African migrants stand in the remains of a
firebombed kindergarden April 2010. (Photo: ActiveStills)
The Netanyahu government will impose fines on mayors who hire migrant workers, pushing a slight tactical difference between him and the mob-riling Knesset members responsible for the violent attacks earlier this week. Whereas rightist MK incited a riot, Netanyahu is looking to legislate non-Jewish immigrants out of the country. Interior Minister Eli Yishai announced the city officials would "personally" pay the penalties, an equivalent punishment for crimes such embezzlement.
"We will also start to enforce this so that they do not employ infiltrators. They will employ Israelis instead, the place of infiltrators is in the countries that they came from," said Yishai speaking to Israeli News Channel 2.
After the government's announcement the city of Tel Aviv fired back to Haaretz, using the same rightist patois to describe migrants.
'The municipality does not employ illegal infiltrators and has even approached contracting companies it works with to request they act according to the law, and not employ infiltrators.'
Separately, Netanyahu also distanced himself from the mob-like fiasco incensed by members of his political party, but re-affirmed their anti-migrant sentiment in an announcement yesterday. Speaking in Tel Aviv, the prime minister said "We will complete construction of the fence within two months, and soon we will begin sending infiltrators back to their countries of origin."
“the place of infiltrators is in the countries that they came from,” said Yishai speaking ”
In a move that surprised observers he continued by saying that for consistency this also applies to all Israeli and New york Jews who have moved to the West Bank to live in Jew only settlements and that the last 45 years have been a mistake that Israel will never be able to adequately apologise for.
Note to editors- Yishai’s father came from Yemen and in line with the observation the whole family will shortly be moving back to that country. Ariel Sharon will be moved to a vegetable patch in Poland.
What has Poland done to deserve that level of soil contamination?
Sharon, whatever legacy he (de)merits, was born in Palestine.
“Sharon, whatever legacy he (de)merits, was born in Palestine.”
Of Lithuanians who, along with their evil son, participated in the zionist theft of Palestine from the Palestinians. He should be buried in Lithuania or just dumped into the sea somewhere.
“was born in Palestine.” and so what? is that an achievement or something what does being born in Palestine have to do with anything? you are so slippery you an only work through innuendo, you need to flesh that out bit and nice touch with the history is yet to decide on his legacy?
what good did being born in Palestine do for the 800,000, what did being in Palestine do for the 531 villages, sharon born in the Palestine he so actively destroyed gets some credit? and any one whose battle honours include qibya and kafr kassem well let history be the judge, oh well of course murderous brutality is natural in the middle east, where racists go to pose as injured liberals.
>> tokyobk: Sharon, whatever legacy he (de)merits, was born in Palestine.
>> Wiki: Sharon was born in 1928 in Kfar Malal, then in the British Mandate of Palestine …
>> WT: Of Lithuanians who, along with their evil son, participated in the zionist theft of Palestine from the Palestinians. He should be buried in Lithuania or just dumped into the sea somewhere.
Sharon deserves/d to be tried as a (war) criminal and to have his “legacy” bear the stains of his crimes.
But IMO he also deserves to be buried near his birthplace.
So fleeing pogroms and buying land to start a farm collective is “land theft” because?
I guess you have your 1967 people and then your 1948 people and then there are your super purists; the 1916′ers.
He was born in Palestine and therefore assuming he is more naturally buried in “a vegetable patch in Poland” evokes the notion that Jews as Jews don;t belong naturally in Palestine.
Its an important point -especially- if you believe in a one state future.
Gamal,
please follow the thread from the beginning.
I have no love for Sharon and being born in Palestine gives him no merit other than making the idea he should be buried “in a vegetable patch in Poland” a Helen Thomas-like absurdity, though a revealing one.
“the notion that Jews as Jews don;t belong naturally in Palestine”.
the fact is they didn’t. Antisemitism was a European curse.
However they have been in the region for 3 generations.
So they have to work out terms with the locals.
But it isn’t going very well, is it?
“So fleeing pogroms and buying land to start a farm collective is “land theft” because?”
Were they operating under a law, put in place by the Native Palestinians, to govern their own land and their own society? Or where they taking advantage of the then-current foreign control of Palestine which stripped self-governance from the Palestinian people? If they weren’t present at the express request and with the express approval of the Palestinians themselves — if they had come to build a foreign polity on someone else’s land — they had no business being there.
Helen Thomas wasn’t absurd. You are
If Jews belonged in Palestine ‘naturally’ they wouldn’t need the 4th most powerful army in the world. Zionism continues to be forced.
.
Are you actually saying that historically Jews did not live in Palestine?
The Jews of Hebron have been in the region for 3 generations?
You are kidding, right?
The Ottomans kept pretty good record of demographics. Jews were something like 3 – 5% conservatively from the 1500s and in the mid nineteenth century up to 7%.
But even if it was 100 Jews. What is unnatural about it? Why would a Jew born there be an interloper who more naturally belongs in Poland? This is the basis of a one state solution. Why are Sharon’s parents land thieves for buying part of a collective in 1916?
There has never not been both a presence of Jews, immigration and touring.
Jewish cemeteries show this.
Continued Jewish presence in Palestine especially Jerusalem and “holy cities” is no brief for political Zionism — that is a small historic minority taking over. To deny the record however, is definitely creepy and probably racist, as is to deny that people belong in the places they were born (even Sharon) — after all this is the basis of anti-Zionism.
@tokyobk: Nope, “Israel” was not founded by peaceful immigrants seeking refuge & escape from the Pogroms of Europe; it was founded by angry, racist terrorists committed to ethnically cleanse Palestine from its native inhabitants by all means preferably by military means & cold blooded murder.
That is ahistorical.
I am talking specifically about Sharon’s parents.
In 1916 there were Jews who acquired land legally, as they did, though it could be argued that the Ottoman claim was not valid.
Amazing you will admit this is how you feel.
It strips you of any pretense of morality or objectivity.
The PLO recognized Jews living in Palestine as Palestinian in 1968 but you don’t!
Why are Sharon’s parents land thieves for buying part of a collective in 1916?
by 48 there was something like 6-7% of the land purchased in this way. certainly in 1916 it is much less. is there a reason you want to focus on the people who purchased the 6-7% rather than the other 95% of the land that was stolen?
Seafoid,
You are admitting some pretty rank thoughts quite freely. Thanks I guess for your honesty, though.
So I have this right -Jews- don’t belong in Palestine? and that is why -Jews- need an army? What a terribly bigoted idea and low opinion of Palestinians, who mostly argue that relations between Jews Muslims and Christians was fairly tolerant before Israel. (meaning that, uh, there actually were Jews there). Bibi agrees with you by the way as to the need for IDF might.
I am absurd for saying that Jews who have lived in and were born in Palestine are naturally Palestinian? I actually didn’t even mention Israelis who came in the 20th century from Europe, btw.
The Shulchan Aruch, a major Jewish text, was written in Safed in the 1560′s Maimonides visited Jews in Hebron in the late 1100′s. Do you dispute these, or the Ottoman demographics as historical facts or has the Mossad infiltrated books written over the last few hundred years on the subject?
Jews have always been there and have every right to be there as equals no more no less. This position is in line, thankfully, with the stated position of every major Palestinian civil society writer, and I imagine the purveyors of this and any other normative site.
Yes, Annie, there is a reason in this thread if you would please read through it. I have no interest in excusing land theft or justifying political Zionism.
The remark that Sharon should be buried in Poland prompted me to say whatever he was he was born in Palestine.
When it was mentioned that he was evil and his parents were land thieves I asked why the establishment of their collective in 1916 was land theft.
All of it was to the point that Jews simply as Jews are not interlopers in Palestine. The basis of a one state solution will be disregarding faith, no?
Now that I have answered you, do you agree with Seafoid’s responses, in particular this one:
“Helen Thomas wasn’t absurd. You are
If Jews belonged in Palestine ‘naturally’ they wouldn’t need the 4th most powerful army in the world. Zionism continues to be forced.”
The founders of Kfar Malal in 1916 were part of a movement that went back to the middle of the 19th century and purchased their land.
Without a doubt their children fought in 1948 and expanded Israel.
PS I have never and would not defend Sharon or his attitude towards Palestinians. In fact, I read his bio a long time ago and was pretty horrified.
To say he should be buried in Poland a country he has nothing to do with is sophomoric and ignorant and implies a racist concept Jews. Its kind of like saying Palestinains should “go back to” Arabia. Ignorance in supposed service of ideology.
“…though it could be argued that the Ottoman claim was not valid.”
Now you’re starting to get it. Did you ever wonder why Jews today are able to recover paintings from the 1930s and 1940s even though the Nazis acquired them “legally” and the subsequent purchasers bought them for good money? Because one who does not have good title cannot pass good title.
The Ottomans did not have good title to Palestine.
Woody –
Yes, that is a historical argument and a legitimate inquiry. What was the claim on Palestine of the Ottomans, did the founders of that particular collective have the right to buy it, who had been farming it before if anyone.
Quite a step up from “land thieves” caricature though. Sharon’s parents were fleeing pogroms and they purchased land they thought was legitimately for sale in a part of the world where Jews had always lived, visited, prayed over, dreamed about etc…
And by the way, there was great debate in that generation about relations with -other- Palestinians, since the Muslims, Jews and Christians were all Palestinians.
bk, Jews- don’t belong in Palestine?
to be frank, i don’t think zionists belong there. if individual jews comes to palestine the way many did, out of some religious calling or lived there the way many did for centuries along with all the others then i have no problem with this, for i do not believe land is racist.
but i do not think there is a valid claim for a political movement to exist on land divorced and against the indigenous people. it is difficult to rationalize or except the idea of a political stance that requires ethnic cleansing. so i would advocate zionists go somewhere else. but i don’t think anyone should have to leave the land if they believe in equal rights freedom and equality for all. i don’t care if they are chinese.
as for sharon, he is a war criminal so i do not recognize his rights..i would be more inclined to side with the families of victims of his crimes. why should they have to live for generations with his corpse buried on their land? drop him off in the middle of the sea why don’t you, along with binny. nobody concerned themselves with burying him where he was born. i don’t care how his parents got to palestine, or why (as i pertains to his burial).
Woody,
So do you agree with Seafoid about Jews not being natural to Palestine?
And, yes of course I understand about recovery and reparations.
I think expulsions are wrong in every case and that the right of return must be dealt with in some way by Israel and also by the Arab countries that expelled Jews.
Annie,
“to be frank, i don’t think zionists belong there. if individual jew comes to palestine the way many did, out of some religious calling or lived there the way many did for centuries along with all the others then they belong there i have no problem with this, for i do not believe land is racist.”
Yes, land is not racist. Amen. My basic point from the beginning of this thread. And on your words I now leave to go look out over Long Island Sound.
Annie,
I would just say the Jews of Palestine were also indigenous, no more or less transient than other groups coming in and out of that land — to be sure a small minority.
So no, this does not justify political Zionism, but it is a different (though I think very important nuance) to your narrative.
Regards,
Were they operating under a law, put in place by the Native Palestinians, to govern their own land and their own society? Or where they taking advantage of the then-current foreign control of Palestine which stripped self-governance from the Palestinian people?
Neither, even Rothschild had to use a Turkish citizen, like Efraim Krause, as an agent to make the land purchases and registrations. Foreign ownership by the National Fund or the Palestine Land Development Company and foreign colonization by their societies were practices that violated the law. That’s why the Ottoman officials refused to register the land they obtained in the valley of Jezreel.
Jews of Palestine were also indigenous
yeah, they were. and i never implied otherwise, or meant to. the jewish zionist colonialists however, weren’t.
Sure there were Jews in Palestine. Maybe 5% of the population. There are thousands of Jews in North London too. But that doesn’t mean North London is “Jewish land”. The reality is that the “Jewish state” would never have happened without the use of force, tokyobk.
The fact that a language had to be created for the Altneuland says it all for me. What language did the Jews of Safed and Hebron speak at home in 1865 ?
Jewish history didn’t tend to happen in Palestine because the vast majority of Jews lived elsewhere. However this is easy to overcome if you regard history as anything that happened pre CE 70 and post CE 1948.
Zionism was wrong and it has become a deluded ideology. European antisemitism was the real winner.
“So fleeing pogroms and buying land to start a farm collective is “land theft” because?”
Yeah, pretty much. Or at least that is how my (Jewish) history professor described the Pilgrims and every other white goy settler here in America. He said they came to America not to live as Indians, but to set up their own shadow government and to rule their expanding communities. He said the Pilgrims established a beachhead directed explicitly to creating a parallel (i.e. non-native) government/schools/industries/culture of race-pure whites. You know, pretty much what the yekkes set out to do in Palestine about 100 years ago.
I figure what’s good for the goose (white goyim in America) is good for the gander (Jews) . I know that is not halachic, of course, since God established different laws for Jews that for the goyim.
“Quite a step up from ‘land thieves’ caricature though.”
I disagree. There was no question, even then, that the zionist project was one which aimed at the takeover of the land from its inhabitants, without their agreement. The fact that they were fleeing a pogrom (if they were), and the fact that the area figured in Jewish religious books are irrelevant. If the native Palestinians welcomed them, that would be one thing. They burst down the door and pretended that there was nothing wrong in that.
“So do you agree with Seafoid about Jews not being natural to Palestine?”
It depends on how you define “Jews” and “natural.” An individual Jew whose ancestors lived there continuously for generation after generation is certainly natural to Palestine. Other Jews whose ancestors had been living for generations in Europe and who planned on erasing the then-current polity and replacing it with a European colonial state? No, not natural. The fact that their prayer books talk about this land is irrelevant and, frankly, it is disgusting that someone would place something as inconsequential as ancient fairy stories above the rights of present-day flesh-and-blood people.
“And, yes of course I understand about recovery and reparations.”
That’s the real rub, because every Jew who’s artwork is returned is a case for the return of the land of Palestine to the native Palestinians, or payment for the value of it, plus interest, plus consequential damages.
“I think expulsions are wrong in every case and that the right of return must be dealt with in some way by Israel and also by the Arab countries that expelled Jews.”
I am on record as saying that every Jew who was expelled from an Arab country (excluding, of course, those who volunteered to leave in order to take part in the zionist project) should have the right to compensation for his losses. However, it is important to recognize that the rights of the Palestians exist independant of the rights of the Jews and any difficulty the Jews have in obtaining compensation for their losses is irrelevant to the fact that the Israelis owe the Palestinians who they have injured throught the decades.
The reason I say that is because often the question of Jews being owed compensation from Arab countries is brought up in bad faith by Zionsists as a way of either (1) arguing that the two sets of debts somehow “cancel out” the Israelis debts (a false and frankly racist notion) or (2) asserting that the Palestinians can seek their compensation after the Jews get compensation, again an attempt, in a clearly racist fashion, to excuse the debts the Israelis owe.
I can’t imagine Ukraine getting away with fining any company that employs Jews.
“We will complete construction of the fence”
The appropriate Zionist response .
Is your wife getting uppity? Build a fence.
Has your football team lost? Build a fence.
I can’t imagine Ukraine getting away with fining any company that employs Jews.
Introductory note
by the Office of the
United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
(UNHCR)
The Convention further stipulates that, subject to specific exceptions, refugees should not be penalized for their illegal entry or stay. This recognizes that the seeking of asylum can require refugees to breach immigration rules. Prohibited penalties might include being charged with immigration or criminal offences relating to the seeking of asylum, or being arbitrarily detained purely on the basis of seeking asylum. Importantly, the Convention contains various safeguards against the expulsion of refugees. The principle of non-refoulement is so fundamental that no reservations or derogations may be made to it. It provides that no one shall expel or return (“refouler”) a refugee against his or her will, in any manner whatsoever, to a territory where he or she fears threats to life or freedom.
…
Chapter III : Gainful Employment
Article 17
wage-earning employment
1. The Contracting State shall accord to refugees lawfully staying in their territory the most favourable treatment accorded to nationals of a foreign country in the same circumstances, as regards the right to engage in wage earning employment. –Text of the 1951 Refugee Convention and 1967 Protocol
RE: “We will also start to enforce this so that they do not employ infiltrators. They will employ Israelis instead, the place of infiltrators is in the countries that they came from,” said Yishai. . .
SOFTLY SPOKEN IN THE STYLE OF MR. ROGERS’ NEIGHBORHOOD: “Can you say apartheid? Sure you can!”
SEE: Immigrants and Birth Certificates, by Christopher Brauchli, Common Dreams, 5/26/12
ENTIRE COMMENTARY – link to commondreams.org
* MIGHT THIS HAVE BEEN THE WORK OF DAVID YERUSHALMI?
SEE: “David Yerushalmi, Islam-Hating White Supremacist Inspires Anti-Sharia Bills Sweeping Tea Party Nation”, by Richard Silverstein, Tikun Olam, 3/02/11
LINK – link to richardsilverstein.com
ALSO: “Prominent Islamophobes Identified As ‘Heading Up The Radical Right’”, by Eli Clifton, Think Progress, 5/24/12
LINK – link to thinkprogress.org
And the bullies will do the rest during recess.
There are crazies in the world, and then there are bat***crazies.
Israel firster Zionists are playing a dangerous game by showing off their Jewish supremecy prejudice in such a brazen way. They are effectively vilifying black Africans, Muslims, Christians in Jerusalem…I can’t think of a better way to make Israel less appealing to the world than to make 3/5ths of the world’s population unwelcome in, and unworthy of the Jewish state.
Zionist’s are playing a dangerous game with their openly brazen campaign to villify Muslims, Christians in Jerusalem and imigrants from Africa, Asia and elswhere. I can’t think of a better way to make Israel less appealing to the world than to make 3/5ths of its population unwelcome in and unworthy of the Jewish state.
Making it law not to hire “illegal migrant workers”? This is an outrage! AND putting up fences, or walls, to establish borders AND keep people out, keep them from obtaining employment? What kind of Government would do that?
Certainly, the United States would not employ these tactics to keep illegal migrant workers from Mexico from obtaining gainful employment in the U.S., regardless of citizenship! The U.S. would not employ border guards or levy fines for hiring illegal workers or even talk about building “a big wall” to keep people out. Certainly not! That is something the Chinese would do but the United States? NEVER! The U.S. would not do what China did. They would just borrow {scad-zillions} of dollars from them to bail out failed private corporations, cause the CEO and all “them” shareholders? They are “legal immigrants” aren’t they?
{scad-zillions} is a reasonable term to describe an unreasonable amount of debt. It is not a precise term nor need it be. Scad-zillions is beyond the comprehension of any reasonable human being. (SOURCE: Not Wikipedia)
Certainly, the United States would not employ these tactics to keep illegal migrant workers from Mexico from obtaining gainful employment in the U.S.,
My best friends growing up in Kansas were named Vierya, Jasso, Delgado, Rodriguez, and Reulas. Every time some dumb son of a bitch politician opens his mouth and spews racist fear mongering crap about the “Mexicans”, they can forget about getting elected in the district where I live.
BTW, people who have to live in a country where drug war deaths over five years total 50,000 – thanks in small part to the ATF’s Fast and Furious gun trafficking scandal – just might be legitimate refugees.
P.S. the government scaled back its fence project and in places it’s just a picket fence:
The law instructed the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to secure about one-third of the 1,950-mile border between US and Mexico with 700 miles of double-layered fencing – and additionally through cameras, motion sensors, and other types of barriers – by the end of the year to stem illegal immigration.
…
The DHS scaled back its ambitions early on, trimming its end-of-2008 target down to 300 miles of vehicle barrier and 370 miles of pedestrian barrier.
As of February, 302 miles of barrier have been constructed mostly on federal land in Arizona, New Mexico, and California, and slightly over half of this has been built under the new law.
Just $200 million will have been spent by June, according to Lloyd Easterling, the border patrol public information officer.
Only a fraction of the new barriers resemble anything like the images of formidable fencing – the Berlin Wall or the bleak monolith that divides Israel and the West Bank – envisioned by the initial proposal. Most of the new fencing is not a double wall, but a combination of regular vehicle blocks and pedestrian barriers that range from metal mesh and chain link to traditional picket fences. link to csmonitor.com
Apropos the ‘fence’ along the Mexico-U.S. border, is an Israeli contractor still the proposed builder or did the U.S. government give the contract to someone else?
is an Israeli contractor still the proposed builder or did the U.S. government give the contract to someone else?
The Government scrapped the idea after they wasted a billion on 53 miles of fence built by Boeing. link to reuters.com
On the issue of other nations betraying the refugee conventions they signed up to voluntarily I agree with you, I live in Australia and our record for the last 20 years has been repugnant and deeply shameful to many of us. HOWEVER even our most rancidly racist politicians would not have gotten away with the vile crap that certain Knesset members have been spewing over this issue and we’ve yet to see violent mobs terrorizing women who are holding their children.
The sort of virulent outward racism that is par for the course for many in Israeli public life just isn’t tolerated in nations that actually ARE liberal democracies.
“the place of infiltrators is in the countries that they came from,”
Will Avigdor Lieberman and millions of other European and American born infiltrators be packing their bags soon?
Do the children of “infiltrators”, like Bibi Netanyahu, have to leave as well?
or can somebody say when it was that the state of Israel outlawed irony?
“or can somebody say when it was that the state of Israel outlawed irony?”
Fascist and totalitarian states have always had a problem with irony. Why should the judeo-fascists be any different?
>> Speaking in Tel Aviv, the prime minister said “We will complete construction of the fence within two months, and soon we will begin sending infiltrators back to their countries of origin.”
I’m surprised Bibi didn’t also threaten to “cut off their hands!”
>> Regev, who said during the rally that “the Sudanese are a cancer in our body,” told Haaretz …
Classy.
Regev appears not to know that “hatred of foreigners contradicts the foundations of Judaism”…according to President Shimon Peres, anyway.
I wonder: Was Peres saying that hatred of foreigners contradicts the foundations of :
- Judaism, the nationality (which, according to playforpalestine, “has a religion attached to it”); or
- Judaism, the religion itself?
Apparently, the proposition that hatred of foreigners contradicts the foundations of Judaism, and the counter-proposition, that it is an integral part of that foundation, is hotly disputed, and this is quite good reference:
link to jeremiahhaber.com
I stumbled upon that issue when I read comments in JPost and Simeon and Levy’s conduct in Genesis 34 was used both by opponents of settlers conduct and by the defenders. My extra comment is that it is by no means clear that the massacre was precipitated by a rape as we understand the word:
“And when Shechem the son of Hamor the Hivite, prince of the country, saw her [Dinah, daughter of Jacob], he took her and lay with her, and violated her. His soul was strongly attracted to Dinah the daughter of Jacob, and he loved the young woman and spoke kindly to the young woman.”
Later Dinah wanted to marry Shechem, so the “violation” was a case of sexual contact without permission of the father and brothers.
Haha: Making it law not to hire “illegal migrant workers”? This is an outrage! AND putting up fences, or walls, to establish borders AND keep people out, keep them from obtaining employment? What kind of Government would do that?
A. Government makes no laws, but regulations, but in this particular instance it is an empty talk of one minister.
B. Refugees are not like “illegal migrant workers”. If at this moment Guatemala has no repressive regime and/or death squads, there is no big problem in returning Guatemalan undocumented workers to Guatemala. But there was a problem when our Guatemalan allies practiced genocide of “their own people”. Situation in South Sudan is still chaotic, but with some preparation and international cooperation, return of refugees to South Sudan will commence. Eritrea seems to approximate North Korea, so return of refugees to Eritrea is no possible, unless Israel will make more modifications to its laws and policies than we currently imagine possible.
C. Because Israeli authorities cannot determine easily that refugees are not refugees, they prefer to keep their status in limbo. So a municipality may offer them some make-work program that would, say, remove thrash from parks, beaches and various neighborhood and improve public order (the recommendation of police, after all). And idiot Yishai is against it, on the account of profound idiocy which he richly documented by commenting on a variety of topics.
D. Building fences can be futile under the current conditions. Mind you, this is not a border through some dense forest, and IDF already has capability of observing and intercepting all individuals attempting to cross it. (If IDF does not do it, it is something very wrong there, shouldn’t they re-assign some units that currently harass villagers in Area C or beat bicyclists?) If the “infiltrators” are intercepted after scaling the fence, their status is exactly the same. Perhaps you will assure that all “infiltrators” are able bodied and thus capable of hard work. So you can keep increasing the amount of barbed wire, add shooting machines etc.
E. Building refugee centers can be practical, and why the government did not do it already, it is hard to tell. Perhaps some resources need to be diverted from settlement expansion?
Appendix. An example of idiocy of Eli Yishai. It is his opinion that IDF cannot be victorious now because unlike in the past the soldiers do not look into Heavens for inspiration. Actually, various statistics show that the opposite is true, at least the level of theism of both soldiers and officers is increasing quite steadily. Allegedly Yishai is also opposing an attack on Iran, which may be correct, but if his premise is insufficient piety of the troops, hm. I would agree that short of being commanded by Messiah, Israel has slim chances of successfully attacking Iran, but it still does not make the current IDF personnel less religious than, say, in 1967.