The country with the fourth largest Jewish population in the world isn’t even a country

by on July 9, 2012 61
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From mappingworlds.com:

jewishmaplisting

The map uses numbers from the 2007 CIA Factbook and lists the Jewish population of the Palestinian Authority as 683,000.

About Adam Horowitz

Adam Horowitz is Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.
Posted in Israel/Palestine, Occupation, Settlers/Colonists

{ 61 comments... read them below or add one }

  1. FreddyV says:
    July 9, 2012 at 9:46 am

    Ha! Funny!

    These stats have to be referring to the settlements right?

  2. Bumblebye says:
    July 9, 2012 at 10:11 am

    Meanwhile, a panel set up by Yahu has reported that there is no occupation, so the figures must be wrong! No occupation, therefore no need for a PA, it’s all Israel now!
    link to 972mag.com
    Netanyahu has made it a 1ss. All that remains is to end the apartheid.

    • German Lefty says:
      July 10, 2012 at 1:48 pm

      Netanyahu has made it a 1ss.
      What does “1ss” mean?

        • Mooser says:
          July 11, 2012 at 11:29 am

          yonah fredman says:
          July 10, 2012 at 3:47 pm
          “1 state solution”

          A great idea. That’ll put those Palestinians at the mercy of Israel. Israel will proclaim they are now her citizens, and anything Israel does is an “internal security matter”
          If there is a one state solution, who is going to put a leash on the Jewish Israelis?
          And of course, when you say, “1 state solution” it means the Zionists get to keep everything they have stolen? Does anybody get their house or fields back?

      • Woody Tanaka says:
        July 10, 2012 at 3:54 pm

        1ss is “One State Solution”; the solution whereby every person from the Med to the Jordan is given full human rights and the right to vote.

        • German Lefty says:
          July 10, 2012 at 4:26 pm

          1ss is “One State Solution”
          Thanks. This site could use a glossary for the newbies. As German, I have always associated “SS” with something else. A while ago, I stumbled across the term “SS marriage”. At first, I was totally puzzled. It was a relief to find out that it’s just gays getting married and not some weird neo-Nazi ritual.

        • Woody Tanaka says:
          July 10, 2012 at 4:50 pm

          “As German, I have always associated “SS” with something else. ”

          Every once in a while, someone will, in print, abreviate the US Secret Service as the “SS” or use it to refer to the US Social Security program. That always makes me stop for a second. (Of course, I was surprised to learn that the band “Kiss” uses a different typeface in Europe, because it uses a faux-runic “SS” in the US that resembles that used for the Schutzstaffel.)

        • German Lefty says:
          July 10, 2012 at 5:34 pm

          @ Woody:
          I was surprised to learn that the band “Kiss” uses a different typeface in Europe
          I didn’t know that. Too young for Kiss. I’d have to ask my father.
          Also, it’s forbidden to include the abbreviations HJ, KZ, NS, SA or SS in license plate numbers. Strangely, AH is allowed. A lot of people use their initials in their license plate number. So, if your parents picked a “wrong” name for you, then you can’t do that.
          I think this ban is overcautious and counterproductive. Outlawing these abbreviations kind of makes them meaningful and sacred. In my opinion, it’s time that these abbreviations loose their special meaning and become normal again.

        • Woody Tanaka says:
          July 10, 2012 at 6:27 pm

          “I didn’t know that. Too young for Kiss. I’d have to ask my father.”

          One amusing story I heard is when the rock band Mötley Crüe toured Germany, they were shocked to hear the croud pronouce the name as it would be pronouced in German, with the German phonology and with the second word having two syllables, because the umlauts and the spelling were for show and the name is pronouced, in English, “motley crew.”

          “Also, it’s forbidden to include the abbreviations HJ, KZ, NS, SA or SS in license plate numbers. Strangely, AH is allowed.”

          I’m surprised that “HJ” is not permitted, but “AH” is. I would have guessed, based on what I know about neo-Nazi code, that “HH” would also be disallowed, if the others are.

          “I think this ban is overcautious and counterproductive. Outlawing these abbreviations kind of makes them meaningful and sacred. In my opinion, it’s time that these abbreviations loose their special meaning and become normal again.”

          I tend to agree. I think that whatever the merits to outlawing such things in the past, they can be counterproductive. I think that sunshine is the best disinfectant for these issues.

        • Theo says:
          July 11, 2012 at 9:06 am

          Lefty

          I have an SS number and it is not what you may think.
          Hang on and learn, I am doing the same.

        • Theo says:
          July 11, 2012 at 9:29 am

          Germany goes ape sh.t on any old nazi symbols!

          My daughter, born US citizen, went to school in Germany. I gave her a paperback about the WWII that had a large nazi cross on the cover, nothing special in the USA. However, she was dragged to the director of the school and was handled like a new born nazi, at age 12!!

          HH is the short of Hamburg, Hansastadt Hamburg, so it can not be forbiden. In my opinion, since 90% of today´s germans cannot be made responsible, it is time to stopp all that nonsense. Anything forbiden is more enticing.

        • eljay says:
          July 11, 2012 at 10:36 am

          >> HH is the short of Hamburg, Hansastadt Hamburg, so it can not be forbiden. … it is time to stopp all that nonsense.

          If I’ve heard that once, I’ve heard it 88 times…and I agree completely! :-)

        • Mooser says:
          July 11, 2012 at 11:32 am

          German Lefty, SS has stood for, and will always stand for Super Sport. You know, it just hit me. Almost every motorcycle manufacturer makes or has made a bike called the SS (“RR” in Japanese). But BMW calls their sports models (wonderful bikes, had 3 until my perspective on the logo shifted one day and I sold them) simply the “S” Hmmm?

        • Mooser says:
          July 11, 2012 at 12:02 pm

          “Too young for Kiss.”

          You’re never to young to osculate. Start with your Mom, sisters and Aunts (or their counterparts if you are a woman) and of course, your dog and cat.
          By the time you reach middle school you should be ready to move on to the big time.

        • German Lefty says:
          July 11, 2012 at 4:46 pm

          @ Theo:
          I have an SS number and it is not what you may think.
          So, it’s not a Social Security number?

          I gave her a paperback about the WWII that had a large nazi cross on the cover, nothing special in the USA. She was dragged to the director of the school and was handled like a new born nazi, at age 12!
          Well, I think that symbols should be treated differently than ordinary letters or letter combinations. Unlike certain abbreviations, Nazi symbols – like the swastika – don’t have any other meaning or use in Germany. That’s why there is no point in trying to strip these symbols of their Nazi-related meaning. Nazi symbols are rightly forbidden and only allowed for education purposes.
          I agree with you in that the interrogation by the headmaster was too much. However, I think that in such a situation it is totally appropriate that the school staff examines this non-school book to find out whether it’s educational or propaganda and that the child is asked where s(he) got the book from. I mean, the child could be a victim of harmful parental indoctrination. And in such a case, the school must not be negligent.
          And no, it is NOT normal that a 12-year-old child has a book about WWII with a giant Nazi symbol on its cover. That’s too much cruelty for a child. You only think that it’s normal, because so many Americans are WWII fetishists and violence is omnipresent in the USA anyway.

        • German Lefty says:
          July 11, 2012 at 4:53 pm

          You’re never to young to osculate.
          Mooser, I knew that someone would say something like this. And for your information, I am a woman. Too bad that the English language makes me neuter when I call myself “German Lefty”.

        • German Lefty says:
          July 11, 2012 at 5:07 pm

          @ Woody:
          when the rock band Mötley Crüe toured Germany, they were shocked to hear the crowd pronouce the name as it would be pronounced in German
          Yeah, these crazy Germans. When they see typically German letters, they simply pronounce them as German letters. How dare they?

          I’m surprised that “HJ” is not permitted, but “AH” is. I would have guessed, based on what I know about neo-Nazi code, that “HH” would also be disallowed
          HJ stands for Hitlerjugend. AH and HH, however, were not common abbreviations at that time. Therefore, they are legal. Also, I read that the government merely makes recommendations regarding what to disallow on license plate numbers. The districts decide themselves which recommendations they implement.

          I think that sunshine is the best disinfectant for these issues.
          The (stereo)typical American mindset ;-)

        • Woody Tanaka says:
          July 11, 2012 at 5:50 pm

          “Yeah, these crazy Germans. When they see typically German letters, they simply pronounce them as German letters. How dare they?”

          Well, in fairness, this is Crüe we’re talking about here, not Rhodes scholars. Ignorance, not arrogance.

          “Also, I read that the government merely makes recommendations regarding what to disallow on license plate numbers. The districts decide themselves which recommendations they implement.”

          Interesting. In the US, the states (the government) issue the plates. Are the districts in Germany who make these decisions not government agencies?

          “The (stereo)typical American mindset ;-)”

          Hell, yeah, I’m for debating anything.

  3. seafoid says:
    July 9, 2012 at 10:13 am

    Countries with the largest populations of Jewish sociopaths

    1. Palestinian Authority
    2 Israel
    3 n/a

  4. The Hasbara Buster says:
    July 9, 2012 at 10:15 am

    The list is wrong. France, the UK, Canada, the Russian Federation and probably the Ukraine have more Jews than Argentina.

  5. Klaus Bloemker says:
    July 9, 2012 at 11:19 am

    Who is counted as a ‘Jew’?

    The German statistical Yearbook gives two numbers:
    - ‘Jews’: 164,ooo (0.2% of the population)
    - ‘Jewish members of a Synagogue’: 82,000

    • eljay says:
      July 9, 2012 at 11:27 am

      >> Who is counted as a ‘Jew’?

      You’ll have to ask a Zio-supremacist like giladgeee. He seems to know who merits being considered a Jew and who does not.

    • German Lefty says:
      July 10, 2012 at 1:51 pm

      Who is counted as a ‘Jew’?
      I’d say: People who believe in Judaism.

      • ColinWright says:
        July 11, 2012 at 3:39 am

        That definition kind of makes the Jewish credentials of Zionism questionable.

        Think about it. Most of the founders were non-observant Jews. If you surveyed people who support Zionism, you would find most of them are Christians (well, they would claim to be Christian).

        • Theo says:
          July 11, 2012 at 9:15 am

          Colin

          The question was who is a jew, not who is a zionist.

          In my opinion there is no simple answer. There are jews who do not believe in God, like millions of soviet and other communists. Ben Gurion and Golda Meir looked like jews, but probably never saw a synagoge inside.
          On the other hand, are the Clinton and Biden girls jews after marrying one and taking on that religion?

        • Mooser says:
          July 11, 2012 at 11:44 am

          “On the other hand, are the Clinton and Biden girls jews after marrying one and taking on that religion?”

          I would imagine humiliated, resentful and put-upon, even if they don’t admit it to themselves. And I have no respect at all for a man who doesn’t think a wife is entitled to her own religion. And the women who submits has neatly proclaimed she’s ready to be a doormat for as long as the marriage lasts. But then again, I guess girls learn a lot of stuff about marriage from their Mom’s and the behavior of the parents. Maybe when you see your Mom publically humiliated in front of the entire country, you have a different perspective.

        • Woody Tanaka says:
          July 11, 2012 at 12:21 pm

          “In my opinion there is no simple answer.”

          For the love of pete, why is it so easy to understand that “Russian” refers to both a people and a language, but not that “Jew” refers to both a people and a religion. It’s not complicated at all.

        • ColinWright says:
          July 11, 2012 at 1:38 pm

          If ‘Jew’ refers to ‘both a people and a religion,’ then the term is a myth, since anyone can see that Jews are not a single people.

        • Woody Tanaka says:
          July 12, 2012 at 11:19 am

          “If ‘Jew’ refers to ‘both a people and a religion,’ then the term is a myth, since anyone can see that Jews are not a single people.”

          The “French” are a people and they are an amalgam of many different peoples. Same with “Russians,” “Japanese,” “English,” “Germans,” “Chinese” and just about any other supposedly homogeneous group. (And that’s not including groups like “Americans” or “Hispanics”) I don’t see why “Jews” would be any different — a people made up of an amalgam of subgroups.

        • German Lefty says:
          July 13, 2012 at 12:57 pm

          @ Woody:
          why is it so easy to understand that “Russian” refers to both a people and a language, but not that “Jew” refers to both a people and a religion.
          Because a people has an own country. Is there a Jewland? Do you think there should be a Jewland? People is tantamount to nation. For example, you can become a Russian by acquiring Russian citizenship. But how can you become a Jew? Only by converting to Judaism. So, the key element of Jewishness is the Jewish religion.
          And, of course, it’s possible that a word can have more than one meaning. However, with “Jew” that’s not the case.

      • Mooser says:
        July 11, 2012 at 11:36 am

        “I’d say: People who believe in Judaism.”

        Thank God we all have an biological video screen on our foreheads which reveals exactly what we believe and on what level. Other wise things could get confusing.

        Oh, BTW, does believing in Judaism require a belief in God? Do you think “Jewish Atheist” is a valid term?

        • German Lefty says:
          July 11, 2012 at 5:31 pm

          @ Mooser:
          I would imagine humiliated, resentful and put-upon, even if they don’t admit it to themselves. And I have no respect at all for a man who doesn’t think a wife is entitled to her own religion.
          Please elaborate on the first sentence.
          Also, I think that a conversion on someone else’s request or as a favour can never be an actual, honest conversion and is therefore totally meaningless.

          Oh, BTW, does believing in Judaism require a belief in God?
          Yes, Judaism is a monotheistic religion.

          Do you think “Jewish Atheist” is a valid term?
          No. That’s a contradiction in terms.

          Oh, by the way, I just got this lovely comment on my website:
          “you are a kraut and have no moral authority. therefore, who gives a crap what you think. drop dead.”

        • German Lefty says:
          July 11, 2012 at 5:46 pm

          Oh, by the way, I just got this lovely comment on my website:
          “you are a kraut and have no moral authority. therefore, who gives a crap what you think. drop dead.”
          I just saw that the person who wrote this comment came to my website via the link that I put in my Mondoweiss profile. So, it’s obvs some crazy Zio.

        • Theo says:
          July 12, 2012 at 9:19 am

          Lefty

          That should teach you not to give away all your secrets.
          Be proud to be a kraut, (hey, it sounds great), Germany is the top nation on this globe. Ask that zio how many palestinian children did he or his kill today?

        • German Lefty says:
          July 12, 2012 at 6:39 pm

          @ Theo:
          That should teach you not to give away all your secrets.
          All my secrets? I don’t consider my nationality or my website a secret. My website doesn’t reveal my identity. I preserve my anonymity.

          Be proud to be a kraut
          Nope. I think that the feeling of pride requires a certain accomplishment. And my nationality is pure coincidence. Priding myself on a coincidence would be dumb. However, I am proud of certain achievements of my country, e.g. the decision about the nuclear power phase-out.

          Germany is the top nation on this globe.
          That’s your opinion? Really? But Germany doesn’t even murder anyone by lethal injection and her people go apeshit on Nazi symbols… Don’t you know?

        • Theo says:
          July 19, 2012 at 1:43 pm

          Lady Lefty

          We all are not perfect, a few dents on our character makes us more human. Do not look at the parts separately, but at the whole picture.
          Besides, I am sure millions of americans are against a capital sentence, perhaps a majority of them. Our glorious leaders do not care what the people wishes, they have their own minds.

        • German Lefty says:
          July 19, 2012 at 2:35 pm

          @Theo:
          I am sure millions of americans are against a capital sentence, perhaps a majority of them.
          Actually, 65 % of US Americans support the death penalty. Also, remember the celebration when Bin Laden was murdered. Celebrating murder – how civilised!
          In Germany, there is no current poll rating about death penalty available, because death penalty is just not an option as it violates human rights. And human rights are not a matter of popularity. The last poll is from a few years ago, and it says that over 70 % of Germans oppose the death penalty. Not enough if you ask me.
          Please take a few minutes time for watching these vids:
          link to youtube.com
          link to youtube.com
          By the way, why do you call me Lady Lefty?

  6. Klaus Bloemker says:
    July 9, 2012 at 11:38 am

    US census and Jews

    As far as I know, the questionaire of the US census has an entry ‘ethnicity’.
    You check ‘Jew’ (or Irish) as an ethnicity. – It used to be that you could check only one box, now someone can check two, for instance: ‘african-American’ and ‘Jew’.

    • Mooser says:
      July 11, 2012 at 1:26 pm

      “You check ‘Jew’”

      Klaus, this is still, to some extent America, and we may have a different idea about civil rights than Germany (not that it’s not a great place that does well by its citizens these days).
      You don’t check a goddam thing on that part of the census if you don’t want to, it is, as it declares at the head of the section, optional and entirely voluntary,and strictly informational, and if you do check something, nobody checks on your answer.
      And I don’t know what you have heard, but your tax rate does not depend on your answer, as far as I know, and I do pay them.
      And there’s no box marked “Palmate-antlered ungulate, please excuse all taxes” but, heck, I’m used to injustice like that. At least there’s a very short season these days, and low bag limits.

    • American says:
      July 11, 2012 at 1:53 pm

      There is no check box for Jew or any combinations of Jew and another on the US Census form survey.
      There is no check box for religion on the US Census form.
      This a check race on the US census form, including a mixed race check box.
      There is a what is your ethnic ‘origin’ check box that includes Asian, Hispanic, several other sub set variations of that….Jew is not on the list of ethnic origins.

      Officially in the United States, by virtue of a US Supreme Court ruling, Jews are not considered an ethnic or a race. They are only,under all US law, recognized as 1) a minority and 2) as a religious group.

  7. Blake says:
    July 9, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    Argentina is only 7th here and PA does not even figure:
    link to en.wikipedia.org

  8. ToivoS says:
    July 9, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    This number of 683,000 living in the PA is interesting. Didn’t Finkelstein bitterly criticize Shmuel for reporting a similar number.

    • Shmuel says:
      July 10, 2012 at 4:08 am

      Didn’t Finkelstein bitterly criticize Shmuel for reporting a similar number.

      The honour was David Samel’s, not mine, but yes.

    • David Samel says:
      July 11, 2012 at 5:41 pm

      Toivo, in addition to this number from 2007, and Netanyahu’s estimate of 650,000 from a year or so ago, there is this post from mondoweiss putting the number at 722,000 based upon an Israel source: link to mondoweiss.net So when I put the figure at 500 to 750,000, I was giving a broad range, supported by more than my imagination, that Finkelstein described as “preposterous.” Moreover, most of my post questioned NF’s claim regarding the ease with which 200,000 settlers (his figure) living on unswapped Palestinian could be repatriated within the green line. He never answered that at all.

      • ToivoS says:
        July 14, 2012 at 3:03 am

        Dear David

        I do not understand why Norman attacked you on this number. But I do think that most reasonable people agree with you on your estimate. I like Finkelstein and would hope that others like me would simply let him drift off into the sunset and become irrelevant.

        Regardss ToivoS

  9. braciole says:
    July 10, 2012 at 7:37 am

    The Arabists at the UK Border Agency seem to disagree with you that Palestine is not a country – look under P!.

    (I came across this via the Angry Arab but I’m not sure he understood how subversive this might be.)

  10. Mooser says:
    July 11, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Okay, I’ve been trying to explicate, to verbalise this thought for years, and I still can’t do it, but I’m gonna try. Now there are probably only a couple hundred thousand (at most, it may be even lower) Zionist Jews in the US who count. not because the in any way represent the others, but because they have the megaphone and the money and have no qualms about using the term “Jewish” in the names of their organisations. Try that with most any other religion and you will have the ‘home office’ on your butt in a NY minute. But nobody owns the word “Jewish” and anybody with the chutzpah to appropriate it can. So these few thousand Zionist Jews have become “the Jews”.
    If what I read is true, by this time, as a result of walk-aways, and out-marriage, could there be more ex-Jews in America than there are Jews? But of course, this exodus (whoops, sorry) is never counted. They just fall into a hole of silence. So when there are only 2500 Zionist Jews left in America, all kinds of “Jewish leaders” and “Jewish organisations” will still claim to speak “for the Jews” or for American Jews.
    Until somebody points that out (and as I said, I still can’t explicate it in an understandable way) and explores its implications, field will always belong to the Zionists. But who is going to point that out?

    • Philip Weiss says:
      July 11, 2012 at 12:42 pm

      the hole in this analysis is the deference that so many liberal Jews make to the neocons and Zionists out of corporate Jewish concerns, ie, that they are defending us, this is a Jewish interest, as Irving Kristol put it. Many groups fall into line when leaders compel them to do so. The effects of the Holocaust and being a small minority in the US have heightened this effect. So many liberal Jews are complicit in that takeover.

      • Mooser says:
        July 11, 2012 at 1:11 pm

        “the hole in this analysis is the deference that so many liberal Jews make to the neocons and Zionists out of corporate Jewish concerns, ie, that they are defending us, this is a Jewish interest”

        You mean, according to the Zionists, they do. But yes you have a point about “liberal Jews”. But I’m talking more about people who would be counted (if they ever are) as ex-Jews, and have no contact (or minimal, attending a wedding or Bar Mitzvah when invited) at all with organised Judaism or Zionism and in many cases, for two or three generations by now. I think there are actually more of them then there are actual active Jews, if we use a standard which any other religion would apply.
        Does that mean anything, that such a large proportion of Jews has voted “No” on the entire proposition?
        It does guarantee tha Zionists the large majority they claim, unless these people return to Judaism just to bolster their credibility as anti-Zionists (if they even are) which is not going to happen.
        But please, as I said, I can’t explain it yet, and also, I could be wrong, about there being more ex-Jews than Jews.
        And the elite committed Zionist Jews in the US would have that much influence on anything they put their minds to, no matter what religion they are because of the money and organisation. Don’t you always say that there are about twenty-five people who made the War on Iraq possible?
        Maybe all those ex-Jews know something the Gentiles haven’t figured out yet? You could expand their numbers to a frightening extent by simply including “inactive” (still identifying but not involved or practicing) Jews, couldn’t you?

        And again, this is subjective, I haven’t got the numbers to back it up, and I don’t know where to look, but it’s a hell of a situation. The only people who have less than no use for “Jewish leaders” are mostly Jews.

        Thanks for the considerate response.

      • Mooser says:
        July 11, 2012 at 1:16 pm

        “that so many liberal Jews”

        I’m not sure why you conflate the people I’m talking about with “liberal Jews”. They may not be liberal at all, in fact, by this time they or their children may be “born again” Christians. But if you looked, you would find the Jewish gene!

        • YoungMassJew says:
          July 11, 2012 at 2:33 pm

          I consider myself an “ethnic Jew” for lack of a better word. That is how many people identify me in the street, except when I’m in an Italian area and then they usually assume I’m Italian. I don’t know if there’s a “Jewish gene” Mooser, all I know is that despite my parents and grandparents, mainly my parents secular identity, they chose to marry fellow Jews. It’s not that they are ethnocentric towards others; they just were attached I guess romantically to other Jews and found their looks and personality appealing.

        • Theo says:
          July 12, 2012 at 9:28 am

          Mooser

          When goys marry jews, do they get jewish genes issued by the rabbi or only their children have this privilage?

  11. YoungMassJew says:
    July 12, 2012 at 1:40 am

    What’s so controversial about that statement that is takes 11 + hours to decide whether this is “anti-Semitic?” Okay, how about saying I look “Mediterranean.” Is that now not anti-Semitic? Now you won’t need to get the okay from Phil about my previous comment. Admit it. Some Jews are identifiable by appearance with no kipa required. That’s not anti-Semitic. I don’t mind the way I look.