It began with "Israel's bogus case for bombing Gaza." But the Israeli military kept up its war of disinformation over the weekend. The military’s official Twitter account @IDFSpokesperson contributed to the creation of a false narrative by tweeting a dated video of rocket fire and reporting a fake statistic on civilian casualties.
@IDFSpokesperson and @AvitalLeibovich, head of military communications, both tweeted the above video of rockets fired from Gaza. However, as pointed out by @ANimer, the video is from October 2011, not last weekend. And even as the IDF was sharing this video as representative of the current rocket fire, it is wildly, hypocritically tweeting about pro-Palestinian activists sharing a dated photo. The image is of a child killed in 2006 (warning the photograph is graphic), a death inaccurately attributed to this weekend.
@IDFSpokesperson tweeted:
Criticism of the IDF’s double standard for accuracy then spilled over from the Twitter sphere to mainstream media. Despite the glaring parallels, the IDF does not acknowledge it knowingly misled the public. Defending the video to the Jerusalem Post, Leibovich said, "launching a rocket does not differ whether it happened in November, July or now," continuing, "I never claimed that the events took place in the last few days."
The video of rocket fire demonstrates the IDF does not hold itself to the same standard of accuracy it prescribes for others.
Additionally, @IDFSpokesperson also provides daily lists of the number of Israelis within rocket range, the number of rockets fired into Israel and the number of rockets intercepted by its Iron Dome defense system. Yet the military never mentions the number of Palestinian deaths, or the number of projectiles fired by Israel into Gaza.
About a month ago, Yousef Munayyer noticed this pattern on the IDF's blog. Munayyer then contacted @AvitalLeibovich, and the communications director responded but evaded the question. Instead, Leibovich directed Munayyer to information on rockets launched from Gaza into Israel. Take a look at their conversation:
Last weekend, the only time Israeli social media recounted something entering Gaza from Israel, it was humanitarian aid, not bombs. The military said "4,862 tons of goods and gas (including 190 tons of fruit) entered Gaza from Israel." Based on first hand accounts from Palestinians in Gaza, Israeli bombs dropped around the clock over the weekend, leaving a reported 25 dead. Yet, according to @IDFSpokesperson only fruit entered Gaza.
Though the IDF did not comment directly on the death toll, the military’s blog took great care to describe Israel's surgical accuracy in taking the lives of others. The blog said Israel’s "civilian-to-terrorist death ratio is the lowest in the world," reporting a 1:30 rate since 2008. This ratio is incorrect. If it were applied to the 2008-09 Israeli assault on Gaza, there would have only been around 40 civilian deaths, not around 1,100 as reported by the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights. Even the Israeli military's own records show a ratio higher than 1:30; they say the military killed 300 civilians. Furthermore, if the ratio had been in effect last weekend, there would not have been even one civilian casualty.
For more disinformation from the IDF and pro-Israel tweeps, see #IsraelUnderFire.
Your middle image is to small for some of us to read. You need to either make it bigger or to link it to a larger version.
I am sorry moderators that this little piece of truth seems to offend you.
Should i start doubting the general good will of this site ?
You can edit and remove this exchange but show my argument.
This is not something that you can hide this fake image story is widely known
by now and will not go unnoticed.
/The image is of a child killed in 2009 (warning the photograph is graphic), a death inaccurately attributed to this weekend./
2006 actually died in an accident (she fell from a swing) not by Israeli fire nor during any hostilities.
That’s the difference Allison.
In this case the IDF shows an illustrative video of Palestinian rocket fire.
In which the Palestinians fire rockets at Israel.
While the “pro-Palestinian activists” showed a photo of a child that died in an
accident in 2006 and attribute it to the IDF fire during the last days.
It’s the difference between and illustrative video released by IDF and a blatant lie by the “activists”.
link to honestreporting.com
“Further research revealed that the photo was taken in 2006 by Reuters, and that the girl, initially thought to have been killed in an Israeli air strike, was injured by falling off a swing. When confronted with this information, Alzeer stated that the photo was taken last night and forwarded to the press that day.”
This is the link to Honest Reporting site
about who released the image
link to honestreporting.com
“Khulood Badawi happens to work for the OCHA – the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs where, according to a UN Contact List, she works as an Information and Media Coordinator.
A Google search reveals that Badawi has a history of activism in a range of pro-Palestinian non-governmental organizations, some of them radical and politicized. While this background may not in itself disqualify her from a career with the UN, it is absolutely unacceptable that a UN employee working specifically on dissemination of information to the media and public tweets malicious and false information to libel Israel.”
When contacted by phone Badawi refused to make any comments
on the issue saying that she “is not interested in further comments”
The OCHA said they are looking into it.
I guess Allison didn’t have this information.
/The image is of a child killed in 2009 (warning the photograph is graphic), a death inaccurately attributed to this weekend./
Oleg
How many Palestinian children has Israel murdered since January 2009 ?
seafoid & shingo, like the IDF-bot Avital Libovitch OlegR seems to be unable to compute your question.
@seafoid: the answer to your question about the number of Palestinian children murdered by Israel is zero. Those children regretfully killed are not murdered – murder by definition requires deliberate intent. Why would Israel want to kill innocent children – it would just give people like you the opportunity to yell and scream and undermine its position.
>> Those children regretfully killed are not murdered – murder by definition requires deliberate intent.
——————————
Murder:
- Unlawful
- killing
- of a human
- by another human
- with malice aforethought.
. . .
The courts broadened the scope of murder by eliminating the requirement of actual premeditation and deliberation as well as true malice. All that was required for malice aforethought to exist is that the perpetrator act with one of the four states of mind that constitutes “malice.”
The four states of mind recognized as constituting “malice” are:
. . .
iii. Reckless indifference to an unjustifiably high risk to human life (sometimes described as an “abandoned and malignant heart”)
. . .
Under state of mind (iii), an “abandoned and malignant heart”, the killing must result from defendant’s conduct involving a reckless indifference to human life and a conscious disregard of an unreasonable risk of death or serious bodily injury. …
——————————
That sounds an awful lot like what you’d expect to result from massive and disproportionate air and ground assaults against a captive population.
When civilians are purposefully factored into the equation it’s murder.
Fact: there is no Internationally accepted formula for collateral damage. The International Community have never been allowed to reach an agreement by the major powers.
An assessment is made by the officer in the field as to the value of the military target compared to the possibility of killing/injuring civilians, the armament is then PURPOSEFULLY fired.
“Why would Israel want to kill innocent children “
To drive the Palestinians out of their minds in frustration using whatever they have at their disposal, even terrorism. Then the ‘peace loving’ state of Israel can say look, they’re savages. It’s typical of ABUSERS.
The legal system has failed the Palestinians, even though the law is on their side in relation to Israel illegally acquiring Palestinian territory by war, illegal annexation, illegal settlements. 63 years of dispossession, 63 years of theft and 63 years of death destruction and slaughter all on behalf of the vile notion of a Greater Israel.
Israel murdered 330 children during Cast Lead alone.
Israel deliberately drop bombs on Gaza with the deliberate intent of killing people. Israeli propagandisst accuse Palestinians of using children as human shields, but if that is the case, all this proves is that Israel has decided that killing those children to hit their targets is justified.
Hence, killing children is fully intentional.
That’s precisley why Israel’s reputation lies aloingside that of North Ko
“To drive the Palestinians out of their minds in frustration using whatever they have at their disposal, even terrorism. Then the ‘peace loving’ state of Israel can say look, they’re savages. It’s typical of ABUSERS.”
That doesn’t make any sense. Why would Israel want to provoke Palestinians into terrorism which claims the lives of Israelis?
Why would Israel want to provoke Palestinians into terrorism which claims the lives of Israelis?
Are you serious, Izik? There are the overtly cynical reasons (elections, PR, distraction, coalition politics, etc.), the “mistaken conceptions” (e.g. attacks against civilians lead to policy and regime change, action is always better than inaction, etc.), the excessive influence of the military (if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail), the corrupting effects of power at all levels (from the PM to the checkpoint soldier to the “parliament” at your local cafe), and much more. Do you really believe all the chattering about “security for the south”? Did you believe the chattering about “security for the north”?
‘Do you really believe all the chattering about “security for the south”?’
Yes.
‘Did you believe the chattering about “security for the north”?’
Yes.
The rockets have been falling on Israeli civilians for 12 years. They were fired before the withdrawal, after the withdrawal, after Hamas was elected and after Hamas committed a bloody, violent coup against Fatah. And they will continue to fall, because the people who are firing them would rather kill Israeli civilians rather than tend to the boring job of building a state.
Izik,
That wasn’t my question. Do you believe that Israeli actions vis-à-vis Gaza (and Lebanon) have always been concerned exclusively with protecting Israeli lives, and have never had any other motives or even knowingly endangered Israeli lives? Were there more rockets or fewer rockets before Israel’s latest extrajudicial executions? Will Israel’s recent attacks put a stop to the rockets? Has the collective punishment of a million and a half Gazans done the trick so far? Have Israeli actions put the residents of the south more or less at risk, and do the politicians and generals really care?
Aside: Friends in Nahariya used to tell me that it was usually the sound of F-16s flying toward Lebanon that precipitated the firing of katyushas from Lebanon, and not the other way around. Did those F-16s eliminate the threat? Wipe out Hizbollah? Or did they merely put Israeli (and Lebanese) lives at greater risk, for reasons that had little to do with “security for the north”? I think Shimon Peres and Ehud Olmert know the answer.
Israel has been bombing and occupying for a lot longer than that.
Actually, it was Fatah who commited the violent coup agaist Hamas, under orders from Washington adn Tel Aviv.
As for rockets being fired, there was an occupation before the withdrawal, after the withdrawal, after Hamas was elected and after Fatah committed a bloody, violent coup against Hamas.
Not nly that, but Israel fired as many shelld in 10 months and the number of rockets Hamas fired in 10 years.
You mean so that Israel can come up with a phony excuse to bomb it again? An incidentally, your government has been vilently commited to preventing such a state from emerging since it invaded Lebanon.
Ten why did Israel attack Gaza knowing that such an attack would incite such rocket attacks? Why did Israel do it in 2008, when there had been 4 months of calm?
/Do you believe that Israeli actions vis-à-vis Gaza (and Lebanon) have always been concerned exclusively with protecting Israeli lives, and have never had any other motives or even knowingly endangered Israeli lives?/
Yes i do believe so. That said , does not mean that all of those actions
were smart or well executed or even achieved those goals.But yes
i don’t doubt the intentions behind them.
/Were there more rockets or fewer rockets before Israel’s latest extrajudicial executions?/
The question is irrelevant if those extrajudicial executions prevented
terror attacks from the Sinai desert that had the far greater potential to inflict
casualties then those rockets.Not to mention complicate things with Egypt.
/Will Israel’s recent attacks put a stop to the rockets? /
No but that does not mean other alternatives would work better.
/Has the collective punishment of a million and a half Gazans done the trick so far?/
The idea is not the “collective punishment of a million and a half Gazan” the idea is preventing their elected Government (Hamas) from acquiring
more power, weapons, supplies.As long as they are pressured their effectiveness
is hindered.
/Have Israeli actions put the residents of the south more or less at risk, and do the politicians and generals really care?/
The first question that can only be answered if you have all the facts which
neither you nor i have.
/and do the politicians and generals really care?/
A matter of debate certainly but in general i would say yes they do.
If you want specifics then you need to provide names.
/? Or did they merely put Israeli (and Lebanese) lives at greater risk, for reasons that had little to do with “security for the north”? I think Shimon Peres and Ehud Olmert know the answer./
A matter of speculations and convictions.
Fact 1) Since the withdrawal from the security strip in Lebanon in 2000
Hizbollah established an extensive presence on our border
Kidnapped or killed in ambushes 13 Israeli soldiers (some kidnapping attempts
failed).
Fact 2) Since 2006 war Hizbollah has actively refused to engage Israel on any level
besides it’s usual rhetoric.The Lebanese army is in charge in the southern
Lebanon and an international UN forces are deployed on the south to
ensure the situation continues.
Before we continue.
Do you support the targeting of civilians with rockets or suicide bombings against civilians?
Before we continue.
Do you support the targeting of civilians with rockets or suicide bombings against civilians?
I don’t know what that has to do with a discussion of the unparalleled honesty and good faith of Israeli politicians and generals, who would never dream of endangering Israeli lives (civilian or otherwise) for political or other gain, but I’ll play along.
No, I do not support the targeting of civilians with rockets, bombs or any other weapons. Nor do I support “mere” disregard for civilian life, or the collective punishment of civilians for things they have not done and over which they have no control.
If I haven’t made myself clear, I think Israeli leaders have shown criminal disregard for the lives of Israeli as well as Palestinian civilians. There have been all sorts of reasons for this, including the noble goal of simply showing – as Gideon Levy put it – “whose is bigger”.
I don’t think Israel should be engaged in the ongoing dispossession of a people or the continuous theft of their land, erasure of their history etc. I think such people should have access to justice through the international institutions that are *supposed* to help them achieve that. Failing that they should be able to arm themselves appropriately in order to mount an effective resistance to the thieves and oppressors. Unfortunately, the only weaponry to which they do have access is lacking in the precision you would like. So be it. Israel’s crimes against Palestine are several orders of magnitude greater and will remain so.
/ or the collective punishment of civilians for things they have not done and over which they have no control./
A small matter of debate here.
Aren’t you guys always argue that Hamas legitimately won the elections
in PA and that they are the genuine democratic article chosen
by the Palestinian people as their leaders.
You can’t have the rope both ways on this one.
If you are correct and BTW (i tend to agree they won the elections fair and square) then the people that voted them into power share some responsibility
for their elected government actions just as we Israeli citizens share
it for ours.
you guys
Please feel free to address me in the singular.
If you are correct and BTW (i tend to agree they won the elections fair and square) then the people that voted them into power share some responsibility for their elected government actions just as we Israeli citizens share it for ours.
Are you arguing that Israeli civilians are legitimate targets because some of them voted for Netanyahu? I certainly hope not.
/you guys
Please feel free to address me in the singular./
Point taken.
/Are you arguing that Israeli civilians are legitimate targets because some of them voted for Netanyahu? I certainly hope not.
/
No i am saying that citizens of democratic countries share responsibility
for their elected government actions.That’s what makes them different
from subjects of dictatorships that have no say in those matters.
If you vote a dangerous lunatic to be the PM and support all of his decisions
then you can partly blame yourself that he starts a war half way across the world and you start receiving your loved ones in body bags.
Freedom to choose you leader carries with it the burden of responsibility.
It’s true to Israeli it’s true to the Palestinians.
That does not mean that the rules of war do not apply to you if you are
a civilian.
“Aren’t you guys always argue that Hamas legitimately won the elections
in PA and that they are the genuine democratic article chosen
by the Palestinian people as their leaders.
You can’t have the rope both ways on this one.
If you are correct and BTW (i tend to agree they won the elections fair and square) then the people that voted them into power share some responsibility
for their elected government actions just as we Israeli citizens share
it for ours.”
From all that you’ve said above that last concession (“we Israeli citizens share it for ours”) is meaningless. You recite as an article of faith the belief in the good intentions of your government and if Israel were subjected to a Gaza-style blockade as severe as what Israel and Mubarak’s Egypt did to Gaza, you and your government would undoubtedly see it as an atrocity and an act of war and I don’t doubt the word “terrorism” would come into it.
“Before we continue.
Do you support the targeting of civilians with rockets or suicide bombings against civilians?”
Westerners (not just Israelis) have this trick of pretending that they don’t support the targeting of civilians and then supporting policies which essentially do target civilians.
Not that you asked me, but I don’t support Palestinian attacks on civilians, but then I don’t support Israeli attacks on civilians either. Getting you to that level of moral consistency is probably a hopeless undertaking, largely because you will find some way to rationalize Israeli actions as legitimate and well-intentioned.
The degree of responsibility that citizens bear for the actions and policies of the governments they elect can be a little tricky: first or second (or more) term in office, adhering to or deviating from platform and campaign promises, foreseen or unforeseen coalition partners, other post-election developments, dishonesty and manipulation (during and/or after elections), possibility of impeachment, and so forth.
Of course, citizens who did not vote for those in power certainly cannot be held responsible, and voters cannot be held responsible for the actions of extra-governmental actors.
That does not mean that the rules of war do not apply to you if you are
a civilian.
Absolutely.
/and if Israel were subjected to a Gaza-style blockade as severe as what Israel and Mubarak’s Egypt did to Gaza, you and your government would undoubtedly see it as an atrocity and an act of war and I don’t doubt the word “terrorism” would come into it./
I can’t answer a hypothetical question such as this i don’t have your prophetic
skill , but.
If we would have lost civilians in the latest exchange
the responsibility for their death’s especially since we made the first strike
(even justifiable and a preventive measure)
would lay on the Palestinians that use indiscriminate weapons
against us.
On our government that failed to provide adequate protection or alternative
solution to the situation (even if the options were limited or they had to choose
the lesser evil )
And ultimately on me as a voting citizen in a free democratic state.
/The degree of responsibility that citizens bear for the actions and policies of the governments they elect can be a little tricky:/
I agree to that but that’s the nature of our imperfect systems.
/Of course, citizens who did not vote for those in power certainly cannot be held responsible,/
I can’t agree with that.As long as you didn’t offer a viable alternative
and convinced enough people to change the government then
you bear some responsibility. That’s just the nature of the game
in my opinion.(I believe activism is just about that)
/voters cannot be held responsible for the actions of extra-governmental actors./
Again depends on nature of those actors if the government allows such chaos
for it’s on political reasons then the government has responsibility.
Hamas does not want an escalation but they just can’t tell Jihad to
cease fire immediately they are caught in their own rhetoric about
Resistance therefore they act against their own and their population
best interest.
The same can be argued about Israel and the settler movement.
in both cases the burden of responsibility is on the governments
and thus eventually on the voters
>> If we would have lost civilians in the latest exchange the responsibility for their death’s especially since we made the first strike … would lay on the Palestinians that use indiscriminate weapons against us.
Similarly, when the Palestinians strike first, responsibility for the deaths of other Palestinians falls on Israel that uses indiscriminate and highly discriminate weapons against them.
Or do your rules change when Palestinians make the first strike?
“I can’t answer a hypothetical question such as this i don’t have your prophetic
skill , but.”
You then proceeded to answer your own hypothetical question. Anyway, mine was easy. If it is okay to blockade Gaza for the threat posed by rockets (and I don’t think that’s the only reason for the blockade–it was also to discredit Hamas by making Gazans suffer), then it would be okay to blockade Israel for the much greater violence and oppression they inflict on Palestinians. That’s true, isn’t it? But if you don’t agree, and I’m sure you don’t, then you’d probably support acts of violence far greater than anything the Gazans can inflict in order to lift that blockade. If somehow the Gazans imposed it, you guys would bombard Gaza.
What’s hypothetical about my question is that we live in a world where lordly Westerners congratulate themselves for being civilized as they decide exactly how much violence and oppression they will inflict on the barbarians who elected the wrong people. There’s no way that Israel or the US will be placed under severe sanctions or blockades and we won’t have F-16′s or drones flying in assassinating the people who allegedly committed war crimes against others. And we won’t hold our own people accountable, but through all this we will talk in hypothetical meaningless terms about how our system of government means that we are accountable for its actions.
>> And we won’t hold our own people accountable, but through all this we will talk in hypothetical meaningless terms about how our system of government means that we are accountable for its actions.
And that’s why Obama, Dubya, the neocons and countless others are making money instead of rotting in prison, and why we (Western nations) continue to invade, occupy, overthrow, assassinate and destroy with utter impunity.
Since the Hamas government is some two years past its sell-by-date now, and no new elections have been held, then arguably the people of Gaza are *not* responsible for the administration in charge of the Strip. Oleg and co fail. They and their govt have ensured the conditions for elections are impossible to achieve.
/ If it is okay to blockade Gaza for the threat posed by rockets (and I don’t think that’s the only reason for the blockade–it was also to discredit Hamas by making Gazans suffer), then it would be okay to blockade Israel for the much greater violence and oppression they inflict on Palestinians./
If some country feels that they want to blockade us then they are welcome
to try but obviously this also has consequences.
/imilarly, when the Palestinians strike first, responsibility for the deaths of other Palestinians falls on Israel that uses indiscriminate and highly discriminate weapons against them./
It falls on the Palestinians that initiated the conflict in the first place
and on Israel if they were not careful enough.
The question as always who is right who started and who carries more responsibility
but that as always is a matter of perspective personal
preference and debate :)
“The rockets have been falling on Israeli civilians for 12 years.”
No, they pretty much fall on empty land.
These are not particularly deadly weapons. More people die in auto accidents in the US, on average, every 5 hours than have been killed by these rockets in a decade. That’s about the same number of people who die in the average 8-week period in the US from bee stings.
Given that fact and the Israeli rejection of the Arab Peace Plan, still on the table unanswered for a decade, which would give the Israelis everything that they publicly claim to want (peace, security, normalized relations with the Arab world), the only conclusion one can rightly reach is that the Israelis will use anything done or not done by the Palestinians as an excuse to further their oppression. That’s why they provoke the Palestinians’ response.
“And they will continue to fall, because the people who are firing them would rather kill Israeli civilians rather than tend to the boring job of building a state.”
If you people withdrew your attack dogs, stopped infesting and stealing their land, blockading their people by land, sea and air, and basically holding them in ghettos, then you might have room to complain.
They live under your jackboot with you aiming a cocked pistol to their children’s heads. Who are you to say that they aren’t doing enough??
/Since the Hamas government is some two years past its sell-by-date now, and no new elections have been held, then arguably the people of Gaza are *not* responsible for the administration in charge of the Strip. /
Nope sorry either the people in Gaza still support Hamas or they don’t
and then they have the fine example of Tahrir in front of them.
/They and their govt have ensured the conditions for elections are impossible to achieve./
Sorry Israel is not responsible that the Ashaf and Hamas can’t get
their act together.
Wasn’t that old quote about “loving their children more than they hate us(Israel)”relevant?Of course Palestinian children are targeted as collateral damage,but if Israeli children are killed it’s the height of barbarity,witness the Israeli fixation on their schools being bombarded,and those settlers children that were murdered last year, as it still makes the news today,unlike all those Palestinian child deaths of Cast Lead.
“If some country feels that they want to blockade us then they are welcome
to try but obviously this also has consequences.”
So you are abandoning the moral claim and falling back on whose is bigger?
I’ve noticed it often goes this way.
>> It falls on the Palestinians that initiated the conflict in the first place …
Surprise, surprise.
/,witness the Israeli fixation on their schools being bombarded/
Yes we get really annoyed,imagine that.
Don’t quote out of context eljay
that’s not very nice.
>> Don’t quote out of context eljay that’s not very nice.
I didn’t quote out of context, RW. Here’s exactly how it played out:
——————————–
>> OlegR: If we would have lost civilians in the latest exchange the responsibility for their death’s especially since we made the first strike … would lay on the Palestinians that use indiscriminate weapons against us.
>> eljay: Similarly, when the Palestinians strike first, responsibility for the deaths of other Palestinians falls on Israel that uses indiscriminate and highly discriminate weapons against them. Or do your rules change when Palestinians make the first strike?
>> OlegR: It falls on the Palestinians that initiated the conflict in the first place and on Israel if they were not careful enough.
——————————–
If Israel strikes first and its citizens are killed, you primarily blame the Palestinians. If the Palestinians strike first and their citizens are killed as a result, you do not primarily blame Israel – you primarily (“in the first place”) blame the Palestinians. Quite expectedly, you changed your rules.
Izik says:
“That doesn’t make any sense. Why would Israel want to provoke Palestinians into terrorism which claims the lives of Israelis?”
Why do you think ABUSERS provoke their victims into slapping them? They can then turn around and say ‘ look s/he’s insane, s/he attacked me!’
Scale it up to a state, which if made to face the law which actually falls in favour of the Palestinians, would be sent broke for decades attempting to pay the Palestinians their rightful compensation for dispossession, for the 50% of their rightful territory illegally acquired by war by Israel since 1948/49. Israel would be forced to relocate hundreds of thousands of illegal settlers. All those big fat settlement contracts worth millions upon millions, cancelled.
The Palestinians, beaten senseless for 63 years concede to forgo about 50% of their territory, to the ’67 Armistice Demarcation Lines, for peace. Yet Israel wants more and more. Typical of an abuser. Once the victim concedes for peace, the abuser escalates.
Israeli citizens have been lied to for 63 years by consecutive Israeli Governments, told they’re living in Israel, when no borders have ever been legally altered. They’re made to serve in the IDF, cannon fodder for a the insane notion of a Greater Israel.
OlegR “the people that voted them into power share some responsibility for their elected government actions just as we Israeli citizens share it for ours”
Answered your own question there didn’t you. Took the rope both ways and hung yourself.
Consecutive Israeli Governments have for 63 years been illegally dispossessing Palestinians, illegally acquiring their territory by war, illegally annexing territory, illegally settling their territory. The Law which actually falls on the side of the Palestinians has been prevented from being enforced only by the US veto vote in the UNSC at the behest of the elected Israeli Government.
According to you, Israeli citizens share the repercussions, which happen to be Palestinians using whatever means at their disposal, including the use of inaccurate home made devices without the advantage of advanced technology Israel has to see what they might be aiming at. According to IDF statistics that armed Israelis have been killed in far larger numbers than un-armed Israeli citizens.
<blockquoteIt falls on the Palestinians that initiated the conflict in the first place …
The ISraelis already admitted they initiated. I guess reality isn’t your strong point.
You forget that in each case i a lay part of the responsibility on Israel
as well.The exact proportion of this blame is something that i judge
in each and each case.
And obviously being an Israeli i am not entirely
impartial.
You regurgitate a load of propaganda from an Israeli hasbara site, which has the joke title of ‘honest reporting’ (!) and expect us to take you seriously? Are you real, or just another paid student pounding his keyboard in abject ignorance and wilful denial of what Israel is doing to defenceless Palestinians? Such chutzpah in defending war crimes only deepens the distrust and disgust of people worldwide. You should be ashamed, except such normal human reactions have been surgically removed by your deep ideological commitment to fake reporting, false accounting, invention of so-called facts and dishonesty at every level.
link to littlegreenfootballs.com
Check the dates.
Enjoy.
nice try though.
So you can link to propaganda sites and reports with no credibility and post them as if your fantasy version of reality is true. Well done, now go and learn the difference between fact and fiction.
Thanks for sharing your reading material with us Oleg. We can now put to rest any suggestion you are any kind of progressive.
A right wing extremist you are.
So how many Palestinian children has Israel murdered since January 2009 ?
32 until 31.12.2011 according to B’Tselem.
>> “Further research revealed that the photo was taken in 2006 by Reuters, and that the girl, initially thought to have been killed in an Israeli air strike, was injured by falling off a swing.”
Bloodied and killed by a swing – wow, that is one bad-ass playground contraption!
>> Bloodied and killed by a swing – wow, that is one bad-ass playground contraption!
That being said, a search on Google for Raja Abu Shaban does reveal that this recent story is a fake. It’s a shame to see the validity of Palestinian suffering tainted by disinformation.
Thank you eljay
It’s nice to see that people can rise above their
convictions even if the truth is uncomfortable.
Okay, comrade, time to see how you do…
So, answer seafoid’s question:
Or is that truth too uncomfortable for your zio-fascist convictions?
>> It’s nice to see that people can rise above their convictions even if the truth is uncomfortable.
I’m a big fan of truth…and justice and morality and all that good stuff. :-)
“I’m a big fan of truth…and justice and morality and all that good stuff.”
Sure. And where do think that will get you, eh?
>> … And where do think that will get you, eh?
Well, it won’t help me cheat death, if that’s what you’re getting at…but who wants to live forever anyway? ;-)
Won’t get you fame, riches, or the admiration of the media, either.
“I’m a big fan of truth…and justice and morality and all that good stuff. :-)”
It is a good thing to admit it when some hasbarist happens to say something that is actually true. But as you know, don’t expect them to follow your example–if they did, their whole position would start to crumble.
>> But as you know, don’t expect them to follow your example …
I never do.
I can answer that one. None.
“it is absolutely unacceptable that a UN employee working specifically on dissemination of information to the media and public tweets malicious and false information to libel Israel”
Uh huh. One incident where she may have been unaware it was faked.. Meanwhile, lying is against the basic tenets of Judaism. The Jewish State and supporters of a Greater Israel have for 63 years been LYING PURPOSEFULLY to the world, to the UN, and to Israeli citizens. Assisted by the likes of yourself in order to demonize the Palestinians
Netanyahu: some 36 blatant lies in his speech to the UN
Peres : Lies to the UN
The lies are so transparent, so illogical and so easily disproven, only a moron or a child would believe them. Then of course there are the complete denialists who purposefully believe the lies and the purposeful liars for Israel, propagandistas, pushing Habarrows full of bullsh*te
I can’t wait for this year’s fresh hasbara. Last year’s will be hard to beat.
link to ynetnews.com
“The untold story of Gaza’s bloom (sic – apologies for the Israeli education system,) Shiny red sports cars, construction boom and crowded cafes. …”
The Gaza flotilla unleashed an infection of Hasbaratic BS
link to bobtuskin.com
The reports, citing military intelligence sources, said that some activists had spoken in preparatory meetings of their desire to “shed the blood” of soldiers and had threatened to kill those who might board their ships.
“Coming to kill,” said a headline in the Maariv newspaper over a photo of one vessel.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/…/1224298206441.html
They initiated a violent attack against the Israeli soldiers undertaking legal blockade-enforcement actions, while shouting: “Go back to Auschwitz!”
link to haaretz.com
Fresh hasbara? It just gets recycled!
This from 34 years ago, one “Ben Nitay” who went on to become someone we all know of and loathe:
link to youtube.com
Is he saying *anything* different to the same tired old tosh he’s still peddling three and a half decades on?
Such a tragedy that this goon and his Likud buddies took control of Israel in 1977 and never relinquished it. 34 years of procrastination and Israeli democracy on its deathbed.
The question at 09.30 is more relevant now than it was in 1978 :
Can Israel remain as a garrison state and a democracy ?
Those Arabs weren’t too shabby even back then
It’s the same crap as he uses now but the difference is 34 years and during that period Israeli bad faith has been the constant. They have implemented his philosophy to the letter. He killed Oslo. The Palestinians remain stateless. Will Israel get another 34 years of timewasting? Very unlikely.
Lourdes Garcia-Navarro at NPR has been obediently parroting Israeli government and IDF claims for days. ‘Reporters’ like her are repeatedly, frequently contacted about their patterns of unquestioning acceptance of official lines (official from US or Israeli governments, not from Iran or Palestine, needless to say). They continue to repeat the official line anyway. This tells us that it is not just a mistake on their part. It is deliberate, planned.
consistancy
born of a lie*
never truthful about its crimes
ever
*the one about a land without a people for a people without a land
RE: “@IDFSpokesperson tweets inaccurate video and fake civilian casualty statistics” ~ Deger
PARAPHRASING GROUCHO*: IDF “facts” are to facts what military “music” is to music!
* “Military justice is to justice what military music is to music.” ~ Groucho
SOURCE – link to quotationspage.com
link to gazatvnews.com
Tonight, in the monthly meeting of Moyle District Council in Ireland, they officially confirmed a twinning with the Gaza City Municipality. This is the 1st official twinning with a municipality in Gaza and any council in Europe.
Moyle District Council is in the North East of Ireland, and within its district are the stunning Glens of Antrim, Bushmills which is world famous for its whiskey, and the Giants Causeway, which is a UNESCO world heritage site.
It’s easy to say that any source which supports a Palestinian narrative is reliable, and any source which supports an Israeli one is dishonest, propaganda, hasbara, and repugnant.
But what to say when the Guardian, perhaps the most anti-Israeli mainstream newspaper in the English language, gives casualty numbers which are almost the same as the hasbarist numbers?
link to guardian.co.uk
What are you talking about. The Guardian reports what Israel and Egyptian officials say, without corroborating either. It says nothing about the fake statistics which are the subject of this article, the absurd ‘ratios’. Clutching at straws. If you think The Guardian is anti-Israel, then heaven help your idea of what constitutes reporting and journalism.
Maybe the old Guardian,but not this new neolibcon criminal Guardian that sprang from the head of Julian Assange being led to the guillotine,a very very unAthena like scenario and exposed by Assange with his remarks,which made him just another exposer of Ziomachinations and fair game for the neolibcon imperialist monsters of stupidity and venality.
And screw Al Jazeera also,another criminal enterprise.
After the last glimmerings of dissent over the Iraq war, pretty much all the main media organs in Britain, notably the BBC and The Guardian, were corporatized.
“the Guardian, perhaps the most anti-Israeli mainstream newspaper in the English language”
Oh dear. The Guardian bends over backwards for Israel.
link to guardian.co.uk
try getting a strongly anti-zionist letter on guardian.co.uk
one (at most two) attempts and out you go, permanently
Winnica uses a cheap trick. The claim of this “Even the Israeli military’s own records show a ratio higher than 1:30; they say the military killed 300 civilians. Furthermore, if the ratio had been in effect last weekend, there would not have been even one civilian casualty. ”
The claims in the Guardian are exactly the same:
Eight Israelis were injured by the rockets, dozens of which were shot down harmlessly by Israel’s “Iron Dome” missile interceptor system.
Twenty of the Palestinians killed since fighting flared in the Hamas-controlled enclave were militants and five were civilians, according to medical officials.
At least 80 Palestinians, mostly civilians, have been wounded in the violence, which also brought much of southern Israel to a standstill, forcing schools to close and hundreds of thousands to remain indoors.
Gaza, home to 1.7 million people, was under Israeli occupation from 1967 until 2005 and remains under blockade.
The asymmetrical reporting in the Israeli and American press about their respective occupations of foreign lands sustains the illusion the deaths of civilians are insignificant mistakes and the soldiers died heroes. When a soldier is killed, the MSM invariably depicts him as a good student, loving family man, fighting to make the world better and frequently shows a picture of him alive and smiling, never his dead body–in other words, someone you can identify with. Palestinain, Afghani, Iraqi and Pakastani victims of colateral damage, besides the euphemism, are listed by sex and age, sometimes with pictures of their dead bodies, but never with a picture of when they were alive or any humanizing information.
Pictures of dead bodies don’t work to change most peoples ideas about war because most people, Americans especially, are too afraid of death to identify with these victims. Better it would be to show pictures of the victims smiling and alive, with short discriptions, for the Sesame Street generation, of their lives–how they will be missed by family and friends. The only way to overcome our tribal competition is by connecting one life with another, and the only way to provide symmetry to the current propaganda the average person ingests is to make the civilian casualties of war personal.