61 Responses

  1. MRW
    November 3, 2011, 12:08 pm

    Did they really put this up in the NYC subway, or is this photoshopped?

    • mikeo
      November 3, 2011, 1:26 pm

      It’s photoshop, but it’s a nice job ;)

      • annie
        November 3, 2011, 4:45 pm

        it’s an excellent job. i wouldn’t have known had it not been for the identical surroundings. whoever did this knows their way around photo editing.

    • Chaos4700
      November 3, 2011, 4:16 pm

      Someone should put this up over the actual poster.

      • Am_America
        November 3, 2011, 10:31 pm

        these would look great on an MCTS bus stop.

  2. chocopie
    November 3, 2011, 12:36 pm

    I wonder if that boy is really Palestinian, and if so, how the organization acquired rights to his image. Or maybe Zionists just consider Palestinians their property.

    • Avi_G.
      November 3, 2011, 2:46 pm

      I think the boy is Palestinian. You can see it in the facial expressions of the two boys. The boy with the kippah on the right has a facial expression that says, Come here you little sh*t. I’m the boss and I need you for a photo-op while the boy on the left looks scared and hesitant. It’s clear who is the colonized and who is the colonizer.

      • dumvitaestspesest
        November 3, 2011, 4:30 pm

        Oh ,stop it. This is silly. Kids are just kids. They are not evil.
        Adults can do evil to them, or make them evil in the long run, but children, per se, are innocent.

      • Avi_G.
        November 3, 2011, 4:56 pm

        dum,

        Lecture me on things you know, not on things you clearly know nothing about. And while you’re reflecting on your comment, go read Nurit Elhanan’s article. You might learn a thing or two.

        link to mondoweiss.net

      • dumvitaestspesest
        November 3, 2011, 4:59 pm

        I know something about kids, as well as a human nature.

      • dumvitaestspesest
        November 3, 2011, 5:37 pm

        I know about indoctrination probably better that you are.
        I know it from autopsy.
        Still, kids are inncoent. Kids need to be protected, taught what is wrong, and what is right.
        If they are not taught that ,then we (us)adults fail.
        And we do fail. Not only adults in Israel.
        Many adults/parents/educators in the USA, ( not only) as well.

      • Avi_G.
        November 3, 2011, 5:48 pm

        Israeli children are educated from a very tender age to see “Arab” citizens and “Arabs” in general as a problem that must be solved, eliminated in one way or another.

        link to mondoweiss.net

      • dumvitaestspesest
        November 3, 2011, 6:14 pm

        yes ,I know that Israeli children are being indoctrinated from the very early age. But they are no to blamed for it.
        The same like you can not blame the children in Africa who , by force, join the army and kill other people.
        You can not blame children, who do prostitution in Asia.
        Children are not to blame for that. We adults failed them.
        We fail them everyday.
        The world, in general, is a sorry place for them to be.
        Children do not have deciding power, they have no power at all.
        They are in the mercy of us, adults, adults, who are in the mercy of other “adults’s ” decisions. Do not blame children.

      • Avi_G.
        November 3, 2011, 6:23 pm

        Who said anything about blaming the children? I didn’t even use the word “blame” in my original post. You were the one to bring it into the discussion. And having re-read my post again, I don’t see how anyone could even read it as implying that I was blaming the children.

      • dumvitaestspesest
        November 3, 2011, 6:37 pm

        “The boy with the kippah on the right has a facial expression that says, Come here you little sh*t. I’m the boss and I need you for a photo-op while the boy on the left looks scared and hesitant”
        You put some “evil “thoughts in this kid’s , on the photo, head.
        That what upset me.
        Even, lets assume, even, if he thought something like this , adults are in fault for that.

      • Avi_G.
        November 3, 2011, 6:50 pm

        dumvitaestspesest November 3, 2011 at 6:37 pm

        You put some “evil “thoughts in this kid’s , on the photo, head.

        link to amazon.com

      • dumvitaestspesest
        November 3, 2011, 6:57 pm

        Oy. :)

      • dumvitaestspesest
        November 3, 2011, 8:11 pm

        children should not live like that. Never. But they do. Often.
        link to farm4.static.flickr.com

      • Elliot
        November 3, 2011, 10:30 pm

        Dumvita – you are too good natured. Avi makes important contributions to the site but the nasty string he posted against you is routine for him.
        Oy, indeed.

      • Avi_G.
        November 4, 2011, 12:49 am

        dumvitaestspesest,

        I’m actually enjoying conversing with you. As for the subject matter at hand, there have been several reported cases where Israeli Jewish parents refused to send their children to a daycare center/kindergarten the moment they discovered that the center accepted an Arab child (one single Arab child) to attend there.

        I think if you experienced life in Israel, with the education system, the type of rhetoric one hears on the radio, on TV, via educators in school, you would be surprised at the level of indoctrination that goes on, the level of normalized bigotry and stereotypes, from kindergarten all the way up to university.

        So, if you were a child, an Israeli Jewish child, and you found out your parents acted in the way they did about that daycare center, what would you conclude about Arabs?

        Now you may disagree with my assessment of the child’s facial expression in the photo above, but that’s what I saw when I looked at that photo. And the link I posted to Amazon was meant to give you an idea of where I was coming from with my assessment, or impression.

        You seem like an open minded person, very few commenters on Mondoweiss are open to exploring the world around them, be it in the fields of science, anthropology, psychology, sociology or languages, especially languages, I might add.

        You might agree that language is an important tool to understanding a people’s culture, their collective memory and symbols. The grammatical structure of certain languages can be an indicator into the speakers’ experience, history or even thought processes.

        And yet, did you know for example, that some Israelis who post here speak little to no Arabic? Yet, it is the second officially recognized language in Israel. These are the same people would have you believe that they seek to live with Palestinians, learn about them or — and this is the clincher — view them as equals. It’s a peculiar notion, to say the least.

        Ironically, it is Palestinians who by and large are fluent in Hebrew, the colonizer’s language. Historical similarities are as you most likely know available in abundance though, from Algeria, Morocco to the Congo and Sierra Leon.

      • dumvitaestspesest
        November 4, 2011, 8:58 am

        Elliot,
        Don’t worry, I can handle that.
        But thank you for the warning:)

      • dumvitaestspesest
        November 4, 2011, 9:17 am

        There is an old saying: “if you want to know the habits of the lion ,you have to enter his cave”.
        Knowing a foreign language is only an advantage, and I think it is a very good skill to possess. It is good that Palestinians know that.
        Based on my personal, modest “indoctrination experience” ,that I was submitted to as a child and youngster ,I can only say that it failed.
        Why it failed?? Mainly because my home and “personal network” was different than an official ideology/demagogy/brainwashing thrown upon me and my friends via school (only some teachers though) , mainstream media and some other socio-political outlets.
        So there was a big disagreement, big distrust and lack of cooperation.
        People, in general, did not fall in this mumbo-jumbo talk about greatness of communism and its leaders. They were laughing at it or getting pissed at it. No admiration though.
        It is interesting to see that in Israel ,a majority of people do seem to fall into this classical conditional response like Pavlov’s drooling dogs.
        They ‘ve been trained well.

      • dahoit
        November 4, 2011, 1:16 pm

        Sure;That’s why at the age of 5 I knew that the colored area of town was niggertown,that the old protagonist of eenie meenie was a nigger,and we all sang ” Spic and a Ginnie and a Wop(without papers ho ho) and a Jew,I hate niggers and I hate you.”
        Children are empty vessels filled with whatever their adults feed them.

      • dumvitaestspesest
        November 4, 2011, 3:03 pm

        In a way they are, although they do have their own, unique ,distinctive personalities. That’s a part of their beauty.
        Children naturally are, ( most of them at least) very good and kind. Did you see little kids at the petting zoo?? They pat and hold those little animals with such a care and gentleness. And this look of heavenly hapiness on their faces.
        Part of the “training”/breaking the spirit at Hitler-Jugend was killing/torturing the animals ,to which a young person was previously attached to it.
        Teaching children predjudice, how to hate, condemn,divide is a big crime against humanity. It leaves them crippled spiritually for the rest of their life, and it takes a lot of effort to change it.
        If people are raised with hate towards another human being ,nothing good comes out of it. Never.

      • proudzionist777
        November 3, 2011, 8:02 pm

        That’s some of the sickest ‘projection’ I’ve heard in a long time.
        Get some help.

      • thankgodimatheist
        November 4, 2011, 5:48 am

        “proudzionist777″

        What kind of person who picks such a sick name? Ah, yeah, a Zionist!

  3. Richard Witty
    November 3, 2011, 4:49 pm

    The dissenting poster advocates for the delay in mutual humanization.

    Israelis are people too, just people.

    The boycott for example is perceived accurately as more of the same treatment of Jews.

    Its not new.

    Pursue peace, reconciliation, as a means to justice, not war (even non-violent means) as a means to justice. It won’t result in justice, maybe victory, but not justice.

    • Les
      November 3, 2011, 5:01 pm

      How many are so brave as you to oppose the pursuit for justice while calling for the pursuit of peace (which Israelis spell “piece”) and reconciliation (which the Israelis call capitulation)?

    • Woody Tanaka
      November 3, 2011, 5:13 pm

      “The dissenting poster advocates for the delay in mutual humanization.”

      And the initial poster doesn’t??? What is making 20% of the population of a state into pariahs except dehumanization??? If 1 in 5 of the people in Israel are not Jewish, it is not, in any sense, a Jewish state, unless you don’t care about the minority. If the Israelis and their supporters want “humanization” then I say, “you first.”

    • Chaos4700
      November 3, 2011, 8:38 pm

      It’s just that Israelis are people who want to kill other people’s children and take their land out from under them, that’s all.

      Witty, Nazis were people too.

      • Am_America
        November 3, 2011, 10:34 pm

        when was the last Palestinian child’s throat slit with a knife? don’t act like the Palestinians are w/ out their sins. I would say that is closer to Nazi tactics than anything Israel has done.

      • annie
        November 3, 2011, 10:40 pm

        we do not know who committed that heinous crime but the chance it was the boys they finally arrested is null in my book..

        besides, one is an isolated crime the other is state sanctioned and we fund it.

      • chocopie
        November 3, 2011, 11:13 pm

        Israelis don’t bother with knives. They have guns so they just shoot Palestinian children. Sometimes when they’re in a good mood and feeling generous they kidnap them out of their beds and put them in prison.

      • Chaos4700
        November 4, 2011, 12:12 am

        I’m not about to blame the Palestinians for something that could only realistically have done by A) a settlement resident or B) an immigrant worker within the settlement.

        Sorry, “confessions” extracted by torture don’t persuade me.

      • lyn117
        November 4, 2011, 12:50 am

        “… I would say that is closer to Nazi tactics

        I guess you don’t count boarding up people in their homes for days without food or water before killing them by blowing up the homes, as the Israel did in its ethnic cleansing operations in 1948 as a nazi act. Or, lining up captive civilians against walls and gunning them down in mass as they’ve done on a number of occasions, or bulldozing people while alive in their homes, or shooting children for sport as reported during the recent intifada.

      • James
        November 4, 2011, 1:05 am

        i guess white phosphorous doesn’t count then?

        no one is free to cast stones here… if israel was concerned with children they wouldn’t be putting so many in prison, but alas the world has to know of the suffering of gilad, but is well trained to ignore the suffering of palestinians.. you don’t help change any of this either am_american..

      • dahoit
        November 4, 2011, 1:21 pm

        If the Arabs and Palestinians were that bloodthirsty the nascent state of Israel would have been nipped in the bud.
        And you can bet many rue their seeming error.

    • thetumta
      November 3, 2011, 8:38 pm

      “Nazis are people too, just people.” Well, that’s true as well. So what?
      “Pursue peace”, the only peace the Israelis are interested in is “the peace of the graveyard”, unless of course someone comes up with a development plan.
      Sounds like too much medication today Wittty?
      Hej!

    • libra
      November 3, 2011, 8:44 pm

      Richard, I’ve been reading some of your comments at 972mag.com and you can clearly do much better than this. When arguing with hard-line Zionists there you often write with clarity, realism and substance. Indeed there I have seen you recognise that time for the two-state solution is slipping away due to Israeli intransigence and continued settlement of Palestine. That’s quite a contrast to your insistence at MW that there must be a two-state solution simply because there is no alternative.

      In this context, you should check the website of the “SayYesToPeace” organisation. It is clearly a Zionist front which seeks to put all the responsibility on the Palestinians to make peace (you have to admire the chutzpah of the name). In doing so, it is simply seeking delay in order to pursue “Greater Israel”. Given the realism you show at 972, I really feel you should be much more concerned with the original poster if you want to save “the Jewish state”.

      • Richard Witty
        November 3, 2011, 9:21 pm

        I don’t believe that “colonialism” is an accurate descriptor of Zionism (maybe of likud, settlement expansionist Zionism), and that it is used as a name-call, more than for information.

        I hate it when I see it used in that light.

        Whereas, even if some of the proponents of piece are insincere, I prefer to pursue it, and if behavior conflicts with the sincere effort for peace, to name that accurately.

        This is a “which side are you on” juxtaposition, which to me is the wrong side.

      • libra
        November 3, 2011, 10:07 pm

        RW: “I don’t believe that “colonialism” is an accurate descriptor of Zionism (maybe of likud, settlement expansionist Zionism), and that it is used as a name-call, more than for information.”

        I don’t like describing Zionism in the context of Israel itself as “colonialism” either. I think this is quite misleading as it implies Israel is a colony of another country. The most obvious candidate would be the US, but this seems an inversion of the actual relationship. So I see Zionism as something rather different, perhaps unique from a historical perspective. However, given what it has become (perhaps inevitably) I do not regard it as a force for good in the world, indeed quite the opposite.

        That said, I do think Israeli settlements in Palestine (i.e. outside the 1967 borders) can be fairly described as Israeli colonies and I took the headline of the modified poster in this context.

        As regards sincere efforts for peace, I’m really not sure whether you really mean to decouple such efforts from justice. Is it not self-evident that there can be no long-term peace without justice? And is it not this that damns a “two-state solution” based on a truncated, gerry-mandered remnant of Palestine?

        Perhaps the only way to avoid the “which side are you on” question is to start seriously looking at the democratic single-state as the only realistic option.

      • chocopie
        November 3, 2011, 11:06 pm

        It is definitely colonialism. If you travel from Jordan into Palestine, you will be interrogated by Israeli officials (well, maybe not you, Richard, you’re chosen, but we non-chosen, not sprung from a Jewish womb) and your passport will be stamped by Israel. You will not get a “Likud” stamp in your passport. Stop blaming everything on Likud, it gets old.

      • lyn117
        November 4, 2011, 8:32 pm

        The U.S., Canada and most of the Americas were colonized by people from multiple places in Europe. There is nothing that says a colonial enterprise has to be a colony of another (single) country. If you insist, Britain absolutely qualifies as the colonizing country for Israel being as they invited the colonists, supported and protected them, and trained their militias until they were able to successfully break off.

      • eljay
        November 4, 2011, 11:12 pm

        >> I don’t believe that “colonialism” is an accurate descriptor of Zionism …

        Zionism inspired the establishment – by immoral and unjust means (“currently not necessary”) – of a religion-supremacist nation. 60+ years later, Zionism continues to drive this nation to destroy lives and livelihoods with its ON-GOING and OFFENSIVE (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder.

        Meanwhile, Zio-supremacist “humanists” quibble over just how to label this hateful ideology.

        Interesting.

  4. proudzionist777
    November 3, 2011, 8:12 pm

    Condi Rice confirms that Abbas twice rejected Prime Minister Olmert’s generous peace offer.

    Say yes to Palestinian stupidity and rejectionism.

    • dumvitaestspesest
      November 3, 2011, 8:28 pm

      and what was this Olmert’s “generous peace offer”??
      Something like: “we won’t shoot at you for a week,or less”?

    • Potsherd2
      November 3, 2011, 8:34 pm

      Try again, proudracist

      link to haaretz.com

      It seems that, far from rejecting Olmert’s proposal, Abbas was expecting to continue negotiations when Livni cut the ground out from under them.

      link to prospect.org

      Olmert himself wrote recently that his offer was “never formally rejected by Mr. Abbas.”

      • Chaos4700
        November 3, 2011, 9:16 pm

        Silly me. I should always assume the Zionist is lying. We should all know better by now. I’ve lost my patience for doing research nowadays. HuffPo burned me out. And anyway, about 20% of my posts, give or take, are blocked here, so why bother putting in the effort? I might as well leave it to people on the blog who aren’t being censored.

      • proudzionist777
        November 3, 2011, 9:32 pm

        Rice claims that Olmert’s unprecedented Israeli peace offer to the Palestinians was opposed by Tzipi Livni, who urged Abbas, head of the Palestinian Authority, not to endorse the offer.

        According to the report in Newsweek, Olmert told Rice:

        “I’ll give him enough land, maybe something like 94 percent with swaps. I have an idea about Jerusalem. There will be two capitals, one for us in West Jerusalem and one for the Palestinians in East Jerusalem. The mayor of the joint city council will be selected by population percentage. That means an Israeli mayor, so the deputy should be a Palestinian.

        We will continue to provide security for the holy sites because we can assure access to them,” Olmert said, according to Rice’s memoir. “I’ll accept some Palestinians into Israel, maybe 5,000. I don’t want it to be called family reunification because they have too many cousins; we won’t be able to control it.

        Rice told an aide, “‘Tell the president he was right about Olmert. He wants a deal.

        Olmert ultimately presented the map of his newly configured state to Abbas, who never pursued the offer despite two further U.S. attempts.

        The generous offer was made, despite Livni, and with the full backiing of the U.S.
        Abbas rejected it by never responding to it.

      • annie
        November 3, 2011, 9:43 pm

        i heard it from the horses mouth pz, olmert said he never let abbas inspect the map. he held it up from across a table. a week after i heard him speak i went to see the plo ambassador speak. he said they wrote up a list of questions and had it delivered to olmert the next day and they never responded. so what i want to know is, if the US was some kind of broker why didn’t rice do something about this? did she just listen to olmert and then go to sleep? did she make sure this offer was presented to the negotiating teams, did she offer to deliver abbas’s response? your scenario doesn’t make sense and olmert already traveled all over the country and told people he didn’t let him see the map because he didn’t want him to ask for even more land down the road. i know because i was there in the audience. he laughed about it like he thought it was a funny joke and the zionist audience laughed too.

      • dumvitaestspesest
        November 3, 2011, 9:44 pm

        Maybe he never really received it.

        “I’ll give him land…I have an idea about Jerusalem…
        I ”ll accept some Palestinians…. I don’t want….”. I, I, I.
        I’m the Law. I’m God.
        Aye. Aye.

      • Potsherd2
        November 3, 2011, 10:06 pm

        Livni was right in one thing, however. Olmert’s offer would never have gotten out of the Knesset, and both Livni and Netanyahu would have repudiated it even if Abbas had openly agreed to every jot and tittle.

      • Donald
        November 3, 2011, 11:52 pm

        More on that “generous offer”–

        Lawrence of Cyberia

        Be sure to click on the link at the bottom, explaining the significance of the 94 percent/6 percent.

      • annie
        November 4, 2011, 12:07 am

        thank for the link donald

        The key to creating these impoverished reservations is that Israel must directly annex those parts of the West Bank that – if relinquished to the Palestinians – would make their state a viable concern. In practical terms, that means:

        severing Arab East Jerusalem entirely from the Palestinians of the rest of the West Bank (because East Jerusalem is the economic powerhouse of the Occupied Territories, generating more than one-third of GDP, and is the key to economic viability for a Palestinian state). You do this by building a “Jerusalem envelope” or ring of settlements around the eastern edge of Arab East Jerusalem – like Gilo, Har Homa, East Tapiyot, Ramat Eshkol, and more than a dozen others – so that when you magnanimously declare you will settle for annexing “only” the settlement blocs you also happen to be entirely severing East Jerusalem from the rest of the West Bank. You didn’t really think the location of the major settlement blocs was decided by chance, did you?)

        annexing the Jordan Valley, which ensures the West Bank has no land border with the outside world, leaving it entirely dependent on Israeli largesse. (And seeing as the Jordan Valley is the breadbasket of the West Bank, annexing it also leaves the Palestinian reservations entirely dependent on Israel even for food).

        annexing those parts of the West Bank that control the Palestinians’ water supply (you do this by building major Israeli settlements – like Ariel in the northern West Bank – on key points for dominating the West Bank acquifer, so that when you magnanimously declare you will settle for annexing “only” the settlement blocs you also happen to be annexing the water supply they control; you didn’t really think the location of the major settlement blocs was decided by chance, did you?

        annexing those parts of the West Bank that allow the Palestinians meaningful territorial contiguity (you do this by building major Israeli settlements – like the largely empty but super-sized Maale Adumim, which extends from East Jerusalem almost to Jericho – at the narrow point of the central West Bank, so that when you magnanimously declare you will settle for annexing “only” the settlement blocs you also happen to be cutting the West Bank in two; you didn’t really think the location of the major settlement blocs was decided by chance, did you?)

        What this all looks like on the ground was first mapped out immediately after the Occupation began, with the Allon Plan of 1967 (click all maps to enlarge):

        sometimes it occurs to me some people think the rest of us are all so stupid we can’t figure this out on our own. of course everything would be different if perhaps certain people were really smarter than the rest of us. or if they could convince us they were. it so transparent what they are doing and have been doing for years and years. the rest of the link is really good too.

    • Chaos4700
      November 3, 2011, 8:37 pm

      Condi Rice also “confirmed” that our intel told us we were going to find nukes in Iraq.

      If a second-rate academic who spent her time in government concocting neoconservative schemes to invade and occupy other countries is your best source of information on the topic, then frankly, you’re boned.

      • dumvitaestspesest
        November 3, 2011, 9:01 pm

        So what happened with those “confirmed” nukes in Iraq??
        They mysteriously “evaporated” ,or somebody carried them in a small handbag to a different location? Probably to Iran?
        Yeap, soon it will be “confirmed” that Iran has them all.

    • Hostage
      November 3, 2011, 10:58 pm

      Condi Rice confirms that Abbas twice rejected Prime Minister Olmert’s generous peace offer.

      I’m reading No Higher Honor right now, and to describe it as overly self-serving would be a guarded understatement. In any event Haaretz reported that “Former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice’s autobiography indicates that former Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni undermined a potential peace agreement with the Palestinians during Ehud Olmert’s term”. link to haaretz.com

      So, say yes to Right Wing Zionist colonialism, stupidity, and rejectionism (and give credit where credit is due).

      Everyone knows that Olmert couldn’t deliver his own Foreign Minister, much less the approval of the Knesset or the Israeli public. Go argue.

    • RoHa
      November 4, 2011, 12:14 am

      “Condi Rice confirms that …”

      Seriously, do you believe the word of a person like that? She was a promoter of a totally illegal war, conducted against a background of lies. She told lies about 9/11. She told lies about Iraq. She told lies about the US policy on torture.

      Her lies supported the war that destroyed a country. Millions of people have been killed, maimed, tortured, and rendered homeless. Iraqi society has been shattered. The dust of depleted uranium causes horrific birth defects.

      All for a pack of lies.

      And she told them.

      If she is the best you can offer, your position is hopeless.

    • dahoit
      November 4, 2011, 1:26 pm

      Why would any thinking person believe what that loser bitch from Prada hell would say anyway?
      She’s an Obomba class citizen.Bootlickers for Zion.

  5. thetumta
    November 3, 2011, 8:42 pm

    Oh well, “Condi Rice” well there’s the fountain of truth. Thank God, we have Israelis such as yourself to explain the motivations of our corrupt politicians to us. You do know them well, don’t you.

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