Herbs grown by Ada Fresh in the Ro'i settlement, exported to the European market with a "made in Israel" label. (Photo: Kav LaOved)
Following a decision earlier this month by South Africa to identify Israeli goods made over the Green Line as settlement products, yesterday Denmark announced that produce from Israeli settlements will no longer carry a "made in Israel" sticker. Although the decision, similar to the United Kingdom's system, is non-binding, it sparked criticism from the country's extremist anti-immigration political party, Dansk Folkeparti, or the Danish People’s Party (DPP).
Members of the xenophobic populist group denounced the optional labels, stating settlements could eventually become part of a future, greater state of Israel, thus muting their current illegal status. "Villy Søvndal has no idea where the borders will be drawn for a new Palestinian state," said the DPP’s Søren Espersen in reference to a Danish politician who supports the label initiative. Continuing, "Until the negotiations have been finalized, there is nothing illegal about the trade [of settlement products]." In addition to rejecting Israel's 1967 borders, the DPP also fiercely opposes the establishment of a Palestinian state--or any additional Arab state in the region.
But Erik Andersen of Denmark's food agency says "the rules are very clear. You cannot write that produce comes from Israel if it comes from an Israeli settlement from the occupied regions of the West Bank. That would be misleading and wrong markings."
Over the past decade the DPP's number of political seats has doubled in, making the group the largest extremist party in Denmark. Their popular support is built off of a platform of anti-immigrant, Islamophobic, nationalism, and what the Guardian's Anne Karpf calls philozionism, a growing European trend of simultaneous anti-Semitism and pro-Zionism. Last March, in the Guardian Karpt wrote about a philozionist rally organized by the English Defense league and held in Denmark, attended by the "who's who," hopefuls of a "papers, please" society.
"Islam threatens not only Israel, Islam threatens the whole world. If Jerusalem falls today, Athens and Rome, Amsterdam and Paris will fall tomorrow," said Holland's Geert Wilders, who is known for his comparison of the Qu'ran to Mein Kampf.
Karpt goes on to detail remarks by the nationalist public official attendees:
Meanwhile, Filip Dewinter, the leader of Belgium's Vlaams Belang party, which grew out of the Vlaams Blok nationalist party, many of whose members collaborated with the Nazis during World War II, has proposed a quota on the number of Belgian-born Muslims allowed in public swimming pools. Dewinter calls Judaism 'a pillar of European society,' yet associates with antiSemites while claiming that 'multiculture ... like Aids weakens the resistance of the European body' and 'Islamophobia is a duty.'
But the most rabidly Islamophobic European philozionist is Heinz-Christian Strache, head of the Austrian Freedom party, who has compared foreigners with harmful insects and consorts with neo-Nazis. And yet, where do we find Strache in December 2010? In Jerusalem, alongside Dewinter, supporting Israel’s right to defend itself.
Similar to the other parties at the conference, the DPP hopes to restrict all Muslim immigration to Denmark. "We must work towards bringing down the immigration from Muslim countries to zero. There can naturally be some exceptions, but there's a need for political ambition to bring Muslim immigration close to zero," announced the party at the beginning of this year.
I’d like to point out here that Holland is not a country, anymore than England is.
Also that bullies always kick the ones who are down and brownnose the ones who are above them. So do extreme rightists. Jews have long ago ceased to be easy prey.
Tzombo: Holland is not a country
As English is not a language.
eGuard, it’s just a nitpick but Holland is indeed only the coast part of the Netherlands. And England is only part of the state called the United Kingdom.
England is a country, it is one of the countries which together form the state known as the UK.
*this was meant to be in reply to Tzombo
Another nitpick would be
In the beginning, that’s in 1978, Vlaams Blok indeed was the natural home for flemish nationalists who had collaborated with the Nazis. I don’t know what the fraction was at the beginning, but by 2004, when the party was renamed, there sure were very few of them left.
In the English language, “Holland” is “(the) Netherlands”. Allison is right.
>> I’d like to point out here that Holland is not a country, anymore than England is.
And I’d like to point out here that, according to Wiki (and according to everyone I know):
>> The term Holland is also frequently used as a pars pro toto to refer to the whole of the Netherlands.
IOW, in common usage, Holland = Netherlands. :)
Nothing illegal about made in settlement goods? Well, sort of illegal in the way that goods made by slave labor might seem illegal to folks who considered slave labor itself to be illegal). The settlements themselves are illegal., it would seem to follow that the goods they made were also illegal. Somehow.
The label should say “made in illegal Israeli settlements” or better yet, NO goods made in whole or in part in settlements or by settlers or under direction of settlers or for profit of Israelis and made in occupied territories should be allowed to be imported for sale. By any country signatory of Fourth Geneva Convention.
The resources of a non-self-governing territory are the “property” of its legitimate citizens.
Israel is obliged as the “Occupying Power” Laws of War Art. 55. “The occupying State shall be regarded only as administrator and usufructuary of public buildings, real estate, forests, and agricultural estates belonging to the hostile State, and situated in the occupied country. It must safeguard the capital of these properties, and administer them in accordance with the rules of usufruct.”
It is a war crime to use Palestinian resources to benefit illegal settlers.
@ talknic,
Q: It is a war crime to use Palestinian resources to benefit illegal settlers.
R: Not as long as you’re able [and willing] to argue that their wasn’t a Palestine, you keep referring to the lands you occupy by its biblical names like ‘Judea and Samaria’ and see [non-existing] Palestinians as target practice objects, you don’t…
Not as long as you’re able [and willing] to argue that their wasn’t a Palestine
That’s sort of a difficult thing to do. The US State Department “Digest of International Law”; the State Department Bulletin; and the State Department “Foreign Relations of the United States”-series all contain documentary evidence that there was a country called “Arab Palestine”.
They also report the details of the resolutions of the Jericho Congress; the fact that the US government accepted the underlying principles; and that the US recognized the union between Arab Palestine and the Hashemite Kingdom.
For example:
*The State Department Bulletin Vol. 22 for January 1950 reported that the United Nations had sent the Clapp Mission to the Middle East countries of Lebanon, Jordan, Arab Palestine, and Syria. The Economic Survey Mission for the Middle East, headed by Gordon R. Clapp, chairman of the Board of Directors of the Tennessee Valley Authority recommended four projects involving the Wadi Zerqa basin in Jordan, the Wadi Qilt watershed and stream bed in Arab Palestine, the Litani River in Lebanon, and the Ghab Swamps in Syria. (Kindle version Locations 4706- 4727).
*The State Department Digest of International Law 1963 devoted an entire chapter to “Territory and Sovereignty of States”. In § 8 “Annexation” there is a discussion about the acquisition of sovereignty over the West Bank by Jordan on the basis of the four resolutions of the Second Arab Palestine Conference (aka Jericho Congress) held on December 1, 1948. Note: A few weeks after the Congress the name of Transjordan was officially changed to the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan to reflect the new joint status (January 21, 1949). The Digest also described US recognition of the union between Arab Palestine and Transjordan as an expression of the sovereign will of the two peoples. Secretary of State Acheson stated at his April 26, 1950 press conference that “The elections which were held on the 11th were on the basis of the incorporation of Arab Palestine into the Hashemite Kingdom. Those elections have taken place and this action of the parliament will be to ratify that decision. Now, our American attitude is that we have no objection whatever to the union of peoples mutually desirous of this new relationship.” See pages 1163-1168 of Marjorie M. Whiteman (editor), Digest of International Law, vol. 2 (Washington, DC: U. S. Government Printing Office, 1963)
*The 1950 FRUS contains a Memorandum of Conversation, between Mr. Stuart W. Rockwell of the Office of African and Near Eastern Affairs and Mr. Abdel Monem Rifai, Counselor, Jordan Legation in Washington, June 5, 1950 which officially documents the US recognition of the union between Arab Palestine and Jordan and the sovereignty of the new joint entity over the new territory. An Editorial note on the same page explains that Congress had funded the projects recommended by the UN Clapp Mission. See Foreign relations of the United States, 1950. The Near East, South Asia, and Africa, Volume V (1950), Page 921
*It is also a matter of public record in the United States that the use of the term Palestine “enrages individual Israelis”. So I imagine that Mondoweiss has them in an apoplectic state most of the time. See Foreign Relations of the United States, 1961-1963, Vol. Xviii, Near East, United States. Dept. of State, G.P.O., 1995, ISBN 0160451590, page 341.
the first link is still very encouraging tho. last week the EU issued a scathing report “EU condemns Israeli settlement construction, evictions”
link to uk.reuters.com
and the implications (imho) are trending in the direction of UK/ denmark decision to label settlement products. from piotr link to mondoweiss.net
One disconcerting trend noted by the IEI was a 16% drop in Israel’s exports to the European Union, which came to $3.6 billion.
link to ynetnews.com
If Israeli exports to EU are going down, that would seem to be a result of BDS and other “people power” decisions, not government acts. The statements of dismay by EU (exact quote: “Oh dear, oh dear, Israel has demolished stuff we paid for, Oh dear”) are mere words, as usual, because due to USA pressure and AIPAC-like pressure, and perhaps residual Holocaust guilt and/or pity, EU governments find it impossible to ACT. Nation-state-level BDS is a long way off, by all signs.
“If Israeli exports to EU are going down, that would seem to be a result of BDS and other “people power” decisions, not government acts.”
Hopefully. But we cannot be certain how many % of this drop is the result of BDS. The usual consumer might only boycott imported foodstuffs labeled as “Israel” and some of Israel’s exports are seasonal. The European crisis adds to the problem.
i am not sure about that pabelmont. check this out:
link to euobserver.com
link to thinkprogress.org
“The Israeli government said the E.U. statement was “based on a partial, biased and one-sided depiction of realities on the ground.””
Words fail me on how contrary to all men these alternate universe dwellers are.
Here is the link to text of the full European Neighbourhood Policy Progress Report for Israel and some download links:
link to europa.eu
There was also a three page statement, “Council conclusions on the Middle East Peace Process, 3166th Foreign Affairs Council meeting, Brussels, 14 May 2012 which unambiguously stated:
– link to consilium.europa.eu (pdf)
It is just 49 million EUR , a drop in the ocean compared to 3bn USD in annual aid but if that number becomes known to the average european on the street Israel will lose her forever. Europe has been underwriting Israel for the last 60+ years and believes in the 2 state solution that Israel has destroyed. Ultimately Israel survives because the goys of europe have been looking the other way for the last 45 years. But when Europe invests in infrastructure to build up the Palestinian economy and Israel trashes it a red line is crossed.
We all know that Israel doesn^t give a %&ç* about the property rights of non jews in erez israel. And we know how bigoted many settlers are and how difficult it is to be a christian in jerusalem these days. It takes 49 m EUR in destroyed infrastructure that was built in GOOD FAITH to show the face of Israel to the people of Europe.
I would love to see Danon explaining this in Brussels.
Seriously. These Islamophobia arguments are so retarded anybody who falls for it is a complete and utter halfwit.
Seriously. These Islamophobia arguments are so retarded anybody who falls for it is a complete and utter halfwit.
While normative Judaism might be considered “a pillar of European society”, the Israeli variety stopped worrying about normality a long, long, time ago:
link to ynetnews.com
Over the past decade the DPP’s number of political seats has doubled in, making the group the largest extremist party in Denmark.
according to wiki, they have more than doubled in the “European Parliament elections”
Election # of seats won # of total votes % of popular vote
1999 1 114,865 5.8%
2004 1 128,789 6.8%
2009 2 357,942 15.3%
but in “Parliamentary elections” , while they almost doubled between 98 and 2001 (12%) the last election they were almost the same @ 12.3%.
Election # of seats won # of total votes % of popular vote
1998 13 252,429 7.4%
2001 22 413,987 12.0%
2005 24 444,205 13.2%
2007 25 479,532 13.8%
2011 22 436.726 12.3%
link to en.wikipedia.org
is the “”European Parliament elections” denmark’s vote for their EU representatives?
@ Annie: Yes indeed. EU countries have 2 sets of elections. I think the percentage of votes a party gets in the European parliament election determines on how many reps they send to the EU parliament.
thank you blake.
This article caricatures European politics. For those who hate Israel, the Danish Peoples Party, the French National Front, the English Defence League (not DefenSe!), the Vlaams Belang, the Austrian Freedom Party, the Dutch PVV, are all the same. But then, to a man in love with his hammer, everything looks like a nail! These parties are all vastly different–the Dutch and Danish parties cannot even be called right-wing, much less extreme right on any issue other than immigration.
With any luck the Dutch may actually put the PVV in power. European politics are much more dynamic than this demonstrates.
They’re not that different. The Danes and Wilders’s PVV have figured out a bit earlier that there’s no profit in hating Jews anymore and that hating Muslims is all the rage, but the rest of them, including the French Front National, are following in their footsteps.
As for the Dutch putting the PVV in power: the PVV supported a rightwing minority government of Christian Democrats and the market-fundamentalist VVD until last month, which had a very slight majority even with PVV support, but collapsed the minute Wilders withdrew that support. Wilders sold out on all his supposed ‘left wing’ election promises, but then decided he couldn’t live with the EU norm of a deficit of no more than 3%, even though he was demanding that everyone else stick to it less than a year earlier. Wilders may not have lost support among voters yet, but the ‘respectable’ right has had its fill of trying to please him.
I think you’re right, there’s not enough in common between the populists of the PVV and the conservatives of the Dutch mainstream. He did sell out on some, but not all, left wing issues, but the Party hasn’t changed.
Terryscott,
Catching up on Geert Wilders:
BEGIN ARTICLE
TITLE Geert Wilders’ Speech at Gatestone Luncheon in Manhattan today
PUBLICATION Colony Rabble
DATE May 1, 2012
URL link to redcounty.com
BEGIN QUOTE
The Hon. Geert Wilders, leader of the Freedom Party (PPV in the Netherlands, kicked off promotion of his new book, Marked for Death: Islam’s War Against the West and Me with a luncheon address at the Four Seasons Restaurant sponsored by the Gatestone Institutte, hosted by Nina Rosenwald. Among others In the audience were Andy Bostom and Ibn Warriq. What follows is the text of Wilders’ address. Our review of Wilders’ book was published in the May edition of the NER, “Geert Wilders, Defender of the West Against Grand Jihad”. He is scheduled to be interviewd on “Hannity’s America” on Fox News during the 9:00PM EDT program.
END QUOTE
END ARTICLE
Love the title of his new book: “Marked for Death: Islam’s War Against the West and Me”
Some key Wilders’ links:
1. Andrew Bostom
2. Fox News
3. Gatestone Institute
4. Ibn Warraq
5. New English Review
6. Nina Rosenwald
7. Sean Hannity
(Who funds the Gatestone Institute? What is the editorial agenda of New English Review? We are all familiar with the editorial agenda of Rupert Murdoch and Fox News.)
A few Wilders quotes:
1. “Islam is the largest threat to freedom which the world is currently facing.”
2. “This violent ideology wants to impose Islamic sharia law on the whole world, including us the Kafirs, the non-Muslims.”
3. “Our Judeo-Christian and humanist civilization is far superior to any other civilizations like the barbaric Islamic civilization.”
4. “We must reassert our national identities. The nation-state enables self-government and self-determination. This insight led the Zionists to establish Israel as the homeland of the Jews.”
5. “Zionism teaches us one of the most important lessons which the modern world needs today. Theodor Herzl argued that a Jewish state would facilitate “a new blossoming of the Jewish spirit.” Today, we need our own respective nation-states to preside over a new blossoming of our own Western spirit.”
6. “Israel is, indeed, a vital outpost of Western civilization. That is why Islam conditions the faithful to hate the Jewish state and to view its destruction as an imperative. It is our duty to stand with Israel.”
This is classical Nazi rhetoric, with Muslims substituted for Jews. Wilders hits all the main supremacist and xenophobic themes that Anders Breivik (the Norwegian mass murderer, neo-Nazi and pro-Israel militant) developed in his deranged manifesto.
Wow — we’ve hit the mother lode. Gatestone Institute appears to be dominated by the same neoconservatives and Likud Zionists who are responsible for the worst foreign policy disaster in American history — the Iraq War:
# Gatestone Institute columnists
// link to gatestoneinstitute.org
1. Alan Dershowitz
2. Amir Taheri
3. Andrew Bostom
4. Andrew McCarthy
5. Anne Bayefsky
6. Barry Rubin
7. Bat Ye’or
8. Benny Avni
9. Dan Aridor
10. Daniel Pipes
11. David Horowitz
12. Diana West
13. Dore Gold
14. Douglas Feith
15. Efraim Karsh
16. Fjordman
17. Geert Wilders
18. Gerald Steinberg
19. Harold Rhode
20. Herbert London
21. Irwin Cotler
22. Jeremy Slater
23. John Bolton
24. Jonathan Kay
25. Jonathan Schanzer
26. Lawrence Franklin
27. Lee Smith
28. Mark Silverberg
29. Martin Kramer
30. Michael Rubin
31. Natan Sharansky
32. Noah Pollak
33. Robert Spencer
34. Shoshana Bryen
35. Steven Emerson
36. Steven Rosen
37. Ted Belman
38. Yigal Carmon
Jeremy Slater? Really?
Digging even deeper into Gatestone Institute by way of the affiliations of its columnists, one finds almost a solid wall of Likud Zionist front groups:
# Gatestone organizational links by columnists
1. Academic Friends of Israel
2. ACPR (Ariel Center for Policy Research)
3. Adelson Institute for Strategic Studies
4. AEI (American Enteprise Institute)
5. Bar-Ilan University
6. Commentary
7. FDD (Foundation for the Defense of Democracies)
8. GLORIA (Gloria Research in International Affairs Center)
9. Henry Jackson Society
10. Hoover Institution
11. Hudson Institute
12. Investigative Project on Terrorism
13. Israel National News
14. Israpundit
15. JCPA (Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs)
16. JINSA (Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs)
17. Maariv
18. MEMRI (Middle East Media Research Institute)
19. Middle East Forum
20. NGO Monitor
21. Stonegate Institute
22. Vidal Sassoon International Center for the Study of Antisemitism
23. WINEP (Washington Institute for Near East Policy)
Quite simply, Geert Wilders is largely an Israeli op. The Israel lobby is pushing him forward on the world political stage as an agitator for the neocon Clash of Civilizations of behalf of Greater Israel.
In order to survive and to justify its own racist policies, Israel needs to turn Europeans and Americans into fanatical racists and xenophobes. That’s how the game is being played. The psychological ops and propaganda to produce this massive culture shift to the dark side are relentless. This is the political machine that has engineered the takeover of the Republican Party and the US Congress by Christian Zionists and Islamophobes.
Re: the political matrix and agenda of New English Review:
# New English Review organizational links by editorial staff
// link to newenglishreview.org
1. American Thinker
2. Commentary
3. Frontpage Magazine
4. Iconoclast
5. Israpundit
6. Jerusalem Post
7. Jihad Watch
8. Middle East Forum
9. National Review
10. New York Sun
11. Pajamas Media
12. Wall Street Journal
13. Washington Times
14. World Encounter Institute
15. Worldnetdaily
We’ve got the picture.
Mondoweiss readers: this neocon political movement is far more extensive, powerful and energetic than you might realize. There are many influential people out there who are eager to get the United States and Europe involved in a global holy war against more than a billion Muslims on behalf of Likud Zionism and Greater Israel. The multi-trillion dollar failures of the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars, which have come close to destroying the American economy, have deterred them not in the least. They are ideological fanatics.
It gets better:
# New English Review links (selected)
// link to newenglishreview.org
1. American Thinker
2. CSP (Center for Security Policy)
3. EDL (English Defence League)
4. FDD (Foundation for the Defense of Democracies)
5. Gates of Vienna
6. John Derbyshire
7. Lucianne
8. Mark Steyn
9. Martin Kramer
10. Melanie Phillips
11. MEMRI (Middle East Media Research Institute)
12. National Review
What we are witnessing is an amazing merger of Zionism (Jewish nationalism) with European nationalism (white nationalism, neo-Nazism). The Derbyshire and EDL links give the game away. They are not even bothering to try to hide their racist agenda at this point — it’s out in the open. They are convinced that they can drag Americans and Europeans along with them. Who knows — another 9/11 would probably do the trick.
Edit:
GLORIA (Gloria Research in International Affairs Center) should read GLORIA (Global Research in International Affairs Center)
You know, I would be surprised if anyone (including individual lobby leaders themselves) is capable of grasping the full operations of the Israel lobby — the list of organizations and front groups seems to be endless. Gatestone Institute and New English Review are components of the network (as I learned today).
But: a few dozen people — probably fewer than one hundred — apparently pull all the strings of the web. So I guess they know what is going on. It’s their op. The vast majority of Jews are not in the loop.
Great research Sean but I’m not convinced this is where Zionism is putting its main bets in Europe. I think similar research would show Zionist influence networks across the whole political spectrum in Europe. Call it what you want. Covering all bases. Divide and conquer. Having it both (all?) ways. That’s the key pattern.
It’s rather like it doesn’t much matter who gets into the White House so long as it isn’t Ron Paul. And we saw how he was attacked by people across the political spectrum.
And don’t look for any ideological consistency within the neocon ranks except the pursuit of power and support for Israel. They are at one with neo-liberalism and that is very pro-immigration into the West unlike these fringe-right parties.
“Love the title of his new book: “Marked for Death: Islam’s War Against the West and Me””
Tell me about it. It’s like “Adolf Hitler: My role in his downfall”
libra,
You wrote:
“Great research Sean but I’m not convinced this is where Zionism is putting its main bets in Europe. I think similar research would show Zionist influence networks across the whole political spectrum in Europe. Call it what you want. Covering all bases. Divide and conquer. Having it both (all?) ways. That’s the key pattern.”
Oh, I fully agree. The Israel lobby tries to control all sides of political debates not just in Europe and America but *worldwide*. The Israel lobby is an integrated global network that cuts across the political spectrum from the far right to the far left.
Consider the role of the RJC (Republican Jewish Coalition) and NJDC (National Jewish Democratic Council) in the United States: their agenda revolves much more around the Israeli interest than the Republican or Democratic interest. They are in fact two arms of a single lobby.
But I *do* think that the Israeli government and the Israel lobby have placed an enormous bet on stirring up a holy war between “the West” and Islam worldwide, which they hope to use as a diversion and distraction from Israel’s continuing project to construct Greater Israel and gobble up the occupied territories. In this game Republicans dish out an endless torrent of anti-Muslim hate speech while most “progressive” and “liberal” Democrats stand quietly on the sidelines and offer no effective opposition, just as they offered no significant opposition to the Iraq War. Pretty slick. And they are succeeding in achieving their objectives.
You wrote:
“And don’t look for any ideological consistency within the neocon ranks except the pursuit of power and support for Israel. They are at one with neo-liberalism and that is very pro-immigration into the West unlike these fringe-right parties.”
Indeed. By asking the right surgical questions one can expose this absurd hypocrisy and uncover their real agenda.
I think you’re missing the point, of why extreme right wing parties in Europe are so in love with zionism.
I think it is largely because Zionism still has huge amounts of money to throw around at everyone who’s willing to support it and Israel.
Terryscott,
Where are you coming from on these issues?
1. nation of citizenship:
2. religion of upbringing:
3. current religion:
4. ethnicity:
5. political affiliation:
Are you sympathetic to these neo-fascist movements in European politics? Are you pro or anti ethnic nationalism in general?
(I am not assuming anything about your political agenda so far — I don’t know what it is.)
seanmcbride wrote:
“Terryscott, Where are you coming from on these issues?”
Wow–all this interest in little old me!
OK, glad to oblige.
1. nation of citizenship: Ireland
2. religion of upbringing: None, but my people are all Roman Catholic
3. current religion: Atheist. I hate Christianity, Judaism and Islam, roughly in proportion to its number of adherents worldwide.
4. ethnicity: Irish. There may be some Travellers in us, but we’re Castlebar on my mother’s side and Derry on my father’s.
5. political affiliation: Fine Gael
Are you sympathetic to these neo-fascist movements in European politics? Are you pro or anti ethnic nationalism in general?
I don’t like fascists or neo-fascists at all! Ethnic nationalism really depends on the “eth,” doesn’t it? Irish nationalism is fine with me, up to a point. I’m not terribly bothered by Basque, Breton, or Jewish nationalism. Russian and Serb nationalism are more of a problem.
Terryscott
You’re not Jewish? LOL
And yet you’re a rabid Zionist ideologue who apparently has been doing ‘research’ in Turkey. What research? You also were knowledgable on news on late 1990s New York City police blah blah in the Orthodox Jewish community or something along those lines.
In other words, ‘Terryscott’, you’re just another sock puppet troll masquerading under another ethnic identity. Just as other hacks before you (Michael LeFavaour/the other identity he made up who’s name I’ve already forgotten/yonira and his various accounts/etc. etc. the list goes on and on and on and on)
As someone who has been reading and commenting on Mondoweiss since before the Gaza Massacre of 2008, I can spot a sock puppet / Zionist troll when I see one.
There is nothing more pathetic than pretending to be something you’re not and then using that as a shield for your political ideology.
Once you’ve failed, you just try another ethnic identity and another story though, right? Research in Turkey? LOL
Cliff, don’t blow Terry’s cover. Not after he spent all that time sheep dipping himself in Istanbul with the bemused carpet vendors of the Great Bazaar. “The names Scott, Terry Scott. From Ireland to be shure, to save yer askin.”
It’s hardly his fault that he failed to infiltrate the flotilla. After eight pints of Guinness in the William Joyce Irish Bar, anyone could have got on the wrong bus for the docks.
So now poor old Terry is stuck in a cubicle, clicking a keyboard under the ever watchful eye of the hateful Oleg. But no doubt not for long. Terry, with his photographic memory for zip codes, could pop up anywhere. Next time you’re in a mall, look for an Irishman selling Dead Sea soap from a handcart. No woman will be safe from this seductive charmer. Achtung, Frau Merkel!
You people must run in small circles indeed! How in the world could an Irishman now anything about NYC politics!?
So to end the endless mystery that is me, I am writing a dissertation on Ottoman Palestine at Bilkent University. I went to NYU in the late 90s, spent a miserable year at SOAS, and gave up academia all together. I was convinced by a friend to come to Bilkent–a mixed experience. My coursework is done now.
Oh aye Cliffy they are all and everyone depending on what voice is in their heads at any given moment.
Terryscott,
Thanks for your self-profile.
Can you point us to any of your Internet posts on Irish nationalism for the last few years?
Terryscott,
Is this about right?
BEGIN PROFILE
# Terryscott profile
1. nation of citizenship: Ireland
2. ethnicity: Irish
3. religion: atheist
4. religion of family: Roman Catholic
5. political affiliation: Fine Gael
6. anti-Abrahamic monotheism
7. anti-Christian
8. anti-fascism
9. anti-Islam
10. anti-Judaism
11. anti-Russian nationalism
12. anti-Serb nationalism
13. anti-theocracy
14. pro-Basque nationalism
15. pro-Breton nationalism
16. pro-Irish nationalism
17. pro-Jewish nationalism
END PROFILE
What about your pros and cons for:
1. Arab nationalism
2. black nationalism
3. Christian Zionism
4. Dutch PVV
5. EDL (English Defence League)
6. Geert Wilders
7. Iran War
8. Iraq War
9. Islamophobia
10. Israeli settlements
11. neoconservatism
12. Palestinian nationalism
13. religious Zionism
14. white nationalism
If you or anyone else is wondering what all these questions are about:
After observing many messy and flailing online debates, I am beginning to develop the seed of an insight: before beginning a discussion, online debaters should make an effort to exhaustively understand one another’s ideological views and overall political agenda. After working through that process, then begin a discussion of particular issues. I suspect that such a protocol would significantly improve the clarity and usefulness of debates — more light, less noise.
Playforpalestine didn’t seem to appreciate the value of working through this process and declaring his basic views and beliefs. In fact, I think he is interested in concealing his basic views and beliefs.
Terryscott,
There are significant differences between Irish nationalism and Jewish nationalism. Irish nationalists
1. are not bogged down in embittered arguments and conflicts with non-Irish nationalists all around the world.
2. are not demanding enormous sums of American financial and military aid.
3. are not trying to stir up major wars between “the West” and more than a billion Muslims worldwide.
4. are not oppressing other ethnic groups or trying to steal their land.
5. are not trying to justify aggressive behavior in the name of biblical myths.
6. are not trying to establish an official Irish ethnic nationalist state in Ireland which provides special privileges to the Irish.
7. are not launching an assault on the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.
As for me, I am an Americanist, not an ethnic nationalist of any kind. I identify with all my fellow Americans, who come from many ethnic and religious backgrounds. I love American cultural diversity.
Terryscott,
In skimming a few articles about Fine Gael I didn’t detect a whiff of strident or messianic Irish ethnic nationalism (not to mention strident or messianic Zionism) in their agenda.
If you want to flesh out this profile of Fine Gael, please do:
BEGIN PROFILE
# Fine Gael profile
1. anti-?
2. pro-Christian democracy
3. pro-civil unions
4. pro-EPP (European People’s Party)
5. pro-equal opportunity
6. pro-EU (European Union)
7. pro-European Constitution
8. pro-European integration
9. pro-fiscal conservatism
10. pro-free enterprise
11. pro-individual rights
12. pro-Labour Party (Ireland)
13. pro-law and order
14. pro-Lisbon Treaty
15. pro-Michael Collins
16. pro-small business
17. pro-social democracy
END PROFILE
sean, a little birdie told me terry the
irishmanmight not be with us any longer.Annie,
If would be a great disappointment to discover that Terryscott has misrepresented himself. But I know that kind of thing goes on quite often in Israeli hasbara circles. I don’t make accusations on these matters until I have firm proof. Let’s see how this plays out.
To add to the list of important differences between Irish and Jewish nationalism: Irish nationalists:
8. are not engaging in espionage against America on behalf of the Irish government.
9. are not promoting the propaganda theme that “the Irish people” worldwide comprise a mystical and messianic ethnic collective.
10. are not operating under the belief that “the Irish people” are on a holy mission to redeem the world.
11. are not fusing aggressive Irish ethnic nationalism with aggressive Christian nationalism.
12. do not define themselves in radical contradistinction to “the nations” (all nations and peoples except Ireland — all non-Irish).
13. do not dominate the op-ed pages of leading American newspapers.
14. have not threatened to take down the entire world with them if their political enterprise fails (the Samson Option).
15. are not developing a large arsenal of nuclear weapons.
16. were not ringleaders of the Iraq War.
17. are not ringleaders of the campaign to attack Iran.
18. are not torture enthusiasts.
19. are not conducting assassinations all around the world.
Annie,
If Mondoweiss was able to determine definitively that Terryscott was operating behind a false biography, and that he was lying shamelessly about his Irish background, it would be enlightening to know the details (without revealing his personal identity) so that we can detect the signs of similar ops in the future.
You know, I think many pro-Israel militants are addicted to this kind of dishonest and deceitful behavior — and they think they are being clever. I have seen a number of instances of it in the past. But in fact they are being quite stupid and self-destructive — they are helping to destroy good relations between Israel and the rest of the world.
There is a term to describe people and personalities who engage in habitual deception and malicious manipulation in their dealings with the world: sociopaths.
Mossad motto: By way of deception, thou shalt wage war.
The huge downside for Israel: the entire world is now quick to look for deception, dirty tricks and false flag ops with regard to everything associated with pro-Israel activism. Honest pro-Israel activists are being tainted and discredited by the multitude of these nasty ops.
There has been a great deal of speculation on the Internet about a possible Israeli role in 9/11 precisely because Israel over the years has accumulated a well-documented track record in conducting false flag ops. Why Israel ever chose to go down this path, starting at least as early in 1954 with Operation Susannah (the Lavon Affair) is a great mystery — Israelis are supposed to be smarter than other people. (9/11 and the 9/11 anthrax attacks fit the Operation Susannah and USS Liberty templates to a tee.)
(Terry: if you want to tell your side of the story, drop me a private message at Friendfeed http://www.friendfeed.com And Mondoweiss on Friendfeed link to friendfeed.com is always open for nearly all discussion.)
Terryscott,
You wrote:
“These parties are all vastly different–the Dutch and Danish parties cannot even be called right-wing, much less extreme right on any issue other than immigration. With any luck the Dutch may actually put the PVV in power.”
So: you are pro-PVV?
I quickly Googled around on PVV and put together these facts:
# Dutch PVV profile
1. anti-climate change activism
2. anti-dual citizenship
3. anti-immigration
4. anti-Muslim
5. pro-gay rights
6. pro-Geert Wilders
7. pro-gender equality
8. pro-Jewish nationalism (Zionism)
9. pro-Judeo-Christian
10. pro-nuclear power
11. pro-white nationalism
From Wikipedia:
“The political position and the ideology of the party are hotly debated. In December 2008, the eighth study “Monitor Racism and Extremism”, conducted by the Anne Frank Foundation and the University of Leiden, has found that the Party for Freedom can be considered extreme right-wing, although “with ifs and buts”. Peter Rodrigues and Jaap van Donselaar, who have academically guided the study, explain this classification with the islamophobia, nationalism, and “sharp aversion to the strange”, subsumed as racism, which they have observed within the party.”
link to en.wikipedia.org
The PVV is pro-gay rights only in as far as the Israeli government is: it is great for pretending to be liberal, but if you really have to take a stand, then forget it if it’s too much trouble. The PVV is pro-gay rights and pro-gender equality on paper only and only because it makes Muslims look bad in comparison.
Tzombo,
That is what I immediately assumed: they are using gay rights and feminism as a fig leaf for their hate-filled racism. I’ll wager they never discuss the virulently anti-gay and anti-feminist attitudes espoused by their Christian and Jewish fundamentalist Zionist allies. It’s a scam.
Yeah, the PVV supported government actually relied upon a tiny Christian fundamentalist party a couple of times. In return for that they gave up plans to scratch the ban on blasphemy that the PVV supposedly wanted. They are a rightwing party at the core. The rest is just populism, which takes a different form here than in the US.
Terryscott: For those who hate Israel … [these parties] are all the same.
Nice try (and so easy). Actually they are the same in being Islamophobic. Now let’s see where they get their money from.
Think of such mis-labeled goods as smuggled. Since the Israel label has become meaningless, the sensible thing is to boycott all goods from Israel.
The main conclusion to draw from this article is that Zionism (Jewish ethnic nationalism) and Nazism (European ethnic nationalism) are natural allies — up to a point. (At some point it is a safe bet that white nationalist Judeophobia will spill over into militant anti-Zionism — just wait and see. At the moment European neo-Nazis are making some elementary chess moves on the board, forming temporary alliances to move their agenda forward.)
All ethnic nationalist movements share a common enemy — modern Western democratic values — and they often cooperate with one another to wage war against that enemy and to justify their ethnic nationalist approach to politics.
There are many data points to support this thesis from examining the history of Zionist relations with Nazi Germany and apartheid white South Africa. Many of Israel’s strongest boosters in contemporary America (especially Christian Zionists) are grounded in the Bible-based racist culture of the Southern Confederacy. Ethnic nationalists of all varieties tend to flock together and they all tend to be extremely violent and hostile to the rule of law.
It would be a huge mistake to underestimate how great a threat this movement represents for Europe and the United States. Neocons (mostly militant Jewish ethnic and religious nationalists) and Christian Zionists have already seized control of the US Congress and many other strategic institutions in American life. They are systematically undoing the US Constitution and Bill of Rights and destroying core American values.
The problem is much worse than I suspect even most Mondoweiss readers realize.
These are the topics to look into in depth with the objective of connecting all the dots:
1. Zionism+British imperialism
2. Zionism+German Nazism
3. Zionism+Afrikaner South Africa
4. Zionism+American neo- and crypto-Confederates
5. Zionism+European neo-Nazis
Allison Deger’s article provides a few important facts about topic 5.
Charles Johnson of Little Green Footballs has been doing a first-rate job of exploring the same topic during the last year or two.
The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations [cptur] 2008[SI No 1277 ] was Transposed into UK law from the European Community Legislation, the Unfair Commercial Practices Directive [UCPD] all European countries have had to put this into their National Laws or regulations, these relate to unfair commercial practices, of which wrongful Labelling is an obvious example, to which a UK minister has admitted, a trader would almost certainly be committing a criminal offence if he labelled something originating in OPT as coming from Israel, the EU rules of origin are that goods originate not where they have been shipped from but where they are deemed to have been produced or manufactured, so there are criminal laws in place to stop traders misleading consumers, many people thought only the Trading standards authorities could bring prosecutions, not true,here’s how a private prosecution can take place — (Public) private prosecutions
Although it is usually the case that prosecutions are brought by prosecuting authorities, most notably by the police / Crown Prosecution Service or local authorities, it does not necessarily mean that a private individual cannot launch his own prosecution. Some statutes are proscriptive in terms of who may prosecute under them. S 83(1) of the Weights and Measures Act 1985, for example, provides that proceedings for most offences under that Act shall not be instituted by or on behalf of anyone other than a local weights and measures authority or the chief of police. Other statutes, however, including the TDA and CPA, have no such limitations.
In MFI Furniture Centre Ltd v Hibbert (1996) 160 JP 178, Balcombe LJ said: “S 27(1)(a) of the [CPA], which imposes a duty upon every weights and measures authority … to enforce [within their area the safety provisions and the] provisions of Part III of the Act, does not limit the powers of others to prosecute. Thus Mr Hibbert, [the local authority officer who laid the information in this case] like any other person, had the power to prosecute – see, e.g., s 6 of the Prosecution of Offences Act 1985. … I am at present in correspondence with Asda Stores Who amongst others stock Soda Stream products from Mishor Edomin in OPT [ these products were forced to pay the proper import duty after the EUJ court case in 2010 Brita GmbH v Hauptzollamp Hamberg-Hafen,case No C-386/08 25:02:2010, the verdict was goods goods manufactured in West Bank cannot be considered made in Israel, and although they do not now have a made in Israel label on them in my opinion still breach this regulation, because it is a misleading omission under regulation 6. Information a consumer would need to know when purchasing such products, for example whether that purchase aided or abetted or in in any way contributed to the financial/commercial viability of those illegal enterprises[ which of course they must do]and ongoing war crimes. This for me is still a work in progress.
Here in the US, the State Department and President have squared-off with Congress over the recognition of Israel’s unilateral annexation of Jerusalem.
Elsewhere in the OPT, the Treasury Department follows the State Department Oslo era policy on Country of Origin markings, e.g.
62 FR 12269 – Country of Origin Marking of Products From the West Bank and Gaza link to gpo.gov
I wonder what effect the attack on that Danish cyclist had on Danish public opinion.
It’s not impossible that different peoples (tribes, “ethnies”) grant each other an ethno-national state – in the same way in which different persons grant each other personal property like a house or a garden.
It’s difficult, of course. The most natural feeling will always be: I must have a “homeland” of my own, and at the same time I must have complete and equal access to all other countries. An idea, which can not work and which has to be dismissed.
Both parts – the European nationalists and the Jews – have to go a long way to arrive at that goal. But it’s not impossible, and it’s not even more improbable than the leftist solution: that all ethno-national states are to be abolished.
Just had a look at Haaretz – 3 BDS-related stories (South Africa, Denmark and UK Coop) at the top of the page. An Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman called the SA decision “racist”. LOL
What a weird assessment of the nationalistic nation state. The countries of N and S America, subsaharan Africa, India, Indonesia, and increasingly, most of Europe are multicultural if not multi linguistic. Your views are so 19th century, just like Israel.
What is needed is a challenge to Ahava in the form of a petition or injunction along the lines of the excellent Yesh Din petition in the Quarries case in the Israeli High court, quarrying material from occupied territory is no more nor less a natural resource than minerals from the Dead Sea, in fact the similarities are striking, all the same International Law arguments deployed by Yesh Din could be used to greater effect in a UK court, I am sure the Israeli courts perverse verdict would not be repeated. Unfortunately the Lawyers for Palestinian Human Rights in the UK, don’t appear to want to make these challenges, all they seem to be interested in are collecting funds and more funds God knows what they spend them on, all I know is that any communication I try to make with them on these matters is ignored, I am sure they mean well, but a perusal of the number of cases they have taken over the years is instructive ie pathetic, they seem to be reduced to a letter writing campaign, one Lawyer writing a letter to the Home or Foreign office with 100 others endorsing it.