Israel trades $100 million in frozen PA funds for nuke-ready submarine

Israel/Palestine
on 85 Comments
 
submarine032An Israeli Dolphin Class Submarine (Photo: photostudio.org)

This week, the German newspaper Welt am Sonntag reports Israel’s change in heart to release the $100 million in frozen tax revenue, was a result of Germany withholding the sale of a nuclear-capable dolphin submarine to Israel. Netanyahu stated the rationale for releasing the funds was a result of the PA halting their statehood efforts at the UN, and the lack of feasible reconciliation between Hamas and Fatah. However, the German report calls the release of funds a pre-approved condition to the submarine sale.

The submarine, the sixth sold from Germany to Israel this year, is the second time in recent weeks where Germany has used submarines to curtail Israel’s policies towards the Palestinians. Mondoweiss caught a few weeks ago, Germany using submarine sales to halt settlement construction in Gilo, East Jerusalem.  Israel has been purchasing submarines from Germany since 1999.
 

85 Responses

  1. flyod
    December 6, 2011, 9:14 am

    the transfer agreement lives

  2. dumvitaestspesest
    December 6, 2011, 9:15 am

    What a twist of history.
    Germany ,the country that caused bloody WWII ( not to mention WW1)
    is now the strongest country in beaten down Europe, that basically is building the 4th Empire (4th Reich) out of the remnants of the EU.
    In Europe, some openly say about new Dictatorship emerging under the lead of Germany ( France has something to say there as well).
    Israel, its Jewish population, that experienced the horrors duing WWII,out of the hands of Germans, now is the buddy buddy with its previous oppressor, and has ambitions to become another Emperor. The Emperor of the Middle East region.
    Those two ( former abuser and its victim) coperate quite nicely on how to take power over the world.
    As we can see, the Power, the willingness to rule, is not limited to the borders, race, ethnicity. It does know how to go above all of that ,when a major ,common goal unites them.

    • marc b.
      December 6, 2011, 10:06 am

      good points. i remember that many years ago jewish friends of my father refused to buy german cars because of the association of german industry with the holocaust.

      • Shmuel
        December 6, 2011, 10:12 am

        Avrum Burg talks about the transformation in Israeli attitudes to Germany – and how much simpler it should be to change Israeli attitudes toward Arabs – in Defeating Hitler.

        • Potsherd2
          December 6, 2011, 10:31 am

          Maybe Arabs should start paying $billions in subsidies to Israel.

        • Shmuel
          December 6, 2011, 10:40 am

          Maybe Arabs should start paying $billions in subsidies to Israel.

          Capital idea, after all their own dispossession has cost Israel (including “moral” reparations for “making us kill their children”).

          Burg was, of course, trying to make another point.

        • LeaNder
          December 6, 2011, 10:58 am

          Shmuel, I am watching dum vita’s comments about the European financial crisis for quite some time now. Admittedly I am not amused. Do you have the impression too, we caused the financial crisis in Greece, Italy, (Ireland? …) on our way to conquer Europe? The Forth Reich? I am wondering what he reads, the British Sun maybe?

          From a German perspective there is no other option than to keep the European Financial Union intact, precisely because of the Nazi period (or WWI/WWII). Or do you feverishly want the lira back? What I can see is that Britain similar to the US don’t like the idea of regulating speculation in any way. But isn’t that partly the origin of our troubles? …

        • marc b.
          December 6, 2011, 11:18 am

          lea, i’m not a proponent of the 4th Reich characterization, but Germany will undoubtedly increasingly influence EU policy. the silliest part of the whole current debate (not dumvita’s) is the continued reference to ‘the market’, what do ‘the markets’ want, relative to austerity measures, etc. Germany is in the relatively favorable position it is in today because it ignored the prevailing ‘market’ philosophy that, for example, promoted the funding a real estate bubble, securitization of debts, etc., whereas ireland, spain, and others followed market wisdom and encouraged the behavior that caused a burst bubble.

        • American
          December 6, 2011, 11:31 am

          Germany, for one thing, has stronger trade protection policies, hence their better economic position. Can’t blame a country for protecting their own industry first.
          I have advocated the same for the US.

        • MHughes976
          December 6, 2011, 11:33 am

          The Forth Reich would of course be under Scottish control.

        • Shmuel
          December 6, 2011, 11:36 am

          LeaNder,

          Dumvita’s perspective also strikes me as British-oriented “Euroscepticism”. Of course there is talk in Italy of “diktats from Brussels”, and the euro was never very popular in Italy in the first place (for mixed reasons, some good some bad), but people don’t seem to be blaming Europe as much as our own political and economic 1% (“la casta”). On the whole, I think most Italians consider Europe (and Germany in particular) a responsible, mitigating force, and the current bond-spread crisis largely the result of the collapse of confidence in a country run (and run into the ground) by our former PM. For years, Italians on the moderate left have been wishing that Europe would “save us from ourselves”. Now they got their wish.

          The main source of fear and resentment seems to be international banking (well-represented in our new government), with more than a hint of suspicion that the bond speculation that led to the collapse of both the Italian and Greek governments was intentionally orchestrated by these international financial interests, with the goal of co-opting the democratic system.

          My personal feeling is that the entire growth-based system should be scrapped, with a “return” to far more local economies, but for the moment, we seem to be experiencing the worst of all worlds. Although I must admit that it is a relief to see sober, intelligent people in power, at least pretending to be concerned with the welfare of the entire country, as opposed to the band of mafiosi, clowns and sycophants that preceded them. I have a lot more to say on the subject, of course, but I think this summary will do for MW.

        • Shmuel
          December 6, 2011, 11:56 am

          The Forth Reich would of course be under Scottish control.

          Aye!

        • marc b.
          December 6, 2011, 12:13 pm

          The Forth Reich would of course be under Scottish control.

          I can see it now, an inaugural rally in Edinburg, torches and tartan flags, but instead of Wagner’s ‘Die Meistersinger von Nurnberg’, the Bay City Rollers would kick it off with ‘Saturday Night’.

        • marc b.
          December 6, 2011, 12:18 pm

          the entire growth-based system should be scrapped

          yes, like balloons and tumors, inexorable growth isn’t well advised.

        • JohnAdamTurnbull
          December 6, 2011, 12:29 pm

          Germany has also avoided two or three real estate bubbles because most of its wage-earners are renters. They have no interest(!) in the speculative increase of real estate prices.

        • LeaNder
          December 6, 2011, 1:06 pm

          thanks Shmuel. I can understand why Italians possibly didn’t like the Euro, since maybe something similar happened over here in Germany. Colloquially the Euro was called Teuro, which suggested the Euro made things more expensive (teuer). Mainly in the food market, as far as I can tell. It seemed that the big companies couldn’t resist the temptation to raise the price in the process. But it’s quite a while back now. ;)

          But I have to admit I don’t miss the border controls and the diverse currencies and the exchange rates. Lira were always quite a challenge with their thousands and ten-thousands for almost nothing.

          I only hope that the wiser prevail, and that’s not the voices you’ll find in the yellow press.

        • dumvitaestspesest
          December 6, 2011, 1:30 pm

          Ouukaay , you are German ,so obviously you will defense your own tribe.
          My opinion is not only the same as some of the most wonderful British guys opinion ( Nigel Farage,, Godfrey Bloom) , but it is shared by a majority of people in Europe. Germany IS trying to overpower the Europe, and its using the falling down EU ,and bankrupt euro-currency to achieve it.
          THOSE are the facts ,whether you like it or not, whether you agree or not.

        • Theo
          December 6, 2011, 1:30 pm

          JAT

          You are totally wrong on this.
          17 million germans own their homes. Counting 4 persons in a family means at least 65 million of them live in their own, although less than 80 million germans are counted.

        • LeaNder
          December 6, 2011, 2:45 pm

          Germany is in the relatively favorable position

          marc, relatively, is the right choice.

          Germany’s economy depends to a large extend on exports, these exports in return depend on a stable spending power of the importing countries. Easy to see. China surely doesn’t want the US to go bankrupt.

          Plus we had a huge reform in social security and unemployment benefits under Schroeder, which obviously cut expenses, the main objective of the reform.

          The problem of Greece, apart from it’s tiny layer of super rich, and corruption, Greek friends tell me, may well be that they weren’t an industrial country when the entered the EU. Joining the EU meant abolishing import equalization tax, which obviously is a strategic advantage to more industrialized European countries, and bad for every country with a weak industry. (Are you listening American?) There is no need to deny that. Neither is there any need to deny that the German plus in exports mirrors the Greece deficit. In other words, had the Greeks had our gains they may not have had any problems, at least not now.

        • Citizen
          December 6, 2011, 3:57 pm

          Last time I looked over 50% of Germans rented.

        • Citizen
          December 6, 2011, 4:35 pm

          Yeah, Germany has retained its industrial manufacturing base–the USA shipped their’s overseas. Britain too, bought into the hyper propaganda about service industry power. Germans also were much less gullible to the notion of borrowing for everything. Example, most Germans want a fixed mortgage rate, so they can plan for the future. Americans went with variable rates, betting blindly on the come. The American Teaparty movement is Germanic in nature.

        • Theo
          December 7, 2011, 8:45 am

          When was that, 40 years ago?
          My information on 17 million home owners is from 2011!!

      • Citizen
        December 6, 2011, 12:02 pm

        During the 1970′s in Chicago Metro area, I remember meeting many WW2 Generation Jewish Americans refusing to buy German-made cars, including many of my in-laws–but the prestige of the Mercedes and BMW made their own children suckers; they were buying them like crazy as soon as their careers were established.

        • marc b.
          December 6, 2011, 12:22 pm

          the prestige of the Mercedes and BMW made their own children suckers

          i was told when i lived in germany that BMW stood for ‘bayerische mist wagen’ (bavarian dung wagon), loosely translated into the american ‘sh*t box’.

        • LeaNder
          December 6, 2011, 2:48 pm

          my favorite is SAAB, I hope it will survive.

        • Citizen
          December 6, 2011, 4:00 pm

          Well, most of the Jewish young careerists actually went for Mercedes in the 1970s time frame I mentioned. The old Jews went for Cadillacs. Now I guess those are for Chinese rich. GM too sells more cars to China than in the US

        • Citizen
          December 6, 2011, 4:01 pm

          I had a 1991 hump-backed SAAB, the great car I’ve owned. But now SAAB is a piece of crap since the company was taken over.

        • Potsherd2
          December 6, 2011, 5:53 pm

          Hey, I had one of those in the 1970s! Loved that car!

    • flyod
      December 6, 2011, 12:50 pm

      per my post above, founding zionist groups had no issue in colluding with the third reich. certainly different circumstances yet there is a fascinating history. if you haven’t already done so read this book for the details;
      link to en.wikipedia.org

    • Theo
      December 6, 2011, 1:16 pm

      Jews and germans have many similarities:

      They both consider themselves better than the rest of the human race,
      both refuse to be assimilated in the country they immigrated to,
      both are above average intelligence and education,
      jews love to have german names, even in Russia or Poland or any other country.

      In other words watch out, you cannot have two alpha animals in a single cage, sooner or later they will be at eachothers throat.

      As far as the subs go. They are paid by the german taxpayers, are part of the reparation payments, at least the greater part of the costs.
      One must wonder, how long do the germans keep those payments up when the country has no money even for its own citizens.?

      • Citizen
        December 6, 2011, 1:42 pm

        Theo, in the USA, the Germans and the Irish are the most fully assimilated ethnic groups.

        • Theo
          December 7, 2011, 8:55 am

          Perhaps now, however before WWI they sure were not!!

          In eastern Europe they lived in those lands 100-150 years long, even after 5-8 generations did not speak the local language properly, had german schools, passports, clubs, etc.
          After WWII they had the choice either to leave or become local citizens. Many leaved, many stayed.
          Now they feel their oats again, they have german kindergardens, street signs in two languages, schools in german language.
          All this after 200 years in the country!!

          On the other hand, jews want their schools, kindergartens, etc. even after 500 years in the country.
          Do you see any similarities?

        • Citizen
          December 7, 2011, 11:37 am

          Theo, before WW1 is a long time ago. At that time, Germans and Irish Americans had already contributed more than their fair share to America. Read some history; and their large contribution only grew through both world wars.
          Also, you say, referring to Eastern Europe, ” After WWII they had the choice either to leave or become local citizens. Many leaved, many stayed.” To whom do you refer, the 2 million ethnic Germans who died and 15 million who were forcefully transferred to Germany, although they had lived in Eastern Europe for centuries? Or the tens of thousands who died in US & Canadian POW camps, for which Canada at least, has recently apologized for?

        • Theo
          December 9, 2011, 8:04 am

          Citizen

          Typing mistake, should be WWII.

        • Citizen
          December 10, 2011, 8:57 pm

          Please clarify your historical position, Theo. Thanks.

      • LeaNder
        December 7, 2011, 2:48 am

        Theo, wow, that’s a fascinating theory.

        Concerning the intelligence stereotype: Smart Jews: The Construction of the Image of Jewish Superior Intelligence, Sander L. Gilman.

        What looks like superiority to you, may be in fact be a disguised inferiority complex.

        Alfred Adler: “We should not be astonished if in the cases where we see an inferiority [feeling] complex we find a superiority complex more or less hidden. On the other hand, if we inquire into a superiority complex and study its continuity, we can always find a more or less hidden inferiority [feeling] complex.”

        You feel we have more than the average percentage of this personality type? Does it show in the mirror?

        Names, oh my! Concerning Germany:

        The Prussian king, Friedrich Wilhelm III, was enraged by a letter by Markus Lilie (lily). Markus Lilie a Prussian Jew asked the king politely if he could name his son Friedrich Wilhelm. The king hadn’t shown too much enthusiasm for the emancipation of the Jews, but this was simply too much.

        Finally he ordered, not to allow the Jews to have German names, since they if they adopted German names, they wouldn’t be recognizably Jewish anymore. This should be avoided as far as possible. Besides the Christian name could only be given to someone baptized.

        Which leads us to the last of your three items: assimilation.

        One year after the king’s order in 1837 Leopold Zunz published a book on Jewish names, stating that the Jews had always adopted the names of the people among whom they had lived. Thus, as far as names were concerned (or: onomastically) Jews already were well integrated.

        I do have a problem with the word “assimilation” based on this and other texts. What exactly does it mean?
        The names of the Jews, a historical survey.

        The Stigma of Names: Antisemitism in German Daily Life, 1812-1933

        The Austrian empire on the other hand followed French law. It didn’t allow names that “marked” people as Jewish. Unfortunately not always they could choose their name freely, some were given humiliating names, like Drinker or Mole. …

        • Citizen
          December 7, 2011, 11:49 am

          LeaNder, I have no clue what you are trying to suggest or say. Are you familiar with Peter Gay? link to enotes.com

          Also, the Jewish immigrant experience in the USA–how does it differ from the experience of so many immigrants of other ethnic backgrounds during the period in question? The Germans, for example, experienced the same thing.

        • Theo
          December 7, 2011, 1:11 pm

          LeaNder

          I have the feeling you read the wrong books.

          Take the case of the Nobel Prize winners. Although jews constitute only 2-3% of the western world, at least 30-40% of the winners are jews. (please do not hold me to this number, I will not waste time to research it, I guess they must be at least one third)!
          This certainly proves intelligence and dilligence on their part.

          As far as the austro-hungarian empire goes: I am very familiar with Hungary and Budapest and a great part of jews there have german names, such as Weiss, Schwartz, Gross, Klein, Goldman, Golden, etc.
          I have never met one who had a name like you suggest, Drinker, etc.
          At the end of the 19th century jews were asked to change their name to a hungarian sounding one, many did, but not all.

          That empire was made up of many different nationalities and there was a great dislike among them.
          If you think jews were discriminated, just ask a few gypsies and romanians.

          If you implying that I have an inferiority complex you are wrong!
          I am very dominant, however I accept the fact that I am not the smartest on this globe. Nor are you.

        • Woody Tanaka
          December 7, 2011, 3:09 pm

          Take the case of the Nobel Prize winners. Although jews constitute only 2-3% of the western world, at least 30-40% of the winners are jews. (please do not hold me to this number, I will not waste time to research it, I guess they must be at least one third)!

          This certainly proves intelligence and dilligence on their part.

          Not necessarily. It may simply be combination of a interest in the subject matter under examination by the Nobel Committee coupled with a cultural drive to excel in those particular areas joined by the circumstances of living in a society in which such achievement is potentially realizable.

          The winners should, no doubt, take pride in their accomplishments. Credit beyond them is dubious.

        • patm
          December 10, 2011, 9:43 pm

          Alfred Adler: “We should not be astonished if in the cases where we see an inferiority [feeling] complex we find a superiority complex more or less hidden. On the other hand, if we inquire into a superiority complex and study its continuity, we can always find a more or less hidden inferiority [feeling] complex.”

          The Prussian king, Friedrich Wilhelm II was a grandson of England’s Queen Victoria. In a well-regarded biography of QV (the name and author of which I can’t remember and can’t find at Amazon) suggested that had QV been kinder to Wilhelm II the Great War might never have happened.

          Wilhelm II had withered arm and was apparently “plagued with insecurities.” QV never invited him to go sailing at Cowes and there were other slights as well which I’ve forgotten.

          Excerpt from the “Oxford Companion to Military History: Wilhelm II”

          “Wilhelm II (1859-1941), Kaiser of Germany, Wilhelm helped lay the foundations for WW I, and in consequence gambled away his throne, bringing to an end the German empire—the Second Reich—established by his grandfather and namesake in 1871. His father, Frederick, had married Queen Victoria’s namesake daughter, which was probably the origin of his love-hate relationship with Britain (and his uncle Edward VII and cousin George V). Plagued with insecurities and physically fragile (he had a withered arm), he perceived his father’s liberalism as a weakness and resolved to rule with a firm hand. Had Frederick not died of throat cancer just months into his reign, he and Victoria might well have established a constitutional monarchy, which Wilhelm would have found difficult to undermine.”

          Read more: link to answers.com

  3. Chaos4700
    December 6, 2011, 9:19 am

    Cough Samson Option cough cough. What is Germany thinking, anyway? So much for taking a credible stand on sanction against Iran.

  4. tombishop
    December 6, 2011, 9:24 am

    Why does Israel need submarines? Grown men playing with war toys!

    • LeaNder
      December 6, 2011, 11:16 am

      It probably could use them concerning Iran?

      That’s one of the reasons why there was quite a bit of speculation surrounding the deal, but usually Israel gets what it wants: Dolphin Class Submarine. Basically concerning matters surrounding the military complex we are usually reduced to speculations, since these decisions are in the hands of the highest super secret circles in the Office of the Federal Chancellor.

      • Citizen
        December 7, 2011, 11:56 am

        Well yes, LeaNder, the Israelis are certainly planning on using those cheap German nuke subs to prowl around Iran waters–they’ve already done so. It’s called sending a message. All states who can afford to do so, do so. Israel can afford it because the US & Germany basically use their own taxpayers to fund Israel’s objectives. And, nobody will object here on MW if you add that it’s a profitable business for those involved, not so much for the average American or German taxpayer–both of whom by the way, will be bearing the weight of the Western world ‘s debt crisis.

  5. eGuard
    December 6, 2011, 9:24 am

    The gangway says it is a Dolfhin? I say that’s a Godwin.

  6. marc b.
    December 6, 2011, 10:05 am

    Netanyahu stated the rational for releasing the funds …

    rationale.

  7. Potsherd2
    December 6, 2011, 10:33 am

    I hope Germany will at least get PAID for the sub. If Germany goes bankrupt, we’ll have a lot more to worry about.

    • Theo
      December 6, 2011, 1:20 pm

      Those subs are the christmas present from the taxpayers of Germany.
      After paying for it they cannot buy anything for their own family.

  8. HarryLaw
    December 6, 2011, 10:36 am

    If this news story is correct it would be akin to a police force offering to give some bank robbers a reduced price police car no questions asked, if the robbers gave the bank back its money. Shameful.

  9. pabelmont
    December 6, 2011, 10:52 am

    If Germany REALLY made paying the taxes to PA a condition for selling the submarine (1/3 paid for by German gov’t I read somewhere), THEN IT ASKED TOO LITTLE. What about a stop to all construction of settlements, hunh? What about a ROLLBACK of all settlers and settlements? You know, something REAL? adn how come Germany is paying 1/3 the price when EU is dying the banker-caused death of 1000 Euros?

    • LeaNder
      December 6, 2011, 11:21 am

      pabelmont, there were in fact speculations about Germany trying to use the submarine to pressure concerning the settlements.

      Obviously Israel got what it wants, as always.

      • LeaNder
        December 6, 2011, 11:46 am

        how come Germany is paying 1/3 the price

        pabelmont, that seems a pretty good deal for the Germans actually. The first two were donated to Israel, the third was paid, which means we paid 2/3 so far, now only 1/3.

        • Citizen
          December 6, 2011, 12:24 pm

          First two were donated, the third was paid by half, this one to be paid by 1/3. German taxpayers think that’s a “pretty good” deal for them? Israel gets 2 for free, 1 at half price, & now another at 1/3 off? And for future, the Germans also get a bonus black eye for so supporting the oppression of an entire people? For financing yet another lebensraum policy? LeaNder, please explain this German mentality, if you can. Thanks.

        • Citizen
          December 6, 2011, 12:35 pm

          Well, here’s some information on the German regime’s mindset: link to defenseindustrydaily.com

        • LeaNder
          December 6, 2011, 7:11 pm

          Citizen, if I remember correctly, in the negotiations still unpaid reparation by East Germany to Israel somehow surfaced. The GDR never considered itself a heir to Hitler’s state, and thus paid no reparations.

          Besides, it’s fair to consider the “gifts” to Israel a hidden subvention of the shipyard HDW. I vaguely remember, they were in financial troubles. The employees in Hamburg and Kiel probably were pleased.

          And for future, the Germans also get a bonus black eye for so supporting the oppression of an entire people? For financing yet another lebensraum policy?

          If the US empire cannot stop the settlements how could the Germans of all people? I am assuming that was a rhetorical question. Or are you missing our occasional fights?

        • Citizen
          December 7, 2011, 6:30 am

          Thanks, LeaNder. Yes, those were factors. And yes, as somebody pointed out on this thread, and as revealed in my subsequent research, which I referenced, Germany has now done more than the lone superpower enabler US to curb Israeli bad conduct.

  10. BradAllen
    December 6, 2011, 11:00 am

    How about this headline “IRAN buys two Nuclear ready Subs”.

    Of course its false, but can you imagine the reaction from, well… everybody. IAEA would automatically call it a violation, the US would say it is a clear indication that Iran has or is working on Nukes, blah…blah..blah…well you know the chorus to justify attacking Iran.

    Why is no one asking the question < why does Israel need Nuclear ready subs if it doesn't have Nukes…. never mind, i know the answer…

  11. American
    December 6, 2011, 11:18 am

    I am usually the cynic but I see Merkel forcing Netanyahu to hand over the Palestine money for the Dolphin as a positive.
    To my knowledge it’s the first time Germany has demanded any kind of concession from Israel in return for anything Israel wanted.
    Looks like a huge, first government to government type of BDS to me.
    If the US would adopt a no play -no pay stance with Israel you would see some Israeli capitulation on I/P very quickly.

    • Potsherd2
      December 6, 2011, 5:19 pm

      It’s positive in a way, as it shows that pressure actually can be successfully brought against Israel – on some matters. If only more pressure could be applied.

    • Koshiro
      December 8, 2011, 10:14 am

      Note how severely underreported this was in the international media, especially in the US (as far as I can see from my Internet-centric view). Naturally. You don’t want people saying to themselves: “What? You can make Israel behave just by withholding some candy, I mean military aid from them? Without them throwing a temper tantrum? Why don’t we do that?”

  12. Dan Crowther
    December 6, 2011, 11:37 am

    Well, NATO is coming to the MED – big time. this is all part of driving the Russians out of the MED. Once Assad goes, the west will be more able to consolidate its power – Israeli subs will be part of this effort…….

    “Russia’s one and only naval base in the Mediterranean is at the Syrian port of Tartus. Not by accident, Russia has installed its S-300 air defense system – one of the best all-altitude surface-to-air missile systems in the world, comparable to the American Patriot – in Tartus. The update to the even more sophisticated S-400 system is imminent.

    From Moscow’s – as well as Tehran’s – perspective, regime change in Damascus is a no-no. It will mean virtual expulsion of the Russian and Iranian navies from the Mediterranean.

    link to atimes.com

    • Citizen
      December 6, 2011, 12:08 pm

      Yes, there’s no question the US has in motion its plan to create a little NATO for the ME; this will include the little gulf states & SA of course.

  13. HarryLaw
    December 6, 2011, 12:04 pm

    American, says “to my knowledge its the first time Germany has demanded any kind of concession from Israel in return for anything Israel wanted” I disagree this is not a concession it is returning money to the Palestinians which the Israelis had no legal right to keep back, it is not Israel’s money, so the submarine deal shameful as it is should be kept separate, in other words it is pure blackmail.

    • American
      December 6, 2011, 12:54 pm

      Harry

      Yes, Israel was illegally withholding the Palestine money…..but did you see anyone but Germany withholding anything from Israel unless they turned the money over to Palestine?
      Israel blackmails everyone, this time they got blackmailed back at least in part.
      I call that a first.

      Its not like the wimpy US last year offering Isr more money and arms to freeze settlement building and when Isr refused, giving it to them anyway 6 months later.

      • Theo
        December 6, 2011, 1:24 pm

        Do you see anyone in Washington who has balls to stand up against the pressure coming from Israel and forfeit on all those beautiful greenbacks coming from the zionist organisations and private persons?
        I do not!!

      • Citizen
        December 6, 2011, 1:44 pm

        You make a good point, American. Is Israel still getting those free F-35s?

  14. Kathleen
    December 6, 2011, 12:15 pm

    The US should be taking notes

  15. HarryLaw
    December 6, 2011, 2:57 pm

    I hope those submarines have the capability to cross the Atlantic.

  16. Citizen
    December 6, 2011, 4:05 pm

    Why is that, HarryLaw? They are descendants of the best submarines ever.

  17. HarryLaw
    December 6, 2011, 4:10 pm

    I think that those submarines are for a second strike capability against European capital cities, here is what Martin Van Creveld said “we have hundreds of nuclear warheads and missiles which can reach, different targets in the heart of the European continent, including beyond the borders of Rome, the Italian capital”. Creveld said, adding that most of the European capitals would become preferred targets for the Israeli airforce. As for the Palestinians, the historian said that Israel at the present time pursues a specific strategy based on mass deportation of the Palestinian people and has intentions to expel all Palestinians without exception, but is awaiting the right moment to take this step (interview broadcast by the 7th Hebrew radio station). Arn’t they nice people

  18. HarryLaw
    December 6, 2011, 4:15 pm

    I should have added Creveld’s warning was in the event of Israels imminent demise.

  19. Justice Please
    December 6, 2011, 5:50 pm

    On the one hand, I’m glad that one of those governments which normally don’t refuse Israels demands is finally using some leverage.

    On the other hand, I’m sad that the same government even thinks about selling weapons of mass destruction to a nation with very strong theocratic, racist and expansionist elements.

    I hate it that my German tax euros subsidize a military which runs amok, be it against olive trees or against unarmed aid workers in international waters.

  20. Gaius Baltar
    December 6, 2011, 6:02 pm

    And if and when Israel uses these subs to nuke another country, Germany will have on its hands the blood of the victims.

    Germany owes Israel nothing. It paid its debt in full long ago.

    • eljay
      December 6, 2011, 6:39 pm

      >> Germany owes Israel nothing. It paid its debt in full long ago.

      German never owed Israel anything to begin with.

    • Justice Please
      December 6, 2011, 7:03 pm

      Morally speaking, there never was a debt Germany owed Israel. Because whatever crimes the German government in collusion with many German citizens commited, they were commited against members of a vaguely defined group called “Jews”, among other victims.

      So Germany owes something to the targeted individuals and maybe their children. But it certainly owes nothing to any institution, be it a World Jewish Congress or a State of Israel.

      • RoHa
        December 6, 2011, 11:48 pm

        Does Germany owe a debt to my parents for bombing two of their houses?

        • Theo
          December 7, 2011, 9:05 am

          RoHa

          On the same rights how many iraqis, vietnamis, afghans, etc. can put claim to the USA?
          Besides, the US and british bombers did destroy a lot more houses all over Europe than the germans did, and not only in Germany.
          Do you know who dropped the bomb on the house of your parents?

        • Justice Please
          December 7, 2011, 5:00 pm

          @RoHa:

          “Does Germany owe a debt to my parents for bombing two of their houses?”

          In a world where every war crime gets punished this way, regardless of who commits it, yes. Assuming it was a war crime, of course.

        • RoHa
          December 8, 2011, 12:51 am

          “On the same rights how many iraqis, vietnamis, afghans, etc. can put claim to the USA?”

          Quite a few, I would imagine. And others would have claims on Australia, Britain, and sundry other countries.

          “Besides, the US and british bombers did destroy a lot more houses all over Europe than the germans did, and not only in Germany.”

          But I am working on the principle that the aggressor pays. That was the basis for the WW1 reparations, and that worked out just fine, didn’t it?

          “Do you know who dropped the bomb on the house of your parents?”

          I think his name was Friedrich.

      • Theo
        December 7, 2011, 9:01 am

        Germany never owned anything to Israel either legally or morally, because during WWII there was no such state as Israel.
        Germany owed reparations to the states it attacked and perhaps to individuals whose family was killed.
        The Holocaust Industry made sure that Israel pressed every drop of blood out of the germans and are still at it.

        • Citizen
          December 7, 2011, 12:01 pm

          Yep, that’s the advantage of having a nuclear armed state funded by the only superpower–a state that conflates all Jews around the world with its own Jewish citizens. The goys have not caught up with this sleight of hand. And even when they do, Zionist cash controls. Along with Western guilt. In futuro, China and India, and Brazil, for example will not be such easy prey for Zionists–and they keep growing in economic power.

  21. RobertB
    December 7, 2011, 10:21 am

    Israel Stole Uranium from U.S., Report Will Show

    By Kristin Dailey

    “December 06, 2011 “The Daily Star” — WASHINGTON: A U.S.-based research institute will soon publish what it says is “indisputable” evidence that Israel stole weapons-grade uranium for its still-undeclared atomic weapons program from a nuclear reprocessing plant in western Pennsylvania.

    The Institute for Research: Middle Eastern Policy (IRmep) will release this month a 300-page report detailing the initial findings of a multi-year research project investigating the disappearance of highly enriched uranium from the Nuclear Materials and Equipment Corporation (Numec) in Apollo, Pennsylvania in the 1950s and 1960s.

    Grant Smith, the director of IRmep, told The Daily Star that the report would include a broad range of newly declassified and un-redacted government documents from various agencies – including the Department of Energy, Atomic Energy Commission, FBI and CIA – that prove that nuclear material was diverted from Numec to Israel.

    “The story at this point is that there is no one smoking gun; there are many smoking pistols lying all over the place that we’ve painstakingly collected,” Smith told The Daily Star.

    When contacted by The Daily Star, Zalman Shapiro, the founder and former president of the Numec, strongly denied that any diversion of materials to Israel had ever taken place at the plant.

    “The story is fabricated. Absolutely fabricated,” said Shapiro, who is now 91 years old.

    Smith said that among the evidence to be included in the report is a DOE document confirming that uranium samples picked up by the CIA outside Israel’s nuclear installation in Dimona bore the same isotopic signature as material produced by the Portsmouth Gaseous Diffusion Plant in the U.S. state of Ohio. The Portsmouth plant was a supplier for Numec.

    Victor Gillinsky, who was a commissioner for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission from 1975 to 1984, said that evidence of a link between samples found at Dimona and nuclear material produced at Portsmouth, if reliable, would be “very significant.” ”

    link to informationclearinghouse.info

    • Citizen
      December 7, 2011, 12:13 pm

      While non-Jews slowly uncover Israel’s criminal methods of creating its own nuclear stockpile, no thanks to Jewish Americans, the Jewish American Establishment pursues its plan to make America attack Iran for its attempt to foil Israeli hegemony in the ME: link to dailystar.com.lb

      • Theo
        December 9, 2011, 8:17 am

        Joschka Fischer is an intelligent idiot who made a career by turning with the wind at any time it was required.

        He was a 1968 rebel, demonstrated and beat up cops and commited countless similar crimes. He took part in Algier on the arab congress against Israel, being very much anti-zionist.
        After his Green party was elected, he made an 180° turn, became a pro israeli and visited there several times.
        He was awarded with a professor seat at Yale, although he never even had a high school education.
        I certainly would not pay too much credit to anything he says.

Leave a Reply