Most Israelis say, it’s apartheid. Not that there’s anything wrong with that!

Israel/PalestineUS Politics
on 47 Comments
welcome to apartheid1
Haaretz reports a majority of Israeli-Jews want to live in an apartheid state where Jews and    Palestinians are separate and unequal– as they are on this road in Hebron, 2012. (Photo: Jonny Ward/onestep4ward.com)

In the United States nothing stops a conversation on Israel shorter than dropping the “A” word, “apartheid.” Literally millions are spent to counter events like “Israel Apartheid Week,” and there are pro-Israel advocacy groups and public relations firms whose raison d’être is presenting the Jewish “democracy” as more democratic than anywhere else in the Middle East. “Where in the Middle East do Jews and Arabs Play Together?” asks one billboard by the San Francisco-based Blue Star PR—”Only in Israel.”

But according to a new poll by an Israeli data firm a majority of Israelis don’t want to play—or study, live, eat or drive anywhere near an Arab. Rather, they want an Apartheid state.

bscoexist pppa
“Only in Israel,” not anymore as a majority of Israelis prefer “apartheid.”
(Image: Blue Star PR)

In two articles by Gideon Levy published today in Haaretz the results of a survey by Dialog are presented: 58% of Israeli Jews believe Israel practices apartheid in the West Bank, and they are fine with that. In fact Israelis are so comfortable with institutionalized discrimination that a third said they do not want Palestinians citizens of Israel to have the right to vote and 69% do not think Palestinians in the West Bank deserve to vote in the case of Israel annexing the occupied territory.

Such displays of racism, or the desire to live separately from Palestinians, or even transfer them (code for ethnic cleansing) is not new to Israeli society—or survey results. Over the past decade Israeli universities have published data showing a rise from around 60% of Israelis wanting Palestinians to disappear to 68% today. Even back in 1991 during the height of the first Intifada, a quarter of Israeli-Jews said they wanted to transfer the Palestinians citizens of Israel.

But what makes me feel like I’m being whacked across the face when reading both of Levy’s articles is not the percentages, it’s the arrogance. In great numbers, of the 503 interviewed, around half think they deserve to be treated “better.”

Levy writes,

59 percent, wants preference for Jews over Arabs in admission to jobs in government ministries. Almost half the Jews, 49 percent, want the state to treat Jewish citizens better than Arab ones; 42 percent don’t want to live in the same building with Arabs and 42 percent don’t want their children in the same class with Arab children.

In his op-ed Levy calls this comfort and desire for Jewish privilege at the expense of Palestinians “apartheid without shame or guilt.” Where his first article, the reported piece, is all facts and figures, his second is his heart, which too is having an arrhythmia over the “certain innocent candor” expressed in the survey results:

Among its terrifying results, the survey discovers a certain innocent candor. The Israelis admit this is what they are and they’re not ashamed of it. Such surveys have been held before, but Israelis have never appeared so pleased with themselves, even when they admit their racism. Most of them think Israel is a good place to live in and most of them think this is a racist state.

It’s good to live in this country, most Israelis say, not despite its racism, but perhaps because of it. If such a survey were released about the attitude to Jews in a European state, Israel would have raised hell. When it comes to us, the rules don’t apply.

Or to put it more bluntly, Levy says the survey tells the world “We’re racists,” continuing, “we practice apartheid and we even want to live in an apartheid state. Yes, this is Israel.”

 

About Allison Deger

Allison Deger is the Assistant Editor of Mondoweiss.net. Follow her on twitter at @allissoncd.

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47 Responses

  1. Mndwss
    October 23, 2012, 2:27 pm

    “it’s the arrogance”

    A lot of my friends and family have served in UNIFIL in Lebanon.

    ALL (absolutely all) describe Israelis as the most arrogant people on the planet.

    I can understand why Israel does not want more UN soldiers to monitor what they do…

    • Miura
      October 23, 2012, 7:35 pm

      I remember reading the comment of a retired UN soldier (from New Zealand or Australia as I recall) who counted himself as a diehard supporter of all things Israeli before he had to serve in Lebanon, an experience that turned him into a despiser of all things–including personnel–related to Israel Defense Force. Anecdotally, TLV is regarded as more of a “hardship” overseas destination for flight attendants on US and Europe based airlines than even some crime-ridden cities of South America and the difficulty is more inflight than any dangers that await you once you’ve landed. I guess the reason is the same as to why Boers in Apartheid South Africa were notorious for their boorishness: it’s difficult to retain humanity if your foot is on the neck of a prostrate people.

    • kalithea
      October 23, 2012, 9:31 pm

      No surprise there. Whenever I encounter them online I’m arrogant right back at them! Nothing drives them berserk like a taste of their own “medicine”.

      • Krauss
        October 24, 2012, 1:26 am

        For people who want to see the poll data in graphic, here it is:

        link to haaretz.com

        The link works as of now, even if you are a non-paying reader of Haaretz.

    • Walid
      October 24, 2012, 2:23 am

      “I can understand why Israel does not want more UN soldiers to monitor what they do…” (Mndwss)

      UNIFIL in Lebanon is not there to monitor Israel but to protect Israel from the Lebanese side of the border. Over 200 UNIFIL peacekeepers have been killed in Lebanon, many if not most of them by Israel. It isn’t any wonder that UNIFIL people don’t like or trust Israel. The names of the fallen UNIFIL soldiers are engraved on a stone monument at the Rest House turnabout in Tyr, Taxi has surely seen it. As to UNIFIL protecting Israel, here it is about Germany’s role in UNSC 1701 from the horse’s mouth:

      From Spiegel Sept 2006:

      “Chancellor Angela Merkel said Germany’s first military mission in the region since World War II was historic because it underlined the country’s responsibility for protecting Israel and its growing role in world affairs following unification.”

      link to spiegel.de

      • Mndwss
        October 24, 2012, 11:58 am

        “UNIFIL in Lebanon is not there to monitor Israel but to protect Israel from the Lebanese side of the border.”

        Yes i know.

        Many Norwegians joined UNIFIL to help Israel. But when they came to Lebanon they understood who needed help.

        I think this is why so many norwegians support Palestinians. More than 2% of the population went to Lebanon and came back and told the rest how Israelis behave.

  2. American
    October 23, 2012, 2:58 pm

    “But what makes me feel like I’m being whacked across the face when reading both of Levy’s articles is not the percentages, it’s the arrogance. In great numbers, of the 503 interviewed, around half think they deserve to be treated “better.”

    ”In his op-ed Levy calls this comfort and desire for Jewish privilege at the expense of Palestinians “apartheid without shame or guilt.”>>>>>>

    Dont’ know why anyone would be surprised by this.
    Doesn’t matter what Israel and zionism was ‘on paper’, in actual practice it has been about Jewish privilage and supremacy.

  3. seafoid
    October 23, 2012, 3:02 pm

    The Haredi numbers were the worst, the most extremist.
    And I haven’t seen any notable rabbis condemn the thinking of 69% of Jewish Israelis.

    This is really great stuff coming out of Israel. Let’s see the Dersh spin it “Israelis are just like us”:

    No they @#$%ing aren’t

  4. Henry Norr
    October 23, 2012, 3:23 pm

    Those who (like me) refuse to pay Haaretz can find the full text of Gideon Levy’s first article on this survey – the one that’s “all facts and figures,” in Allison’s words – at link to pakistankakhudahafiz.com

    Thanks, Google News!

    • seafoid
      October 23, 2012, 3:46 pm

      Henry

      I personally think Ha’aretz are deserving of financial support. I wouldn’t take out a sub with the NYT but Ha’aretz does a decent job in a very tough neighbourhood and Levy get his salary from subs and newspaper sales.

      • Henry Norr
        October 23, 2012, 4:29 pm

        I’m torn, Seafoid – I appreciate your perspective, and I certainly admire the work of Gideon Levy, Amira Hass, and occasionally some of the other reporters and columnists. But on the whole the paper doesn’t actually cover the occupation very well, at least in English (and I’d guess it’s even worse in Hebrew). Just compare what Haaretz has from the West Bank and Gaza on any given day to the same day’s coverage at imemc.org (where I once was a volunteer editor) or the Palestine News Network or Ma’an (which isn’t to say those sources don’t have their own problems and limitations).

        Besides, I find most of Haaretz’s stories are written from inside “the Israeli consensus” – i.e., they are pervaded by Jewish ethnocentrism. They have minimal coverage of the lives and opinions of Palestinians with Israeli citizenship. While they do sometimes print things from Avnery, they routinely ignore or disparage or condescend to the activists I most admire (the Palestinian popular committees and Stop the Wall groups, the BDS National Committee, the ISM, the Anarchists Against the Wal, Ta’ayush, etc.). On Iran, even when they are critical of Netanyahu, it’s usually tactical (“this isn’t good for our image”) – they don’t seem to recognize the profound mendacity, immorality, illegality, and sheer cynicism of the whole campaign.

        So, weighing up the whole picture, I come down against giving them money.

      • seafoid
        October 23, 2012, 5:16 pm

        There is definitely something in that angle, Henry, and that is one of the reasons why I like Ha’aretz- it is written a lot of the time from inside the wagon circle and I find the discord with how we think outside to be very interesting. I don’t think a mess like Zionism can be understood from just one newspaper’s perspective so a wider diet is advisable but Ha’aretz is a great insight. I love the Jewish religious stuff especially on the high holidays. Some of it is really off the wall.

        I agree on Iran. There is a lot of crap. Imagine what Ma’ariv must be like.

        On a more serious note I think Israeli liberalism is an endangered species and it won’t be long before Ha’aretz gets the Zochrot treatment.

        I think Israel would/will be a much poorer place without Ha’aretz. No mainstream newspaper anywhere could survive on a diet of Gideon Levys (It was lenny bruce who said There is only what is and that’s it. What should be is a dirty lie) but the fact that they keep this line open is really important and deserves support.

        And the name means “the land” which is the root of all the problems.

      • tree
        October 23, 2012, 5:28 pm

        Henry,

        Unless they have changed their policy in the last two months, you can still access up to 10 Haaretz articles per month for free, with a simple act of registration.

      • Elliot
        October 23, 2012, 5:51 pm

        Henry – thank you for the introduction to the imemc site.

    • thankgodimatheist
      October 24, 2012, 5:43 am

      The article is also available here:
      link to angryarabscommentsection.blogspot.com.au

      • thankgodimatheist
        October 24, 2012, 5:49 am

        Sorry it’s off topic but I thought it’s worth it.

        “Four of five speakers pull out of UNESCO conference honoring Israel’s Peres at University of Connecticut

        A “human rights” conference at the University of Connecticut was in disarray after almost all the speakers pulled out. The Hartford Courant reports today:

        Four of the five speakers scheduled to address a conference on human rights scheduled for [today] Tuesday at the University of Connecticut canceled Monday, with one of those speakers saying she would not come because the event was honoring Israeli President Shimon Peres.
        link to electronicintifada.net

  5. seafoid
    October 23, 2012, 3:35 pm

    Gideon Levy is like Israel’s unwanted conscience .
    I think he and Amira Hass are doing really important journalism at the moment and they put most of the US MSM to shame.

    And not everyone appreciates what they do.. it’s very disturbing

    link to haaretz.com

    So why haven’t they hanged you yet,Kapo Levi ? By Absolute Sweden
    23 Oct 2012
    00:04PM

    # 23 LOL Absolute Swede, Good one! By Big bad Jew
    23 Oct 2012
    01:38PM

    BTW Alison any chance of a post on the Anat Hoffman arrest for the crime of praying as a woman at the Western Wall ?

    link to haaretz.com

  6. ToivoS
    October 23, 2012, 4:06 pm

    42 percent don’t want to live in the same building with Arabs

    Now I recall a poll a few years back, 2007 or so, that reported close to 60% of Israeli Jews would not want to live in an Apt building with Palestinians. Here is a scary thought: Maybe this latest poll is biased towards “progressive” Zionists?

  7. yonah fredman
    October 23, 2012, 6:55 pm

    Disturbing numbers. I idealize New York diversity, although my upbringing in traditional Jewish observance certainly still has some vestiges in my reactions and opinions.
    Some reasons for the numbers: 1. The conflict. Israel as at war with the Arabs. (The simplicity of this sentence invites scorn?) Another formulation- the enemy are the Arabs= Arabs are the enemy.
    2. The occupation. It has hardened Israelis.
    3. The 2nd intifada. Kids who were 4 or 5 years old 10 years ago and people were afraid to take buses are 14 and 15 years old now. How do scared 4 year olds process this information of living in fear as Jerusalemites were in 2001? It does not surprise me that it planted a seed of hate.
    4. The attraction of Israel to traditional types. Despite the state of Israel’s success in its attempt to uproot tradition from the midst of the Jews arriving from Arab countries, this population’s rebellion against the state is more expressed in adherence to Shas and tradition, than in any other phenomenon. Obviously the Haredi population is increasing and the religious Zionist population is “holding its own” (whereas in America the modern Orthodox are seen as a way station between modernity and tradition and as a passing phenomenon while over the generations people will tend either to black hat Orthodoxy or secularism/assimilation and abandon the way station, in Israel modern Orthodoxy is a vibrant movement. Their vibrancy unfortunately is tied into the settler movement. On the other hand the modern Orthodoxy of America is vibrant as an idea if not as a mass movement. The feminist portion of modern Orthodoxy especially is a vibrant idea and that is based mostly in America, or in American Jews who’ve relocated to Israel.)

    • seafoid
      October 24, 2012, 4:01 am

      The feminist portion of modern Orthodoxy especially is a vibrant idea and that is based mostly in America, or in American Jews who’ve relocated to Israel.)

      link to haaretz.com

      Try to imagine this in an account of a foreign regime: A Jewish person wearing a prayer shawl is heard publicly chanting the Sh’ma, the core statement of Judaism. The regime’s state-funded clerics and its judiciary have ruled that such worship “hurts the feelings” of other people in the area, thus constituting a disturbance of the peace.

      Police arrest and manhandle the worshipper, who is jailed and subjected to an all-night string of humiliations, before coming before a judge. Authorities ask the court to banish the Jew from the site for a period of 15 days. The judge goes far beyond: the banishment will last an entire month.

      What happens next is perhaps the least likely scenario:

      Israel does nothing about it. Israeli media barely report the story. It is considered of no interest to the public, nor the government.

      Why not? Because it happened in Israel.

    • eljay
      October 24, 2012, 8:26 am

      >> Israel as at war with the Arabs.

      Poor little supremacist “Jewish State”. All it does is occupy, steal, colonize, destroy, oppress, cleanse and kill, but for some reason those dirty, nasty Aye-rabs REFUSE to like it! :-(

      >> 2. The occupation. It has hardened Israelis.

      i) And yet they STILL refuse to end the occupation. Poor little hardened Israelis – aggressor-victimhood is such a tough gig! :-(
      ii) Just imagine what the illegal and immoral occupation has done to the Zio-supremacist “Jewish State’s” victims.

    • Stephen Shenfield
      October 24, 2012, 9:46 am

      It seems to me that the “new historians” have also contributed to the shift in mentality, without intending to. Typical Israeli psychology before 1967 was based on denial: they tried to forget how the state was established in order to maintain their image (including self-image) as decent liberal people. Along come the new historians and shove the truth in their face, forcing them to abandon denial. But the response, except for a small minority, was not to try to change in order to conform better with the image but rather to abandon the image in order not to have to change: “Alright, so what?” Benny Morris then adapts to that mood and explains that by exposing the Nakba it was not his intention to condemn it. God forbid!

      Well, in the long run this may all be for the best. The mask is off: Israel impudently demands that the world accept from them what it repudiates from anyone else. This won’t wash, or at least not for very long. Israel will increasingly find itself isolated and will fall to pieces. The problem is how much havoc it will wreak before the process has time to complete itself.

  8. Mayhem
    October 23, 2012, 8:03 pm

    As usual no sense of perspective shown by those who wish to push their agenda wagon.

    Most Israeli Jews would support apartheid regime in Israel

    The title of the Haaretz article shows the disingenuousness of a survey that reveals nothing substantive, is statistically suspect and is basically self-serving.

    Paraphrasing the words of one of the commenters at Haaretz:

    The headline “Most Israeli Jews would support apartheid regime in Israel” isn’t supported by the survey. The “there is apartheid in Israel” (58%) wasn’t a yes or no question, but one in which they were allowed to answer “in some ways” (39%) or “in most ways” (19%). “In some ways” could mean anything – e.g. there are separate schools/roads. As to “would support an apartheid regime”, that was NOT asked, but is being extrapolated from the other questions about apartheid-like measures which could be implemented if the West Bank was annexed.

    This paragraph is revealing: “The survey conductors say perhaps the term “apartheid” was not clear enough to some interviewees. However, the interviewees did not object strongly to describing Israel’s character as “apartheid” already today, without annexing the territories. Only 31 percent objected to calling Israel an “apartheid state” and said “there’s no apartheid at all.” What does “no apartheid at all” mean? It really should have been a binary question – yes or no Israel is (or should be) broadly comparable to South African apartheid?

    By the logic of this survey, any country with a substantial minority with affected rights is an “apartheid state”, because there are aspects of the society which reflect some aspects of apartheid. But that logic is fallacious. As we are all well aware, calling a state an “apartheid” state is a loaded, emotive allegation and one which needs to be used carefully for it to be meaningful and useful in any discussion.

    Reference to a Muslim country like Malaysia which practises truly blatant apartheid is useful.

    There are no complaining voices to be heard from the supposedly socially concerned, who focus so heavily on accusations of apartheid against Israel, overlooking countries like Malaysia where apartheid is openly enshrined and practised with impunity.

    In Malaysia:

    (1) Of the five major banks, only one is multi-racial, the rest are controlled by Malays.
    (2) 99% of leading gas company Petronas directors are Malays.
    (3) 3% of Petronas employees are Chinese.
    (4) 99% of 2000 Petronas gasoline stations are owned by Malays.
    (5) 100% all contractors working under Petronas projects must be of Bumis status (special position of the Malays provided in the Federal Constitution of Malaysia).
    (6) 0% of non-Malay staff are legally required in Malay companies. But there must be 30% Malay staffs in Chinese companies.
    (7) 5% of all new intake for government police, nurses, army, are non-Malays.
    (8) 2% is the present Chinese staff in Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF), a drop from 40% in 1960.
    (9) 2% is the percentage of non-Malay government servants in Putrajaya, but Malays make up 98%.
    (10) 7% is the percentage of Chinese government servants in the entire government (in 2004); a drop from 30% in 1960.
    (11) 95% of government contracts are given to Malays.
    (12) 100% all business licensees are controlled by Malay government, e..g. Taxi permits, Approved permits, etc.
    (13) 80% of the Chinese rice millers in Kedah had to be sold to Malay controlled Bernas in 1980s. Otherwise, life is made difficult for Chinese rice millers.
    (14) 100 big companies set up, owned and managed by Chinese Malaysians were taken over by government, and later managed by Malays since 1970s, e.g. UTC, UMBC, MISC, Southern Bank etc.
    (15) At least 10 Chinese owned bus companies (throughout Malaysia in the past 40 years) had to be sold to MARA or other Malay transport companies due to rejection by Malay authorities to Chinese applications for bus routes and rejection for their applications for new buses.
    (16) Two Chinese taxi drivers were barred from driving in Johor Larkin bus station. There are about 30 taxi drivers and three were Chinese in Oct. 2004. Spoiling taxi club properties was the reason given.
    (17) 0 non-Malays are allowed to get shop lots in the new Muar bus station (Nov.. 2004).
    (18) 48 Chinese primary schools closed down from 1968 – 2000.
    (19) 144 Indian primary schools closed down from 1968 – 2000.
    (20) 2637 Malay primary schools built from 1968 – 2000.
    (21) 2.5% is government budget for Chinese primary schools. Indian schools got only 1%, Malay schools got 96.5%.
    (22) While a Chinese parent with RM1000 salary (monthly) cannot get school textbook loan, a Malay parent with RM2000 salary is eligible.
    (23) All 10 public university vice chancellors are Malays.
    (24) 5% of the government universities’ lecturers are of non-Malay origins. This percentage has been reduced from about 70% in 1965 to only 5% in 2004.
    (25) Only 5% has been given to non-Malays for government scholarships in over 40 years.
    (26) 0 Chinese or Indians were sent to Japan and Korea under the ‘Look East Policy.’
    (27) 128 STPM Chinese top students could not get into the course to which they aspired, i.e. Medicine (in 2004).
    (28) 10% quotas are in place for non-Bumi students for MARA science schools beginning in 2003, but only 7% are filled. Before that it was 100% Malays.
    (29) 2 million Chinese Malaysians have emigrated in the past 40 years.
    (30) 0.5 million Indian Malaysians have emigrated overseas.
    (31) 3 millions Indonesians have migrated to Malaysia and become Malaysian citizens with Bumis status.
    (32) 600,000 Chinese and Indian Malaysians with red IC were rejected repeatedly when applying for citizenship in the past 40 years. Perhaps 60% of them had already passed away due to old age. This shows racism, based on how easily Indonesians got their citizenships compared with the Chinese and Indians.
    (33) 5% – 15% discount for a Malay to buy a house, regardless whether the Malay is rich or poor.
    (34) 2% is what new Chinese villages get, compared with 98% – what Malay villages got for rural development budget.
    (35) 0 temples/churches were built for each housing estate. But every housing estate got at least one mosque/surau built.
    (36) 3000 mosques/surau were built in all housing estates throughout Malaysia since 1970. No temples or churches are required to be built in housing estates.
    (37) 1 Catholic church in Shah Alam took 20 years to apply to have a building constructed. But they were told by Malay authority that it must look like a factory and not like a church. As of 2004 the application still have not been approved.
    (38) 1 publishing of Bible in Iban language banned (in 2002).
    (39) 0 of the government TV stations (RTM1, RTM2, TV3) are directors of non-Malay origin.
    (40) Only 3 out of 12 human rights items are ratified by the Malaysian government since 1960.
    (41) 0 – elimination of all forms of racial discrimination (UN Human Rights) has not been ratified by Malaysian government since 1960s.
    (42) 20 reported cases whereby Malay ambulance attendances treated Chinese patients inhumanely, and Malay government hospital staffs purposely delayed attending to Chinese patients in 2003. Unreported cases may be 200.
    (43) 20 cases every year whereby Chinese drivers who accidentally knocked down Malays were seriously assaulted or killed by Malays.
    There are hundreds more examples of racial discrimination in Malaysia that could be added to the above list. What makes me squirm is that Malaysia practises apartheid under the nose of the world community and gets away with it. Malaysian leaders have the chutzpah to suggest that Israel has an apartheid regime and yet they practise full-blooded racist apartheid in their own backyard!

    • straightline
      October 24, 2012, 1:43 am

      Why not instead compare with your home country Mayhem? Why choose Malaysia?

      This is hasbara 101. You could compare with other countries in the world that are racist, but Israel pretends that it is “the only democracy in the Middle East” and that it has western values. Interesting that you should choose Malaysia. In this case it is the descendants of the immigrants who are discriminated against not the native population. That’s not an excuse for Malaysia’s behaviour btw.

    • MRW
      October 24, 2012, 1:45 am

      mayhem,

      I’ve never read such poppycock about Malaysia in my life. Completely obvious you’ve never been there. I mean, the stuff is total bullshit. And you didn’t list the source of your red herrings.

      Malaysia is run by a five-year revolving sultanate, with each district taking turns. The population is Malay, Chinese, Indian, and left-over Brit. The religions are Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, and Christianity. Even their business meetings start off with prayers in the different religions. A Buddhist will recite a Methodist prayer, a Christian a Muslim one.

      The Chinese have major banks there, and Hong Banks are represented. At one time, they imposed Malay as the official language that had to be taught in schools, but after they saw themselves trailing the Chinese economy because Americans wouldn’t invest their companies there, they changed their tune.

      This litany is so over the top nuts, I can’t believe you had the gall to waste the inches. Kuala Lumpur is an international city where all ethnicities go where they want to. No different than NYC with its neighborhoods and communities. If there are Muslim tensions recently, then it is the USA and Israel’s anti-muslim campaign since 2001 that is to blame because they sure as hell didn’t have it after the Towers fell. The entire country was shell-shocked and incredulous that the USA had been hit.

      They do not practice apartheid–or you don’t know what it means–and there certainly isn’t full-blooded racist apartheid in their own backyard! You’re full of it.

      • seanmcbride
        October 24, 2012, 10:12 am

        MRW,

        Most pro-Israel propagandists and hasbarists make it much too easy, eh? Mayhem just landed another blow against his own cause. Thanks for taking the trouble to set the record straight about Malaysia.

        I would also point out that messianic and abusive ethno-religious nationalist Malaysians are not a conspicuous factor in American politics. The Malaysians I have met in the United States were all calm and friendly people — not ethnocentric fanatics who were making unreasonable and insistent demands on the resources and attention of Americans.

        Israeli apologetics for apartheid are often more appalling than the apartheid itself. They insult one’s intelligence.

    • seafoid
      October 24, 2012, 3:49 am

      Do ethnic Chinese have the vote in Malaysia, Mayhem? A simple answer will suffice.

      Gosh, the hasbara boiler room was busy last night, wasn’t it?

    • mig
      October 24, 2012, 4:10 am

      @Mayhem

      Reference to a Muslim country like Malaysia which practises truly blatant apartheid is useful.

      There are no complaining voices to be heard from the supposedly socially concerned, who focus so heavily on accusations of apartheid against Israel, overlooking countries like Malaysia where apartheid is openly enshrined and practised with impunity.

      Good job Mayhem! And when has Malaysia claimed to be western democratic society ?

      • piotr
        October 24, 2012, 9:54 am

        I guess they may claim to have a superior quality blend of British style democracy with local traditions (like absolute monarchy).

        Some items on the long list provided by Mayhem seem like normal policy: e.g. it is quite possible that there are very few new Chinese villages. Some seem exquisitely trivial: not sending non-Bumiputras for some visit in Japan. Over all, this is a list compiled 9 years ago and posted at faithfreedom.org

        This site post opinions about Islam without rigorous review, so to speak. For example, item about Iran “Ban Earthquake Genocide”. If they can unleash earthquakes, why do they need nukes? Actually, it is about non accepting some aid offers after an earthquake. As many such nonsensical antics, this is duly copied from US of A. where Mayor Guliani rejected help from some Saudi prince after 9/11. (The story is from 2004, when Guliani’s antics were fresh). Iranians sometimes copy, sometimes offer contrast: right after Abu Ghraib scandal Majlis passed a law criminalizing torture and outlawing its use. And were quite effusive in acknowledging Armenian Holocaust unlike SOME countries of which some are mere entities. Most recently, they copied sending drones and today, tada! a virus wiped out memories of most of ARAMCO computers, displaying burning a American flag (that touch was perhaps added to the code presumably developed in good old US of A).

        Maleysia definitely has some problems, but the list cannot be trusted.

    • thankgodimatheist
      October 24, 2012, 6:10 am

      Maybe you should, illico presto, alert Gideon Levy that he should divert his attention to Malaysia. BTW, obviously this is a prepared sheet. Hasbara central doesn’t waste any time, does it?

    • talknic
      October 24, 2012, 6:27 am

      Mayhem October 23, 2012 at 8:03 pm

      Nice list. Just steal it for your own agenda wagon? Cute.

      A) Does it somehow makes what is happening in Israel OK?
      B) Do Malaysians have their capitol in the territory of their neighbours and practice their apartheid there?
      C) One analysis of your stolen list link to takemon.wordpress.com

    • Shingo
      October 24, 2012, 8:04 am

      As usual no sense of perspective shown by those who wish to push their agenda wagon.

      Yawn,

      As usual, Mayhem offers nothign but completely irrelevant trivia which he tries to present and an argument.

      It is Mayhem’s argument is that lacks substance.

      The “there is apartheid in Israel” (58%) wasn’t a yes or no question, but one in which they were allowed to answer “in some ways” (39%) or “in most ways” (19%).

      That’s not what the articel says at all, so you clearly made that up.

      “In some ways” could mean anything

      No, in some ways means it exists in oine form of another. You’re simply resting your entire argument on the possibility that it is not entirely pervasive.

      As to “would support an apartheid regime”, that was NOT asked, but is being extrapolated from the other questions about apartheid-like measures which could be implemented if the West Bank was annexed.

      In other words,. Mayhem is draing a distinction without a difference and tryign to argue that it represents a major dicparity, which is doesn’t.

      This paragraph is revealing: “The survey conductors say perhaps the term “apartheid” was not clear enough to some interviewees.

      In other words, it was certianly clear to most. The fact that the interviewees did not object strongly to describing Israel’s character as “apartheid” already today suggests that it most certianly is. After all, given the stigma that goes with “apartheid”, the fact that the interviewees did not object strongly to it suggests that it clearly is “apartheid” and that all but a few are still trying to deny it. As the poll reveals, only 31 percent objected to calling Israel an “apartheid state.

      By the logic of this survey, any country with a substantial minority with affected rights is an “apartheid state

      That’s complete rubbish of course, because Israel stands alone as the only so called democracy that has institutionalized racism that is wrtten into it’s laws. While racism can be founf in all countries, only Israel has baltatntly racist laws.

      As we are all well aware, calling a state an “apartheid” state is a loaded, emotive allegation and one which needs to be used carefully for it to be meaningful and useful in any discussion.

      Which makes that fact that only 31% of Israelis object to this description all the more revealing. Of that 31%, most would probably concede that Israel is an apartheid state, but are yet to come to terms with admitting this openly.

      Reference to a Muslim country like Malaysia which practises truly blatant apartheid is useful.

      Only if you want to change the subject. Such a blatantly desperate effort on Mayhem’s part should stand as defacto acknowledgement in hsi mart that Israel is withotu doubt, an apartheid state.

    • Boston
      October 24, 2012, 8:10 am

      Mayhem.

      So the fact that other regimes behave badly excuses the apartheid practiced by Israel how?

      I am unaware of any other regime that gets so much financial and other backing from the US taxpayer. If you don’t see the difference between criticizing a government that is heavily dependent on US support and others that are outside of our circle then you are either a fool or a liar. FYI, I assume it is the latter

    • powzon
      October 24, 2012, 12:05 pm

      @Mayhem – Who cares what Malaysian leaders say? Care only about what is right. If “Malay” were replaced with “Israeli Jew” and “Chinese” with “Palestinian Arab”, this list would be even more useful.

  9. giladg
    October 23, 2012, 10:03 pm

    Go into any hospital in Israel Allison and you will see the real Israel. Arab doctor treating Jew, Jewish doctor treating Arab and Arab patient lying next to Jewish patient. Gideon Levy is always looking for dramatic headlines. He is a drama queen.

    • Eva Smagacz
      October 24, 2012, 3:18 am

      You mean the same health service that does not let black refugees to even enter common areas of health facilities and refuses to treat black skinned Jewish citizens of Israel?

    • seafoid
      October 24, 2012, 3:50 am

      Gilad

      What about the hospitals in Ariel, Maaleh Adumim and Gush Etzion ?
      Is this the real Israel too?

      • jon s
        October 24, 2012, 2:01 pm

        Eva, you really don’t know what you’re talking about. As an Israeli peacenik I’m very much concerned with prevalent racism here, but certainly not in the health care system. On that Giladg is right.
        Seafoid, what hospitals are you referring to?

      • Avi_G.
        October 25, 2012, 5:41 am

        jon s says:
        October 24, 2012 at 2:01 pm

        Eva, you really don’t know what you’re talking about. As an Israeli peacenik I’m very much concerned with prevalent racism here, but certainly not in the health care system. On that Giladg is right.
        Seafoid, what hospitals are you referring to?

        According to the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics (CBS) the number of doctors and nurses — Palestinian citizens of Israel — employed in the Israeli healthcare system is in the low 3% to 5% range, this despite said non-Jewish minority making up 20% of the general population AND despite the fact that many seek medical education outside Israel due to prevalent discrimination in the Israeli job market.

        Incidentally, according to a survey published two days ago — link to haaretz.com:

        82 percent support preferential treatment from the state toward Jews, and 95 percent are in favor of discrimination against Arabs in admission to workplaces.

        So in conclusion, I’m glad I’m not a “peacenick” like you.

      • seafoid
        October 25, 2012, 9:15 am

        Hospitals in the settlements. Are Palestinian patients allowed in to them and how many Palestinian doctors work in them?

    • mig
      October 24, 2012, 4:19 am

      @giladg

      Go into any hospital in Israel Allison and you will see the real Israel. Arab doctor treating Jew, Jewish doctor treating Arab and Arab patient lying next to Jewish patient.

      What a striking revelation gilad. Real Israel can be found in hospital. Forget those tourist traps, avoid historical sites and go to hospital to see the true Israel. I wonder if those hospitals can take a amount of visitors who come to see The Real Israel.

      Next slide please…

    • giladg
      October 24, 2012, 6:50 am

      Allison, I have a suggestion for you if you are still in the region. Why don’t you travel down to the Ashkelon Hospital? You will be able to experience how the real Israel looks by both being under missile attack from Gaza, today alone there have been over 50 rockets fired, and you will also be able to experience how Arabs and Jews really get along. Maybe you will get lucky and the Iron Dome will manage to shoot down rockets heading your way. But remember, it cannot offer 100% protection.

    • Woody Tanaka
      October 24, 2012, 8:39 am

      Baloney. The Palestinian citizens of israel were under martial law for no other reason than their ethnicity, in their own land, until a few years ago, and the Jewish minority holds the majority Palestinians in the land of Palestine under their boot of oppression or as second-class citizens. That is the real “israel.” It is a child or pregnant woman killed by neglect by Jewish guards at checkpoints for no reason other than because they’re not Jews.

    • Mooser
      October 24, 2012, 1:03 pm

      “Go into any hospital in Israel Allison and you will see the real Israel.”

      Gee, wierd place, this Israel. It’s great if you’re sick, but really lousy if you’re healthy?

  10. American
    October 23, 2012, 10:23 pm

    Sign this petition to support the Churches letter on Israel…….please

    link to salsa.democracyinaction.org

    then tweet it if you twitter and facebook it.

    End the Occupation [ http://www.endtheoccupation.org ]

    *Tuesday, October 23, 2012*

    Take Action: Support Church Leaders’ Call to Investigate Israel’s Violations of U.S. Law

    Earlier this month, *15 prominent church leaders* sent Members of Congress an *historic letter [ link to kairosusa.org ]* in which they decried “widespread Israeli human rights violations committed against Palestinians.”

    The church leaders wrote that “unconditional U.S. military assistance to Israel has contributed to this deterioration, sustaining the conflict and undermining the long-term security interests of both Israelis and Palestinians.”

    We fully support their call for “an immediate investigation into possible violations by Israel of the U.S. Foreign Assistance Act and the U.S. Arms Export Control Act” and for the “withholding of military aid for non-compliance” with these laws.

    This letter is huge*-our demand for accountability for Israel’s misuse of U.S. weapons is now going mainstream!

    *Whether or not you identify with one of the denominations whose leaders signed the letter, please take a moment right now to thank the church leaders for their important letter to Congress.* [ link to salsa.democracyinaction.org ]

    We are proud to launch this petition in coordination with many faith-based member groups of the US Campaign and our friends at Kairos USA. *Help us send a strong signal to these courageous church leaders that we support them in their efforts [ link to salsa.democracyinaction.org ]*.

    Also, please post this petition to your *Facebook [ link to facebook.com ]* page and *Tweet [ link to twitter.com ]* it!

    Pro-Israel organizations issued *harsh denunciations* against the church leaders who signed the letter and are trying to pressure them to rescind it by canceling an interfaith dialogue.

    We can’t let this “*interfaith bullying*” succeed in stifling conversation about holding Israel accountable for misusing U.S. weapons to commit human rights abuses of Palestinians. *Let’s show these church leaders that there are thousands of people from all backgrounds who support them! [ link to salsa.democracyinaction.org ]*

    Try as they might, however, to tamp down efforts to question the moral and financial implications of providing *$30 billion of taxpayer-funded weapons to Israel* from 2009 to 2018, pro-Israel organizations are losing the battle as activists are mounting successful public awareness campaigns to challenge U.S. complicity in Israel’s apartheid policies toward Palestinians.

    Despite months of efforts by local pro-Israel organizations in Chapel Hill, NC to cajole the city into censoring a year-long ad campaign paid for by the *Church of Reconciliation* as part of our national “*Be On Our Side-End U.S. Military Aid to Israel [ http://www.twopeoplesonefuture.org ]*” ad campaign, these ads are still running on 98 buses and generating a huge amount of conversation. Thanks to the *ACLU of North Carolina* for defending our right to freedom of speech in this *great letter [ link to blog.endtheoccupation.org ]* they sent the city council.

    Also, recently, *Louisville Students for Justice in Palestine* put up this eye-catching billboard in Louisville, KY calling for an end to U.S. aid to Israel.

    And, the *Palestine Education Network* placed these yard signs all over New Hampshire during the election season after being censored from advertising a similar message in the Manchester airport and in theater playbills.

    Pro-Israel organizations attempt to censor our message and engage in “interfaith bullying” because *we are right and the policies they advocate are wrong*. We cannot afford the moral and financial costs of arming Israel any longer.

    *Let us know [ mailto:[email protected]?subject=Military%20Aid%20Awareness%20Campaigns ]* if you’d like to replicate these types of public awareness campaigns and we’ll put you in touch with the organizers, and be sure to *sign up to receive an organizing packet [ link to aidtoisrael.org ]* in the mail filled with all the materials you’ll need to go out into your community to educate and organize people to end U.S. aid to Israel.

  11. piotr
    October 24, 2012, 2:28 am

    The policies of Malaysia are probably a good template to compare Israel with. It would be indeed interesting to compare discriminatory measures in, say, Lithuania, Israel and Malaysia and see where Israel is situated — more in Europe, or more like most discriminatory Asian country?

    For example, how many taxi drivers allowed to enter BGU are Palestinian? Can an Indian or Chinese citizen marry abroad and obtain permanent residency for his/her spouse? Any restriction on Christian Bible publishing or distribution in Israel? What are the restrictions on Chinese and Indians building houses in urban areas?

    Any Malaysian roads excluded from non-Muslim traffic? Any cases of non-Malays removed from buses after being spotted speaking a non-Malay language?

    Any incidents of Malays chopping or otherwise destroying trees that belong to non-Malays (either by private action or by the authorities).

    After a comprehensive study, respective nations could make decisions “we want to be more like Israel/Malaysia” or “less like”, which could improve political climate. Right now, the public in Israel wishes to have more discrimination, allow fewer NGOs (ban on foreign NGO bans failed in Knesset due to backroom pressure) etc. It seems to be that on the level of aspirations, Israel may be quite a bit worse than Malaysia. On the level of practice, it of course depend what you count practices of occupation under discrimination.

    PS. Do you we need any daylight between USA and Malaysia (an ally after all!)?

  12. Accentitude
    October 24, 2012, 4:23 am

    This doesn’t surprise me at all. But if they don’t want to live, eat, sleep, poo, play, (and not necessarily in that order) anywhere near Arabs maybe they want to consider…oh, I don’t know….leaving the West Bank where over 2million arabs currently live??

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