JVP: It is unseemly for Operation ‘Pillar of Defense’ to invoke biblical passage from Exodus when Israel is dominant military power in the region

ActivismIsrael/PalestineUS Politics
on 44 Comments

Jewish Voice for Peace released the following statement today:

As Israel launches operation “Pillar of Defense” in Gaza, Jewish
Voice for Peace (JVP) calls for an immediate cessation of the air
strikes and naval bombardment into Gaza and an end to the ongoing
siege of Gaza. JVP urges Israel not to exploit its asymmetric power to
exacerbate the instability in the region. We urge President Obama to
take a stand against these attacks and to use the power of the United
States to insist that Israel pursue all diplomatic measures possible
for the sake of life, safety and security on all sides. JVP opposes
all attacks on civilians, and urges the end of rocket attacks from
Gaza into civilian communities in Israel, which only serve to derail
efforts for a just resolution to the conflict.

This operation is named in reference to a biblical passage in which a
pillar of cloud protects the Israelites as they wandered in the desert
after leaving bondage in Egypt.

And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of cloud, to lead
them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light;
that they might go by day and by night. Exodus 13:21

It is unseemly to invoke the protection afforded the Israelites
wandering in the desert when Israel is the dominant military power in
the region. JVP rejects the possibility that such a military operation
and escalation of violence will be of any protection for Israelis or
Palestinians. As Israel continues to control Gaza by air, land and
sea, Israel holds responsibility for the well-being and safety of
Palestinian civilians in Gaza who will be traumatized, injured and
killed through this escalation of violence.

JVP calls on our chapters, members, and supporters to join us in
redoubling our efforts to advocate for an end to the U.S.’s
unconditional military aid to Israel and to intensify our calls for
divestment from all companies that profit from this escalation of
violence and Israel’s ongoing siege of Gaza.

44 Responses

  1. lobewyper
    November 14, 2012, 7:59 pm

    Many thanks, JVP!

  2. Abdul-Rahman
    November 15, 2012, 3:45 am

    This reminded me of a point Uri Avnery back in 2001; “World public opinion is always on the side of the underdog. In this fight, we are Goliath and they are David. In the eyes of the world, the Palestinians are fighting a war of liberation against a foreign occupation. We are in their territory, not they in ours. We settle on their land, not they on ours. We are the occupiers, they are the victims. This is the objective situation, and no minister of propaganda (like Mr. Nachman Shai) can change that.”

  3. seafoid
    November 15, 2012, 9:03 am

    Jewish voice for war :

    Rabbi Eric Joffie on why Israeli military nihilism is progressive

    link to haaretz.com

    ” And if progressive American Jews ask me why Israel can’t just muddle through, my answer is this: Israel came into being so that Jewish children would never again have to huddle together in fear, terrorized by enemies of the Jewish people, while their parents stood by helplessly. Helping those children is a progressive cause. And doing nothing for them undermines the sovereignty of the Jewish state and strikes a fatal blow at the very raison d’etre of Zionism. ”

    It would be hard to make this up.

  4. CitizenC
    November 15, 2012, 9:11 am

    This is a typical, anodyne, minimal, despicable stmt from JVP. It refers to “the Israelites wandering in the desert” as if they were a historical fact, while the Bible is used like Aryan myth was in Nazism. The rest of it is dutiful, minimal, bland and colorless. There is no anger, no passion, no conviction, only left Jewish cool. Anger and passion and conviction are reserved for the filthy gentiles, in JVP’s anti-anti-Semitism manifesto. Gentile victims of The Jewish People get only cool detachment.

    It is unseemly to invoke the protection afforded the Israelites
    wandering in the desert when Israel is the dominant military power in
    the region. JVP rejects the possibility that such a military operation
    and escalation of violence will be of any protection for Israelis or
    Palestinians. As Israel continues to control Gaza by air, land and
    sea, Israel holds responsibility for the well-being and safety of
    Palestinian civilians in Gaza who will be traumatized, injured and
    killed through this escalation of violence.

  5. seafoid
    November 15, 2012, 10:01 am

    Jewish voice for economics :

    link to judaicawebstore.com

    Dear Customer,

    Once again Israel finds herself in trying times. Whom do you stand with? If you’re with us, now is the time to show your support. One way you can do that is to support Israel’s economy by buying Israeli products (“Blue and White”). Don’t think of it as charity or a sacrifice, however; Israel produces some of the best and most affordable goods in the world. Take a look at our world famous Dead Sea cosmetics, our many varieties of Judaica, Israel souvenirs, t-shirts and much more.

    Support Israel! Buy Blue & White!

  6. CitizenC
    November 15, 2012, 1:34 pm

    Before Hostage flies in to defend JVP like the Sicarii at Masada, and denounce me like Lucas Flavius Silva, the Roman governor, let me describe an adequate statement.

    They should have condemned the assault on Gaza as the latest episode of Zionist criminality, product of a violent, racist ideology and society that are dragging the region to catastrophe. They should have rejected the whole idea of Zionism and The Jewish People in whose name these atrocities are committed. They should have damned the US organized Jews (Seafoid above) to perdition as the chief movers of US enabling of this catastrophe. And they should have, with equal force, extolled the great Jewish proponents of enlightenment, reform and revolution, from Spinoza onward, who stood for and with humanity, without for an instant agonizing over their “Jewish identity”.

    • CitizenC
      November 15, 2012, 2:13 pm

      People who do such things don’t organize as “Jews for This” and “Jews for That”. They just act.

      • tokyobk
        November 15, 2012, 2:52 pm

        Spinoza and most Jews from the general and Jewish Enlightenments agonized plenty over their identity.

        People organize the way they want to and around the myths and themes that are meaningful for them.

        Its never good enough for the purists, who themselves are organized around anti-tribalism.

      • Mooser
        November 15, 2012, 3:17 pm

        “Its never good enough for the purists, who themselves are organized around anti-tribalism.”

        Oh, I see, tokyobk, it’s the anti-tribalists who are the “purists”. Well, gosh, since “purity” has never, ever been even the most trivial concern of Judaism, we ought to get along with those ‘anti-tribalists’ just fine.

        Now, tokyobk, I can make up the most extravagant nonsense about Judaism, and feed it to unsuspecting Gentiles, but really, I wouldn’t try it here. Although, I appreciate the fungibility, we’re gonna need it. Of course, I’m always ready to read anything you might offer which shows that tribalism is not connected to concerns about “purity” in Judaism.

      • CitizenC
        November 15, 2012, 3:50 pm

        Spinoza accepted his excommunication without a murmur and never looked back. The rabbi asked him if he understood. He said he had been well-educated, and asked the rabbi if he should recite the decree to him. This took place in front of the congregation, which was shocked by such impudence. The exact reason is unclear, but the excommunication was unusually severe, permanent, and without possible redress after a period, as was customary. Rabbis in Amsterdam wrote to congregations elsewhere in Europe, warning them of Spinoza, against allowing him into their congregations.

        Spinoza and most Jews from the general and Jewish Enlightenments agonized plenty over their identity.

        People organize the way they want to and around the myths and themes that are meaningful for them.

        Its never good enough for the purists, who themselves are organized around anti-tribalism.

        Bombs falling on Gaza doesn’t stop the glib Jewish identity patter. How many gentiles have to die before the Jewish collective ego is broken? People can “identify” as they wish; it is the height of arrogance and racism to band together with other identitarians for purposes of restricting the critique, as JVP does, as exemplified in this latest stmt. Good grief.

      • Hostage
        November 16, 2012, 6:13 am

        Spinoza accepted his excommunication without a murmur and never looked back.

        You seem completely oblivious to the fact that Spinoza devoted considerable attention to the subject of the Jewish prophecies, Jewish history, and secular Jewish identity. After all, it was his positions on those subjects that got him excommunicated in the first place. Here’s an abstract of the contents of a recent book on that particular subject:

        Selected as second runner-up for the Book Award given by the North American Society for Social Philosophy

        Baruch de Spinoza (1632-1677)—often recognized as the first modern Jewish thinker—was also a founder of modern liberal political philosophy. This book is the first to connect systematically these two aspects of Spinoza’s legacy. Steven B. Smith shows that Spinoza was a politically engaged theorist who both advocated and embodied a new conception of the emancipated individual, a thinker who decisively influenced such diverse movements as the Enlightenment, liberalism, and political Zionism.

        Focusing on Spinoza’s Theologico-Political Treatise, Smith argues that Spinoza was the first thinker of note to make the civil status of Jews and Judaism (what later became known as the Jewish Question) an essential ingredient of modern political thought. Before Marx or Freud, Smith notes, Spinoza recast Judaism to include the liberal values of autonomy and emancipation from tradition. Smith examines the circumstances of Spinoza’s excommunication from the Jewish community of Amsterdam, his skeptical assault on the authority of Scripture, his transformation of Mosaic prophecy into a progressive philosophy of history, his use of the language of natural right and the social contract to defend democratic political institutions, and his comprehensive comparison of the ancient Hebrew commonwealth and the modern commercial republic. According to Smith, Spinoza’s Treatise represents a classic defense of religious toleration and intellectual freedom, showing them to be necessary foundations for political stability and liberal regimes. In this study Smith examines Spinoza’s solution to the Jewish Question and asks whether a Judaism, so conceived, can long survive.

        Steven B. Smith is professor of political science and Master of Branford College at Yale University.

      • Mooser
        November 16, 2012, 11:42 am

        “How many gentiles have to die before the Jewish collective ego is broken?”

        “The Jewish collective ego”? Say what? You mean you have finally found it, the thread that connects all Jews in perpetual perfidy, it’s a “collective ego”!

        Wow, when your paper comes out in the New England Journal of Medicine, with (mit cranial dissection pictures, or is the ego, as the ancients believed, located in the kishkas?) showing the location, extent, and powers of the “Jewish collective ego”, well all I can say is, I know Hostage will be big enough to apologise. You won’t make him grovel too much, will you, CitizenC?

      • Hostage
        November 16, 2012, 6:54 am

        People who do such things don’t organize as “Jews for This” and “Jews for That”. They just act.

        That’s an unsupportable claim and a logical non-sequitur. Many groups have in fact organized as “Jews for This” and “Jews for That”. They usually do take actions to achieve their stated aims – in this case “Peace” – through an end to Israeli or Zionist attacks, sanctioning military aid, divestment from companies that support the siege against Gaza, and cooperation with other like-minded Christian, Muslim, and Secular groups in the Palestinian Solidarity movement.

        You’ve made a bunch of bogus comments here in the past condemning JVP or the US Campaign to End the Occupation, while pretending that your views are shared by others, like David Landey, Miko Peled, Esther Kaplan, or Rabbi Elmer Berger. In fact, Landey has noted that JVP spends little or no time on questions of Jewish identity and has praised its valuable contributions to the Palestinian solidarity movement. Peled has accepted the sponsorship of JVP for his US book tour speaking engagements – just as Landey accepted sponsorship for his book from “Jews Sans Frontiers”.

        I’ve pointed out in the past that individuals do not have to be Jewish to be members of JVP. Anyone who is inspired by the Jewish tradition of universalism espoused by the either the ancient prophets or Spinoza can join and work together for peace. Our mission statement explains the fact that JVP supports peace activists in Palestine and Israel, and works in broad coalition with other Jewish, Arab-American, faith-based, peace and social justice organizations. In short, your attempts to portray JVP as some sort of separatist movement are utter nonsense.

      • Elliot
        November 16, 2012, 7:22 am

        Thank you, Hostage. That nails it.
        …agonizing over their “Jewish identity”
        JVP is for people who freely associate as Jews to reclaim their Jewish identity from the unelected spokespeople such as Eric Yoffie and the government of the State of Israel.
        People who do such things don’t organize as “Jews for This” and “Jews for That”. They just act.
        JVP itself disproves that on the positive side and this can’t be proved on the negative side.

      • Mooser
        November 16, 2012, 11:46 am

        “JVP is for people who freely associate as Jews to reclaim their Jewish identity from the unelected spokespeople such as Eric Yoffie and the government of the State of Israel.”

        Whew, Eliot, for a minute there (I’m a slow reader) I thought you were going to say “people who freely associate as Jews to reclaim their Jewish identity from” Zionism. Thank God you pulled back in time. Those lightening strikes are sooo messy when they hit point-blank.

      • Mooser
        November 16, 2012, 12:00 pm

        And BTW Eliot, Eric Yoffie may not be elected, but if I am not mistaken, he is most certainly appointed, and receives a salary from the State, or the Army. Or something, but he is no way there on his own.

      • Hostage
        November 16, 2012, 12:40 pm

        And BTW Eliot, Eric Yoffie may not be elected, but if I am not mistaken, he is most certainly appointed, and receives a salary from the State, or the Army. Or something, but he is no way there on his own.

        He is the past president of the Union for Reform Judaism in the United States. Like any other Reform Rabbi, he’s almost irrelevant in the greater scheme of things in Israel. The NY Times reported that the State recently agreed to pay the salaries of Reform Rabbis through the Ministry of Culture and Sport, based upon the strict understanding that they will have no say whatever over matters of religion and Jewish law. link to nytimes.com

        This, of course, raises the question of what exactly these Rabbis are being paid to do instead? I’ll go out on a limb and speculate that they aren’t being granted any authority over sports or culture either and that this is just hush money to make the lawsuit go away.

      • Elliot
        November 16, 2012, 12:54 pm

        As Hostage points out, Eric Yoffie was the head of the American Jewish Reform movement.
        He was appointed. It’s hard enough having an open conversation about the issues when there is a democratic election (as evidenced in the presidential elections). It’s impossible to do so when the influence of money is protected by secrecy and appointments, thus silencing any dissenting voice. If organized American Jewish life were a democracy and not a closed club, we would hear other voices, such as JVP, and Eric Yoffie would not be able to speak with such certainty about “progressive values” = killing Gazans.

      • Mooser
        November 16, 2012, 3:19 pm

        “He is the past president of the Union for Reform Judaism in the United States.”

        I’m sorry Hostage, I had him completely mixed up with an IDF Rabbi.
        But, as I’ve often admitted, that is one of my failings. All Zionists look pretty much alike to me.

      • thetumta
        November 17, 2012, 4:40 pm

        All ethnics look pretty much alike to me as well. Great food and music choices, anything else, not so much. But oh well, I’m an American and I’m not sorry.
        Hej!

    • Hostage
      November 16, 2012, 5:56 am

      Before Hostage flies in to defend JVP like the Sicarii at Masada, and denounce me like Lucas Flavius Silva, the Roman governor, let me describe an adequate statement.

      CitizenC, you’re obviously trolling the comment section to distract attention away from the subject of Gaza and divert the conversation away into a discussion about your pet peeves.

      Obama got 70+ percent of the liberal or leftist Jewish vote. The obvious “minimalist” position would have been for JVP to simply endorse the President’s statements on Gaza which “reiterated U.S. support for Israel’s right to self-defense from rocket attacks being launched against its civilians” and “urging Israel to make every effort to avoid civilian casualties” in its responses. Unlike other Jewish groups, JVP did NOT choose to do that.

      JVP put out the policy statement above and within 24 hours members helped stage a number of demonstrations across the US in cooperation with other Palestinian Solidarity groups. Our major media talking points were:
      *Ceasefire Now
      *This is not about Israel’s self-defense
      *Condition US aid on compliance with law
      link to salsa.democracyinaction.org

      We urged President Obama to “take a stand against these attacks” and we intensified our existing calls for “divestment from all companies that profit from this escalation of violence and Israel’s ongoing siege of Gaza”. Nothing in the JVP statement or its actions have been “despicable” as you claimed in your obnoxious comment above.

      Everyone here knows that Israel has adopted legislation which makes any call for boycott, divestment, or sanctions a civil offense in addition to providing for statutory damages in favor of the targeted companies. So your observation that the JVP statement on that subject is “anodyne” should be viewed as uninformed or deliberately misleading. Israel and the Jewish community view calls for sanctions on military assistance or divestment with a great deal of alarm.

    • Hostage
      November 16, 2012, 10:14 am

      They should have condemned the assault on Gaza as the latest episode of Zionist criminality, product of a violent, racist ideology and society that are dragging the region to catastrophe.

      Noam Chomsky has said all of those things in a brilliant article, but you nonetheless have ignorantly condemned them in no uncertain terms as part of his life-long plea bargain for Zionism. See:
      *”Impressions of Gaza” link to chomsky.info
      * link to mondoweiss.net

      This isn’t about condemning Israel, because Chomsky has done a much better job of that in his article than your lackluster attempts here.

      • Mooser
        November 16, 2012, 11:29 am

        Hostage, even when it seems to be wearing a bit thin, you have an extraordinary amount of patience. Thanks.

  7. CitizenC
    November 16, 2012, 7:16 am

    I have Smith’s book among others on Spinoza. He was concerned to modernize Jews and Judaism and their status. Marx was also in his way. Spinoza left “the community” without a second thought and his prescriptions were all made apart from and outside it.

    You and JVP are concerned to de-modernize Jews with your infinite casuistry and infinite arrogance, even as Gaza endures another slaughter. As any child can see by comparison to my proposed stmt below, JVP’s stmt is contemptible, like your brazen apologetics.

    JVP calls on our chapters, members, and supporters to join us in
    redoubling our efforts to advocate for an end to the U.S.’s
    unconditional military aid to Israel and to intensify our calls for
    divestment from all companies that profit from this escalation of
    violence and Israel’s ongoing siege of Gaza.

    Divesting from from “companies profiting”, how contemptible, covering up for the real force at work, Zionism, here and there. You are the real troll here, a monster of duplicity and cynicism.

    They should have condemned the assault on Gaza as the latest episode of Zionist criminality, product of a violent, racist ideology and society that are dragging the region to catastrophe. They should have rejected the whole idea of Zionism and The Jewish People in whose name these atrocities are committed. They should have damned the US organized Jews (Seafoid above) to perdition as the chief movers of US enabling of this catastrophe. And they should have, with equal force, extolled the great Jewish proponents of enlightenment, reform and revolution, from Spinoza onward, who stood for and with humanity, without for an instant agonizing over their “Jewish identity”.

    • Hostage
      November 16, 2012, 10:02 am

      I have Smith’s book among others on Spinoza. He was concerned to modernize Jews and Judaism and their status.

      Well he certainly did not adopt your approach of demonizing people who advocate moral behavior toward others or try to establish “Jewishness” as a taboo social marker.

      • Mooser
        November 16, 2012, 11:57 am

        try to establish “Jewishness” as a taboo social marker.”

        That might be a good idea, actually. At least I would have an excuse why I’m home every Saturday night.

    • Hostage
      November 16, 2012, 10:54 am

      You and JVP are concerned to de-modernize Jews with your infinite casuistry and infinite arrogance, even as Gaza endures another slaughter. As any child can see by comparison to my proposed stmt below, JVP’s stmt is contemptible, like your brazen apologetics

      My comment archives here outline the fact that Israeli officials are guilty of the crime of apartheid, public incitement to commit genocide, the crime of persecution, illegal population transfers (in the form of deportations and colonization), torture, and a litany of other war crimes and crimes against humanity. If I decided to engage in similar “apologetics” on your behalf, I doubt that you could take the pace.

    • Mooser
      November 16, 2012, 11:31 am

      “Divesting from from “companies profiting”, how contemptible, covering up for the real force at work, Zionism, here and there.”

      CitizenC, if you want to drive a tank into Tel Aviv, none of us will stand in your way.
      And besides, I see absolutely no profit or progress in excoriating (that’s the right word, isn’t it, Hostage? Mr. C is an excoriator if I ever saw one!) people, like JVP, who are doing the best they can, and as Hostage points out, willing to risk civil disobedience.

    • Mooser
      November 16, 2012, 11:51 am

      “They should have….”

      Gosh, Citizen C, you have powerful ideas, and forceful rhetoric, and fects, fects! to back it up! You know what’s wrong with JVP? That you aren’t its President, leading in a better, more radical direction!
      You better get started, it’s a long way from an ordinary JVP membership to the Presidency of the organisation.

    • Keith
      November 16, 2012, 2:08 pm

      CITIZENC- “They should have damned the US organized Jews (Seafoid above) to perdition as the chief movers of US enabling of this catastrophe.”

      Pray tell, who are the chief movers and enablers of the US empire which you damn to perdition? One of the things which I have noticed about Chomsky bashers is that they generally are empire apologists. In view of all of the evil and destructive acts of the empire which have occurred and are still going on (Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Viet Nam, etc), I find your excruciatingly narrow focus on Palestine disingenuous, particularly since Israel is doing these things with the full support of empire. Of course, what is occurring needs to be condemned and opposed, however, this should not occur in a vacuum. Anyone who ‘damns to perdition’ organized American Jewry, needs to equally critical of the crimes of empire for which they are at least somewhat accountable. And any imperial apologist who focuses exclusively on Israel and organized Jews is doubly complicit in imperial wrongdoing. Methinks I detect a foul odor in some of your comments.

      • Dan Crowther
        November 16, 2012, 3:40 pm

        “And any imperial apologist who focuses exclusively on Israel and organized Jews is doubly complicit in imperial wrongdoing. Methinks I detect a foul odor in some of your comments.”

        Yea mon.

      • Mooser
        November 17, 2012, 1:37 pm

        “Methinks I detect a foul odor in some of your comments.”

        It seems to me that the ability to discuss this issue without descending into ethnic stereotypes and pejorative ethnic tropes requires a very sophisticated form of discourse, which not everybody can, or wants to develop.

        Israel is bombing innocent people. People will curse the Jews. Not my job to stop them for Israel’s sake.
        So Israel takes care of the front, and we man the rear, making sure nobody talks bad about the Jews? Screw that, I don’t work for Zionism. If they are cursing the Jews, let the Zionists, the Israelis, tell them why they shouldn’t. It’s not my job.

  8. piotr
    November 16, 2012, 12:05 pm

    My first impression was that JVP is nitpicking. Why bother with a religion if the Almighty is not with you at the time of war? It is precisely during a war when religion is invoked most regularly (there are also elections, but in some sense, elections are a form of civil war, struggle for power, that acquired civilized rules).

    Nevertheless there is something disturbing in that name. Would it be “Sampson’s Donkey Jawbone” I would not have problem with it. Bit the Pillar of Clouds is a form that was taken by Almighty Himself. Thus IDF casts itself not in the role of a hero, which is proper, but in the role of Divine Protector, which is a dangerous kind of vanity. Hinduism allows God to have a human avatar, but I think it is a totally un-Jewish idea and I am amazed that IDF military rabbinate let it pass.

    • Elliot
      November 16, 2012, 1:03 pm

      I am amazed that IDF military rabbinate let it pass
      If the Israeli military rabbinate (mostly, settlers in uniform) had its way, they would take the Torah scrolls out of the synagogue and have them lead the column of tanks right into Gaza City. Plenty of biblical precedents for that. The Ark led the Israelites into war in the wilderness under Moses and led the people into the Land under Joshua.

      • Mooser
        November 17, 2012, 1:43 pm

        “I am amazed that IDF military rabbinate let it pass…”

        Amazing, absolutely amazing. Yes, I’m sure the IDF military rabbinate challenges or defies the IDF on religious, moral and ethical Jewish-value stuff all the time! And twice on Sunday to make up for Shabbos.

        Sometimes, for as much as a fraction of a second, I wonder if Gilad Atzmon might be right about something. Then it passes, of course.

  9. eljay
    November 16, 2012, 12:11 pm

    Israel should have called its operation “Pilaf of Defense against Hummùs”. A delicious offensive…offensively delicious.

    • piotr
      November 16, 2012, 7:41 pm

      Hummus warfare is a rather recent phenomenon. Until recently, I find no records of authorities paying particular attention to the type of food some population may receive. Either the goal was starvation, or indifference. IDF invented diet as a method, going into minutiae like allowing canned fish but not fresh or vice versa, banning dried fruits, hummus, pasta and so on. In the aftermath of Mavi Marmara incident IDF astounded me by rescinding the ban of hummus for Gaza “except flavored varieties”.

  10. seafoid
    November 16, 2012, 2:31 pm

    How can anyone with a conscience go to synagogue and listent to Yoffie moralising about goodness when he provides cover for the IDF ‘s nihilism in Gaza? And he’s Reform. I thought they were supposed to be the most modern.

    God only knows what they are saying in shul in Yitzhar.

  11. RudyM
    November 16, 2012, 11:16 pm

    These damned religions. You can liberalize the interpretation of genocidal scripture all you want, but it’s just there waiting to be reignited. Liberalizing religion just keeps the extremist core alive waiting to be reborn at a later time.

  12. CitizenC
    November 17, 2012, 9:58 am

    Censored again. Jewish chauvinism is de rigeur at Mondo, criticism not.

    • Mooser
      November 17, 2012, 1:19 pm

      “Censored again. Jewish chauvinism is de rigeur at Mondo, criticism not.”

      Considering the heavy amount of data-transmission into Mondo at this time, your comment was probably dropped by the system. There has got to be a hierarchy in data transmission, or the intertubes get clogged.
      It happens to me all the time.

  13. Keith
    November 17, 2012, 12:47 pm

    CITIZENC- “Censored again. Jewish chauvinism is de rigeur at Mondo, criticism not.”

    Perhaps if you moderated your vocabulary you could express yourself in a less offensive fashion. Surely, a smart guy like you can think of a way to rephrase criticism into an acceptable comment. As it is, there seems to me to be an imbalance between rancor and substance.

    • Mooser
      November 17, 2012, 1:22 pm

      Keith, there’s a lot in what you say here, but given the current events, is this really the time to worry about immoderate vocabularies? Why is CitizenC not entitled to the same rancor you feel over Zionist actions? You pitch it pretty strong, Keith, why can’t he?

  14. YoungMassJew
    November 17, 2012, 6:56 pm

    I really didn’t want to get involved in this discussion. But CitizenC, I think Anna Baltzer has it right when she states basically that she supports the “Jewish homeland” concept, which means that Israel is always open to Jews, but NOT EXCLUSIVE to them. That’s not racist, by the way. I don’t know if this concept she talks about in her book is just a watered down version of Zionism, but if you ask me this concept of “Jewish homeland” she talks about is not racism or whatever loaded terms you want to use to describe JVP’s position.

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