Teymoor Nabili is awesome in this Talk with Al Jazeera interview with Israel's Deputy Prime Minister Dan Meridor in Jerusalem last week. Meridor is also Minister of Intelligence and Atomic Energy with a background in Iran issues. Hence, the interview is focused on Iran.
Nabili noticed something unusual and writes about it on Al Jazeera's blog:
Was it a momentary lapse of concentration or an honest admission? ......It's when I challenged him on the biggest talking point of all, Iran's supposed determination to "wipe Israel off the face of the map," that Meridor seemed to stumble outside the lines of the agreed narrative.
Meridor: [Iran's leaders] all come basically ideologically, religiously with the statement that Israel is an unnatural creature, it will not survive. They didn't say 'we'll wipe it out', you are right, but [that] it will not survive, it is a cancerous tumor, it should be removed;
Nabili: Well, I am glad you acknowledged they didn't say they will wipe it out, because certainly Israeli politicians…
Meridor: … they say it will be removed, needs to be removed …
The minister spent much of the ensuing conversation arguing that for Iran to simply question Israel's long term future amounts to an existential threat; there are many who agree with him.
But it's his acknowledgement that there's nuance in Iran's position that's so significant, and so rare.
(Hat Tip Mondoweiss commenter PeaceThroughJustice)
Don’t worry. Hoppy will be by soon to tell us how Dan Meridor didn’t say what he said, or didn’t mean what he meant or otherwise try to spin up into down and black into white.
Let’s face it: no cancer wants to be removed, taken out, even slowed in its growth. Unconstrained growth is what cancers do. How do you know if your duck is a cancer? If your duck grows as if unconstrained in spite of all. If it appears worried about being removed even by wannabe surgeons who don’t know how to remove it and anyhow cannot remove it. Cancers worry a lot about being removed. That’s another thing that cancer ducks do.
Do I need to find three things that cancer ducks do?
Should a cancer duck be removed? Only if you think the body will die of something other than the cancer, and sooner.
Imagine what Israel would become if all the Palestinians were dead or transferred? What would be left for the horribles to do? Would they sit back and take up mah jong? Or attack distant states that they talk themselves into believing are “existential threats”? Maybe just take over southern Lebanon for the water and some of Jordan, as the revisionists talked about.
@ pabelmont,
This particular ‘cancer duck’ is on record as attacking ‘band aids,’ both foreign and domestic.
pable
What the hell is this reference to ‘cancer ducks’. I ask because you often have sensible things to say but this makes little sense.
duct perhaps..
TovioS I think pablemont is probably referring to the Duck Test:
link to en.wikipedia.org
If Israel acts looks a cancer, acts like a cancer etc…
What about this?
“Ladies and Gentlemen, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then what is it?” Mr Netanyahu asked. “That’s right, it’s a duck – but this duck is a nuclear duck. And it’s time the world started calling a duck a duck.”
Speaking of Iranian ducks:
In his latest Iran report over here (04/2012) an German-Iranian friend wrote that the numbers of people in Iran watching the BBC’s Farsi program, created in 2009, have doubled in one year. The numbers suggest that every fourth Iranian watches the BBC’s program.
Given the constant pressure against Iran, it’s no big surprise Ahmadinejad, lost in the last election, with one third of the population not voting, against the even more conservative camp.
Some will remember, we had someone here (the initials will suffice: RW) who constantly attacked us that putting pressure on Israel would only force them to move to the right. Now obviously this wasn’t something he felt about Iranians, the Iranian nuclear program was after is far to dangerous, to give it people a chance for him. This seems to be the future president. Since Ahmadinejad’s power is already gone, maybe people here can adjust their focus on what the real or future powers say.
FWIW I picked up a tidbit on the Iranian government. Whatever was said, it was said by president Ahmadinejad. In Iran the President has no authority of any kind over the military. Therefore anyone claiming he made a threat that he could implement is either ignorant of the situation or is lying. One does expect Netanyahu to know this.
@ Matt Giwer,
Ahmadinejad quoted Khomeini:
“Sorry that I misremembered the exact phrase Ahmadinejad had used. He made an analogy to Khomeini’s determination and success in getting rid of the Shah’s government, which Khomeini had said “must go” (az bain bayad berad). Then Ahmadinejad defined Zionism not as an Arabi-Israeli national struggle but as a Western plot to divide the world of Islam with Israel as the pivot of this plan.
The phrase he then used as I read it is “The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] from the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad).”
Ahmadinejad was not making a threat, he was quoting a saying of Khomeini and urging that pro-Palestinian activists in Iran not give up hope– that the occupation of Jerusalem was no more a continued inevitability than had been the hegemony of the Shah’s government.” link to juancole.com
Seems to me from that quote that what he was saying was that Iranian leaders didn’t say the actual words “wipe it out”, but that their actual words were the equivalent. That they said it should be removed, with the implication being that it should be removed by Iran and that is what Iran would do. His spending the rest of the interview trying to correct the host’s misunderstanding of what he was saying suggests that that is exactly what happened.
Oh, I knew one of our resident losers would try to spin this. I really thought it would be hoppy. I guess it’s Freddo’s turn in the barrel…
Jeez Freddy, baby, I was just about to leave for Israel (we call that making Alli-oop) and now you tell me that in Israel you have to be afraid, very afraid, of what the leader of a second-and-a-half world country says?
The hell with alli-oops, I’m staying put.
After all, the only anti-Semitism I have to put up with here is Christmas decorations and Easter eggs. And the January sales and cheap left-over chocolate more than make up for it.
I think I’ll go bite the head off a chocolate bunny. That’ll show ‘em!
It is good you are visiting whine country. (apologies to Sarah Silverman)
he was saying was that Iranian leaders didn’t say the actual words “wipe it out”, but that their actual words were the equivalent
there’s actually a section on this in the hasbara handbook called false equivalency yet utilizing many of the same principle as as the game of telephone in the destruction mantra. that’s how israel supporters justify the (constant) allegation everyone is trying to destroy israel. so let me ask you this, if the words were the equivalent, why not just use the original words?
the implication being that it should be removed
so you start out by chucking the original words and latch onto your version of “equivalent”, then you extract an implication from your version of equivalent.
with the implication being that it should be removed by Iran
and after chucking the original words and latching onto your version of “equivalent”, then you extract an implication from your version of equivalent and THEN you extract a second implication from your original implication.
so simple and clear, why didn’t i think of that. and there’s more
and that is what Iran would do
is that all? why stop there? shouldn’t we take this further and look at the equivalence of Iran wiping israel off map? doesn’t that imply the samson option would be implemented? why not just say iran has threatened to blow up the world because that would be the implication? wouldn’t it. every man woman and child, the end of humanity. that’s really iran’s goal isn’t it? or their actual words were the equivalent. so why go for the words when we can take them to their logical conclusion as you have demonstrated so logically?
Why not use the exact words? How about “why use the exact words”? People can say things in many different ways. Why should someone who wants to destroy Israel use a specific particular idiom that probably doesn’t exist in Farsi? Why did I say “Hi”, instead of “hello” or “hey” this morning when I greeted someone? Why did I say “see ya” instead of “good bye” at the end of the day to someone? That’s just being pedantic.
What Ahmedinejad said was that the Ayatola ordered that “the regime in Jerusalem” (“the zionist regime”, or “the regime in Jerusalem” or similar obfuscations is the closest he or his Ayatola ever comes to saying “Israel”, real mature guys, so it just means “Israel”) “must be made to vanish from the page of time”. Since neither the Ayatola, nor Ahmedinejad has any legal authority over either Israel as a whole or the democratically elected government of Israel, the idea that he meant the government of Israel and not the country is absurd.
BTW, “wiped off the map” isn’t something Israel came up with. It is what the official Islamic Republic News Agency decided was an accurate idiomatic translation into English of what Ahmedinejad said in Farsi.
Clearly a threat to destroy Israel. Clear to anyone who isn’t an Iran apologist, that is.
Yeah. A threat to destroy Israel. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING like what Zionism has done to Palestine.
At least somebody who’s an apologist for Iran isn’t an advocate for people who kill whole families to steal land, sets fire to schoolchildren and hospital patients, etc. Too bad you can’t say the same, Fred.
@ Fredblogs,
“Sorry that I misremembered the exact phrase Ahmadinejad had used. He made an analogy to Khomeini’s determination and success in getting rid of the Shah’s government, which Khomeini had said “must go” (az bain bayad berad). Then Ahmadinejad defined Zionism not as an Arabi-Israeli national struggle but as a Western plot to divide the world of Islam with Israel as the pivot of this plan.
The phrase he then used as I read it is “The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] from the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad).”
Ahmadinejad was not making a threat, he was quoting a saying of Khomeini and urging that pro-Palestinian activists in Iran not give up hope– that the occupation of Jerusalem was no more a continued inevitability than had been the hegemony of the Shah’s government.” – link to juancole.com
Go ahead, do your centrifuge magic on this one…
Oh come on fredly – so why don’t your guys quote word for word? Why don’t your lying criminal leaders say Iran ACTUALLY said that “israel is a cancerous tumor that should be removed from the middle east”?
Is it because they’re a buncha lying scum land thieves and slo-mo ethnic cleansers who need to start another war over there in iran while they continue, without a spotlight, to kill, main and imprison Palestinians young and old in the holy land?
If I’m wrong then why don’t you tell me why are israelis choosing willfully to misquote and dramatize? Help us understand would ya.
What Israel said was that the US ordered that “the regime in Iran” (……….. so it just means “Iran”) …… Since neither the US, nor Israel has any legal authority over either Iran as a whole or the democratically elected government of Iran, the idea that they meant the government of Iran and not the country is absurd. ….Clearly a threat to destroy Iran. Clear to anyone who isn’t an Israel apologist, that is.
What US said was that the UN ordered that “the regime in Syria” (……….. so it just means “Syria”) …… Since neither the UN, nor US has any legal authority over either Syria as a whole or the
democratically electedgovernment of Syria, the idea that they meant the government of Syria and not the country is absurd. ….Clearly a threat to destroy Syria. Clear to anyone who isn’t an UN apologist, that is.What France/US said was that the UN ordered that “the regime in Libya” (……….. so it just means “Libya”) …… Since neither the UN, nor France/US has any legal authority over either Libya as a whole or the
democratically electedgovernment of Libya, the idea that they meant the government of Libya and not the country is absurd. ….Clearly a threat to destroy Libya. Clear to anyone who isn’t an US/France apologist, that is.“Clearly a threat to destroy Israel.”
Yeah, and clearly Poland threatened Germany in September 1939.
Yeah, because the Shah government was replaced without mass murder and expulsion of the prior group in power (which in Israel would be the Jews). Oh, wait, no it wasn’t. Also, I believe “must be made to vanish”, not “must vanish” is more accurate. From what I have read the verb used was active, not passive.
“Yeah, because the Shah government was replaced without mass murder and expulsion of the prior group in power (which in Israel would be the Jews).”
And at this moment, Iranian agents are very close, this close to fomenting a violent Jew-againt-Jew revolution in Israel, in which Israeli Jews, spurred on by Iranians, will mass-murder other Israeli Jews and install an Islamic government.
Well, if the place is that unstable, I am definitely not making Aliyah until things settle out.
Removing could be construed as “wiping out” as Israel has been removing with inducemnets, flase buying,and forcibly removing with guns and bullets the original inhabitants of Palestine . Fredblogs has uncovered the inner workings of israeli mind. I am sure Ahmednezad has asked or demanded that Europe should take the Israeli back . Again in line with this thinking exposing the symmetry of projection and the desire , Fredblogs might add that all Israel wanted and still want is Palestine to disappear to rest of Arab lands or more pointedly ” Arab should atke them back” menawhile the wiping out by forced dieting ,cutting electricty off, denying access to sea or plain waging Operatin Cast lead willl be seen as an honest attempt to implemnet that divine dream and shjould not be raised to human consiousness as that would be antisemitism.
Dan Meridor is equally right to see the symmetry between the reality of the history and his projection to AHMEDNEZAD OF” basically ideologically, religiously ” based threat as the religion -inspired demand for Israel from 1889 received idelogical support from leftist, communist,and later on from Evangelicals which assumed some one had to be removed to make room for the ideology and the religion to take root.
Fredblogs: they said it should be removed, with the implication being that it should be removed by Iran and that is what Iran would do. No, it was never their implication, it was the willfully misleading inference you and others chose to draw. Ahmadinejad has said repeatedly that he wishes to see Israel the Jewish State disappear like the Soviet Union and South Africa apartheid. He has never threatened to use Iran’s military against Israel. Many people openly and vocally wished for the end of the Soviet empire, or right-wing dictatorships all over the world, without actually threatening to use military power to do so. Meridor seems to have been temporarily afflicted with truth serum, poor guy. Let’s see if he pays a price for his temporary insanity — a rare moment of honesty.
If you’re keeping score, the tally of actual military threats is a follows:
Israel against Iran 12,475,390 Iran against Israel 0. The tally of actual military attacks on other countries is maybe dozens to 0. And Israel whines about Gunter Grass!
“And Israel whines about Gunter Grass!”
And the insistence of the early Zionists that the desert could be made to bloom with fine vintages is fullfilled! Israel produces some of the finest whines in the world. But you gotta drink ‘em quick! They don’t age well. In fact, they seem to just fall apart if not consumed immediately.
LOL!!!
RE: “Iran didn’t threaten to ‘wipe’ Israel out — Israel’s deputy prime minister”
MY COMMENT: Will wonders never cease?
FROM WIKIPEDIA [ Foreign policy of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad ]:
SOURCE – link to en.wikipedia.org
P.S. Back in 20078 when there was a big push to “bomb, bomb, bomb Iran” (Norman Podhoretz was just a prayin’, and a prayin’, and a prayin’), our genius of a president (who saw his job as being responsible for “catapulting the propaganda”) repeatedly said one of the stupidest things I have ever heard. Namely, that “you have to take a man at his word”. The “man” at that time being the all-purpose boogeyman Ahmadinejad, and “the word” being that “Israel should be wiped off the map”. Consequently, taking “the man” at “his [mistranslated] word” meant that Iran was an “existential threat” to Israel that needed to be eliminated.
NOW (AT THE RISK OF PROMPTING MAYHEM), NOTICE HOW THE HASBARA HANDBOOK (pages 24-25) SUGGESTS USING QUOTES TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT:
SOURCE, “HASBARA HANDBOOK: Promoting Israel on Campus”, published by the World Union of Jewish Students, March 2002 – link to scribd.com
i’m watching the video again now and at 4:30 he confronts him on this question, meridor sort of droops his eyes for a sec and does a little gulp. it’s amusing.
Dan Meridor was the press secretary for Begin & Sharon during Israel’s 1982 invasion of Lebanon. As the disastrous invasion proceeded, the stories Meridor told the press became so discredited that the press nicknamed him “Meridor the inventor”. Even the Israeli press.
“[Iran's leaders] all come basically ideologically, religiously with the statement that Israel is an unnatural creature, it will not survive.”
There seems to me to be a basic truth to the statement. Israel misrepresents itself and in many ways is not what it appears to be. At the most basic level, these are not Jews “returning home.” Not just the lineage, mind you, but the cultural orientation. The Jewish Israelis do not appear to respect the Middle Eastern culture (supposedly of their ancestors), rather they identify with the European Ashkenazi culture of their founders. It is an unnatural creature that exists as a consequence of imperial support upon which it depends to maintain the status quo, even so far as being integrated into the US European Command, not the Central Command responsible for the rest of the Middle East. This is exactly what the founders had in mind as the following quotes indicate.
“Supposing his Majesty the Sultan were to give us Palestine ..We should there form an outpost of civilization as opposed to barbarism.” (Theodor Herzl, 1896) (Quoted in “The Hidden History of Zionism” by Ralph Schoenman)
“Ben-Gurion had always seen the Jewish state as part of the West, not as part of the region: a Middle East without Western colonialism would be too dangerous for Israel; Israel could and should be turned into an American strategic asset in the region.” (“Imperial Israel and the Palestinians,” Nur Masalha)
Keith, I really doubt that Herzl’s vision was of a modern Israel reverting to a Biblical mindset. It seems to me Israel has indeed become a Middle East culture, though one from over two millennia ago except with modern weapons. Remember the spectators cheering as the white phosphorus descended on the hapless residents of Gaza like the hand of God smiting the enemies of “his people”. But perhaps you are right and such behaviour was typical of European Ashkenazi culture. I just don’t recall reading about it.
As for Ben-Gurion, perhaps he was just identifying the need to subvert the US political establishment to ensure Israel had unquestioned support from the dominant superpower. After all, I really don’t think Eisenhower saw or treated Israel as an American strategic asset. Indeed, for a longtime the US cultivated the Saudis as their key strategic asset in the Middle East. But I really think the Arabists lost their grip on the State department as a consequence of the WASPs losing their grip on the ruling class. I would say the departure of Bush Senior from the White House and James Baker from State marked the end of that era.
LIBRA- “Keith, I really doubt that Herzl’s vision was of a modern Israel reverting to a Biblical mindset.”
In the two quotes, both Herzl and Ben-Gurion saw Israel as an appendage of imperial power supporting empire’s designs in Arabia. Currently, Israel has independent goals in the region that seem at least somewhat congruent with imperial geo-strategy. I have seen no indication that Israel has any intention of integrating itself into the Middle East at peace with its neighbors, with any crosspollination of cultures. In other words, Israel was and remains an unnatural alien presence maintained by imperial support.
“It seems to me Israel has indeed become a Middle East culture….”
Jeez, I don’t see this at all. During the Nakba, the Zionists intentionally destroyed hundreds of Palestinian villages, tore up olive trees and planted evergreens reminiscent of Europe, not the Middle East. The intent was to destroy any reminders of the Palestinians and their culture. The original Zionists mostly constructed Tel Aviv rather than live in the “sacred” Jerusalem. Currently, Israel is a land of modern European architecture rather than traditional, or influenced by tradition, and heavily polluted to boot. Not surprising considering that most Israelis look down on the Arabs and their culture, and identify with Western culture and “progress.”
Referring to a historic building, Ilan Pappe writes: “Today the house is no longer there, a victim of development, which has razed this architectural relic to the ground to make room for a car park next to the new Sheraton Hotel. Thus, in this street, too, no trace is left of the ‘White City’, which has slowly transmogrified into the sprawling, polluted, extravagant metropolis that is modern Tel Aviv.”
Dan Meridor was a shade out of his depth, they shouldn’t really have let him loose.
Going back to the ‘face of the earth’. I understand Ahmadinejad, who spoke in Farsi, was quoting something Imam Khomeini said on his return from exile in Paris after the regime of the Shah had vanished from the page of time. One could as well argue the comment discourages anyone from seeking to accomplish the removal of the regime in Jerusalem since it will happen anyway, as it does with all regimes. Herbert Stein’s Law: “If something cannot go on forever, it will stop”. Thus there is no need to do anything at all as it will stop of its own accord.
For those who deny what the terrorist regime of the Islamic Republic has said time and time again:
“Ahmadenijad constantly states “marg bar Israel” which means “death to Israel”. Ahmadenijad in a speech on February 20th, 2008 stated, “In the Middle East, they [the global powers] have created a black and filthy microbe called the Zionist regime.”
More importantly, what comes out of the Supreme Animal’s Khamenei’s mouth? On December 15, 2000, he declared on Islamic Republic State TV: “Iran’s position, which was first expressed by the Imam [Khomeini] and
stated several times by those responsible, is that the cancerous tumor called Israel must be uprooted from the region.”
During military parades, they have slogans draped “Israel must be wiped off the map” over the missiles in military parades. In addition, similar slogans and signs are present at every Friday prayer.
In an address to the “World without Zionism” conference in Tehran on October 26, 2005, Ahmadenijad said, “Va Imam-e-aziz-e-ma farmudand ke in rezhim-e- eshghalgar-e Qods bayad az safhe-ye ruzegar mahv shaved. In jomle besyar hakimane ast” which translates to “Our dear Imam [Khomeini] ordered that this Jerusalem occupying regime [Israel] must be erased from the page of time. This was a very wise statement”.
In addition in the same speech he added: “Be-zudi in lake-ye nang ra az damane donya-ye Islam pak khahad kard, va in shodani’st” which translates to: “Soon this stain of disgrace will be cleaned from the garment of the world of Islam and this is attainable”.
Further examples include a speech on April 14, 2006 which he stated, “Derakht-e khoshkide va puside’i ast ke ba yek tufan dar ham khahad shekat” which translates to: “A dried, rotten tree that will collapse with a single storm”. Furthermore during a military parade on April 17, 2008 referring to the U.S. and Israel he stated: “Mantage-va jehan amade-ye tahavolat-e bozorg va pak shodan az doshmanan-e ahrimani’st” which translates to: “The region and the world are prepared for great changes and for being cleansed of Satanic enemies”. Again, on May 14, 2008 in a city called Gorgan he stated: “Israel’s days are numbered” and that “the people’s of the region would not miss the narrowest opportunity to annihilate this false regime” and he continued, “Thanks to god, your wish will soon be realized, and this germ of corruption will be wiped off the face of the world”.
THIS IDEOLOGY IS AT THE CORE OF THIS REGIME SINCE KHOMEINI as Khomeini always declared he would destroy Israel as the “reconquering” of Jerusalem is necessary for the “return of the hidden imam”.
To go back to the Supreme Animal Khamenei, he stated on January 15, 2001 at a meeting with organizers of the International Conference for Support of the Intifada, “The foundation of the Islamic regime is opposition to Israel and the perpetual subject of Iran is the elimination of Israel from the region” and in fact the original translation by Islamic Republic journalists were “It is the mission of the Islamic Republic of Iran to erase Israel from the map of the region”.
One of Khamenei’s top Ayatollah’s, Ayatollah Shariatmadari stated on October 4, 2007: “Death to America and Death to Israel are not only words written on paper but rather a symbolic approach that reflects the desire of all the Muslim nations”.
Ayatollah Janati: “The blind enemies should see that the wish of these people is the death of America and Israel”.
General Safavi (Revolutionary Guards): “With god’s help the time has come for the Zionist regime’s death sentence” (February 2008). and in Hamadan on February 23, 2008 he stated: “Death of this unclean regime [Israel] will arrive soon following the revolt of the Muslims”.
The thug Mohammad-Ali Ramin: on June 9, 2006: “Among the Jews there have always been those who killed god’s prophets and who opposed justice and righteousness. Historically, there are many accusations against the Jews. For example, it was said that they were the source for such deadly diseases as the plague and typhus. This is because the Jews are very filthy people. For a time people also said that they poisoned water wells belonging to Christians and thus killed them”.
Ayatollah Nuri Hamadani in April 2005, “One should fight the Jews and vanquish them so that the conditions for the advent of the Hidden Imam will be met” and he continued, “at present the Jews’ policies threaten us. One should explain in the clearest terms the danger the Jews pose to the [Iranian] people and to the Muslims. Already from the beginning the Jews wanted to hoard the world’s goods in their greed and voracity. They always worked in important professions and now they have hoarded all of the wealth in one place. And all of the world, especially America and Europe, are their slaves”.
General Mohammad-Ali Jafari in February 2008 in a message to Hassan Nasrallah: “In the near future, we will witness the destruction of the cancerous microbe Israel by the strong and capable hands of the nation of Hizbollah”.
Former foreign minister Mottaki on February 18, 2008: “The west has tried to impose a fabricated regime on the Middle East, but after sixty years, the Zionist regime [Israel] has neither gained any legitimacy nor played any role in this region”.
Majles speaker Adel in February 2008 stated, “The countdown has begun for the destruction of the Zionist regime”.
What the hell else do you want to prove this regime is a threat?? How about a documentary produced by the regime in which Khamenei, Hassan Nasrallah, and Ahmadenijad are portrayed as key members of the Hadith whom will usher in the return of the “Hidden Imam” in which conquering Jerusalem is a prerequisite and the end-goal is to spread Islam to “all corners of the Earth” in a worldwide chaos in which 2/3rd of humanity will “perish through death, havoc,and famine? And they believe that the Middle East freedom movements are all a part of an “Islamic Awakening” for this end – simply go to youtube and search “The Coming is Upon Us”
I open with the obvious. Jews wiped Palestine off the map. No one gives a rat’s ass. Why would anyone give an equal ass of a rat if the same happened to Israel?
In fact I will also end with that.
If you love the asses of rats I have no opinion on your rat preferences.
But a rational does expect an end to the Jewish military tyranny over millions of non-Jews real soon now.
I am guessing that either moderators are getting sloppy
or that Phil is just tired of censoring every antisemitic scumbag that
writes in this blog i personally believe that people should be allowed to speak their mind on whatever they want and not have to hide their ideas behind PC bullshit.
Nor should they be confined by the extremist leftist anarchist strictures of sentence structure, spelling or punctuation. And the space between quote marks should be an open country, not a prison camp of veracity!
“censoring every antisemitic scumbag that
writes in this blog”
LMAO. Noun, verb, “antisemitism.” Who knew that rats were antisemitic??
“Who knew that rats were antisemitic??”
We’ve already established that trees, ducks, sheep, and five-year-olds are antisemitic. Why expect rats to be any different?
Why not sign stuff personally?
link to informationliberation.com
I first saw this story in Haaretz in the morning. It was something by Amos Harel. He said that Eisen was not removed for his violence but for his stupidity. Harel then goes on to say that his action was stupid because it caused Israel to look bad in the PR department. I went back tonight to find the link at Haaretz but it was gone.
Sometimes Haaretz tries to be “progressive” but when all is said it really is Zionist.
thanks for reminding me Toivo, i read that earlier too. just found it on my computers history. btw, israel is 8 hrs in front of us, as a result they change their features during our early evenings.
link to haaretz.com
no need to worry about US broadcasters!
ot, but i think this is really funny. it reminded me i shot off an email to phil earlier about the most absurd comment i saw in the talkbacks of that article. now maybe my soh is just a little tweaked but i couldn’t stop laughing. check this out:
!!!!
He defends the Jewish state and her people. NYC leftists like “Dr. Shechter” were instrumental in the defeat of US foreign policy in SE Asia. When her side won – the communist side – two million Cambodians were murdered.
unhinged. an example of why democratic politics is dead. how can a reasonable consensus on anything of importance be reached with psychotics like ‘a levy’? punishing israeli thugs leads to . . . .? why, another genocide, of course.
i swear, my reaction was such i really had to pinch myself. i think it could have been, it was as if, some kind of valve bursting over the absurdity of the entire weekend. what a massive confluence of events considering all the unhinged efforts taken by the state to prevent the activists from coming coupled with what only could have been an intended PR effort by the apartheid state to advertize their ‘sovereignty’ and then i read this. just too funny. two million Cambodians were murdered!
my wife and i have relatives who fought in vietnam, so i try to tread lightly on the subject, and certainly avoid assigning personal responsibility for the war, but all this ‘stab in the back’ nonsense is too much to bear. that’s the refrain that german fascists used after the ‘humiliation’ of wwI; the stab in the back. funny that ‘a levy’ would resort to it so quickly given the historical context.
>> The officer in question should be prasied
>> He defends the Jewish state and her people.
The officer of the Jewish State Terrorism Forces enforces the Jewish state’s ON-GOING occupation of Palestine. He brutalizes foreign citizens outside of the Jewish state
‘s19481967borders. He makes the religion-supremacist state and her* people less safe.(*Love the use of the feminine possessive adjective to make Israel seem more vulnerable, more likely to be a victim than an aggressor. Very “clever”.)
A. Levy is one of those idiots who believe that people “hate Israel for its freedoms”.
Harel then goes on to say that his action was stupid because it caused Israel to look bad in the PR department.
Reminds me of this: link to guardian.co.uk
Well he was being stupid and what is worse i would expect an officer meant to lead his troops into battle to show more cool in the face of demonstrators however annoying they can be.
What is actually funny in this story that last year the same guy had to disperse
a similar bike demonstration by settlers and he was accused by them of being disloyal
and brutal.
link?
Why bother , you only see what you want to see and believe in what you
want to believe.
That Iranian guy argument below is a great example.
You can’t
prove/disprove that he is not Iranian but since what he says just contradicts your beliefs you just go with them since it just feels more comfortable.
Just to humor you how about this little reel of police brutality against settlers.
link to youtube.com
iow you have absolutely nothing to support this fantasy the same guy had to disperse a similar bike demonstration by settlers and instead you’d like to offer us another video, for the hell of it.
what are you making up stories?
Annie you are not an interrogator i am not under interrogation
i don’t owe you links or proof or anything else unless i choose to provide
them.
You can either believe me on this one or not your choice .
The video i provided only showed the way that police or army sometimes treat settlers, if you wish to comment on that please do otherwise
let’s move on.
I have followed Haaretz for years. This happens to all the damning news. The edition is usually by 7pm EST. Use ctrl-s a lot. Pay special attention to the editorials. No matter what the lead in sentence that starts it, it has to be true else the rest would be nonsense. Israel’s weird daylight savings time pushing to 8pm when in effect.
Also the English language versions are censored. For example, I read a Haaretz editorial saying that the Hebrew version of an article contained a description of the fearless IDF using Palestinians as human shields in violation of the Geneva conventions, Israeli law and its court decisions.
I also get the strong impression it is illegal to mention censorship in Israel.
Regarding a couple of Meridor’s assertions, he says that Iranian officials making statements about Israel’s disappearance, illegitimacy or destruction has no parallel in the world today and should be of grave international concern. Then, what about US & Israel obstructing and subverting self-determination for a people, which is recognized by the rest of the world and various international organizations? Does that have a parallel in today’s world and should that be a focus of international concern?
As for his repeated statements that major Arab countries have expressed grave concerns regarding Iran’s acquisition of nuclear weapons, but none have expressed such concerns regarding Israel’s arsenal, that’s true if by the “Arab world” he means its ruling elites. As Foreign Policy argues, based on polls in various Arab countries, @
link to mideast.foreignpolicy.com
w/ the title “Misreading Arab public opinion on Iran’s nuclear program,”
“The vast majority of the Arab public does not believe that Iran poses a threat to the “security of the Arab homeland.” Only 5 percent of respondents named Iran as a source of threat, versus 22 percent who named the U.S. The first place was reserved for Israel, which 51 percent of respondents named as a threat to Arab national security … while Saudi Arabia is often cited as the primary Arab state in support of belligerence against Iran, the data indicate that this view doesn’t seem to extend to its public. In the Saudi Arabian sample, only 8 percent believed that Iran presents a threat — a lower percentage even than that which viewed the U.S. as a source of threat (13 percent). ” Furthermore, “More than half of all respondents (55 percent) believe that Israel’s possession of nuclear weapons justifies other states in the region seeking to acquire such weapons. Interestingly, this percentage is about 60 percent in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Jordan (the so-called “Sunni” alliance).”
@wisemanwi:
Your reading Ahmadinejad’s and others quotes in which Islamic eschatology is cited is almost identical to that of Christian Zionist eschatology. There, Israel is also wiped off the face of the earth with 2/3rds being physically destroyed and the remnant converting to Christianity after the Battle of Armageddon.
Not looking for the old deflect, by why does Israel get upset about one, but welcomes the other despite the fact that both theologies demand Israel’s destruction?
Your mistake is you’re comparing secular leadership to the west to that of messianic madmen in Iran who rule through impunity and terror against the will of the Iranian people. Never compare secular leaders in the west to the religious madmen constituting the Mullahs. And I speak as an Iranian and an atheist, a non-Jew. You simply don’t compare the two.
“And I speak as an Iranian and an atheist, a non-Jew”
Are you also a lesbian who lives in Damascus ?
LOL seafoid!
You mean religious mad men like Netanyahu? If not, who are you talking about?
Progressive Haaretz: basically, it maintains few columnists like Haas, Rachlevsky and Levy that perphaps would not be tolerated in another printed Israeli newspaper. But some writers could equally well publish in Arutz Sheva.
Amos Harel is “apolitical” or “centrist”. I think he was correct on Eisen case: clearly he was not suspended for mere brutality. I would rather get a punch from an out-of-shape officer than a rubber bullet (an approved method) but the first looks much worse. I did not this article, but knowing the style, he was interpreting why IDF did what it did, not if this was a correct thinking.
If one were able to move the political spectrum in Israel to the US, its far left would be to the right of center.
Well, right wing supports socialized medicine and gay rights (particularly to serve in the military).
That’s the problem with one-dimensional characterizations of politics. BTW the Nazis had socialized medicine too and look at how that went!
At least this version of politics is two dimensional
link to politicalcompass.org
If one were to move the political spectrum of the US to Australia its far left would be to the right of centre! ;)
“If one were to move the political spectrum of the US to Australia”
I think that’s what our Government has been trying to do for some years now.
Concerning threats by Iranian leaders: it is not clear that they advocate that Iran should be the agency of “regime in the Holy City passing from the pages of time”. It seems that one agency should be Providence and another, the community of all Muslim.
By the way, Ahmedinejad was accused of trying to raise an army of jinns. And there is a related plan to use Flying Carpets. (One of these two statements is actually true, and one I added for a good measure). Apparently he claimed some knowledge of the wishes of the Hidden Imam who according to some theologians is the same person as Jesus Christ. Armageddon promises to be a very complicated affairs with at least 3 separate messiahs (or not so separate, it is hard to keep track of different versions of Jesus/Isa), but there could be 4 to 6: Christian, Jews and Muslim may have multiple entries.
“What the hell else do you want to prove this regime is a threat?? How about a documentary produced by the regime in which Khamenei, Hassan Nasrallah, and Ahmedinejad are portrayed as key members of the Hadith whom will usher in the return of the “Hidden Imam” in which conquering Jerusalem is a prerequisite and the end-goal is to spread Islam to “all corners of the Earth” in a worldwide chaos in which 2/3rd of humanity will “perish through death, havoc,and famine?”
“The regime” is rather vague and seriously misleading. From what I have read, clerics of Qom viewed the documentary as heretical and misleading, those who were quoted denied any interviews and the director “vanished from the page of time”. Ahmedinejad was accused of supporting that movie and was nearly impeached. In short, the ruling clerics do not tolerate prophesies of Hidden Imam. Especially unauthorized prophesies.
the director “vanished from the page of time”
ok i almost spit up on my keyboard. just finished opening shmuels link and i can’t stop laughing. what’s come over me, everything seems funny. it must be from reading all the crazy excuses from the prozios lately, i’m going batty.
It could be funny, but some people actually vanish in theocratic prisons. I guess there is an equivalent of Inquisitio Haereticae Pravitatis.
guardian.co.uk, Thursday 5 May 2011 14.23 EDT
Several people said to be close to the president and his chief of staff, Esfandiar Rahim Mashaei, have been arrested in recent days and charged with being “magicians” and invoking djinns (spirits).
Ayandeh, an Iranian news website, described one of the arrested men, Abbas Ghaffari, as “a man with special skills in metaphysics and connections with the unknown worlds”.
The Politics of the Hidden Imam
by ALI CHENAR in Tehran,
27 Jul 2011 03:40
Read more: link to pbs.org
A documentary film, The Appearance Is Imminent, based on stories surrounding the Hidden Imam and the supposed signs foretelling his reemergence, was distributed widely earlier this year. The filmmakers imply that he will soon return and that the presidency of Ahmadinejad — described as one of his most faithful followers — is paving the way. Of course, one wonders if the film was actually meant to pave the way for Ahmadinejad to achieve more power despite the opposition to him amid conservative religious circles. [...] Statements issued by seminaries in Qom condemning The Appearance Is Imminent forced Ahmadinejad to criticize the producers. Almost all of the clerics who were quoted in the movie denied talking to the filmmakers. In April, the authorities felt obliged to arrest the film’s director; nothing has been heard of him since.
——-
Clearly, raising an army of jinns would obviate any need for nukes, but luckily for Israel, a vigorous inspection system is in place, far more competent than any international agency could offer. One should point out that Israel has mystical resources of its own. I think that sooner or later golems will slug it out with jinns. [Below, NickJOCW, "Iranians are not magicians", given that some Iranians were arrested for exactly that, this statements should be qualified.]
All the citations compiled by wiseman1 make sense from this perspective. Those are prophesies (or amateurish attempts, as Qom and Tehran are not on the same page). Israeli spiritual leaders have very similar prophesies of their own, and they are AGAINST military attack on Iran. Rational calculations show that on a purely military plane, neither Iranian attack on Israel nor Israeli attack on Iran would fare well, hence far-sighted leaders try to coordinate with the supernatural.
Non Sequitur. No one ever said Israel is better than Iran.
End the jewish military dictatorship now.
“i can’t stop laughing. what’s come over me, everything seems funny”
I’m so sorry, Annie. I had no idea it was contagious. Oh well, maybe we can go to Humornon, where they cure hopeless jokies.
/Especially unauthorized prophesies./
Astute observation.
It would be completely impossible for Iran to wipe Israel from the map; Iranians are not magicians, they don’t wield magic wands. Only Israel can wipe itself out and seems to be making a fairly good job of it; comparing Israel’s status in the global community a couple of years back with how it appears today you would be hard pushed to identify the change as positive. While one can count negative Israeli actions over the period on the fingers of a hundred hands, I am at a loss to think of one that has commanded respect, gratitude or praise.
I’m against all nuclear weapons but can someone explain why Isreal can have nuclear weapons and Iran can’t? Isn’t this whole situation about Isreal maintaining military dominance in the Middle-East. What do you think would happen to Iran if it did attack Isreal ? and more importantly, don’t you think they know what would happen? Isreal’s looking for a ‘war’ and the result is that petrol prices will go up all over the world.
If you are against nuclear weapons then the question is meaningless
either you want proliferation or you don’t regardless of who already has what.
“If you are against nuclear weapons then the question is meaningless
either you want proliferation or you don’t regardless of who already has what.”
What a silly, stupid thing to say. One can be against free access to hand guns, but there is nothing inconsistant in saying that if there is a roving gang of armed homicidal monsters are terrorizing a neighborhood (that’s Israel in this analogy, by the way), the innocent old ladies and shop keepers should be able to protect themselves.
“I’m against all nuclear weapons but can someone explain why Isreal can have nuclear weapons and Iran can’t?”
That’s exactly right. I oppose all weapons, but if Israel isn’t going to get rid of theirs and, in fact, has threatened Iran, then Iran should be able to get whatever it needs to protect itself, even if that means being able to destroy Israel. Fair is fair.
Re: Nuclear Weapons – free Middle East
I wonder WHEN and IF the P5+1 negotiations with Iran will also deal with the mighty-little Elephant in the Room which so far has never been officially talked about: Israel.
How myopic can the assembled “negotiators” be and successfully continue to overlook this Elephant and do as if it was not there??????
Well, if one of the 5 or the 1 is the US, then it’s bosses will tell it to not allow that subject to come up…
I’m against all nuclear weapons too but the fact is that Israel is a nation that is not run by rabbis but instead of secular leadership. Israel is a country in which 15-30% of the population are atheist-Jews and 60% of Israelis consider themselves secular. They are not a nation that will use nuclear weapons as an offensive weapon. If Israel was run by rabbis, I would share your concern as well. But the fact is that Israel is surrounded by nations that want to wipe it out. In contrast with Iran, the apocalyptic madmen constituting the Islamic Republic constitute of fanatics that rape our young sisters before executing them so that they don’t “die as virgins”.
I will state again, I am not Jewish. I am an Iranian/atheist “technically born Muslim”. The vast majority of the Iranian people have no problems with Israel and recognize their rights. Our enemy is the Islamic Republic. We and the Israelis are historical brethren going back 2500-years. It is time to support the Iranian people in getting rid of this terrorist and illegitimate regime of the Islamic Republic. Israel is the only democracy in a sea of despots and fascists and should be recognized as such.
Israel is a nation that is not run by rabbis but instead of secular leadership
perhaps you are unfamiliar with the inroads of the religious parties that make up the governing bodies, including the PM’s cabinet.
link to en.wikipedia.org
this is common knowledge
Do not fall for it, Annie.
It seems that religious fanatics, both in Israel and Iran, would rather rely on Messiah or Hidden Imam than on nukes, Israel Beitenu has some understanding of Eurasian power politics, and this is Likud(b) and Likud(m) (a.k.a. Kadima) that is most bloodthirsty.
piotr, i don’t use words/ideas like bloodthirsty anyway. w1 tries to peddle a theory that because israel is run by secularist they won’t use a nuke. so regardless of whether they are fanatics or secular is irrelevant here because netanyahu has buttressed his administration with these guys and so we must assume the price paid is worth it for their long term goals. and his percentages are way off. pff
In Israel the religious courts have police powers as has been reported in all the Israeli newspapers. The most blatant case lately was a woman who refused to give her husband a divorce. Her bank account was frozen and they are trying to get her jailed. link to haaretz.com
Israel is a backwater theocracy
by Matt Giwer, © 2011 [July]
I know, provocative title. Izziehuggers are chomping at the bit to refute it. Start by reading this article straight from a country that shares western values. To see how modern and western Israel really is it is necessary to read only one paragraph.
“To force her to accept the divorce, the rabbinical court blocked her from leaving the country, restricted her bank account and suspended her driver’s license. But the woman remained firm.”
There is nothing misleading in that quote. In fact in reading what leads up to it including the headline “Jerusalem Rabbinical Court wants woman jailed for refusing to accept divorce” you expect to find a simple statement such as the police laughed them out of the station.
All you izziehuggers who have apologized for the absence of civil marriage in Israel saying it isn’t all that different eat your lying words. Rabbis control marriage, divorce and have police powers to enforce the decisions of their primitive religious courts. What’s next? Crucifixion?
14 August 2011 update
The woman has been fined 200,000 shekels in addition to the above. Shekels are what Israel calls money. It is about $US60,000. That is real money for refusing to obey the diktats of an unelected religious tyranny.
>> … Israel is a nation that is not run by rabbis but instead of secular leadership. … They are not a nation that will use nuclear weapons as an offensive weapon. If Israel was run by rabbis, I would share your concern as well.
The U.S. is a nation that is not run by priests but instead of secular leadership. They are a nation that has used nuclear weapons as an offensive weapon. You might want to start worrying.
>> I will state again, I am not Jewish. I am an Iranian/atheist “technically born Muslim”. The vast majority of the Iranian people have no problems with Israel and recognize their rights. Our enemy is the Islamic Republic. It is time to support the Iranian people in getting rid of this terrorist and illegitimate regime of the Islamic Republic. Israel is the only democracy in a sea of despots and fascists and should be recognized as such.
Someone with the username “wiseman”, who happens to be Iranian, atheist and “technically born Muslim” – but absolutely not Jewish, no sir! – condemns Iran, praises Israel (as the “only democracy in a sea of despots and fascists”, no less!) and conjures up a 2,500-year “bond” between Iran and the pre-pubescent nation of Israel (’cause, y’know, Israelis have been there for 2,500 years). There’s just no way he could be a Zionist propagandist!
Too funny… :-)
wiseman = “wise man”. My name is Sassan.
uh huh.
Here is my page on “ThinkAtheist”: link to thinkatheist.com
I have nothing to hide about who I am and to refer to me not being Iranian simply for not fitting your preconceived notions is ridiculous.
>> My name is Sassan.
And it seems that Mondoweiss is not the only site on which you appear to have credibility issues.
oh my. seems we’ve caught a live one.
>> Here is my page on “ThinkAtheist” …
>> I have nothing to hide about who I am and to refer to me not being Iranian simply for not fitting your preconceived notions is ridiculous.
Fair enough, I will not question your Iranian-ness again. However, given your admiration for the oppressive, expansionist, colonialist and religion-supremacist state of Israel, I will continue to question your sanity. ;-)
“wiseman = “wise man”.
Ah! So you are a “wise man”! Damn, that’s one clever internet handle! And since you call yourself “wise” how could it not be true?
wiseman = “wise man”. My name is Sassan.
Well, which is it to be? How about just wiseass?
wiseman,
These people seem to deny the existence of anything they deem unacceptable, such as a moderate Israeli or an anti-Mullah Iranian. Annie once suggested that I am an anglo immigrant to Israel, and refused to budge when I corrected her to my identity – a native Israel.
These guy aren’t very tolerant.
Izik
huh, may we have some context please. link? the archives are your friend.
also, perhaps you missed my exchange with burston, someone i would consider a ‘moderate’ israeli. so to claim i ‘deny the existence of anything they deem unacceptable’ is patently absurd. most posters here do not deny apartheid or the occupation and we certainly deem those things unacceptable.
izik, there aint’ nuthin there to back it up. you’re just slinging around silly allegations you cannot back up.
link to mondoweiss.net
Annie, you are right. It was Danaa who suggested this, not you. I apologize for the misrepresentation:
link to mondoweiss.net
I dare gamble that what you consider a “moderate Israeli” is a person who shares your exact opinions.
Would you consider me, a Zionist Meretz voter, two-stater, a moderate? In Israel, I am pretty far on the left. What am I to you?
In any event, I do not understand your assault on wiseman. The Iranian regime is indeed oppressive. That does not affect any of your claims against Israel, so why are you so against the idea of harsh criticism against Iran?
Izik, I applaud your moral clarity.
apology accepted. danaa’s a native of israeli so she’s much more qualified to be making the kinds of cultural distinctions she made. it isn’t my area of expertise.
burston and i do not share the exact opinions. in fact i wrote a critical article here about one of his columns.
this is what you are to me:
link to mondoweiss.net
anyone can claim anything about themselves, but i judge people not by their alleged self identification, but by the kinds of arguments they make and their general consistency and integrity. i knew very well i didn’t make that comment because i don’t grab stuff out of nowhere and say anything that serves my argument. go read the hasbara handbook section on point scoring. this is point scoring, based on nothing, just a stupid broad brush ad hominem:
These people seem to deny the existence of anything they deem unacceptable
you can tell me you are ‘pretty far left’ til you’re blue in the face, blather about me ‘assaulting’ your ideological cohort. walks like a duck and talks like a duck. you’re a duck as far as i am concerned. we are operating in an info battlefield where the opponent spends millions in online advocacy for agents who do not reveal themselves as agents. so look to team israel if you’re unsatisfied we don’t buy ridiculous bios that sound fake.
>> Izik, I applaud your moral clarity.
Don’t applaud too hard – he’s a Zio-supremacist. He believes in Israel as a religion-supremacist Jewish state, not a secular, democratic and egalitarian Israeli state – a state of and for all Israelis, equally.
Or have I accepted the truthiness of who you are just a little too hastily?
“Don’t applaud too hard – he’s a Zio-supremacist.”
I do not. Not sure what that means, really.
“He believes in Israel as a religion-supremacist Jewish state”
Being as I am an atheist who firms believes in the separation of religion and state, that is a false statement.
You didn’t link to any specific quote, but whatever they may be, let me save you some time:
I strongly oppose Hamas, and I think Cast-Lead was necessary in order to protect our citizens in the south. I don’t believe in negotiations with Hamas, but I do believe with negotiations with Fatah. I support a two-state solution based on the 67′ borders, with East-Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital and joint control over the holy sites. I oppose the right of return, but support some form of compensation. I believe in resolving this conflict, not prolonging it. I oppose the settlements, and I believe in equal rights for all men. Anything you quote me saying will support the above opinions.
“we are operating in an info battlefield where the opponent spends millions in online advocacy for agents who do not reveal themselves as agents.”
As an Israeli who is somewhat familiar with the details, the above statement is paranoid. I don’t think the Israeli government knows or cares about MW.
“Israel is a nation that is not run by rabbis but instead of secular leadership. Israel is a country in which 15-30% of the population are atheist-Jews and 60% of Israelis consider themselves secular.”
Look, if you want to come right out and say that Israel is not a Jewish state, please, don’t beat around the bush. And if you want to say that if Israel was indeed a Jewish state, it would A-bomb the rest of the world, just say it. We are used to all kinds of anti-Semitic stuff from Zionists around here.
BTW, Wiseman, maybe you can explain to me why all the Zionists are so contemptuous of Jews? Don’t like Rabbis, don’t like settlers, don’t like the ultra-religious. Sure sounds like anti-Semitism to me. Are they just too Jewish for you?
I mean, if Israel is a Jewish State, seems to me the more Jewish the people are in Israel, the better the state would be. But you assure us that the most Jewish people are not in control, and claim they are bloodthirsty warmongers.
You just don’t like Jews, do you?
In fact, it occurs to me that God is only sparing those %15-30 atheists and the 90% secular for the sake of the religious people, the settlers, the Rabbis, the true, authentic, hand crafted, custom made, genuine Jews of Israel! So count your blessings, and make sure you have a generous welfare program so real, authentic Jews can continue to intercede with Almighty God in your secular, atheist behalf.
The Jewish part is more a “cultural” thing than religious. It is not a theocratic state. Albert Einstein was “Jewish too” and so has been a long list of Nobel Laureates and physicists who were in fact atheist Jews.
“Albert Einstein was “Jewish too” and so has been a long list of Nobel Laureates and physicists who were in fact atheist Jews.”
Wow! You knew the great physicist well enough to discuss his most intimate religious feelings with him. Gotta hand it to ya, Wiseguy, the closest I got is that my younger sister was born on the day Einstein died.
“The Jewish part is more a “cultural” thing than religious.” So what is Jewish “cultural”? So if somebody drops their short “a”s and substitutes a short “e” they are Jewish? You make no sense at all.
You should read some time. A great book is Einstein: His Life and Universe by Walter Isaacson. It contains a great number of recently released personal letters of Einstein. Einstein in fact did not believe in Judaism as a religion but did believe in a Jewish state and was in fact offered Israel’s Presidency which he did not accept. In addition, he was Jewish as being Jewish is first and foremost a cultural and historical basis, not a religious.
Learn here: link to en.wikipedia.org
link to einsteinonisrael.com
Based on the narrative of that book, it seems to be extremely one-sided and false. Again, I simply refer one to read “Einstein: His Life and Universe” for a complete picture of Einstein. In fact, he campaigned with Chaim Weizmann for the creation of Israel.
From the aforementioned book, ‘ “Einstein told him that he saw the birth of Israel as one of the few political acts in his lifetime that had a moral quality. But he was concerned that the Jews were having trouble learning to live with the Arabs. “The attitude we adopt toward the Arab minority will provide the real test of our moral standards as a people,” he had told a friend a few weeks earlier. He wanted to broaden his speech, which he was scribbling in German in a very tight and neat handwriting, to urge the creation of a world government to preserve peace.” ‘
And: ‘He took issue with Haber’s way of regarding Jews as being people “of the Jewish faith” and instead, once again, cast the identity as being inextricably a matter of ethnic kinship. “Despite my emphatic internationalist beliefs, I have always felt an obligation to stand up for my persecuted and morally oppressed tribal companions,” he said. “The prospect of establishing a Jewish university fills me with particular joy, having recently seen countless instances of perfidious and uncharitable treatment of splendid young Jews with attempts to deny their chances of education.” ‘
Continued..: ‘As he would note near the end of his life, after declining the presidency of Israel, “My relationship to the Jewish people has become my strongest human tie.” ‘
And finally: ‘The rise of German anti-Semitism after World War I produced a counterreaction in Einstein: it made him identify more strongly with his Jewish heritage and community. At one extreme were German Jews such as Fritz Haber, who did everything they could, including converting to Christianity, to assimilate, and they urged Einstein to do the same. But Einstein took the opposite approach. Just when he was becoming famous, he embraced the Zionist cause. He did not officially join any Zionist organization, nor for that matter did he belong to or worship at any synagogue. But he cast his lot in favor of Jewish settlements in Palestine, a national identity among Jews everywhere, and the rejection of assimilationist desires.’
“You just don’t like Jews, do you?”
This is a ridiculously juvenile spin.
Yeah,an Iranian who supports Israel and it’s vassal the USA,who have repeatedly called for no options off the table,including nukes,against Iran,is concerned with the Iranian peoples welfare?
Oy!
exactly dahoit! these hasbrats really have to clean up their faux bios.
I am against an Israeli strike against Iran as any strike would have to be led by the U.S. and her European allies and any strike must not solely target the nuclear sites but the regime apparatus itself. The aim for any military intervention needs to be regime change and a support of the Iranian people. Iran is the only nation in the region that once liberated will truly become a secular democracy as the Iranian people are on the side of the west and in particular, our culture is pre-Islamic.
Guess what buddy? The Iranian people are overwhelmingly pro-American and pro-west. We are oppressed under a tyrannical regime that holds its grip only through terror, torture, and oppression.
“The Iranian people are overwhelmingly pro-American and pro-west. We are oppressed under a tyrannical regime that holds its grip only through terror, torture, and oppression.”
Hey, it worked for Ahmad Chalabai, why not “wiseman”? Sure, we know, one little push from American troops and here comes the “candy and flowers”.
“We are oppressed under a tyrannical regime that holds its grip only through terror, torture, and oppression.”
And you are posting from your secret safe-house in Tehran? What a brave proponent of liberation for the Iranian people you are, risking your life to bring us the facts!
So were Egyptians. Until they voted.
It is time to support the Iranian people in getting rid of this terrorist and illegitimate regime of the Islamic Republic.
oh notsowise, haven’t you been informed yet, according to hasbara central, the term ‘regime’ means ‘state’ and references to ‘regime’, either ending or changing is tantamount to calling for the destruction of a state?
aren’t you really saying it is time to support the Iranian people in wiping the Islamic Republic off the map?
Wiseman’s got a touch of the Werdine about him – no?
Took the same hasbara disguise classes – no?
yep, to a tee. ;)
“Wiseman’s got a touch of the Werdine about him – no?”
You don’t think “Wiseman” wants to be the Iranian Ahmad Chalabi? It’s a high profit enterprise, if you do it right.
” But the fact is that Israel is surrounded by nations that want to wipe it out. ” Which country has reecnetly siad that they wanted to wipe Israel off? How long this lie will be used to generate war against nations by Israel? How long this lie will be used to milk American tax dollars?
“But the fact is that Israel is surrounded by nations that want to wipe it out.”
Well, then it sure was a stupid, stupid place for all those European and American Jews to build that state. Should have chosen someplace else. (Unless, of course, it is the cause of those feelings, by its actions…)
Israel is like a man divorcing his wife who claims that the 10,000 times she said “I love you” don’t matter; the only thing that matters is that she once said “I wish you were dead”
Then it turns out she actually said something like “I wish you were never born.”
Whatever Ahmadinejad is irrelevant. Its just one of many statements made by one of many Iranian politicians. Ahmadinejad has also said, on more than one occasion, that he accepts the Arab peace plan for recognition of Israel. Israeli’s never talk about that. They instead focus ad nauseaum on one seemingly belligerent statement, the ultimate purpose is to mask Israel’s own unrelenting and ceaseless aggression.
Politicians who’s deceitfulness is so profound that they can not admit their country has nuclear weapons can not be trusted on any matter at all. When an Israeli politician talks, it won’t be long before the BS comes out.
Upsidedownism: And he rightfully wants Palestinians to have a say. Remember they never consented to be occupied or forcefully removed from their country.
And then the husband responds over and over again with that I am going to bomb your house if you do not do what I say.
Israel’s intelligence minister denies that Lieberman said:
“Lieberman: Do to Hamas what the US did to Japan
… We must continue to fight Hamas just like the United States did with the Japanese in World War II,” Lieberman added. “Then, too, the occupation of the country was unnecessary. …”
link to jpost.com
Meridor somewhat admitted Ahmadenjad never said “wipe Israel off the map” But he did move right into saying that Iranian leaders have allegedly said Israel “will not survive, needs to be removed, a constant tumor” One of the first times I have heard an Israeli official or one of the people (Reul Marc Gerecht, Cheney, Rice, Bolton, Micheal Oren, Netanyahu, Joe Scarborough, Micheal Rubin, Lieberman, Ros Lehtinen, Rachel Maddow, Terri Gross etc etc) who have repeated this purposely mistranslated line s over and over again the last 10 years …..challenged.
Did hear Hillary and Flynt Leverett challenge Charlie Rose when he said Iran “wants to wipe Israel off the map” when they were on his program. But have never heard a host of a MSM outlet challenge a guest who repeats this false line challenged. Not Diane Rehm, not Scarborough etc etc. In fact Terri Gross and others have repeated the false line themselves over and over again. Terri seems to have lightened up on that one.
Professor Juan Cole translated what the Iranian President actually said close to six years ago:
link to juancole.com
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:34:18 -0400 From: “Cole, Juan”
The speech in Persian is here:
Sorry that I misremembered the exact phrase Ahmadinejad had used. He made an analogy to Khomeini’s determination and success in getting rid of the Shah’s government, which Khomeini had said “must go” (az bain bayad berad). Then Ahmadinejad defined Zionism not as an Arabi-Israeli national struggle but as a Western plot to divide the world of Islam with Israel as the pivot of this plan.
The phrase he then used as I read it is “The Imam said that this regime occupying Jerusalem (een rezhim-e ishghalgar-e qods) must [vanish from] from the page of time (bayad az safheh-ye ruzgar mahv shavad).”
Ahmadinejad was not making a threat, he was quoting a saying of Khomeini and urging that pro-Palestinian activists in Iran not give up hope– that the occupation of Jerusalem was no more a continued inevitability than had been the hegemony of the Shah’s government.
Whatever this quotation from a decades-old speech of Khomeini may have meant, Ahmadinejad did not say that “Israel must be wiped off the map” with the implication that phrase has of Nazi-style extermination of a people. He said that the occupation regime over Jerusalem must be erased from the page of time.
Forgot to link Race for Iran has an important one up about NYT and Wall Street Journal
IRAN MYTHS PERPETUATED BY THE WALL STREET JOURNAL AND THE NEW YORK TIMES
link to raceforiran.com
thanks kathleen. i visited RfI the other day when you directed me to the comments in the previous post (meant to thank you then) and saw that post right after it was published. really good.
And if you want to really learn about the history of Iran and Israel I suggest watching the following groundbreaking documentary produced by Maziar Bahari (the Newsweek journalist who was imprisoned after the 2009 protests) for the BBC entitled, “From Cyrus to Ahmadinejad”. I went ahead and made the English subtitles myself as it is such a great documentary in which you will learn A LOT..: link to youtu.be
Did the “Iraqi exiles” give seminars or something? You know “How you, to, can make big profits (and settle personal scores) from the coming US invasion of Iran! Learn from the Iraqi exiles as we show you the ins and outs of false Senate testimony and how to apply for payments from the State Department, Armed Forces, and CIA at the same time, while claiming complete disinterestedness.”
wiseman1: I understand that you do not like Muslim because they removed your family from power (Sassan?)
More seriously, how do you justify the story that a movie about imminent appearance of Hidden Imam represent the sentiments of “the regime” when the movie was actually persecuted? How far from official views can you get? I thought that you are one of the people who rely on digests provided by Memri. But as a Persian, you misled us knowingly. You are a MEK-y boy, or a monarchist.
More ad hominems . If I don’t fit into your preconceived notions I must either be a “Zionist”, an “MEK”, or now a “Monarchist”. Quite comical.
iow, you don’t like the MEK? you find it insulting to be associated?
No, I don’t like the MEK and the vast majority of Iranians don’t like the MEK.
The “movie was persecuted” for public face as the documentary was not meant to be released to the public but was leaked by Reza Kahlili, former CIA/Revolutionary Guards spy who obtained it from his contacts. The documentary and the ideology of the Twelver’s very much represent those at the top of the regime. IT was Khamanei who says he “meets with the hidden imam each year” to ask him for “advice” including “advice” on their nuclear program.
And what’s wrong with Memri? They provide a great public service.
alleged former Iranian Revolutionary Guard member. ‘Reza Kahlili’ is a pseudonym, this could be nothing more than a psyops set up. for all you know the neocons and their cohorts made the movie to begin with out of nothing but thin air.
Not alleged, it is fact. The CIA has confirmed Mr. Kahlili’s association with the agency and the Revolutionary Guards.
“Wiseman” Are you still here? Haven’t you got anything better to….. oh, never mind, carry on.
“The CIA has confirmed…”
The presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? The continued health and strength of the soviet bloc? And about a hundred more things?
“And what’s wrong with Memri? They provide a great public service.”
Sure, if you mean translation distortions and omissions from a service which was founded by a former colonel in Israeli military intelligence.
It’s not surprising that there are Iranians who oppose the regime bitterly – how could there not be? – and perhaps some who would welcome Israeli help in overthrowing it, just as there were many French emigres in revolutionary times who fought with foreign armies. Whether it’s the religious character of the regime that is objectionable I’m not sure. I expect many of the opponents would say that they were every bit as God-fearing as Khamenei.
My goodness, 138 comments and counting. A shit-storm of details! Must be an Israeli lawyer in here somewhere? The “they say it will be removed” is nonsense. What the Ayatollah was quoted as saying was(paraphrasing) that the Zionist Enterprise will fall of it’s own weight, just like so many other bad ideas humans have come up with lately. Stalin, Nixon, Clinton and the endless list of characters(feel free to add to the list).
The issue for the West now is, are we going to let them take us with them(1973)? Maybe, DC is certainly occupied.
I’d prefer to cut our loses at the appropriate point.
Hej! Tumta