Alice in Wonderland (courtesy of the Freedom Theater, Jenin)
Yesterday a commenter linked to the Israeli entry in the Eurovision Song Contest. The band is called Izabo, the song is called "Time." Video below.
Well I found something eerily familiar in the song. Its mood and characters reminded me of the late Juliano Mer Khamis's "Alice in Wonderland" piece from The Freedom Theater in Jenin. Video below, right after Izabo's.
Similar, huh? I don't know if Izabo saw Juliano's piece, with its soundtrack from Blondie, but I sure got to wonder. Imitation may be the sincerest form of flattery, but maybe they should have given credit to Juliano.
Who was, by the way, a genius. Izabo, not so much. They were eliminated yesterday. Here's their song (warning, plug your ears).
And Juliano's Alice in Wonderland:
Somehow, I get the feeling you’d like the song if its performers weren’t Jewish Israelis.
Somehow I get the feeling that you are imposing your bigotry on Annie.
The song is hideous, regardless of who is singing it.
hmm, this isn’t really my type of music. even worse was their live performance, which was probably why they got cut in the final 10.
but hey, if it makes any difference to you i really wasn’t thrilled with any of the eurovision entries i watched. i thought the woman from albania was impressive tho. but the entries as whole i found very unimpressive. israel didn’t stand out in that regard, not in my mind.
@ Annie
“even worse was their live performance, which was probably why they got cut in the final 10.”
Actually, the German commentator said that in his opinion the song would have deserved to make it to the final. And this is my view, too.
The thing is that a lot of ESC viewers vote for their favourite country rather than for their favourite song. For example, we have a lot of Turkish people here in Germany. That’s why Germany’s 12 points go to Turkey almost every year, even if the song is crappy. Also, Sweden and Norway as well as UK and Ireland usually give each other the maximum score. When this happens, you can sometimes hear the audience boo in the background.
@ Izik
“I get the feeling you’d like the song if its performers weren’t Jewish Israelis.”
I really don’t think that Annie is this kind of person. She just has a different taste. So, don’t you dare accuse her of hatred.
the German commentator said that in his opinion the song would have deserved to make it to the final…ESC viewers vote for their favourite country rather than for their favourite song
German commentators can do that too. either way, the proof is in the pudding. i expressed my initial reaction in the other thread, no need to go into detail here. ;)
eljay mentioned ABBAS-esque..i sort of agree. i think there’s a different pallet in europe for certain kinds of music vs the US. i could never figure out what people saw (or heard) in abba.
that albania entry reminded me of bjork tho..cool hairdo and outfit!
anyway, i know you liked it german lefty, i think we will have to part ways over pop music.
Omg Americans are watching eurovision now
where does the world going to…
Should have asked that question when “israel” was admitted seeing as it is not even in Europe. You may be interested to learn, as lame as it is, some songs from said contest have charted in the Billboard Hot 100 through the years.
@ OlegR
At least, watching Eurovision doesn’t get anyone killed, tortured or evicted. Watching Eurovision is an entirely peaceful activity. You should try it sometime.
@ Annie
It’s okay. We don’t have to agree on absolutely everything.
I used to Lefty but
lately they all sing in English mostly lousy pop songs.
I enjoyed it when the songs were performed in native languages.
I enjoyed it when the songs were performed in native languages.
Oleg, I can’t believe it. There is actually something that we agree on.
@ OlegR,
side note:
Q: where does the world going to…
R: it’s heading to a crash course in English grammar…
Duly noted, kind sir.
OlegR
Israel is in Asia, so what is it doing in the Eurovision contest?
The same goes for all other european sport events.
We should also allow Lebanon, Syria, Marocco, Algier and Tunisia to aprticipate, they all are much NEARER to Europe.
So allow it.The more the merrier.
“So allow it.The more the merrier.”
That’s what we keep saying about permitting voting by the Palestinians in the West Bank for seats in the Knesset…
Previous Israeli entries that I like:
“En Davar” by Tal Sondak (2001):
link to youtube.com
“Words for Love” by Lior Narkis (2003):
link to youtube.com
“There Must Be Another Way” by Noa & Mira Awad (2009):
link to youtube.com
@ German Lefty,
side note:
My three favorite entries are:
1) Sharondämmerung
2) Quassam fan tuti
3) Für Corrie
@ Daniel: What?
@ German Lefty,
I thought I’d honor a couple of your c0untrymen [and try to stay on topic]
1) Sharondämmerung – Gotterdammerung – Mahler
2) Quassam fan tuti – Così fan tutte – Mozart
3) Für Corrie – Für Elise – Beethoven
Fun: 0 – Fail: 1
“I thought I’d honor a couple of your c0untrymen [and try to stay on topic]“
I knew which compositions you were alluding to. However, I couldn’t figure out how your post was meant.
Annie,
Why? I don’t care what their Nationality is. Cirque du So-Lame on Crystal Meth… Of all the vile things to put on this site. “Izabo” The best part was the cowboy camp clown visual in freeze frame. Then I pressed “Play” There should have been a warning, Annie. Come on! I just ate an hour ago, I shouldn’t be swimming in mediocrity so soon after a meal. I’m not going to give you a frame by frame analysis, I didn’t listen to the whole thing. It’s kinda like when you bite into a pastry and then pull a nasty hair out of your mouth, the appetite is lost. As far a Juliano being a “Genius” yeah, him and gumby, geniuses, misunderstood in their own time. If Izabo was influenced by Juliano…that’s no excuse. Julianos bit can be traced back to Fellini, who actually was an artist.
I like Blondie. But, a black guy in drag lip syncing is not my idea of Music or Art. Eventually, I hope I can forgive you Annie, for exposing me to this, I’d just like to put the whole thing behind me. Suffering humanity!
I hope I can forgive you Annie, for exposing me to this
please don’t sammy. and that is a talented palestinian girl/actress from jenin, not a black guy in drag.
you can watch her playing a woman dressed as a man here: (HIGHLY RECOMMENDED) link to youtube.com
and check out her little dance around 8 minutes! she’s awesome!
Annie,
My comments (predictable as always) were directed to the two vids posted here. I’m certainly not critiquing an entire body of work by an Artist or a Musician without seeing it or hearing it, that would be terribly presumptuous wouldn’t it? As much as Udi Aloni is able to creatively articulate the meaning behind the production, I prefer to find the meaning of a Theatrical/Musical work by experiencing it, unguided. I think if someone has to explain; “what it’s all supposed to represent” then the “art” is not speaking for itself.
(In my Opinion)
Ran & Izabo are brilliant, but hey, they are Israelis and so we must shriek about cultural appropriation and make some snide comments about their musical talents don’t we.
link to youtube.com
thanks for the 2007 link amir, i liked it. much more interesting than pop. this is not so bad either
link to youtube.com
this post was not about their musical ability.
juliano died just a little more than a year ago not too long after the alice video was released. it’s about the choice of style, the swings, the costumes, the setting, the theatrics.
you seem much more familiar with the band than me. maybe this is typical of their style. if so, then i will rethink my assessment.
“Ran & Izabo are brilliant”
Brilliant? No. Decent muscians, for popsters, but the singer just sounds creepy, regardless of what passport he holds.
Amir-Ras,
Everybody has taste, some have good taste, others bad taste, somethings are tasteless in their entirety. You enjoy their music, it works for you, excellent.
But you lost be after “brilliant.” Just not my flavour and my opinion has nothing to do with their Israeli heritage. The music speaks for itself and I checked out your link for another helping of Izabo…because, well, apparently I’m a glutton for punishment.
Now, as far as brilliant musicians go…Mandy Patinkin, Itzak Perlman, Sammy Davis Jr. (converted to Judaism) and their are many, many more extremely talented Musicians of Jewish heritage who have made outstanding contributions to the World of Music. As far as Izabo goes…Oy vey!
Yes let’s discuss are favorite jewish artists, this is about as pertinent as a post about Izabo’s eurovision entry on Mweiss front page. You forgot to namedrop Gerswhin.
Izabo made some fantastic rock songs (pop? have you listened to music after the 80s?) and Ran also produces and records everything hence their very unique sound and my appreciation towards their musical abilities.
Would’ve been better if they got to the final and were disqualified for Plagiarism.
Although it’s no great surprise.
Zionism stole Judaism, then Palestine, then Christianity. A pop act? Pah! Small potatoes……
Ah, forgot to mention credit for the Pentium processor.
??? Did I miss something here? Since when has Israel become part of Europe?
Apparently 2 years before Turkey did
in 1973.
Part of Turkey actually is in Europe. Israel, not so much. Except the colonialism, of course.
@ Daniel:
The Eurovision Song Contest is an annual competition held among active member countries of the European Broadcasting Union (EBU). The EBU has several non-European member countries, such as Algeria, Egypt, Morocco, Lebanon, Israel, Jordan. However, not all countries want to take part in the contest.
link to en.wikipedia.org
@ German Lefty,
thank-you note:
Danke schön. Mann ist niemals alt genug um sich das lernen mit etwas anderes zu konnen ersetzen, oder?
My German is very rusty, sorry if it doesn’t make any sense.
“Danke schön. Mann ist niemals alt genug um sich das lernen mit etwas anderes zu konnen ersetzen, oder? My German is very rusty, sorry if it doesn’t make any sense.”
Oh, don’t worry. It totally makes sense. It’s always nice to read or hear German from non-native speakers. I appreciate it very much.
@ German Lefty,
side note:
Likewise. It’s hardly ever mentioned, but I [personally] thank everyone/anyone for addressing me in ‘my’ language.
“Oh, don’t worry. It totally makes sense. It’s always nice to read or hear German from non-native speakers. I appreciate it very much.”
Mein Deutsch ist nicht sehr gut. Ich habe fur ein Jahr in der Schule gelernt. Ich bin unglaublich eifersüchtig auf Menschen, die fließend in mehreren Sprachen. (Okay, that last part was from Google Translate. My skill level is more like: “Ich heisse Woody. Ich habe mein Uhr vergessen. Der Tische ist gross. Ich habe zu viel getrunken.”)
@ Woody
Oh, I see. Looks like someone is fishing for compliments ;-) For one year, your German is pretty good. Thanks for sharing your German skills with me.
I have had 13 years of English, 7 years of French and 1 year of Spanish. I don’t remember a lot of French. There are so many words that sound the same, but are spelt differently. Really confusing. In Spanish I can only say a few things like “I want to buy 2 kilos of tomatoes.”, “There’s a tumbler missing on the table.” or “Where is the office?” (By the way, I know that was English.) I quit Spanish after one year, because the pronunciation drove me crazy. When you are used to pronounce “jardin” (garden) the French way, then it’s really hard to switch to the Spanish pronunciation. Speaking Spanish felt to me like I orally rape French words. However, Spanish sounds nice to me when it’s spoken by others. My favourite languages are Greek and Turkish. That’s why I mainly listen to Greek and Turkish songs.
I heard that in the USA pupils learn 3 languages in one subject: French, Spanish and German. Is that true?
Yesterday, I discovered this video on YouTube:
“Shit People Say… to Germans”
link to youtube.com
Then there is also this:
“American World Map”
link to youtube.com
Not fishing, exactly… It’s one year of schooling, but I have an interest in WWII history, so there is a general exposure to the language, so I pick up bits and pieces from that.
Wow, that’s a lot of language schooling. Is that common in Germany?
“I heard that in the USA pupils learn 3 languages in one subject: French, Spanish and German. Is that true?”
I’ve never heard of anything like that. I know in many US schools where there is a language requirement, the student can choose, usually, one of those three languages. Most people take Spanish. Truth be told, aside from people in areas where there are a lot of Spanish speakers, most people in the US only speak English and have little or no facility in any other language. It’s usually enough, as no other language is necessary for 99% of life in North America (maybe a bit different if you live in one of the Spanish-speaking areas or in Quebec) and because so many non-North Americans people speak it as a first or second language. But it really does put Americans at a disadvantage. (One of the reasons why I would love to see USA become officially Spanish/English bilingual and require 12 years of Spanish along with English in schools.)
Of your two videos, the first is what I would imagine Germans get when visiting the USA, and, sadly, the second is a pretty good approximation of the attitude of a lot of Americans.
“I have an interest in WWII history”
Honestly, I find it a little creepy when people are interested in war, esp. in weaponry. My friend’s brother has a WWII fetish. He’s in the army now.
“there is a general exposure to the language, so I pick up bits and pieces from that.”
I’ve already heard several people from the USA say that they only know German from WWII movies. I wonder which German words these are. The only one that comes to my mind is Blitzkrieg.
“Wow, that’s a lot of language schooling. Is that common in Germany?”
Yes. One foreign language is required for the Hauptschulabschluss and Realschulabschluss. Two foreign languages are required for the Abitur. English is the first foreign language. The second is usually French, but can also be Latin or ancient Greek. At the university, English is mandatory and I additionally chose Spanish.
“I would love to see USA become officially Spanish/English bilingual and require 12 years of Spanish along with English in schools.”
I disagree with you. I think that having two or more national languages just makes things unnecessarily complicated and also divides the nation rather than unifies it. In my opinion, the focus should be on one main language, which people should learn to speak properly. And then some years later, they should have to learn at least one further language. I mean, just look at user comments on the Internet. A lot of people aren’t even capable of speaking their one NATIVE language properly. This applies to native English as well as German speakers. A further native language would hopelessly overtax them.
“the first is what I would imagine Germans get when visiting the USA”
There is something about people from the USA that I don’t understand. Perhaps you can explain it to me. I keep hearing US citizens say stuff like “I’m Italian/German/Dutch.” when actually they are born in the USA and merely of Italian/German/Dutch descent. That’s totally inaccurate and really confusing.
“Honestly, I find it a little creepy when people are interested in war, esp. in weaponry.”
I can respect that. I disagree, obviously. My interests are less about the weapons and more about the history, the events, the personalities, etc. I wonder whether the difference is a function of your country’s history or mine (probably both.)
“I’ve already heard several people from the USA say that they only know German from WWII movies. I wonder which German words these are. The only one that comes to my mind is Blitzkrieg.”
Someone who says that would probably list: Blitzkrieg, Sieg heil, Fuehrer, Schnell, ja, nein, things like that. I think that you could probably put in “Jawohl, Herr Kommandant” if the person is old enough to have watched “Hogan’s Heroes” as a kid.
Because my interest is more academic, I’ve had a greater exposure to written German, so I picked up some language through, for example, reading propaganda posters, and even just learning what the names of things were. (For example, Geheime Staatspolitzei — there’s three words right there.)
” I think that having two or more national languages just makes things unnecessarily complicated and also divides the nation rather than unifies it. ”
Well, one of the problems in the USA is the fact that there is a large Hispanic population that is getting larger, many of them are primarily Spanish speakers. I would like for them to learn English, of course, but I also think that the English-speaking portion of the country would benefit by moving toward them, as well, in order to prevent the two groups from fracturing the society. I also think that fluency in Spanish would be wonderful. If you speak English and Spanish, you have essentially an entire hemisphere’s (except for the oddballs [I kid, I kid] in Brazil and Quebec) worth of people to relate to. That’s pretty cool, I think.
“I keep hearing US citizens say stuff like ‘I’m Italian/German/Dutch.’ when actually they are born in the USA and merely of Italian/German/Dutch descent. That’s totally inaccurate and really confusing.”
It’s because we’re an immigrant population. The ancestors of most people in the USA have only been here for two-three hundred years and with a huge percentage having no relatives at all in the US before about 100-150 years. (My earliest ancestor I know who lived in the US arrived in about 1850. Most came between 1890 and 1910.)
So, for most Americans, words like “Italian/German/Dutch” don’t refer to citizenship or nation of birth, but of ancestry or ethnicity, because we are so much more likely to be referring to someone of Italian descent, for example, than someone who was born in Italy or is a citizen and national of Italy. So the normal use of the word is to refer to ancestry; it becomes shorthand for ancestry. If American are talking about citizens or nationals of a country, they generally refer to such people as being “from Italy” or describe the people as being “real Italian,” or use some similar qualification.
@ Woody
“My interests are less about the weapons and more about the history, the events, the personalities, etc. I wonder whether the difference is a function of your country’s history or mine (probably both.)”
As far as I am concerned, I have been a pacifist for as long as I can think, already well before I learnt about my country’s history. War and weapons have always creeped me out. I reject war on principle, regardless of its outcome for my country. My opinion is this: In a war, there are no winners, only losers. Regarding World War II, I can say that there’s nothing wrong with being interested in its history. However, what I can’t stand is when World War II fetishists aren’t able or willing to distinguish between Nazi Germany and present-day Germany, and reduce Germany to a few years of its history. (I am certain that you are not such a specimen.) There’s much more to Germany than that.
“So, for most Americans, words like “Italian/German/Dutch” don’t refer to citizenship or nation of birth, but of ancestry or ethnicity, because we are so much more likely to be referring to someone of Italian descent, for example, than someone who was born in Italy or is a citizen and national of Italy.”
Okay, that makes sense. The words “of … descent” are dropped for practical reasons. However, I think that it’s important to try to express oneself as accurately as possible in order to avoid misunderstandings. Also, people from the USA seem to have a lot of national pride. Therefore, I find it all the more surprising that they voluntarily refer to themselves as Italian, German, Dutch or whatever, especially considering that it’s not true. By the way, the expression “real Italian” sounds really funny.
“I have been a pacifist for as long as I can think, already well before I learnt about my country’s history. War and weapons have always creeped me out. I reject war on principle, regardless of its outcome for my country.”
I can respect that opinion, but don’t accept it for myself, because I believe that there are times when wars should be fought. Never offensive war, and only as a last resort. But I cannot be honest with myself and reject it categorically.
“There’s much more to Germany than that.”
No doubt. My exposure to Germany began with my interest in Second World War and Cold War history, and Germany, clearly, was a very major part of that. It consequently grew into a greater interest generally in the country. I have never visited Germany and I hope to do so one day; the Germans that I have met have been very friendly people.
One of the things I am interested in learning more about is how the integration of East and West Germany has progressed over the past 20 years. From what I can gather, there are still profound differences and I wonder how that will progress in the future.
I was in my early adulthood when the Wall fell and remember it as a very exciting time. A few years ago, seeing the film “The Lives of Others”/”Das Leben der Anderen” brought back some interesting memories of those days, seeing the news reports and marvelling at the sense that history was happing right then and there. Seeing how that time was portrayed in the film, but from the “other side” was really interesting.
“Also, people from the USA seem to have a lot of national pride. Therefore, I find it all the more surprising that they voluntarily refer to themselves as Italian, German, Dutch or whatever, especially considering that it’s not true.’
I think that there are two things: civic pride, and ethnic pride. In the US, we are, on some level, aware of the fact that we are unlike a state like France or Italy or Mexico. A Frenchman or Italian or Mexican must feel (or so we believe) a feeling of pride in their country or land or state, and a related, but separate, feeling of pride in their ethnicity; their culture.
We don’t have that. We have a civic pride; we love to chant “USA, USA” and wear the red, white and blue , but there is no “USA-ian” ethnicity. So we put something else there. (Using somewhat broad stereotypes) some replace it a regional pride, like some Southerners, Californians, Texans and others; some use religion in its place, and some use ancestry.
And it may not be true, but it feels true to them. They feel a real connection with Italy and Ireland and Poland and where ever, even though it’s myth and romance, rather than any actual connection. If you visit the vacation towns along the New Jersey shoreline in the summer, you are as likely to see, depending on the town, as many Italian, Irish or Israeli flags as American ones.
“the Germans that I have met have been very friendly people.”
This somewhat surprises me. Oftentimes, people from the USA find Germans a bit cold and distant when they first meet them. Germans tend to take a little while to loosen up. Or perhaps that’s just me ;-)
“One of the things I am interested in learning more about is how the integration of East and West Germany has progressed over the past 20 years.”
Relationship status: It’s complicated. I’ve only been to the western part of Germany a few times. Most of these times, I’ve been treated like a foreigner. Once, my mother and I were at a supermarket and talked to each other about what we want to buy. Apparently, the West Germans recognised our East German dialect, because they stared at us as if we were Martians. No kidding. Another time, I was in hospital. The doctor welcomed me by saying “Hello Thuringian!” Then he told me that he had worked in Magdeburg. I was a little confused and thought to myself, “Why does he give me this unrelated information? Magdeburg is not in Thuringia. It’s the capital of Saxony-Anhalt.” Then I realised that the doctor intended to express that he had worked in “the East”. You know, as if “the East” was still a different country. There are also some other stories, but I spare you the more unpleasant incidents.
“seeing the film “The Lives of Others” brought back some interesting memories of those days. Seeing how that time was portrayed in the film, but from the “other side” was really interesting.”
I haven’t watched “Das Leben der Anderen” yet, because I don’t like films about the GDR. The GDR is usually portrayed in a stereotyped way and the everyday life appears gloomy and bleak. Also, I find this particular film title pretty insulting. Being called “the others” sounds as if we were aliens, outsiders or somehow less German than West Germans. As far as I am concerned, there were two equal German states. East Germany was just as German as West Germany. Marginalising East Germans by referring to us as “the others” is offensive.
“I think that there are two things: civic pride, and ethnic pride.”
A while ago, I thought about the feeling of national pride and came to the conclusion that there are two kinds of pride: (1) being proud to be a German and (2) being proud of Germany. I reject the first kind of pride, because I think that the feeling of pride requires a certain accomplishment. I was born a German. Therefore, my ethnicity/nationality is pure coincidence. And being proud of a coincidence would be totally moronic. However, it is justifiable to be proud of Germany, because there have been some political achievements, e.g. the decision for the nuclear power phase-out. I am sure that other Germans feel similar to me. There is still a reluctance by Germans to wave the German flag. That’s probably because this gesture can be misunderstood. Passersby can’t know WHICH kind of pride you want to demonstrate. And nobody in their right mind wants to be mistaken for an ethnic nationalist. However, you’ll see many Germany flags when there are international sport events. I think that’s because on such occasions the meaning is clear, which is “I am interested in this sport event and support the German team.” A further aspect is that I, as an East German, don’t feel that much connection to the West German flag anyway. I rather identify with the Thuringia flag and the GDR flag.
link to de.wikipedia.org
link to de.wikipedia.org
“They feel a real connection with Italy and Ireland and Poland and where ever, even though it’s myth and romance, rather than any actual connection.”
I once watched a docusoap about German expats. One family moved to Texas. There, they attended a “German fest”. You got free admission if you “dressed like a German” (i.e. Bavarian-style). Anyway, a lot of visitors proudly told the German family that they are of German descent and like the German culture. However, they actually had no clue about Germany and mistook German stereotypes for German culture.
“Oftentimes, people from the USA find Germans a bit cold and distant when they first meet them.”
I can understand that, but I did not expect them to be anything but “friendly yet reserved” so my expectations weren’t dashed.
“Relationship status: It’s complicated.”
I would have thought that the problems would have been more economic, but I guess when you are talking about 50 years of separate developement, especailly ones so markedly different as those two states, it does make sense that there would be other issues, as well. I can only imagine what my reaction would be if, for example, the Old South in the US and the rest of the coutnry were separate countries divided for half a century, under different systems. I might well tell someone from Alabama about the time I visited Atlanta!
“I haven’t watched “Das Leben der Anderen” yet, because I don’t like films about the GDR. ”
I think it is worth seeing. They obviously didn’t portray life as being a bowl of cherries, given the subject matter involved, but I certainly did not get the impression that it was designed as an insult to East Germans. In fact, the “Others” in the title, I believe, is more a reference to the characters in the film (East Germans) who are being observed by the Stasi agent.
It was clearly opposed to the SED, the Stasi, and the communist system as it existed at that time, but did not portray the East German people as anything other than genuine people.
“There is still a reluctance by Germans to wave the German flag. That’s probably because this gesture can be misunderstood.”
I think the fact that the flag is the black-red-gold and not any of the black-white-red flags was a key change. I think those who see people waiving the German flag as being ethnic nationalists are people who harbor unspoken prejudices themselves, especially when you’re talking about, for example, 20- and 30-year olds at a soccer match.
” A further aspect is that I, as an East German, don’t feel that much connection to the West German flag anyway. ”
Interesting. Even after two decades. How common is that? I understand that there is a bit of “Ostalgie”: nostaligia for the GDR days. How serious is it? Is it a yearning for familiar things or a desire to return to that government/economic system? It seems to be a rejection of unpleasant parts of modern life and the insecurities that accompany it.
“they actually had no clue about Germany and mistook German stereotypes for German culture.”
Sadly, that’s pretty much par for the course for Americans. The stereotype is either (1) a Nazi, (2) someone wearing Lederhosen or (3) military men wearing Pickelhauben with Wilhelm II-style moustaches. To Americans, “German culture” consists primarily of references to beer, Oktoberfest, VW, Mercedes-Benz and BMW, meats ending in -wurst, saurkraut and the Berlin Wall. (Particularly clueless people might mention Wiener Schnitzel and Arnold Schwarzenegger…)
I did not expect them to be anything but “friendly yet reserved” so my expectations weren’t dashed.
If you expected Germans to be reserved, then you had realistic expectations. However, less aware foreigners tend to mistake our reserve for indifference or unfriendliness.
I would have thought that the problems would have been more economic
Right, there are economic differences between east and west, too. However, there is also a north-south divide in terms of economy, but it’s not this big.
I might well tell someone from Alabama about the time I visited Atlanta!
I see. So, you side with the doctor!? Well, there is more to the story than what I told you. The doctor wasn’t born in West Germany. He comes from Afghanistan and moved to Germany AFTER the reunification. Therefore, I really didn’t expect him to distinguish between East and West Germany. Also, I find it twice as weird to be treated LIKE a foreigner by an ACTUAL foreigner. I don’t think that his comment was ill-intentioned, but I still perceived it as insult. However, native West Germans say even worse things.
In fact, the “Others” in the title, I believe, is more a reference to the characters in the film (East Germans) who are being observed by the Stasi agent.
Okay, I understand that it’s unfair to bash a film that I haven’t watched yet. When I complained about GDR-themed films, I mainly thought of “Good Bye, Lenin!” and “Sonnenallee”. Then there was also a short-lived TV series about the GDR. I don’t remember the title.
link to en.wikipedia.org!
link to en.wikipedia.org
I think those who see people waiving the German flag as being ethnic nationalists are people who harbor unspoken prejudices themselves
It depends. Do you refer to foreigners or to other Germans? Here is an example of what Germans have to deal with: During the 2010 FIFA World Cup an American woman living in Germany tweeted this: “The Germans have gone crazy. Hanging German flags out their windows, on their cars, screaming ‘Deutschland’ – do we have to be afraid again?” Such insensitive comments are really hurtful and also unfair. On the one hand, foreigners wonder why Germans are rather reluctant to wave the German flag. On the other hand, when we actually have the courage to do it, we immediately get stupid comments regarding German history. So, what are we supposed to do?
Also, you have to consider that there is not that much unity among Germans. We have a lot of rivalry: north-sounth, east-west, people of different federal states, fans of different German soccer teams. Therefore, Germans don’t necessarily identify as Germans when they are in Germany, because this isn’t precise enough. We rather use flags of federal states or soccer clubs. We only identify as Germans in an international context, e.g. when we visit a foreign country or when we talk to a foreign tourist in Germany. I’m heavily generalising, of course.
Even after two decades. I understand that there is a bit of “Ostalgie”. Is it a yearning for familiar things or a desire to return to that government/economic system? It seems to be a rejection of unpleasant parts of modern life and the insecurities that accompany it.
Well, I was born in East Germany. Therefore, it will always be my home country and I will always feel a strong emotional connection to it and its flag, not matter how much time has elapsed. (I wonder how the people feel who were born in Nazi Germany.) I was very little when the Berlin Wall came down and hence don’t remember how life was in the GDR. I mainly know about it from documentaries and the stories my parents told me. As my parents were “good citizens”, they couldn’t tell me any scary stories about the Stasi. (In case you wonder: No, they weren’t members, but my much older cousin was.) If my family had made any terrible experiences with the GDR regime, my feelings toward the GDR would certainly be very different.
I grew up in a newly reunified Germany experiencing all the negative prejudices that West Germans had (and still have) against East Germans. They think that we are uneducated, naive, backward, lazy, unemployed neo-Nazis. Right after the reunification, West German salesmen saw a new market in East Germany. They travelled here to sell their stuff directly to the people. East Germans were good-natured, trusting, and also pretty inexperienced with “western goods”. West German salesmen took advantage of this situation and charged high prices for low-quality products. These negative incidents made East Germans suspicious of West Germans. Also, I told you that West Germans still treat us like foreigners. Because of all these things, you shouldn’t be surprised that I don’t feel such a strong emotional connection to the West German flag. Besides, I would have liked it if a new flag and a new anthem had been created for the unified Germany in order to mark the beginning of a new era and to leave the division behind.
Despite the above-mentioned things, no East German in their right mind would want to have the GDR back, because all in all the negative things clearly outweigh the positive things. No country is entirely good or bad. I think that the “Ostalgie” is indeed a yearning for those familiar things that were good. Also, you have to consider that the lack of freedom lead to more security. You knew what to expect from others and what was expected from you. The state had a plan for virtually everything (except for its own end). This security is gone.
My mother once told me this: In GDR times, there were three (or so) different kinds of bedroom furniture. People didn’t really have a choice. They just bought the one kind that was currently available and paid a nationwide uniform price for it. My parents ordered their bedroom furniture without even knowing how it looks. And they were incredibly happy about it, because they got bedroom furniture at all. Nowadays, the variety of furniture and other goods is so overwhelming that some East Germans perceive it as burden. At first, you need to determine which features you want your product to have. Then you need to decide which exact product you want to buy. Next, you need to find a shop that offers your chosen product for a low price. And when you finally get your chosen product, you are still not happy about it, because it’s not totally perfect. That’s why my mother says that although people didn’t have so many things in the GDR, they were happier about the things they had. There was less competition and less consumer stress. Life was (perceived as) less hectic and less determined by material things. Nowadays, we have “Konsumterror”.
As great as it is to have many choices and much freedom, sometimes it’s just too much. You have certainly already eaten at a Subway restaurant. The person behind the counter asks you what feels like a zillion questions about your sandwich-to-be and you get impatient and are tempted to shout, “It’s just a f*cking sandwich. Don’t make it so complicated. Shut up and hurry up. I’m hungry.”
“Although geographically not in Europe, Israel is within the European Broadcasting Area and can thus participate in the Eurovision Song Contest. The boundaries of the European Broadcasting Area have their origin in the regions served and linked by telegraphy cables in the 19th and early 20th centuries. ”
Funny: Iraq, Jordan and Syria fall into the EBA too.
Ah, I look forward to it every year: The busty chick saying “Shalom, this is Jerusalem calling, the eternal capital of the Jewish state.” This year no doubt followed by “La Turquie zero points, Chypre, douze points”
(Oh, and by the way, I had goosebumps way back in highschool when I heard Ofra Haza sing “Am Israel chai” in Germany, so I guess my inborn European anti-Semitism was repressed at the time.)
@ Elizabeth,
Stop being so ridiculously funny! I hurt all over, thank you very much.
link to youtube.com
elizabeth’s goosepimples
i can’t really recall what music was hot in 1983, i was more into rickilee jones and aretha at the time.
It was more the words and the place where it was sung than the actual song itself, Annie
… the drummer’s face at 01:41 on the ‘time’ video says it all
Not sure if this is of interest to you, but I’ll post it anyway:
Yesterday was the 2nd semi-final and the singer who represents Turkey belongs to the Jewish minority in Turkey. Can Bonomo was born in Izmir, Turkey to a Sephardic Jewish family.
link to en.wikipedia.org
link to jta.org
“Love Me Back” by Can Bonomo
link to youtube.com
Can Bonomo made it to the final on Saturday. I wonder how many points he will get from Israel.
Eurovision final: German entry
“Standing Still” by Roman Lob
link to youtube.com
whoa GL, check this out
link to newsinenglish.no
ouch. looks like norway got bruised. and it doesn’t sound like iranians are not too welcome in Azerbaijan, even if they are norwegian.
quick edit, Roman Lob is cute w/singing chops, he’s got a future.
Annie, it looks like you got infected with the Eurovision virus. Great. The more fans, the better.
The story about the Norwegians is really sad, but certainly not an isolated case. Azerbaijan isn’t exactly a paragon of democracy. I wonder what the politically correct term is. Democratically challenged? In the run-up to the Eurovision Song Contest, there were discussions about whether the German media and German viewers should boycott this year’s contest or rather use it as opportunity to draw international attention to the host country’s lack of democracy. Germany opted for the latter. By the way, did you know that the ESC also airs on Australian TV?
Democracy Index: link to en.wikipedia.org
Besides, Azerbaijan’s society has pretty old-fashioned views. Extramarital sex and homosexuality are taboo. A woman is expected to enter into marriage shortly after attaining majority and as virgin. A German journalist reported that when she walked around in Baku alone, wearing a dress and lipstick, she was verbally sexually harassed every 50 meters or so. Men stared at her, hit on her and made explicit proposals. One guy even offered her to become his second wife.
Different topic: As non-native speaker I find Urban Dictionary a great convenience and frequent it often. On Friday, I discovered that the site lacks the definitions of the terms “hasbara” and “PEP”. So, I tried to add them. Until now, my entries haven’t been approved yet. I don’t want to sound paranoid, but I wonder if there’s some kind of censorship in this respect. When you want to look up “hasbara”, you are referred to the term “Palsbara”, which is defined as “Propaganda spread by ‘pro-Palestinian’ and anti-Israel activists who seek to convince gullible people to their side.” Also, one can’t find an I/P-related definition of “PEP” or “pinkwashing”. It’s hard to believe that nobody has tried to add this yet.
GL, urban dictionary has PEP, just no explanation of progressive except for palestine.
link to urbandictionary.com
I know. That’s why I wrote that there’s no “I/P-related definition of PEP”.