Coptic Christian leader of organization that produced anti-Muslim film spoke at Pamela Geller’s anti-mosque rally

Israel/Palestine
on 296 Comments
Nasralla Joseph Nasralla Abdelmasih, on the far right, is the head of Media Christ, the organization behind the anti-Muslim film that sparked protests in the Middle East. To his left is Morris Sadek, an Egyptian-American anti-Muslim activist. (Photo: http://nacopts1.blogspot.com/)

This post has been updated to include a response from Pamela Geller. Scroll to the bottom to see the response.

The leader of the organization reportedly behind the anti-Muslim film sparking angry protests in the Middle East spoke at a rally opposing the Park 51 Islamic center in lower Manhattan last year. That rally, on September 11, 2010, was organized by Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer, two leading Islamophobic activists and bloggers in the U.S.

The California-based Press Telegram reports today that an organization called Media for Christ produced the Islamophobic film at the center of the controversy that has sparked widespread protests in the Middle East. The film, “Innocence of Muslims,” portrays the Prophet Muhammad as a womanizer, a gay man and a child abuser. Depictions of the Prophet are considered blasphemous to Muslims. 

The head of Media for Christ is Joseph Abdelmasih, the Press Telegram reports. On California’s Secretary of State page, Media for Christ is registered as a business entity with Joseph Nasralla Abdelmasih listed as the “agent for service of process.” Here’s a screenshot of the Secretary of State page:

CA SEC

Nasralla Abdelmasih is an Egyptian Coptic Christian. Some members of that community, which have experienced tensions with Muslims in Egypt, have thrown their lot in with virulent Islamophobes in the U.S. 

The Associated Press revealed more details of who was behind the film yesterday, after a day-long scramble. The AP originally reported that it was an Israeli Jewish person who made the film, but that was a false claim. Last night, the news service reported that Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, a Coptic Christian living in California, helped with the film.

It appears that Nakoula now had help from Abdelmasih.

Abdelmasih spoke at Geller’s and Spencer’s anti-mosque rally in Manhattan in 2010. The rally was organized to oppose the construction of the Park 51 Islamic center in lower Manhattan, a cause that attracted widespread media attention and led to other high-profile battles against the construction of mosques in the U.S.

“Wake up America!” said Abdelmasih, to a crowd of flag-waving Americans. He said the mosque will be built “over my dead body.” Here’s video of his address:

Ironically, the crowd at the anti-mosque rally first thought that Abdelmasih and his partner were Muslim ”infiltrators trying to disrupt the event,” as a letter Abdelmasih sent to Geller and Spencer read. The letter was published on Spencer’s Jihad Watch website.

Nasralla Abdelmasih has also worked with Steve Klein, the right-wing Christian extremist who was a consultant on the film. Yesterday, Max Blumenthal reported that “in July 2011, Spencer’s website, Jihad Watch, promoted a rally Klein organized alongside the anti-Muslim Coptic extremist Joseph Nasrallah to demand the firing of LA County Sheriff Lee Baca, whom they painted as a dupe for Hamas.”

Pictured above with Nasralla Abdelmasih is Morris Sadek. Sadek, as Chris Toensing of Middle East Report notes, is “well known for risible exaggeration about the proportion of Copts in the Egyptian population and clumsy attempts to exploit Islamophobia in the West to ‘help’ his co-religionists in Egypt.”

Right Wing Watch has more on Sadek:

Sadek, who has worked with Jones in the past, says he is fighting for the rights of his fellow Coptic Christians in Egypt. Unfortunately he seems much more focused on attacking Muslims than helping the Copts. Sadek pulled his Facebook profile around 1 pm today, but we were able to take a look beforehand. Here’s what we found.

Sadek is a supporter of ACT! for America, which believes that President Obama has embraced the Muslim Brotherhood. The group rallied its supporters last month behind Michelle Bachmann’s anti-Muslim witch hunt against Huma Abedin and others. Here’s Sadek with ACT! For America president Brigitte Gabriel at one of the group’s 2010 events.

UPDATE: I e-mailed Pamela Geller to get her response to the fact that the leader of Media for Christ spoke at her anti-mosque rally in 2010. Here’s her response:

This story identifies someone else, Nakoula Nakoula, as the person behind the film:

http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-us-identifies-anti-muslim-filmmaker-144325233.html

So are you really sure of your assertions here? Facts matter. Is it your intention to put innocent human rights activists in the cross-hairs of savage jihadists?

In any case, whether or not Joseph Nassralla was involved in this film, it doesn’t matter, because the film itself doesn’t matter. It was not the cause of these riots and murders. The film was on YouTube for months before the Muslim rage over it began, and that rage was clearly carefully planned and orchestrated. The film is just a pretext to justify the violence and intimidate the West into adopting Sharia restrictions on the freedom of speech, so that jihad can advance unimpeded and unopposed in the West. And you, by focusing on the film and demonizing the filmmakers, are abetting that.

About Alex Kane

Alex Kane is a freelance journalist and graduate student at New York University's Near East Studies and Journalism programs. Follow him on Twitter @alexbkane.

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296 Responses

  1. Annie Robbins
    September 13, 2012, 12:37 pm

    you nailed it alex, you’re such a pro.

    • American
      September 13, 2012, 2:25 pm

      ditto Alex…excellent job, excellent.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 13, 2012, 4:27 pm

        killer update! geller writes alex:

        The film is just a pretext to justify the violence and intimidate the West into adopting Sharia restrictions on the freedom of speech, so that jihad can advance unimpeded and unopposed in the West.

        uh huh ms geller, i’m so sure any minute now sharia restrictions might advance unimpeded and unopposed in the west if not for your leadership on this issue.

        just curious, what do you sprinkle on your cheerios in the morning?

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 13, 2012, 5:09 pm

        The other thing about Geller and these riots is the fact that the only thing which prevented her and the piggies who showed up at her little Park 51 Hate-fest from torching the building was the presence of police. In a lot of these places where these riots occur, there is no such police presence, due to their poverty, so the same intense feelings that never gets past the stand-up-at-the-mike-and-scream-like-a-harpy stage in this Country get out of hand in the poorer countries.

      • Bing Bong
        September 14, 2012, 11:26 am

        So a lack of policing in some impoverished Muslim states leads to angry rioting? No other reasons?

      • Mondowise
        September 14, 2012, 11:36 am

        annie, just a hunch…geller sprinkles her cheerios with narcissus :-)

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 14, 2012, 12:21 pm

        “So a lack of policing in some impoverished Muslim states leads to angry rioting? No other reasons?”

        Sure, there are a lot of other reasons. For example, many of these countries are poor as a result of being pawns in the game of international neo-liberal economics being played by the moneyed classes that control the West and much of the world. (And that’s when the oppression isn’t paid for and direct by the US and it’s “friends” as was the case in Mubarak-era Egypt). As a consequence, these countries have the triple whammy of (1) a large people with no hope to better their lives or their children’s lives as a consequence of economic activiites that benefits the fatcats on Wall Street and board rooms around the globe, (2) a natural and understandable, if misguided, attachment to things like religion in order to give meaning to their lives, and (3) poverty, which results in both an excess of, essentially, unemployed people and a lack of police protection. That creates a tinderbox when the people they rightly perceive as causing some, most or all of their material woes attack the thing that they still have and value, in a context where, if things get out of hand, there is no policing present to contain it.

        The notion that there is something specific and particular about Islam or the Muslim world that can be drawn from these event is rank racism. The fact is that there’ve been similar situations in other “western” countries like the US and israel (remember the anti-immigrant pograms in the greater Jaffa Metro Area?) which did not end up as these events did, because those countries have trained police to stop them from escalating.

        I don’t know if you witnessed, first hand, Pam Geller’s little Park51 lynch mob. But if you don’t believe that those people, if given the chance, would not have burned down that building on that day, you are out of your mind. I saw the look in their faces. They would have done it in a heartbeat.

      • LanceThruster
        September 14, 2012, 3:49 pm

        Wonderfully cutting analysis. When these things are looked only through the lens of the tired old paradigms, we continue to distort and misread what is actually going on. It’s both sickening and contributing to the toxins that build up over time until the next eruption.

      • Citizen
        September 14, 2012, 10:12 pm

        You’re right, Woody. Both here, and there. “It is class warfare, and we won.”

      • Annie Robbins
        September 15, 2012, 1:24 am

        ha! narcissus .. just read that mondo, good one.

      • stevieb
        September 15, 2012, 10:42 am

        Excellent comment…

  2. seanmcbride
    September 13, 2012, 12:41 pm

    Why can’t the mainstream media, with all their resources, do this kind of research?

    • Kathleen
      September 13, 2012, 1:50 pm

      Let’s hope the story does not change again tomorrow. How is all of this verified? Will the Dept of Justice hold those responsible (who ever they are) for this hate crime? Those that produced, funded and acted in this piece of dangerous trash?

      • Carowhat
        September 14, 2012, 12:12 am

        In America, thanks to the First Amendment, we usually do not prosecute people for political speech, though, as your post indicated, some of us do not really endorse constitutionally protected free speech. Just because you call something hate speech doesn’t mean the constitution doesn’t protect it.

      • Kathleen
        September 14, 2012, 11:52 pm

        Say what? Hate crime. Inciting riots and undermining U.S. National Security. You may have heard the Dept of Justice is investigating this hate crime

      • Carowhat
        September 15, 2012, 3:23 am

        Yes I have heard that the DOJ is investigating this movie but all that proves is Eric Holder, like you, doesn’t believe in free speech either.

        By the way, you may not have noticed but Google has refused to take this video off of YouTube. Unlike the Justice Department they apparent still believe that people in this country still have the right to express “different opinions.”

      • hophmi
        September 16, 2012, 9:40 am

        When Alex Kane talks of “tensions” between Copts and Muslims in Egypt, I have to wonder who hes’s working for. The Muslims persecute the Copts, plain and simple. And it’s gotten worse since the fall of Mubarak.

        It seems many people here have a vested interest in connecting Jews to this video. That says a lot about the priorities of Mondoweiss members. Not to mention that Kathleen still apparently does not understand what incitement is.

    • Ellen
      September 13, 2012, 2:07 pm

      Investigative Journalism is no longer funded. They need copy for the 15 min news cycle. That is why some alternative media is gaining.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 13, 2012, 2:19 pm

        adam and phil fund it.

    • Henry Norr
      September 13, 2012, 2:24 pm

      Seanmcbride wrote: “Why can’t the mainstream media, with all their resources, do this kind of research?”

      It’s not often that I speak up in defense of the MSM, but in this case it’s the AP that’s leading the way with this story, and now the Long Beach Press-Telegram has added some new details, and they’re about as mainstream as it gets. I appreciate that Alex, Max, and other bloggers are adding useful background, context, links, etc., but so far it’s the MSM folks who’ve done the real investigative work here.

      The big question that no one, mainstream or otherwise, has yet addressed is where the money came from. It probably wasn’t the $5 million “Bacile” originally claimed, but it’s not cheap to hire actors, rent a studio, etc., and from what we know of Nakoula and Abdelmasih, it seems pretty doubtful they’d have had the resources to do it.

      As to why the AP and WSJ originally went with the Bacile story, again I find myself defending them. After the attack in Benghazi they were suddenly dealing with an urgent story, and Sam Bacile, as the name on the You Tube upload, was a primary person of interest. Once they succeeded in tracking him down, and he acknowledged a role in making the film and added a bunch of details, it makes sense to me, as a former reporter, that they reported what he told them, rather than holding the story up pending research into his background. At least in the case of the AP, they obviously moved right on to investigating his claims, and they appear to have done a good job with that, and within a few hours they put out the follow-up piece about what they’d found. That’s the way the AP at its best works – multiple updates as a story unfolds.

      So from my point of view it’s not fair to slam them for not knowing everything from the beginning. The question is whether they’ll keep digging into the story and find out who was behind these crazy Copts, or let it drop and leave the impression that they alone are responsible.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 13, 2012, 2:35 pm

        The big question that no one, mainstream or otherwise, has yet addressed is where the money came from.

        on the tax form grant just posted it said something about ‘too many people donating impossible to list’ or something like that.

      • Philip Munger
        September 13, 2012, 2:52 pm

        ‘too many people donating impossible to list’ or something like that

        — let’s hope we get more detail on the funding of this operation than that.

        You have the money for the initial concept, the money for production (including scale pay for actors, techs, etc.), the production, editing and post-production costs, the trailer costs, and whatever. There seems to have been a year-long dormant period between filming in August, 2011, and posting of the English and Arabic language versions recently. So there are a lot of places where money has been dropped over about an 18-month period.

        Granted, this thing makes an Ed Wood movie look like Cecille B. DeMille, but there is a long money trail, if not very deep.

      • irmep
        September 13, 2012, 3:01 pm

        Annie is right–the money trail is now the real question.

        The Schedule B list of contributors would at least reveal the dollar figures of contributions of over $5,000. From their revenue curve, I’d guess that a small number of donors suddenly made large contributions.

        To get their Schedule B, it’ll take a few weeks soliciting it from the IRS, which will censor the donor names.

        If a foundation funded this, that might be available from the Foundation Center database.

      • ColinWright
        September 13, 2012, 3:52 pm

        irmep says: ‘Annie is right–the money trail is now the real question.’

        If you do find the money trail, it’ll only be because it doesn’t go anywhere.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 13, 2012, 4:32 pm

        to be accurate, it was henry who originally posed that question. i just responded to it. naturally i agree tho. follow the money!

      • ritzl
        September 13, 2012, 8:47 pm

        @irmep, Annie, Can I help you all get this info and/or wade through this money trail in some way? I think my email is available through the site.

        FWIW.

      • Kathleen
        September 13, 2012, 10:19 pm

        Who funded has to come out

      • Annie Robbins
        September 13, 2012, 10:54 pm

        ritzl, just keep on the lookout, if you find anything that might be of interest send it to one of us at our addresses on the about page. thanks!

      • ritzl
        September 15, 2012, 5:31 pm

        @Annie OK, will do, to the extent I can.

        TBH, I was hoping for a more tasked approach (I have no idea where to start getting access to relevant docs, but I do have the ability to sort through them), to amplify your/MW’s ability to sort through, as irmep implied, a copious amount of paperwork related to this.

        I don’t want to duplicate your efforts… There’s so few of us.

      • lysias
        September 13, 2012, 3:00 pm

        The key was the recent overdubbing in Arabic. Who did that? Who funded it? When was it done? Was it done with the deliberate purpose of inciting violence and making trouble for Obama’s campaign?

      • Taxi
        September 14, 2012, 12:27 am

        “The key was the recent overdubbing in Arabic. Who did that?”

        I’m just remembering right now some 4 years ago I drove a christian Palestinian student friend of mine to the Los Angeles Valley for a job interview at a recording studio. They were looking for an Arabic speaker with a good speaking voice to do some overdubs. I dropped her off and waited in the carpark and some thirty minutes later my friend returned in a somber mood. It turned out that some proselytizing christian group had sought out several muslim converts to christianity in Afghanistan, Egypt and India and filmed them “in hiding” talking about their conversion, especially the difficulties they’ve encountered with their families etc and why they preferred jesus to mohammad. My friend was told that these were “educational” videos for churches in the middle east. My friend was then asked to take an Arabic overdub recording test using translated testimonies, which she did, but then she walked out half-way through as she felt that the material she was asked to overdub was extremely “insensitive and offensive” to moslems, and that the whole project had more to do with islamophobia than with love of jesus and the spreading of the ‘good word’.

        We couldn’t believe it! Right there in the Valley, home of the global porn industry, some studio was indulging in islamophobic activism.

        On the way there we were laughing and saying that she might be the voice-dub of Julia Roberts or Meryl Streep. The ad she’d responded to mentioned nothing of churches or mosques or religion.

        Driving her back to her UCLA campus, my friend looked dim-spirited. “Don’t worry, you’ll find another job”, I said. “Not worried about that”, she replied. “These people at the studio are weird and now I feel weird that I met them. Our christians are very different to your christians”, she added, “your christians hate for the love of jesus, me and my family in Palestine just love jesus”.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 14, 2012, 1:55 am

        “your christians hate for the love of jesus, me and my family in Palestine just love jesus”.

        wow, i love your comments taxi

      • stevieb
        September 14, 2012, 11:42 am

        Believe me – it’s fair to slam them. Alot. AP has a history of trying to pass off Zio-propaganda as news. Not saying that they were wrong here, but they deserve any hassle they get, imo…

    • LanceThruster
      September 13, 2012, 5:34 pm

      Since the answer is that they can, they question becomes…why don’t they?

  3. lysias
    September 13, 2012, 12:42 pm

    This isn’t going to be good for the Copts in Egypt, I’m afraid.

    So why did whoever he was claim to be Bacile and to be an Israeli-American who had gotten $5 million from 100 American Jews, and why did the AP and the Wall Street Journal go with the story?

    • MLE
      September 13, 2012, 1:09 pm

      Because he wanted thm to attack the Israeli embassy as well causing even more problems.

      • American
        September 13, 2012, 2:36 pm

        MLE says:

        Because he wanted thm to attack the Israeli embassy as well causing even more problems.>>>>>>

        I don’t think so given that the film makers have some ties evidently with the Geller, etc. gang.
        It may be they claimed a Jewish connection thinking that made them safer or less likely to be looked at wrong in the US than if they claimed some Coptic christian connection not many people know anything about so may not sympathize with.
        Like me for instance…I know nothing about coptic christians.

        And then also anti Muslim-Islam-Arab is most closely associated with some Israel and Jewish orgs so they might have thought claiming a Israeli Jewish origin would draw even more people and attention to the film.

      • TomAmitaiUSA
        September 13, 2012, 11:22 pm

        Israeli embassy where? Do they have a diplomatic presence in any Arab or predominantly Muslim countries?

        Why would Geller balk at endangering Israeli lives, when the Israeli government itself has announced their willingness to accept 500 Israeli civilian casualties in a war with Iran?

    • tokyobk
      September 13, 2012, 1:18 pm

      Jews are a good story for different reasons for all sides.

    • Annie Robbins
      September 13, 2012, 1:39 pm

      and why did the AP and the Wall Street Journal go with the story?

      what leads bleeds. my hunch is that higher ups, at least in the state department, were well aware of the implications of Zawahiri’s announcement and the 9/11 connection is a little hard to ignore. so, by bypassing on releasing what they knew and the news releasing a replay of news similar to the norway cartoon (muslims go wild over movie) it feeds into a narrative that is very very different than ‘revenge for drone attacks’ narrative.

      last night when i was thinking about the stevens death it occurred to me how he was directly related supporting ‘opposition movement’ link to washingtonpost.com 4/11″explore ways to open the funding spigots for an opposition movement that is desperately short of cash and supplies, a State Department spokesman said Tuesday.”

      iow, he was instrumental in facilitating these very people, many foreigners, in destabilizing libya exactly like we’ve been doing in syria. and it is the communities of these people we are killing with drones. so maybe the message someone doesn’t want americans to hear is ‘the death of stevens is directly related to the scores of people we kill indiscriminately all across the ME’. so we get this respite of ‘crazy muslims’ for awhile until the real news breaks, just to get some milage out of it. when all evidence points to a very professional job.

      btw, it’s happening in yemen now, the storming of the embassy or something.

      • MRW
        September 13, 2012, 4:24 pm

        it is the communities of these people we are killing with drones. so maybe the message someone doesn’t want americans to hear is ‘the death of stevens is directly related to the scores of people we kill indiscriminately all across the ME’.

        Yeah, the incredible immorality of it be damned.

      • Kathleen
        September 13, 2012, 10:21 pm

        Think you are spot on Annie

    • Kathleen
      September 13, 2012, 1:51 pm

      good questions

    • Ellen
      September 13, 2012, 2:15 pm

      Good question, lysias.

      It is because a Journalist got the guy on the phone and repeated what he told her/him for the report. The journalist wanted to get the “scoop” out before doing homework on the credibility of the information. But initial reports also had the caveats.

      Other media just picked it up and repeated it.

      That is why from the start, that the true identity was not clear was a given.

      So the Islamophobes/hate groups are Christians and Jews, (and some who just love a good fight?) each with their own agenda.

      What is tragic is that these groups have had simply too much influence on the public discourse in the US. That may soon be coming to an end.

      Insane as the insulters and the always insulted may be to us, it is there and always will be.

      I wonder though: There is a congressional task force (or something like that) on what is called “antisemitism.” Shouldn’t that include hate speech against all groups?

      • TomAmitaiUSA
        September 13, 2012, 11:26 pm

        I’m sure that’s in the works, along with a series of hearings into fundy Christian white supremacist infiltrators in the US military. ;)

      • Annie Robbins
        September 14, 2012, 2:07 am

        I’m sure that’s in the works

        i hope so, long time coming if it’s true.

      • stevieb
        September 14, 2012, 11:51 am

        Zionism has too much influence – these fringe Christian groups are being used to legitimize the Zionist agenda and are being brought into the public sphere through it’s domination of the media – and the economic sphere..you’d never here anything about them if it wasn’t for their racist views and support of Israel…

    • ColinWright
      September 13, 2012, 3:50 pm

      lysias says: ‘This isn’t going to be good for the Copts in Egypt, I’m afraid.’

      Now who would not be disturbed by that?

    • radii
      September 13, 2012, 5:41 pm

      “So why did whoever he was claim to be Bacile and to be an Israeli-American who had gotten $5 million from 100 American Jews, and why did the AP and the Wall Street Journal go with the story?”

      lysias,

      global media went with it because, at first blush, it seemed plausible on its face – within israel there is vicious open racism and anti-muslim feeling and demonstrations of those feelings, particularly among the young and right-wing, so the sentiment is already there – and it was neat-and-tidy with a name, the funding source and an implicit why

      … these right-wing Christo-fascist extremists behind the film clearly intended to throw the anger which resulted from their overdubbing and editing grossly-offensive-to-many-muslims words and imagery off their scent or to compound the reaction by casting aspersions upon israel and jews (or both)

      • seanmcbride
        September 13, 2012, 11:21 pm

        radii,

        If Christian extremists tried to falsely cast blame for this movie on Jews and Israelis, that would be a serious matter indeed. It’s important to get to the bottom of this story.

        Some of the conspiracy speculations I’ve seen here, which rely on few reliable data points, have gone off the deep end.

        Where is the smoking gun?

      • Abierno
        September 14, 2012, 5:07 pm

        This situation is a riddle, inside an enigma, inside a conundrum. The few
        reliable inferences that can be made include the fact that neither the felon nor the rabid islamaphobe had the intelligence to overdub this trailor in inflammatory Arabic rhetoric, to facilitate its going viral particularly in the middle east at the same time as 9/11 observations and Netanyahu’s blast of
        Obama being naive and impotent as regards military confrontation of Iran.
        Also, at the same time, the fallout includes the assassination (targeted?) of one of the strongest Arabists at the state department, buried in Jihadi chaos,
        but clearly planned. This is also at a time of intensity in the run up to US
        presidential elections – with Adelson, Romney and Netahyahu joined at the
        hip as regards the weakness of the current administration foreign policy in the middle east, particularly as regards military intervention in Syria and
        Iran.

        The questions I would like to see answered: Who benefits? from the attempt to split Copt and Arab in Egypt? the destablization of the emerging
        April spring democracies in Libya, Tunisia? the removal of a rising star in
        the state Department, who was not only fluent in Arabic but also well liked
        and trusted? Given that You Tube has strong policies regarding videos that can induce incitement and appears hypervigilant when Israel is the target,
        why was this video allowed to be posted and remain up – even after the Benghazi incident. Why is the mainstream media not emphasizing how hard
        the governments of the majority of the involved governments are working to provide safety and protection to US citizens, their profound apologies to
        our government – even though US levels of popularity are far from high?
        Again, while no one may ever know the exact details, one must carefully
        assess who benefits from these actions?

      • stevieb
        September 14, 2012, 11:52 am

        I have a very hard time believing that…

      • Annie Robbins
        September 15, 2012, 1:30 am

        yeah me too.

    • proudzionist777
      September 14, 2012, 1:44 am

      “So why did whoever he was claim to be Bacile and to be an Israeli-American who had gotten $5 million from 100 American Jews….”.

      To blame the film on the Jews?
      It’s called scapegoating. It’s worked well in the past and it’s alive and well on Mondoweiss.

      REPLY

      • stevieb
        September 14, 2012, 11:58 am

        Fair enough – but it wasn’t Mondoweiss that produced that story.

        Furthermore it can’t be scapegoating if it’s demonstrable that Zionist Jews have been at the forefront of producing these kind of films(‘Obsession’, e.g) as well as being the general architects of the Islamophobic hysteria gripping the wider Western media…

      • Annie Robbins
        September 15, 2012, 1:32 am

        it’s demonstrable that Zionist Jews have been at the forefront of producing these kind of films(‘Obsession’, e.g)

        when has the msm ever reported how many jews are behind that movie? they don’t say that. so why did they break their rules for this one?

      • proudzionist777
        September 15, 2012, 11:35 am

        Did ‘Obsession’ insult the prophet Mohammed? Did it insult Islam?

        Maybe you shouldn’t lump ‘these kinds of films’ together.

      • stevieb
        September 16, 2012, 11:39 am

        I’m not sure if it had any religious insults – it likely did(I haven’t seen it) – but for me, I’m quite comfortable lumping ‘these kinds of films together’ – they are made with the idea being to disgrace -through falsehoods and exaggerations – the Muslim religion. And it’s being done by Zionist extremists -you know the ones, those who claim that God gave Palestine to the Jews, and that gentiles aren’t worth the toenail on a a Jew(to paraphrase) – and other similar rubbish. Both of these films follow a similar M.O. Except maybe -maybe – this recent one was directed by a ‘Coptic Christian'(whatever that is), one who really needed the money apparently after recently being released from prison….go figure..but that might explain the poor quality of this current movie; simply calling Mohammed ‘gay’ and a ‘child molester’, they went right for the ad hominem jugular and didn’t bother with any pretense of investigative journalism..

      • stevieb
        September 16, 2012, 11:56 am

        Because the AP put that story out there to make the claim that Jews produced this movie look like an antisemitic ‘canard’…trying to ‘blame the Jews'(again)…Mondoweiss has already provided one link to this possiblity by showing the link between this ‘Coptic’ Christian and Zionist Islamophobes. Possibly…

  4. irmep
    September 13, 2012, 12:50 pm

    Very interesting indeed. Sam Bacile, aka Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, seems to be a red herring–just a petty criminal, taken down for identity theft and financial fraud in 2009.

    Glad to see MW piercing the veil….following the money.

    BTW, if the terms of Nakoula Basseley Nakoula’s parole prohibits him from assuming false identities or communicating over digital technology, I wonder why we haven’t heard of him returning to the slammer? Who’s pool is the red herring swimming in?

    • Abierno
      September 13, 2012, 2:08 pm

      Great investigative reporting – but this is only the tip of the iceberg. The timing, particularly of the Arabic dubbing and the posting on facebook, is too coincidental
      with other events.

  5. Elisabeth
    September 13, 2012, 1:16 pm

    I just hope no Copts are going to be lynched over this in Egypt.

  6. DICKERSON3870
    September 13, 2012, 1:26 pm

    RE: “Nasralla Abdelmasih is an Egyptian Coptic Christian. Some members of that community, which have experienced tensions with Muslims in Egypt, have thrown their lot in with virulent Islamophobes in the U.S.” ~ Alex Kane

    FOR A POSSIBLE SOURCE OF SOME OF THOSE TENSIONS, SEE:
    “Mubarak may have planned attack on Christians, Catholic leader says”, by John L Allen Jr, National Catholic Reporter, 2/23/11

    [EXCERPT] A Jan. 1 first bomb attack against Coptic Christians in Egypt which left 23 dead and almost a hundred wounded, widely blamed on Islamic fundamentalists, may have been orchestrated by an official in the former Mubarak regime in order to justify strengthening police controls, according to the head of the country’s Coptic Catholic church.
    Cardinal Antonios Naguib, the Coptic Catholic Patriarch of Alexandria, floats that hypothesis in a new interview with the prestigious Italian Catholic publication ’30 Giorni’.
    In the same interview, Naguib also warns that “diplomatic pressures, punitive initiatives or economic sanctions” from Western governments against Egypt in the name of defending the country’s Christians would constitute “the greatest harm that can be done to the Christians themselves.”
    In general, Naguib says the anti-Mubarak protest movement was marked by tremendous solidarity between Muslims and Christians, and is hopeful about the prospects for building “a civil and democratic country based on laws.”
    The Jan. 1 attack occurred just a few minutes into New Year’s Day, as Coptic Orthodox worshippers were participating in a midnight service at the Alexandria church of Saint Mark and Peter. Two weeks before the bombing an Islamist web site had called for attacks against Christian churches in Egypt, including the church that was struck on Jan. 1, and the Interior Ministry quickly blamed the Gaza-based “Army of Islam.”
    President Hosni Mubarak delivered a nationally televised address in the wake of the bombing blaming “foreign fingers” for the attack.
    Naguib, however, says there’s a long history of a connection between domestic anti-Mubarak agitation in Egypt and violence directed at Christians. In the 1980s and 1990s, he says, Christians were targeted by forces that wanted to bring down the regime, and when that failed, they began to attack the police and government officials.
    In light of that history, Naguib suggests, security forces grew accustomed to using attacks on Christians as a pretext to clamp down on opposition movements – an Egyptian version of the “strategy of tension” long associated with police states.
    “This has given weight to the hypothesis,” the Coptic Catholic leader says, “in circulation particularly among Christians, that the Minister of the Interior had planned the massacre of Alexandria to justify a strengthening of police controls.”
    Naguib suggests that Mubarak’s Minister of the Interior, at the time Habib Ibrahim el-Adly, encouraged the attack as a way of proving that “his person was essential for the president and the regime.” . . .

    ENTIRE ARTICLE – link to ncronline.org

    • DICKERSON3870
      September 13, 2012, 1:29 pm

      P.S. ALSO SEE: “‘Mission No. 77′: U.S. – Funded False Flag Terrorism in Egypt”, by William Norman Grigg, Deep Politics Monitor, 3/12/11

      [EXCERPT] Shortly after midnight on the morning of New Year’s Day, a green Skoda automobile pulled up outside the Saints Coptic Orthodox Church in Alexandria, Egypt. The vehicle decanted two men, one of whom was seen speaking tersely into a mobile phone as they walked briskly from the scene.
      A few minutes later a 100-kilogram bomb detonated inside the car, sending its densely packed, lethal payload of nails, glass and iron balls into the sanctuary. The explosion, which was powerful enough to shatter every window in the neighborhood, killed more than twenty worshipers gathered for New Year’s mass. Nearly a hundred more were seriously wounded. Body parts were propelled into the fourth floor of the church building and onto a neighboring mosque.
      An hour before the bomb went off, government security personnel assigned to guard the church quietly withdrew, despite official assurances that the force would be on hand until the end of the worship service. No explanation was given for this oddly timed dereliction of duty. After the bombing, a group of Muslim radicals quickly materialized to taunt the terrified and infuriated Christian victims with chants of “Allah akbar.” Armored riot police arrived shortly thereafter, firing rubber bullets and tear gas grenades to disperse the crowd.
      The immediate official story was that “foreign elements” – either al-Qaeda or the Israeli Mossad – were responsible for the atrocity. This explanation was immediately challenged by surviving eyewitnesses who had seen the security force withdrawn and the unidentified vehicle park in a cordoned-off “secure” area. Spokesmen for the long-suffering Coptic Christian population pointed out that on January 6, 2010, security had been withdrawn from a Coptic church in Nag Hammadi shortly before a drive-by shooting. Six Coptic Christians attending Christmas Eve mass, along with a Muslim security guard, were killed in the attack, and nine others were wounded. . .
      Three suspects were arrested by the police a few days after the atrocity in Nag Hammadi. The alleged ringleader, a career criminal named Mohammad Kammouni, was sentenced to death
      earlier this year by a special “state security” tribunal established under the post-1981 emergency law.
      Under that streamlined procedure, the verdict cannot be appealed, and – once the Grand Mufti ratifies the death sentence – Kammouni can be disposed of quickly and cleanly. This is a very tidy way to dispose of a Patsy.
      By the time of the New Year’s Eve bombing in Alexandria, a growing number of Egyptians – both Christian and Muslim – began to suspect that Mubarak’s U.S.-supported police state had cultivated a large pool of patsies to carry out false flag operations intended to foment sectarian conflict. If that was the design, things were working out as planned. . .

      ENTIRE ARTICLE – link to webabuser.blogspot.com

      • ColinWright
        September 15, 2012, 1:52 am

        Dickerson 3870 says:“…By the time of the New Year’s Eve bombing in Alexandria, a growing number of Egyptians – both Christian and Muslim – began to suspect that Mubarak’s U.S.-supported police state had cultivated a large pool of patsies to carry out false flag operations intended to foment sectarian conflict…”

        It’s telling how few of these sudden friends of the Copts were expressing their concern back when it was a US-backed dictatorship that was fomenting violence against them.

        Ditto for sudden friends of the Kurds, incidentally. I think the Lebanese Christians learned what friends like these are worth.

  7. Walid
    September 13, 2012, 1:49 pm

    It’s a shame Copts are involved in this mess. They’re already in deep shit in Egypt after their political leaders asked them to back the military against Morsi in the latest rumble between them and Morsi won that one. The Brothers and the Salafists already had an aversion to Egypt’s Christians and these 2 incidents will play against them to make their lives even more miserable.

  8. irmep
    September 13, 2012, 1:51 pm

    Media for Christ is a tax-exempt nonprofit. According to their 2011 IRS form 990, their revenues shot up from $47k in 2009 to just over a million in 2011. They spent $648,980 on TV/ recording production in 2011 (which seems about right given the cheesy production values and number of actors in “Innocence of Muslims.”

    link to IRmep.org

    Wonder who suddenly gave them the big (tax-deductible) bucks to make agit prop? And who the heck is Rania Mossad?

    • Annie Robbins
      September 13, 2012, 2:23 pm

      rania mossad? where did that name pop up? on the tax pdf?

      edit, never mind..i just saw that on pg 28 of the tax form. she’s a signer and ‘board member’

      • irmep
        September 13, 2012, 2:26 pm

        Yeah. Board member earning $26,400.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 13, 2012, 2:27 pm

        yeah thanks. very interesting factoid.

        link to facebook.com

        Cairo, Egypt

      • Kathleen
        September 13, 2012, 10:34 pm

        On tax form”Other Salaries and wages 93,000 . So they don’t have to be specific about where that money went and to whom?

        Geller claims the trashy trailer was up for months. Anyone know when it was put up on you tube?

      • David from California
        September 14, 2012, 1:50 am

        It was first posted on YouTube July 2nd of this year.

      • Egbert
        September 14, 2012, 7:08 pm

        She is also related to Joseph L Abdelmasih. A small world.

  9. LeaNder
    September 13, 2012, 1:51 pm

    Good work, Alex. I was expecting something on the topic from you. ;)

  10. DICKERSON3870
    September 13, 2012, 1:55 pm

    RE: “Nasralla Abdelmasih has also worked with Steve Klein, the right-wing Christian extremist who was a consultant on the film. Yesterday, Max Blumenthal reported that “in July 2011, Spencer’s website, Jihad Watch, promoted a rally Klein organized alongside the anti-Muslim Coptic extremist Joseph Nasrallah to demand the firing of LA County Sheriff Lee Baca, whom they painted as a dupe for Hamas.” ~ Alex Kane

    MORE FROM MAX BLUMENTHAL, 9/12/12:

    [EXCERPT] . . . Klein has been closely affiliated with the Church at Kaweah, an extreme evangelical church located 70 miles southeast of Fresno that serves as a nexus of neo-Confederate, Christian Reconstructionist, and militia movement elements. The Southern Poverty Law Center produced a report on Kaweah this spring that noted Klein’s long record of activist against Muslims:
    Over the past year, Johnson and the [Kaweah] church militia have developed a relationship with Steve Klein, a longtime religious-right activist who brags about having led a “hunter killer” team as a Marine in Vietnam. Klein, who calls Islam a “penis-driven religion” and thinks Los Angeles Sheriff Lee Baca is a Muslim Brotherhood patsy, is allied with Christian activist groups across California. In 2011, as head of the Concerned Citizens for the First Amendment, he worked with the Vista, Calif.-based Christian Anti-Defamation Commission on a campaign to “arm” students with the “truth about Islam and Muhammad” — mainly by leafleting high schools with literature depicting the Prophet Mohammed as a sex-crazed pedophile.
    Klein, based in Hemet, Calif., has been active in extremist movements for decades. In 1977, he founded Courageous Christians United, which now conducts “respectful confrontations” outside of abortion clinics, Mormon temples and mosques. Klein also has ties to the Minuteman movement. In 2007, he sued the city of San Clemente for ordering him to stop leafleting cars with pamphlets opposing illegal immigration.

    Like many other activists who fashion themselves as “counter-Jihadists,” Klein has organized against the construction of mosques in his area. While leafleting against a planned mosque in Temecula, California, which he claimed would herald the introduction of Shariah law to the quiet suburb, Klein remarked, “It all comes down to the first amendment. I don’t care if you disagree with me. Just don’t cut off my head.”
    Klein appears to be allied with the National American Coptic Assembly, a radical Islamophobic group headed by Morris Sadik. . .

    SOURCE – link to maxblumenthal.com

    • DICKERSON3870
      September 13, 2012, 2:14 pm

      P.S. RE: “The Southern Poverty Law Center produced a report on Kaweah this spring . . .” ~ Max Blumenthal (above)

      SEE: “Church at Kaweah Spreads Hateful, Militant Christian Views”, By Leah Nelson, So. Poverty Law Ctr., Spring 2012

      [EXCERPT] In a 22-acre compound at the southern edge of Sequoia National Park in California, a secretive cohort of militant Christian fundamentalists is preparing for war. One of the men helping train the flock in the art of combat, a former Marine named Steve Klein, believes that California is riddled with Muslim Brotherhood sleeper cells “who are awaiting the trigger date and will begin randomly killing as many of us as they can.”
      “I know I’m getting prepared to shoot back,” Klein says.
      At the head of the Church at Kaweah is Pastor Warren Mark Campbell, who sees yet another enemy on the horizon: the “New World Order,” that chimera of the conspiracists who populate the resurgent, antigovernment “Patriot” movement.
      The tiny church has been well outside the mainstream since the early 1990s, when founding pastor Warren Lee Campbell (father of the current pastor) bought into the notion that churches should shun all government regulation and answer solely to God. Since then, the church has become increasingly radical, ramping up its paramilitary activities and forging alliances with an array of figures revered on the radical right — among them, militia and Patriot leaders, white supremacists, neo-Confederates, border vigilantes and Christian Reconstructionists, whose goal is to turn America into a theocracy based on the Old Testament. In the meantime, the church’s militia has gone from patrolling the banks of the Kaweah River to conducting joint exercises with Minuteman groups along the Mexican border.
      The church’s ideology, which it defines as a “militant Christian separatist worldview,” seems to blend several far-right ideas and prejudices — borrowing heavily from the “unregistered churches” and Patriot movements, both of which reject government authority.
      It’s a combustible mix of guns, extreme antigovernment politics and religious extremism that brings to mind another Christian militia that made news recently — the Hutaree. In 2010, nine members of that Michigan-based group were charged with conspiring to murder numerous police officers in hopes of sparking a revolution against the government.
      “What is remarkable here is the openness with which they speak of religious war to advance God’s laws and God’s government,” said Frederick Clarkson, an independent journalist and expert on the religious right. “Less surprising is that the war is to be waged against the government and the usual stew of far-right enemies — although, clearly, Muslims seem to have replaced Communists as the most fearsome, frontline Satanic soldiers said to be creeping over the border and into society.” . . .

      ENTIRE REPORT – link to splcenter.org

      • American
        September 13, 2012, 3:15 pm

        I have seen maybe one article on the religious militants and the white supremacist in the last month…..one article on how they are infiltrating the military……more attention should be paid to these crazies.
        2 years ago I ran into a group these militants out in the county. I had pulled up into the yard of a trailer house right off the road to ask some directions to where someone lived, walked up on the porch where a guy was sitting and bam!…..hostile, hostile, hostile…. very suspicious of me, asked why I wanted know, who I was, etc.. I could see into the open trailer door where he had a bank of computers going. I tried to tamp down atmosphere and make an exit and the guy started going on about government and God . On the way back I passed by his place again and there were a dozen trucks and men in the yard……gave my car a hard look as I went by. Had the feeling that if they had been there when I first stopped I might have been in a situation if I had said the wrong thing.

      • DICKERSON3870
        September 13, 2012, 11:59 pm

        RE: “On the way back I passed by his place again and there were a dozen trucks and men in the yard……gave my car a hard look as I went by. Had the feeling that if they had been there when I first stopped I might have been in a situation if I had said the wrong thing.” ~ American

        MY REPLY: Don’t be silly, American. You’re obviously imagining things! Them boys probably just thought you had a mighty “purdy” mouth and wanted to make some “offerings”.
        Now “squeal like a pig” ! ! !

        • You have a purdy mouth - link to urbandictionary.com

        • Squeal Like A Pig* (Deliverance, 1972) [VIDEO, 04:45] – link to youtube.com

        * P.S. This couldn’t happen to a more deserving fundie than Jon Voight!

      • DICKERSON3870
        September 14, 2012, 12:50 am

        P.P.S. “This [the Deliverance (1972) ordeal] couldn’t happen to a more deserving fundie than Jon Voight!” – me (above)

        • FOR SOME “TOTALLY EXCELLENT” ADVENTURES IN FUNDIELAND, SEE WIKIPEDIA [Jon Voight]:

        (EXCERPTS) . . . On April 27, 2007, [Jon] Voight spoke about criticism of George W. Bush in an interview with Bill O’Reilly on The O’Reilly Factor: “And they — what I hear, you know, talking about our president. When I hear people saying quite unthinkable things about our president, when I see our president defaced, which is defacing our country. He’s the leader of our country. He’s the leader of the free world. It — my heart is very heavy.”[14]
        Voight endorsed former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani for the 2008 Republican Party nomination. He contacted Giuliani’s California finance chairperson and asked to work on the campaign. According to The New York Times, his role in Giuliani’s group “brought some high-wattage celebrity to a campaign that was in distress.” He worked a variety of supporting side roles in the Florida primary, such as warming up crowds. He stated on that trail that New York City had become a much safer city in the 1990s, once remarking, “God sent an angel; his name was Rudy Giuliani.”[15] In another interview in Miami with AventuraUSA.com, Voight said he first met Giuliani “years ago” at a movie premiere in New York City and the main reason for his support was Giuliani’s public poise in the wake of the September 11 attacks.[16]
        In March 2008, Voight appeared at a rally aboard the USS Midway in San Diego, California, for the kick-off of Vets for Freedom’s National Heroes Tour.[17] In an April 11, 2008, interview on the CNN Headline News Glenn Beck Show Voight stated that he had thrown his support to Republican Senator John McCain for President.[18]
        In May 2008, Voight paid a solidarity visit to Israel in honor of its 60th birthday. “I’m coming to salute, encourage and strengthen the people of Israel on this joyous 60th birthday,” said Voight. “This week is about highlighting Israel as a moral beacon. At a time when its enemies threaten nuclear destruction, Israel heals.”[19] On July 28, 2008, he wrote an editorial in The Washington Times critical of then-Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama.[12] Also in the article, Voight accused four-star General and former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO Wesley Clark of having “shame upon him, having been relieved of his command”[20] and said that Clark “has done their ['the Obama camp's'] bidding and become a lying fool in his need to demean a fellow soldier and a true hero.”[20] In August 2011, Voight visited terror victims at Soroka Medical Center in the Negev after attacks from Gaza.[21]
        In September 2008, Voight appeared in a video from the Republican National Convention admonishing viewers to support the United States military.
        He also provided the narration for a video biography of Alaska governor Sarah Palin, the Republican vice-presidential nominee, that appeared on McCain’s campaign website. Voight was a guest at the 2008 Republican National Convention.
        On June 8, 2009, Voight hosted a Republican congressional fundraiser, and he also made his own speech within the event, criticizing President Obama. Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich praised Voight’s speech.[22] McConnell told Voight about his speech: “I really enjoyed that.”[23] On June 10, 2009, on the topic of Voight’s fundraiser speech, Glenn Beck told Voight in a radio interview: “It’s good not to be alone. It’s good not to be alone.”[24] In a June 13, 2009, article, New York Times columnist Frank Rich said of Voight’s speech, in which Voight called to “bring an end to this false prophet Obama,” that: “This kind of rhetoric, with its pseudo-Scriptural call to action, is toxic.”[25]
        When appearing on Governor Mike Huckabee’s Fox News talk show, Voight said Obama was arrogant, caused civil unrest and stood for all that this country was against during its past. He went on to state:
        “I’m here to validate all the millions of people who are opposed to the Obama healthcare. We’re witnessing a slow and steady takeover of our true freedoms. We’re becoming a socialist nation, and Obama is causing civil unrest in this country … The stimulus didn’t work … We’re being told what cars we can drive, how much we can make … Obama has made this [healthcare] a personal crusade now … As we can see it really is about him. He [Obama] is arrogant and he’s adamant that he’s going to get this [healthcare] passed … He’s trying everything, even the so-called God card. If you love God, he tells us, then it’s your duty to vote this healthcare bill in … They’re taking away God’s first gift to man. Our free will.”[26]
        Voight’s comments drew harsh criticism from The Dallas Morning News columnist Rod Dreher, whose article appeared in the Minneapolis Star-Tribune on September 16, 2009. Wrote Dreher:[27]
        Last weekend, I tuned into a Fox program hosted by the avuncular former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, of whom I am a fan. There sat actor Jon Voight, staring gravely at the host, who praised the thespian’s “courage.” … Voight then accused the president of trying to depose God and deify himself — as, according to the Book of Revelation, the Antichrist will do. It may sound ridiculous — after all, who looks to celebrities for political wisdom? — but it’s deadly serious to millions of Americans. To his great discredit, Huckabee, a pastor, let this crazy talk pass unchallenged.
        In a letter released on September 11, 2009, Voight accused his former Coming Home co-star, Jane Fonda, of “aiding and abetting those who seek the destruction of Israel”.[28] Fonda was one of more than 50 celebrities who signed an online petition letter by John Greyson in which Greyson said he would pull his film Covered from the Toronto International Film Festival in protest over the Festival’s “inaugural City-to-City Spotlight on Tel Aviv”.[29] Greyson’s belief was that the spotlight on Tel Aviv would mean that the Festival was facilitating a propaganda campaign for the Israeli government.[28][29]
        Voight’s letter said in part:
        … people like Jane Fonda and all the names on that letter are assisting the Palestinian propagandists against the State of Israel. … Jane Fonda’s whole idea of the ‘poor Palestinians,’ and ‘look how many Palestinians the Israelis killed in Gaza,’ is misconstrued. Does she not remember what actually took place in Gaza? Did Israel not give the Palestinians of Gaza the hope that there could be peace?
        In response, did Hamas not launch rockets from Gaza into Israel, killing many innocent people? This seems to me to be another one of Jane Fonda’s misplaced ‘patriotic’ duties toward the wrong people. I was in Israel. I saw the rockets coming down on Sderot, and visited many families who lost their loved ones. How long can a democratic country keep from defending itself? Time and again, [Israel] offered the Palestinians land. They always refused. They don’t want a piece of the pie, they want the whole pie. They will not be happy until they see Israel in the sea.[28] . . .

        SOURCE – link to en.wikipedia.org

    • ColinWright
      September 13, 2012, 4:00 pm

      “…Klein, who calls Islam a “penis-driven religion” …”

      That strikes me as the sort of remark that may tell us more about Klein than about Islam.

      • DICKERSON3870
        September 14, 2012, 1:06 am

        RE: “. . . Klein, who calls Islam a ‘penis-driven religion’ . . . – That strikes me as the sort of remark that may tell us more about Klein than about Islam.” ~ ColinWright

        MY REPLY: Yes, I think Freud would have some very interesting things to say about Steve Klein’s obsession with what he fantasizes to be the fetishistic “penis-driven religion” of Islam! ! !
        In point of fact, I think I can almost hear Mr. Klein squealing like a “pig in heat” (so to speak)! ! !

        • Squeal Like A Pig (Deliverance, 1972) [VIDEO, 04:45] – link to youtube.com

      • ColinWright
        September 14, 2012, 2:15 am

        People do believe the most amazing things about Islam.

        As part of my extra-Mondoweiss internet life I often chat with an conservative Christian from Alabama.

        He’s perfectly intelligent and in general quite well informed. And yet, several years ago, I had quite a job getting him to grant that Muslims did not worship the moon. He was convinced they did.

      • DICKERSON3870
        September 14, 2012, 10:00 pm

        RE: “. . . I often chat with an conservative Christian from Alabama. . . I had quite a job getting him to grant that
        Muslims did not worship the moon. He was convinced they did.” ~ ColinWright

        SPOKEN IN A ZOMBIE-LIKE MANNER:
        “I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible.”
        “I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible.”
        “I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible.”
        “I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible.”
        “I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible.”
        “I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible.”
        “I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible.”

        [ad nauseam]

      • ColinWright
        September 15, 2012, 1:55 am

        Dickerson3870 says: ““I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible.”
        “I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible.”
        “I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible.”
        [ad nauseam]“

        No…that’s just it. He’s not like that. However, he did seriously believe the most arrant nonsense about Islam.

  11. Citizen
    September 13, 2012, 2:20 pm

    Any way I look at it, Americans need to know more about what happens to Christians in both Muslim countries and Israel. This data must be fed to the Christian end-timers in the USA. Let those chips fall where they may.

    • Walid
      September 13, 2012, 3:53 pm

      “Americans need to know more about what happens to Christians in both Muslim countries and Israel.” (Citizen)

      You will probably get your wish by Saturday night, Citizen, Pope Benedict XVI will be in Beirut for 3 days starting Friday and on Saturday, he will be delivering the Irchad (Apostolic Exhortation) concluded in most part from the Bishops’ Synod of 2010. It will discuss the state of Christianity in the Middle East, the illegal occupation of Palestine, the exodus of Christians from the ME, and he will talk about the conflict in Syria. All 18 official religious communities in Lebanon welcome the Pope’s visit, except for one minor unofficial group, the Salafists. It is hoped that the Pope will come out with 2 of the important conclusions to the Bishops’ Synod about the holy scriptures not having said anything about Israel belonging to the Jews and that all the people in the world are the chosen people and not just the Jews. If he does, expect a tsunami of complaints from Israel and the rest of the Zionists.

    • bilal a
      September 13, 2012, 4:42 pm

      Copts have a socio-economically priviledged position in Egypt which is resented , and in my experience personally, they often behave aggressivlely to the majority culture. Tjere are honor killings of coptic women that convert to islam m or mayy Muslims. Their historical priviledge stems in some part from their alliance with colonial administration historically including the Mubrarak regime, the criminal Shafiq was their candidate in the last election.

      • bilal a
        September 13, 2012, 5:01 pm

        Also the social separation of Coptics in Egypt is aggressively pursued, almost all men have tattoos of crosses on their hands which prevents them from passing as Muslims, and also acts as a kind of in your face F_U to the majority. The ones Ive talked to in new York, even when they work for egyptian muslims, have an extreme hatred for Islam and Muslims. Interestingly, they appear more socially conservative than Muslims in Egypt and their women have a kind of Nun like Hijab.

      • ColinWright
        September 13, 2012, 10:24 pm

        Mmm. Copts are also the garbage collectors in Cairo — who work for free.

        They can’t be all that privileged. At a guess, and like most things, this can’t be turned into ‘good Muslims/bad Copts’ any more than it can be turned into ‘bad Muslims/good Copts.’

      • Blake
        September 14, 2012, 6:14 am

        They are also doctors, lawyers and other professionals. They are not just garbage collectors.

      • ColinWright
        September 14, 2012, 2:03 pm

        No…didn’t say they were. However, the point is that on the face of it, describing Copts as a group as ‘privileged’ seems dubious.

      • Egbert
        September 14, 2012, 7:10 pm

        It is strange then how normal Muslims rallied to protect Copts during the Egyptian uprising.

  12. Citizen
    September 13, 2012, 2:26 pm

    The poor, stupid goys who acted in the film have stated in unison that that they were lied to by the makers of the film, and their voices were dubbed in the final product. Gee, what’s new?

    • proudzionist777
      September 14, 2012, 1:48 am

      Why did you call the actors ‘goys’?

      • Mooser
        September 14, 2012, 7:19 pm

        “Why did you call the actors ‘goys’?”

        He made a small typing error, pootzionist666. Just a small typing error. Why, what do you think he should have called them?

        Say, pudscionist267, or whatever, you were supposed to be making Alley-oops right? Why if your comments (easily accessed in your archive) are correct, you should be settling in to your new home about now. So how are you finding the Jewish-democracy paradise?
        Don’t tell me you changed your little mind about it.

      • proudzionist777
        September 15, 2012, 9:03 am

        @Mooser

        Mooser. I didn’t know you cared!

        Yes, I’m in Israel and I’m finding the Jewish-democracy paradise just fine except my kid may have picked up head lice. Otherwise it’s all wavy gravy.

        If you’re really interested in what I’m doing here, give me your email address and I’ll include you in my ‘Middle East Dispatch’ series that I send to my friends in the States a few times every month.

  13. Blake
    September 13, 2012, 2:32 pm

    This will no doubt have repercussions for the Copts in Egypt. Fringe lunatics like him are repulsive bigots.

  14. Les
    September 13, 2012, 2:46 pm

    Inside the strange Hollywood scam that spread chaos across the Middle East

    A group of rightwing extremists aimed to destabilize post-Mubarak Egypt and roil US politicians. They got their wish
    Max Blumenthal
    guardian.co.uk, Thursday 13 September 2012 12.00 EDT

    Did an inflammatory anti-Muslim film trailer that appeared spontaneously on YouTube prompt the attack that left four US diplomats dead, including US ambassador to Libya Christopher Stevens? American officials have suggested that the assault was pre-planned, allegedly by of one of the Jihadist groups that emerged since the Nato-led overthrow of Libya’s Gaddafi regime. So even though the deadly scene in Benghazi may not have resulted directly from the angry reaction to the Islamophobic video, the violence has helped realize the apocalyptic visions of the film’s backers.

    Produced and promoted by a strange collection of rightwing Christian evangelicals and exiled Egyptian Copts, the trailer was created with the intention of both destabilizing post-Mubarak Egypt and roiling the US presidential election. As a consultant for the film named Steve Klein said: “We went into this knowing this was probably going to happen.”

    The Associated Press’s initial report on the trailer – an amateurish, practically unwatchable production called The Innocence of Muslims – identified a mysterious character, “Sam Bacile”, as its producer. Bacile told the Associated Press that he was a Jewish Israeli real estate developer living in California. He said that he raised $5m for the production of the film from “100 Jewish donors”, an unusual claim echoing Protocols of the Elders of Zion-style fantasies. Unfortunately, the extensive history of Israeli and ultra-Zionist funding and promotion of Islamophobic propaganda in the United States provided Bacile’s remarkable statement with the ring of truth.

    Who was Bacile? The Israeli government could not confirm his citizenship, and for a full day, no journalist was able to determine whether he existed or not. After being duped by Bacile, AP traced his address to the home of Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, a militant Coptic separatist and felon convicted of check fraud. On September 13, US law enforcement officials confirmed that “Sam Bacile” was an alias Nakoula used to advance his various scams, which apparently included the production of The Innocence of Muslims.

    According to an actor in the film, the all-volunteer cast was deceived into believing they were acting in a benign biblical epic about “how things were 2,000 years ago”. The script was titled Desert Warrior, and its contents made no mention of Muhammad – his name was dubbed into the film during post-production. On the set, a gray-haired Egyptian man who identified himself only as “Sam” (Nakoula) chatted aimlessly in Arabic with a group of friends while posing as the director. A casting notice for Desert Warrior listed the film’s real director as “Alan Roberts”. This could likewise be a pseudonym, although there is a veteran Hollywood hand responsible for such masterpieces as The Happy Hooker Goes Hollywood and The Sexpert who goes by the same name.

    Before Nakoula was unmasked, the only person to publicly claim any role in the film was Klein, an insurance salesman and Vietnam veteran from Hemet, California, who emerged from the same Islamophobic movement that produced the Norwegian mass murderer Anders Behring Breivik. Styling themselves as “counter-Jihadists”, anti-Muslim crusaders like Klein took their cues from top propagandists like Pamela Geller, the blogger who once suggested that Barack Obama was the lovechild of Malcolm X, and Robert Spencer, a pseudo-academic expert on Muslim radicalization who claimed that Islam was no more than “a developed doctrine and tradition of warfare against unbelievers”. Both Geller and Spencer were labeled hate group leaders by the Southern Poverty Law Center.

    Klein is an enthusiastic commenter on Geller’s website, Atlas Shrugged, where he recently complained about Mitt Romney’s “support for a Muslim state in Israel’s heartland”. In July 2011, Spencer’s website, Jihad Watch, promoted a rally Klein organized to demand the firing of Los Angeles County sheriff Lee Baca, whom he painted as a dupe for the Muslim Brotherhood.

    On his personal Facebook page, Altar or Abolish, Klein obsesses over the Muslim Brotherhood, describing the organization as “a global network of Muslims attacking to convert the world’s 6 billion people to Islam or kill them”. Klein urges a violent response to the perceived threat of Islam in the United States, posting an image to his website depicting a middle-American family with a mock tank turret strapped to the roof of their car. “Can you direct us to the nearest mosque?” read a caption Klein added to the photo.

    In 2011, during his campaign to oust Sheriff Baca, Klein forged an alliance with Joseph Nasrallah, an extremist Coptic broadcaster who shared his fear and resentment of the Muslim Brotherhood. Nasrallah appeared from out of nowhere at a boisterous rally against the construction of an Islamic community center in downtown Manhattan on September 11, 2010, warning a few hundred riled-up Tea Party types that Muslims “came and conquered our country the same way they want to conquer America”.

    Organized by Geller and Spencer, the rally was carefully timed to coincide with the peak of the midterm congressional election campaign, in which many rightwing Republicans hoped to leverage rising anti-Muslim sentiment into resentment against the presidency of Obama.

    Through his friendship with Nasrallah, Klein encountered another radical Coptic separatist named Morris Sadek. Sadek has been banned from returning to his Egypt, where he is widely hated for his outrageous anti-Muslim displays. On the day of the Ground Zero rally, for instance, Sadek was seen parading around the streets of Washington, DC, on September 11, 2010, with a crucifix in one hand and a Bible implanted with the American flag in the other. “Islam is evil!” he shouted. “Islam is a cult religion!”

    With another US election approaching, and the Egyptian government suddenly under the control of the Muslim Brotherhood, Klein and Sadek joined Nakoula in preparing what would be their greatest propaganda stunt to date: the Innocence of Muslims. As soon as the film appeared on YouTube, Sadek promoted it on his website, transforming the obscure clip into a viral source of outrage in the Middle East. And like clockwork, on September 11, crowds of Muslim protesters stormed the walls of the US embassy in Cairo, demanding retribution for the insult to the prophet Muhammad. The demonstrations ricocheted into Libya, where the deadly attack that may have been only peripherally related to the film occurred.

    For Sadek, the chaos was an encouraging development. He and his allies had been steadfastly opposed to the Egyptian revolution, fearing that it would usher in the Muslim Brotherhood as the country’s new leaders. Now that their worst fears were realized, Coptic extremists and other pro-Mubarak dead-enders were resorting to subterfuge to undermine the ruling party, while pointing to the destabilizing impact of their efforts as proof of the government’s bankruptcy. As Sadek said, “the violence that [the film] caused in Egypt is further evidence of how violent the religion and people”.

    For far-right Christian right activists like Klein, the attacks on American interests abroad seemed likely to advance their ambitions back in the US. With Americans confronted with shocking images of violent Muslims in Egypt and Libya on the evening news, their already negative attitudes toward their Muslim neighbors were likely to harden. In turn, the presidential candidates, Obama and Romney, would be forced to compete for who could take the hardest line against Islamic “terror”.

    A patrician moderate constantly on the defensive against his own right flank, Romney fell for the bait, baselessly accusing Obama of “sympathiz[ing] with those who waged the attacks” and of issuing “an apology for America’s values”. The clumsy broadside backfired in dramatic fashion, opening Romney to strident criticism from across the spectrum, including from embarrassed Republican members of Congress. Obama wasted no time in authorizing a round of drone strikes on targets across Libya, which are likely to deepen regional hostility to the US.

    A group of fringe extremists had proven that with a little bit of money and an unbelievably cynical scam, they could shape history to fit their apocalyptic vision. But in the end, they were not immune to the violence they incited.

    According to Copts Today, an Arabic news outlet focusing on Coptic affairs, Sadek was seen taking a leisurely stroll down Washington’s M Street on September 11, soaking in the sun on a perfect autumn day. All of a sudden, he found himself surrounded by four angry Coptic women. Berating Sadek for fueling the flames of sectarian violence, the women took off their heels and began beating him over the head.

    “If anything happens to a Christian in Egypt,” one of them shouted at him, “you’ll be the reason!”
    link to guardian.co.uk

    • Henry Norr
      September 13, 2012, 3:49 pm

      Max does a good job summarizing what we think we know at this point, but at least for now he appears to be accepting the proposition that “a strange collection of rightwing Christian evangelicals and exiled Egyptian Copts” is responsible for the movie. I’m not convinced that’s the whole story…

    • ToivoS
      September 13, 2012, 6:07 pm

      Pamela Geller, the blogger who once suggested that Barack Obama was the lovechild of Malcolm X, and Robert Spencer

      Boy that Geller will claim anything!

    • ColinWright
      September 15, 2012, 1:58 am

      Les says: “…Berating Sadek for fueling the flames of sectarian violence, the women took off their heels and began beating him over the head…”

      Lol. My first question is…were they wearing heels or flats?

  15. Blake
    September 13, 2012, 3:06 pm

    Israeli Filmmaker Triggers a Bloody 9/11 in Benghazi & Cairo by Dr Ashraf Ezzat
    Excerpt:
    Ironically, in Egypt, the Muhammed film is not linked with the Israeli director as much it is with the Coptic community in the United States, for a Christian activist involved in the film project said that Bacile was a pseudonym, that he was not Jewish or Israeli, and that a group of Americans of Mideast origin collaborated on the film.

    So much of the anger is coming down on the Coptic community in Egypt whose members, already suffering from discrimination, will have to live with the long-run consequences of the sedition this irresponsible film has created.

    And actually those who made the film and financed it are no fools, they knew what they were doing and they surely saw this catastrophic response coming. Even more, they begged for it to happen.

    This whole thing was no coincidence; 9/11 (the international day that supposedly marks Islamic fanaticism/terrorism)was not haphazardly chosen for posting the film trailer on YouTube, and terry Jones and the American Coptic leaders were not infuriating the Muslim sentiments in Egypt for nothing.

    This whole (insult Muhammed) stunt was supposedly leading to one thing; inflaming the sectarian tension between Muslims and Christians in Egypt.

    This film, directed and produced by a bunch of Israel-loving Zionists was not after an Oscar, the film is artistically amateurish, but it was aiming to damage/and deteriorate an already vulnerable sectarian situation in Egypt.

    Following the “divide and conquer concept” the Israeli side knows damn well that if Egypt, the only Arab nation that is still unbending before the Zionist project of a new Middle East, is to be defeated and balkanized, It will not be achievable by the might of the military power but by the perils of the sectarian war.

    Hit the national unity between the Muslims and Copts (Egypt Christians) and it won’t be long before Egypt would turn into another Iraq or Syria.

    link to veteranstoday.com

    • proudzionist777
      September 14, 2012, 1:52 am

      @Blake

      “…..produced by a bunch of Israel-loving Zionists…”

      Where’s your proof, Blake?

      • Blake
        September 14, 2012, 6:15 am

        I was quoting an article. And it’s obvious to anyone who is not a zionist.

  16. seafoid
    September 13, 2012, 3:38 pm

    The Copts could be any wackos but how did they get this film onto a global network and who wanted it there?

    • Djinn
      September 13, 2012, 9:16 pm

      It was posted to you tube, not exactly high level film marketing.

      • seafoid
        September 14, 2012, 1:47 am

        Try an experiment, Djinn. Upload a video of yourself singing Hatikva, let me know and I’ll count the number of days until it appears on Ha’aretz.

        It’s not that easy to achieve worldwide notoriety.

        There is something very fishy about the whole story.

  17. American
    September 13, 2012, 4:48 pm

    link to newsfeed.time.com

    Thursday morning, U.S. law enforcement officials confirmed Nakoula is the filmmaker behind the inflammatory movie that has incited riots in Egypt, Libya and Yemen
    >>>>>>>>

    We could do another scenario on this in light of the latest above…..let’s say Nakoula, who has a prison and criminal history of just plain fraud, got an idea about the anti-Islam groups and sought out in Klein and suckered him into a film on it as a money making scheme for himself…and that’s how the whole thing started.

    Then when the Egypt and Libya protest start Nakoula panics thinking what for him was just a money making scam is going to be traced to him….so he starts calling the media to throw them off the track by claiming to be a Jewish Israeli. Maybe Klein originally also said Bacile was Israeli because he also skimmed off some of the money raised for the film and Nakoula told him to say that to cover both his scam and both their asses. And then maybe spurred by this story not going to end until…and some of their money donors starting to get nervous about how far the story goes till it does end……Klein changes his story on Bacile being Jewish Israeli to Copts and then the whole story starts unraveling in the media….with the media naturally eating up all the religous extremism and not mentioning the originial intent could have been just a money making scam by Nakoula.

    • Annie Robbins
      September 13, 2012, 5:25 pm

      not to be too picky but initially it says According to law enforcement officials on Thursday, Nakoula has been confirmed as the writer and director of Innocence of Muslims. which is a little different than what they said at the end ‘U.S. law enforcement officials confirmed Nakoula’. at the beginning they say Several people, either directly or inadvertently, were involved with the controversial film

      so it doesn’t rule out the involvement of Nasralla Abdelmasih, at all.

    • American
      September 13, 2012, 6:56 pm

      @annie

      No it doesn’t rule out involvement by many others in making or supporting making the film.
      I was trying to figure out why the lie about being a Jewish Israeli and telling that to the media.
      I didn’t see anything about Nakoula having a background of religious political activism, just a background of fraud and scams, so one explanation for that lie might have been trying to throw people off his trail because it was a scam and because of his criminal background.
      I think it said, without re reading it, that after he got out of prison he was prohibited from using computers or the net. Possibly his using the net for this film showing would have violated that and sent him back to jail so he had double reasons for not wanting to be identified.,

    • Carowhat
      September 15, 2012, 3:29 am

      Thursday morning, U.S. law enforcement officials confirmed Nakoula is the filmmaker behind the inflammatory movie that has incited riots in Egypt, Libya and Yemen

      This movie didn’t incite anything. It was just the excuse. The real reason for the riots was Muslim resentment of a decade of US wars in the region, drone attacks, and one-sided support for the Greater Israel agenda.

  18. bilal a
    September 13, 2012, 4:55 pm

    An actress in the film interviewed said that the director Sam Basil was white haired. If the coptic criminal is not white haired, hes a patsy suggested by the AP.

    Sam Basil may in fact be Israeli American.

  19. wes
    September 13, 2012, 5:13 pm

    the end result will be the removal of copts from egypt-the egyptian copts i know personally left egypt a long time ago due to discrimination
    nothing new here

    • ToivoS
      September 13, 2012, 6:15 pm

      What a coincidence, all of the Egyptian copts I know left Egypt too.

      • seafoid
        September 14, 2012, 1:50 am

        I worked with a good few Copts in Cairo. They have a lot of influence in the economy and Egypt needs them .

        Getting rid of the Copts would be as smart as Spain’s expulsion of its Jews in 1492.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 14, 2012, 3:02 am

        there are some people who definitely have an agenda of dividing the ME into ethnic nationalist states. not sure how christians fit into that. don’t think they do actually.

      • Walid
        September 14, 2012, 12:50 pm

        “Getting rid of the Copts would be as smart as Spain’s expulsion of its Jews in 1492.”

        Nasser got rid of about 200,000 in the late 60s, mostly all of them educated. With the current problems, over 100,000 mostly of the professional and business class left the country out of fear of the Salafists in the last 18 months, half of them to the US, 14,000 to Australia, 17,000 to Canada, and 20,000 to the Netherlands, Italy, England, Austria, Germany and France. I heard that the easiest country to get accepted to was the US that was practically rubber-stamping applications for whole families.

    • Blake
      September 14, 2012, 12:55 pm

      Removal of them to where? Egyptians are not Eastern European Zionists

      • Walid
        September 14, 2012, 2:00 pm

        The Copts are welcomed just about anywhere they wish to go. The fundamentalists are making it very hard for them to stay. Anyway, wherever they go, you can be sure that they won’t displace or dispossess any other people to take their place as the Zionists did to the Palestninian natives.

  20. Abuadam
    September 13, 2012, 7:52 pm

    HE SHOULD FIGHT FOR THR RIGHT OF COPTIC WOMEN TO DIVORCE, somthing that Muslim women could do centuries before any Christian or Jewish women could ever dream!

  21. Denis
    September 13, 2012, 9:22 pm

    Let’s just take a breath and look at where we’re going with this.

    First, we had two totally incompetent reports by AP and WSJ that Innocence of Muslims was written, directed and produced by Sam Bacile, an Israeli Jew California land developer with 100 Jewish contributors. Incompetent on a Dan Rather scale b/c they published with absolutely no attempt to verify anything they said.

    OK, everybody bought that. Sam Bacile = American Israeli Jew land developer. Tsk, tsk, tsk . . . those pesky Zionists are at it again. I fell for this, too. We all did.

    Then the Israel-firsters came out of the woodwork b/c, hey, this don’t look too good for Jews if they are funding moronic anti-Mulsim flicks that end up getting the good guys killed. So Goldberg and Blumenthal and Geller and who knows who else go into high gear and get the story re-organized to get the Jews as far away from the heat as possible. And, to borrow a recent Obama metaphor – shooting, then aiming – the AP dudes finally actually do some work and re-write the script along the Copts line, which everybody here is calling “great reporting” only there’s nothing great about it. It’s a day late and a dollar short, as my dad used to say every time I f**ked up, which was, basically, daily.

    So for now Sam Bacile is an ex-con Copt named Nakoula. But, even if that is true, the Sam Bacile we are looking for is the dude who wrote, directed and produced IoM. The Sam Bacile connected to Nakoula is nobody but the person AP talked to in LA. Or the person Goldberg says Klein talked to. Or the person Blumenthal says AP says has a middle name that sounds like Bacile. There is still no verification that Nakoula wrote, directed and produced anything. Until someone gets the actors to ID who was directing IoM, we won’t know who the real Bacile is. But so what????

    Who cares who made this dumb-ass movie – Copt, Christian, Jew, Batman – who cares? The question is not who made the thing, but who used it to gin up anti-American riots on precisely 9/11 – the most Islamophobic day in America? That’s the question we have to apply the cui bono thinking to. Who benefited from this? It was certainly not the Copts. If I was a Copt in Egypt, I’d be hiding in the toilet tank with a snorkel tube after Friday prayers tomorrow when this whole thing is really going to blow.

    I’ll tell you who benefits from this mess: Israel. The more Americans hate Muslims, the better off Israel is. So, for the moment at least, I’m stickin’ with the obvious – and it ain’t about Copts. It’s about Arabic-speaking Israeli operatives with BIC lighters in their pockets and blood on their hands.

    • Walid
      September 14, 2012, 12:30 am

      “If I was a Copt in Egypt, I’d be hiding in the toilet tank with a snorkel tube after Friday prayers tomorrow when this whole thing is really going to blow. ” (Denis)

      A big one is planned by the Brothers after the Friday prayers in Egypt.
      From al-Ahram:

      “… Demonstrators demanded an apology from the US government, saying that if no such apology was forthcoming by Friday they would stage an open-ended sit-in. On Friday, members of the Muslim Brotherhood, Salafist parties and others are planning a million-man rally in Cairo’s Tahrir Square to register their anger.”

      link to english.ahram.org.eg

      • eljay
        September 14, 2012, 9:20 am

        >> ” … Demonstrators demanded an apology from the US government … ”

        The U.S. does not owe them an apology.

      • seanmcbride
        September 14, 2012, 10:52 am

        eljay,

        “The U.S. does not owe them an apology.”

        Actually, these crazed Muslim mobs are doing much more damage to Islam than Pamela Geller or Robert Spencer could ever dream of. They will probably succeed in converting quite a few American and European liberals into neoconservatives. They are utterly appalling — much worse in their rabid and hysterical fanaticism than most Christian fundamentalists. Americans share nothing in common with them culturally or ideologically.

      • eljay
        September 14, 2012, 11:33 am

        >> Actually, these crazed Muslim mobs are doing much more damage to Islam than Pamela Geller or Robert Spencer could ever dream of.

        Yup. It’s a shame that most (all?) incidents of disrespect of Islam are accompanied by violence, destruction and occasionally even death. This severely undermines claims by moderate Muslims that Islam is a religion of tolerance and peace.

        Leave it to the fanatics to mess things up for the moderates, eh? ;-)

      • seanmcbride
        September 14, 2012, 11:41 am

        eljay,

        “Leave it to the fanatics to mess things up for the moderates, eh? ;-)”

        Yeah — I go back and forth on this. Usually I will try to defend Islam against inciters, but sometimes my patience for Muslim fanatics reaches a limit and I start to see what Christopher Hitchens was talking about. You wanna play? — let’s play.

        That hysterical mob shrieking mode that some Muslims sometimes get into — it is f*cking appalling. Anti-human. Bestial. It brings out the John Wayne and Clint Eastwood in me. I hate shriekers. Make my day.

      • American
        September 14, 2012, 11:52 am

        “The U.S. does not owe them an apology.”…eljay

        If someone in your group or related to you was a dick or drunk and insulted someone or made a scene out in public wouldn’t you apologize for that person’s behavior to whoever he offended?

        For once I think Hillary got it right….she offered US regrets and explained how the US freedom of speech allows people to say what they want even if it’s abhorrent and disgusting.

      • eljay
        September 14, 2012, 2:36 pm

        seanmcbride, I find it interesting that (some) Muslims get bent out of shape when someone disrespects Mohammed (a man who’s been dead for centuries), but their entire religion has no trouble disrespecting Christ (an eternal being, a god – one with the Father, no less!) and apparently Christians are supposed to be OK with that because:
        – Islam is merely “correcting” the “errors” of the religions from which it is derived; and
        – Islam says it still respects Christ, even if only as a “prophet”…but not as the (son of) god Christians all know him to be, and not even as “the bestest prophet ever!”.

        Whatever. Religion is silly stuff.

        Nevertheless, people should be free to practise it. However, practising your religion does not give you the right i) to impose it on others or ii) to destroy and kill over it, even when people make fun of it.

        No matter how much fun people make of Scientology, I will never think it’s OK for Tom Cruise or John Travolta to kill another human being or to destroy someone else’s property.

      • eljay
        September 14, 2012, 2:40 pm

        >> American @ September 14, 2012 at 11:52 am

        As you point out, Ms. Clinton – who represents the U.S. government – has “offered US regrets and explained how the US freedom of speech allows people to say what they want even if it’s abhorrent and disgusting”.

        If the film-maker broke a specific law, charge him; and if any people in the U.S. government are complicit in the making of this film, hold them accountable.

        Aside from that, there’s nothing else to be done.

      • eljay
        September 14, 2012, 2:52 pm

        >> If someone in your group or related to you was a dick or … insulted someone or made a scene out in public wouldn’t you apologize for that person’s behavior to whoever he offended?

        So, when was the last time the U.S. government – which is very much complicit in Israel’s occupation of Palestine and oppression of Palestinians – “apologized for [Israel's] behaviour to whoever [it] offended”?

      • MRW
        September 14, 2012, 4:04 pm

        That hysterical mob shrieking mode that some Muslims sometimes get into — it is f*cking appalling

        Oh? You missed the Gaza War coverage from Israel?

        Pity.

      • American
        September 14, 2012, 6:31 pm

        @eljay

        Well we all know the deal with why the US won’t apologize for Israel.

      • ColinWright
        September 15, 2012, 2:10 am

        eljay says: “seanmcbride, I find it interesting that (some) Muslims get bent out of shape when someone disrespects Mohammed (a man who’s been dead for centuries), but their entire religion has no trouble disrespecting Christ (an eternal being, a god – one with the Father, no less!) and apparently Christians are supposed to be OK with that…”

        You must be outraged by Judaism.

      • Taxi
        September 15, 2012, 5:17 am

        Sean,

        “… but their entire religion has no trouble disrespecting Christ ”

        If you knew ANYTHING for real about islam, you would know that “christ” is one of their prophets too. In fact, he’s such an important prophet in islam (number two I’m told) that the prophet mohammad himself asked his followers to live day-to-day in purity and peace following the path of jesus. Also the virgin Mary is most holy in islam. Why do you think so many moslem girls are named ‘Mariam’ (that’s Arabic for Mary, in case you didn’t know)?

        Why the heck do you keep repeating sooooo many ridiculously ignorant zionists and christian fundie memes about Arabs and moslems, then deny your zionism?

      • eljay
        September 15, 2012, 8:51 am

        >> Well we all know the deal with why the US won’t apologize for Israel.

        True enough.

      • eljay
        September 15, 2012, 8:59 am

        >> You must be outraged by Judaism.

        Outraged? No. I’m not outraged by Judaism or by any other religion – I think they’re all pretty silly. I do get bothered, however, when adherents attempt to impose their religious beliefs on others or when they use their religious beliefs to justify illegal or immoral actions.

      • MRW
        September 15, 2012, 9:29 am

        @eljay,

        Jesus is a prophet in Islam.

      • American
        September 15, 2012, 10:21 am

        “That hysterical mob shrieking mode that some Muslims sometimes get into — it is f*cking appalling. Anti-human. Bestial. It brings out the John Wayne and Clint Eastwood in me. I hate shriekers. Make my day”..sean

        Mobs often turn into shriekers…..Muslim or not, screaming, chanting, shrieking….look at some of the US protests like against the NY mosque for instance……difference is most western countries are accustomed to ‘authority, ‘law and ‘order rules and etc.. …take that away and western mobs are just as likely to get out of hand.

      • seanmcbride
        September 15, 2012, 11:19 am

        Taxi,

        I didn’t make this comment:

        “… but their entire religion has no trouble disrespecting Christ ”

        Your comment was directed at the wrong person.

        And:

        “Why the heck do you keep repeating sooooo many ridiculously ignorant zionists and christian fundie memes about Arabs and moslems, then deny your zionism?”

        I haven’t made a single false comment about Arabs and Muslims — please cite one. Nor am I a Zionist — I dislike all forms of ethnic and religious nationalism, as well as all forms of religious fundamentalism and extremism.

      • eljay
        September 15, 2012, 1:47 pm

        >> Jesus is a prophet in Islam.

        I know. But Christians know him to be God / the son of God. Seems pretty disrespectful to me that Islam should “correct” Christianity and demote Jesus to the status of #2 prophet. ;-)

      • Taxi
        September 15, 2012, 3:30 pm

        Right you are Sean – apologies for confusing eljay’s quote with yours.

        But I really wish you wouldn’t refer to muslim extremists as just ‘muslim’ – very offensive to keep doing this and you’re not the only one doing it either. Them Abrahamic insane fundies, moslem, christian and jewish alike, should all really be called ‘religionists’ – and for further specifics we can tag on a nationality, i.e.: Libyan religionists/American religionists/israeli religionists etc. I don’t think individuals should call themselves a religious person, nor people should call them a religious person, if what they really are is apocalypsian: religionists who look forward to and support the violent devastation of humanity.

        And Sean, this extremism that so revolts you is not solely a ‘muslim’ or Arab penchant – we got plenty of our “bestials” here – our history books are loaded with examples: the Arab renaissance was flourishing when us here in America and europe were stuck in the dark ages. So what? Under the right conditions, like the ones most arabs are living under today, we too we be crazed and raging outside embassies. Nation groups go up, then go down, then up again and so on and so forth. Your judgements on middle eastern natives is kinda myopic and…

        What I’m really tryna say sean is that lately, you’ve taken the ‘superiorist’ position on a lotta issues to do with arabs and muslims, which i consider a teeny weeny yellow polkadot bikini racist. Sorry to say this pal but you really need to check yourself.

        Usually, you’re more reason and less emotion. What happened?

      • andrew r
        September 15, 2012, 5:35 pm

        That hysterical mob shrieking mode that some Muslims sometimes get into — it is f*cking appalling. Anti-human. Bestial. It brings out the John Wayne and Clint Eastwood in me. I hate shriekers. Make my day.

        I’m not trying to excuse the rioting, well screw that, maybe I am, but did no one stop to think this might be the result of decades of military intervention in the region whereas the people often dubbed collateral damage don’t have the means to invade the USA and drop some aerial warfare of their own? Sure, Americans don’t act anti-human and bestial, they don’t set buildings on fire with bottles of gasoline, they just put on a uniform, get in the fighter jet and shoot everything at random. That’s not mob violence, that’s ordered violence.

        The western invaders of the Middle East wrote these rules of engagement. If you want to target the invaders who have been killing your people at random for too long, you break their rules of decorum. The mob might look bad on TV, but they know up close and personal what a strafing fighter jet looks like.

        The real question is why it took a stupid film to get this result and not an actual invasion or massacre by the US army. Maybe the old regimes where these riots are taking place would have squashed it before breakfast, but who knows.

      • seanmcbride
        September 15, 2012, 10:40 pm

        Taxi,

        I take great care to discriminate between Jewish, Christian and Muslim extremists on the one hand and Jews, Christians and Muslims generally on the other.

        Have I poorly phrased some of my recent statements? Please point them out and I will clean them up. I definitely don’t think that hysterical Muslim rioters represent all Muslims.

        I discriminate between progressive and fundamentalist religionists generally — I admire many religionists and have a strong interest in world religions.

        Nor did I attempt to associate Arabs in general with the current unhinged rioters — and I appreciate the glories of Arab culture and civilization.

        As I mentioned before, I rarely watch cable TV news. When I turned on Rachel Maddow the other night and saw all the footage of rioters collectively losing their minds in a mob nervous breakdown over a ridiculous video, I reacted viscerally and recoiled. My disgust hasn’t receded in the slightest.

        What racist views have I expressed towards Arabs and Muslims? Point me to some specific quotes of mine so that I can see what you are talking about. I have been much harsher overall on Christian and Jewish extremists in my comments than on Arab and Muslim extremists. Recent events (especially the murder and possible rape of the US ambassador to Libya, Christopher Stevens) have reminded me that Arab and Muslim extremists play a significant role in Mideast politics — and that they need to be met with overwhelming force.

        Yes, I am emotional about the murder of Chris Stevens and his American associates. I admit it. And I don’t apologize for the emotion. I hope that the American government successfully hunts down the murderers and visits justice on them.

      • moonkoon
        September 16, 2012, 9:05 am

        The Christian claim that Jesus is God is based on the evidence (in their eyes) that Jesus manifested the unconditional love (agape) for mankind that is at the heart of their conception of God the Father. So for them it is perhaps more of an inescapable conclusion than a matter of faith.

        Jesus was considered to be blasphemous when he indicated that he might have such a relationship with the Father. But if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, tastes like a duck… etc. :-). What was He supposed to say?

        Even more shockingly, He calls upon all of us to follow his example and to hell with what the neighbours think. :-)

      • Taxi
        September 16, 2012, 3:10 pm

        Sean,

        Just so we’re all clear on the meaning of the word ‘religionist':
        re·li·gion·ism, re·ligion·ist (noun): Excessive or affected religious zeal.

        Let me also add that yes we should all respect people’s religion but we should all be hyper-critical nay intolerant of religionists including Arab ones. I’m all for battling religious extremism whatever it may be.

        Sean, I honestly don’t have the time to go through your prolific postings picking out discrepancies, and I also don’t want to police your fluid thinking process either right now or in the future. And it’s not really the words that I wanted to spotlight anyhow, it’s a general underlying disdain towards arabs/moslems that I’ve been gleaning from your posts lately. This ick was not there before. It’s like you’ve gone through a fretful shift of sorts recently and it’s narrowing your judgement here and there.

        Even though you’ve been irritating me lately, I still like you, Sean. You’re a very smart man, evidently well read and a sentient moral human. Maybe I shouldn’t be saying this but I think you would gain (missing) insight if you took a trip to the middle east one day, heard their history from their own mouths, really experience who these people are: yeah it’s different place over there, but they’re actually just like us – and it’s only the fickleness of cosmic geography that birthed them muslim and Arab in the 21st century.

      • tree
        September 16, 2012, 3:49 pm

        “Seems pretty disrespectful to me that Islam should “correct” Christianity and demote Jesus to the status of #2 prophet.”

        Then it must seem even more disrespectful that Judaism considers Jesus a pretender, a bastard, and a false messiah. Which is why Colin said you must be outraged by Judaism if you find it “disrespectful” for Islam to consider Jesus “only” a revered prophet.

      • seanmcbride
        September 17, 2012, 9:38 am

        Taxi,

        “Religionist” can refer to a religious zealot, or, more mildly, to someone who strongly adheres to a religion, or, even more mildly, to someone who is merely a religious person.

        See OneLook Dictionary Search for the whole array of definitions:

        link to onelook.com

        Some semantic shadings which do not imply zealotry or fanaticism:

        1. a person adhering to a religion (Merriam-Webster)

        2. a person addicted to a religion (Wordnetweb)

        3. devout person, pious person, one who is deeply religious (Babylon)

        4. One earnestly devoted or attached to a religion (Answers.com)

        5. a sectarian: sometimes used in other than a condemnatory sense (Wordnik)

        6. a person who manifests devotion to a deity (WordNet)

        7. a religious person (Onelook)

        I use “religionist” to describe someone who is a religious person and who takes his or her religion seriously, and to distinguish such people from secularists or people who are members of religions by name only. Religionists are not necessarily religious fundamentalists or religious extremists — there are moderate religionists and there are militant religionists.

        If you think I might be misuing the word, let me know. :) But, in any case, you know what I mean when I use the word.

        There is a great deal of religious fundamentalism and extremism among all three major branches of the Abrahamic tradition: Judaism, Christianity and Islam. The Western European and American Enlightenment tradition has directly challenged Abrahamic fundamentalism (and sometimes even the entire Bible-based monotheistic tradition).

        Christianity and Judaism have made efforts to come to terms with the Enlightenment. I am not sure that Islam has. Perhaps you can “enlighten” me on that subject. Certainly those Muslim rioters who went ballistic over a ridiculous video do not seem to have been much influenced by Voltaire, Thomas Jefferson and Thomas Paine.

        The Arab Spring seems to be veering away from a forward-looking commitment to Enlightenment values and sliding backwards into Islamism. Fine — that is its right. But Islamists generally turn off Americans and Europeans.

        Islamism as defined by Onelook:

        a fundamentalist Islamic revivalist movement generally characterized by moral conservatism and the literal interpretation of the Koran and the attempt to implement Islamic values in all aspects of life

      • seanmcbride
        September 17, 2012, 10:40 am

        Taxi wrote:

        “And it’s not really the words that I wanted to spotlight anyhow, it’s a general underlying disdain towards arabs/moslems that I’ve been gleaning from your posts lately. This ick was not there before. It’s like you’ve gone through a fretful shift of sorts recently and it’s narrowing your judgement here and there.”

        Again, if you show me a few examples in which you think I’ve expressed disdain towards Arabs or Muslims, I will take a close look, self-reflect and apologize if necessary.

        I have undergone a bit of a shift of outlook on Mideast politics recently, thanks to Colin Wright, who triggered in me an epiphany: anti-Zionists need to be extremely careful about how they frame their anti-Zionism, and with a respect for the innate humanity of Israelis and Zionists, many of whom are not monsters (but who may be ideologically misguided). I feel more motivated now to try to defend Jews against “anti-Zionist” attacks which sometimes have the flavor of obsessive hate-filled antisemitic abuse and assaults. I don’t want to crush Israelis — I want to help them dig themselves out of their current hole. I am not interested in entering an alliance with antisemites who are trying to stir up pogroms.

        Regarding Arabs and Muslims — those whom I have met have been great people — thoughtful, generous, friendly, curious, inquisitive, etc. I harbor no prejudices against them as peoples. I respect most of them; I like most of them.

        But I have been open about confessing my own cultural biases, which are oriented around the sensibilities and traditions of Western culture, especially the United States, Britain, Ireland, France, Germany and Italy. That is the tradition in which I was initiated and indoctrinated, it constitutes my ground of being culturally speaking, and I continue to love it and its great accomplishments, despite its many sins. I am not a Euro-American chauvinist, but I am centered in (although not delimited by) that culture. (“not delimited by” — I am probably more a Buddhist these days than a Christian, for instance.)

      • seanmcbride
        September 17, 2012, 10:56 am

        Taxi,

        A further note: I fully acknowledge that much of the anger and outrage in the Arab and Muslim world towards the West has been instigated and inflamed by the sins and crimes of Western imperialism. But I also think that much of the fanaticism in sectors of the Muslim world is pro-active, aggressive and itself the product of an imperialist, expansionist and intolerant mentality. Trying to sort all this out requires a great deal of careful scholarship and intellectual precision. I am not prepared to give Islamists a pass for their religious and political extremism.

        It could be that the West and Islamism suffer from irreconcilable cultural differences. Each party may conclude that they need to give each other as much space as possible and try not to meddle in each other’s affairs. But I am betting that the Western Enlightenment is the wave of the future overall for the human race, not Islamism. The West has discovered a better way. Feel free to disagree — it’s your perfect right.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 17, 2012, 11:12 am

        i against religious extremism. but not all the people showing up at these protests are religious extremists. characterizing them as such is irresponsible (not implying you are doing that).

      • Taxi
        September 17, 2012, 11:40 am

        Sean,

        I have zero interest in a religious lifestyle, or even discussing religion. But if we’re talking paths to collective human progress, I’d say some eastern philosophies are more advanced that western enlightenment.

        I think injecting unfettered capitalism into western enlightenment had somewhat turned off the lights on that movement as far back as the industrial revolution in the 1890’s.

        I definitely prefer science to religion as a communal manifesto. But science too has it’s problems. One thing’s for sure, neither science nor religion can answer the question of god and the meaning of life in a satisfying way for me.

        Also, if the majority of arab countries weren’t suffering – no – actually let me re-phrase: if western countries were piss poor like most arab countries are now, I doubt you’d be saying the west is the best. In a way, you’re saying the west is better cuz it’s materialistically wealthier. But is materialism really the ultimate expression of an advanced culture?

        These are important philosophical questions that religion and politics in modern times have usurped from philosophers and we are non the better as a collective for it.

        Does your alignment with Western Enlightenment make you feel superior? Well it comes across that way even from your above post – and this is exactly what I’m critiquing.

        Cuz when you talk about judaism or christianity, you seem to include them as part of your western enlightenment. Islam just has no place there for you whatsoever. It really is the oriental other to you.

      • eljay
        September 17, 2012, 11:47 am

        >> Then it must seem even more disrespectful that Judaism considers Jesus a pretender, a bastard, and a false messiah.

        My example referred to a religion embracing a religion from which it is derived and then re-defining the role of a key figure in that religion. Judaism is not derived from Christanity.

        The comparable example would be Christianity embracing Judaism and then “correcting” Judaism and re-defining the roles of, say, Abraham or Moses. I suspect Jews would find that offensive.

        Anyway, as I stated to Colin earlier: I’m not outraged by Judaism or by any other religion – I think they’re all pretty silly. I do get bothered, however, when adherents attempt to impose their religious beliefs on others or when they use their religious beliefs to justify illegal or immoral actions.

      • seanmcbride
        September 17, 2012, 12:24 pm

        Taxi wrote:

        Cuz when you talk about judaism or christianity, you seem to include them as part of your western enlightenment. Islam just has no place there for you whatsoever. It really is the oriental other to you.

        I am asking you if there is any evidence that Islam has made the transition culturally into the modern Enlightenment world. Has it? Explain how it has.

        Some Enlightenment and modern Western democratic values:

        1. animal rights
        2. balance of powers
        3. civil liberties
        4. creative capitalism (as opposed to crony and vulture capitalism)
        5. democracy
        6. due process
        7. freedom of assembly
        8. freedom of religion
        9. freedom *from* religion
        10. freedom of speech
        11. humanism
        12. individualism
        13. privacy rights
        14. reason
        15. science
        16. secularism
        17. separation of church and state
        18. skepticism
        19. toleration
        20. women’s rights

        Do I find Islamism to be alien to my cultural values? Without a doubt. We have our own Islamists in the United States — they’re called Christian Zionists. So far Americans as a whole have been able to keep them in check.

      • Taxi
        September 17, 2012, 2:32 pm

        So your answer, judging by your list, is that you DO find islam inferior.

        Little do you know that your list used to be the practice of islam during politically more stable times, i.e. during their golden age. And in fact islam was essentially created so as to give rights to women, free slaves, distribute power more equally, due process, tolerance and secularism and so on and so forth. Your blind-spot, which is your spotlighted ignorance here, is that you can’t distinguish between islam and moslem extremists.

        You really do sound like an 18th century snoot with wig and powdered nose when you talk about moslems.

        And I dare you Sean to prove to me that judaism and christianity also pass your precious ‘list of enlightened values’.

        You honestly think, for instance that you are more ‘enlightened’ than a marsh Arab? Than a Peruvian fisherman? An African bush sculptor? A Mongolian camel farmer? How so? Cuz you wear a suit everyday? Cuz you watch tv, post on mondoweiss and own a Blackberry?

        I’ll tell you something, Sean: your brand of enlightenment is really not all that – only cause you have a very shallow understanding of the HUMAN CONDITION.

        Like I told you before, it would benefit you immensely to visit the middle east cuz you haven’t got a clue who these people are. You probably haven’t even read the Qur’an to really be talking about islam with any authority whatsoever.

        You go around accusing Colin of antisemiticism when in fact you are the inverted antisemite. The way you diss on moslems, the way you are both in fear and awe of the jews…. well Sean, WFT, arabs and jews ARE semites and today’s moslems used to be yesterday’s jews!

      • seanmcbride
        September 17, 2012, 2:36 pm

        Taxi,

        On the Islamist front:

        “Hezbollah warns US over film”
        link to irishtimes.com

        Hezbollah leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah made a rare public appearance today to tell the United States it would face more anger and grave repercussions across the Muslim world unless it suppressed a film that demeans the
        Prophet Mohammad….

        “The distribution of this entire film must be banned by the Americans,” he said, to roars of applause….

        “The world should know our anger would not be a passing outburst but it would be the start of a serious movement that would continue on the level of the Muslim nation to defend the Prophet of God,” Nasrallah said.

        He called for websites to stop publishing clips said to be a trailer for the amateurishly made movie called “Innocence of Muslims,” although no full length film has materialised.

        The greater goal, Nasrallah said, would be for the international community to agree to criminalise insults to any religion and its prophets.

        Be sure to check out the comments, from the Irish Times.

        Taxi: if Americans responded to this demand with a big “f*ck you,” would you be offended?

        But wait, there is more:

        ‘We’ll track him down:’ Iran vows to punish US-based producer who made anti-Islam film

        link to dailymail.co.uk

        Iran today vowed down to track down the filmmaker who produced an anti-Islamic film which has provoked protests around the world.

        As fresh protests broke out in Afghanistan and Pakistan, the Iranian Vice-President Mohammad Reza Rahimi issued an stark message directed at Nakoula Basseley Nakoula – who lives in California – who was behind The Innocence of Muslims.

        ‘The government of the Islamic Republic of Iran condemns… this inappropriate and offensive action,’ Mr Rahimi said.

        ‘Certainly it will search for, track and pursue this guilty person who… has insulted 1.5 billion Muslims worldwide.’

      • seanmcbride
        September 17, 2012, 3:32 pm

        Taxi wrote:

        Little do you know that your list used to be the practice of islam during politically more stable times, i.e. during their golden age. And in fact islam was essentially created so as to give rights to women, free slaves, distribute power more equally, due process, tolerance and secularism and so on and so forth. Your blind-spot, which is your spotlighted ignorance here, is that you can’t distinguish between islam and moslem extremists.

        I understand that *Islam* has some progressive currents. We are mostly discussing *Islamism* here. What is the current status of Islamism in Iran and other Islamist nations and movements? What does their value system look like?

        I am fairly certain that contemporary Islamists do not support two cornerstones of modern Western democracies: free speech and separation of church and state.

        You honestly think, for instance that you are more ‘enlightened’ than a marsh Arab? Than a Peruvian fisherman? An African bush sculptor? A Mongolian camel farmer? How so? Cuz you wear a suit everyday? Cuz you watch tv, post on mondoweiss and own a Blackberry?

        Please — a Blackberry? I would never be so uncool. :)

        Your analogy to Colin Wright misses the mark: I have never expressed “hatred” towards Islam or vented (repeatedly) a burning desire to see it destroyed. In fact, I have repeatedly condemned Islamophobia here in the strongest possible terms.

        But I prefer Western democratic values to Islamist values, in the same way that I prefer progressive to neoconservative and Christian Zionist values. I am entitled to my preference, I think.

        I am fairly good at reading the political tea leaves early on. I predict that modern Western democracies and Islamist nations will come to the mutual conclusion that they have irreconcilable differences and should take care not to meddle in one another’s affairs. You should applaud this scenario: I am suggesting that the United States stop trying to mold Mideast nations in its image: it’s a waste of time and only stirs up hatred against Americans. Let them run their societies as they choose.

        By the way, I wrote two detailed replies to you which haven’t been approved yet and which developed my point of view in more depth. Perhaps they will appear soon.

      • Taxi
        September 17, 2012, 3:54 pm

        I don’t get your snide tone, Sean. You think I’m a secret muslim like Obama? You hunting secret muslims now and well as secret anti-Semites?

        And if you actually heard Nasrallah’s speech live and in Arabic like I did, you woulda heard him warn that to release the full-length movie version would rile the muslim world even worst and worster cuz it would be seen as the usa willfully rubbing salt into their wounds. Yeah sure that’s a warning, but it’s not an ape-beating-chest warning! Nasrallah’s kinda stating the obvious and you’ve completely missed the point. Also, thousands of people protested with him, it was PEACEFUL, ORDERLY AND NO ONE WAS HURT!!! How the f-ck about that, Sean?!!! Is THIS civilized enough for you? Will you accept them as members of your “enlightened” whiteman’s club?

        And their chants of “death to America, death to israel”? Well what the f-ck do you expect people to think when EVERYDAY we have an American congress member or two declaring to the whole world that there is “no daylight” between us and israel?! The Arab protestors in all Arab cities are raging against violent American and israeli zionism. Zionist America is NOT our beloved democratic republic no more, in case you haven’t noticed.

        Please, don’t bother me with your ignorant non-insights on this case anymore. You just don’t get it and you never ever will.

      • Citizen
        September 18, 2012, 6:13 am

        @ Taxi

        What happened?

        Maybe Sean could start here?

        “One of the scholars sent by Muhammad Ali to Europe in 1826 was Rifa’a Rafi’ al-Tahtawi. The five years he spent in Paris left a permanent mark on him. After his return to Egypt he wrote about his impressions of France and translated numerous European works into Arabic. Tahtawi was impressed with Europe’s technological and scientific advancement and political philosophy.[7] Having studied Islamic law, he argued that “it was necessary to adapt the Sharia to new circumstances” and that there was not much difference between “the principles of Islamic law and those principles of ‘natural law’ on which the codes of modern Europe were based.”[8]
        Like Tahtawi, Khayr al- Din was also sent to Paris where he spent four years. After his return from Europe he wrote a book, in which he argued that the only way to strengthen the Muslim States was by borrowing ideas and institutions from Europe and that this did not contradict the spirit of the Sharia.[9]”
        link to en.wikipedia.org

        Then backtrack in history to, say, here:
        “Arab civilization: from the 8th century AD

        By the end of the 8th century a distinctive Arab civilization is emerging in widely separated regions. It is evident from the 8th century in Baghdad in the east and in Cordoba in the west. By the 10th century, between the two, there is a similar centre in the new city of Cairo.

        The shared characteristics of these great cities are Islam, the Arabic language and a tolerance which allows Christians and Jews to play a full part in the community. The results include an expansion of trade (making these places the most prosperous of their time, apart from T’ang China), and a level of scholarship and intellectual energy superior to contemporary Christian cities.”
        link to historyworld.net

      • Taxi
        September 19, 2012, 2:23 am

        Sean,

        You just absolutely refuse to see the distinction between islam and islamists.

        They really are not the same thing.

      • bilal a
        September 19, 2012, 4:35 am

        Regulation of speech in the Western ‘Democracies’ is pervasive and draconian but it exists under a formal declaration of speech freedom. How? Social life in and economic opportunity is subject to both administrative regulations inside large corporations with speech codes, and to non-formal regulation through media monitoring. One slip of tongue , or insppropriatness , or even wrongful social or business associations, can mean the loss of not just a job, but one’s entire ability to continue in his profession, and in some jurisdictions hate speech can land you in prison. And because one cannot re-make one’s reputation in a digital information apparatus (it stays, doesnt go away), often the punishment is a life sentence. My russian friends claim contemporary America is far more ideologically regulated and controlled than Soviet Russia.

        On the other hand , Islamic law permits different religions, but mandates mutual respect by regulating incitement formally. Social Social and business relationships, personal discussions, interpersonal associations are not subject to any restraints. So speech in the public sphere is regulated, but it is not totalitarian as in contemporary western culture. Moreover people often forget that citizenship in an Islamic state is voluntary, and Islamic law only applies to Muslims, non -Muslims often had their own sovereign justice systems , and those unhappy with the political system could emigrate freely. In todays nation state border corrals , one can emigrate, but most nations highly regulate immigration , making it often inpractical or infeasible.

        For those agnostics and atheists, perhaps its best to understand Islam as an evolved social hygiene which promoted certain virtues and punished social vices , deemed in the interest of both the individual and the community. It is a matter of social health , which created an expanding civilization that brought social and economic benefits that evidently byzantine feudalism did not. The West though gained significant competitive advantage for several centuries because Islamic law abhors colonialism , racism, narcotics traficking, and institutionalized racial slavery. Thus its social hygiene could not exploit the opportunities for wealth creation gained by these methods which are almost entirely responsible for Western eclipse of the Islamic civilization which began at about the time of british empires fruition in the New World amd in the sub continent. But moral evolution has brought Western civilization into line with Islamic values and these advantages have disappeared. The new values of secular cultural marxism which in some sense must be an expression of nihilism from the self destruction of the european cultures in the great wars have made Europe infertile and in suchdemographic decline it must import its loathed minorities. But its technological advantages remain.

        But at some point, six million Israelis will not be able to hold off several hundred million arabs and africans from just walking in , settling down, and calling it home. Time is not on their side. They lack social hygiene .

      • bilal a
        September 19, 2012, 4:39 am

        Raimondo is good on the sick totalitarian impulse of secularism within empire:

        In any case, the Standard is right about one thing: the riots now threatening the security of US diplomats throughout the Muslim world do indeed dramatize what distinguishes the region’s societies from our own, and it’s all about the role of religion in society.

        Yes, I know, it’s hard to believe: how could any civilized person take seriously the impulse to achieve transcendence and find meaning in the universe besides the pursuit of pleasure, fame, and money? I mean, really! How primitive can you get? Didn’t that kind of superstition go out with corsets, free silver, and the horse and buggy?

        A society in which blasphemy is impermissible is inconceivable to the warlords of Washington, who, after all, live in the same society you and I do: one in which religion is increasingly pushed to the margins and regarded by the country’s elites with ill-concealed contempt. It’s a culture in which gays want to get married, straights are setting records for divorce, and the way to appeal to women in an election year is to make it easier for them to kill their unwanted babies. It is, in short, a culture so far removed from the “medieval” world of our recently conquered Middle Eastern satraps that the distance can only be measured in centuries rather than mere miles.

        link to original.antiwar.com

      • Taxi
        September 19, 2012, 8:41 am

        Thanks bilal, I always learn worthy stuff from your posts.

      • marc b.
        September 19, 2012, 9:44 am

        Regulation of speech in the Western ‘Democracies’ is pervasive and draconian but it exists under a formal declaration of speech freedom.

        speech and conduct in contemporary america are rigorously regulated. not to sound like a geezer, but i am astounded at the level of intrusiveness people accept into every facet of their lives. whether it is something as slippery as the concept of free speech (think of the ‘demonstration’ pens set up at political conventions, and the host of silly, totalitarian local ordinances requiring someone to gain a governmental ‘permit’ to speak your mind in a public space), or the ideology of the insurance actuary that infects every act. when i was a kid (insert wagging boney finger here) my friends and i could walk into any public school at the end of the day and play basketball on the gym courts. now you have to apply for a permit and every ‘child’s’ activity is regulated by the ubiquitous presence of adults with their feckin’ antiseptic hand wash and oversized bicyle helmets.

      • seanmcbride
        September 19, 2012, 3:27 pm

        Taxi,

        Are you and bilal on the same page with this remark, which could have been penned by a Christian fundamentalist in the United States?

        It’s a culture in which gays want to get married, straights are setting records for divorce, and the way to appeal to women in an election year is to make it easier for them to kill their unwanted babies.

        What are your respective religious backgrounds?

      • Taxi
        September 19, 2012, 11:27 pm

        Sean,

        Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah?

      • seanmcbride
        September 20, 2012, 9:22 am

        Taxi wrote:

        Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah?

        In response to:

        “Are you and bilal on the same page with this remark, which could have been penned by a Christian fundamentalist in the United States?

        It’s a culture in which gays want to get married, straights are setting records for divorce, and the way to appeal to women in an election year is to make it easier for them to kill their unwanted babies.

        What are your respective religious backgrounds?”

        Want to take another shot at this? Are you and bilal for or against women’s rights, abortion rights, gay rights, etc.? Some of bilal’s remarks about “social hygiene” in another comment remind one of the language used by Nazis and fascists in the 1930s and 1940s.

        What do you think about the treatment of women in Islamist states like Saudi Arabia?

        Don’t all Abrahamic fundamentalists tend to look alike — Jewish, Christian and Muslim?

      • ColinWright
        September 20, 2012, 6:41 pm

        seanmcbride says: “Taxi,

        Are you and bilal on the same page with this remark, which could have been penned by a Christian fundamentalist in the United States?

        It’s a culture in which gays want to get married, straights are setting records for divorce, and the way to appeal to women in an election year is to make it easier for them to kill their unwanted babies.

        What are your respective religious backgrounds?”

        Lol. Li’l thought policeman sean at work.

        Sniff, sniff…heresy?

        Seriously, guy. Wouldn’t you be happier in Saudi Arabia or someplace?

      • ColinWright
        September 20, 2012, 6:52 pm

        bilal a says: “…A society in which blasphemy is impermissible is inconceivable to the warlords of Washington, who, after all, live in the same society you and I do: one in which religion is increasingly pushed to the margins and regarded by the country’s elites with ill-concealed contempt. It’s a culture in which gays want to get married, straights are setting records for divorce, and the way to appeal to women in an election year is to make it easier for them to kill their unwanted babies…”

        Yeah. Without passing a value judgement on it all, my own take is I don’t see why we’re so sure we’ve found the solution to all humanity’s ills.

        There’s a good deal about modern Western societies that makes it extremely questionable if they can endure — and yet we’re just absolutely sure everyone should imitate us.

        Well, maybe they shouldn’t imitate us. Maybe the jury’s still out on what actually works. I am in this society, and its values are ultimately my values — but that doesn’t mean they are the values.

        I very strongly incline towards letting other societies find their own way. If there’s some way we can clearly help — like say, helping Egypt over the economic bumps in the road that are pretty definitely in sight — then I’m for it, but short of them building ovens to enforce a ‘final solution to the Coptic problem’ I vote for treating whatever happens there as a spectator sport.

        I don’t think we have a clear set of answers — much less an exportable one. We’re still a work in progress ourselves — and it’s highly questionable towards what.

      • bilal a
        September 20, 2012, 7:51 pm

        Even the most conformed religiously devoted liberal has some remaining moral instinct, called fitra in Islam, and rebels at the horror of elective infanticide, ‘partial birth abortion’ of a viable baby, made a virtue in the contemporary culture of the West. (just one example of its sociopathy ) But this culture, birthed in the blood and ashes of hiroshima and dresden, has only existed for mere decades, microseconds in the life of the species. Huxley’s brave new World is an aberation from historical humanity and its culture is in its death throes, meaning even more dangerous to human happiness, but it will soon be replaced by a return to biological normalcy.

        Dont sell yourself short, you live a culture with values, but you dont have to share them, of be of them, indeed shun them, they are an enemy of you and your patrimony.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 20, 2012, 8:59 pm

        “Dont sell yourself short, you live a culture with values, but you dont have to share them, of be of them, indeed shun them, they are an enemy of you and your patrimony.”

        LMAO. “Patrimony.” Of course.

        Yeah, you can gain “moral” insight by listening to your silly “holy” books from the barbaric dawn of humanity, or you could just shake a stick at the sky or pray to a rock. It’s all about the same.

      • bilal a
        September 21, 2012, 12:30 am

        Woody ! :) Yes , Buddhist chants, Sufi prayer circles, meditation on the sky and stars, whatever helps u 2 connect, by all means.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 21, 2012, 9:35 am

        “Woody ! :) Yes , Buddhist chants, Sufi prayer circles, meditation on the sky and stars, whatever helps u 2 connect, by all means.”

        bilal, you mistake mockery for advocacy.

    • proudzionist777
      September 14, 2012, 2:00 am

      @Denis

      So Israel blamed an Israeli for the film?
      How cunning!

      • Taxi
        September 14, 2012, 8:28 am

        Denis,

        ” It’s about Arabic-speaking Israeli operatives with BIC lighters in their pockets and blood on their hands.”

        I’m with you on this, till I see irrefutable evidence that’s contrary. Also, Netanyahu was in the dog house with America for the 9/11 news cycle then poof he’s outta the news, replaced by Arab ‘rioters and murderers’.

        The story still stinks rotten like fish from the Salton Sea.

    • LeaNder
      September 14, 2012, 11:05 am

      well, the problem is these matters are flexible in their usage. Enter stage: Sheik Khaled Abdullah

      Seems–if you are looking for an Egyptian distributor–he is the “right” man.

      hat tip to Adam L. Silverman.

  22. ritzl
    September 13, 2012, 10:35 pm

    If only AK and MW had an MSM budget (and a staff of even tens).

    Great reporting.

  23. Carowhat
    September 14, 2012, 12:20 am

    This film (Innocence of Muslims) didn’t make Egyptians hate America out of the blue. Egyptians aren’t stupid. They understand that one half-assed film posted on the Internet doesn’t represent the views either of most Americans or their government. The real reason for the attacks isn’t the film. All you have to do is look at America’s approval ratings in Muslim countries. They’ve been in the toilet for years. Save with Turkey and, for that matter, many countries in Europe. Our problem is we keep bombing everyone (and doing Israel’s dirty work).

    If we waste our time worrying who made this film, we will end up ignoring why so much of the world hated us before anyone made this film.

    • ColinWright
      September 14, 2012, 4:03 am

      Carowhat: “…If we waste our time worrying who made this film, we will end up ignoring why so much of the world hated us before anyone made this film…”

      Yeah. My own variation on this theme is that Muslims react so ferociously because they feel Islam is threatened.

      …and they’re right. Islam is threatened. It’s threatened all the time. Quite openly.

      If we had powerful, secure Muslim polities that had decided for themselves exactly what the role of Islam in public life should be — and there was no suggestion that anyone from the Christian West had any thought of demanding that they change — then probably this pathetic little piece of rubbish would only have elicited contempt.

      Think about what our reaction would be if the situation were reversed: if some Islamic fundamentalist made a video suggesting that all Western women were whores and went on from there to whatever struck him as a pertinent libel.

      Well, we’d either ignore it or laugh at it. That’s not because we’re so wonderfully tolerant. It’s because we don’t seriously think Islamic fanatics are about to descend on us and force us to change our ways. Well, for the hundred to two hundred years, secular fanatics have attempted to do precisely that with large chunks of the Muslim world. We just got through with a major effort in Iraq. Groups like the Muslim Brotherhood are a response to a threat that is entirely authentic.

      The threat is real. Neither Ataturk nor the Shah of Iran were figments of the Muslim imagination.

      In this connection, notice that the reaction to the film has been most ferocious where the issue is in doubt — in Yemen, in Egypt, in Libya. In states where there’s a more or less stable understanding — whatever it is — the reaction has been much more mild. Supposedly, there were forty protesters in Tunisia.

      • seanmcbride
        September 14, 2012, 11:20 am

        ColinWright wrote:

        Yeah. My own variation on this theme is that Muslims react so ferociously because they feel Islam is threatened.

        …and they’re right. Islam is threatened. It’s threatened all the time. Quite openly.

        What is your impression of the Muslim mobs who are currently rioting in a hysterical way over a small video of no consquence? They come across as dangerous and violent lunatics.

        There is a great deal of pro-active fanaticism in all Abrahamic cults, including Islam. And these rioters in particular are especially appalling — certainly they are alienating most Americans and Europeans.

        I am not entirely convinced that the Muslim establishment doesn’t tacitly support these rioters. Egyptian president Morsi’s response to the riots has been anemic.

        Also, it’s curious that you easily understand one billion Muslims feeling threatened, but you can’t extend that same sympathy to a few million Jews who not long ago suffered the Holocaust.

      • Taxi
        September 14, 2012, 12:06 pm

        Sean,
        If you’ve been under the boot of imperialism and colonialism for the past 480 years and all you now have is your religion to cling to, a religion which is being “openly attacked” too, I’d imagine you too would be rioting like a “dangerous and violent lunatic”.

        Perspective my friend, perspective. Otherwise you’re sounding like you’re THE civilized and they are just the “savages”.

        Also, why should Colin “extend… sympathy” to anyone, be they jew or not, if they’re brutally oppressing some 7 million plus humans TODAY?

        You believe in the concept of the ‘eternal victim’?

      • ColinWright
        September 14, 2012, 1:59 pm

        God, you’re nauseating. Equally to the point, your witless pursuit of personal compulsions interfere with any intelligent conversation about anything.

      • seanmcbride
        September 14, 2012, 2:31 pm

        ColinWright,

        “God, you’re nauseating. Equally to the point, your witless pursuit of personal compulsions interfere with any intelligent conversation about anything.”

        You didn’t address any of the points in my comment in a reasonable and persuasive way — this by now has become a habit with you. You seem to be over your head in every topic that comes up between us.

        I repeat: there is a deep strain of fanaticism in Islam, as there is in nearly all Abrahamic cults (including Christianity and Judaism). The hysterical behavior of Muslim mobs in reaction to a a trivial video is appalling and disgusting from the standpoint of most Americans and Europeans. And your inclination to give these violent lunatics a break is certainly consistent with your passion to utterly destroy Israel and punish all Israelis.

        By the way, your overheated efforts to pin the video on “the Jews” has been blown to hell. Are you still irrationally clinging to this unsupported conspiracy theory?

      • seanmcbride
        September 14, 2012, 2:40 pm

        Taxi,

        I rarely watch cable TV news, but I did happen to turn on Rachel Maddow last night and got a good dose of the hysterical Muslim rioters whose minds were easily unhinged by a trivial video — and I recoiled in disgust. I am sure that most Americans and Europeans feel the same way — they detest bloodthirsty mobs that are whipped up into a frenzy over crackpot religious superstitions.

        Muslim fanatics may yet manage to pave the way for Islamophobia to go mainstream in the West in a big way and for Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer to achieve their fondest dreams. I am telling it like it is. These shrieking Muslims really get on the nerves of most Westerners.

        Yes, I know, most Muslims aren’t hysterical shriekers. Nor are most Jews Kahanists.

        Islam is more the product of an imperialist mindset than the victim of it. Islam has always been a militantly expansionist religion.

      • Taxi
        September 14, 2012, 3:40 pm

        Sean,

        If you really believe that the rioting was about the “trivial video”, then your posts on this topic really belong on yahoo comment section.

      • Mooser
        September 14, 2012, 7:32 pm

        Gee Sean, isn’t it great that what we see on TV and our reactions to it, completely and accurately reflects reality, and cannot be altered or minipulated? That way you always know you’re getting the straight dope on Rachel Maddow, or any other news show, for that matter.
        “Americans share nothing in common with them culturally or ideologically.”

        I don’t want to shock you, Sean, but what we share as human beings far outweighs the relatively miniscule contribution to our make-up made by ideology and culture. And we’ve had ourselves plenty or riots, and we need lots more of them.
        Can I make that clearer: There’s nothing wrong with them becuse they riot, there’s something wrong with us because we don’t.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 15, 2012, 1:46 am

        sean, what gives you the where with all to speak for most Americans and Europeans. do you think your arguments are not convincing enough with all your repetitious ‘hysterical,frenzy, crack pot, disgusting’ etc?

        you don’t speak for me or ‘most americans or europeans’. these are just rhetorical ploys.

      • ColinWright
        September 15, 2012, 2:44 am

        sean ,cbride says: “…Also, it’s curious that you easily understand one billion Muslims feeling threatened, but you can’t extend that same sympathy to a few million Jews who not long ago suffered the Holocaust…”

        I don’t understand. Are you referring to Jews in Israel? Where are there one billion Muslims who have taken somebody else’s home and are in consequence feeling threatened there?

        Alternatively, are you referring to Jews here in the US? Do they feel threatened? Honestly, I wasn’t aware…tell me about this.

      • seanmcbride
        September 15, 2012, 9:18 am

        Annie wrote,

        “sean, what gives you the where with all to speak for most Americans and Europeans. do you think your arguments are not convincing enough with all your repetitious ‘hysterical,frenzy, crack pot etc’?”

        People who whip themselves up into frenzied and violent *mobs* over affronts to their religious beliefs are, in my opinion, savages and wild beasts, no matter what their religious affiliation.

        And I will wager that most Americans and Europeans agree with me (a majority, more than 50%). Hillary Clinton, our secretary of state and a liberal Democrat, specifically used the word “mob” yesterday in expressing her disgust and disdain for the Muslim extremists who have been rioting in the streets all throughout the Middle East in response to a trivial Youtube video.

        Since I have been highly critical of Christian and Jewish fundamentalists and extremists here, and consistently so, why would you expect me to have any sympathy for Muslim fundamentalists and extremists? I don’t.

        Certainly the cultural values and agenda of the fanatical shrieking mobs that have been all over the world news in the last few days are radically out of sync with most Americans and Europeans — with the spirit of New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Boston, Chicago, Paris, London, Rome, Berlin, Stockholm, etc.

        With regard to Islam in general: has it in fact ever undergone an Enlightenment reformation over the last few centuries, like Christianity and Judaism? I am still looking into that issue. Perhaps Christopher Hitchens had a few valid points to make about Islam. Perhaps there is something to the Clash of Civilizations meme.

        By the way, I almost never agree with CAMERA, but they hit the mark yesterday:

        “The Media Runs With Sam Bacile and his Hundred Jewish Donors Story”
        link to blog.camera.org

      • Ohm
        September 15, 2012, 1:22 pm

        What is your impression of the Muslim mobs who are currently rioting in a hysterical way over a small video of no consquence? They come across as dangerous and violent lunatics.

        The violence of the mob is certainly not limited to Muslims … you can see it sparked in any number of contexts, from sporting events, to baroom brawls, to the lynchings of African Americans that happened in the South, to the riots that took place in the wake of the assasination of Martin Luther King.

        Even displayed in the denigration of a Parkinson’s victim at a Tea Party rally during the healthcare debates.

        The mob acts to dilute individual responsibility and escalates as more and more actors take on ever more provacative and dangerous behaviors with seeming impunity {at least temporarily}.

        Something the IDF surely knows about and {I would venture} banks on.

        Nothing scares me more than the mob … whatever its makeup.

      • andrew r
        September 15, 2012, 6:30 pm

        “Since I have been highly critical of Christian and Jewish fundamentalists and extremists here, and consistently so, why would you expect me to have any sympathy for Muslim fundamentalists and extremists? I don’t.”

        This is why I think criticizing religious extremism is beside the point. Maybe the Muslim victims of western warfare have more merit in going extremist than the Jewish fundamentalists who colonize Palestine and the Christian fundamentalists who set up military bases in the oil kingdoms. They are not reacting to a perceived threat to their religion; they are simply taking from others. The rioters have just cause to feel threatened.

        “Certainly the cultural values and agenda of the fanatical shrieking mobs that have been all over the world news in the last few days are radically out of sync with most Americans and Europeans — with the spirit of New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Boston, Chicago, Paris, London, Rome, Berlin, Stockholm, etc.”

        Outside of 9/11 and 7/7, if that even counts, none of those cities have been subject to any sort of military attack in recent memory. You’re making a good point indirectly here, the enlightened liberals with their high cultural values don’t know what it’s like to live in a warzone, where their home is literally the front. You can turn up your nose at the rabble and pretend there’s a higher plane of existence, but your life is free of violence for three and only three reasons:

        a. Someone got there before you and killed to get what they wanted
        b. Once they got it, they killed some more until no one could take it from them
        c. They engineered a civilization so their successors would not be threatened, and would even have the means to go out and repeat the process (Yeah, I’m assuming you’re American, but the model still works with slight variation depending on where you are).

        Until you are actually in the middle of that process, have actually been targeted by a military, you can not presume to judge those who have, no matter how wonderfully above religion you place yourself. And all the countries where these riots are taking place, they have that experience to varying degrees (Some directly, some by proximity).

      • ColinWright
        September 14, 2012, 2:41 pm

        Anyway, there goes the ‘Tunisia is calm’ end of this argument. This stuff is spreading everywhere.

        Assuming the idea was to alienate the West from the Muslim world but good, this trailer is proving outstanding — dollar for dollar, a spectacularly successful investment. I wonder if Romney will go for broke and start waving his arms about ‘the Islamic threat’ — and if he does, will Obama curl up into a little ball and make appeasing whimpering noises?

        One does hope there actually is a Christian God. I’d love to see the expression on the faces of the makers of this film when he sorrowfully turns away from them and lets them drop into the pit of eternal fire and all that.

      • ColinWright
        September 14, 2012, 2:48 pm

        I’ll point something else out.

        In an attempt to calm the flames, every representative of responsible Islam from the Muslim Brotherhood to the ruling party in Turkey has been denouncing the violence.

        …so where are the representatives of Christian evangelism and Jewish whateverism? The ADL? I’d have a lot more respect for them if some of them would step up to the plate and denounce the piece of filth that started this.

        Qui tacit consentet. Those who remain silent about this are tacitly condoning it.

      • Walid
        September 14, 2012, 4:39 pm

        “This stuff is spreading everywhere.” (ColinWright)

        Today, the KFC/Hardee’s place in Tripoli, Lebanon was torched because of the film. The Salafists there also tore down all the posters of the Pope that had been put up all over the city for the papal visit currently underway. The Salafists were the one and only group in Lebanon to not welcome the Pope’s visit. One of the warmest welcomes was by Hizbullah and its Manar TV that ran live coverage and discussions of the Pope’s visit all day including the mass and the signing ceremony of the exhortation.

        Elsewhere, Ismail Haniyeh asked that the US apologize for the film.

        And from Doha, Qatar, the International Union of Muslim Scholars, chaired by Yusuf al-Qaradawi (the Egyptian MB guru that has a weekly program on Jazeera), called on the Pope to apologize to Muslims for the actions taken by the Christian church against Islam throughout the history. The statement asks the Pope to voice regret for oppressions against Muslims during the Crusade and in Andalusia as well as Christians’ insults to Muslims in recent centuries the same way he apologized to the Jews for Christians’ oppressions against them. The statement evidently intended to embarrass was issued on Friday just in time for the Pope’s arrival in Beirut.

        The Pope’s visit will be unpleasant to Israel and its friends because the Pope will be delivering the Apostolic Exhortation asking for all countries to stop arming the Syrians and among its conclusions is one that Israel will surely not like; the Pope and the 120 bishops that came to these conclusions about Israel will surely be branded “antisemites”.

      • NickJOCW
        September 14, 2012, 2:55 pm

        Colin, Your point is well taken but I wonder if there is that much new about the pervasion of dominant cultures and the resistance they provoke. Until recently their progress, however remorseless, tended to advance in isolated incidents. Today it’s exacerbated by the speed of modern communication which flashes its images all over the globe in minutes. I confess to having seen only about 90 seconds of the trailer in question but my reaction was to imagine what sort of reception it might have had if presented (assuming it could ever get that far) to a studio fifty hears ago when I was in the movie business. There were probably just as many nutcases in those days but today there are no hurdles to cross to reach an audience, all that’s needed is to put it up on the Internet. Life has become a reality show. The fact that a story looks like it’s going one way today and quite another tomorrow simply sustains public interest. I read a quote recently of a young person to another, You mean there really was a real Titanic? Corrections don’t turn the clock back. Truth no longer has any immediate meaning, à la Cheney it’s become a quest for the relative leisure of we ‘historians’ while new episodes are being generated by the minute.

      • Taxi
        September 14, 2012, 3:01 pm

        Astute, Nick.

      • ColinWright
        September 14, 2012, 4:21 pm

        Ditto. We are now all at the mercy of the nutters. Anyone who sees a button to push can push it. Unlike as in the past…

        An illustrative anecdote comes from the Rape of Nanking. In that episode, the Japanese, in their general frenzy, sank the American gunboat Panay and then machine-gunned the survivors in the water.

        Well, they were filmed doing it. Of course, back in that day and age, the film had to be developed, physically moved to the United States, put into a newsreel, and distributed.

        The whole process took a while — and people had a good chance to look at what all this would mean. Roosevelt eventually decided that if this hit the screens, Americans would demand war — and he didn’t think war with Japan right then would be such a great idea.

        He got the distributor to pull the more damning shots.

        That wouldn’t happen now. It’d all be viral within hours, and Roosevelt would be having to run around to get in front of the parade demanding war now.

        It’s a new world — for better or for worse.

      • ColinWright
        September 15, 2012, 2:28 am

        NickJOCW: “Colin, Your point is well taken but I wonder if there is that much new about the pervasion of dominant cultures and the resistance they provoke…”

        I agree.

        However, now we maintain this delusion that our values, etc represent some kind of objective truth, and that it’s just self-evident Muslims should willingly submit. What makes matters worse of course, is that what they will in fact submit to in practice will not be Western Culture in its most edifying form, but something more like Mubarak’s Egypt.

        Although we seem to take it for granted that we represent a new, higher form of civilization than any that has ever gone before, we are in at least one sense no improvement at all. We’re possessed of exactly the same sense of certitude that a Spanish Conquistador (or a Muslim conqueror) had. We’re quite sure we’re got the one true light.

        In some ways, we were actually better in the past. The British ruled India quite successfully — largely because they tended to think twice before stepping on any native susceptibilities. The Muslims had (and have) definite strictures about respecting Christianity and Judaism and letting people continue to be raving Christians and Jews if they must (compare our attitude towards ‘Islamic fundamentalism — per se, why on earth shouldn’t they be ‘fundamentalists’ if they must?). We just assume all should happily rush to be exactly like us — and first become baffled and then outraged when this doesn’t happen.

        In a way, the ‘racism’ of the past could prove a lot more tolerant than the ‘egalitarianism’ of the present. For whatever reason, the British were perfectly willing to accept that the Indians were going to keep being Indians. For all our professed tolerance, we just don’t seem to be able to quite wrap our heads around the fact that most Egyptians might genuinely want a country that accords with the guidelines set forth in the Qur’an.

        We’re real tolerant. All people have to do is ape us perfectly, and there’ll be no problem. At least gimme somebody who’s honest with themselves about what they’re demanding. ‘Accept baptism or I’ll chop off your head’ at least has the virtue of frankness.

      • NickJOCW
        September 15, 2012, 3:27 am

        Colin, although indeed a new world much is recognisable, in particular the potential for ever greater quasi-fascist controls presented as antidotes to anarchy and little resisted by large swathes of those clinging to domestic aspirations they don’t want threatened or destroyed. It used to be said of Mussolini, At least he made the trains run on time.

      • ColinWright
        September 20, 2012, 7:21 pm

        NickJOCW: ‘Colin, although indeed a new world much is recognisable, in particular the potential for ever greater quasi-fascist controls presented as antidotes to anarchy and little resisted by large swathes of those clinging to domestic aspirations they don’t want threatened or destroyed. ‘

        Yeah. I don’t like this trend at all.

        Worse, it’s often not even presented openly. The traditional terms are simply perverted.

        …and it happens without anyone noticing. Take ‘freedom.’ Half the time the word pops up now, what’s actually meant is something else entirely. Like I saw some feel-good bank commercial go by — in which policemen were described as ‘protectors of our freedoms.’

        Well…police are arguably a regrettable necessity — but ‘protectors of our freedoms’ they’re not.

  24. yrn
    September 14, 2012, 8:43 am

    I am been deleted as the rditors here are afraid of the truth.
    Look at all of you, you all cheered, when you had the few hours possibility that the maker of the movie is a JEWISH ISRAELI.
    Now that as always you found out that the Media fooled you again, you all just lost your oriantation.
    The comments are between “what can I say now” and “lets find the way to blame Israel after all”.
    What is wrong with my comments that make you so afraid.
    That’s the truth…. read the comments by yourself……..

    • John Smithson
      September 14, 2012, 11:16 am

      yrn –
      I myself send an email out about the AP and NYT reports when they first went out (I have an email list I keep updated on IP) and had to send an update once more info was known.

      At this point, I have to say I’m really not sure where the story ends. I have more questions than answers:
      Where did this guy get the money?
      Who actually made the film (he seems to be a con-man, not a film producer)?
      Who did the Arabic translation of the provocative trailer?
      Who put it out on YouTube at this time and why?
      Who exactly killed out Ambassador in Bengazi? Or aided/abetted in the killing?

      The situation is evolving at this time – I for one am waiting for the dust to clear (if it ever will). And for the record it was embarrasing to find out AP and NYT had it wrong initially. FWIW – I think the ‘felonious hooliganism’ charge might apply to the Basile guy (or whatever his name is) but I’m not a DA.

    • ColinWright
      September 14, 2012, 2:00 pm

      yrn says ” …What is wrong with my comments that make you so afraid.
      That’s the truth…. read the comments by yourself……..”

      Somehow I doubt that’s the explanation. And I don’t even need to check the comments in question.

      • yrn
        September 14, 2012, 2:41 pm

        ColinWright well you can doubt as much as you want, reality is, that I sent the same comment before and it was deleted…….
        So spare you doubts, I am sure you cheered with the rest for a short time.

      • ColinWright
        September 14, 2012, 4:25 pm

        yrn: “…So spare you doubts, I am sure you cheered with the rest for a short time.”

        Maybe you could find quotes to that effect, then. Actually, I immediately fastened on the Benghazi end of the whole production. The activities of a band of American Islamophobes have only interested me to the extent that exactly who they were seems rather inexplicably obscure.

    • MRW
      September 14, 2012, 4:44 pm

      @yrn,

      Mr. I Understand How News Cycles Work.

      How cute.

    • Annie Robbins
      September 14, 2012, 4:48 pm

      you all cheered, when you had the few hours possibility that the maker of the movie is a JEWISH ISRAELI.

      no, we didn’t ‘all cheer’, however i did mention the advantage of how this diversion, especially had it persisted for days, would provide an abundance of counter narrative shame posts. just like the one you’re peddling now.

    • American
      September 14, 2012, 6:13 pm

      “you all cheered, when you had the few hours possibility that the maker of the movie is a JEWISH ISRAELI.”…..yrn

      Nope, No one ‘cheered”. Yes–we were willing to believe right off the bat that there was some Israel connection because quite frankly we have all seen the slew of anti Muslim crap put out by the Isr-zio agents, Geller et al here in the US.
      It was reasonable to believe there was Jewish Israeli involved (as reported)
      But of you look back you will see that some even then said it was a bit fishy.
      So what you complaining about.

    • ToivoS
      September 14, 2012, 7:05 pm

      you all cheered, when you had the few hours possibility that the maker of the movie is a JEWISH ISRAELI.

      I may have overlooked it but didn’t notice any cheering. You are projecting.

      I was immediately suspicious of the “100 Jewish donors” statement. That sounded like a provocation. Must say it remains quite puzzling, still makes little sense, no matter what conspiracy theory I subscribe to.

  25. Kathleen
    September 14, 2012, 10:52 am

    A guest on the Diane Rehm show said the anti Muslim video had been up on you tube for a “long time” I thought I read it has been up for six weeks here at Mondoweiss. Cannot find exact figure on that. Anyone know?

    Another guest called it an “amateur video” Anyone else know about an “amateur video” that allegedly cost 5 million bucks?

    • seanmcbride
      September 14, 2012, 11:26 am

      Clearly the claim that it cost $5 million to make the video was a lie, along with all the other lies, including the claim that 100 Israelis or Jews financed the video. The AP and the Wall Street Journal have a lot of explaining to do for reporting this nonsense as facts.

      • Kathleen
        September 14, 2012, 11:54 pm

        Dr. Zbig mentioned the 5 million

      • seanmcbride
        September 15, 2012, 12:33 am

        Like the rest of us, apparently Zbig was misled by shoddy journalism as practiced by AP and the Wall Street Journal.

    • MRW
      September 14, 2012, 4:44 pm

      @Kathleen.

      Dinner.

  26. seanmcbride
    September 14, 2012, 11:02 am

    “Who made the anti-Muslim video? What L.A. County knows but is not saying”

    link to csmonitor.com

    After being contacted by the FBI and State Department, L.A. County has blocked public access to the permit that was issued to shoot at least part of the anti-Muslim film. Permits name a film’s writer, director, and producer, among others.

    ….

    “It seems that the individuals behind this film, whatever their original faith backgrounds, now subscribe to a puritanical and exclusionary form of Evangelical Christianity,” says Hussein Rashid, Fordham University theology professor and associate editor of Religion Dispatches, via e-mail. Mr. Klein, he points out, claims to hunt out Muslim terror cells and has protested not only Muslims, but Mormons as well.

  27. Mooser
    September 14, 2012, 11:05 am

    “What is wrong with my comments that make you so afraid.”

    People that can’t spell don’t frighten me. We all have our typos and “spelling devils”
    But people who can’t find the spel-chek button? That’s pretty scary.

    “read the comments by yourself……..”
    Out of the question. Reading Mondo comments requires a minyan!

    • yrn
      September 14, 2012, 2:43 pm

      Mooser……. as all the kids, once they don’t have what to say, they claim the weather is to blame……
      Yes Mister I am not AMERICAN……. do you have a problem with that.

      • MRW
        September 14, 2012, 4:45 pm

        Yes. Ecktually.

      • Mooser
        September 14, 2012, 7:37 pm

        “Yes Mister I am not AMERICAN……. do you have a problem with that.”

        Yes “yrn”, the fact that you have no good will towards Americans, and consider American Jews just chickens for you to pluck, has not escaped me. It’s quite evident in all of your comments. I don’t know where you are from, but if you are any indication, it’s a pretty awful place.

      • yrn
        September 15, 2012, 3:01 am

        Mooser
        “consider American Jews just chickens for you to pluck, has not escaped me.”
        Bringin up your disturbed confidence is your problem, I have much more respect for American Jews then you.
        You just chose to bring up the infantile accusation , that you have problems with those who don’t write English because they are not Americans …..
        Next time if you have something to write, get to the point, as you knew exactly what I wrote about, but you chose the stupid tactic of lets attack his English.

  28. bilal a
    September 14, 2012, 11:05 am

    Raimondo at antiwar.com is not buying the AP-DOJ coverup and the Weisenthal center claims of blood liberl. There is no evidence that the petty criminal just out of jail coptic fingered had any technical or financial abilities to make this film, and one ‘Jimmy Israel’ a veteran film producer who lived in europe for many years claims the funding was secured from the middle east by a organizer he wont name. Raimondo:

    “I didn’t know this movie, I didn’t work on it, I know nothing about it. They need to blame someone. I’m a gas station worker, how can I have made a five million dollar movie? I didn’t know anything about the movie. Now the FBI are having to come to protect me.”

    Yet none of this proves Nakoula is the creator and prime mover behind this cinematic provocation. The cell phone “Sam” used is associated with Nakoula’s address, but this is hardly definitive, especially given the lengths to which “Sam” went to remain anonymous. Nakoula undoubtedly had something to do with Innocence of Muslims, but whether he was the central player, a mere collaborator, or a cut out — a false flag planted to divert attention away from the real authors — remains to be seen. He had collaborators. Who are they?

    link to original.antiwar.com

    Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, says hes a patsy, who edited the film post production, who funded the 80 actors and 2 day shoot. Jimmy Israel knows.

    • seanmcbride
      September 14, 2012, 11:42 am

      bilal a,

      “He had collaborators. Who are they?”

      1. Steve Klein (Christian)

      2. Joseph Nassralla Abdelmasih (Christian)

      3. Jimmy Israel (?)

    • seanmcbride
      September 14, 2012, 12:06 pm

      Actually, Raimondo may have nailed it:

      The funny thing is, it could all boil down to nothing more than the antics of a bunch of Southern California right-wing lunatics having their idea of fun with YouTube — a lark that ended in tragedy.

      That sounds about right — so far, based on the available evidence.

    • Ellen
      September 14, 2012, 1:37 pm

      Or whoever filed the permit to shoot the film. Apparently that is a public record, but has been removed for now citing protection. But are Klein and Abdelmasih and Israel (if he exists) under protection?

      Either way, authorities know who filed for the permit and are not saying.

      link to csmonitor.com

  29. seanmcbride
    September 14, 2012, 11:10 am

    “Christian charity, ex-con linked to film on Islam”

    link to latimes.com

    Joseph Nassralla Abdelmasih of Media for Christ in Duarte and Nakoula Basseley Nakoula of Cerritos emerge as forces behind ‘Innocence of Muslims,’ the film whose trailer has incited violence across the Arab world.

    One ran a low-profile Christian charity from a sleepy suburb east of Los Angeles. The other was a financially strapped gas station operator just out of federal prison.

    In the last year, these men, both Egyptian immigrants, became unlikely collaborators in an endeavor that has shaken the stability of the Middle East.

    Joseph Nassralla Abdelmasih, the president of the Duarte-based charity Media for Christ, and Nakoula Basseley Nakoula, a convicted felon from Cerritos, emerged Thursday as forces behind “Innocence of Muslims.” An online trailer for the low-budget film incited violence in recent days across the Arab world.

    Media for Christ, whose stated mission is to “glow Jesus’ light” to the world, obtained permits to shoot the movie in August 2011, and Nakoula provided his home as a set and paid the actors, according to government officials and those involved in the production.

    NOT Jews, NOT Israelis, NOT Mossad.

    And there is not a shred of proof to support the claim that these two Egyptian Christians were manipulated by Israel or Mossad.

    • bilal a
      September 14, 2012, 12:31 pm

      It appears that the original claim of Israeli or Jewish involvement in the fim is not unlikely and contrary to the AP coverup claim that the prodeuction was entirely Christian. But only Jimmy Israel’s account suggests this, although corroborated by the fingered coptics claim to be apatsy.

      Jimmy Israel, religion unknown, attended anti Muslim seminars, and says a man not mentioned in the AP DOJ account, funded the film from overseas. The coptic and evangelical elements appear important in promoting the film, but dont appear linked to its funding or production. So who actually directed the film and funded it, most likely Jimmy Israel directed the 2 day shoot, and his friend, who he wont name, helped to fund it . Israel lived in Europe for several years working in film production and appears to be the only individual with film creation experience , and also claims computer skills on his website which would make him the likely post production editor, not the gas station ex con coptic.

      from buzzfeed:
      link to buzzfeed.com

      so we dont know at this point who actually funded the film and did the technical direction and editing,but the patsy ex con gas station dude claims hes a patsy.
      Jimmy Israel and his unnamed friend began the production and the coptics evangelicals promoted it at a later date as useful cutouts.

      “He allegedly went on trips to Egypt to “raise money” for the film. It’s hard to rule anything out; I can’t be sure, for example, that his friend he would not name, the original director, exists. Likewise, I can’t be sure that this isn’t part of some larger deception — anything from a prank to some kind of bizarre intelligence operation. It’s phenomenally strange.

      Israel insists that his anonymous friend, whose initial involvement with the film was overshadowed by Bacile, had no idea things would get out of hand. “Oh yeah, he’s got a lot of regrets,” Israel said. “He did it primarily for the money,” he claimed, though when asked how he thought a film like this could possibly be commercially viable, Israel conceded: “It’s very hard to imagine that any distribution company would distribute this.””[buzzfeed above link\

      Jimmy Israel’s unmentionable friend is not Sam Basile according to israel.Nor does he identify the coptic gas station patsy as Sam basile.

      What egyptian or other middle eastern sources funded Jimmy Israel and his anonymous friend in making this film ? But Jimmy Israel is also accused of con man like business ventures while the coptic patsy is a convicted check kiuter. The coptic is facing jail time for parole violations and at this point will cop a new plea in this venture taking the fall. The plea will read:

      ‘NOT Jews, NOT Israelis, NOT Mossad.’
      [seanmcbride]

      and to make such an allegation is blood libel according to the weisenthal center.

      • bilal a
        September 14, 2012, 12:43 pm

        read more on the mossad angle at raimondo antiwar. com, cannonfire blog, and buzzfeed on Jimmy Israel.

      • seanmcbride
        September 14, 2012, 2:47 pm

        bilal a,

        You still have not produced a single verifiable fact that connects this video to Israel or Mossad.

      • Taxi
        September 14, 2012, 3:29 pm

        And YOU don’t know the whole story either, Sean – like all of us. So your deductions are as invalid as Bilal’s – or as valid. Your pick.

        What Sean, you’re smelling nothing but roses? Think it’s already a closed-case? Where’s your list of American jewish zionists who fund islamophobic projects? Will your highness allow us to put their names, as well as others, on the Suspect List till more facts are established in this case?

        Some shape-shifting is going on before our eyes and you keep telling us: nothing to see here folks so let’s just ALL of us look over there.

        Well you can’t brow-beat curiosity outta the mind of man.

      • MRW
        September 14, 2012, 3:58 pm

        @Sean, who cares. It’s perception. It’s the initial news report that connected it to Israel. You’re being pedantic.

    • Denis
      September 14, 2012, 12:39 pm

      @Sean: And there is not a shred of proof to support the claim that these two Egyptian Christians were manipulated by Israel or Mossad.

      OK, well, there’s your proof. When there’s no proof Mossad did it, you know Mossad did it.

      LOL. Seriously, I still stand on the position that the question of who produced the film is a red herring. The only link between producing IoM and the riots is the Arabic dubbing, and that was obviously done by Mossad b/c there’s no proof Mossad did it. Hahahaha

      Just kidding. But seriously, the LAT article you link to by Ryan and Garrison has some good info. It is the first time I’ve seen how Nakoula Nakoula’s fed prison time fits into the timeline. Or maybe not. Read it carefully. They say he was released “last summer.” WTF does that mean? Summer of 2011? Or in the last few months, as in this summer just immediately past? (What is wrong w/ MSM reporters that they have to be such idiots?) If “last summer” means this summer immediately past, then N^2 could not have had much of a role — IoM was up-loaded to YT in July, 2012.

      Which brings us to YT. Why would this hateful, racist piece of video crap: #1 be allowed on YT, and #2 be allowed to remain on YT, particularly since inciting the deaths of innocent people?

      OK, well, who owns YT? Right, Google. What about Google? You guessed it!! A couple of Jews, Sergey Brin and Larry Page. Try uploading “The Innocence of Jews” on YT and tell me how you get on.

      The most important point remains not who produced IoM, but who used it to stir up the mobs. Ain’t the same people, I’ll guarantee you. Stirring up the mobs required some know-how and embedded human assets. The one thing we know about the IoM people, including Nakoula and his buddy Klein, is that they are thick as fence posts. Probably don’t have the brains between them to stir a cup of coffee.

      • seanmcbride
        September 14, 2012, 2:21 pm

        Denis,

        It’s a good idea to keep one’s eye on Mossad and Google (not necessarily in combination), but false accusations and weak conspiracy theories regarding groups and institutional players tend to undermine true accusations and strong investigative research.

        So, consistently apply the same rigorous truth standards to all claims and arguments in this sphere, even when doing so doesn’t reinforce your biases or aid your policy agenda.

        No doubt about it: the world is full of conspiracies, especially at the highest political levels. It is easy, for instance, to make an argument (if not conclusively prove), that Mossad was probably involved at some level in 9/11. But making a strong case and winning a conviction are two different things.

      • Denis
        September 14, 2012, 10:56 pm

        @Sean: false accusations and weak conspiracy theories regarding groups and institutional players tend to undermine true accusations and strong investigative research.

        Well said.

        But I am not proposing that Google is part of any conspiracy to make this sick-flick. What galls me no end is that they have not pulled it from YT, and that begs some questions about motives. I am a very strong advocate of people’s right to say what they want to say. But when virulent speech is getting good people killed, and when someone like Brin and Page can turn it off with a snap of their fingers, we are entitled — we are obligated — to wonder about their motives.

      • seanmcbride
        September 15, 2012, 12:18 am

        Denis,

        If one could data mine the entire set of videos that have been censored on Youtube, one might uncover indications of a narrow bias or agenda at Google.

        Google is one of the most powerful companies in world history — it has access to much of our most sensitive personal data. It should in fact be closely monitored by public watchdogs.

      • bilal a
        September 14, 2012, 2:33 pm

        Yes the coptic patsies could not have created the film nor promoted it abroad , they lack the technical skills, money, and contacts with foreign assets to get it on egypt tv. Apparently the FBI does think it is important who made the film as they are investigating the parameoung JAG tv show set where part of it was filmed. Did Paramoung have to give approval to the films use of the set is the question answered by the scrambling by the movie ranch and paramount to hid its involvement. Moreover there are names on the film permit which are not yet public and the Feds are concerned for these individuals safety. We dont know the nationality of Rene Veluzat, nor of Jimmy Israel who may be on the film permit.

        “The FBI and the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department were interviewing Veluzat on Thursday, and Veluzat told The Hollywood Reporter that both law-enforcement agencies instructed him not to speak with the press or other interested parties about what he knows about The Innocence of Muslims…..

        According to Film L.A., the county is holding the film permit under lock and key for now while it alerts those who are named on it that their identities — assuming they are real — are about to made public. Insiders say law-enforcement officials are concerned for the safety of the filmmakers once their true identities are known.”

        link to hollywoodreporter.com

        whose names, not currently public, are the Feds keeping under lock and key, and who asked them to conceal these names ?

      • ColinWright
        September 14, 2012, 4:44 pm

        I’m not too concerned about the video per se. That just goes to show that in this day and age, anyone with a few bucks can stir up shit. I suppose if I put my mind to it, I could kick off a significant race riot in Richmond.

        What interests me is that attack in Benghazi. How whoever it was was ready to go, had inside information and a team in place, etc.

        To me, it suggests that they knew this was coming down. Now, how did they know that? I think the release of the Arabic version on You-tube was timed to fit the attack.

    • Blake
      September 14, 2012, 12:43 pm

      Through deception thou doest wars (& sectarian violence). Love your celt name. Very deceptive.

  30. seanmcbride
    September 14, 2012, 12:28 pm

    “It wasn’t the Jews this time”

    link to haaretz.com

    On Wednesday afternoon a collective sigh of relief could be heard in cyberspace. Enterprising reporters from half a dozen newspapers and websites had finally done the research and reached a conclusion: It wasn’t the Jews.

    The shadowy “Israeli-American real estate developer” who had supposedly received $5 million from “100 Jewish donors” to produce a movie portraying the Prophet Mohammed as a violent and stupid child-molestor was actually a convicted scammer from California belonging to another faith with a grievance against Islam – the Coptic Christian Orthodox Church.

    So far, all those who have been identified in helping him produce and distribute the movie are not Jewish either. So there you have it, another blood libel against the Jews exposed in less than 24 hours, thanks to the power of the Internet.

    • MRW
      September 14, 2012, 4:01 pm

      So there you have it, another blood libel against the Jews exposed in less than 24 hours

      Oh! Such a sigh of relief!

  31. seanmcbride
    September 14, 2012, 12:34 pm

    Getting a handle on Jimmy Israel:

    “Muhammed Movie Crew Member Sheds Light On Film’s Production”
    link to buzzfeed.com

    Israel, who said he worked previously in theater and film production, said he came to the project, which was at the time called Desert Warriors, through his friend, the original director, who he refused to name. “I was going to produce it for him,” he said, “but the original producer came back.”

    Israel said he initially auditioned for a part in the movie, where he met a man who referred to himself as Sam Bacile or Bassiel. He was then asked to help with the production instead. He read the script, which he described as “awful — terribly bloody,” but hoped he might be able to influence the film as the production progressed. At the time he was told by his friend — the director — and Bacile that the film was about the historical persecution of Coptic Christians. “That’s what I understood it was about,” said Israel, who noted that there were flashbacks to Muhammed “being a hypocrite,” in the script, but nothing quite as inflammatory as what made it to YouTube. An actress involved in the production told Gawker that the script she worked from had very little to do with Islam or Muhammed. Indeed, the video on YouTube is crudely dubbed over at many points.

    Israel’s time on the production was early and short: “I worked for two days going over the script,” says Israel, “finding the casting venue, and putting the ad in Backstage, and trying to find a SAG deal.” (BuzzFeed located him because a casting call for the film features a jimmyisrael.com email address).

    The Mossad mastermind behind this video? I think not. Get real.

    • bilal a
      September 14, 2012, 2:51 pm

      Jimmy Israel is a film industry wanna be, sometime computer consultant, and most likely directed the film for two days as he claims which was all that was needed for the pathetic leering Pamella Geller like video. He is also accussed of involvement in some sort of financial scam pyramid scheme. He is no Mossad mastermind, and like the coptic gs station patsy easily discredited and distanced from. I would like to know who hired him, his anonymous unnamed friend, and whther his friend hired the coptic patsy, and where his friend went overseas to get funding. Its doubtful that the coptic elite in Egypt would fund this movie as he suggests.

      But I dont understand why both Sam basile, a heavy accented white haired man, and Klein the evangelical, would both tell AP that Bsile was Israeli and the film was Jewish funded. To protect coptics , not likely as that connection was immediate.

      Funding and origins of the film from an overseas anonymous friend who has left the country may also be another lie.

      But we know that Haaretz has not identified the ethnicity of Jimmy Israel as Jewish and Israel describes himself as a pacifist not connected to organized religion ( not coptic or evangelical apparently), but this is most likely an oversight from the weisenthal center which exonerates Jewish complicity in the film production , despite Israels involvement and the script being a rehad of Jeiwsh funded Islamphobic hate memes.

      I doubt the release of the film permit names will indicate any Jewish or Israeli invovlement , and Israel having attended anti Muslim seminars doesnt make him an extreme right zionist per se.

      Also Jimmy Israel’s story of an anonymous original creator and funder who got money overseas and has now left the country may also be a lie, or it could be relvant to the base foundations of this agit prop effot that killed 4 american diplomats. Certainly the FBI is inviestigating still at the rene vezulat paramount bagdad set.

  32. bilal a
    September 14, 2012, 4:59 pm

    New Documents leaked reveal idenity of unknown man involved in pre production and direction, confirms pre production involvement of ‘Jimmy Israel’ who now describes himself as ‘raised Jewish’ . Israel denies ‘Sam basile’ is the coptic gas station ex con patsy now fingered by AP and DOJ, says that he was introduced to Sam by the original organizer of the film but does not say this is unknown participant and director, Robert Brownell, aka Robert Brown, aka Alan Roberts. Brownell’s name may be on the film permit under lock and key at the request of the FBI and state dept.

    link to vice.com

    No retraction from Haaretz of weisenthal center yet on blood libel accusations.

    • ColinWright
      September 14, 2012, 5:07 pm

      bilal says: “… Israel denies ‘Sam basile’ is the coptic gas station ex con patsy now fingered by AP and DOJ, says that he was introduced to Sam by the original organizer of the film but does not say this is unknown participant and director, Robert Brownell, aka Robert Brown, aka Alan Roberts…”

      I’d say that sums it all up pretty well.

      • NickJOCW
        September 15, 2012, 5:19 am

        Hovering around the fringes of any Hollywood gathering are well-fed men of doubtful ethnic origin whose eyes glaze, hands perspire, and pocket books open at the mere sight of a celebrity; even an extra can glow, …and this is Tamara, she was in Titanic, you know…Wait, I see someone over there I know you’ll just love to meet… There exists an entire subculture of wannabe directors, actors and so on, and when they latch on to one of the above something like this nonsense is not unlikely to emerge. The trailer may well have arrived on the Internet with no religious or political motivation but simply as part of an effort to get a disingenuous project off the ground. Once there it’s available to all sorts of mischief makers and the 64 question may be not who made it but who came upon it and exploited it. They are unlikely even to know each other which could explain some of the confusion everone seems to share.

    • bilal a
      September 14, 2012, 8:51 pm

      cannonfire has an update on the film content suggesting non coptic origins:

      link to cannonfire.blogspot.com

      • bilal a
        September 14, 2012, 10:03 pm

        Israeli organized crime fugitive tied to anti Muslim film Coptic co producer ?

        The allegged Sam Basil film creator was evidently a federal informant and identified the organized crime ring leader as one ‘Eiad Salameh’ perhaps ‘Eiad Salameh Shu’aybat’ alleged to be a us fugitive , and holder of a forged israeli passport. A fake terrorist Walid Shoebat, turned christian used by the Gellerspencers in Islamaphobic circles, was exposed by the Jpost, but identified his cousin Eiad as the financial terrorist wanted by the FBI. If this is the same Eiad, the anti Muslim hate film worked for an Israeli mafia fugutive from the usa, whose couisn was a noted Islamaphobic speaker.

        —————-
        Nakoula identified the ring’s leader as Eiad Salameh, a notorious fraudster who has been tracked for more than a decade by state and federal investigators.
        link to thesmokinggun.com

        The Palestinian “terrorist” turned Zionist -cousin is coptics boss in crime ring tied to israel
        link to mtakbar.wordpress.com

      • seanmcbride
        September 15, 2012, 12:27 am

        Where is Eiad Salameh’s connection to “Innocence of Muslims” in particular? But this is getting a bit closer, possibly.

      • seanmcbride
        September 15, 2012, 10:24 am

        bilal a,

        Actually, Joseph Cannon develops some interesting arguments in the Cannonfire article you cited:

        “Why I believe that Mossad was behind “Sam Bacile””
        link to cannonfire.blogspot.com

        The highlights:

        The film itself testifies to the truth of “Bacile’s” original statement that the movie was backed by Israeli funders. If you watch the segment uploaded to YouTube, you’ll see that much of its 13 minute running time is devoted to demonstrating the superiority of Jews to Muslims.

        We also know that a man named Morris Sadek translated the film into Arabic and used it to inflame passions in the Middle East. The deaths and other outrages are, to a large extent, his doing.

        Sadek claims to represent diaspora Coptics; he even runs a two-man organization devoted to Coptic causes. His American operation seems to be backed by a great deal of money — god only knows from where. Various websites convey the impression that his is a voice which commands respect in the Coptic community.

        But this is all a lie.

        Sadek is not admired by Egyptian Copts, who consider him a dangerous rabble-rouser. They feel — correctly — that his anti-Islamic zealotry has placed the Coptic community in a very precarious situation. Sadek’s true loyalties go toward people like Pamela Geller, not to the Coptic Pope.

        A moment’s thought will tell you that everything Sadek has done was designed to endanger Copts, not to secure their freedom from oppression. This man knows that the Egyptian revolution will be discredited if members of the Muslim Brotherhood can be riled up to take Coptic lives.

        Why does Sadek seek to inflame a war of religion, a war which the Copts can never win? Because Sadek’s true loyalty is to the war-loving neocons in both the American Republican Party and the Israeli Likud Party. These people oppose the Arab spring; they wish Mubarak had never fallen.

        Sadek makes no secret of his loyalty to Israel. Take, for example, this statement:

        “Israel is the liberation of the West Bank and Gaza, the Palestinians and the liberation of Jerusalem from the Arab invaders, to be the united capital of the State of Israel Hebrew!”

        He goes on and on like that, singing the praises of Eretz Israel and Zionism.

        My point is this: The quasi-worshipful attitude toward Jews demonstrated by Sadek — and by the film Innocence of Muslims — is not congruent with the feelings of many within the larger Coptic community. The things that Sadek says are not what most Copts would say.

        And yet all of the “Copts” involved with that movie are pro-Israel, pro-GOP, pro-neoconservatism.

        Given the extremely positive portrayal of Jews in the film, it is impossible to believe that “Sam Bacile” spoke about Israeli funders because he wanted to smear the Jews.

        I maintain that this incident was engineered to push Mitt Romney into the oval office. I believe that the people behind this operation are motivated by Romney’s oft-stated desire to go to war with Iran — a war that can benefit no-one outside of Israel. (Except for American military contractors!)

        Romney’s foreign policy advisers are all neocons. If you liked Dubya’s invasion of Iraq, you’ll love what that crew has in mind.

        So: who exactly is Morris Sadek? Israeli op? Mossad op? Neocon op? Or not?

  33. seanmcbride
    September 14, 2012, 7:10 pm

    Filling in more blanks: this was overwhelmingly a Christian, not a Jewish op, with Media for Christ being the central organization behind the project.

    Estimated cost of the video: $100,000, not $5 million.

    “Players behind anti-Muslim film that incited protests in Mideast linked by anger toward Islam”

    link to calgaryherald.com

    Most of “Innocence of Muslims” was shot in about two weeks inside a squat warehouse that serves as the offices of Media for Christ, according to Eric Moers, who served as chief electrician for the production.

    Moers said the film took 15 to 16 days to shoot and 90 per cent of the work was done at the Media for Christ studios. He said one day was spent at a movie ranch in Santa Clarita, and one day was spent filming at the home of the man he knew as Bacile.

    “I’d say this was the most unprofessional professional film I’ve worked on,” said Moers, who estimated the cost of production at $100,000. “I don’t think anyone took it seriously.”

    He said he was paid with a check issued on the account of Abanob Basseley Nakoula, the 20-year-old son of the purported filmmaker.

  34. seanmcbride
    September 14, 2012, 7:27 pm

    More background on Jimmy Israel, who comes across as a reasonable and honest guy.

    You would have to be an obsessive Judeophobe to keep trying to milk the nearly non-Jewish angle on this story. And Egypt is the nation that keeps popping up here — not Israel.

    link to vice.com

    Do you have any religious affiliation?
    I’m mostly Buddhist but I was raised Jewish.

    What do you think about the initial rumors that said the film was financed by wealthy Jewish backers?
    That’s ridiculous. That’s totally, totally ridiculous. Sam himself was the person who put up the money, maybe $90,000, maybe 100, but you know, I don’t really know, something like that. And that’s all that was spent on the film. It’s a terrible film. I saw the clip on YouTube.

    There have been allegations that it has been redubbed. I know you don’t have knowledge of this specifically because you weren’t—
    No, I don’t have knowledge of that. What I think is that Sam Bacile went to Egypt. He told me he was trying to raise money. I don’t know why, how, and so forth, but he might have shown this picture and some people in Egypt might’ve said they wouldn’t give money out but they took a copy of it and dubbed it, that’s my guess. But did Bacile himself do this? I don’t know. Because, as I said, the name of the character [in the original script] was not Mohammed, it was George.

    • Denis
      September 15, 2012, 3:14 pm

      Keeps going back to Egypt? Yeah, b/c of your attempts to get the Jews as far away from this as possible. Geller is really Egyptian, alright.

      You’re gonna’ rely on Jimmy Israel’s comments about what “Sam. M. Bacile” said?? You’re gonna’ rely on his: “Who me? No, man, I’m not a Jew, I’m a nice Buddhist boy and a Sunday school teacher.” Right . . . and Goldberg is Hindu.

      Jimmy Israel comes across as “reasonable and honest” ??? WTF, man?? Conmen always come across looking reasonable and honest. If you believe that Israel, who is in this thing with both feet, is a nice guy and that proves the Jews aren’t a part of this, then you’re next going to tell us that Alan Roberts (aka Robt. Brownell) is Obama’s anti-porn czar. And Eiad Salameh is another Buddhist Sunday school teacher. And the moon is made of (kosher) blue cheese. Quit sniffing the glue, man, and use it to put the pieces together.

      Read that interview w/ Israel on vice.com. Only his mother could read that and not come to the conclusion that he is a certified shyster. He claims to have no information about anybody, just worked on the flick for “a couple of days,” has no connections to it or to anyone connected to it — but when asked if it was backed by Jewish money, the guy is suddenly brimming over with details of where the money came from — all of it from Sam M. Bacile, whom he presents as an actual person. Yeah . . . Ok. This guy is making you look like either a sucker or an undercover neocon.

  35. seanmcbride
    September 14, 2012, 7:39 pm

    “Sam Bacile” is probably the son of Nakoula Basseley Nakoula — and he is still not Jewish or Israeli — he’s a Coptic Christian.

    link to buzzfeed.com

    The real name of “Sam Bassiel”, director of “Innocence of Muslims”, is Abanob Basseley Nakoula and he lied to the actors in this film. Originally titled “Desert Warrior”, we were only given a few pages of dialogue at a time and on all the scripts and casting notices the lead character was named “George”. References to Muhammad and Islamic Terrorism were added with low-quality audio dubs and selective editing in post production, as should be obvious.

    I will always defend the right to freedom of speech. But speech is something you stand behind. “Sam Bassiel” wouldn’t even stand behind his scripts. We, the actors, feel violated, tricked and lured into a project under false pretenses and then used to make a political statement we do not agree with. Our faces were put in the spotlight by Abanob Besseley Nakoula in an undeniably obvious attempt to agitate and incite violence from those who would be most offended by his message. Yet, like a coward, he is not showing his face. He can hide, but we cannot. Our faces are being broadcast globally in a film that was a complete mystery to us during production.

  36. ColinWright
    September 14, 2012, 7:53 pm

    There is another aspect of this that struck me as I was watching updates on all the violence.

    Whatever the intentions of those who posted the trailer, it’s backfiring.

    This is no longer about the the trailer. The ‘Arab Spring’ is drawing renewed strength from it, and even expanding to become the ‘Muslim Spring.’

    …and it’s mattering increasingly less whether we approve. They’re losing interest in our seal of approval. They are attacking the symbols of their oppression. What will come out of this I’m not sure — but I doubt if we’ll get to say.

  37. bilal a
    September 14, 2012, 11:33 pm

    Islamaphobes Coptic Media for Christ and evangelical Klein promoted the anti Muslim film originated in pre production by Jimmy Israel , and directed by Alan Roberts a soft core porn director who hired adult film actresses for the production Roberts is apparently not a Christian evangelical motivated by religious defense of coptics in egypt.

    link to gawker.com

    No discussion of the religious ethnic background of Jimmy Israel or Alan Roberts nor of the Isaeli linked coptic Nakoula boss, Eiad, in his criminal mafia operation, that made Nakoula a federal informant. Eiad may have fled to Israel.

    • seanmcbride
      September 15, 2012, 12:30 am

      bilal a,

      You are doing a great job of staying on top of this story. Who knows — the facts may develop to support your suspicions.

      • bilal a
        September 15, 2012, 10:38 am

        I can’t find a single Islamaphobe hater in the group that produced and directed this film, and all claim to be unaware of its purpose, although Jimmy Israel said he recognized the Prophet saws in the script and knew about Islam from ‘seminars’. Who brought together this cabal of schlocky dead beats and confidence men seems to a fourth man whom Israel wont identify. Most likely the estimated production costs of 100K came from outside this group since all these hard up characters were working for money promissed not ideology. I wonder if Media for Christ, the coptic group affiliated with production, was also a duped stand in patsy organization.

        At this point we dont know who funded or brought together the team to create this film. Information was cleverly compartmentalized , and deniability is a characteristic of evey participants contribution. Perhaps stephen goldberg the exec producer may unravel the enigma, or the LA film permit, but I doubt it, the whole thing was executed flawlessly ; all the buffoons involved are hanging out to dry and no one is the wiser.

      • seanmcbride
        September 15, 2012, 11:14 am

        One should take note that Jeffrey Goldberg has shown no serious interest in getting to the bottom of who was really behind this project. Perhaps he would prefer that no one go there — let it remain a mystery.

        One imagines that the Obama administration *will* be motivated to discover the truth — and it possesses the full investigative powers of the American government to do so.

    • seanmcbride
      September 15, 2012, 12:42 am

      bilal a,

      Alan Roberts apparently isn’t an Islamophobe.

      link to gawker.com

      The backstory behind how Roberts became director of Innocence of Muslims is still unclear, like so many things about the film. We’ve tried to reach Roberts, but his business associate told us he “turned off his phone” soon after protests broke out over the film and is laying low. But he said Roberts was “non-political” and did not have any apparent anti-Islam feelings. Roberts may have been duped by the film’s producer in much the same way as the rest of the cast and crew. They believed they were participating in a period piece about ancient Egypt and had no idea the movie would be edited and dubbed into a piece of Islamophobic propaganda.

      “They redubbed it, they brought in the actors, put in new sounds, changed the names,” said the business partner. “And this was done later, before it was initially released. Of course Alan had nothing to do with it.”

      An actress who worked with Roberts on Innocence of Muslims agreed that he had nothing to do with the political bent of the film.

      • bilal a
        September 15, 2012, 10:41 am

        The producer Price who is speaking for Alan Roberts used Roberts as a co-producer on one of his films on IMDB recently. I wonder if Price introduced Roberts to the unknown backer of this film.

  38. ColinWright
    September 14, 2012, 11:59 pm

    The crazies are really starting to come out of the woodwork on this one. This from the NYT’s ‘Lede':

    “A Hindu group plans to screen the anti-Islam film in Toronto later this month, The Toronto Star reports.

    “A lot of people want to see this film,” Ron Banerjee, from a group he calls Canadian Hindu Advocacy told the newspaper. “We are looking at showing the film at a Hindu temple,” he added.

    Canada’s National Post reported that Mr. Banerjee’s other activities aimed at provoking Muslims include organizing a “Walk Your Dog in Front of a Mosque” event…

    …Ms. Teitel, who wrote about Mr. Banerjee’s anti-Islam campaigns last year, reminds readers that he once said, “In its entire history, Islam, the Islamic civilization, has invented and has contributed less to human advancement than a pack of donkeys. That’s the truth.” He also declared: “We’re not going to get anywhere by having one Geert Wilders in one small country, Holland. What we need is thousands, thousands, and thousands of Geert Wilders everywhere in the world.”…”

    Sort of a variation on MLK’s ‘I have a dream’ speech. Think of it — a world filled with thousands of little Geert Wilderses.

  39. traintosiberia
    September 15, 2012, 3:59 am

    Weisenthal center has come out with allegation of blood libel.Its disingenous and deceptive. This center has done a lot in the past to earn that blood libel charge.It has even screened the films 3rd Jihad depicting the gory preoccupation of Islam from the time of its inception with the sole purpose to initiate legalized violence and persecution of muslims in US ,Canada,and UK and validate nuts like Pastor Jones.

  40. Citizen
    September 15, 2012, 11:04 am

    The US government and American culture have a de facto double standard when it comes to applying free speech protection to jews or muslims, and as well, when it comes to application of the exception to the rule embodied in the “fighting words” doctrine:
    link to counterpunch.org

    Note that Google, as of August 1 last, has very promptly removed well over 1700 video and closed their associated accounts because the videos were alleged to engage in “holocaust denial” or “anti-semitism.” I guess nakba denial or islamophobia are not recognized criteria for removal? What if two Arabs owned/controlled Google?

    • ColinWright
      September 15, 2012, 5:32 pm

      Citizen says: “Note that Google, as of August 1 last, has very promptly removed well over 1700 video and closed their associated accounts because the videos were alleged to engage in “holocaust denial” or “anti-semitism.” I guess nakba denial or islamophobia are not recognized criteria for removal? …”

      Hm. Anyone want to counter that?

      My own personal position is that if someone wants to post something like this ridiculous trailer they should have the legal right to do so — but then, if they want to engage in Holocaust Denial, they should have the right to do that as well.

      Note that in both cases, merely because something is legal does not make it right.

  41. ColinWright
    September 15, 2012, 3:45 pm

    Through all this, I’ve been keeping a weather eye on the ADL.

    To be frank, I don’t think much of the ADL — at least as it has been under Foxman’s leadership. However, I was always prepared to concede that it might be internally consistent — that it might actually adhere to its own principles, if not necessarily to mine.

    And indeed, at times, it has suggested it could be. It has denounced examples of clear race-baiting, defamation (!), etc — even when Jews weren’t the target. There was some suggestion that it could rise above above a purely tribal agenda — fight bigotry period.

    So I did want to see if it would denounce this film.

    It hasn’t. It refers to it as ‘the hateful anti-Islam movie, “Innocence of Muslims,” ‘ — but solely in order to denounce those who took the producer at his word when he claimed to be an Israeli Jew. The film itself hasn’t been denounced prominently at all.

    And assuming the ADL has any pretensions to universal moral stature at all, this is pure hypocrisy. For ‘The Innocence’ is an example of mindless defamation in its purest and most prominent possible form. It’s inflaming a fifth of the globe — and the ADL is sitting on its hands.

    Well, so much for the ADL.

  42. ColinWright
    September 15, 2012, 3:58 pm

    Anyway, for any bulimics out there…

    If you need to lose your lunch, the barfmeister is speaking.

    Alan Dershowitz appears in Haaretz:

    link to haaretz.com

    It should be a tour-de-force of hypocrisy. Since I’ve already exhausted my free articles, I’ll just have to assume that, though. Oh well. I guess I’ll just have to hold on to my breakfast…

  43. dbroncos
    September 15, 2012, 7:37 pm

    Demonstrations and riots in some 20 countries! India, Maylaysia, Pakistan, Bahrain, Tunisia, Libya, Nigeria, Palestine, Syria, Jordan… to name a few. This is living, stone throwing, fire bombing proof of the thin ice Uncle Sam is walking on in that vitally important part of the world. Surely the panic button has been set off in D.C. Oil is more important than Israel will ever be by a factor of a zillion. If we have to go to war to win back control of “our” oil from underneath their sand that will surely spell the end of American Empire which is already living entirely on borrowed money.

    • dbroncos
      September 15, 2012, 7:52 pm

      The film is merely the catalyst. The real story is the rage and pure hatred of America that exists not just in the hearts of a small group of “islamofascist terrorists” but in the general population of the Arab and Muslim world. When the questions about “why?” start getting asked I don’t think “they hate us cuz we’re free” will be nearly as passable as an answer this time around.

    • seanmcbride
      September 16, 2012, 1:45 pm

      dbroncos,

      You just summarized the basic strategic situation in one brief perfect paragraph:

      Demonstrations and riots in some 20 countries! India, Maylaysia, Pakistan, Bahrain, Tunisia, Libya, Nigeria, Palestine, Syria, Jordan… to name a few. This is living, stone throwing, fire bombing proof of the thin ice Uncle Sam is walking on in that vitally important part of the world. Surely the panic button has been set off in D.C. Oil is more important than Israel will ever be by a factor of a zillion. If we have to go to war to win back control of “our” oil from underneath their sand that will surely spell the end of American Empire which is already living entirely on borrowed money.

      But make no mistake: the Israeli government, the Israel lobby, neoconservatives and Christian Zionists will not back off from attempting to drive the United States into a grand war against the entire Muslim world — they could care less about the American interest and American access to strategic resources and markets.

      Contrary to Chomskyan economic theory, this holy crusade on behalf of Greater Israel and Zionism has absolutely nothing to do with rational capitalist calculations. So batten down the hatches and hold on to your hats. It is going to be a stupendous mess, with mushroom clouds at the end of the tunnel. Call it Armageddon, it you’d like. George W. Bush described it as the Battle of Gog and Magog.

      The alternative to this nightmare scenario? Radically reform Zionism, or expunge Zionism from American politics altogether.

  44. bilal a
    September 15, 2012, 11:05 pm

    ADL and Weisenthal center both deny the film was created by the Jewish funded Islamaphobic right, but the coptic’s claim that it was created by an Israeli American with Jewish funding has not yet been disproved or even disavowed by the man who made the statement. We dont know who the listed exec producer Stephen Goldberg is, nor do we know if Jimmy Israel is dual citizen Israeli, and if he denied it, how would we prove otherwise?

    And we have no information on the funding of this film or of the film’s promoter ‘media for Christ’, which is linked to Pamela Geller.

    All of this information is available to the Department of Justice but is under lock and key by the request of the US State department.

    • hophmi
      September 16, 2012, 4:03 pm

      “the Jewish funded Islamaphobic right”

      Another antisemitic smear. Most of the Islamophobic right is Christian, not Jewish.

      “ut the coptic’s claim that it was created by an Israeli American with Jewish funding has not yet been disproved or even disavowed by the man who made the statement. ”

      Sorry, conspiracy theorist. But when you make a completely baseless claim about 100 Jews funding something like this, it is not our job to disprove the claim. It is your job to prove it. You haven’t. So stop repeating it as if you were a Salafist newspaper.

      “All of this information is available to the Department of Justice but is under lock and key by the request of the US State department.”

      Again, conspiracy theorist, stop making things up. When you have a FACT, get back to us. No one at the Justice Department is going to prosecute anyone simply for making a film that is critical of Islam. It would be against the First Amendment to do so. If you’re not American and do not understand how the First Amendment works, I’m enlightening you.

      • bilal a
        September 17, 2012, 3:41 am

        Yes, yes, yes. I agree that even if Geller and Spencer raise most of the funds for the Islamphobic supremacism , that doesnt mean all of the funds come from radical zionists, indeed with 98% of the population non-jewish this would be almost impossible, unless total funding came from large donors like Adelson who pledgedn 100 million to defeat Obama . And I dont know for sure if Geller-Spencer have 100_ Jewish donors, I would suppose that the number is much higher, perhaps tens of thousands, joined by evangelicals of course. I also agree that the Department of Justice will not likely prosecute the Geller Stockholm network for its fundraising for this film, ir proven, even if it was designed to kill Americans abroad to help Israel, as the producer first said.

      • Taxi
        September 17, 2012, 4:02 am

        hops,

        Please do introduce us to a single fully-fledged jewish zionist who is NOT an islamophobe.

      • seanmcbride
        September 17, 2012, 11:34 am

        Taxi wrote to hophmi:

        “Please do introduce us to a single fully-fledged jewish zionist who is NOT an islamophobe.”

        To turn this around: Hophmi should name a few prominent Islamophobes who are not also militant Zionists. And it is crystal clear that the Islamophobia of nearly all militant Islamophobes (like Pamela Geller, John Hagee, Daniel Pipes, David Horowitz, David Brog, etc.) is the product of their militant Zionism.

        He can’t do it — I have challenged him on this before several times with no response — just a dead silence.

        Islamophobia in the contemporary West is primarily (almost exclusively) an Israeli and Zionist op. Likud Zionists, neoconservatives and Christian Zionists are using Islamophobia as a tool (and distraction) in their campaign to build mythical and mystical Greater Israel.

        Zionist Islamophobia bears many resemblances to Nazi antisemitism. There should be no surprise there: both Zionism and Nazism are militant ethnic nationalist ideologies with strong cult and xenophobic elements.

      • ColinWright
        September 19, 2012, 1:20 am

        Taxi says: “Please do introduce us to a single fully-fledged jewish zionist who is NOT an islamophobe.”

        But Taxi…

        A good half of the Zionists posting on the subject write, ‘I’m not an Islamophobe, but…’

        So how can you say this? Are you questioning their integrity?

      • hophmi
        September 19, 2012, 11:54 am

        “Hophmi should name a few prominent Islamophobes who are not also militant Zionists.”

        Well, that’s better than Taxi’s stupid question. Most Zionists are not Islamophobic.

        I have no idea how you define militant Zionist or Islamophobe. The further right you go on the Zionist spectrum, the more likely you are to find people who are not big fans of Islam. The same thing is true for the Christian spectrum and the political right spectrum.

        However, I think it unlikely that the nativists who vote for people like Le Pen or Geert Wilders’ Party for Freedom, and any of these, are all militant Zionists.

        And if you know the history of these people, you’d know your statement that their Islamophobia grows out of their militant Zionism is pure nonsense. Robert Spencer does not spend a lot of time discussing Israel; his primary target is Islam. Daniel Pipes sees militant Islam as this generation’s USSR stand-in; he’s of the Cold Warriors. Hagee’s militant Zionism grows out of his fundamentalist Christian beliefs, and his Islamophobia is common in conservative Christian circles. Same with David Brog. Zionism is a side-show for all of these folks; indeed, as I have argued elsewhere, the line on Israel they propound is not Zionism at all because Zionism is a movement for self-determination, not a politically maximalist movement that sees settlement of the West Bank as paramount to a secure, stable state. Zionism was never a messianic religious program. It was a national liberation program, and its main beneficiaries have been refugees.

        “Zionist Islamophobia bears many resemblances to Nazi antisemitism. There should be no surprise there: both Zionism and Nazism are militant ethnic nationalist ideologies with strong cult and xenophobic elements.”

        That’s more nonsense. I’m quite familiar with the brand of Islamophobia on the right in the Zionist community. To begin with, there is no “Zionist Islamophobia.” There is Islamophobia, plain and simple. Islamophobia among Zionists is not genocidal like Nazi antisemitism; no one is out to kill lots of Muslims, and outside of maybe the most rightwing 20%, Islamophobia barely exists, and indeed, a disproportionate number of defenders of Muslim causes in America are liberal and centrist Zionist Jews. Most Islamophobia is shallow, and based in the conflict. There is no deep-seated hatred of Islam in the Jewish community.

      • Taxi
        September 19, 2012, 1:59 pm

        Yeah hops, I usually ask the stupid a stupid question.

        That aside, I actually DIDN’T ask you a question, I made a polite request (with a twist of lime on the side).

        But ziobots can’t tell the difference, I know, their software don’t work that way. Let me give you a clue to the difference: one ends with a question mark, the other doesn’t. Knowadamean? Knowadamean.

      • seanmcbride
        September 19, 2012, 2:27 pm

        hophmi,

        Regarding the connection between militant Islamophobes and militant Zionists:

        1. Anders Breivik is a militant Christian Zionist.
        2. Caroline Glick is a militant Jewish Zionist.
        3. Charles Krauthammer is a militant Jewish Zionist.
        4. Daniel Pipes is a militant Jewish Zionist.
        5. David Brog is a militant Jewish Zionist.
        6. David Horowitz is a militant Jewish Zionist.
        7. David Yerushalmi is a militant Jewish Zionist.
        8. Dore Gold is a militant Jewish Zionist.
        9. Erik Prince is a militant Christian Zionist.
        10. Hal Lindsey is a militant Christian Zionist.
        11. John Hagee is a militant Christian Zionist.
        12. Martin Peretz is a militant Jewish Zionist.
        13. Melanie Phillips is a militant Jewish Zionist.
        14. Meyrav Wurmser is a militant Jewish Zionist.
        15. Michael Ledeen is a militant Jewish Zionist.
        16. Michele Bachmann is a militant Christian Zionist.
        17. Orly Taitz is a militant Jewish Zionist.
        18. Pamela Geller is a militant Jewish Zionist.
        19. Pat Robertson is a militant Christian Zionist.
        20. Rachel Abrams is a militant Jewish Zionist.
        21. Raphael Shore is a militant Jewish Zionist.
        22. Richard Perle is a militant Jewish Zionist.
        23. Robert Spencer is a militant Christian Zionist.
        24. Steven Emerson is a militant Jewish Zionist.
        25. William Boykin is a militant Christian Zionist.

        Since you expend most of your time fabricating hasbara fantasies that support your narrow Jewish nationalist agenda, you rarely see what is actually going on the world. Guys like you get regularly blindsided by history because you believe your own half-baked propaganda.

      • hophmi
        September 19, 2012, 3:10 pm

        I haven’t disagreed with you on the contention that militant Zionists tend to be Islamophobic. But you have hardly proved, in your ad hominem laced attack (normal for you) that their Islamophobia is a direct result of their militant Zionism or that Zionism (and not militant Zionism) is the cause of Islamophobia, or that what you term “militant Zionism” is Zionism at all.

        You play an old, old game. You try and define a movement by its most extreme adherents. On my side, the equivalent is defining Palestinians as Al-Qaeda sympathizers because many terrorist attacks have been perpetrated by Palestinians.

        Your argument is just bad. It’s devoid of facts, and devoid of logic.

        David Duke is militantly pro-Arab, as are many members of the American Christian extreme right. He’s an antisemite. Can I say now that there is a connection between being pro-Arab and being antisemitic?

        Timothy McVeigh, you could doubtless say, was militantly pro-American. Do you think his thinking is a fair representation of American thinking? Indeed, there’s little connection between the two.

        No matter how many lists you make, you still won’t have a good argument. I can do the same thing with antisemites and Muslim clerics and terrorism and Muslim fanatics and argue that there’s a connection between Islam and antisemitism and Islam and terrosim. But it’s disingenuous, and unlike you, I am not disingenuous.

  45. Accentitude
    September 16, 2012, 2:13 am

    Palestinian American stand-up comedian, Amer Zahr, recently posted on his blog about this story, in which he asks if we as Arabs can just say “So, what?” and rightfully so considering that there are so many greater more horrendous things happening in the world. link to civilarab.com

    A crappy indie “film” (and I put that in quotes because you can’t really label it as such. Fer cryin’ out loud Apocalypse Now and The Godfather were films. This? Hardly at all) depicting the prophet as a “womanizer” and a “gay man” (is it possible to be both??) is not worth mentioning. This film is so ridiculous that it can’t even pass as a parody. Even Roger Corman would be embarrassed to attach his name to this p.o.s….and he’s made plenty of crappy films. Maybe Yusif the Slave of Christ can advertise this as “The only movie of 2012 that led to real actual murders…well, so did the Dark Knight Rises…but y’knowhatImean.”

    Personally, let idiots be idiots. The more we talk about this thing, the more people will want to go watch it and bat-S crazies like Bachmann and Gellar will continue to have a field day over it. Put it into perspective: There are 1.5 million people suffering in the world’s largest open air prison in Gaza….sanctioned by the United States, Europe and the rest of the free world, how is that not grabbing headlines? There is a maniacal madman who is seriously planning to bomb a country not at war with his own b/c he’s determined that sometime in the next millenia, they’ll start a new holocaust….and he’s determined to drag the United States kicking and screaming into his war, risking thousands of American lives. How is that not more important than this? There’s a crazy psycho in Syria who’s eradicating his own people and Al Qaeda, of all organizations, is working along side the rebels.

    So, I’m sorry but I think that this movie is not such a big deal. Now Mega Shark versus Giant Octopus….there’s something worth cutting people’s heads off!

  46. giladg
    September 16, 2012, 6:29 am

    Hey Alex, how about a few words denouncing the behavior of those Muslim rioters?
    We all know that the video was posted a few weeks before 9/11 and the reason so many came onto the streets is that it was thought that a Jew made the video.

    • libra
      September 16, 2012, 6:11 pm

      That’s an interesting comment giladg. Can you provide evidence that it was clear to any Arab-speaking viewer of the video that it was (seemingly) Jewish made?

  47. bilal a
    September 16, 2012, 10:32 am

    ‘Jimmy Israel’ the co producer of the anti Muslim film , or someone who claims to be him, speaks out on the cannonfire blog comments section:

    link to blogger.com

    Nakoula made a notorious anti-Islam film — yet he had worked for an Islamic terrori
    [The coptic co producer worked for an Israeli mafia operation -updating]
    link to cannonfire.blogspot.com

    • seanmcbride
      September 16, 2012, 11:41 am

      bilal a,

      Thanks for keeping us informed about this line of investigation in the Innocence of Muslims controversy.

      From the mouth of Jimmy Israel himself:

      Likewise, I can’t be sure that this isn’t part of some larger deception — anything from a prank to some kind of bizarre intelligence operation. It’s phenomenally strange.

      Josh Marshall raised the possible false flag angle on the video in a recent post at Talking Points Memo.

      Will the mainstream media (and Jeffrey Goldberg) pursue these leads? If not, why not?

  48. Denis
    September 16, 2012, 1:25 pm

    I posted this in response to sean’s characterization of Jimmy Israel as a “reasonable and honest guy.” Seems to have gotten lost in the scramble:

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    September 15, 2012 at 3:14 pm

    Keeps going back to Egypt? Yeah, b/c of your attempts to get the Jews as far away from this as possible. Geller is really Egyptian, alright.

    You’re gonna’ rely on Jimmy Israel’s comments about what “Sam. M. Bacile” said?? You’re gonna’ rely on his: “Who me? No, man, I’m not a Jew, I’m a nice Buddhist boy and a Sunday school teacher.” Right . . . and Goldberg is Hindu.

    Jimmy Israel comes across as “reasonable and honest” ??? WTF, man?? Conmen always come across looking reasonable and honest. If you believe that Israel, who is in this thing with both feet, is a nice guy and that proves the Jews aren’t a part of this, then you’re next going to tell us that Alan Roberts (aka Robt. Brownell) is Obama’s anti-porn czar. And Eiad Salameh is another Buddhist Sunday school teacher. And the moon is made of (kosher) blue cheese. Quit sniffing the glue, man, and use it to put the pieces together.

    Read that interview w/ Israel on vice.com. Only his mother could read that and not come to the conclusion that he is a certified shyster. He claims to have no information about anybody, just worked on the flick for “a couple of days,” has no connections to it or to anyone connected to it — but when asked if it was backed by Jewish money, the guy is suddenly brimming over with details of where the money came from — all of it from Sam M. Bacile, whom he presents as an actual person. Yeah . . . Ok. This guy is making you look like either a sucker or an undercover neocon.

    • seanmcbride
      September 16, 2012, 2:03 pm

      Denis,

      I’ve got a completely open mind about the Innocence of Muslims controversy, and am intensely curious about where future investigations lead. And we should be especially alert to any signs of a cover-up with regard to identifying the prime movers behind the video.

      At the moment, this is the hottest link concerning the issue, on Cannonfire:

      “Nakoula made a notorious anti-Islam film — yet he had worked for an Islamic terrorist”
      link to cannonfire.blogspot.com

      In the comments section, we have direct access to the mind of Jimmy Israel. By all means, ask him questions and see how he responds.

      The current story on the video, as it stands in the mainstream media, stinks to high heavens.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 16, 2012, 2:32 pm

        wow, that’s interesting sean. and here’s joseph from cannonfire in the comments responding (allegedly) to jimmy israel

        I must admit that the people behind this movie constitute a rather unusual cast of characters. Nakoula is a crook. He worked for a man named Salameh that the LAPD very much wants to catch. The relative who has identified Salameh as a terrorist turns out to be a flim-flam man, or so CNN says. Steve Klein is just…bizarre beyond words. Sadek claims to represent the Copts of Egypt, when in fact they wish he’d shut up — and his funding remains mysterious. Nasrallah is a fanatic similar to Sadek. Pastor Terry Jones has an undeniably weird history, both in Germany and in this country. Tying many of these figures together is Pam Geller, the notorious hate-monger who excused the Norway killer’s shooting spree on the grounds that his victims were of mixed race.

        And you think I’M the oddball?

        Compared to the rest of that bunch, you don’t seem such a bad fellow, Jimmy. Just a guy on the outskirts of Hollywood trying to make a buck. Pretty much what I was, at one time.

        At any rate, if you feel I’ve treated you unfairly, I’ll post anything you have to say — as a formal post; you won’t be relegated to the comments.

        plus, there is a new comment there by joseph linking to link to theamericanmuslim.org

        very interesting scroll

  49. bilal a
    September 16, 2012, 1:28 pm

    Geller network Fund raising for a Life of Mohammad movie began well before Jimmy Israel and Alan Roberts started pre production, later joined by the coptic ex con who has copped to working in the Israeli led criminal ring . The script was alredy written and fund raising from over 100 Jeiwsh donors may also have been complete:

    So, in February of 2012 Ali Sina, one of the board members of the newly formed SION group, had announced plans to make a film about Prophet Muhammad, said that he had a completed script, and was in the planning stages, already had been promised substantial angel financing. Geller posted his article and noted the importance of his project and said he needs our help.

    On September 11th, 2012, the AFDI/SIOA/SIOE/SION/EDL/BF Global Alliance held an AFDI Freedom of Speech Congress (aka an International Freedom Defense Congress) in New York City. They did a lot of promotion and asking for donations “to cover security costs”. This year they did not have a large public event as they did in 2010 and 2011, but held the event in a conference room of a hotel. Ali Sina was one of the scheduled speakers. Whether or not any of the other characters involved in the “Sam Basile” film were in attendance would be interesting to know.

    Who made a large donation to Media for Christ in 2011? Why did Ali Sina feel it necessary to scrub the articles about his planned film from his site, and when were those articles scrubbed? Was Ali Sina’s script the one used for this film? How many of the “facts” we think we know about this film and its’ producers are part of a disinformation campaign? Who is actually pulling the strings? Was this a conspiracy? Was provoking a violent reaction exactly what the filmmakers wanted? Is SION connected with this project, and is it one of their “practical steps” “beyond rhetoric”? Why did so many key players in the Islamophobia industry feel it necessary to speak out so quickly to distance themselves from this film, and to trivialize its’ importance? Geller said “we must help” get Sina’s film made, who did help? Why was the film initially blamed on “Jews”? If Nakoula was a dupe, and the actors hired for the film were duped, who else was duped, and who is behind all of this doing the duping?

    It seems to me that terms like conspiracy, hate crime, incitement to violence, Islamophobia, anti-Semitism, psychological terrorism, and traitors, all apply here. If these individuals have not crossed a legal line, they have certainly crossed moral, and ethical lines.

    link to theamericanmuslim.org

    • bilal a
      September 16, 2012, 3:33 pm

      Yes there was a script, funding, and an international distribution plan in place in Feb. of 2012 by the Geller network There was also discussion about negative reactions to the film project ‘Life of Muhammad’ by Geller . The first reports of an Israeli American producer may be ‘Jimmy Israel’ and the 100+ Jewish donors may be the donors described by Geller in this film project. But the initial film project information is being scrubbed off the net.

      We dont know the full involvement of the early film project discussants Eric Allen Bell , Ali Sina, Pamela Geller, of of the Stockholm Working group, nor if the coptic promotoer of the new film, Media for Christ, linked to Geller, was part of the first planned Life of Muhammad film project. Also is there any clear non -supposing proof linking MOSSAD or Israel to Geller, I doubt it. Perhaps through funding but this is opaque. Still lots of questions:

      Who made a large donation to Media for Christ in 2011? Why did Ali Sina feel it necessary to scrub the articles about his planned film from his site, and when were those articles scrubbed? Was Ali Sina’s script the one used for this film? How many of the “facts” we think we know about this film and its’ producers are part of a disinformation campaign? Who is actually pulling the strings? Was this a conspiracy? Was provoking a violent reaction exactly what the filmmakers wanted? Is SION connected with this project, and is it one of their “practical steps” “beyond rhetoric”? Why did so many key players in the Islamophobia industry feel it necessary to speak out so quickly to distance themselves from this film, and to trivialize its’ importance? Geller said “we must help” get Sina’s film made, who did help? Why was the film initially blamed on “Jews”? If Nakoula was a dupe, and the actors hired for the film were duped, who else was duped, and who is behind all of this doing the duping?

      link to theamericanmuslim.org

  50. bilal a
    September 16, 2012, 3:57 pm

    Jewish telegraph agency JTA and the anti defamation league are decrying the lies that Jewish Americans or Israelis were involved in funding or making the film. There is no mention in the article of the involvement of non-coptics Jimmy Israel, Alan Roberts, David Prior, Steven Goldberg ( still not identified) nor of the Geller networkStockholm in funding and planning, even writing a script. for an identical ‘Life of Muhammad’ film project. The secondary pro-Judaism content of the film is also not mentioned.

    link to jta.org

    The ADL, JTA, and Weisenthal center are making a blood libel on the proud coptic people not responsible for this leering blasphemy.

  51. wes
    September 16, 2012, 7:52 pm

    JIMMY ISRAEL ?

    why the surname israel -how about edgar egypt or frank france or arnold america
    no
    the guys name is jimmy israel- whats more everyone here refers to him as jimmy israel and does not get it can you imagine what all those arabs think when they see the name
    jimmy israel——-he must be a jew,with a name like JIMMY ISRAEL
    as they say
    it all started with rock and roll
    and now its out of control

  52. bilal a
    September 17, 2012, 3:18 am

    Was Hollywood Director Steve Goldenberg the first organizer of ‘Desert Warrriors’ which became the notorious anti Muslim hate flick ?

    Pre production of the notorious anti Muslim film begins with Jimmy Israel and Alan Roberts whose names are on pre production cost documents. But we don’t know who brought these two together to create the film, financial backing is said to come not from Sam Basile (possibly the felon Nakoula ) but from a fourth man who Israel refuses to identify, but Jimmy says/ that this 4th man introduced him to Basil and Roberts, but there is some confusion because Jimmy believes Basil to be a separate person from Nakoula.
    Who is the supervising financial backer of this grou?

    Jeffrey J Robinson was the Assistant Director of “Desert Warriors” the original title of the film as he lists in a a cached earlier version of his resume online. Robinson identifies Sam Basell as producer and Alan Roberts as director.

    —-

    Jeffrey J Robinson – Assistant Director, 14311 Addison St. Sherman Oaks, CA, 91423 (480) 518-5197, [email protected]

    “Desert Warrior” (2011) – 1st AD Dir: Alan Roberts Prod: Sam Bassill


    References: (More available upon request)

    • Steve Goldenberg, Line Producer, (602) 300-3545

    link to webcache.googleusercontent.com

    Note that Robinson lists a Steve Goldenberg as a reference. An actress lists a similar name in her online IMDB resume:


    Cindy Lee Davis Garcia
    United States

    Film
    ________________________________________
    Desert Warriors Supporting Role/ Mother Steven Goldberg

    link to imdb.com

    There does indeed exist a Steve Goldenberg on IMDB and facebook director of Lizardman, and there is a remnant of a communication between actress davis and director Steven Goldenberg, note this name may be an alias as many are on IMDB and facebook.

    Twenty Questions – LIVE – with Steven Goldenberg
    by Piranhaconda on Saturday, June 25, 2011 at 2:02am •


    Matchflick: Really?? I like to end up my interviews by getting a sound bite from them. What would you like to tell people about you?
    Steven: I’ll just keep trying and trying and I won’t stop! And I thank Mom and Dad for that influence. Also I would like to thank everyone who helped make this movie possible.

    Watch for LIZARDMAN, coming up September 15, 2011.
    Like • Comment • Share


    o
    Cindy Lee Garcia Steven what happened with the movie Dessert Warriors, haven’t heard anything more about it
    January 12 at 11:55pm

    link to webcache.googleusercontent.com

    Cindy is checking on the film in Jan 2012 because it had been re-scheduled after an initial casting call. She is asking for information upon the status of the film from Steve Goldenberg as he was her initial contact and producer on the film project, which is why she lists a ‘Steve Goldberg’ on her film resume for ‘Desert Warriors’, Nakoula and Alan Roberts were not yet involved. Jeffrey Robinson lists Steve Goldenberg as a reference because he worked with Goldenberg before , and most likely Goldenberg referred Robinson to the replacement crew of Roberts, Israel, and Nakoula. Therefore Goldenberg must be the link to not just Robinson and Davis, but to Alan Roberts (same horror genre) and Jimmy Israel . This is all of course hypothetical, but even dispensing with the interpretation of links, why did actress davis twice refer to Steve Goldenberg , aka Goldberg in reference to this film Who paid Steve Goldenberg to organize this crew, and how was the financial backing distributed, invested?

    • Taxi
      September 17, 2012, 9:52 am

      Bilal,

      So glad you’re staying on top of this bizzaro story. I’m most puzzled why the FBI won’t release the REAL names and political backgrounds of the director and his money heads. Why would they want to ‘protect’ the hatemongers’ identity?

    • seanmcbride
      September 17, 2012, 1:29 pm

      bilal a,

      As of the moment, you seem to have collected more valuable information on the “Innocence of Muslims” video than anyone else on the planet (with the possible exception of intelligence agencies and government investigators).

      Keep up the good work. Perhaps we will figure out what this video was all about.

    • libra
      September 17, 2012, 7:21 pm

      bilal a: Who paid Steve Goldenberg to organize this crew, and how was the financial backing distributed, invested?

      I find it hard to believe that the associate producer of The Da Vinci Coed would have failed to make the connection between the name Jimmy Israel and that of the world’s greatest spy – Johnny English of British Intelligence.

      Was he trying to tell us something?

      • bilal a
        September 18, 2012, 2:08 am

        yeah I didnt know Coptic Christians were into this stuff; you got maybe Steve Goldenberg producer of the The Witches of Breastwick , The Hills have Thighs, with Alan Roberts of The Happy Hooker goes Hollywood, and Jeffrey J Robinson of Bikini Spring Break (2012) as the crew assembled to make a religious film . Maybe the salafis have a point in opposing America’s cultural exports.

  53. seanmcbride
    September 17, 2012, 1:26 pm

    One of the key ringleaders of the “Innocence of Muslims” video, Morris Sadek, is a pro-Israel militant, according to Maidhc Ó Cathail at the Passionate Attachment. Sadek’s own words:
    link to thepassionateattachment.com

    We recognize the sacred right of the state of Israel and the Israeli people to the land of historic Israel .

    “The right of Return” of the Jewish people to the land of their foremothers and forefathers is a sacred right. It has no statute of limitation. The return must continue to enrich the Middle East .

    We recognize Jerusalem as simply a Jewish city, It must never be divided, She is, and shall always be, the united capital of Israel .

    The future of the Palestinians lies with the Arab states. A Palestinian state in Judea and Samaria constitute an imminent danger to world peace.

    And Maidhc Ó Cathail’s reasonable speculation:

    The Chantilly-based National American Coptic Assembly, Inc., a private company with a staff of two, has an estimated annual revenue of $97,000. Considering the fawning pro-Israel statements of its principal, it’s not too difficult to speculate as to the source of that revenue.

    It also seems significant that this anti-Muslim video is more pro-Jewish than pro-Christian.

    One wonders if Israel has been manipulating some Egyptian Christians in the same way that it has manipulated some Lebanese and American Christians for several decades. This is by now a well-established pattern with Israel — using Christians as tools and weapons against Muslims.

  54. wes
    September 19, 2012, 6:24 am

    it finally dawned on me that this could also have been a shake the bag stunt.you pull a stunt and it brings the rioters out and you get to see who is organizing what among the rioters
    a few weeks later you do it for real but this time the riot organizers are absent do to unforseen circumstances.if that is the case then the next ten days will be interesting

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