Israel responds to Palestinian call to restart talks by legalizing three West Bank settlement outposts

Israel/PalestineMiddle EastUS Politics
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The Jewish outpost of Bruchin, near the Palestinian West Bank city of Nablus, which Israel has decided to legalise. Source: AFP

Prime Minister’s Office:

Status of the Communities of Sansana, Rechelim and Bruchin Formalized

23/04/2012
A ministerial team that was authorized by the Government decided today to formalize the status of the communities of Sansana, Rechelim and Bruchin, which were established in the 1990’s on the basis of the decisions of previous governments.

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Netanyahu’s special ministerial outpost committee

That’s the announcement from Netanyahu’s office informing us of the legalization of three illegal outposts in the West Bank. The outposts were retrospectively “legalised” this week by a special ministerial committee  set up by the prime minister. The committee was made up of four ministers.

The outposts, Sansana, Rechelim and Bruchin, were never formally authorized when founded in the 1990s and are still considered illegal under international law.

The European Union has requested Israel reverse the decision. The provocative move has also been criticized by Jordan, France, United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon and the Palestinian Authority.

The U.S. State Department voiced ‘concern’.

AFP:

State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland reiterated Washington’s opposition to settlement activity on the West Bank and said the United States asked Israel, through its embassy in Tel Aviv, for “clarification.”

“We are obviously concerned,” Nuland told reporters.

“We don’t think this is helpful to the process, and we don’t accept the legitimacy of continued settlement activity,” she said.

“We make this case every time we have an incident like this that it is not helpful to the process – it doesn’t get us where we need to go,” the spokeswoman said, adding: “We will continue to raise it as we have.”

The decision was announced just as US envoy David Hale was visiting the region in an effort to revive the moribund peace process.

Hale met in Amman with Jordanian Foreign Minister Nasser Judeh, who condemned the Israeli decision. Hale also held talks with Israeli and Palestinian negotiators, Nuland said.

Nuland rejected a charge that Israel was undercutting the US envoy’s mission, saying: “David Hale has been in the region all week trying to work on the issues involved here and bring the parties back to the table.”

David Hale was there to revive the peace process? The parties are not going back to the table Victoria. Why do you bother saying anything when we know the U.S State Department will do nothing?

Netanyahu’s timing is just spectacular. He set up this ‘special ministerial committee’ just five days after chief Palestinian negotiator, Saeb Erekat, sent a letter to Netanyahu from Abbas reiterating Palestinian demands for restarting talks which of course included an end to settlement building in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Netanyahu’s office said he would respond within two weeks. And he did.

Saudi Gazette: Israeli move on settlers is reply to Abbas’ letter

RAMALLAH — The Palestinian presidency criticized Tuesday an Israeli decision to legalise three outposts as its reply to a letter demanding a settlement freeze to renew peace talks.

“The decision on the settlements is the Israeli answer to President Mahmud Abbas’ letter to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu,” Palestinians’ presidential spokesman Nabil Abu Rudeina told media, adding that it was “expected.”

Abu Rudeina further called on the “Israeli government to immediately cease unilateral actions, especially settlements activity.” “Every single settlement built on Palestinian land is illegal”, Saeb Erekat, chief negotiator told the media.

“As such, this sends a clear message to both the international community and to the Palestinians that Israel is more committed to land theft than peacemaking,” senior official PLO official Hanan Ashrawi said.

Hagit Ofran, director of Peace Now has slammed the decision to legalize the settlements:

“The Israeli government is proving its true policy, that instead of going to peace it is building new settlements,” she told AFP on Tuesday.

This is the first time since 1990 that the government of Israel decides on establishing new settlements, and the government’s manoeuvre, of establishing a committee to establish the settlements, is a trick aimed at hiding the true policy from the public.”

Ofran stressed the decision changes the reality on the ground.

“All the years these outposts weren’t legal, the state said they aren’t for real, and now they suddenly are,” she said.

Bruchin has around 350 settlers and is located near Nablus,  Rechelim has around 240 settlers and is located near Nablus. Sansana has around 240 settlers and is located near Hebron.

50 Responses

  1. Fredblogs
    April 26, 2012, 12:40 pm

    That’s not so much a call to restart talks as it is a call to stop settlements. The Israelis tried that for a set period of 10 months. The Palestinians waited until 2 weeks before the deadline to even sit at the table, then walked when building restarted just as scheduled. In the 9.5 months they wasted, they might have been able to negotiate peace (or perhaps not, we’ll never know). Instead, like always, they didn’t miss the opportunity to miss an opportunity. They still have the opportunity to talk, just with building continuing, just as peace talks often go on in active wars while fighting continues. There is no inherent reason they can’t talk now. Are they any better off today for not talking since the settlement building restarted?

    • Annie Robbins
      April 26, 2012, 4:02 pm

      fred, what do you think of this committee netanyau set up on sunday reversing decades of policy and declaring these illegal outposts legal? helpful much?

      • Fredblogs
        April 26, 2012, 4:11 pm

        Not helpful, but far less harmful than the Palestinians’ refusal to negotiate without another settlement freeze. The Israelis have a “fool me once” attitude toward that. They tried a settlement freeze and it got them nowhere, so why should they think another one would fare any better.

        If I were them I’d say, fine a freeze that starts the day talks start and end if the talks are making no progress. None of this “a freeze for months followed by maybe talks just in time to try to stop the freeze from ending”.

      • Woody Tanaka
        April 26, 2012, 4:37 pm

        “They tried a settlement freeze”

        Liar. There hasn’t been a settlement freeze since the israelis started this part of the crime in 1967.

      • Shingo
        April 26, 2012, 4:51 pm

        Not helpful, but far less harmful than the Palestinians’ refusal to negotiate without another settlement freeze

        Wrong Dumbass. Israel signed and ratified the Road Map, in which they agreed to stop building settlements as a first step before final status negotiations.

        If Israel won’t even respect their own treaties, then what’s the use talking to them in the hope of comming to new agreements that they will ignore anyway?

      • Annie Robbins
        April 26, 2012, 5:20 pm

        uh huh fred, legalizing more outposts and expanding israel tightening the noose around any possibility of 2 states is less harmful than the palestinians not negotiating with their ethnic cleansers.

        i suppose it isn’t lost on you israel doesn’t need any cooperation from palestinians to stop expanding and make a palestinian state. so in essence they are not hindered from resolving this. so peddling the notion harm is being done to israel by palestinians not negotiating with their oppressors is a slimy rhetorical argument. i’m going to let you take the last word as i find dialoguing with you completely redundant and futile.

      • Fredblogs
        April 26, 2012, 9:59 pm

        Why do you Israel haters all seem to have this idea that land is permanently defiled by the temporary presence of Jews on it? If the Palestinians negotiated a deal that included territory that is now settlements, then the settlements would be evacuated. Just like when Israel pulled out of Gaza. So not only would they have land, they’d have land with pre-built buildings on them for them to use.

        As to Israel unilaterally creating a Palestinian state, Israel tried an experiment with unilaterally pulling out of an area and giving it to the Palestinians. The result was over 10,000 missiles fired from Gaza. There is no point for Israel in making a hostile state on its borders without even a piece of paper agreeing to stop attacking Israel.

        Also, it will take a lot of political will to evacuate the settlements. That amount of will can be brought into being by a negotiated peace deal, but not out of the vague hope that the Palestinians might stop attacking if only Israel again withdraws from an area.

        All the Palestinians have to do to win is agree to leave Israel alone in exchange for a Palestinian state. They refuse to make that deal since it gives up the right of return they think they will get by holding out.

        I’m not peddling the notion that harm is being done to Israel by the Palestinians refusal to negotiate. It harms Israel very little. The people harmed by the Palestinians’ refusal to negotiate are the Palestinians.

      • ritzl
        April 26, 2012, 10:16 pm

        @Annie Well said.

      • Shingo
        April 27, 2012, 3:37 am

        Why do you Israel haters all seem to have this idea that land is permanently defiled by the temporary presence of Jews on it?

        Why would Israel spend billions on building settlements and infrastructure if they intended to hand it over to the Palestinians? Do they have so much money that they can throw it around?

        Why would they be spending money on pre-built buildings for Palestinians when there is a housing shortage in Israel?

        Why would Israel have haggled for decades over land swaps if they intended to withdraw and hand it to the Palestinians?

        Israel didn’t pull out of Gaza as part of any peace deal with the Palestinians. The move was decided by Israeli hard liners who determined that the resources being spent to defend and maintain the illegal Gaza settlements would be better spent defending and enabling the settler project in the West Bank.

        Israel tried an experiment with unilaterally pulling out of an area and giving it to the Palestinians. The result was over 10,000 missiles fired from Gaza.

        That was AFTER Israel fired 8,000 shells into Gaza in the space of 12 months, beginning the month they completed the withdrawal.

        Now why would Israel have done that (as well as turning Gaza into a prison), if the object of the exercise was to create a mini Palestinian state?

        After all, it was you who argued that BDS is tantamount to the destruction of Israel, so how could a blockade have yielded anything but a ruined society?

        That amount of will can be brought into being by a negotiated peace deal …

        Based on recent history, you’d have to be delusional to believe that. Rabin was assassinated by an Israeli who’s views are shared by the current Israeli government. He was considered an extremist at the time, but he and Netenyahu were both fiercely opposed to the Oslo Accords. In fact, Bibbi boasted of how the sabotaged them.

        All the Palestinians have to do to win is agree to leave Israel alone in exchange for a Palestinian state.

        That’s truly mind numbing, even by the standards of your Ziocaine addled brain. It would be like arguing that women can avoid being raped so long as they stop bothering the rapist.

        How are they supposed to leave the Israelis alone when the Israelis are occupying them and stealing their land?

      • Fredblogs
        April 27, 2012, 2:25 pm

        Give me a cite on the 8000 shells and I’ll look into it. I suspect they were all in response to rocket, mortar, and other attacks from Gaza.

        “Several hours after the Israel withdraws the last of its troops from the Gaza Strip two Qassam rockets are fired by Palestinian militants from the Gaza Strip. The first lands near the Israeli town of Sderot, while the second lands near Kibbutz Yad Mordechai.”
        link to en.wikipedia.org

      • Fredblogs
        April 27, 2012, 2:30 pm

        Oh, and they aren’t being raped. In fact one of the accusations against the IDF is that they are racists for not raping Palestinian women.

        link to militaryphotos.net

        What is going on is a war. The Palestinians’ most commonly used weapons are terrorist bombs and propaganda. The Israelis’ most commonly used weapons are construction equipment and home building materials.

        They are supposed to _agree_ to leave the Israelis alone. That is the core principle around which any peace deal acceptable to Israel will be made. It is a principle rejected by the Palestinians, who demand the right to take over Israel as a non-negotiable point.

      • Blake
        April 27, 2012, 2:33 pm

        Fredblogs: You seem to have a lot to say in your capacity for zionist propagandist on this site. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to your moral, ethical and legal right to ancestral Palestine at their expense. I have been asking this question for years and never received a reply. There is no rational one but would love to hear your response.

      • Annie Robbins
        April 27, 2012, 2:50 pm

        fred, you’ve dragged in a link fro 06 about one research doctoral candidate at hebrew university, Tal Nitzan, and her Hebrew University teachers’ committee prize. sorry, one little research paper does not an argument make.

        They are supposed to _agree_ to leave the Israelis alone.

        we are not idiots fred, obviously if the israelis priority was to be left alone they would stop expanding their state. the goal “core principle” is all the land, everyone knows that now. cat out of bag. no palestinian is going to go along with supporting their own land being stolen.

      • Shingo
        April 27, 2012, 7:10 pm

        The reference to rape was a metaphor to illustrate the absurdity of the argument that the Palestinians should leave their oppressors and tormentors alone.

        Having said that, rape was frequently used,  along with terrorist bombs, massacres and mass expulsion, to create Israel in the first place.

        To describe the conflict as a war makes as much sense as describing the mugging of an old lady as a gangland turf battle.  It’s so obscenely one sided.

        They are supposed to _agree_ to leave the Israelis alone. That is the core principle around which any peace deal acceptable to Israel will be made.

        How are they supposed to leave the Israelis alone when the Israelis refuse to leave them alone? Like I explained, that’s like a rapist demanding that the woman he is abusing stop being a nuisance. As Talknic pointed out, it explains the extent of your sadism.

        In fact, your posts here have become so deranged and obscene, I doubt you even believe the garbage you are posting here. 

        It is a principle rejected by the Palestinians, who demand the right to take over Israel as a non-negotiable point

        You’re obviously so frustrated with having to defend the indefensible, that you’ve decided it’s easier to post the most obscene and ahistorical crap you can think up, rather than formulate a legitimate argument.

        Everything you’ve accused accused the Palestinians of doing in this post are precisely what Israel has been guilty of. You know it. Everyone knows it.  Why you’re wasting so much time on this forum is anyone’s guess.

    • seafoid
      April 26, 2012, 4:13 pm

      Fred, habibi

      the Jews of Zionism have been lying their way, dunum by dunum, since 1882. They are hardly going to keep to their verbal assurances now, are they ?
      YESHA is a 24/7/365 operation. Israelis never had the balls to stand up to it and they will reap the consequences.

      • Fredblogs
        April 26, 2012, 10:00 pm

        the Jews of Zionism have been buying their way, dunum by dunum, since 1882.

        Fixed it for you.

      • seafoid
        April 27, 2012, 4:36 am

        How much of Israeli land is state owned, habibi?
        I believe it’s in excess of 90%.
        Who paid for it ? Nobody ever paid for it.

        You just walk into them .

      • Fredblogs
        April 27, 2012, 2:00 pm

        Most of the land that was state owned by the British, and before that state owned by the Ottoman empire. They bought a lot of the privately owned land. The state owned land they inherited from the previous government.

      • Blake
        April 27, 2012, 2:34 pm

        Fredblogs: You cannot buy a country and the land the Jews owned collectively in 1948 when you self declared your terrorist entity in ancestral Palestine was under 6%.

      • tree
        April 29, 2012, 3:21 pm

        Most of the land that was state owned by the British, and before that state owned by the Ottoman empire.

        Oh no, its time yet again to dust out an old post or two of mine.

        Fred, you are totally wrong in that statement and the two following it. The majority of land that Israel claimed in 1948 was privately held by Palestinians, with only around 7% per cent owned by Jews. And, according to the British Mandate Government in Palestine, only around 5% of it was previous government land held by the British.

        To reiterate my comment from February of this year:

        According to the official British Survey of Mandate Palestine, issued in 1945, private ownership of land by non-Jewish Palestinians encompassed 24 million dunams (approximately 90% of Mandate Palestine), while Jewish land ownership was only 1.5 million dunams ( approximately 5%).

        Even the Jewish National Fund admitted this in 1949:

        The Jewish National Fund made a study of Jewish villages in Israel in 1949 and stated:(9)

        Of the entire area of the State of Israel only about 300,000- 400,000 dunams – apart from the desolate rocky area of the southern Negev, at present quite unfit for cultivation – are State Domain which the Israel Government took over from the Mandatory regime. The J.N.F. and private Jewish owners possess under two million dunams. Almost all the rest belongs at law to Arab owners, many of whom have left the country. The fate of these Arabs will be settled when the terms of the peace treaties between Israel and her Arab neighbours are finally drawn up. The J.N.F., however, cannot wait until then to obtain the land it requires for its pressing needs. It is, therefore, acquiring part of the land abandoned by the Arab owners, through the Government of Israel, the sovereign authority in Israel.

        link to palestine-encyclopedia.com

        So the British said the majority of land in Mandate Palestine was privately owned by Palestinian Arabs, and so did the JNF at the time. I think your assertion is a new form of Nakba denial going around, attempting to rewrite history and claim that most of the land confiscated was not privately owned, as if that would excuse the ethnic cleansing.

        All Palestinian land owned by the “external refugees” was confiscated, and over 65% of the “internal refugees” land was likewise confiscated by the mid 1950’s, according to Quigley .

        This land and the capital assets of Palestinians seized by Israel in the 1950’s added a significant amount to the Israeli GDP in those early years and beyond.

        As for the kibbutzes, the myth is not reality. They were, for the most part heavily subsidized by the government and benefited greatly from seized fertile Palestinian land, but they were never a large contributor to Israel’s economic success, and were more valuable as a source of myth and pride than income.

        From “The Case for Palestine: An International Law Perspective”, by John Quigley:

        Through market and price controls, the government prevented the modest Arab agriculture that survived the land confiscations from competing with Jewish agriculture. Government purchasing agencies paid more to Jewish farmers than to Arab farmers for similar products.

        A tobacco-purchasing agency (Alei Tabak) was established, owned jointly by the Jewish Agency, the Jewish National Fund, and the government. It was given a monopoly in tobacco purchasing and marketing and bought tobacco from Jewish growers at a price higher than that at which Arab farmers could sell- a lower price set by the government. The agency and Histadrut provided financial assistance to kibbutzim or moshavim, but not to Arab farmers. Arab farmers were, and still are, excluded from membership in kibbutzim and moshavim.

        …..

        The provisional government used the Arabs’ land, dwellings, and possessions for its Jewish population, and primarily for recent immigrants. Ben Gurion ordered that abandoned Arab housing be allocated to Jews. By April 1949, he reported to the Knesset, the government had settled 150,000 Jews in Arab housing.

        ….

        The government also took housing from Arabs who remained inside the armistice lines. In Haifa in July 1948 the IDF forced out Arab residents of the Carmel ridge area to make room for Jews. It forced Arabs from their homes in Acre into what became an Arab ghetto. Many “internal refugees” tried to return to their homes. Their land, like that of the Arab “external refugees”, was considered “absentee” property and was controlled by the custodian of absentee property, who rented it to Jews-the rent money going to the government.

        …..

        The value of the land taken from the Palestine Arabs was estimated at 100 million Palestinian pounds. It included stone quarries, 10,000 acres of vineyards, 25, 000 acres of citrus groves, 10.000 business establishments, 95 percent of what became Israel’s olive groves, and 50,000 apartments.

        …..

        The government took over fully equipped plants. In Ramleh, it distributed 600 shops to Jewish immigrants. In Lydda it seized 1800 truckloads of property, including a button factory, a carbonated drinks plant, a sausage factory, 7000 retail shops, 500 workshops, and 1000 warehouses. It confiscated cabinetmaking shops, locksmith works, turneries, ironworks, and tinworks, which it then leased and sold to Jews.

        My original comments are here:

        link to mondoweiss.net

        link to mondoweiss.net

      • Blake
        April 29, 2012, 3:54 pm

        Thanks tree. With regards to the Negev:

        The British Mandate records affirm that 12,600,000 Dunums of Negev land belonged to the Bedouins. (Mandate records 1937. See Penny Maddrell, The Beduin of the Negev, Minority Rights Group, Report no.81 (1990) p.5)

        According to this U.N. document, paragraph 15: link to unispal.un.org the link shows that although only around 2 million dunums of the Negev was considered fit for cultivation, the other unfit for cultivation 10 million dunums was owned by arabs.

      • tree
        April 29, 2012, 4:38 pm

        And thank you, Blake for adding that information on the Negev. It matches my perception, but I didn’t have the sources you provided.

    • talknic
      April 26, 2012, 11:06 pm

      Fred… Israel is LEGALLY OBLIGED to stop the settlements. Talks or no talks.

      Israel is a UN Member State and all UN Member States are obliged to the UN Charter in its entirety, including Chapt XI.

      Occupation is a position of TRUST. There is an OBLIGATION and a DUTY to PROTECT the occupied, their property and their territory.

      • Fredblogs
        April 27, 2012, 2:03 pm

        Tell it to Turkey. When they give back Northern Cyprus, I’ll listen to arguments about the U.N. charter banning the taking of territory.

      • Blake
        April 27, 2012, 2:52 pm

        @ Fredblogs: Lol. So only then will you stop stealing more of what was never yours to begin with. Irrational criminal mentality. “Oh they are doing it so why cannot we” and only when they stop genocide in Sudan or Turkey hands back Northern Cyprus so too will we stop. By the by, who breaks a whole amount of international laws so you can? And which state began with an illegal immigrant terrorist (cult) and ethnic cleansing land grab of the natives so you could?

      • Shingo
        April 27, 2012, 7:19 pm

        o only then will you stop stealing more of what was never yours to begin with. Irrational criminal mentality.

        That’s like Charles Lanson arguing in court that he should be pardoned because the Son of Sam murders are still unsolved.

    • talknic
      April 27, 2012, 2:30 am

      “Instead, like always, they didn’t miss the opportunity to miss an opportunity”

      The insanity of arrogance encapsulated in a sentence.

      The Palestinians have NEVER HAD an opportunity. For over 2,000 years or so, all or part of Palestine has been under the occupation of some entity or another. In fact, there has only been one minute in 2,000 odd yrs where Palestine was not under the control of another entity.

      A non-self Governing territory cannot declare independence for the simple reason that they’re not independent. It’s the very reason Israel was not declared until the British ended the Mandate, under which the British were the Occupying Power .

      It’s the reason this message was conveyed “… the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law. The Act of Independence will become effective at one minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time”

      Palestine has been free of the control of any entity for only one minute in 2,000 years or more

      At the moment Israel was declared, with Jewish troops already controlling territory slated for the Arab State, the civil war that existed prior to declaration, became a war waged by the State of Israel on what remained of the non-self governing territory of Palestine.

      The Palestinians never had an opportunity to accept or reject the Partition Plan of 1947. The two parties invited to participate in UNGA res 181 were the Jewish Federation/Agency and the Arab States. NOT the Palestinians. They had no say.

      Demanding a Jewish state has resulted in missed opportunities for Jews to go live anywhere in Palestine, buy land settle and live life in relative peace.

      ” They still have the opportunity to talk, just with building continuing”

      You’re the kind of guy who’s gonna negotiate with the thief who only wants to talk about how much of your car he can keep, as he’s stealing it? Why TF should they bother talking to a state, which according to International Law and the UN Charter is stealing Palestinian territory?

      “just as peace talks often go on in active wars while fighting continues”

      Indeed. However, you’re really stepping in it

      Israel was declared, recognized and accepted into the UN while it was waging war on the non-self governing territory of Palestine that remained after Israel was declared. It was not at peace it had not signed any peace agreements or armistice agreements nor had it recognized ANY other state and it had terrorists playing a major part, some of whom became Israeli’s first leaders, not elected by the people who Israel was declared on behalf of, but the Provisional Government put in place by the Jewish People’s Council, who were also never elected by the people they claimed to represent.

      It would appear there is one rule for the Jewish people’s State but not for the Palestinian people’s State.

      “There is no inherent reason they can’t talk now”

      There is however an inherent reason Israel should stop its ILLEGAL activities, even if the Palestinians are reluctant to discuss how much MORE of THEIR territory they’re willing to concede in order to have peace

      “Are they any better off today for not talking since the settlement building restarted?”

      They can at least hold their heads high, whereas Israel has merely continued to act illegally, gaining more of a sh*te reputation as a belligerent, ignorant and greedy little jerk, protected only by the precious US veto vote in the UNSC.

      • Shingo
        April 27, 2012, 3:41 am

        EThe insanity of arrogance encapsulated in a sentence.

        FB gave up enganging in hinest debate long ago when he realized he was out fo his depth. All he is here to do is make the most assinine and rediculous arguments he can think of to try and bring down the discourse.

        Phil, Adam? This guy needs to go.

      • Fredblogs
        April 27, 2012, 2:10 pm

        @ talknic
        And 64 years from now they can hold their heads high in whatever tiny enclaves they will be pushed into in the West Bank after they continue to refuse to accept that the State of Israel belongs to the Jews.

        As for why they should talk to Israel, they should talk because the alternative is that Israel will keep taking the land until the Palestinians are as densely packed as in Gaza and keep it at least until they do talk. Also, because their negotiating position gets worse every day until they do talk.

      • Mooser
        April 27, 2012, 9:37 pm

        “As for why they should talk to Israel, they should talk because the alternative is that Israel will keep taking the land until the Palestinians are as densely packed as in Gaza and keep it at least until they do talk. Also, because their negotiating position gets worse every day until they do talk”

        Well, they’re going to have to do it without your help, Fredblogs, cause all the while Israel is, with you cheering them on, strangling the Palerstinians, you’ll be hiding your butt in America, enjoying the protection of the Gentiles.

        Charming, just charming.

      • ritzl
        April 29, 2012, 2:23 pm

        Your imaginary world has got you so twisted up hasbaratically that you don’t see it, do you?

        As the Israelis take more land, the Palestinian case becomes stronger, not weaker.

        As the two-state option shrivels right before our eyes (the roots are already dead), one-state becomes the only option. As the only option (outside of ethnic cleansing/genocide), it is the position everyone will then adopt and move toward as a protest motivator and, in the case of most governments, political outcome (whether out of weariness or preference, it doesn’t matter).

        The two-state option was always a hypothetical based upon some [always in the] future negotiated result. The one-state condition is an existing fact. The Palestinians just have to do nothing and there it is. Political inertia is a powerful force. Perhaps the second MOST powerful, next to fear.

        Israel has “Eretz”-ed itself right into a very tight corner (from your/its perspective).

        Palestinians could, and maybe should, release all the transcripts and minutes of all the negotiations for the past 20 years (good, bad, and ugly), and disband the PA. That would further force Israel deeper into its self-created Apartheid/Hafrada corner by putting the onus for supporting the occupied population on Israel.

        In the unsolicited advice department: Beyond your obvious rhetorical non-seriousness, you’re your own worst enemy. You facilitate the outcome you most despise.

  2. seafoid
    April 26, 2012, 4:17 pm

    “David Hale has been in the region all week trying to work on the issues involved here and bring the parties back to the table.”

    Totally pointless.
    “The world’s most intractable conflict”. Until Israel gets it in the financial nuts.
    Or the goys of the US turn on Israel. Take your pick.

    • Annie Robbins
      April 26, 2012, 5:00 pm

      yeah, and nuland is worthless. worthless! this term ‘concerned’ seems to be the extent of their willingness to convey displeasure.

      it’s becoming farcical. and they’ve got another court date set up for tuesday over an outpost the supreme court already ruled on. supposed to be demolished by may 1st. somebody needs to write a play about this stuff because it’s theatre at this point. farcical theatre.

      • seafoid
        April 26, 2012, 5:12 pm

        Nuland is a sociopath. Same as her boss.

        It’s slapstick comedy really.Who buys the shtick about 2 states and negotiations when the US killed the idea at the UN?

      • seafoid
        April 27, 2012, 4:43 am

        Nuland’s finest moment

        link to state.gov

    • Fredblogs
      April 26, 2012, 10:01 pm

      “Whether or not Israel gets it in the financial nuts.”

      Fixed that for you too.

      • seafoid
        April 27, 2012, 4:31 am

        Fred

        Israel is doomed – Long term every thing reverts to the mean and Judaism is so far away from mean jewish morality now it’s just not possible to sustain it

        Look at the paranoia around Zochrot.
        Pages with names .

      • Inanna
        April 27, 2012, 7:55 am

        Israel is like a kid, closing its eyes, placing it’s hands over its ears and singing ‘lalalala’ because they don’t want to hear. Except unlike children, they have an army, a navy, an airforce, an espionage apparatus, a parliament making racist laws, a propaganda arm, etc.

        Too bad we can’t send them to the corner for a time out.

      • seafoid
        April 27, 2012, 8:33 am

        Kids have to grow up and make their way in the world and learn to act in the interests of others so as to build themselves a future. So does Israel.

      • Fredblogs
        April 27, 2012, 7:11 pm

        You know, sometimes I can’t figure out the censors here. Perfectly innocent post in response to that “israel is doomed” post and it got censored.

      • Shingo
        April 27, 2012, 9:12 pm

        You know, sometimes I can’t figure out the censors here.

        That makes two of us. You should have been banned long ago on the grounds of Nakba denial.

      • Mooser
        April 27, 2012, 9:30 pm

        “You know, sometimes I can’t figure out the censors here. Perfectly innocent post in response to that “israel is doomed” post and it got censored.”

        You don’t know what the word “censor” means, do you? There are moderators here, and they are tasked with determining which comments are suitable for the site. The owners of the site have the right to either publish or not publish any comment they desire.
        There are many, many free blogging services. You are free to start a “Mondoweiss Watch” blog, and expose any faults you think Mondoweiss has.
        But I guess you are a Israeli traditionalist and prefer a squatting and colonising action. Besides, starting your own website is hard work.

  3. HarryLaw
    April 26, 2012, 5:57 pm

    All this wringing of hands and mindless platitudes like “unhelpfull” and “concerned” are signals to the Israelis that the west is not really bothered what they do, in fact in many ways these weasel words encourage them. Maybe Herr Lieberman was right to tell the EU to put their own house in order first before telling Israel what to do, Herr Lieberman has their measure, only when the EU acts will they be taken seriously, until then, spare us the cant.

    • seafoid
      April 27, 2012, 4:23 am

      There is no point in bringing Palestinian and Israelis to the table. The peace process is dead. Here’s what has happened since the Palestinians went to the UN last September to apply for UN membership.

      UNESCO recognised Palestine in a free vote.

      The US promised to veto the UN application and lobbied the other members of the Security Council to withhold support.

      The US defunded UNESCO.

      Security Council members Portugal and Bosnia were both threatened with unpleasant financial and diplomatic consequences if they voted for Palestine.

      The Security Council didn’t even bother voting

      The Secretary General of the UN asked Palestinian Authority president Abbas to abandon any further action on statehood following the treatment of UNESCO.

      US Senator Ben Cardin held a meeting last month and told a gathering of Israeli lobbyists how he and Hillary Clinton muscled foreign ambassadors to block ‘anti-American’ Palestinian statehood .

      Also last month Israel presented a report at a donor meeting on Palestinian aid in Brussels claiming that the Palestinian Authority is not sufficiently stable to meet the standards of a well-functioning state.

      So that’s it. The notion of the Palestinian State is “anti American”, the Americans won’t allow it and in any case Israel has strangled it. Onwards to apartheid.

      • Mooser
        April 27, 2012, 9:32 pm

        I’m sure the Israeli lobby will have all the sucess of the China Lobby. BTW, there are many interesting parallels between the two.

      • Bandolero
        April 27, 2012, 10:19 pm

        Moser, have a look, the leading representant of the Chinese lobby was just in Auschwitz. Xinhua reports:

        Chinese premier visits Auschwitz concentration camp memorial in south Poland

        Only by always bearing history in mind can people build a bright future, he said, adding the catastrophe at the concentration camp was one of all humanity.

        The tragedy also warned people against war, terror, genocide and all crimes, and encouraged them to fight for freedom, dignity, safety and well-being, Wen said.

        The nations, which waged war on others, need to reflect on their history, he stressed.

        Although the disaster was over, its lessons should be learnt by mankind forever, he added.

        I couldn’t agree more with that. Absolutely amazing, this China lobby.

        Strangely, the western MSM left out these interesting words spoken by Wen in Auschwitz. I wish we had a stronger China lobby.

  4. chris o
    April 28, 2012, 12:19 am

    The NY Times did a story on this on Tuesday. It was the first piece I saw by Jodi Rudoren and I thought it was, generally speaking, rather excellent. You can criticize things here and there but it was pretty information packed.

    link to nytimes.com

    • Annie Robbins
      April 28, 2012, 1:47 am

      i googled this till kingdom come and never saw this! thank you, have not read the whole thing but this is a catch:

      Benjamin Netanyahu argued that it was simply a matter of resolving technical problems such as improper permits and mistakenly building on the wrong hill.

      • chris o
        April 29, 2012, 12:23 pm

        Thanks and I am glad you saw this. I was pretty impressed with the column and was like, “What is MondoWeiss saying about it?” and was surprised there was nothing here. I thought Rudoren managed to present both sides without the kind of false equivalency we often see with this type of “objective” reporting. You really see it in the 1st two sentences:

        “The Israeli government on Tuesday retroactively legalized three Jewish settlement outposts in the West Bank, and moved to delay the scheduled evacuation of a fourth, in a provocative move that some critics said marked the first establishment of new settlements in two decades.

        “But while antisettlement advocates saw it as a significant shift in policy that could undermine the prospects for a two-state solution — and the United States and other foreign governments immediately raised concerns about the move — a spokesman for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu argued that it was simply a matter of resolving technical problems such as improper permits and mistakenly building on the wrong hill.”

      • Annie Robbins
        April 29, 2012, 1:05 pm

        i was completely duped chris. a little back story…on the day this broke here is what i wrote about.

        link to mondoweiss.net

        i found it very strange this story was so heavily promoted. in fact, the story was more about the promotion of the story than the story. that came up in the comment section here:

        link to mondoweiss.net

        i observe the news. when i read an article i will google the content and see who else is reporting it, out of curiosity. i watch how stories travel, what gets picked up, how fast it gets picked up, what gets ignored etc etc.

        why would a story like this go viral? it’s not like there’s anything too special about it? so why is it being reported on TV programs from Lexington to Chatanooga? and where’s Steubenville? this article has saturated the US msm. literally saturated. i have watched many many more important stories fall completely flat.

        don’t you think that is a tad odd for an ex palestinian authority PM 99.9% of americans have never heard of?

        i just thought it was strange.

        anyway, now i think my initial hunch was off, now i think it was to drown out the real story of what was happening that day (the 24th), which was this retro legalization action.

        but oddly enough i did vigorously google this story and the NYT article did not show up. i googled the name of the outposts and googled it several ways. there was a coupla paragraphs in CNN, the npr story..but no wapo or nyt came up in the search. i should have gone directly to the papers and scoured them.

        but i learned a lesson, the next time a relative non story gets plastered all over the msm, remember it might mean they are burying the real story. in my mind, the real story is always…the land grab. in fact phil even mentions that about me today in this post: link to mondoweiss.net

        i’ve written a a few posts about sullivan going after the settlement news too. that is what the msm here really avoids addressing..the settlements.

        also, not sure if you saw my other post on the same day (4/26) as this current on we are on, about ulpana

        link to mondoweiss.net

        thanks again..

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