Recently, Benjamin Netanyahu’s office noticed an omission on the BBC Olympic country page for Israel. Jerusalem was not listed as the capital. But on Palestine’s page, East Jerusalem was undisputed.
Outraged, the prime minister’s office launched a Facebook campaign to convince the BBC that Jerusalem is in Israel, not Palestine. The government’s “Jerusalem is the Capital of Israel” page read:
Following the BBC’s decision to ommit Jerusalem as the Capital of Israel from its Olympic Games website, this is your place to support Jerusalem–the one and only Capital of Israel. [sic]
Government launched Facebook page to convince the BBC Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.
Since the page went live on Wednesday, fewer than 4,500 have “liked” the page, with one of the “like”—ers being the prime minister himself. In addition, Mark Regev, Netanyahu’s Foreign Press Adviser, sent a letter to the BBC demanding they update the entry:
Letter from a Netanyahu staffer Mark Regev expressing dismay that the BBC does not recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.
In response, the BBC changed Israel’s profile, but stood their ground on not listing the Jerusalem as the capital. The new profile reads:
Seat of government Jerusalem, though most foreign embassies are in Tel Aviv.
BBC Olympic country profiles do not recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel or Palestine.
But when it came to Palestine, the BBC did seem to give in to Israel’s online push. The news organization removed “East Jerusalem,” and inserted Ramallah as the West Bank and Gaza Strip’s administrative capital:
Intended seat of government East Jerusalem. Ramallah serves as administrative capital.
Jerusalem IS the capital of Israel. And that is beyond dispute unless the entirety of Jerusalem (not just the East) is up for negotiations. Further, a capital is decided by a sovereign country itself, not by the location of foreign embassies.
Mondonut, West Jerusalem can be Israel’s capital, and I don’t think anybody will mind. But East Jerusalem is outside Israel’s internationally recognised borders.
Actually,
As per international law, Jerusalem is to be an international city, belonging to no particular sovereign entity.
And Jerusalem is NOT recognized by any state on the planet as Israel’s capital. That should clue you in.
There is no International Law that declares Jerusalem to be an international city (whatever that is), and even if it were so it would also apply to “East” Jerusalem.
Next you’ll tell us that the Earth is flat.
Pay attention now, UN Resolution 181 (Also known as the 1947 UN Partition Plan) established Jerusalem as a separate entity, a Corpus Separatum.
Good Lord.
UN Resolution 181 was a General Assembly resolution, which means it had no force. Further, it was strictly a recommendation to the Security Council, who chose not to act on it, which made it a dead letter. And the entire Arab world rejected it, which made it irrelevant.
Yes, there is. That’s why, under international law, isreal has jurisdiction, but not sovereignty over West Jerusalem, but neither over Arab East “Jerusalem.”
RE: “Next you’ll tell us that the Earth is flat.” – Avi_G addressing “mondonut”
MY REPLY: Now be nice, Avi_G! He or she (“mondonut”) might very well be “learning impaired”, and it’s not nice to make fun of people with disabilities.
SPEAKING OF “NUTS”, SEE – “Rabbis warn Bush: Annapolis will bring destruction to US”, by Neta Sela, Ynet News, 11/06/07
Group of right-wing rabbis writes open letter to US president demanding he cancel Annapolis summit or risk provoking ‘wrath of the almighty.’ Rabbis assert Katrina disaster a result of America’s support of 2005 disengagement, say California fires a warning
SOURCE – link to ynetnews.com
P.S. ALSO SPEAKING OF “NUTS”, SEE: – “Bachmann: America ‘cursed’ by God ‘if we reject Israel’”, By Andy Birkey, The Minnesota Independent, 02/08/10
SOURCE – link to minnesotaindependent.com
• AND SEE: “Bachmann has secured funds from private donor to move US embassy to Jerusalem”, by Annie Robbins, Mondoweiss, 12/08/11
LINK – link to mondoweiss.net
P.P.S. SPEAKING OF EVEN MORE “NUTS”, SEE: “American Tourists Flock to Israeli Settlement Shooting School”, Common Dreams, 7/20/12
SOURCE – link to commondreams.org
“Good Lord.
UN Resolution 181 was a General Assembly resolution, which means it had no force…”
So Israel was never created at all? That is good news.
So tell me again, donut hole, What gave Israel the right to exist? And if UN GA 181 had “no force” in the eyes of Israel, why does the Israeli Declaration of Independence go something like this:
Every country has the right to decide its capital. Its one of the attributes of sovereignty.
Jerusalem IS Israel’s capital no matter what the rest of the world thinks.
Yes it is allowed to define its capital if that capital is on land that is internationally recognized as belonging to that country.
In which case, the Palestinians have the right to decide that East Jerusalem is it’s capital.
East Jerusalem IS NOT Israel’s capital no matter what Israel thinks.
The UN 1947 Corpus Separatum was a dead letter when the UN never came to the city’s defense.
The world has no say over it.
I know you hasbrats love to make up your own laws as you go along, but that one you;’ve just invented does not exist.
I have never heard of a sovereign country that didn’t have recongized borders…and Israel refuses to have any.
So your response is that Israel in not a sovereign country at all? Are you serious?
What defines a duck?
Clearly, and QED, Ducks and states have defined borders.
To paraphrase the great statesman Benjamin Netanyahu, in a speech that will go down in history for its Ciceronian elegance: link to informationclearinghouse.info
If it does NOT look like a duck;
If it does NOT quack like a duck;
It ain’t a duck.
Perhaps not so much as not sovereign, but criminal.
“So your response is that Israel in not a sovereign country at all? Are you serious?”
But I thought that’s what you just said. Now you’re confusing me.
Israel has treaty-delineated borders with Egypt and Jordan. And a UN mapped border with Lebanon – the “Blue Line.”
Apparently people who know nothing about the Middle East can’t be bothered to check the facts.
And which parts of the West Bank would be covered by that treaty with Jordan?
NormanF July 20, 2012 at 5:43 pm
“Israel has treaty-delineated borders with Egypt and Jordan. And a UN mapped border with Lebanon – the “Blue Line.””
Odd the borders of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon were delineated, established and recognized before UNGA res 181 1947, before Israel was declared 1948. They’ve never changed. Only the Armistice Demarcation Lines have changed. BTW the Armistice Agreements (yes Israel AGREED no borders would be changed under the Armistice AGREEMENTS) and Peace Agreements weren’t with the Palestinians, but between the State of Israel and the other Regional Powers.
“Apparently people who know nothing about the Middle East can’t be bothered to check the facts”
Yes indeed. So why don’t you?
“Israel has treaty-delineated borders with Egypt and Jordan. And a UN mapped border with Lebanon – the “Blue Line.”
Apparently people who know nothing about the Middle East can’t be bothered to check the facts.”
We know plenty. The ‘Blue line’ is not a border, but only a line the managed to get Israel to agree to withdraw to. That Egypt and Jordan have agreed to borders with Israel does not establish Israeli sovereignty.
Keep dreaming Zionist
Notice when they use ‘Jerusalem’ when referring to the ‘Israeli government’ knowing full well, as they must, that the capital of ‘Israel’ is ‘Tel Aviv’. It’s all part of the Zionist MSM drip drip method of creating ‘new realities’ simply by repeating the lie over and over again.
@Eva: The Palestinians WILL mind because they were not consulted nor consented to these people occupying their land.
Israel’s constitutional law seats the country’s parliament, government and supreme court in Jerusalem. I’m not aware of anything Israel has done to relinquish its sovereign rights over its capital – they are unreserved and absolute like with every other country on earth.
Jerusalem is not recognized internationally as belonging to Israel. Israel can keep saying that Jerusalem is its capital and the rest of the world can keep saying that it isn’t.
Norman F: Then again “Israel” is not any normal country. All of it is occupied Palestine.
NormanF July 20, 2012 at 5:47 pm
“Israel’s constitutional law …”
What constitution? Israel has never been able to write one. They’ve been trying for 64 years and can’t reconcile ‘democracy’ with a ‘Jewish State’
” I’m not aware of anything Israel has done to relinquish its sovereign rights over its capital”
When did it become sovereign over any territories it has acquired by war? It takes legal annexation. Israel has never legally annexed ANY territory.
“. I’m not aware of anything Israel has done to relinquish its sovereign rights over its capital – they are unreserved and absolute like with every other country on earth.”
Slight problem. Israel was recognized “as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947″ Just like the Provisional Israeli Government asked to be recognized. May 14th 1948 (Washington time)
Absolutely false. Even if we pretend that Resolution 181, which “created” Israel, was binding, Israel’s borders would be limited to those specified in 181, meaning that according to international law NONE of Jerusalem belongs to Israel.
And Eva I beg to differ. The Palestinians would mind because they did not consent to giving away Jerusalem.
1. UNGA Res 181 is not binding, nor was it ever implemented.
2. 181 does not define the borders of Israel.
3. The Palestinians have never had sovereignty of Jerusalem, so they could not “give it away”.
With your irrational logic you were free to steal most of the world under colonial rule before they were eventually given self determination.
I have not stolen anything, and certainly not most of the world.
So if you reject Res 181 then what gave Israel the right to exist?
Bullshit. Palestinians owned privately the land of Jerusalem. You seized it from them. Also read the Mandate Charter and you will find that the British Mandate was temporary–sovereignty was to be given to the Palestinian people.
“irrational logic” worked for USrael imperialists in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, and Iran WIP.
remember what Chas Freeman said:
Since — according to you — the partition plan was not binding and since international law means absolutely nothing to Israel or to you, then it follows that the so-called UN recognition of Israel is also bunk.
And that confirms that Israel was never truly a legitimate state. You can’t have it both ways.
Actually it does. But while we’re on the subject, perhaps you could explain how the partition plan does not define Israel’s borders, yet at the same time is the bread and butter of Hasbara that claims that The Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Those darn rejectionists. It seems that you and your pals are the ones doing all the rejecting.
You’re truly pathetic. Let’s for a moment pretend that the lie you’re peddling here were true, that still would not make it any less absurd that some foreign occupiers from Europe stole the land by force from the local indigenous population.
Spin it any way you want. It doesn’t change the facts.
Indeed:
Zionist and Palestinian Land Ownership, 1945:
From Village Statistics (Jerusalem: Palestine Government, 1945). It was subsequently published as United Nations map no 94(b) in August 1950. The category of ‘public ownership’ under the British Mandate derived from that known as miri under the Ottoman system of land tenure.
Jerusalem: Palestinian: 84 percent. Zionist: 2 percent Public & Other: 14 percent
(Now if only I could master that citequote thingy)
3. The Palestinians have never had sovereignty of Jerusalem, so they could not “give it away”.
That is where your argument falls apart. The problem is that there is a principle of international law that obligates states not to recognize any territory or qualification of statehood that was acquired in violation of the UN Charter. But the sovereign rights of non-Jewish Palestinian communities that were freed from the Ottoman Empire as a result of WWI had been formally recognized.
The international community, and the British government in particular, provided a number of assurances and entered into agreements with the Arabs and other Muslim groups about the status of the Holy sites and Jerusalem. You can read about some of those here: link to mondoweiss.net
In the International status of South West Africa case, Judge
McNair explained
The International Court of Justice noted that the “existing rights” of the Palestinian people had been placed under international guarantee a very long time ago. See paragraph 129 of the ICJ advisory opinion link to icj-cij.org
The Court noted that one of the most recent examples had been the Treaty of Berlin 1878. All of those “existing rights” of the non-Jewish communities were in-turn the subject of safeguarding clauses in the San Remo resolution and Article 13 of the Mandate, which among other things acknowledged the immunity of the Palestinians and the management of their Muslim Holy places. FYI, immunity is always an attribute of sovereignty. The ICJ noted that safeguards for the “existing rights” of Palestinians were once again the subject of a entire chapter in the UN partition plan. Those “existing rights” were placed under UN guarantee and reflected in the Statute of the Holy City of Jerusalem that was adopted by the Trustee Council and the General Assembly.
Many states still treat Jerusalem as a Corpus Separatum pending a final settlement agreement. Others, including the US simply view it as a de jure part of the Mandated State of Palestine that has not yet become part of any other sovereignty. The majority of other states have recognized the new State of Palestine and the existing rights and status of Palestinians in East Jerusalem. Several factors prevent countries from recognizing West Jerusalem as Israel’s capital: 1) the fact that it acquired the territory by force and annexed it in violation of the UN Charter; 2) the lack of any earlier declarations, agreements, or guarantees that provide Israel with sovereignty, immunity, or exclusive jurisdiction.
Lol Blake that citequote thingy is explained here.
“Palestinians owned privately the land of Jerusalem. ”
You are confusing the concepts of private land holding (real estate) and territorial sovereignty. Real estate holdings do not constitute sovereignty.
Speaking via satellite to the 7th Herzliya Conference of The Institute for Policy and Strategy (IPS) at the Interdisciplinary Center (IDC) Herzliya, Harvard Professor Alan Dershowitz warned Israel that they might have to go it alone in the coming years.
He pointed to 4 recent events that, according to Dershowitz, could bring about a “perfect storm” in the otherwise close relations between the U.S. & Israel.
Finally, a recent statement from Former Democratic Presidential Candidate and Supreme Allied Commander of NATO in Europe, General Wesley Clark recently hinted at Jewish involvement in U.S. foreign policy by saying “New York ‘money people’ are pushing the U.S. into war with Iran”.
All of these events point to statements that in the past wouldn’t only be heard in Europe. Dershowitz’s advised Israel & Jewish groups to continue to fight against the negative image that is being perpetrated by these and other factors but he also warned that “Israel must be prepared to lose American support in the coming years both diplomatically and economically. “My message to Israel is ‘be strong’ and be prepared to go it alone.”
This can’t come soon enough, but like a slow moving train wreck the event is in play, enjoy you hasbarist pos.
I am not confusing anything, mondonutty. If I own a piece of land and you seize it from me, that is stealing, illegal, unethical. Even if God acted as a real estate agent 2,000 years ago and “gave” it to you. The end. Doesn’t the Torah say something about how stealing is bad?
PFO.
“…“If you do something for long enough the world will accept it. The whole of international law is now based on the notion that an act that is forbidden today becomes permissible if executed by enough countries . . . . International law progresses through violations.” …”
It just never stops. Look, I know many jib at comparisons between Zionism and Naziism — but I keep noticing just how similar the two little nippers are.
The above is from a Zionist source. The Nazis said things that were remarkably similar. It displays the same cynicism and the same essential contempt for legality.
Israel wrote UNGA Res 181 into it’s declaration of idenepndence, so yes it is.
Yes it does. Israel’s letter to Truman states that the state of Israel was being decalred according to the agreed ferontiers as per UN181.
Israle has no sovereignty of East Jerusalem – it occupies it illegally.
” its declaration of independence”
Independence from whom?
Note too the victims of the heist of the century are never, and have never been, consulted.
Thankies roha
more so it recognized them as a state.
mondonut July 20, 2012 at 5:47 pm
“You are confusing the concepts of private land holding (real estate) and territorial sovereignty. Real estate holdings do not constitute sovereignty.”
Exactly. The Palestinians don’t need deeds to claim Palestinian territory as their own. They only have to be legitimate citizens of the territory and;
We were GIVEN, completely FREE, the ‘territory’ for a Jewish Homeland State per the boundaries outlined in UNGA Res 181. It was accepted on our behalves.
This is interesting too…
And again:
Israel declared, effective at one minute past midnight Palestine time May 15th 1948 and recognition “as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947″ began 11 minutes latter.
Whatever territory remained of Palestine at one minute past midnight May 15h 1948 (Palestine time), after Israel was declared independent of Palestine, was “outside the territory of the State of Israel”.
Now look what you’ve made me do. Made available information showing why the Palestinians have the law on their side and why resolution after resolution has been passed against Israel.
OMG !!! People will read and pass it on. Sorry, I shouldn’t have done that.
Oh well too late ;-)
Say …. you’re doing a fine job.
You Arab supporters like to have it both ways. You claim the UN had no authority to partition Palestine and then you say Israel must be bound by the terms of the same UN resolution the Arabs rejected and then went to invalidate by invading the newly independent Jewish State. Israel’s rights as a country do not derive from the UN but from the Jewish people’s inalienable right to national self-determination – which includes Jerusalem in which by the way, Jews have been a majority since the middle of the 19th Century.
No, you ZioFreaks have it both ways. You say that Israel was given the right to exist by the UN, but then you reject all UN resolutions telling you to get the hell out of Palestine and to let the refugees return.
You “Arab supporters”? Can this putz get the ban-hammer already?
Roya: I swear they just repeat the same things on every link once being disproved on an earlier link. They make it clear that they must have the last word. Maybe it’s some childish need in them, or an insecurity but it sure is annoying.
Norman F: Where has anybody said “Israel” must be bound to the Resolution? Simply stating what the Resolution says. You really love seeing things that are not that and putting words in peoples’ comments.
jews have no right to self determination, no religion does. Israel has the same legitmacy as the holy see, none.
NormanF July 20, 2012 at 5:50 pm
“You Arab supporters..”
No Arab Jews Norm? WOW!! That’s AMAZING!!
” you say Israel must be bound by the terms of the same UN resolution the Arabs rejected”
So what if the Arab States declined the offer? It’s a non-reason, twaddle spiel for people who don’t think, don’t check. Propaganda. Hasbara with the usual bloody great hole in it. In a word. CRAP!
The notion was to have two INDEPENDENT STATES. Independent meant they could not be dependent on the other, or the other’s existence. There was no clause demanding they both co-sign. Nor could there be. Not if they were to be independent. Independence is unilateral. No one can be obliged to declare independence.
The Jewish People’s Council accepted UNGA res 181 & enshrined it in the Declaration 6 months AFTER the Arab States declined. Isn’t that odd!
Do you think the Jewish People’s Council didn’t know what they were obliged to follow in order to gain recognition in order to become a UN Member State and be protected from the consequences of the law by a single veto vote in the UNSC?
“Israel’s rights as a country do not derive from the UN but from the Jewish people’s inalienable right to national self-determination “
Indeed. In Israel, not in Palestine. BTW the Jewish people’s inalienable right to national self-determination was fulfilled May 15th 1948 on the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel.
“which includes Jerusalem ..”
UNSC 476
1. Reaffirms the overriding necessity to end the prolonged occupation of Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem;
UNSC Res 252 (1968) of 21 May 1968, 267 (1969) of 3 July 1969, 271 (1969) of 15 September 1969, 298 (1971) of 25 September 1971, 465 (1980) of 1 March 1980, 476 June 30 1980 and 478 August 20 1980 ….. ALL say your brain is fried from too much ziocaine, Norm!!
since you clearly know more than I do can I ask a question. you say that the the partitian plan gave Israel legitimacy. but palestine status as a class A mandate could be construed as recognizition of the palestinian state encompessing all of palestine. and parts of international law namely the the montevideo convention state the the territory of a state is inviolable. would that mean though than that the partitian plan was a violation of already standing international law and negate the viability and ability to confer legitimacy?
pjdude July 22, 2012 at 3:14 pm
“..you say that the the partitian plan gave Israel legitimacy”
Not quite. Israel’s legitimacy comes from the Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel and the self imposed obligations it contains, it’s plea to be recognized and its subsequent recognition based on that plea and the Declaration. Legitimacy had to exist before recommendation by the UNSC & acceptance into the UN.
Once in the UN a state only has to secure one veto vote in the UNSC to be kept from the consequences of the Law and the UN Charter, including being kicked out of the UN. Without the US veto vote, Israel would be forced to face the consequences of its obligations under the Charter and International Law
Israel has to work hard at keeping that one veto vote, because the Law and the UN Charter fall squarely on the Palestinian side. Faced with the consequences of the Law/Charter, Israel would be broke for decades as it attempted to pay compensation, relocated hundreds of thousands of Israelis back to Israel. So it is Israel who MUST negotiate, reaching an agreement with the Palestinian Authority in order to circumvent the consequences of the Law. Thus far Israel has chosen link to youtu.be and a dependency on the US veto vote. All those precious illegal facts on the ground in one basket…
” but palestine status as a class A mandate could be construed as recognizition of the palestinian state encompessing all of palestine”
Indeed it was, until Israel was declared independent of Palestine. The area that became Israel was renamed, the State of Israel. What remained of Palestine was not renamed. In fact the Israeli Government acknowledged on the 22nd May 1948 that Palestine was separate from the State of Israel.
“.. parts of international law namely the the montevideo convention state the the territory of a state is inviolable. would that mean though than that the partitian plan was a violation of already standing international law and negate the viability and ability to confer legitimacy?”
A majority of the United Nations Members voted to adopt UNGA res 181, over riding the Arab States rightful legal argument. A majority of the International Community of Nations recognized Israel, over riding the Arab states. A majority of the UNSC recommended Israel for UN Membership and a majority of the UN General Assembly voted to accept Israel into the UN.
but what about the parts of internatioan law that prohibit recognizing territorial gains made through force whether it be war, hostile diplomatic measure, and or coersion. not these aren’t the limits of force. wouldn’t that invalidate the recognizition in at least some of those states? I know the US signed the montevideo convention which would have made it illegal to recognize ISrael due to the force in its creation.
another 2 questions and this is more philisophical. the UN charter stated that the former colonies and mandates couldn’t be devided into smaller states. well than the question here does the UN have the right and ability to pass a resolution that violates its own charter? kind of the the US constitution and law making. can a body do something legitimately that violates the rules set out in their creating document
second question. you state the since the UN decided to over ride the rights of the palestinain that it was ok despite the laws saying no you can’t. well doesn’t this mean that than their are no laws. I mean really if you don’t have to follow it it’s not really a law. so wouldn’t that mean none of ISrael’s crimes are actually crimes?
would you be ok with that?
sorry one more question can’t help my self when you have such a good grasp of things
even though the unvoted to take away the palestinian right to self determination in parts of palestine would the future palestinian state at the very least have some sort of claim to the land that ISrael stole due to it being by your own addmission being taken contrary to international law and could seek to reclaim it through peaceful means of treaty( not that would ever happen. as we have seen for ISraeli behavior it if it was jewish owned its ours. if it wasn’t jewish owned and we want it its ours.
@ Mondonut: “Jerusalem IS the capital of Israel.”
Only for Israeli’s, Mondonut, not for anyone else. In terms of a six year old: It doesn’t count.
“Further, a capital is decided by a sovereign country itself, not by the location of foreign embassies.”
Wrong. A country can say whatever it likes. No one is bound to respect it. That’s the point. If the government of Brazil declared that Milwalkee was it’s capital, the BBC is not obligated to glorify that fantasy. Same here.
Milwaukee is not part of Brazil obviously, so that is hardly an analogy. Unless of course that you maintain that no part of Jerusalem, not even the western half, is part of Israel.
Actually, that’s exactly what is being posited. Let me be abundantly clear, no part of Jerusalem is sovereign Israeli land for the following reasons:
1) the city was privately owned overwhelmingly by Palestinian Arabs who were promised independence by British and French for revolting against the Ottoman
2) Resolution 181, the basis for an Israeli state, does not include Jerusalem under Israeli sovereignty;
3) the self-declared state of Israel proclaimed independence over west Jerusalem in violation of Res. 181 and without consent of indigenous Arab majority of the city after exerting militant force to aquired “control” of the city, and countless other locales beyond those borders stipulated in Res. 181;
4) not a single government of the world accepts Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, whereas a great many acknowledge east Jerusalem as exclusively Palestinian (for the aforementioned reasons).
“Milwaukee is not part of Brazil obviously, so that is hardly an analogy. ”
And al Quds is not legally part of israel. Israel has jurisdiction over part of it, but not sovereignty.
and jerusalem is not a legal part of Israel( well depending on how interpert international law Israel isn’t a legal part of Israel) so technically it cannot legally be the capital.
” Unless of course that you maintain that no part of Jerusalem, not even the western half, is part of Israel.”
Well, there you go. The only legal boundaries Israel has are those she accepted in 1947. Those boundaries did not include any part of Jerusalem. Therefore, no part of Jerusalem is in Israel.
If you don’t like Milwaukee, perhaps we could offer Danzig. Would the rest of the world have been obliged to accept Danzig as Germany’s capital if Germany had declared it was after taking it by force in 1939?
It seems about as close to a good analogy as we’re going to get. As Jerusalem was intended to be, Danzig was a ‘free city,’ administered directly by an international body.
The world can say the say the earth is flat, too. But it can never sever the Jewish attachment too and love for Jerusalem.
@ NormanF: “But it can never sever the Jewish attachment too and love for Jerusalem.”
Actually I am having a hard time visualizing that. Fact is that Israel is damaging Jerusalem’s landscape, culture and physical population on a huge scale. Your affectional claim is declared null and void.
You can love Jerusalem all you want. It’s not your capital, religious psycho.
Fortunately, having an attachment to and love for a piece of land doesn’t justify war, ethnic cleansing, colonialism and apartheid.
The Jewish people, whose love for Jerusalem is apparently so strong, have every right to settle in the Holy Land… as individuals, not as an armed conquering force fresh off boats from Europe. Incidentally, Jerusalem’s sephardic Jewish population (the ones who actually had a legitimate and physical attachment to the land for centuries) opposed the colonial aspirations of a Jewish state as envisioned by Zionism.
” …But it can never sever the Jewish attachment too and love for Jerusalem.”
Us Christians, too! We have an attachment to Jerusalem! Witness the crusades.
I do believe the Muslims have an attachment to Jerusalem as well.
So I guess we’ll all just have to share. Proportional to the number of adherents of each faith?
“But it (the world) can never sever the Jewish attachment too and love for Jerusalem.”
Aww, that is so sweet Norman F. I have followed this thread and seen you and your fellow Zio-facist cohorts get torn apart in these argument…it was actually a little embarrassing to read (almost began to feel sorry for you)…
…and now you are resorting to emotional arguments — nobody cares about your silly little “attachment” to Jerusalem. It’s NOT yours…but feel free to visit.
Well NormanF I love Tahiti and other tropical islands. I mention them all the time in my prayers especially during the harsh Finnish winters. So actually the islands belong to me and my offspring.
The only argument Jews have towards the right to rule Israel is in the end the religious one. Even a completely atheistic (if it is possible) or secular Jew has to admit it. Judaism is a simply a religion, not a race.
Jerusalem is mentioned also in Christian prayers and psalms so there is an equal cultural/religious “justification” which Jews use in their claims for the land in Palestine. So didn’t a Catholic Polish farmer have an equal right to Israel/Palestine than a Polish Jewish doctor had? Both had a equal “love towards Jerusalem” and both could not prove that their ancestors were really from the ancient Israel.
you can be attached to it all you want that doesn’t make it yours.
I want a lambo and several million dollar homes including one in the carribean but that don’t mean I will automaticaly be getting them.
‘Mondo-nut’; You certainly picked the right name. That’s all you got right.
Well, it will become more and more of an Olympic sport for Israel to get away with its bogus theories. I think we need a new name for this ‘sport’ as well. Ziothlon might cover it.
“Well, it will become more and more of an Olympic sport for Israel to get away with its bogus theories. I think we need a new name for this ‘sport’ as well. Ziothlon might cover it.”
That could be fun. A random Israeli outrage is drawn from a spinning drum. The contestants each get one minute to compose a defense of it. The judges score their performance.
The winner gets moved to Israel — whether he actually wants to go or not.
Is there a distinction between “seat of government” and “capital”? If there isn’t, why does the BBC use the more cumbersome form?
“Is there a distinction between ‘seat of government’ and ‘capital’?”
Yes. The seat of government is the place where the organs of government meet and function. The capital is the declared premiere place in the state; it is the place which is agreed to hold primary status. They are usually the same, but not always.
There are many examples of unusual arrangements. For example, South Africa has three capitals (and three seats of government), one administrative, one legislative and one judicial. The Netherlands’ capital is Amsterdam, but it’s seat of government is The Hague.
In israel, the world does not recognize its claim of soverignty over the city of al Quds/Jerusalem nor, as a consequence, its claim to be a capital, although it is clearly where the state has located the organs of government.
So the BBC’s formulation is correct here.
Dutch seat of gov’t is The Hague. Capital is Amsterdam. So in that case it’s not the same thing at least.
They could be the same, but for instance in Holland the seat of government is The Hague whereas the capital is Amsterdam.
Politics.
I think the BBC’s edits are factually accurate. Of course, that won’t stop the ‘yahoo and his minions from banging their spoons on thier high chairs…
Imagine if Hitler had arranged for Germany’s Olympics to be held in the Sudetenland even before he had coerced his appeasers to agree to cede that chunk of Czechoslovakia to Germany.
On any reasonable website, this comment would have been deleted by the moderators.
Then you should move over to Huffington Post, which caters to Zionists like yourself…
“Imagine if”….
“On any reasonable website, this comment would have been deleted by the moderators.”
Imagination is a crime?
Imagine if Herzl (Visionary of the State), had arranged for Israels Maccabiah Games in occupied Palestine…
“The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters”:
link to en.wikipedia.org
“It consists of a self-portrait of the artist with his head on a table, as owls and bats surround him, assailing him as he buries his head into his arms.[3] Seemingly poised to attack the artist are owls (symbols of folly) and bats (symbols of ignorance).”
link to en.wikipedia.org
The world has been asleep for a very long time. The world is waking up to the monster Israel has become.
Imagine:
Imagine there’s no heaven
It’s easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today…
Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace…
You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world…
You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world will live as one
link to youtube.com
what is it about history & counterfactuals that frightens you, Winnica?
Why would it be deleted? Not only is the analogy apt, but it’s also entirely unoffensive to anyone with the ability to view the history of Israel with even a modicum of clarity.
“On any reasonable website, this comment would have been deleted by the moderators.”
Why?
A recent BBC global poll asked citizens of some 20 countries how they ranked each country.
link to globescan.com
The worst and at the top of the list was Iran, followed by Pakistan in the second place, and North Korea and Israel tying in the third place.
So The Only Democracy in the Middle East turns out to be no different than North Korea.
I’m sure that will sound absurd to many an Israel lover, but the truth can often appear stranger than (Hasbara) fiction.
If I’m not mistaken Avi is a Hebrew name…so if you don’t mind sharing, are you Israeli, Avi G?
Roya,
I often wonder what the background is of posters here; it would be interesting to know.
I get the impression that most posters on this site are Jewish (from the US, Britain, Israel, etc), and that there are very few Palestinian or other Arab posters here. I could be way off, but the feeling I get when reading various threads is that it is a battle between liberal/progressive/enlightened Jews and bat-sh_t, wingnut Zionists.
Unfortunately, yes; technically, at least.
You see, on a moral, emotional and intellectual level I have no wish nor desire to be associated with Israel in any way, shape or form.
Avi, I have a lot of respect for you. It takes a lot of character to reject something you’ve been indoctrinated with from birth, even if that something is as abhorrent as the manifestation of Zionism. If you ever want to share your ‘how I fell out of love with Israel’ story I won’t think you’re grandstanding.
And Dexter, I get the same feeling but as far as I can tell Avi is the only anti-Zionist [technically] Israeli currently actively posting on Mondoweiss.
shmuel is israeli too
Well then shout-out to Shmuel too.
And Danaa, bless her..
That’s mainly because people are ignorant. The worst country on earth, hands down is North Korea. They have slave complexes the size of greater Los Angeles where they breed people to be slaves from birth for the greater glory of their leader, not just a few either, hundreds of thousands. The penalty for not reporting an escape attempt is death. Iran and Pakistan don’t even come close.
It can be argued that Zionist Jews do the same thing: breed and brainwash people Jews from cradle to the grave.
And it works. Take yourself for example: you are an American and you have far more loyalty/allegiance to the state of Israel than to your own country (you may deny this, but we all know it’s true).
Funny how many of the things you, Dexter, think you know that aren’t true.
Oh please Fred…we all know it’s true. We all know you would wipe the United States right off the map if it meant saving your little supremacist project called Israel.
Care to tell us which country you are a citizen of then???…
…or are you a “dual” citizen? ;)
Freedonia. (look it up). Actually the USA. Nice little hint at that anti-Semitic classic “dual loyalty” though.
“Nice little hint at that anti-Semitic classic ‘dual loyalty’ though.”
There’s nothing antisemitic about pointing out when someone has loyalty to more than one state, if, in fact, they demonstrate loyalty to more than one state. (Here’s a clue, when one of your fellow zionist spear catchers, hoppy, referred to what the israelis should or shouldn’t do in the West Bank by referring to them as “we,” that’s a pretty good indication that his loyalty is not exclusive to the USA.) But this “antisemitism” nonsense lets you pretend that your dual loyalty is not a problem, but only the charge is. That’s a load of garbage. Someone who is solely loyal to his country has a right to expect the same out of his fellow Americans. You have the right to split your loyalties; you don’t have the right to be free of criticism for it.
Wow Fred. You’ve really outdone yourself here.
Were you away worshiping the state of Isfail when this came up recently?
link to mondoweiss.net
Treating people like shit is just that. Are you saying we should go after the real ‘baddies’ first, or just shut up about everyone?
Narp. We’re coming after Israel. Why? Because after the Shoah they should know better. Because they lie and claim they give equal rights and we know better. Because they’re Europeans and damned well should know better.
“Wow Fred. You’ve really outdone yourself here.”
I disagree. Fredo is a knee-jerk, brain-dead zio who will defend israel of even individual Jews, regardless of the facts and even in start contravention to them. However, in this sole issue, Fredo is right. North Korea is the worst country on Earth.
So give the devil his due.
Relative to public relations efforts by Israel and its supporters this is pretty impressive. Most of the Western media are rabidly pro-Israel, refusing to report its atrocities and consistently backing it against any opposition. And yet still it manages to be third worst. Israel should ask for its money back.
“The worst country on earth, hands down is North Korea. They have slave complexes the size of greater Los Angeles where they breed people to be slaves from birth for the greater glory of their leader…”
So when Israel has ‘slave complexes the size of greater Los Angeles where they breed people to be slaves from birth for the greater glory of their leader’ will it be legitimate to condemn her? Should the US cease supplying her with arms at that point?
Kind of a poser, isn’t it? One does wonder — just what would Israel have to do before it would be legitimate to condemn her? In your view, that is.
And right alongside it is Israel, according to polls.
link to haaretz.com
Interesting ranking results, when one considers that Iran has been subjected to a relentless campaign of demonization for ~30 years, while Israel has relentlessly promoted itself and hidden its crimes under dirt like a dog covers its poop.
“The worst and at the top of the list was Iran, followed by Pakistan in the second place, and North Korea and Israel tying in the third place. “
Checking out the poll shows that respondents came from the US, among other places.
I wonder how Israel would fare if the US respondents were factored out?
From the Haaretz article:
A 10% increase in 1 year is pretty significant and suggests that Israel is losing the PR war at an accelerating pace, despite the recent increase in hasbara efforts as measured by the sudden increase in the zionist posters to this site.
They are badly losing in the comments of that Facebook page, btw…
They have just been deleted. All the factual ones are no more. Just propaganda ones are allowed to stay up. Mark Regev is obviously working late tonight.
I hope someone copied the whole lot.
Ahh no wonder I only saw hasbara when I checked it out.
There’s some seriously delusional people out there on Facebook. Perhaps an IQ test should be required to open an account? From Carmella Fichman 6 hours ago:
“BBC is bought by Muslems or all arab contries and control by them. We are not surprised how BBC delivers anti Israeli news and anti Isaeli propoganda. Most of the population of the world is contaminated and poisened by Arab lies against Israe, and look what happened the western world and other democratic countries try to accept the Islamic fandamentals and mentalities, the free world kiss ——-the arab world, and what do we get back TERROR.”
Lol. That’s standard stuff from their indoctrinated to nothing shills who infest the net. It’s not just on fb.
Dumb rrrrss for illegal Israeli expansionism are so well trained. The only country in the world with its unrecognized capital outside the the sovereign extent of the state. Ziocaine is nothing short of miraculous!
What is the issue here. Jerusalem belongs to both Palestinians and Israelis. It is the capital for both of them. Isn’t this very simple?
anan July 22, 2012 at 11:49 pm
“Jerusalem belongs to both Palestinians and Israelis. It is the capital for both of them. Isn’t this very simple?”
Not quite that simple. The only part of the partition plan ever implemented was the establishment of the State of Israel.
corpus separatum was not instituted, it was never split from Palestine. UNSC res 476