About Adam Horowitz

Adam Horowitz is Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

Other posts by .


Posted In:

183 Responses

  1. FreddyV
    September 25, 2012, 10:07 am

    When all this is over, these kids are going to need a whole lot of rehabilitation, like Germany after 1945.

    Crying shame…….

    • seafoid
      September 25, 2012, 11:44 am

      And a very strong constitution, like Germany post 1945
      Plus the IDF will have to be disbanded.

      Imagine what Israeli state schools teach Jews about Palestinians and the other people of the Levant.

      • FreddyV
        September 25, 2012, 3:15 pm

        The thing that I found most upsetting is that some of those kids were obviously Mizrahi.

        It’s pure filth to infect the minds of children in this way.

      • Izik
        September 26, 2012, 6:07 am

        “Imagine what Israeli state schools teach Jews about Palestinians and the other people of the Levant.”

        The books are available, you can see for yourself. In any event, there is no teaching of hate against Palestinians or any other people, naturally.

      • Joe Catron
        September 26, 2012, 8:42 am
      • Bing Bong
        September 26, 2012, 9:22 am

        Spot on. Never mind that the textbooks are available to see for yourself or what’s written in the State Education Law dating back to 1953, or asking a teacher or pupil from Israel about the curriculum, or even just Googling it. Just imagine what they teach Jews about Palestinians. Presumably behind the basketball court, in secret, when nobody is looking. At night.

      • seafoid
        September 26, 2012, 9:37 am

        Nurit Peled Elhanan has done the study, Izik, so I’m afraid I can’t accept your answer

        Israeli education’s number one goal is indoctrination into Zionism so that kids grow up to be soldiers.

        link to mondoweiss.net

        Nurit Peled-Elhanan discussing her new book Palestine in Israeli School Books: Ideology and Propaganda in Education:

        Peled-Elhanan: I didn’t know I would fall on so much racism…..
        Palestinians are, if they are represented, usually they’re are not represented at all……….they don’t exists, nothing of their culture/customs nothing only as problems..and to represent people as problems is racism. Visually you don’t see even in all Israel books….in none of them can you find a photograph of a Palestinian person..a teacher a doctor whatever nothing you only find racists icons of Ali Baba
        Clark: Cartoons?
        Peled-Elhanan: Cartoons with the camel and the primitive farmer. All these icons when you look at the literature of racist representation they are there….the most racist icon or the representation of the 3rd world. It exists in other countries too regarding the 3rd world but in Israel it is crucial to understand that becasue this is all the children know about their Arab neighbors.
        Clark: Because they don’t meet them?
        Peled-Elhanan: They never meet them they are drafted into the army right after school. ..they know they are a problem that should be solved, eliminated, that they are intruders, that they are deviant, criminal, primitive, shouldn’t be here.
        Clark: Enemy?
        Peled-Elhanan: And of course enemy…whole..industry, and a very sophisticated one that, really make them disappear. Because if you see graphs or diagrams you don’t suspect they are not objective. You don’t expect scientific representations not to be scientific so you always have this little asterix saying that the graph represents only the Jewish population which is unscientific not only racist. Or maps…..none of the maps in Israel, if you go to post offices and hospitals and banks and schools and school books, show the children the real borders of the state..they don’t know the real borders of the state, they don’t know there is occupation. People here think the whole, what is called ‘greater land of Israel’ is ours and if it is not it should be and they present it as a geographic entity with the use of the bible and archeology and all these tricks and I really think the whole discourse in Israel..is very racist..but children are initiated and then they are educated in discourse to an extent they don’t even know it’s racist. They are not equipped to distinguish between racism and tolerant kind of speech, they don’t know anything is wrong with that.
        Racism doesn’t stop with the Arabs it goes into Jewish ethnicities too like Jews who came from Arab countries are discriminated in the state but also in education, they are not represented anywhere. They never see anything wrong with it , integration means they must loose themselves to commit cultural suicide.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 26, 2012, 9:58 am

        iziks, “Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace” has been wholly discredited.

        link to sourcewatch.org

        Marcus, a settler, used to work for David Bar Illan, Benjamin Netanyahu’s PR chief, and served on the Joint Israeli Palestinian Anti-Incitement Committee. Marcus’s center routinely feeds the media with excerpts from “Palestinian” textbooks that call for Israel’s annihilation. He doesn’t bother to point out that the texts quoted in fact come from Egypt and Jordan.

        [2]

        Among the main critics of CMIP is Nathan J. Brown, a Jewish American Political Science professor at George Washington Univ. His assessment of CMIP is revealing:

        Then where had the persistent reports of incitement come from? A little digging turned up the ultimate source: an organization calling itself the “Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace” (CMIP). The organization’s publications constituted virtually the only source in English—and certainly the most widely quoted one—on the Palestinian textbooks.
        As I dug a little more, I found a series of problems with the organization’s reports. Their method was to follow harsh criticisms with quotation after quotation purporting to prove a point. However, a close reading revealed that many quotations did not support the strong charges. And those that did came not from the 1994 books that I had read but from the Jordanian and Egyptian books that the PA was working to replace. Criticizing the PA for interim use of the books was certainly fair. But the CMIP neglected to mention that the Israeli government distributed the same books in East Jerusalem schools while it refused to distribute the innocuous 1994 “National Education” supplements (because they were clearly written by the PA meaning that their use might have undermined Israeli claims to sovereignty in all of the city). Nor did the report mention the dramatic changes in the supplementary 1994 books. Similarly ignored was a richly documented Palestinian project to devise its new curriculum. A 600-page official report mercilessly criticizing existing educational practices had been published in 1996. In 1997, the Palestinian legislature and cabinet approved the Ministry of Education’s plan—based partly on the 1996 report—to write the new curriculum. Neither document contained anything anti-Israeli or anti-Semitic, so the CMIP showed no interest.

        In short, the CMIP reports read as if they were written by a ruthless prosecuting attorney anxious for a conviction at any cost.

        link to mondediplo.com

      • Izik
        September 26, 2012, 11:58 am

        “Nurit Peled Elhanan has done the study, Izik, so I’m afraid I can’t accept your answer”
        Peled-Elhanan provides factually correct examples, but intentionally distorts them to suit her agenda. Yes, Israeli books are naturally pro-Israel, placing more emphasis on Israeli, Jewish and Zionist history than Palestinian history or suffering. Does this constitute education for racism? Do the Israeli books portray Palestinians as dehumanized monsters, as savages? I don’t think so. Like previously said, the books are accessible for anyone to read.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 26, 2012, 12:46 pm

        “es, Israeli books are naturally pro-Israel, placing more emphasis on Israeli, Jewish and Zionist history than Palestinian history or suffering. Does this constitute education for racism?”

        Yes, as it is a justification for the racism, theft and the inhumanity that is inherently a part of the zionist ideology.

      • Izik
        September 26, 2012, 1:09 pm

        ‘Yes, as it is a justification for the racism, theft and the inhumanity that is inherently a part of the zionist ideology.’

        Zionism is an ideology that desires a homeland for the Jewish people – that is all.

      • Philip Weiss
        September 26, 2012, 4:06 pm

        this reminds me of the almodovar picture, the law of desire. what happens when the desirer doesn’t get what they want?
        or the tennessee williams zionist play, A Homeland named Desire (how do you like that one, mooser?)

  2. seafoid
    September 25, 2012, 10:09 am

    Good old Aravim. Kill them all.

    In other parts of the world 10 year old boys talk about cars and tractors rather than tanks.

    • ThorsteinVeblen2012
      September 25, 2012, 11:42 am

      It’s like the transformation of American society after September 11 and the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq. Everyone was wearing camo and “Blackwater” apparel.

      Kissinger wrote in his first book that nations become soft without war. Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq and Lebanon are as much about creating a militarized society as foreign adventure. Societies follow the herd mentality.

      Once it is put in motion no one can question a War President or Prime Minister.

  3. Woody Tanaka
    September 25, 2012, 10:25 am

    And if a Palestinian child said: “I picture a dead Jew and that makes me happy” it would be Exhibit A on how the Arabs are irredeemably antisemitic or some similar garbage.

    • Bing Bong
      September 25, 2012, 11:27 am

      “In other parts of the world 10 year old boys talk about cars and tractors rather than tanks.”

      All over the world kids also play with toy guns and tanks. In Israel they also talk about cars and tractors

      “And if a Palestinian child said: “I picture a dead Jew and that makes me happy” it would be Exhibit A on how the Arabs are irredeemably antisemitic or some similar garbage.”

      Wouldn’t exhibit A (whether irredeemable or not) be the daily stream of published/broadcast and widely available anti-Semitism throughout the Arab world? Or has that all stopped now?

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 25, 2012, 4:23 pm

        “Wouldn’t exhibit A (whether irredeemable or not) be the daily stream of published/broadcast and widely available anti-Semitism throughout the Arab world?”

        And this material you speak of is matched by the daily stream of anti-Arab propaganda throughout Israel and the west. Hell, Hollywood has only produced one or two films in 100 years that weren’t as Anti-Arab as the Nazi’s Jud Süß was antisemitic.

        “Or has that all stopped now?”

        Yes, it’s unfortunate that the oppressed react to their oppression by hating their oppressors (a concept not alien to the Jews. See, e.g., their view of Pharoah, Haman, Torquemada, Hitler, etc.). Maybe if the israelis didn’t want to be hated, they might accept the Arab Peace Deal.

      • Bing Bong
        September 26, 2012, 4:44 am

        “And this material you speak of is matched by the daily stream of anti-Arab propaganda throughout Israel and the west.”

        No it isn’t because (in very broad terms) Israel and the other democracies in the West have various laws against incitement to racial hatred and similar that are not present in many Arab countries whose position on human rights is far weaker.

        Are you saying that such anti hate speech legislation in the West doesn’t also apply to Arabs or Muslims?

        “Hell, Hollywood has only produced one or two films in 100 years that weren’t as Anti-Arab as the Nazi’s Jud Süß was antisemitic.”

        Star Wars and Mr. Magorium’s Wonder Emporium?

      • Bing Bong
        September 26, 2012, 5:01 am

        I’d rather have the Western problems associated with the conflict between anti hate speech laws and freedom of speech laws than have neither as found in many of the the non democratic, oppressive nations you’ve obviously romanticised from the comfort and protection of the former.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 26, 2012, 9:34 am

        “No it isn’t ”

        Yes, it is. Look at Hollywood. Again, a sludge pit of anti-Arab and Islamophobic bile no better than any of the things you’re talking about.

        “Star Wars and Mr. Magorium’s Wonder Emporium?”

        Moron. Obviously, I’m talking about films that depict Arabs or Muslims.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 26, 2012, 9:48 am

        “I’d rather have the Western problems…”

        Of course you would. You’re not being attacked in the current system. If Hollywood produced endless streams of movies like Jud Süß or Der Ewige Jude, if every depiction of Jews was as either a Bernie-Madoff-style swindler and thief or as a Jonathan-Pollard-style person who would willingly and eagerly betray the USA for Israel, I doubt if you would be so thrilled with the current system.

        (Here, I assume you are Jewish, although you haven’t stated that you are or not, as far as I know. If you’re not, then replace them with whatever stereotypes about you that you would find most insulting…)

      • Bing Bong
        September 26, 2012, 10:53 am

        “Yes, it is. Look at Hollywood. Again, a sludge pit of anti-Arab and Islamophobic bile no better than any of the things you’re talking about.”

        Which Hollywood films are as Anti-Arab as the Nazi’s Jud Süß was antisemitic?

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 26, 2012, 12:34 pm

        “Which Hollywood films are as Anti-Arab as the Nazi’s Jud Süß was antisemitic?”

        Rules of Engagement.

      • Bing Bong
        September 26, 2012, 2:35 pm

        “Rules of Engagement.”

        You mean? link to en.wikipedia.org

        The worst anti-Arab film-making from Hollywood, the “sludge pit of anti-Arab and Islamophobic bile” as bad as one of the heights of Nazi motion picture anti-Semitic propaganda Jud Süß?

        Rules of Engagement??

        Really?

        If that is equal to Jud Süß are there any Hollywood films that are anti-Arab but even worse?

        Rules of Engagement???

        If as you say “Hollywood produced endless streams of movies like Jud Süß or Der Ewige Jude” but the anti-Arab equivalent there must be more than Rules of Engagement right?

        Even just off the top of your head you should be able to name some right?

        Rules of Engagement……:-)

      • Bing Bong
        September 26, 2012, 2:42 pm

        “Here, I assume you are Jewish, although you haven’t stated that you are or not, as far as I know. If you’re not, then replace them with whatever stereotypes about you that you would find most insulting…”

        Is someone stupid enough to wrongly presume to know someone else’s ethnic background a stereotype?

        I would not like to be depicted as that, that’s for sure.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 26, 2012, 4:04 pm

        “Rules of Engagement???”

        Yes, if you’ve ever watched both films, the anti-Arab bigotry in that movie is clear and resounding as the antisemitism in Jud Süß. The film making isn’t as ham handed, but the bigotry is the same. And if you’re asking for more, go look at Jack Shaheen’s book on the subject.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 26, 2012, 4:11 pm

        “Is someone stupid enough to wrongly presume to know someone else’s ethnic background a stereotype?”

        Oh, shut up. I was working on the assumption that you are Jewish based on your past postings but was honest enough to concede that you never explicitly stated so. I was merely making the point that it is easy for you to be satified with a system that doesn’t make you the constant butt of prejudice and bigotry. I was trying to be courteous to the fact that you have never explicitly stated your ethnic and religious background. But I see my courtesy was misguided. Please go piss off.

      • Bing Bong
        September 26, 2012, 6:16 pm

        They’re not equally as bad though are they? If your honest. For once.

      • Bing Bong
        September 26, 2012, 6:30 pm

        “Oh, shut up.”

        Probably won’t be shutting up.

        I have said I’m not Jewish and not Israeli before here. Why I had to do so and why you people seem to need to know this and make it such an issue is a tricky one to answer.

        “I was merely making the point that it is easy for you to be satified with a system that doesn’t make you the constant butt of prejudice and bigotry.”

        It was a safe bet that I’m hardly going to be unhappy about not being negatively discriminated against.

        Another one of your wrong presumptions is that I’m satisfied with a system that is prejudiced against others. Stating I preferred freedom of speech and a more advanced recognition of human rights…. “I’d rather have the Western problems associated with the conflict between anti hate speech laws and freedom of speech laws than have neither as found in many of the the non democratic, oppressive nations you’ve obviously romanticised”

        ….should have informed you of this.

        “Please go piss off.”

        And calm down petal, if I’m in the wrong you should easily be able to show where I’m in the wrong with a modicum of civility. Unless you are some kind of idiot or something.

      • Bing Bong
        September 26, 2012, 6:45 pm

        “And if you’re asking for more, go look at Jack Shaheen’s book on the subject.”

        I’m asking you because you claimed there is a torrent of Hollywood anti-Arab films over the past 100 years equal in strength to that of the Nazis filmed propaganda. All you’ve come up with is Rules of Engagement.

        link to rogerebert.suntimes.com

        And I suspect you’ve come to that conclusion by googling the term “anti arab films” and picking the first title that you’ve seen on the results page. It’s the 4th one down and it links to a Wikipedia page on anti-Arabism.

        link to google.com

        Right?

      • Accentitude
        September 27, 2012, 9:55 am

        “Hell, Hollywood has only produced one or two films in 100 years that weren’t as Anti-Arab as the Nazi’s Jud Süß was antisemitic.”

        Star Wars and Mr. Magorium’s Wonder Emporium? Perhaps you’ve been smoking too many hits from the BingBong. Here’s a small sample of anti-arab films…playing up the whole racist stereotype of the bad terrorist arab that want’s to kill us all….woohoo! Most of them were made within the last 100 years ;)

        Never Say Never Again
        Executive Decision
        The Terror Squad
        Munich
        The Siege
        I Cover the War
        Ten Tall Men
        The Ambushers
        In Another Dawn
        Rollover
        Team America
        The Sheik
        Son of The Sheik
        Black Sunday
        Wanted: Dead or Alive
        Iron Eagle
        Delta Force (who could forget that one??)
        Body of Lies
        Patriot Games
        True Lies (another gem)
        The Traitor
        Rules of Engagement
        The Dictator
        The Kingdom
        Three Kings
        Rendition
        The Siege

        There’s plenty more. Post 9/11, I suppose its fashionable to bash Arabs and Muslims. I wonder how these movies would have been received if Jews or Israelis were the villains.

        Blood Feast

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 27, 2012, 10:44 am

        “They’re not equally as bad though are they? If your honest. For once.”

        Defeine “equally as bad.”
        “Equally as bad” as films? No, Rules of Engagement is a better made film. It is a slick, Hollywood production.
        “Equally as bad” in the subtlety of the bigotry? No. By that metric, Rules of Engagement is a worse film. Jud Süß is so over the top, it is nearly comical. No one who isn’t already infected with antisemitism is likely to be so as a result of the film.
        “Equally as bad” in the content of their bigotry? No, they are the same. Having seen both, I am of the opinion that “Rules of Engagement” is not less bigoted than Jud Süß.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 27, 2012, 10:46 am

        “Probably won’t be shutting up.”

        Your kind never do.

        “Another one of your wrong presumptions is that I’m satisfied with a system that is prejudiced against others.”

        Not a presumption. You’ve demonstrated it repeatedly.

        “if I’m in the wrong you should easily be able to show where I’m in the wrong with a modicum of civility.”

        You haven’t earned civility. Quite the opposite.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 27, 2012, 10:50 am

        “I’m asking you because you claimed there is a torrent of Hollywood anti-Arab films over the past 100 years equal in strength to that of the Nazis filmed propaganda. All you’ve come up with is Rules of Engagement.”

        And told you to do your own research. Go, piss off.

        “And I suspect you’ve come to that conclusion by googling the term ‘anti arab films’ and picking the first title that you’ve seen on the results page. It’s the 4th one down and it links to a Wikipedia page on anti-Arabism.”

        You suspect that because you are an idiot. I saw the film in the theater, first run, in 2000. It was bigoted trash then, and bigoted trash now. You may need google to do your thinking for you, but I certainly do not.

      • Cliff
        September 27, 2012, 11:48 am

        Same. Saw it in the theater when I was young and didn’t know any better at the time. The dude who wrote it is a major Zionist hack and Sam Jackson never met an Arab/Muslim who he didn’t like to ultimately main/kill/etc. for the ‘greater good’ (cue Hot Fuzz scene).

        There was a flick he did recently where for the entire movie he is torturing an Islamic terrorist and is ‘forced’ to slit the throat of the terrorist’s wife. The context is that the Islamist and his sleeper cell have a nuke somewhere in NYC.

        He isn’t talking and yada yada yada, his wife’s throat gets slit. She has no idea he’s a terrorist and is portrayed pleading for him to give up the location of the nuke. They also hint at killing his kids to get him to talk.

        It’s hilariously absurd and horrifying all at the same time and Sam Jackson is in top-form as always, losing his proverbial shit because quote: “There’s no [motherf*****g] time!”

        You can watch the scene on YouTube and decide for yourself as to whether I’ve portrayed it correctly or not. Is worse in actuality than in words and I think it’s almost a parody. Went straight-to-video (dustbin) though so I think not. Someone was embarrassed by how sincere the actors were in their b.s.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 28, 2012, 7:56 am

        I had a conversation a few years back regarding Rules of Engagement. Someone didn’t get why it was so bad until I said, specifically with reference to the military attack on the one-legged little girl, which is excused and justified by the end of the movie, “Imagine if at the end of the third act of Schindler’s List, the Germans discover absolute proof that all the Jews they rounded up from the ghetto were, in fact, plotting to destroy the German nation and were actively plotting to murder German civilians, that the acts of the Nazis in liquidating the ghetto were the only thing that preventing that, and that the little girl in the red coat was an active participant in the plot.” Such an ending, horrific to contemplate as it is, is basically the equivalent of the end of “Rules of Engagement.”

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 28, 2012, 8:11 am

        I haven’t seen that Samuel Jackson movie you’re talking about, but it sounds about right for what Hollywood is putting out. I would love to see someone put out a movie addressing this head on, but I doubt it. Too many powerful people in the industry favor this type of bigotry against Arabs and Muslims.

      • Bing Bong
        September 28, 2012, 9:07 am

        “Jud Süß is so over the top, it is nearly comical. No one who isn’t already infected with antisemitism is likely to be so as a result of the film.”

        Like The Innocence of Muslims then? Its so over the top, it is nearly comical. No one who isn’t already infected with Islamophobia is likely to be so as a result of the film.

        But why are so many people getting enraged about it in that case?

        Oh, hang on….let me guess, its different somehow, just like Rules of Engagement is somehow the same as Jud Süß.

      • Bing Bong
        September 28, 2012, 9:20 am

        “Your kind never do.”

        Hey! you got something right!

      • Bing Bong
        September 28, 2012, 11:03 am

        “And told you to do your own research. Go, piss off.”

        But it’s your claim, I shouldn’t have to do research to support a claim you can only weakly substantiate with one example, namely, Rules of Engagement.

        “I saw the film in the theater, first run, in 2000.”

        You remembered the year Rules of Engagement came out after 12 years? Unless some other associated event has made that trip to the movies memorable I’d say you’ve been getting your movie facts on the google pipe again.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 28, 2012, 1:14 pm

        “But it’s your claim”

        And I told you where you can go do more research if you want to dispute the claim. If you don’t want to do your own research, then that’s your problem. I’m not going to waste my time on the likes of you.

        “You remembered the year Rules of Engagement came out after 12 years? Unless some other associated event has made that trip to the movies memorable I’d say you’ve been getting your movie facts on the google pipe again.”

        I remember what city I was in when I saw the movie, I only lived in that city in 2000. Thus, I knew the movie came out in 2000. God, you’re fucking stupid.

      • Bing Bong
        September 28, 2012, 4:02 pm

        “And I told you where you can go do more research if you want to dispute the claim.”

        I don’t need to substantiate the disputation of an initially unsubstantiated claim. It pretty much does it itself.

        I don’t phone up Buzz Aldrin when someone claims the moon is made of cheese. I just get on with my day.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 1, 2012, 11:01 am

        “I don’t need to substantiate the disputation of an initially unsubstantiated claim.”

        And I told you where you can start your research if you want to correct the idiocy of your disputing it. But you’d rather be ignornant.

        “I don’t phone up Buzz Aldrin when someone claims the moon is made of cheese. I just get on with my day.”

        LMAO. No, you’re the guy who disputes that the moon landings were real; when you’re given a resource to do the researching to correct your ignorance, you reject that suggestion because you prefer to keep your head firmly up your own ass.

    • kayq
      September 25, 2012, 12:06 pm

      Spot on.

      This is disgusting.

    • Hamishe_Sabz
      September 25, 2012, 1:06 pm

      not only the kids say that, their imams/leaders say that as well…

      • Annie Robbins
        September 25, 2012, 1:43 pm

        their imams/leaders say that as well…

        no rabbi’s? have you read the king’s torah lately hamishe?

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 25, 2012, 4:24 pm

        Well, if zionists didn’t want to be hated, they shouldn’t have invaded someone else’s land, ethnically cleansed them, and perpetrated those crimes to the present day. They only have themselves to blame.

    • Kathleen
      September 25, 2012, 1:12 pm

      that would certainly be the case

    • Accentitude
      September 27, 2012, 4:27 am

      It wouldn’t make sense for Arabs to be “anti-semites” since they, themselves, are indeed Semites as well. Something that the Zionists don’t want you to know of if you do know, they want you to forget.

      On the education system in Israel, I recall a recent law that was introduced that strictly prohibited teachers for educating their students of the Palestinian narrative, and mentioning and teaching about the Nakba and Naksa. Combine that with the racist teachings of many of the state-funded Rabbis like Dov Lior and others and you pretty much can tell what the future generations of little zionists will grow up thinking about the “others.”

  4. Dan Crowther
    September 25, 2012, 10:42 am

    How did the Merkava do in southern Lebanon?

    The militarism is one thing – but the religious belief in the supremacy of the IDF is another, at least to me. The Israeli’s are really the only people left who hold the IDF in high regard; in other words, there are plenty of Lebanese who can’t wait for that kid and his tank to come across the border again.

    • seafoid
      September 25, 2012, 12:33 pm

      When Halper says that there are 2 very distinctive cultures in Israstine he doesn’t seem to ever mention the military indoctrination of Jews or the centrality of the cult of the IDF.

    • ColinWright
      September 25, 2012, 4:38 pm

      Dan Crowther says: ‘ …there are plenty of Lebanese who can’t wait for that kid and his tank to come across the border again.’

      This, I doubt. Hezbollah did a stellar job driving Israel back, and I’m sure they’re prepared to do it again — but given the amount of firepower Israel unleashes, I doubt if the job’s especially enjoyable. In fact, it must be absolutely terrifying.

  5. Erasmus
    September 25, 2012, 10:48 am

    Militarization!

    From the craddle to the grave…….

    What can one expect from such a society that brings up one’s children in such away…….?

    You check the children’s playgrounds in Israel.
    Many of them also have military gadgets to play with.

    Great Video. An eye-opener for those who want to see.

    • Izik
      September 25, 2012, 11:05 am

      “Many of them also have military gadgets to play with.”
      I grew up in Israel. What “military gadgets” are you referring to?

      • pogomutt
        September 25, 2012, 12:32 pm

        He/she is probably referring to those bomb shelter military gadget thingies. They come in handy when rockets rain down on 6 year-olds.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 25, 2012, 1:58 pm

        rain? as opposed to israel’s ‘precision’ drone attacks that actually kill hundreds and hundreds of people over the last few years. 3 people were killed this week alone, it is constant.

      • sardelapasti
        September 25, 2012, 2:13 pm

        See, the Zionists, who started and never stopped a war of aggression, are endangering the sleep, and sometimes even the life, of their own children.
        Because, see, when you start a war you get war.
        Enjoy, murderer! Send your kids to the shelters for the sake of grabbing other people’s land!

      • pogomutt
        September 25, 2012, 3:38 pm

        Those weren’t “people”, they were terrorists.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 25, 2012, 4:26 pm

        “Those weren’t ‘people’, they were terrorists.”

        Yes, you’re correct. The European zionists who stole the land from the Palestinians were terrorists.

      • Eva Smagacz
        September 25, 2012, 7:23 pm

        pogomutt,

        I am sorry to break it to you, but your “terrorist” is a Palestinian resistance fighter for the majority of the nations on this planet.
        And it may come as a total surprise to you, but resistant fighter, aka terrorist, even if he is Palestinian – he is still human.

      • pogomutt
        September 25, 2012, 9:04 pm

        If the IDF is going to expend a very expensive drone on a target, that target has blood on his hands, and is probably culpable in planning to get a lot more on his hands. Israel’s little Skylark drone is a masterpiece of counterterrorism ordnance. I think it’d be a mistake to scrap the project, but budget constraints may force its halt.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 25, 2012, 9:57 pm

        If the IDF is going to expend a very expensive drone on a target, that target has blood on his hands

        iow, screw protocol.drones are expensive therefore israel is right. collateral damage? phff.

      • Izik
        September 26, 2012, 6:17 am

        Are you referring to the incident where militants ambushed Israeli soldiers on the Egyptian border – killing one and suffering three casualties? How can you characterize this incident as Israeli aggression?

        link to bbc.co.uk

      • proudzionist777
        September 26, 2012, 7:48 am

        @Annie

        If you’d remove your blinders you’d see that several rockets have been shot into Israel from Gaza over the past several weeks and that Israel has only responded to the attacks, not provoked them,

        Moreover, two days ago terrorists from the Negev, G-d know what they want, attacked an IDF patrol in Israel and killed a soldier.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 26, 2012, 7:52 am

        no i am not izik, your article doesn’t even mention gaza or palestinians.

        link to alresalah.ps

        GAZA (Alresalah.ps) — Two Palestinians were killed, and one was critically wounded in an Israeli drone attack in the southern town of Rafah, southern Gaza Strip, medical sources reported.

        The victims have been identified as Ashraf Saleh, 33, and Anis Abu al-Anain, 22, and both of them work for the Ministry of Interior in the Gaza Strip, Palestinian sources said.

        “An Israeli drone targeted a HiLux car, killing two and injuring one,” our correspondent said.

        The bodies of the dead were torn apart, and completely burnt, medics said.

        Ashraf Saleh is the brother of Dr. Ahmed Yousef (Saleh), the political advisor of the Gaza-based PM.

        and do not talk to me about blinders pz. ‘rockets’ coming from gaza doesn’t mean there’s been any kind of evidence or trial to determine the people massacred by israel in the drone attack last week were even related to that incident. israel just kills whenever whoever they want.they are targeted assassinations. no evidence no nothing. we’re not stupid.

      • Izik
        September 26, 2012, 7:59 am

        According to Israeli media, the two killed were members of of a terrorist organization and were planning an attack in Israel.

        The attack is a good example of how Israel does indeed take a lot of care in avoiding civilian deaths.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 26, 2012, 9:24 am

        “not provoked them,”

        Bull, pudracist. The illegal blockade is the ultimate provocation.

        “two days ago terrorists from the Negev, G-d know what they want, attacked an IDF patrol in Israel and killed a soldier.”

        They weren’t terrorists, they attacked armed soldiers.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 26, 2012, 9:25 am

        “According to Israeli media, the two killed were members of of a terrorist organization and were planning an attack in Israel.”

        Of course israeli media is going to claim that.

      • Izik
        September 26, 2012, 12:02 pm

        ‘‘rockets’ coming from gaza doesn’t mean there’s been any kind of evidence or trial to determine the people massacred by israel in the drone attack last week were even related to that incident.’

        In a state of conflict, it is often impractical to arrest people in territories controlled by a hostile combatant. In such a case, neutralizing the threat against one’s own civilians by striking the attackers is reasonable and lawful.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 26, 2012, 12:45 pm

        “In a state of conflict, it is often impractical to arrest people in territories controlled by a hostile combatant. In such a case, neutralizing the threat against one’s own civilians by striking the attackers is reasonable and lawful.”

        So then you would have no problem with Gazans firing rockets to try to destroy the government offices in S’derot, for example? Or is it only Jews for whom this is reasonable and lawful?

      • Izik
        September 26, 2012, 1:05 pm

        ‘So then you would have no problem with Gazans firing rockets to try to destroy the government offices in S’derot, for example?’

        If government/military officials in Sderot would be plotting attacks against Gazan civilians, then a Gazan preemptive strike would make sense. In our reality, however:
        1. Israel doesn’t target Gazan civilians
        2. Fire from Gaza is aimed at civilians, not government or military installations (not that that would be OK)

      • Bing Bong
        September 26, 2012, 3:29 pm

        Quite right, and don’t forget there is nothing stopping Hamas from collecting evidence arresting and putting these people on trial before or after an attack against Israel. Well nothing in theory anyway.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 26, 2012, 3:55 pm

        Well, when israel round up the criminals who planned and carried out the Christmastime War on Gaza and hands them over to Hamas for trial, then you might have grounds to complain that Hamas isn’t reciprocating.

      • Accentitude
        September 27, 2012, 4:30 am

        Oh of course, how could we forget. They were “Savages,” no?

      • Bing Bong
        September 27, 2012, 4:33 am

        You mean Cast Lead, the war that severely curtailed the number of rockets being fired into Israel?

      • Bing Bong
        September 27, 2012, 6:34 am

        Are you going to similarly write off Israeli media, such as Haaretz, when they publish stories that you agree with? Or will it suddenly turn into irrefutable evidence straight from the horse’s mouth in that case?

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 27, 2012, 10:25 am

        “You mean Cast Lead,”

        Call the Christmastime murder of the Gazans whatever you want.

        “the war that severely curtailed the number of rockets being fired into Israel?”

        That’s too bad. But any way, the ends don’t justify the means. Shame on your parents for not teaching you that.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 27, 2012, 10:27 am

        “1. Israel doesn’t target Gazan civilians”

        They say that, sure. But they are either 1) lying or 2) are really bad at targeting, given the number of dead Gazan civilians there have been. (Oh, I’m sure you can spout some hasbara bullshit to excuse your murderers. Save it.)

        “2. Fire from Gaza is aimed at civilians, not government or military installations (not that that would be OK)”

        So it wouldn’t be OK to aim it at the government or military installations that are constantly attacking and killing them? So I guess to you, self-defense is only something that Jews are entitled to. Get lost, bigot.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 27, 2012, 10:30 am

        “Are you going to similarly write off Israeli media, such as Haaretz, when they publish stories that you agree with?”

        No reasonable man trust israeli media about anything, ever.

      • seafoid
        September 27, 2012, 10:47 am

        The rules of war and the Geneva Conventions don’t apply to Gaza. That is IDF doctrine. Perhaps someone has a link that explains it.

        There is no court for the crimes committed against Gaza.

        link to youtube.com

      • Bing Bong
        September 27, 2012, 10:49 am

        “No reasonable man trust israeli media about anything, ever.”

        I found this an informative read.

        link to haaretz.com

        So the incidents catalogued by Breaking the Silence and reported in Haaretz should not be trusted then?

        I’m assuming you think Breaking the Silence is an Israeli propaganda attempt aided by Haaretz to pretend that it’s ex military can address uncomfortable issues?

      • proudzionist777
        September 27, 2012, 5:16 pm

        Why does everyone talk about Cast Lead without mentioning Operation Oil Stain, which preceded Cast Lead.

        link to maannews.net

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 27, 2012, 5:33 pm

        “Why does everyone talk about Cast Lead without mentioning Operation Oil Stain, which preceded Cast Lead.”

        And, pudracist666, if you hordes of zionist squatters didn’t invade Palestine starting in the middle of the 19th Century, with the malevolent intent of stealing it from its rightful owners, the Palestinians, none of this would have occurred.

      • Bing Bong
        September 28, 2012, 9:57 am

        “Why does everyone talk about Cast Lead without mentioning Operation Oil Stain, which preceded Cast Lead.”

        I think there is some confusion over the correct terms in use according to the various viewpoints, languages, perceptions of event used and subscribed to throughout and after the conflict. Oil Stain is often autotranslated as Oil Slick. Plus Hamas abandoned the term “oil stain” once Cast Lead was underway renaming it to (the closest, albeit supremely clunky translation being) operation boomerang effect. It’s a sad yet telling fact that not even the name of the conflict can be agreed upon by the various political actors involved.

      • ColinWright
        September 28, 2012, 3:24 pm

        proudzionist777: “Moreover, two days ago terrorists from the Negev, G-d know what they want, attacked an IDF patrol in Israel and killed a soldier.”

        This is pretty typical of the way Zionists abuse language.

        Someone who kills an armed soldier is not a ‘terrorist.’ They can be a guerrilla, a freedom fighter, a militant, a partisan, an irregular — but not a ‘terrorist.’

      • Hamishe_Sabz
        September 25, 2012, 1:07 pm

        He is talking about this…
        link to google.com

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 25, 2012, 4:31 pm

        “He is talking about this…”

        What about that? The israelis have oppressed, tormented, terrorized and committed the most horrible of crimes and sins against these children. How do you expect them to react? That the israeli has robbed them of a chance to have a normal life is merely the latest in his crimes.

      • Cliff
        September 27, 2012, 11:24 am

        Israeli kills ten times the number of Palestinian children than the other way around. This is in addition to its daily abuses against children through its apartheid policies in the territories.

  6. seafoid
    September 25, 2012, 10:48 am

    Burston is pretty liberal for an Israeli but even he has been indoctrinated into the cult of militarism

    link to haaretz.com

  7. MRW
    September 25, 2012, 10:52 am

    Kids like this are going to grow up and attend the Cornell/Technion School on Roosevelt Island? Some nice docile farmboy from central PA has to contend with an abrasive ex-IDF student spouting this stuff?

    • Cliff
      September 27, 2012, 11:39 am

      I don’t know where people get a sense of their moral compass from but I lived away from my parents for a long time. Boarding schools.

      That being said, being Indian – I suppose I had an outsider perspective already so I wasn’t going to be latching on to any hateful racist ideologies like Zionism that so regularly require me to suspend my elementary understanding of right / wrong, etc.

      And perhaps that is too idealistic on my part. After all, don’t we think that Jews are more inclined to sympathize with the oppressed given their history of suffering and alienation?

      It’s interesting to study the formative period of pre-Civil War America in certain colonies like Virginia to grasp the gradual racialization of the class divisions that ultimately overtook the Zeitgeist.

      When we think of ‘Jewish’ this or that, we have a word association game going on much like any other group. In America identity politics rule and every group of people invoke imagery – often emotional and false.

      These are stereotypes and they can be positive or negative and in the case of Jews, I think for me growing up in the 90s and graduating HS/college/etc. in the 2000s – the imagery has been overwhelmingly positive.

      This is part and parcel to the American education system as much as the story of Squanto that we are taught in grade school is that of a helpful Indian who taught the Pilgrims how to plant corn and brought different peoples together amidst a time of misunderstanding and strife.

      All bullshit but you can barely communicate a nuanced telling of history to adults it seems so why expect children to grasp the truth or something resembling it? I.e., sincerity?

      You can’t. That’s how we get failures like the American ZioBot keyboard-warriors who are so steeped in their own narcissistic **** that they display such zero self-awareness when they engage rational adults.

  8. subconscious
    September 25, 2012, 10:58 am

    Good to see that the army museum has succeeded in its mission to instill the Biblical Swords-into-Plowshares & Spears-into-Pruninghooks spirit in the kids. Clear sign that w/in a generation the lion and the lamb shall be lying together in the Holy Land.

    • RoHa
      September 25, 2012, 9:07 pm

      “Clear sign that w/in a generation the lion and the lamb shall be lying together in the Holy Land.”

      When the lion and the lamb lie together, only the lion gets up again.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 25, 2012, 9:55 pm

        who’s the lion and who’s the lamb?

      • FreddyV
        September 26, 2012, 2:31 am

        @Annie:

        Lion / Lamb analogies come from premillenial theology.

      • FreddyV
        September 26, 2012, 7:03 am

        Hi Annie,

        I did a little digging for you. This is an interesting link. Premillenialist Christians (where Christian Zionism bases it’s interpretation of the Bible) refer to the lion and lamb thing pointing to an age in the future after Christ’s return to Earth where there will be no sickness or suffering and all of God’s creatures will be vegetarian.

        Interestingly, the phrase doesn’t actually appear anywhere in the Bible.

        link to andrewcorbett.net

      • Annie Robbins
        September 26, 2012, 7:46 am

        thank you freddy. you’re right, very interesting link.

      • subconscious
        September 25, 2012, 10:44 pm

        The hope was that after the lion and the lamb lie together, not only would both get up again, but so would a hitherto-unknown “limb,” which would be a miracle, since interordinal animal hybrids have not been observed:
        link to en.wikipedia.org

  9. CitizenC
    September 25, 2012, 11:21 am

    I’ve been to that museum. It’s the former fortress of Latrun, key to the “Latrun salient” on the road from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. It was held by the Arab Legion against repeated, costly Zionist attacks in 1948. It was captured in 1967, and three villages at least in the salient were promptly razed.

    I drove from TA to Jerusalem on the back roads, stopped at Ramle and Lydda, largely Arab towns, saw the Byzantine church and the mosque and minaret in Ramle, I think.

    It was Saturday, and the Latrun museum was full of Israeli families on holiday, just like in the video. I wondered what they were saying and thinking, now I know.

    • proudzionist777
      September 26, 2012, 7:54 am

      @Citizen

      “…Ramle and Lydda, largely Arab towns..”

      Not but a long shot. You must have mistaken Mizrahi Jews for Arabs.
      No one’s perfect.

      • CitizenC
        September 26, 2012, 7:15 pm

        I was in the Arab section of Ramle then, which has a “significant Arab minority”, according to Wiki.

      • proudzionist777
        September 27, 2012, 5:18 pm

        Today, Ramle is about 70 percent Jewish and 30 percent Arab.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 27, 2012, 5:25 pm

        “Today, Ramle is about 70 percent Jewish and 30 percent Arab”

        Because you criminals ethnically cleansed it.

  10. Refaat
    September 25, 2012, 11:48 am

    And then Israel will blame Palestinians for not dying and causing many little israelis to feel down…

  11. Mndwss
    September 25, 2012, 11:51 am

    When i hear Israelis accuse someone of something i often think they just pick something from a list of all the bad things that Israel does.

    Teaching children to hate.
    Building nuclear bombs.
    Using human shields.
    Wanting to destroy a country.
    Racism
    +
    +

    • Izik
      September 26, 2012, 8:01 am

      “Teaching children to hate.”
      I wasn’t taught to hate, and I don’t hate anyone.

      “Using human shields”
      Israel outlaws the use of human shields.

      “Wanting to destroy a country.”
      I am not aware of any country that Israel wants destroyed.

      “Racism”
      Israel does not promote racism.

      • Joe Catron
        September 26, 2012, 8:57 am

        “I wasn’t taught to hate, and I don’t hate anyone.”

        Lucky you. Many of your countrymen are in a different boat.

        link to ceasefiremagazine.co.uk
        link to electronicintifada.net

        “Israel outlaws the use of human shields.”

        Oh, yes! Countless Israeli violations of this law even, once, led to a couple of suspended sentences, I believe.

        link to bbc.co.uk

        “I am not aware of any country that Israel wants destroyed.”

        Considering that “Israel” exists on the ruins of a definitively destroyed, ethnically-cleansed country, you can see why many are nervous about, for example, this:

        link to mondoweiss.net

        “Israel does not promote racism.”

        “Israel” is racism. Strip away the ethnic cleansing and apartheid, and what’s left?

      • Izik
        September 26, 2012, 11:45 am

        “Lucky you. Many of your countrymen are in a different boat.”
        The public school system definitely does not preach hate.

        “Oh, yes! Countless Israeli violations of this law even, once, led to a couple of suspended sentences, I believe.”
        Not sure what you mean by ‘countless’, but I’m not familiar with information that suggests that Israel somehow uses human shields as a sanctioned military strategy.

        ‘Considering that “Israel” exists on the ruins of a definitively destroyed, ethnically-cleansed country, you can see why many are nervous about, for example, this:’
        What country did Israel destroy? The Palestinian community was offered one in the 1947 partition plan, but eventually decided against forming a country and for starting a war.

        ‘“Israel” is racism'”
        No. It isn’t. Not sure what that even means.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 26, 2012, 9:28 am

        “I wasn’t taught to hate, and I don’t hate anyone.”

        That’s good. Too bad most of your fellow israelis can’t say the same.

        “Israel outlaws the use of human shields.”

        So what. It still uses them.

        “I am not aware of any country that Israel wants destroyed.”

        It wants to destroy the Palestinian nation.

        “Israel does not promote racism.”

        Yes it does. It’s animating ideology of zionism is racist to the core; in principle and in practice.

      • Izik
        September 26, 2012, 11:49 am

        ‘That’s good. Too bad most of your fellow israelis can’t say the same.’
        Most Israelis I know don’t harbor hate towards anyone.

        ‘So what. It still uses them.’
        When it does, it’s in violation of Israeli law and the offenders should be tried. You may argue that this happens less than it should, but Israeli policy is proactively against the use of human shields.

        ‘It wants to destroy the Palestinian nation. ‘
        I don’t think Israel wants to destroy the Palestinian nation. Why do you think that?

        ‘Yes it does. It’s animating ideology of zionism is racist to the core; in principle and in practice.’
        Zionism is an ideology that states that the Jewish nationality should have a homeland. Similar to national movements, not excluding the Palestinian one. There is nothing racist about this ideology.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 26, 2012, 12:41 pm

        “Most Israelis I know don’t harbor hate towards anyone. ”

        Then you must live in the fantasy-world section of israel.

        “When it does, it’s in violation of Israeli law and the offenders should be tried. You may argue that this happens less than it should, but Israeli policy is proactively against the use of human shields.”

        What laws it has on the books is wholly irrelevant if it doesn’t enforce them.

        “I don’t think Israel wants to destroy the Palestinian nation. Why do you think that?”

        Mostly all of the steps which the zionists have taken since the mid 1800s to destroy the Palestinian nation. Nakba, maybe you heard of it, it’s kind of a big deal.

        “Zionism is an ideology that states that the Jewish nationality should have a homeland.”

        In a land that was someone else’s and had been for thousands of years. The zionist ideology demanded that those rightful owners be stripped of ownership and possession of their land based solely on their ethno-religious background and transferred to foreign Jews. That’s pure unadulterated racism.

        “There is nothing racist about this ideology.”

        It’s racist to the core.

      • ColinWright
        September 28, 2012, 3:29 pm

        Izik says: ““Teaching children to hate.”
        I wasn’t taught to hate, and I don’t hate anyone.

        “Using human shields”
        Israel outlaws the use of human shields.

        “Wanting to destroy a country.”
        I am not aware of any country that Israel wants destroyed.

        “Racism”
        Israel does not promote racism.”

        You may not have been taught to hate, but you’ve got lying down pretty good.

  12. Woody Tanaka
    September 25, 2012, 12:05 pm

    It’s like an outing by the Hitler Youth. And the vile indoctrination is working. Kids being happy at the sight of a dead Arab, a kid wishing to invade Lebanon, another hoping to murder 85 people. A generation of psychopaths raising another generation of psychopaths. Of all the crimes of the West, fostering this abomination may be its greatest.

  13. pogomutt
    September 25, 2012, 12:26 pm

    Good grief. Have any of you bothered to look at computer/video games 10 year-old boys play the world over? I promise that none of them feature faux peaceniks carping about military museums. The more blood, guts, death, kung fu, and pyrotechnics, the better.

    • Koshiro
      September 25, 2012, 4:29 pm

      Maybe it’s different in the US or Israel, but I can assure you that violent videogames are not considered appropriate for 10-year olds “the world over”.

      • pogomutt
        September 25, 2012, 10:05 pm

        Appropriate or not, that’s the reality. But I shouldn’t lay the whole rap on 10 year-old boys. According to Computer Gaming Magazine, big boys over 50 now represent about 40% of gamers worldwide. The average age is about 35, but I guarantee every kid who can get his hands on a copy of Worlds of Warcraft is going to play. It broke all records, selling millions upon millions of “pre-order” copies before it was even released. The day it was released, set a single day record for school and work absenteeism in the US.

        All that said, do you (and others here) think it within the realm of possibility that 10 year-old Israeli boys visiting an IDF museum, might actually be PROUD of what that institution represents to the nation? There’d be no Israel without it…but then that’s pretty much the ambition of most who post here, isn’t it?

      • FreddyV
        September 26, 2012, 2:42 am

        Pogomutt, you really have scraped the barrel with this one. People here are disgusted at this video. We’re equally disgusted at Palestinian fostering of hatred.

        I’m also disgusted at your cheap ‘you all want Israel destroyed and indoctrinating kids is a good thing to preserve it’ bullshit.

        Grow up.

      • Koshiro
        September 26, 2012, 3:42 am

        I guarantee every kid who can get his hands on a copy of Worlds of Warcraft is going to play.

        Your conflating WoW’s cartoony fantasy world with “blood, guts, death” and mentioning in the context of real world militarization and ethnic hatred only confirms what was obvious from the start: You have no idea what you are talking about.

      • Bing Bong
        September 26, 2012, 6:53 am

        “We’re equally disgusted at Palestinian fostering of hatred.”

        I don’t see that expressed here, it’s usually written off as the natural reaction to being oppressed as per Woody above.

        “Yes, it’s unfortunate that the oppressed react to their oppression by hating their oppressors…..Maybe if the israelis didn’t want to be hated,….”

        “The israelis have oppressed, tormented, terrorized and committed the most horrible of crimes and sins against these children. How do you expect them to react?”

        When has MW posted a story like the above video with similar sentiments from an Arab about a Jew/Israeli? and what were/would be the accompanying comments expressing disgust in any form other than a preamble setting forth a lecture on the ‘mitigating circumstances’?

      • Bing Bong
        September 26, 2012, 7:32 am

        “There’d be no Israel without it…but then that’s pretty much the ambition of most who post here, isn’t it?”

        Hits the nail on the head, I’m sure nobody here wants Palestinian suffering to continue but in the first instance it’s a will to see Israel end from most who post here that must facilitate that, no alternative.

        It’s hate for a whole country all dressed up as compassion so the right kind of people (namely not Stormfront anti-Semites) can post here in comfort.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 26, 2012, 9:21 am

        “All that said, do you (and others here) think it within the realm of possibility that 10 year-old Israeli boys visiting an IDF museum, might actually be PROUD of what that institution represents to the nation?”

        Sure, and i’m sure a troop of HJ would have been PROUD of the Wehrmacht in Poland, too.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 26, 2012, 9:23 am

        “but in the first instance it’s a will to see Israel end from most who post here that must facilitate that, no alternative.”

        Oh, that’s a load of crap. Most people on this board are on record calling for nothing more than justice for the Palestinians. The problem is that the pro-israeli camp (that means you) are insistant upon a fundamentally racist ideology that excuses a century and a half of endless crimes against humanity and war crimes in the name of zionism.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 26, 2012, 9:32 am

        “I don’t see that expressed here, it’s usually written off as the natural reaction to being oppressed as per Woody above.”

        I’m not writing it off, I’m explaining it. There’s a difference.

      • FreddyV
        September 26, 2012, 10:11 am

        @Bing Bong:

        Sorry? Are you suggesting there should be an equal or even handed reporting of Palestinian indoctrination here to balance this article?

        OK, I’m sure that could be addressed, but I’m not sure that you’re aware, this site discusses (amongst other things) the violations of the Israeli regime on the rights and very existence of the Palestinian people. I believe most are aware of Palestinian indoctrination of children and condemn it irrespective of the fact that they can understand why after 64 years of being oppressed.

        Last time I checked, Mondoweiss wasn’t the BBC and doesn’t have a duty to offer both sides of a story. Neither do any of the Israel apologist sites, but we all know where we’re going to get a more honest overview from.

        Perhaps you could also lobby the Israel apologist / Islamophobe / Zionist websites and ask them to publish articles such as this one. Just so things can be even handed and fair eh?

        Do you think they’d go for that?

        No?

        OK, get back in your little Hasbara box.

        Thanks for taking five minutes of my time I’ll never get back.

      • FreddyV
        September 26, 2012, 10:25 am

        Actually Bing, I want to see Israel sort this out. It is doable, just not in the way you imagine.

        ‘A will to see Israel end’? Here lies the problem:

        Whilst Zionists see Israel ending when it loses it’s ethno supremacy by giving equal rights to all with it’s borders including the occupied territories and addressing the refugee issue, normal people in normal countries see that as a time when Israel actually starts becoming a real nation and a real democracy and representative of all it’s people. Saddest of all is that’s what the Bible’s vision of Israel is.

        Oh, and the anti-Semite thing: Don’t even try that here. Very cheap and tawdry.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 26, 2012, 10:40 am

        the anti-Semite thing: Don’t even try that here. Very cheap and tawdry.

        it’s their #1 crutch, they will never give it up.

      • Bing Bong
        September 26, 2012, 12:29 pm

        “Last time I checked, Mondoweiss wasn’t the BBC and doesn’t have a duty to offer both sides of a story. Neither do any of the Israel apologist sites, but we all know where we’re going to get a more honest overview from.

        Perhaps you could also lobby the Israel apologist / Islamophobe / Zionist websites and ask them to publish articles such as this one. Just so things can be even handed and fair eh?”

        I see, you’re under no obligation to have any kind of balance to more accurately report the issue (like the BBC would) and you don’t want any kind of balance in the same way that Zionist websites don’t want any kind of balance?

        So you’re essentially carrying the same level of bias as the Zionist websites just with an opposing narrative which you admit cannot possibly be as honest and accurate as the BBC which has a duty to present both sides impartially?

        That’s essentially my view of MW too, the difference being I don’t think that’s a good thing.

        “Whilst Zionists see Israel ending when….”

        Sorry, the Jews will always need their country to go to, with its Arab population living in equality and at peace with an independent Palestinian nation next door preferably.

        “Oh, and the anti-Semite thing: Don’t even try that here. Very cheap and tawdry.”

        Where have I mentioned anti-Semitism where it wasn’t warranted? When I had to point out that someone used the term Yid the other day?

      • FreddyV
        September 26, 2012, 2:18 pm

        @Bing:

        No, I don’t think any private site is obliged to give a balanced view. The BBC, who are subject to it’s licence payers are required to. If Murdoch’s News Corp wants to lean towards a Zionist narrative, that’s down to their patrons to choose whether they want to tune in and it’s the same with Mondoweiss.

        My point was that Mondoweiss provides news and information about Israel’s occupation of Palestine. By nature it’s not going to provide a flattering narrative of Zionism or an unflattering view of Palestinians. That’s what you asked for. It’s not going to happen.

        The one thing I can say about Mondoweiss is that the reporting is by and large accurate and fair and when any inaccuracies are found, they are duly corrected and apologised for. I generally can’t say the same for Zionist sites of a similar style as the Zionist narrative and history is so steeped in propaganda and falsehood its not even real.

        Sorry? Jews need a country to go to? What on earth are you talking about? If the world had any sense whatsoever, they would have done the just thing and given the Jews Bavaria in 1945, not Palestine where autonomy had been promised to those living in the region. Besides, have you looked at the stats for worldwide Jewry? Half of the Jewish people don’t live in Israel. Why do they need somewhere to go when they’ve largely assimilated into societies as they have done for hundreds of years. Antisemitism is now viewed around the world as repugnant as Jim Crow racism. It’s not 1938 you know.

        But they did give someone else’s land away and a lot of very bad things have happened since. Its time for it to stop. I would hope that antisemitism would be dealt with firmly in the nation it occurs as all racism should be. Your argument is null and void unless you want to include anger some people feel about what Israel currently does. Even that’s not antisemitism and people who conflate Jews with Zionism and Israel are idiots who have bought into Israel’s con trick. Zionism has no shame in screaming antisemitism whilst allowing Jews to suffer if it furthers their ends. History has shown this.

        Israel has made a two state solution all but impossible unless they’re going to clear out the settlements and get back to the 1967 borders. Can you see that happening? It’s going to be one state and hopefully the end of Zionism, but not the end of Jewish people living in the region.

        And warranted or not, you played the anti Semite card here:

        ‘It’s hate for a whole country all dressed up as compassion so the right kind of people (namely not Stormfront anti-Semites) can post here in comfort.’

        Don’t you get it? It’s not hate for Jews, and it isn’t even hate for Israel. It’s hate for what Zionism does. I see a better future based in mutual respect and tolerance. Does that make me a bad person?

      • Bing Bong
        September 26, 2012, 3:54 pm

        The claim of fraudulent anti-Semite claims seems to be yours, you’re always saying it. Along with calling anyone not in the destroy Israel gang a Hasbara troll. Its awfully clever of you.

      • Bing Bong
        September 26, 2012, 6:10 pm

        “No, I don’t think any private site is obliged to give a balanced view.…. it’s the same with Mondoweiss.”

        I didn’t say it was obliged to.

        “My point was that Mondoweiss provides news and information about Israel’s occupation of Palestine. By nature it’s not going to provide a flattering narrative of Zionism or an unflattering view of Palestinians. That’s what you asked for. It’s not going to happen.”

        I know it’s not going to happen, but it provides a lot more than news and information about the occupation and it’s all with the aim of demonising the entire country of Israel in every possible way it can find, even down to printing stories about individual Israelis who are racist idiots as if that is indicative of the entire nation.

        “The one thing I can say about Mondoweiss is that the reporting is by and large accurate and fair…I generally can’t say the same for Zionist sites of a similar style as the Zionist narrative and history is so steeped in propaganda and falsehood its not even real.”

        I disagree with your personal opinion, MW isn’t fair and as you’ve already admitted, it’s reporting isn’t accurate because it doesn’t address both sides fairly like the BBC’s remit. Equally it’s the anti-Israel sites like this that are steeped in propaganda as well as the Zionist ones, you just don’t think they are because you agree with the propaganda.

        “Sorry? Jews need a country to go to? What on earth are you talking about…Why do they need somewhere to go when they’ve largely assimilated into societies as they have done for hundreds of years…It’s not 1938 you know.”

        Did all that anti-Semitism just evaporate then? The reason it’s not 1938 is because thankfully there is Israel. If there wasn’t who are the Jews supposed to rely on to protect them? People like you? And to use your argument, if the Jews have assimilated into societies why can’t the Palestinians do the same, it’s not as if there is a shortage of Arab countries they could go and assimilate into instead of demanding their own country.

        “I would hope that antisemitism would be dealt with firmly in the nation it occurs as all racism should be.”

        Thanks, your hope is worth nothing

        “Your argument is null and void unless you want to include anger some people feel about what Israel currently does.”

        What argument?

        “Israel has made a two state solution all but impossible unless they’re going to clear out the settlements and get back to the 1967 borders. Can you see that happening? It’s going to be one state and hopefully the end of Zionism, but not the end of Jewish people living in the region.”

        I don’t think I’ll take your assurances that a one state solution won’t be the end of the Jews living in the region. All it takes is a government that isn’t the present one to achieve a 2SS.

        “And warranted or not, you played the anti Semite card here:
        ‘It’s hate for a whole country all dressed up as compassion so the right kind of people (namely not Stormfront anti-Semites) can post here in comfort.’”

        So even if it’s warranted pointing out something is anti-Semitic is wrong? I thought “playing the anti-Semite card” itself meant that it wasn’t warranted and was the problem?

        So what do you equate “hate for a whole country” with if that country is Israel and it isn’t anti-Semitism? I explicitly said MW shys away from the Stormfront types of anti-Semitism, indeed I think most here would be moderately appalled by that kind of bigotry. But whatever you call the kind of state of mind that actively permits hate for an entire nation, it’s in full view here and it most certainly isn’t limited to hatred of Zionism. Hating an entire country…terrible business really, whatever you call it.

        “Don’t you get it? It’s not hate for Jews, and it isn’t even hate for Israel. It’s hate for what Zionism does.”

        It’s hate for Israel.

        “I see a better future based in mutual respect and tolerance. Does that make me a bad person?”

        No denying the Jews the right to a country makes you a bad person.

      • Cliff
        September 27, 2012, 6:40 am

        Bing Bong,

        No one here is obligated to condemn Palestinian fostering of hatred so long as they themselves or the general thrust of the anti-Zionist zeitgeist created at MW does not itself reflect such hatred.

        It doesn’t. In spite of your lameass false dichotomies and equivocations.

        Furthermore, Palestinian fostering of hatred is hardly necessary. A people under military occupation and colonialism do not need to be TAUGHT that they should hate their oppressors.

        It is a natural reaction to the wrongs they are enduring.

        Whereas, the Israeli textbooks are based on distorted history, stereotypes and lies designed to instill Zionist social engineering in each subsequent generation if Israeli Jews.

        The Native Americans were not pristine in their resistance to Manifest Destiny and they probably hated the European colonists too. Big f-ing deal.

        Any rational person, not some instigator troll with no life (who probably has been banned from MW multiple times in the past under various sock-puppet accounts), isn’t going to stir shit up over something as academic as whether the Palestinians are adding fuel to the inferno. The inferno is the Israeli’s doing because it is the Israelis who are colonizing and occupying Palestinian land – not the other way around.

        It just so happens that this disgusting attitude and indignance isn’t even reserved exclusively for the Palestinians. Zionists on MW like yourself or more recently, mudracist666, will express repugnantly hateful views without second thought. Yet you are Westernized.

        So what is the commonality? A nationalist ideology that is inherently destabilizing and ‘others’ the surrounding non-tribe members and can only be maintained through deception, lies, PR, tons of money and guns.

        It is curious that you are also implying that there are few anti-Arab and/or anti-Islamic hate in American movies. Cept’ for the ones we ‘google’ of course.

        You can also Google ‘Reel Bad Arabs’ or take off your Zio-Blinders you blithering tool. Lol

      • Cliff
        September 27, 2012, 6:45 am

        Jews don’t deserve a country because religions don’t deserve countries. Furthermore, Jews don’t deserve a country built on land where other people had already lived for thousands of years.

        Hence, those Jews wishing for such a country and their supporters are thieves and hypocrites who continually hide behind the Holocaust Industry and identity politics of the West (while simultaneously mocking the PC crowd for being weak, ineffectual, etc.) to prop up a racist apartheid colonial-settler State.

        It’s obvious that whatever your ethno-religious credentials may be – you are first and foremost a dishonest, instigating, troll who can’t even face us directly (so to speak, lest you see this as an opportunity to prove my point and be a smartass) on these issues.

        So keep using that crutch you coward and go back to the video game forum you followed me here from.

      • eljay
        September 27, 2012, 8:04 am

        >> … if the Jews have assimilated into societies why can’t the Palestinians do the same …

        Damned fine idea! Let Israel be the secular, democratic and egalitarian nation of and for all Israelis equally, and all Palestinians return to their homes and assimilate into Israeli society.

      • Bing Bong
        September 27, 2012, 10:19 am

        “No one here is obligated to condemn Palestinian fostering of hatred so long as they themselves or the general thrust of the anti-Zionist zeitgeist created at MW does not itself reflect such hatred.

        It doesn’t.”

        It does, in spite of you saying it doesn’t. Any why shouldn’t it? MW (like the governments of many surrounding nations) can hate Israel and aim for it’s destruction ostensibly ‘on behalf of’ and with as much intensity as the Palestinians “should hate their oppressors”. If what is said is true, I would have thought.

        What makes you think MW wants a solution that doesn’t see Israel dismantled to the point that the Jews of the world cannot rely on the protection of it’s own country?

        “Whereas, the Israeli textbooks are based on distorted history, stereotypes and lies designed to instill Zionist social engineering in each subsequent generation if Israeli Jews.”

        So the answer to this is to be as biased as possible in the opposite direction? I would have thought the answer would be to find the truth. Not distort things by as much as is claimed was originally distorted in a perverse attempt to redress the balance.

        And yes, I know you think you are telling the truth and the only fair minded rational reaction to this truth is to demonise an entire country. Very good, carry on. If you find yourself demonising an entire country or anyone defending the right of Jews to defend themselves then it’s only natural to assume everything is working out well and your views are sound.

        “Any rational person…isn’t going to stir shit up over something as academic as whether the Palestinians are adding fuel to the inferno. The inferno is the Israeli’s doing because it is the Israelis who are colonizing and occupying Palestinian land – not the other way around.”

        I don’t support the occupation as I’ve said before. I don’t agree with your analysis that it’s a colonial military racist invasion either.

        “A nationalist ideology that is inherently destabilizing and ‘others’ the surrounding non-tribe members and can only be maintained through deception, lies, PR, tons of money and guns.”

        It’s nationalist because the Jews should have a nation from which they can protect themselves. If that idea is only reserved for others in your opinion then that’s just great sunshine, good job. This protection also requires money and guns.

        “Jews don’t deserve a country because religions don’t deserve countries.”

        Jews have been persecuted as a religion and a race. Perhaps you have an idea on how to stop that in future that doesn’t require Israel to exist. Perhaps demonise them on the internet only with things like accusations of Holocaust exploitation but have a firm written guideline policy of only moderate swear words and no violence in real life?

        “It is curious that you are also implying that there are few anti-Arab and/or anti-Islamic hate in American movies. Cept’ for the ones we ‘google’ of course.

        You can also Google ‘Reel Bad Arabs’ or take off your Zio-Blinders you blithering tool. Lol”

        No I’m not implying that, you dirty sh*t-witted gravy brained fecker. I said Woody’s notion of anti-Arab Hollywood movies was not as voluminous as he claimed and at their worst were not as bad as the depths reached by Nazi propaganda films. It’s obvious he had to google the term ‘anti arab films’ to provide even a really weak example.

        The google result link he followed also mentions Reel Bad Arabs. I guess you’ve gone the same route as well in a failed attempt to provide examples in defence of your equally gifted and brave co-googling hero.

      • FreddyV
        September 27, 2012, 10:41 am

        ‘The claim of fraudulent anti-Semite claims seems to be yours, you’re always saying it. Along with calling anyone not in the destroy Israel gang a Hasbara troll. Its awfully clever of you.’

        You’re such a liar it’s untrue.

        Israel destroyed? You really are reaching here. That’s not the reason for Mondoweiss, the reason people post here or indeed the reason stand up for Palestinian rights.

        The Israeli government just needs to stop treating the indigenous people they colonised the land from like shit and perhaps they’ll all start getting along.

      • FreddyV
        September 27, 2012, 11:06 am

        FV: “Don’t you get it? It’s not hate for Jews, and it isn’t even hate for Israel. It’s hate for what Zionism does.”

        BB: It’s hate for Israel.

        Thanks for clarifying what I think and the thoughts of most of the civilised world. Most people who’ve taken the trouble to research are of the opinion that Zionism is an ass backwards hangover from 19th – 20th century colonialism, but you obviously have a different opinion. Good for you. Just don’t tell me what I think.

        FV: “I see a better future based in mutual respect and tolerance. Does that make me a bad person?”

        BB: No denying the Jews the right to a country makes you a bad person.

        I’m not denying the Jews the right to anything. They were granted a homeland at the expense of people already living there. 1947 borders anyone? Certainly the Zionists didn’t think so. They’ve gotten away with stealing land up to the 1967 borders and then further stole land to build settlements. Israel could potentially withdraw from the 1967 borders and East Jerusalem (personally, I think EJ should be a Corpus Separatum as per the Partition Plan and that would ease the problem), but they will have a civil war on their hands with the settlers that Israel has installed.

        So what’s the options? Basically, they’ve put themselves in a corner. 2 states = Civil war. 1 State = Loss of Jewish majority. The status quo = Getting bashed by the world for being a racist non democratic pariah state.

        You can’t blame the Palestinians, their supporters, the surrounding nations, Iran, Ahmadinejad, Hezbollah, Hamas or anyone else for this. The problem is completely of Israel’s making with US support.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 27, 2012, 11:11 am

        “It’s obvious he had to google the term ‘anti arab films’ to provide even a really weak example.”

        LMAO. Moron.

        “The google result link he followed also mentions Reel Bad Arabs.”

        Yawn. Yes, Jack Shaheen has done a great job in cataloguing this vile garbage. But, really, you might be so bigoted against Arabs, misinformed, obtuse not to notice or care about the filth that Hollywood puts out, but as someone who was disgusted back when Israelis Menahem Golan and Yoram Globus (quick, google them, too, so you know what to think…) were spreading their bigoted filth all over American movie screens, I already knew about this problem well before Shaheen’s great book.

      • Cliff
        September 27, 2012, 11:22 am

        Reel Bad Arabs is a book. There is also a documentary based in the book.

        The point of my rebuttal in that regard is that anti-Arab messages and Islamophobia are indeed voluminous in Western media. Who gives a shit if its more than Nazi propaganda or whatever else relation you can misconstrue to whitewash the ‘othering’ of Arabs and Muslims?

        And no, Jews are not a race. There is no such thing as Jewish DNA anymore than there is Christian DNA or Muslim DNA or Scientologist DNA.

        Judaism is a religion. There is Jewish culture of course and thus, Jewish communities and groups of people who kept intermarrying or whatever or passed along the religious connection through their lineage. That does not mean there is Jewish DNA and that does not mean there is or ever will be a spontaneous Jewish race the sprouts out of the primordial ooze of your Zio-fantasy you third-rate sock-puppet failure of a troll.

        Back to Reel Bad Arabs though – the book and its ideas and thesis have been covered here in MW in-depth with other studies as well. Meaning other books that have parsed Hollywood on the topic.

        And yes, Zionist Jews are the main culprits if Holocaust exploitation and utilizing the history of Jewish suffering to further their political agendas.

        None of this supports your second-grader analysis. Boo-hoo, Jews have been persecuted. That still does not justify persecuting and stealing from others to achieve a Jewish safe-haven, and one that is such a relic of history at that.

        I guess I was right about which fail troll you are, judging by your horrible reading comprehension skills.

      • Bing Bong
        September 27, 2012, 6:48 pm

        “Israel destroyed? You really are reaching here. That’s not the reason for Mondoweiss, the reason people post here or indeed the reason stand up for Palestinian rights.”

        In all seriousness, is that really true? I wouldn’t have a problem with MW if that were the case. I’d be interested to know if you really think that MW is genuinely looking for a fair solution (and of course therein lies the rub in what defines that) because the totally one sided demonisation of Israel isn’t conducive to a resolution like that.

        I think that this site is a small part of, yet very good example of why Israel is able to justify intransigence on certain issues and equate that hatred of the Jewish state with the extensive history of hatred of Jews. Whether it’s hostility toward Israel from Arab nations or MW it’s still hostility, and hostility inspires the defensive.

        I said the other day that this site appears to be an all or nothing answer to the ME. That’s not right, in my opinion (for Israel or the Palestinians) and is the essence of what is wrong with this site.

        link to mondoweiss.net

      • FreddyV
        September 28, 2012, 8:33 am

        @Bing Bong:

        ‘I think that this site is a small part of, yet very good example of why Israel is able to justify intransigence on certain issues and equate that hatred of the Jewish state with the extensive history of hatred of Jews. Whether it’s hostility toward Israel from Arab nations or MW it’s still hostility, and hostility inspires the defensive.’

        This, I think is one of the more sensible things that has been said. I’m not shy about saying that I’ve been challenged by and thought about this very subject. I tend to ‘fence jump’ on this. Yes, of course I can see that an accusatory stance is realistically only going to provoke a defensive stance, but it seems that a soft approach only leads to Israel going ahead and doing what they want anyway. For the most part, the world has been cowed into tolerating the Palestinian situation by various means and tactics and those who adopt a more aggressive stance are labeled with various descriptions such as Jew hater or calling for the destruction of Israel / Jews. Such conflations are equally unhelpful but expected from one defending the almost indefensible violations of one group’s rights to accommodate another’s.

        As far as anti Zionism percieved as antisemitism is concerned, I think it’s a very blurred issue. I think we can fairly that hating Jews merely for being Jews doesn’t exist. Whenever this occurs, the anger seems to find it’s basis in what the State does in relation to the conflict or relations to it’s neighbours, or when directed outside the state, it’s directed at those who support the state in it’s various wrongs. It always comes back to the same thing. Not what Israel is intended to be, but what it does.

        The problem is that Israel has committed a lot of wrongs (as have the Palestinians and Israel’s neighbours, I think everyone will agree), and one shouldn’t have to be nice about it. Nice is the more pleasant route to take, I agree with you, but Israel isn’t going to play nice and never has done, so the question is how exactly do you address these wrongdoings if there’s no positive or negative incentive that’s going to shift things.

        BDS is a constructive way, but that’s thrown out as latent antisemitism, the UN is another, but Israel has America so tied up in knots, it immediately jumps to veto any Palestinian aspirations.

        I’m all out of ideas. Do you have a possible solution to the problem? As a supporter of Israel, I’m sure you understand that the situation can’t continue even if for Israel’s sake.

      • FreddyV
        September 28, 2012, 11:51 am

        @Bing:

        I went to your link. Sorry my friend, the waiting game will end. The people of Israel will realise that the world thinks their country is a pariah and they’ll want change.

        Hopefully, Obama’s next term will be a little harder on Israel and a few abstentions from the security council will put paid to this game once and for all.

        Really good that you showed your true colours though. Status quo. Play the waiting game. Nice. Good to know…..

      • Bing Bong
        September 28, 2012, 3:41 pm

        “I went to your link. Sorry my friend, the waiting game will end. The people of Israel will realise that the world thinks their country is a pariah and they’ll want change.”

        My point was MW has to actively state that Israel will reach a point where it will change, (as you put it) usually on MW that change entails the end of Israel. I’m not sure if when you say change you mean the end of Israel or something more constructive like an effort on Israel’s part for a 2SS but its along the same lines of argument. Namely you have to assert (and you’ve just done it right on cue) an absolute faith in this change or the MW position commits itself to an ongoing Palestinian suffering.

        “Really good that you showed your true colours though. Status quo. Play the waiting game. Nice. Good to know…..”

        No, read it again and tell me where I stated I support such a position. C’mon there was almost a civil discussion breaking out there.

        **and can a mod make a decision on my post that’s been awaiting moderation for a while, thanks.

      • FreddyV
        September 29, 2012, 7:36 am

        ‘ C’mon there was almost a civil discussion breaking out there.’

        Fair point. I’d rather go down the civilised route.

        I think it’s evident that all would rather end the current situation. Israel has very justifiable and real fears, which would be ignorant to ignore. Palestine has an unjust situation that is obviously compounded by it’s leadership and the belligerent stance of surrounding nations.

        The status quo is possibly the least line of resistance route for Israel and as long as America has it’s back, it doesn’t have any real cause for undue concern, but my view is that Israel should be genuinely exploring a peaceful solution now rather than waiting for the world political climate to change for their worse

        I don’t know if you caught Ahmadinejad’s UN speech the other day? Whilst I’m not about to suggest that he’s suddenly found rationality (we know he was asked to tone down the inflammatory rhetoric), but his speech was level headed and sensible. Arguably it was utopic and slightly syrupy, but the gist was balanced and sane. On the other hand, Bibi’s speech was unhinged and ridiculous for many of the reasons stated on here on MW. I don’t think Bibi is the right guy for the job and I don’t think he’ll be around soon.

        Hopefully, a time is coming where we find that a group of rational players can get to the table and work this out. 1SS / 2SS, it’s not relevant to us. It’s for the Israelis and Palestinians to work out. The reality is that the people of Israel aren’t going to pack up and move back to where they came from and the Palestinians evidently aren’t going anywhere. I think the reality will be how they work it out rather than Israel’s destruction or a final Nakba for Palestinians.

        As far as Mondo’s position, I’d like to say many here think the same as I do. Obviously some don’t, and whilst I’m not going to defend ‘destroy Israel’ rhetoric, I think it’s often conflated with ‘end Zionism’ by both commenters and accusers much in the same way Ahmadinejad was accused with the ‘wipe Israel off the map’ thing. The problem is that deadlock is almost a prerequisite in the discussion and defense is the default stance. This in my view is the biggest issue with the entire I/P conflict, and it manifests in posts here.

        In reality, given the choice between peaceful solution and destruction or removal of either group from the region, irrespective of which side a person is on, peaceful solution would be the preferred choice of all but a very small minority of those posting here.

        ‘**and can a mod make a decision on my post that’s been awaiting moderation for a while, thanks.’

        My second from last post was held back also. I understand the reasoning behind this. Whilst MW isn’t responsible for content, they do have some house rules and a mod may have thought some of our dialogue may have breached the rules.

      • Bing Bong
        September 29, 2012, 10:07 am

        Thanks for that, I can’t find anything to disagree with in that post.

        Heartening to hear such sentiments Freddy, hopefully see more of the same in future from you and others on MW.

      • Donald
        September 29, 2012, 10:26 am

        FreddyV–Very good post. (Referring to the Sept 92 7:36 AM post, though glancing upthread your other comments look pretty good too.)

      • FreddyV
        September 29, 2012, 12:24 pm

        @Bing Bong and Donald:

        Many thanks for the kind words, particularly from Bing and thank you for your previous post suggesting we actually engage in civilised discussion. I am as guilty as the next guy for letting the red mist take over. My last post gave me some pause for thought about what I honestly believe and demonstrated once again that dialogue will always trump polemics. Thanks for replying with your comment.

    • Ellen
      September 25, 2012, 5:19 pm

      pogomutt, don’t know about your parenting, but my 10 year old boys were never into video games. They are not forbidden, but simply hardly played.

      World over? “The more blood, guts, death, kung fu, and pyrotechnics, the better.”

      In who’s world??

      • pogomutt
        September 25, 2012, 10:07 pm

        In YOUR world, Ellen. Just open your eyes.

      • Cliff
        September 27, 2012, 9:50 am

        Ten year old boys aren’t supposed to be killing Arabs and enjoying it in video games, pogomutt. Perhaps in your Israel-centric world they do. Hopefully that is not the case for most American children.

        I’m playing Borderlands 2 right now and have been playing video games since I was a child. I started off with an NES. Duck Hunt was technically my first FPS. I never felt like going out to kill Arabs or enjoyed killing ‘X’ nationality/race.

        Again it seems only to a hate-infested ZioBot that this sort of vileness is passé.

    • Donald
      September 25, 2012, 6:16 pm

      Yes, we understand you quite well. “Terrorists” aren’t human, but IDF soldiers are. And it’s horrible when Arabs glorify their acts of violence, but just good clean fun when anyone else does it.

      BTW, was Begin human in your view? He was a terrorist, you know. I always thought he was human.

      • pogomutt
        September 25, 2012, 11:51 pm

        Personally I don’t approve of Begin’s murders, but what he did was expeditious in getting on with nation-building. You understand that European refugees flocking to Israel in the 1940’s had just a bit of a burr under their saddles, yes? Begin had a crushing weight on his shoulders. He did what he had to do to secure the survival of what remained of Europe’s Jews. He should be a man greatly admired, not admonished.

      • FreddyV
        September 26, 2012, 6:50 am

        @Pogomutt:

        ‘He did what he had to do to secure the survival of what remained of Europe’s Jews. He should be a man greatly admired, not admonished.’

        I’m gathering from this comment you’re an Israeli. You’ve certainly been fed Zionist propaganda as your understanding of the subject is dismal. Begin may well have imagined his role was to secure the survival of Europe’s Jews.

        You guys seem to love justifying abhorrant acts by attributing some higher moral grounds, but the facts of your statement are completely incorrect.

        link to holocaust-history.org

        Even the immigration tables from the Jewish Virtual Library are at odds with your ‘survival of Europe’s Jews’ argument. Where did all the others go?

        link to jewishvirtuallibrary.org

      • Ellen
        September 26, 2012, 7:02 am

        Pogo, approve or not, Begin was a terrorist and responsible for the murder of innocents in his Zionist quest. Like most all states, Israel is founded on the blood of those in the way of colonial interests.

        But it seems there was a reason Begin spent his last years in private, leaving his apartment rarely. For all his Zionist fanaticism, (which may be understood against the times and conditions in which he grew up) he was never a corrupt man, plundering the state for personal gain, like those that followed him.

        After the Lebanon invasion he became a deeply depressed man by that invasion (among other things) and what Israel and its leaders had become under the likes of Sharon and his band.

        He had dedicated his life to a Zionist movement, never wavering from the idealism of the 22 year old when he joined Jabonisky. Only to see it succumb to the fate of every other ethno nationalist movement as it marched into Lebanon in 1982.

      • Donald
        September 26, 2012, 2:44 pm

        Pogomutt–So you don’t approve of Begin’s murders, but he had to worry about the fate of Jewish refugees, so he did what he had to do and should be greatly admired.

        I’m all in favor of people empathizing or trying to empathize with others, trying to understand what drives them to do awful things, for instance. But try and be consistent. You just said earlier that “terrorists” aren’t human. Now it appears you only meant “Palestinian” terrorists aren’t human. Jewish terrorists like Begin are admirable. That’s not consistent, unless you judge right and wrong by ethnicity.

      • Cliff
        September 27, 2012, 9:53 am

        Begin was a terrorist. He just happens to be your terrorist and so he doesn’t count as a non-person. Once again your cult-mentality shines through and belies your bullshit ‘clash of civ’ / Sam Harris, Chris Hitchens / neo-blah-blah claptrap.

        You are a dime a dozen Zionist tool.

  14. American
    September 25, 2012, 12:53 pm

    New Profile – Movement for the Civilization of Israel

    Aply named….but I think they are fighting a losing battle.
    From all indications and reports the majority of Israeli society is either actively or passively racist and totally into zionist supremism.

  15. Susan Johnson
    September 25, 2012, 1:12 pm

    I wish I felt shock. Yes, I feel disgust watching the video. Children are being exploited and programmed to glorify violence and hatred; in this case in Israel their target “arabs”/Palestinians. Teaching children to hate is destroying our future, the future of the world.

    We hear the “fact” that children in Gaza’s schools are taught to hate Israelis. It always calls me to remember the photo of the Israeli children laughing as the write “hate notes” on missiles destined for Gaza. Who is trying to teach children to respect and want peace? I suspect that would take adults who believe those things themselves. Where are they?
    Are we in the US forgetting our museums, TV, movies and video games? I wish I believed the majority of ten year olds were playing with farm tractors. Too many children are being formally and informally taught to hate and that it’s justified. Look at our present situation: adults discriminating, calling for hatred against Muslims, immigrants, gays, etc are accepted, respected and in cases, leading our country?
    Why are so many following cries of the Christian Right, Zionists and the likes?

    As a child I grew up in Tennessee. My classrooms accommodated women with flannel boards teaching bible stories. Unlike blacks they were welcomed and respected. My mother insisted I not participate in these lessons (we were Episcopalians). She reached an arrangement with the school district.. Each week when they arrived, I would drag my desk and chair into the hall when they taught their lessons. There I spent an hour awaiting the women’s dirty looks and pious prayers for my soul as they left and the taunts of “you’re going to the devil” from my classmates as I dragged my desk and chair back into the classroom.

    Is this where our future is headed once again?

    • seafoid
      September 26, 2012, 3:46 am

      Susan

      We have a 10 year old. If he brought back a kid who sat at our table and started talking about killing Arabs/Jews/Latinos/Yugoslavs he wouldn’t be back a second time.

      There’s a big difference between adult discourse and what kids actually express.
      A 10 year old who is so indoctrinated into the cult of militarism is a product of his education system. And it says a lot about his parents.

      Israel is like the Japan of the 1930s.

  16. Kathleen
    September 25, 2012, 2:58 pm

    If this were Palestinian children saying this about Israeli’s MSNBC host Rachel Maddow, Ed, Al Sharpton etc would be all over the story.

    • Woody Tanaka
      September 25, 2012, 4:07 pm

      The US media is like that. Ahmadinejad appeared before the UN and attacked the US specifically and the West generally repeatedly and at length. He made two or three passing references to israel (primarily in the guise of attacking the West) and how does the NY Post and NY Daily News portray it?? As him attacking “Jews” and “Israel” It’s pathetic the way these media folks are.

  17. tear-stained uzi
    September 25, 2012, 4:18 pm

    Awwwww, so cute!

    This is Feeling the Hate: The Next Generation.

    Remember, kiddies: try to look sad as you squeeze the trigger — Bubbe Golda is watching over you from Heaven! Make her kvell!

    Now, if you’ll excuse me, gotta dress myself in sackcloth and ashes before I swan-dive into the briar patch. Or drink until I black out. Maybe both.

    I wish I could un-watch this video.

  18. Donald
    September 25, 2012, 6:04 pm

    Depressing overall and I’ve got nothing to add on that front, but I liked the little kid in the orange shirt who didn’t want to join the army and when asked why replied with uncommon good sense in this film, “I might get shot.” A future Yossarian.

    • tear-stained uzi
      September 25, 2012, 9:53 pm

      I agree. There’s definitely hope for that kid; he really seemed like he’d rather be somewhere else.

      On the other hand, the Givati Brigade boy, whose dad was Givati, and who’d been to all those other military shrines… his current trajectory is ominous.

      This is child abuse.

  19. Donald
    September 25, 2012, 6:12 pm

    The piece about the filmmakers in Adam’s link in the article is worth reading. It mentions Borat. I’ve never seen Borat, but my impression is that it makes fun of racist idiots if they are Muslim or Christian, but overlooks other categories of racist idiots. It’s a gap that needs filling and apparently these guys are the ones to fill it, based on what they tried here–

    “It’s a sunny day in Brighton Beach, New York. Two young men with broken English but resolute expressions on their faces walk up to the passersby (the majority of whom are Jewish) and ask them to donate money for a noble cause. “We work for an organization called JKA – ‘Jews Kill Arabs,” they explain, “and are fundraising for the purpose of killing or expelling the Arabs in Israel.”

    Many of the people pull out their wallets and contribute, not before they get a chance to specify which solution they prefer for the “Arab problem” – cages, eviction, or that a massive bomb be dropped on their houses.

    • tear-stained uzi
      September 25, 2012, 10:25 pm

      “Borat … makes fun of racist idiots if they are Muslim or Christian, but overlooks other categories of racist idiots.”

      Exactly. Sacha Baron Cohen is like Bill Maher in that way.

      He also loves to make his buffoonish characters spew lots of anti-semitic garbage. I’ve started noticing this tactic in many movies and TV shows, too. It’s become such a cliché; it’s a lazy way for Zionist writers to brand the ‘bad guy,’ like the old Western villain in his ubiquitous black cowboy hat.

      It’s a great way to make sure the goyim remember that anti-semitism is not just the very worst form of prejudice imaginable, but that all the world’s worst villains share Jew-hatred as a universal (evil) value. It also reinforces the belief that anti-semitism is widespread, when true AS is exceedingly rare in the ‘real’ world (sorry, Abe Foxman!).

      • Bing Bong
        September 26, 2012, 8:05 am

        “He also loves to make his buffoonish characters spew lots of anti-semitic garbage. I’ve started noticing this tactic in many movies and TV shows, too. It’s become such a cliché; it’s a lazy way for Zionist writers to brand the ‘bad guy,’ like the old Western villain in his ubiquitous black cowboy hat.”

        You have to support Zionism or be a Zionist (in this case a Zionist writer) to tactically think/show anti-Semites as bad? And why are you watching so many movies and TV shows written by Zionists? Along with their “anti-Semitism signifies bad” cliched narrative devices what other Zionist madness are you exposing yourself too?

        “but that all the world’s worst villains share Jew-hatred as a universal (evil) value.”

        Darth Vader? He did freeze Harrison Ford (Jew) in that block of black concrete at the end of The Empire Strikes Back I suppose.

        “It also reinforces the belief that anti-semitism is widespread, when true AS is exceedingly rare in the ‘real’ world”

        Is true anti-Semitism like “legitimate rape”? Luckily we live in more enlightened times where Islamophobia isn’t widespread either. Hang on….let me take a wild stab in the dark here, it is right?

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 26, 2012, 9:29 am

        “You have to support Zionism or be a Zionist (in this case a Zionist writer) to tactically think/show anti-Semites as bad?”

        No, but the point is that it is portrayed as the worst thing in the world. Why are there no series of bad guys whose anti-Arab bigotry or Islamophobia (which are absolutely no different than antisemitism) used as shorthand for “bad guy”?? Because Hollywood and American media in general, are, themselves, bigoted against Arabs and Muslims.

      • Bing Bong
        September 27, 2012, 5:52 am

        “Because Hollywood and American media in general, are, themselves, bigoted against Arabs and Muslims.”

        Like in that Rules of Engagement movie you googled.

      • Cliff
        September 27, 2012, 9:56 am

        Bing Bong said:

        And why are you watching so many movies and TV shows written by Zionists?

        ———-

        Is this a joke question? LOL

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 27, 2012, 10:21 am

        “Like in that Rules of Engagement movie you googled.”

        Google, hell. I saw it in the theater. Got my money back, too.

      • Bing Bong
        September 27, 2012, 11:04 am

        “Google, hell. I saw it in the theater. Got my money back, too.”

        And did you read Reel Bad Arabs when you got home?

  20. bobsmith
    September 25, 2012, 6:19 pm

    This is what they teach them in the madrassas.

  21. eljay
    September 25, 2012, 7:08 pm

    Wow, killing Arabs and “defending” the oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist “Promised Land” “Jewish State” of Israel sounds like such fun!! Gosh, who wouldn’t want to do it?!

    >> … I liked the little kid in the orange shirt who didn’t want to join the army and when asked why replied with uncommon good sense in this film, “I might get shot.”

    He’s the only kid in the bunch with any brains! Hopefully he has a sense of morality and justice to match his smarts.

  22. Blake
    September 25, 2012, 10:03 pm

    Very disturbed psyche but then what would one expect from a state born out of terrorism.

  23. piotr
    September 25, 2012, 10:58 pm

    link to wyborcza.pl
    The video in this link is perhaps unbeatable.

    One difference is that due to complaints of unpatriotic elements and the spineless attitude of the Ministry of Education this teaching initiative was interrupted.

  24. DICKERSON3870
    September 26, 2012, 12:28 am

    RE: “Video: Israeli kids in the army museum (‘I picture a dead Arab and that makes me happy’)”

    MY COMMENT: Wherever do Israeli children learn such things? I thought Kach was banned long ago.

    OH, NOW I REMEMBER: “Academic claims Israeli school textbooks contain bias” ~ By Harriet Sherwood, guardian.co.uk, 8/07/11
    Nurit Peled-Elhanan of Hebrew University says textbooks depict Palestinians as “terrorists, refugees and primitive farmers”

    [EXCERPT] Nurit Peled-Elhanan, an Israeli academic, mother and political radical, summons up an image of rows of Jewish schoolchildren, bent over their books, learning about their neighbours, the Palestinians. But, she says, they are never referred to as Palestinians unless the context is terrorism.
    They are called Arabs. “The Arab with a camel, in an Ali Baba dress. They describe them as vile and deviant and criminal, people who don’t pay taxes, people who live off the state, people who don’t want to develop,” she says. “The only representation is as refugees, primitive farmers and terrorists. You never see a Palestinian child or doctor or teacher or engineer or modern farmer.”
    Peled-Elhanan, a professor of language and education at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, has studied the content of Israeli school books for the past five years, and her account, “Palestine in Israeli School Books: Ideology and Propaganda in Education”, is to be published in the UK this month. She describes what she found as racism– but, more than that, a racism that prepares young Israelis for their compulsory military service. . .

    ENTIRE ARTICLE – link to guardian.co.uk

    VIDEO of interview with Peled-Elhanan (08:48) – link to youtube.com

    P.S. ALSO SEE: Is Change possible in Israel? (VIDEO, 07:49) – link to youtube.com
    Prof. Haim Bresheeth tries to answer this question – why can some Israelis change, and support the Palestinian cause, but change seems elusive in Israel? Should we wait and hope for such change?

    • tear-stained uzi
      September 26, 2012, 4:57 am

      “They are called Arabs. ‘… They describe them as vile and deviant and criminal, people who don’t pay taxes, people who live off the state, people who don’t want to develop,’ she says.”

      According to Mitt Romney, 47% of Americans are just like the “Arabs” in Israeli textbooks. If only they’d take some personal responsibility, these awful fictitious “Arabs,” they’d wake up and realize how wrong they’ve been to resist being ethnically cleansed by a superior culture, and they’d apologize to the Israelis, pack up their tacky IKEA furniture, and return to their various backward “Arab” countries, from whence they’d swarmed only after they saw the Jews make the desert bloom.

      As for those shiftless make-believe “Americans,” those ersatz “Takers”: if they’d only listen to their betters, they’d get up off their lazy, dole-swaddled behinds and vote for the only candidate made of 100% genuine US plastic, Mitt Rob-me (Available for a limited time: Univision Mitt, now in terracotta semi-gloss, still with just the right amount of gray™).

  25. YoungMassJew
    September 26, 2012, 12:50 am

    It is beyond sickening how matter of factly the kids talk about killing Arabs. Can’t put it in words.

  26. mlake9
    September 26, 2012, 4:08 am

    Do Palestinians ever ask “why do they hate us?”

  27. Mac
    September 26, 2012, 8:26 am

    Call me racist, but those little Jewish kids look just like Arab kids to me. They are definitely first cousins.

    • piotr
      September 26, 2012, 3:46 pm

      Mac,

      as Romney explained, the superiority is cultural. “We” believe in God, family life, goals larger than ourselves and Arabs are atheist metrosexuals who believe only in fleeting pleasures (wait a minute… is it possible that Romney’s explanations made no sense?) Anyway, Arabs have no sense of freedom and enterpreneurial spirit and Sharia is inferior to Halacha.

      • Shmuel
        September 26, 2012, 3:59 pm

        Anyway, Arabs have no sense of freedom and enterpreneurial spirit and Sharia is inferior to Halacha.

        And worst of all, they don’t drink! Oh, wait …

  28. pogomutt
    September 29, 2012, 1:39 pm

    So tell me all you good comrades, since you’re busy reviling military memorials and the like, what do you think of Israel’s plan to erect a memorial to the Red Army on the shores of Netanya? You’re familiar with the Red Army, yes? Its commander in chief was Joseph Stalin. He’s the one who wanted to resettle the Soviet Union’s Jews to the east. He’s also the one who planned to annihilate the Soviet Union’s Jews following the Doctor’s Plot, in way of inciting the West into WWIII for a final ideological showdown. When history’s accounting ledger finally comes clean, we’ll probably discover that in the decades of his nightmare dystopia, he probably murdered nearly as many Jews as Hitler.

Leave a Reply