But senior archaeologists claim the bill’s real purpose is to prevent the appointment of archaeologists identified with the left.

    In July, the heads of four university archaeology departments sent a letter urging Livnat to withdraw the bill. One of the signatories, Prof. Zeev Weiss of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, told Haaretz that the new law “could undermine archaeology’s academic freedom and its ability to operate free of political influence.” While he assumed a worthy candidate would be appointed this time, he said, “It could degenerate into people with a political agenda being chosen because of their agenda.”

    Another archaeologist from a different university termed the bill “inappropriate,” saying, “We’re getting close to being a Third World country. This really depresses me. I have no doubt the issue is political.”

    In addition to Weiss, the July letter was signed by Prof. Oded Lipschits of Tel Aviv University, Dr. Haim Goldfus of Ben-Gurion University of the Negev and Prof. Arthur Segal of Haifa University.

    link to

    • Chaos4700 says:

      You know, this politicized, mercenary “privatization” of archaeology is yet another feature that Israel shares with Nazi Germany. One notes.

      • One notes more evidence of Palestinians acting like Nazi archeologists.

        link to

        • Chaos4700 says:

          Oh, look, a neoconservative blog. All that Islamophobia makes me so very much more reassured, in spite of the clear and blatant evidence of Israel’s theft of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

          Wait a minute, that blog entry you quoted was posted barely an hour ago and you’re pushing it on us now so soon? Aw, did you write that? Don’t be shy, claim your work. :)

        • Cliff says:

          Your citation is a neocon, far-right, settler-supporting, Zionist blog.

          Completely biased and irrelevant.

        • Chaos4700 says:

          I noticed that one of the blogs on the blogroll for the article you posted is “The Jawa Report.” Do you read that one too, pz? I’m curious if you know what the “Jawa” reference is supposed to mean. I can explain it to you if you like, maybe it will put the blogs you are linking into better context. I’m sure all the young Jewish persons from North America and Europe are curious to know the code words and the lingo of your community.

        • At Chaos behest, I looked at the Jawa Report. It is the first time I ever looked at this link and it is too superficial to interest me.

          Beyond my son’s Star Wars collection, I have know idea what the Jawa reference is. I am in my fifties and well connected to both the North American Jewish community and to the State of Israel and I have never heard anyone use the term ‘Jawa’ before.

          So Chaos. Let me have it.

        • Chaos4700 says:

          It’s used to refer to Arabs by people who’s sites you reference (and apparently frequent.) “Jawa” in this context is a reference to Arabs the same way “kike” is intended to reference Jews.

          Are you proud of that too?

  13. Um…….anyone know when the Cowboys play Washington today?

  14. kma says:

    what does it matter, anyway? you can see human bones 10,000 years old in the archaeological museum in Jerusalem along with artifacts from older religions. I didn’t personally need to see it to doubt that the old testament is truth. does anyone?

    Muslims get hung up on this crap, too, but who cares? FREE PALESTINE anyway!
    free us all, please.