‘Tablet’ describes American veterans of IDF experiencing ‘dual loyalty’ issues

A piece by Adam Chandler at Tablet describes a group of American veterans of the Israeli army who meet in New York. It is named Aluf Stone after an American soldier of an earlier generation who went to serve in Israel.  I know we’re not allowed to talk about dual loyalty. But in this day and age sometimes we have to. How many other foreign armies are calling to American youth?

And I wonder about the numbers. “Aluf Stone currently has hundreds of members around the world.”

[Lilit Marcus] sees the group as a social corrective for the isolation that many of the veterans feel: loyal to both Israel and the United States, yet with an experience that’s foreign to most other people in both countries.

“Aluf Stone occupies an interesting middle ground in the U.S. They don’t belong in U.S. veterans’ groups and networks, as they didn’t [all] serve in the American military,” she explained. “But when they interact with other Jews in the United States, they can’t necessarily share their experiences without the stories being seen as politically charged. Several of the men who attend Aluf Stone meetings have told me that they have shared stories with each other that they can’t even share with their own families.”

Some of the members also interact with Israeli-born IDF veterans who have since moved stateside—but again, their experiences are not exactly the same, and native-born Israelis sometimes look askance at these vets. A common phrase used by Israelis to describe the foreign soldiers who came to join the IDF is the Yiddish slur “freier,” which is somewhere between a fool and a sucker. While each man says the respect eventually came, the broader sense of integration often didn’t. In this way, Aluf Stone deals with the consequences of dual loyalty—of not truly belonging in either place.

“Some people aren’t sure why we’re in the States at all,” said Matthew Ronen, 30, another of the group’s founders—an Ohio native now living in New York City after his IDF stint. Some in the group say that Americans shun them for leaving home to serve abroad; others note that Israelis shun them for leaving Israel after their service. “If you served in the IDF, people wonder why you came back,” Ronen said. “Sometimes there’s a sense of failure there.”

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.
Posted in American Jewish Community, Israel/Palestine, US Politics

{ 75 comments... read them below or add one }

  1. Woody Tanaka says:

    “Some people aren’t sure why we’re in the States at all,” said Matthew Ronen, 30, another of the group’s founders—an Ohio native now living in New York City after his IDF stint…

    Here’s a guy who was 19 years old on 9/11 and within a few years, the US military is engaged in 2 wars, and he chooses to become a mercinary in a foreign army for a foreign state and he puzzled by people’s reactions? Even if you find the US wars on Iraq and Afghanistan repugnant, one shouldn’t find the reaction puzzling.

    • Newclench says:

      Calling them mercenaries shows a lack of knowledge about the actual conditions for Israeli draftees. Soldiers in Israel (and most conscripts in any country) get enough money for cigarettes and show polish, Its another example of pejorative and incorrect language used to elicit a strong emotion.
      His response has to do with other Israelis, or pro-Israeli American Jews, not understanding why he didn’t remain in Israel. Most Americans don’t actually care who served in what army, and most of those that do have at least some sense of veteran solidarity.

      • Dan Crowther says:

        “Most Americans don’t actually care who served in what army, and most of those that do have at least some sense of veteran solidarity.”
        ————————————–
        Only speaking for myself here, if someone (an american) showed up to a VFW wearing a IDF bomber jacket, I cant imagine it would go over very well.

      • Most Americans don’t actually care who served in what army

        what? could you elaborate?

        • Mooser says:

          Jeez Annie, haven’t you seen all those re-unions listed on the Web for German Army soldiers captured early in WW2 and sent to Canada (and many ended up in the States, and became permanent residents). Yes sir, they hire a hall, get a couple kegs of good German beer, wear their old uniforms and raise the swatstika flag. The entire town joins in the celebration. Nobody cares which army they’re from!

        • i heard some british MK’s recently impersonated them at a bachelor party in france. that went over like a lead brick.

          ;)

        • Bumblebye says:

          MK’s? British? So who’s hiding our Knesset?
          (and I think they were Tories a few miles to the right of David Cameron)

      • Woody Tanaka says:

        “Soldiers in Israel (and most conscripts in any country) get enough money for cigarettes and show polish, Its another example of pejorative and incorrect language used to elicit a strong emotion.”

        That doesn’t mean that he’s not a mercenary. It just means he’s a cheap one.

        “His response has to do with other Israelis, or pro-Israeli American Jews, not understanding why he didn’t remain in Israel. ”

        Wrong. The article states: “Some in the group say that Americans shun them for leaving home to serve abroad…” As they should. Slithering off to serve a foreign barbaric government like that, when the US is at war should be subject to shunning. Or worse.

        • pabelmont says:

          Some USA Congress-people are deeply committed Zionists (usually Jewish, I imagine). They promote Israeli interests at least from personal conviction and possibly from a sense of representing their constituents.

          Others are corrupt (or one could say “mercenaries”) working for Israel for money — campaign money– and using the power they have as Congresspeople, to fight Israel’s fights in the USA — much I dare say as they also fight the fights of Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, the BIG-PHARMA, BIG-CHEMICAL, McDonnell-Douglas, etc. For these people its hard to have anything but contempt — except that that is how our system has evolved and they had to get elected and want to get re-elected.

          It’s hard to imagine these soldiers as corrupt. Dual loyalty? Sure. And it seems to be legal at least until USA and Israel go to war against each other.

        • Woody Tanaka says:

          “It’s hard to imagine these soldiers as corrupt. Dual loyalty? Sure.”

          You seem to draw a distinction between dual loyalty and corruption. I don’t.

      • Daniel Rich says:

        @ newclench,

        John Walker Lindh fully agrees with you.

        • homingpigeon says:

          I’m glad you brought up John Walker Lindh. It’s a good case to show the inconsistency in principle of the current situation. Lindh joined the Taliban at a time it was not at war with the US. Then the US attacked the Taliban and he is suddenly guilty of taking up arms against the US. Let us imagine a scenario (unlikely, but work with me) in which the US went to war against Israel, perhaps after another USS Liberty type incident. What would be the status of the Americans serving in the IDF?

          Personally I believe no one should join any armed force – that of his own ruling killer class, or that of a foreign nation. I would use all powers of persuasion to try to convince a young fellow not to join up. But I disagree with the idea of shunning those who enlist during moments of weak judgement and misguidance. And when they return from serving in a foreign armed group, be it the IDF or the Taliban, I would welcome them home with as much warmth as possible, and hope they never do such a thing again.

        • David Samel says:

          homing p, my sentiments, (almost) precisely. I’ve always felt that about Lindh. Also, I remain ambivalent about the whole dual loyalty charge. It seems to rest on the principle that one should be loyal to one’s country and that country’s interests. The problem is, what if your country is doing bad things, and its leadership is defining the country’s interests in bad ways? I much prefer loyalty to principles, such as fairness, equality, freedom, justice , etc., all those things almost all countries pretend to stand for, even when they are fighting each other. What about Israelis who oppose their government’s hostility and threatening posture toward Iran? What if some Israelis courageously offered to travel to Iran and act as human shields at nuclear development sites, volunteering to die if Israel attacks to deter or embarrass their home country? They surely would be accused of loyalty to a foreign enemy over Israel, wouldn’t they?

          As you imply, joining the US military and joining the IDF, whether one is Israeli or American, are both bad decisions. One’s chances of engaging in aggressive wars against people defending themselves from foreign military attack is infinitely higher that one’s chances of genuinely protecting fellow citizens from attack.

          In fact, if there wee an extremely rare instance in which a foreign military force was on the side of good, I would have no problem with Americans joining it. Dimadok gives a good example of the Abraham Lincoln brigade (though I disagree with most everything else he says). What I find wrong with Americans joining the IDF is not that it’s foreign, but that it does horrible things.

        • dimadok says:

          @DavidSamel. Every army does horrible things- that’s is the nature of warfare. Death and destruction are horrible things, but once you decided to go on war or put the uniform on, it all becomes a part of the deal. You can always refuse to do so- and it is fine with me, but once you there- you do what you have to do. In IDF there is a solid system of understanding the illegal orders, which is enforced by the commanding officers and by the unique blend of the regular and reservists units serving together.
          Also , kudos for agreeing with me, although you did not have to add that you don’t agree with the most of my comments.

        • David Samel says,

          Also, I remain ambivalent about the whole dual loyalty charge. It seems to rest on the principle that one should be loyal to one’s country and that country’s interests. The problem is, what if your country is doing bad things, and its leadership is defining the country’s interests in bad ways? I much prefer loyalty to principles, such as fairness, equality, freedom, justice , etc. … What I find wrong with Americans joining the IDF is not that it’s foreign, but that it does horrible things.

          However, David, it does appear that most people lean more toward chauvinism than universalism, and so profess loyalty to country, blood, and soil rather than principles. The term ‘dual loyalty’ often seems intended to serve as a euphemism for prevailing loyalty to a foreign country. In the case of Israel, some people prefer to dispense with euphemism and use the provocative label ‘Israel Firster’. Some would go even further and say ‘single loyalty’ to the foreign country of Israel.

          In a previous discussion with you (around a year ago, I think), I suggested that if a critic wanted to imply a bit more than the literal meaning of ‘dual loyalty’, the term ‘single-minded loyalty’ to Israel might be appropriate. Such a naming would imply that moral principles are not a significant consideration.

      • Carowhat says:

        “Most Americans don’t actually care who served in what army..”

        The hell they don’t. No American who served, say, in the Marine Corps, has any respect for another American who, in time of war, chose to fight for a foreign power.

        The Israelis who have contempt for such people are right. If you’re not a wuss, you fight for your own country, not another country 5,000 miles away.

  2. Dan Crowther says:

    If, after 9/11, you’re an american feeling the need to enlist and you happen to be jewish and you join a military that happens to be Israel’s your not dually loyal – you’re a coward.

    • dimadok says:

      It’s hard to see the logic-by joining other military, you’re becoming a coward? Maybe some history lesson is in place here-Spanish Civil War 1936-1939, where Abraham Lincoln Brigade fought against Franco.
      Also here is the list:
      The Lafayette Escadrille in the French Air Force, World War I
      The 7th Air Escadrille in the Polish Air Force, Polish-Soviet War
      The Eagle Squadrons in the Royal Air Force, World War II
      The Flying Tigers in the Chinese Air Force, World War II
      The Lincoln Brigade in the side of the Spanish Republican, Spanish Civil War
      Before the US entered the war, many Americans joined the Canadian Forces, especially the RCAF, and served in ordinary Canadian units.
      You may be a very brave Marine, Dan, but the secret of being a good soldier is to be both brave and smart.

      • Dan Crowther says:

        An American feeling the need to “serve in the military” after 9/11 has plenty of options – he/she can join the US military and run the risk of being killed or wounded by an armed and organized “enemy” — OR, as in this case, you can go shoot kids throwing rocks.

        These cats chose the latter, and for that they are cowards.

        And let me say, I’m hardly very proud of the choice I made. Its not about being “brave” its about integrity. And you’re use of “smart” reinforces my notion that these kids wanted to “serve” and do it the easiest way possible…….

        • dimadok says:

          Read that
          link to forward.com

          and tell me whether Jews do not enlist or die in US military?

        • dimadok, of course there are many american jews who have volunteered and died for their country, the US. i don’t think anyone has argued otherwise.

          The Flying Tigers in the Chinese Air Force, World War II

          my dad was part of the flying tigers. they were not ‘in’ the chinese air force. they were also there before WW2 and their status changed once we entered the war.

        • Dan Crowther says:

          Dimster — no one is saying “Jews dont serve in the US military” or whatever. I would say, not very many do – but thats not the point here. We are talking about a very specific case here, where this kid decided to go full Rambo……in the IDF. While the country of his birth and his upbringing was at war. Whatever one thinks of joining the military, if you are an american feeling the urge, and america is “at war” and you go and enlist in a foreign military (one who is not at war and faces no threats) YOU ARE A COWARD.

        • James North says:

          My dad was also in the Flying Tigers, the 14th Air Force, stationed in Kunming and Kweilin.

        • what a coincidence james…my dad was in the 14th airforce. i thought all the tigers were in the 14th airforce? i think my dad was stationed in kunming, but i could check. he was not a pilot tho. he became a personal friend of gen chennault as well as his wife madame chiang.

        • Carowhat says:

          Of course many Jewish Americans fight (and die) for the United States. No one questions their loyalty or patriotism (and we thank them for their service). It’s the ones who fight for the IDF that makes US vets wonder whose side they’re really on.

        • jimmy says:

          there is a sat out there from the US about US deaths in veitnam..

          catholics 25 %
          protestant 25%

          and that is about the rank in the country too

          however

          jewish .04 %

          out of 2.5%

        • Frankie P says:

          @Annie

          “madam chiang” was the wife of Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek, and I’m sure you had him dancing the spin in his grave by saying that she was married to Chennault, a dreamer who was unable to face the fact that at the time, having air power over an area without control of the land was useless. Chennault claimed in a letter dated October 8, 1942, that with only 105 modern fighters and 30 medium and 12 heavy bombers, he could “accomplish the downfall of Japan…probably within six months, within one year at the outside.” The actual downfall of Japan required three more years and the efforts of the air power of nine air forces operating from India, China, the Pacific and Alaska, a Naval air force which in 1945 amounted to 90 carriers and 14,847 combat aircraft, and ultimately two atom bombs.

      • American says:

        Hump,…. I think you need a history lesson and to develop some smarts yourself dimadok –evidently you dig up stuff without knowing what you are talking about.

        # The Flying Tigers for example were “officially” commissioned by US Presidential directive to help China’s AF in WWII
        # The Lafayette Escadrille “volunteers’ were BEFORE the US entered the war.
        # The Eagle Squadrons were also formed BEFORE the US entered the war.
        # The 7th Air Escadrille was formed AFTER WWI when the US was no longer at war.
        None of the examples you gave apply to what we are saying about US Jews joining the IDF while the US is at war.

      • Woody Tanaka says:

        And in each of those cases, the foreign state was engaged in an active war, while the US was not. Contrast this case, where the US was engaged in two active wars, while the IDF was engaged in nothing but it’s usual terrorist activities. Indeed, since this guy’s age of majority, Israel has been in no wars, but in two massive terror operations against the Lebanese people and the Palestinians in Gaza, as well as the low-intensity calamity against all of the Palestinians, in general.

        • pabelmont says:

          Anyone agree with me (below) that we should wonder a bit about the propaganda that these kids went through before they joined IOF? The Hasbarniki have been busy for many years. Right here in River City.

          I agree about what the IOF has been doing recently, but convinced Zionists (who IMO should be Israelis and NOT Americans if they are THIS convinced) may see a defensive purpose and/or role in the IDF (usual spelling). As a convinced anti-Zionist, I see the role and practices of the IOF a different way, but I wouldn’t expect an ignorant brain-washed kid about 1/4 my age to understand all that.

          Maybe we should learn a little bit about what their parents, friends, relatives, etc., told them about Israel — all surrounded by enemies you know and fighting for its life daily — before being so “down” on them. Many a kid’s life is pretty hard, future uncertain, possibly feeling something of an outside here in USA too.

        • Carowhat says:

          If anyone who is born in the USA feels like an outsider living here, his parents need to enroll in citizenship classes and his community needs a refresher course in what it means to be an American. Hint: it means you cast your lot with your friends and neighbors, not some other group 5,000 miles away.

      • Mooser says:

        “You may be a very brave Marine, Dan, but the secret of being a good soldier is to be both brave and smart.”

        Yeah, that’s the thing about you, dimmy. It’s that completely unpretentious approach, your entire lack of officiousness. Just a regular hail-fellow-well-met kind of guy, who makes fiends wherever he goes.

      • Daniel Rich says:

        @ dimadok,

        A good soldier is a person who’s not emotionally disturbed when orders are barked and courageous when others piss in their pants. Smart ones go to the UK to ‘study’ or fly planes in the US when the proverbial shite hits the fan.

      • Carowhat says:

        The key phrase here is “before the US entered the war.” After WWII began most people served America, not a foreign power. They especially didn’t serve a hostile foreign power.

        And if you say “but Israel isn’t a hostile foreign power,” then obviously you weren’t in the US Navy on June 8th, 1967 when the Israelis attacked the USS Liberty.

    • Pixel says:

      “Few Jewish parents would stop their son or daughter from joining the IDF . Why should they after all? It’s a very safe army to be in; it avoids ground battle and kills from afar. Every Jewish father in the Diaspora must accept that it may be useful for his youngster to learn how to drive a tank, fly a helicopter, or shoot an MK-47. Unlike the shockingly under-equipped Palestinian warriors who die stopping Merkava tanks with their bodies, Israeli soldiers barely ever risk their lives. Making heroic aliyah and joining the IDF seems a relatively safe adventure, at least for the time being.”

      The Wandering Who? by Gilad Atzmon

      • what about all those rocks?

      • dimadok says:

        That was is really happening there-both from the air and face-to-face.
        link to youtu.be
        Watch and learn.

        • uh huh, because israel would never fabricate fake propaganda videos to prove how awesome their soldiers are.

        • dimadok says:

          Oh,oh… I’m sorry I chocked for a moment here. You’re saying the video is fake-cool, I see your argument and present mine: every video from the Palestinian side is edited and faked.
          See how easy it is to be dismissive instead of thinking.

        • dimadok says:

          Also here the link with the name of the officer-read video description

        • every video from the Palestinian side is edited and faked

          yeah, every single video from both side taken from the air that shows people the size of ants shuffling around with explosions going off is fake. i’m glad we agree on something. See how easy it is to be dismissive instead of thinking.

        • oh, the name of the officer! then it must be true. how could i have not thought of that? what’s next, naming the soldier who uploaded the video.

        • dimadok says:

          It was shown on national TV, Channel 10 news, but I guess they also lie….

        • not if they say ‘according to the idf’ they don’t. or do you imagine they verify idf spokespeople?

          anyway, i don’t want to get into a pissing match. the iof has yet to release the mavi marmara footage stolen from the passengers or their original footage. they’ve lied so many times, baldfaced lies..there’s no compelling reason to believe anything they say. which is not to say they always lie. just whenever it suits them. no matter how big (USS LIBERTY) or small.

          the US military lies too mind you, like this latest thing of the disappearing witnesses to the multiple drunk laughing soldiers in afghanistan and the one lone soldier commiting the slaughter and the video that finally sprung up after 5 days…pllllease.

        • Woody Tanaka says:

          “That was is really happening there-both from the air and face-to-face.”

          So what? Too bad he got away. Get off of the Palestinians’ land. You’ve only yourself to blame when your soldiers and people get killed.

        • Daniel Rich says:

          @ dimadok,

          Yeah, what you see on TV is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

          link to youtube.com

          or be come a superhero link to superheronation.com

        • woody, obviously you didn’t watch the video. it was one of these miraculous feats (like jessica lynch’s rescue) where the idf man picked up one of the palestinian militants and used him as a human shield as the grenade was flying towards him from the other palestinian militant. allegedly.

        • Terryscott says:

          Really, Annie. I think you can do better. Admit the video is probably authentic (as it almost certainly is).

        • nnnnah, i tend to assume liars are lying, unless there’s some compelling reason to believe otherwise.

          Really, terry. I think you can do better. Admit the video is probably not authentic (as it almost certainly is not).

          see how easy that was.

        • Terryscott says:

          I think I’m with Dimadok here. When Israel fabricates something, and they do, it’s usually revealed immediately. Same with Pallywood . . .although the Mohammed al-Durah case is still unraveling, ten years on.

        • I think I’m with Dimadok here.

          i am shocked. by all means click on his name, find his archives, and inform us of one comment of dimadoks you do not agree with.

          When Israel fabricates something, and they do, it’s usually revealed immediately.

          like this link to mondoweiss.net

          ?

        • Terryscott says:

          So, Annie, the video is fake?

        • dimadok says:

          But of course it is fake! And IDF being fighting all those wars, having cowards for the soldiers. I wonder how did they managed that. I am going cry now, being a cowardly and soft IDF reservist.

        • cowards, not cowards..what difference does it make if their prey is imprisoned and the idf use dogs to do their dirty work. besides, i didn’t mention cowards. i said i tend to assume liars are lying, and i do.

        • Terryscott says:

          I’ve agreed that Jews, like Palestinian Muslims, sometimes lie for the purpose of nationalistic propaganda. What I’d like to know is what aspect of it do you find unbelievable?

        • i didn’t say i thought it was unbelievable. the israeli gov is obsessed with promoting themselves. and then of course it just had to be filmed whereas when they are committing war crimes it is not filmed. they produce these little films all the time for the purpose of hasbara. the first one i saw was some alleged stuff that ‘proved’ something in lebanon. but then you watch it and it ‘proved’ nothing.

          so, after seeing a lot of these fuzzy ‘proof’ films heavily promoted on some blogs with little circles around little moving people i came to the conclusion they were producing and distributing them as a matter of policy to promote a ptv. iow, it’s propaganda. so, there may be some truth in some of them but 9 chances out of 10 they are probably lies or tampered with. nothing about it is unbelievable, they are not that stupid. it’s not like they have their heroes flying thru the air like superman.

          like i said, liars lie. that is the overriding logic for me to assume it’s not true, that and the fact it’s being used to promote the iof, something the israeli foreign ministry is very proficient in.

          hope that clear that up.

        • Terryscott says:

          “9 chances out of 10 they are probably lies or tampered with”

          Well at least you have an irrefutable mathematical formula at your side!

          But seriously, that doesn’t clear it up. You repeatedly say the reason you think it’s a lie is because “liars lie.” So Israeli Jews are, by nature or inclination, liars, so what they produce is lies. That’s resorting to racist essentialism, as I’m sure you can see. You hear this all the time in Turkey–Kurds are liars. Israelis say the same thing, Arab Muslims lie all the time. But that’s not an argument. It’s not even the start of a discussion.

        • That’s resorting to racist essentialism

          it would be, if i said it. i only reference the goi and their foreign ministry. but just for the hoot of it i’ll tag on the idf spokepeople. they are famous for lying.

    • Dan, I think the common perception is that these guys are more loyal to Israel than to the US, their country of birth, and that explains the cool reception back home from the majority of Americans who are not Israel-lovers.

      The term ‘dual-loyalty’ is often simply a euphemism for primary loyalty to a foreign country that represents the person’s ethnicity.

      • Dan Crowther says:

        Yeah – I get that Thomson, I just personally think clowns like these are more interested in proving their tough guy bona fides – only the way they go about it is as cowardly as can be imagined. I doubt its out of loyalty…..

  3. American says:

    I can see a young fellow who has been raised on some identity emotion for a foreign country going off to join their armed forces “if” that country is embroiled in some great war and the US isn’t embroiled in one at the same time.
    I probably wouldn’t have much of a problem with that.
    I can’t see one doing that if that other country isn’t in some significant war, just to serve the other country as a sign of loyalty.
    What I have a big problem with is those who do that when the US is involved in actual combat wars and they don’t join the US military to serve but do go join the IDF.
    I think a fair law would be that if someone leaves the US to join a foreign military during our time(s) of war instead of serving the US then they should have their citizenship revoked and not be able to come back.

  4. Pixel says:

    “A common phrase used by Israelis to describe the foreign soldiers who came to join the IDF is the Yiddish slur “freier,” which is somewhere between a fool and a sucker. “

    There you go.

    • pnkfloid says:

      “freier, which is somewhere between a fool and a sucker. ”

      Sadly and unfortunately, Jewish kids in the U.S. who sign up for the israeli army and young Americans who joined the U.S. Army after 9/11 are equally “fieiers” – each group feeling the respective group they identify with is under attack, each convinced that they are doing the honorable thing by joining the army, to fight in what are in fact completely dishonorable, unjust wars/attacks. Isn’t that what generals count on?

  5. American says:

    Good for this guy he is living in NY, he wouldn’t be able to get a job as dog catcher in most parts of the country with a resume showing he took off to join the Israeli military instead of the US after 911.

  6. IDF stint does not seemed to have hurt Rahm Emmanuel…

    • Carowhat says:

      This is the unfortunate truth. Still, there is hope. The last two governors of Illinois are currently behind bars. Perhaps it’s not a stretch to think that the current Chicago mayor might one day join them.

  7. American says:

    This reminds me of a argument I had back when I use to comment on Dkos occasionally. I had a running debate with a former IDF guy who immigrated to the US and was by and large in dove camp on I/P in that he was against the occupation but strongly pro Israel.
    I ask him one time how he would deal with it and which side he would fall on when the US and Israeli interest finally collided one day in a big way.
    He said that would never happen.
    People like this live in denial of reality and even common sense where it concerns Israel.
    There was another, what appeared to be young squirt, pro Israel poster that chimed in and said if the US and Israel ever squared off he would take up arms against the US.
    This is where dual loyalty and being raised on loyalty to another country gets you.
    This where a lot of Jews will forever be between the rock and hard place of their Israel creation.
    Maybe they can “manage it’ in normal times but imo Israel is eventually going to force a choice on them of the US or Israel.

    • I ask him one time how he would deal with it and which side he would fall on when the US and Israeli interest finally collided one day in a big way.

      that reminds me of this interesting conversation on bloggingheads between Sarah Posner (Religion Dispatches, God’s Profits) and Sarah Wildman (PBS). sarah talks about dual loyalty and the kinds of questions they would banter back and forth as children growing up. it has been a few weeks since i have seen it..but it was interesting, this part relating to that scenario.

      link to bloggingheads.tv

    • Carowhat says:

      I few years ago I read a story about a Jewish-American who went to Israel to fight in the IDF. When this was announced, his synagogue sprang to its feet in a standing ovation. Somehow I don’t think that would have happened if the announcement had said he’d left to join the US Marines.

  8. Les says:

    It was never a problem for Israeli agent posing as American journalist, Corporal Jeffrey Goldberg.

  9. Daniel Rich says:

    Clooney and Gere will always be arrested outside of any embassy but the Israeli.

  10. Daniel Rich says:

    As Yiddish is firmly rooted in the German language, ‘freier’ rings a different bell to those who speak/understand it link to en.bab.la …, but what do I know?

  11. If they really care about Israel, they should stage a coup there and jail Netanjahu for warmongering.