Kristol says Obama appeases the new Hitler, Rouhani, making Israel ‘the leader of the west’

Israel/Palestine
on 160 Comments

As we reported this weekend, Israel and its supporters are flipping out over the apparent thaw between the United States and Iran, precipitated by Obama’s climbdown on Syria. Here is an angry piece by Bill Kristol at the Weekly Standard, calling Obama an appeaser, Rouhani Hitler, Assad Mussolini, and saying that only Israel can lead. It seems the piece is written in desperation: Kristol marshaling what forces he still has at his disposal to head off any understanding between the US and Iran.

There is so much hysteria here that I need to quote a lot of Kristol’s argument to give full measure to his world view. How many Americans share this understanding? Notice Kristol’s extended and repeated Hitler analogies, the characterization of Obama as an appeaser who will leave the U.S. to be eaten by locusts, the overblown tone employing Shakespeare and Churchill references, and the heroic description of Israel as “for now the leader of the West” because it will act against Iran.

Act Two opens at the United Nations. There, we’ll see a charm offensive worthy of Richard III by the new Iranian president and veteran deceiver of the West, Hassan Rouhani. In response, the Obama administration will move on from punting in Syria to appeasing Iran….

Smaller retreats lead to larger ones. The West’s failure to resist Mussolini’s invasion of Ethiopia in 1935—and his troops’ use of poison gas—was merely a foretaste of the failure to resist Hitler when he took the Rhineland in March 1936. In his essay in the volume Present Dangers, the historian Donald Kagan tells the story. Hitler had expected Britain to slap down Mussolini…. Hitler drew the lesson. The occupation of the Rhineland followed shortly.

There will be no Rhineland this time. Iran isn’t 1930s Germany, and the United States is more formidable than Britain. For now, Iran will have to achieve its goals by stealth and diplomacy, while Hitler achieved his by bravado and force. But the accommodation of the Islamic Republic of Iran’s quest for nuclear weapons lies ahead as surely as the accommodation of Nazi Germany’s expansionist dreams. Moreover, Rouhani knows what he is doing. He was Iran’s top nuclear negotiator for two critical years a decade ago and proved then his skill at duplicity in the furtherance of his regime’s nuclear ambitions.

And the Obama administration, too, will play its role, echoing the Baldwin government, which Winston Churchill in 1936 characterized as “decided only to be undecided, resolved to be irresolute, adamant for drift, solid for fluidity, all-powerful to be impotent.” Churchill continued, “So we go on preparing more months and years—precious, perhaps vital to the greatness of Britain—for the locusts to eat.”

As Iran moves closer to nuclear weapons, undeterred by the West’s leading power, a 21st-century tragedy threatens to unfold. Unless. Unless a dramatis persona who didn’t exist in 1936 intervenes: Israel. Ariel Sharon once famously said that Israel would not play the role of Czechoslovakia in the 1930s. Nor will it play the role of Poland. Despite imprecations from the Obama administration, Israel will act. One prays it will not be too late.

It is a strange course of events, heavy with historical irony, that has made the prime minister of Israel for now the leader of the West.

Once again this demonstrates the significance of MJ Rosenberg holding the line on the use of the term Israel Firster. Kristol is surely an Israel Firster. But only when people are allowed to talk about this allegiance freely will there actually be a public understanding: that not all Jews are Zionist, that Zionism calls on tribal and paranoid elements inside the Jewish community, and it has helped to build a militarist and discriminatory regime that is more and more isolated from positive world opinion.

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

Other posts by .


Posted In:

160 Responses

  1. seafoid
    September 23, 2013, 3:04 pm

    Israel isn’t even part of the west ffs. It is just another tinpot middle eastern statelet run by a nutjob military junta.

    • Krauss
      September 23, 2013, 3:22 pm

      I think Israel does want to see itself as part of the West. After all, what does it have in common culturally with, say, India, Russia or China? Some minorities in Israel are closer to Russia for ethnic reasons. Most Israelis have Arab origin of some kind, and the biggest plurality is Mizrahi, not Ashkenazi among Jews.
      But they have been hard at work trying to eliminate that cultural heritage. What you get is somekind of Americanized Middle Eastern’ish Judaism.

      However, if you look at what foreign movies and songs and TV shows are popular, it’s pure ‘Merica. That isn’t necessarily the case in places like Japan or Korea where foreign shows are often from other Asian countries, for example.

      • seafoid
        September 23, 2013, 3:55 pm

        Krauss

        Between the Russians and the Mizrahim and the Haredim, Israel is not Western. Oleg with his Chechnya framing of the Palestine issue would be a good example.

        Sure there are the Ashkenazim but that villa is more and more influenced by the surrounding jungle.

      • piotr
        September 23, 2013, 4:55 pm

        I feel slightly offended. Why is an Ashkenazi from Odessa (30-44 E) deemed more “Western” than a Mizrahi from Casablanca (7-30 W)? Because the former befriended Mussolini while the latter attended a French school?

        I have some Ashkenazi ancestors and they were not Eastern or Western but from CENTRAL Europe (i.e. between Rhine and Dnieper). I bet that Kristol himself descends from Centralians, but now he is ashamed of that and styles himself as “Western”.

      • OlegR
        September 23, 2013, 7:07 pm

        / Oleg with his Chechnya framing of the Palestine issue would be a good example./
        Be a dear and do tell when was i Chechnia framing the Palestine issue.
        Or are you imagining things again ?

      • Krauss
        September 23, 2013, 10:49 pm

        Between the Russians and the Mizrahim and the Haredim, Israel is not Western. Oleg with his Chechnya framing of the Palestine issue would be a good example.

        Sure there are the Ashkenazim but that villa is more and more influenced by the surrounding jungle.

        The ruling class in Israel is the secular Ashkenazi class. They are no longer as isolated as they were, say, 20-30 years ago, and today you have more secular mizrahim than you had before.

        My point is that it’s what the ruling class views itself that defines how the country defines itself, since the ruling class – in the broad sense of controlling not just politics but media, culture, academia and so on – has much more say than in these matters than poorer Haredim or Arabs, for example.

        I mean Israel has its own Jewish, independent culture, which is particularly influenced by Mizrahi Jews. But the secular ruling class, the educated class, is also heavily influenced by Western culture and wants to be seen as part of the democratic West. We know that that isn’t the case, but how you want to be viewed in context of your neighbours matter, it says a lot about the country’s elite.

      • bilal a
        September 24, 2013, 5:43 am

        [Irving] Kristol was born in New York’s Brooklyn neighborhood, the son of Jewish immigrants from Ukraine.
        link to google.com

        He was a staff sergeant in the US Army during WW2 recalling:

        My fellow soldiers were too easily inclined to loot, to rape, and to shoot prisoners of war. Only army vigilance kept them in check.” He felt sympathy for the civilian population of the enemy nation: “observing German women and young girls, living among the rubble and selling their bodies for a few packs of cigarettes … rid me of any anti-German feeling which, as a Jew, might otherwise have been present in me.”

        link to theamericanconservative.com

      • ziusudra
        September 24, 2013, 7:41 am

        Greetings Piotr,
        …. I have some Ashkenazi ancestors………
        Please.
        Why doesn’t World Jewry get it straight.
        Clear up the confusion.
        Only the descendents of the freed Judeans went to Europe starting in 200BC. They called themselves Sephardi.
        Only after they started leaving Greece & Rome did they migrate to Germany,
        Poland, Russia.
        Only in Germany did the Sephardi call their Schools of Learning, Ashkenaz.
        The Germans not understanding called them Ashkenazi.
        They were not Ashkenaz in Poland or Russia.
        ziusudra
        PS After the 2 mass migrations of the converted Khazarians occuring in the 12th & 15thCs, did the Khazarians & the Sephardi miscegenize, also many of them going to the ME & No. Africa & miscegenizing with the Mizrahi & Magreb who ne’er left.
        Before that time Mizrahi & Magreb went to Europe to get Brides or Grooms.
        World Jewry is Khazarian, 70% & European 30% DNA
        Sephard & Ashkenasz were both Biblical figures.

      • seafoid
        September 24, 2013, 11:06 am

        It isn’t part of the democratic west.
        Israel runs the territories like Russia runs Chechnya.
        There is no apartheid anywhere in the West.
        I think that is more important than whether or not people in Tel Aviv know who Nicki Minaj is.

      • hophmi
        September 24, 2013, 11:31 am

        “It isn’t part of the democratic west.”

        Well, no. It’s in the Middle East in a bad neighborhood, not in Pax Americana/Europe. So it is not part of the “West”. But its parliamentary values are. It has a duly elected parliament, civilian rule, a stable electoral system, civil liberties that go beyond those of some European countries, and so on.

        “Israel runs the territories like Russia runs Chechnya.”

        It’s not remotely similar. In the last Chechen war, according to Amnesty, the Russians killed around 25,000 civilians, and another 5,000 went missing. In the two Chechen wars combined, civilian casualties range from 150,000 to 200,000 people.

        “There is no apartheid anywhere in the West.”

        There isn’t any in Israel either. It’s a occupation, and it demands a two-state solution, the most just outcome for both peoples.

      • Hostage
        September 24, 2013, 5:56 pm

        It has a duly elected parliament

        After driving the majority of its Arab population into exile and permanently denationalizing them, you can’t really say that any Knesset has ever been duly elected. See Prof. Yehuda Blum’s testimony to the U.S. Senate on the point:
        link to loc.gov

    • Mike_Konrad
      September 23, 2013, 4:21 pm

      Israel is right on this.

      Iran is a menace not only to Israel, but to the West.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 23, 2013, 4:56 pm

        “Israel is right on this.”

        No, it’s not. It’s sabre rattling because it doesn’t want anyone interfering with its ability to oppress Palestinians.

        “Iran is a menace not only to Israel, but to the West.”

        Oh, baloney. Iran is pursuing its interests and is faced with a psychopath – israel – to its West as well as that psycopath’s puppet – the US.

      • just
        September 23, 2013, 5:02 pm

        You are wrong, MK. Israel, as it currently exists as a warmongering and belligerent state, is the menace.

        When was the last time that Iran launched a war or attack? Can you recall the last time that Israel did so?

        End of story.

        (oh, and by the way, Billy the Kid Kristol wrote this trash, not Israel)

      • seafoid
        September 24, 2013, 12:01 pm

        Dead right, Just

        Israel is a warmonger and puts warmongering above the welfare of its own people.

      • eljay
        September 23, 2013, 5:11 pm

        >> Iran is a menace not only to Israel, but to the West.

        Israel – the belligerent, colonialist, expansionist and nuclear-armed supremacist state – is the menace. The rest is Zio-supremacist fear-mongering and anti-Persian propaganda.

      • miriam6
        September 23, 2013, 5:14 pm

        Mike_Konrad@:

        Iran is a menace not only to Israel, but to the West.

        Not so much now that they have Rouhani ( although to what extent he may or not be a puppet of harder line forces remains a grey area.)

        The Iranians have moved on from the days of the poisoned, anti- Semitic dwarf whateverhisnamewas. and that needs to be recognised and supported by the outside world.

        I think the Iranians need to develop nuclear power like other nations have the right to do so.

        With diminishing fossil fuels more countries are looking at nuclear power as an alternative.

        The French have safely used it for years.

      • Shingo
        September 24, 2013, 2:21 am

        The Iranians have moved on from the days of the poisoned, anti- Semitic dwarf whateverhisnamewas. and that needs to be recognised and supported by the outside world.

        They haven’t moved anywhere. They were never developing nukes, and all intelligence in Israel and the agreed.

        BTW Miriam.

        During the Roman Iudaea period there was an entity known as Palestine.

        The name Palestine preceded the Roman conquest

        You claimed there is no place called Palestine on this map, yet anyone who isn’t blind can read the names Palestina and Judea.

        link to en.wikipedia.org

        YOU are wrong as the 125AD clearly shows a Judea on the map which was later erased by Hadrian after the Baer Kochba revolt.

        Irrelevant. My argument was that the name Palestine goes back to the 5th century BCE remains correct and undisputed by your pathetic efforts.

        Here is a map of Palestine from 1020 B.C.

        http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/biblicalmaps/ig/Biblical-History-Maps/1020-B-C–Palestine-Map.htm

        So I am right.

      • Theo
        September 24, 2013, 9:23 am

        “dwarf whateverhisnamewas”

        I never had much sympathy for that dwarf, however even much less for the other dwarfs called ben Gurion, Shamir, Begin, etc.
        We should not forget that Iran did not attack an other country since several centuries, Israel was born in a bloodbath, (remember the Nakba), and since it systematically enlarges its geography with wars, or just bombs other nations, four times Syria just this year!
        You are neo-colonists and should never blame another nation for aggression or genocide.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 24, 2013, 11:33 am

        “dwarf whateverhisnamewas”

        Wow, miriam, you are quite the bigot.

      • eljay
        September 24, 2013, 12:12 pm

        >> Here is a map of Palestine from 1020 B.C.

        Wow, there are lots of different names on that map! Looks like it’s time to carve up Israel and return to the rightful owners their long-lost “homelands”!

      • miriam6
        September 24, 2013, 1:02 pm

        Shingo@;

        Iran has clearly moved on from the period of the poisoned dwarf. If that is not the case then why would Rouhani actually be on record as criticising him ( the dwarf) and therefore distancing himself from his controversial predecessor?

        Hassan Fereydoon Rouhani, 64, was elected president of Iran in June 2013 – the only cleric to contest the poll. His campaign slogan “moderation and wisdom” continued to be a theme as he was inaugurated in August.
        Indeed, Mr Rouhani has been openly critical of the outgoing president, saying Mr Ahmadinejad’s “careless, uncalculated and unstudied remarks” have cost the country dearly.

        link to bbc.co.uk

        As regards your maps

        Your first link was a useless dud your second reveals this.

        http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/biblicalmaps/ig/Biblical-History-Maps/1020-B-C–Palestine-Map.htm

        On your map of 1020 BC I see Judah is visible, also Canaanites, Philistines and Gilead to the south.
        No such place as Palestine is actually present on the map.
        So no entity named Palestine was actually present there in 1020BC as actually as marked on the map.

        What is more;


        Saul was later elected their King and consequently a Jewish Kingdom was established around the year 1020 BC.kingdom

        link to webgaza.net

        Anti hasbara fail!

      • miriam6
        September 24, 2013, 2:22 pm

        Poor Woody

        You cannot win the argument by fair means and instead resort to calling me a bigot an accusation I reject.

        I merely drew attention to his diminutive stature and HIS BIGOTRY in calling the Holocaust a myth which makes him a proven anti – Semite.

        Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has courted further controversy by explicitly calling the Nazi Holocaust of European Jewry a “myth”.

        link to news.bbc.co.uk

        Also on the Mondoweiss site it says:

        NO Nakba or Holocaust Denial.

        So therefore if Ahmadinejad had posted a comment claiming the Holocaust was a myth he would have his comment deleted.

      • amigo
        September 24, 2013, 3:39 pm

        “The Iranians have moved on from the days of the poisoned, anti- Semitic dwarf whateverhisnamewas. and that needs to be recognised and supported by the outside world.”

        And the next time this poll is taken your beloved occupation nation will “occupy ” the number 1 position as the most hated and least trusted entity on earth.

        link to totallyjewish.com

        Btw, you have still not answered my questions.

        1 Do you approve of Jewish Terrorists murdering your fellow Brits.

        2 Should the Brits have bombed the concentration camps.

      • Shingo
        September 25, 2013, 2:25 am

        You cannot win the argument by fair means and instead resort to calling me a bigot an accusation I reject.

        Sorry but rejecting an accusation is pretty meaningless. If rejection is so absolute, we’ll reject your rejection, which makes you a bigot.

      • Hostage
        September 25, 2013, 4:30 am

        So therefore if Ahmadinejad had posted a comment claiming the Holocaust was a myth he would have his comment deleted.

        Miriam the way that the Zionist memory laws work is through the various laws on hate speech. In the EU, Holocaust denial and Islamophobia both fall within the framework on racism and xenophobia decision which prohibits anyone from publicly condoning, denying or grossly trivializing crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes as defined in Articles 6, 7 and 8 of the Statute of the International Criminal Court or Article 6 of the Nuremberg Charter.

        You’ve made comments here that publicly condoned and trivialized war crimes committed against the Palestinians that are defined in Article 8 of the Rome Statute, i.e. the illegal transfer of Israeli settlers into the occupied territory and the colonization of stolen or wrongfully expropriated land in violation of the UN minority protection plan contained in resolution 181(II) and the 4th Geneva Convention:

        link to mondoweiss.net

        link to mondoweiss.net

      • Shingo
        September 25, 2013, 9:06 pm

        Iran has clearly moved on from the period of the poisoned dwarf.

        Only in terms of US spin. Rouhani is clearly more deft diplomatically that Ahmadinejad, but the previous government made many efforts for diplomatic rapprochement that were ignored or sabotaged by Obama.

        Rouhani’s criticism are to be expected, seeing as it was done for domextic consumption in the lead up to the elections. You might recall that even McCain/Palin ran on a platform of change from the Bush Administration. They too criticized Bush, while in essence, promising to continue his policies.

        Your first link was a useless dud your second reveals this.

        You’re too funny. The first was your link not mine dufus, and it includes the names both Judea and Palestina.

        Seriously, do you get a kick out fo making a fool of yourself?

        On your map of 1020 BC I see Judah is visible, also Canaanites, Philistines and Gilead to the south.
        No such place as Palestine is actually present on the map.

        Are you being deliberately supid, or just run out of ideas? Philistine and Palestina come from the same name.

        What is more;

        What’s more nothing. Another one fo your red herrings that has nothing to do with he debate and which leads nowhere,

        Hasbara fail and text book Miriam trolling.

      • pipistro
        September 23, 2013, 5:20 pm

        Warning! Peace possibly in sight!

      • Citizen
        September 23, 2013, 5:50 pm

        Iran has not started a war in centuries and is legally allowed nuclear energy. Israel has started every war it was ever in, except arguably the ’73 war. Israel defied JFK & the West and made it’s nuke weapons–Netanyahu was even involved with stealing triggers from America. Further, Israel, unlike Iran, is not a signatory to the NPT. And Israel never ratified the ban against CW. Israel also has a Samson Option. Who’s the threat?

      • talknic
        September 23, 2013, 9:49 pm

        @Citizen ” Israel has started every war it was ever in, except arguably the ’73 war.”

        Israel was still at war in ’73, illegally in possession of non-Israeli territory, in breach of Chapt VI resolutions. Israel refused pacific solution, ignored UNSC resolutions link to wp.me , the Law, the UN Charter. Aggrieved states have a right to attempt to restore sovereignty link to wp.me over their own territory

      • Citizen
        September 24, 2013, 3:18 am

        @ talknic
        I agree with you that the ’73 war was actually an extension of the ’67 war; as well, WW2 in Europe was actually an extension of WW1 apropos Versailles Treaty impact. Let’s just say the 73′ war was the only war Israel has been engaged in that superficially looks like Israel did not initiate it. Or no?

      • sandhillexit
        September 23, 2013, 8:03 pm

        Com’n Mike, look at a map. You can do this! 80 mln people. a real middle class. economic self-starters/heck they may have invented international trade, back in the day. high literacy rate. everyone has a cousin in Los Angeles.

        This is the ally the U.S. needs in the region; instead we are propping up Wahhabi clerics and Saudi royal cousins. The Persians governed all of Arabia to the Nile and they were good at it. The ancient Israelites allied with them and with the Parthians against Rome. The Romans weren’t really amused by that. you can google it!

        The West needs middle class consumers, so by some strange logic we have taken the Persians, Egyptians (84 mln) Iraqis (32 mln) and Syrians (22 mln) out of the marketplace. Israel’s 8 mm consumers are not going to carry the West.

        The Brits wrote the book on providing the balance-of-power in Europe to keep any of Germany, France and the Hapsburgs from becoming too strong. It’s time the U.S. figured out how to manage. We don’t have to have just one friend.

      • Shingo
        September 23, 2013, 8:43 pm

        Israel is right on this.

        Right on what? Israeli inelliegnce agrees with US intelligence that Iran is not making nukes as is a rational actor. When Bibbi ordered his military leaders who begin preparations for an attack on Iran, they said no.

        Iran is a menace not only to Israel, but to the West.

        That would explain why it has not attacked nor invaded anyway in 300 years.

        The menace is Israel, who threatens to drag the world into WWIII simply because of Bibbi’s paranoia and need to deflect attention from Israel’s crimes in the OT.

      • talknic
        September 23, 2013, 9:39 pm

        Mike_Konrad “Iran is a menace not only to Israel, but to the West.”

        UNSC resolutions against Iran are based on speculation and unproven accusations.

        UNSC resolutions based on hard evidence, Israeli Government statements and Israel’s recognition “as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947″ show Israel to be a belligerent, war mongering thief …. with nukes

        Idiots for Israel blindly fail to take into account the fact that it is has been the ‘West’ with its warships and troops in the M East for more than a hundred years. It is the West who subdivided the M East.

        I’ve yet to read an account of a M Eastern country parking its war ships in the Gulf of Mexico

      • RoHa
        September 23, 2013, 10:47 pm

        “Iran is a menace not only to Israel, but to the West.”

        What, exactly, is Iran going to do to the West?

      • ziusudra
        September 24, 2013, 7:51 am

        Greetings Mike Konrad,
        No much time has past thus that Mr. Armadinijad was the most infamous devil on the planet since Adolf!
        Now, the new Man, who didn’t even warm up his seat or fire any Missiles into Tel Aviv, is being demonized as even a greater perpetrator in the Annihilation of Zionistan!?
        ziusudra
        PS We remember when Adolf told his Military that a preemptive attack on Russia must come about, because they were planning to over run Germany.
        Pssst. Bush – Irak!
        Pssst. Nitwit-Jahud – Syria!
        Pssst. Nitwit-Jahud – Iran !
        Oh, the pangs of fear of the perpetual whining Nitwit- J!

      • MichaelRivero
        September 24, 2013, 11:12 am

        Recall that Israel spends hundreds of millions of dollars paying people to post pro-Israel propaganda on the net … and I think we may have just spotted one.

      • hophmi
        September 24, 2013, 12:56 pm

        Recall that trying to out everybody who disagree with you as a paid shill is a silly web game that allows you to avoid actually addressing what they say.

      • Kathleen
        September 24, 2013, 2:36 pm

        Very few believe this. You can try to keep repeating this but millions of Americans and people around the world are tired of the U.S. and Israel’s warmongering

    • piotr
      September 23, 2013, 4:34 pm

      Georgia of the Caucasus was at some point nominated as a “champion of the West” by hysterical interventionists. Their geographic knowledge comes from maps illustrating Lord of the Rings.

    • hophmi
      September 24, 2013, 10:17 am

      “Israel isn’t even part of the west ffs. It is just another tinpot middle eastern statelet run by a nutjob military junta.”

      Do you understand what a military junta is? Apparently not. Israel is run by a civilian leadership. Bibi Netanyahu is not a member of the military.

      Israel is a democracy. Deal with it.

      • Shingo
        September 25, 2013, 4:53 am

        Israel is run by a civilian leadership. Bibi Netanyahu is not a member of the military.

        Only on paper. For all intents and purposes, the military is largely in charge. If Netanyahu calls for war and the generals say no, there is no war.

        In 1967, it was the generals who bullied Eskhol to go to war.

      • Hostage
        September 25, 2013, 5:25 am

        Do you understand what a military junta is?

        Yes, and Israel has been ruled by a military cabal and military censor ever since the day it was founded. See Yora Peri, “Generals in the Cabinet Room: How the Military Shapes Israeli Policy”, link to amazon.com

        The General Staff rejected Prime Minister Eshkol’s objections and triggered a vote of confidence that changed his cabinet. See Israel’s Decision To Go To War, June 2, 1967, by Col. Ami Gluska link to gloria-center.org

        Dayan and Begin were brought in so that the Generals could have their war in 1967. You can read all about that even in Oren’s lame-assed account.

        The Generals didn’t even trust the Knesset to handled the vote of confidence or the formation of a national unity coalition:

        Mr Sharon admitted that he suggested to Mr Rabin that they could hold the cabinet in a room until “the chief of staff goes to Israel Radio and makes an announcement”.

        According to Mr Sharon’s account: “We often asked whether in the State of Israel there could arise a situation in which the army takes control.

        Sharon considered 1967 coup to force war with Egypt link to telegraph.co.uk

      • talknic
        September 25, 2013, 9:52 am

        hophmi “Israel is a democracy”

        Nothing in the Declaration about democracy

        The state of Israel ….will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel link to pages.citebite.com

        One of the very first things the Zionist dominated government did was to rob Israelis of their constitution. There’s never been a legally elected government in Israel, under the promised and obligatory constitution.

      • MHughes976
        September 25, 2013, 10:19 am

        Between river and sea sovereign power is exercised by an Israeli government which disfranchises more than a third of those subject to it. There is a Palestinian Authority which is not sovereign and which is sometimes engaged in negotiations for demilitarised autonomy, ie continuing subjection to the same sovereign power as now exists. This is a form of oligarchy.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 25, 2013, 11:39 am

        “Israel is a democracy”

        Nope. It’s an aparthied ethnocracy. Half of the population of the de facto state are disenfranchised based on nothing but their ethnicity.

  2. Annie Robbins
    September 23, 2013, 3:12 pm

    they are seriously becoming unhinged.

    • Krauss
      September 23, 2013, 3:19 pm

      They were always as crazy; only that desperation makes that crazyness become more brazen/visible.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 23, 2013, 3:23 pm

        they can’t stand it! cannot stand the idea of a rapprochement between the US and iran. this possible face to face w/obama and rouhani tomorrow is driving them nuts.

        But with a recent exchange of letters between Mr. Obama and Mr. Rouhani stirring hopes of a diplomatic breakthrough, Israeli officials are not mollified. At last year’s General Assembly, Mr. Netanyahu provided what was probably its most dramatic moment, brandishing a simple drawing that he said demonstrated how close Iran was to producing a nuclear bomb.

        This year, Israeli officials fear, the highest drama may be Mr. Obama greeting Mr. Rouhani on the sidelines of the General Assembly, something that has not happened for decades and which they worry would leave Israel more isolated in dealing with Iran.

        link to nytimes.com

      • Krauss
        September 23, 2013, 3:26 pm

        What surprises me is why NYT keeps treating Israeli hysteria as front-page news worthy of serious consideration. When did nutjobs, warmongers and crazies get to dictate policy in all other venues of politics?

        For me, it’s just odd how the NYT treats those articles as somehow extremely news-worthy.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 23, 2013, 5:05 pm

        oh, the nyt is caught like a mouse in a trap, they suffer from the ‘both sides’ syndrome. on one side they report ‘the new’s, on the other side they provide lavish loads of BS ‘context’ to cover israel’s a**. they have a video up right now on ‘america and isolationsm’ .of course they do not mention george washington, but lindbergh..ww2. ahh! syria/iran/hitler. link to nytimes.com

        subtext…

      • Bumblebye
        September 23, 2013, 9:50 pm

        Annie, this is ot, but re the CW in Syria, and the Mintpress article blaming Saudi Bandar:
        link to mintpressnews.com

        The journalist and the researcher have both been severely threatened over their work, allegedly with the ending of their careers, and she had requested her name be removed from the article.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 24, 2013, 9:28 am

        thank you bumblebye. yes, the mint press article was just the beginning, i am not surprised the pressures they are under. i have been following the latest reports, including the report by Narwani yesterday, a lot of which was first published on moa. link to moonofalabama.org

      • hophmi
        September 24, 2013, 10:22 am

        “they can’t stand it! cannot stand the idea of a rapprochement between the US and iran. this possible face to face w/obama and rouhani tomorrow is driving them nuts. ”

        Actually, it seems to be driving you nuts.

        Apparently, you’re incapable of arguing on the merits, as usual, so first you distort what Kristol wrote, and then you call him nuts.

        You would have opposed Churchill too.

        The point is not whether Kristol’s prognostications are right or wrong. The prognostications here, where an attack on Iran has been predicted so many times it’s laughable.

        But his point of view is valid. It’s obviously within Iran’s interest, now that Ahmadinejad, its whackjob Holocaust-denying leader who was defended on this blog endlessly, is gone, to appear open to talking with the United States. It’s also reasonable for people to be wary of the intentions of a state that has constantly called for the destruction of US allies, denied the Holocaust, and funded terrorist activity around the world.

      • MichaelRivero
        September 24, 2013, 11:15 am

        Iran has not launched a war of aggression against another country in over 200 years. That stands as quite a contrast to the US and Israel, which cannot seem to go 6months without attacking someone!

        Since the 1979 Iranian revolution and the downfall of the US Puppet Ruler the Shah, Iran has been an Islamic state. In that interval of time, 1979 to the present, Iran has not invaded anyone. Not once. People of all religions live in peace in Iran, even Jews, who find life so comfortable in Iran they refused an offer by the government of Israel to emigrate!

        In the same period of time, Israel, a self-declared Jewish state, attacked Iraq in 1981, bombing the power station at Osirik, claiming it was a clandestine weapons factory. Subsequent examination of the ruins following the 2003 invasion proved Israel had lied. In 1982, Israel invaded Lebanon. This led to the Massacres at Sabra and Shatilla. In February 2003 Israel staged incursions into Gaza and Nablus. In September 2007 Israel bombed Syria, again insisting they were destroying a clandestine weapons laboratory. Again there was no evidence to support Israel’s claims. In 2006, Israel attacked Lebanon, killing 1200, mostly civilians, several UN observers, and littering the landscape with land mines on their way out. In February 2008 Israel again raided Gaza, killing over 100. HAMAS agreed to a cease fire and kept it for 6 months until November 4, when Israel again attacked without warning, killing 6 HAMAS members, and launching operation CAST LEAD. 1300 Gazans, mostly civilians, were killed. Israel lost 13 soldiers. Violations of international law included the use of White Phosphorus incendiary bombs against civilians and non-military targets. The United Nations investigated, but Israel refused to cooperate. In May 2010, Israel attacked an international aid flotilla bringing food and medical supplies to Gaza in international waters. 9 people were murdered including an American from New York.

        In the same period of time, the United States, officially a secular nation but predominantly Christian, attacked El Salvador (1980), Libya (1981), Sinai (1982), Lebanon (1982 1983), Egypt (1983), Grenada (1983), Honduras (1983), Chad (1983), Persian Gulf (1984), Libya (1986) , Bolivia (1986), Iran (1987), Persian Gulf (1987), Kuwait (1987), Iran (1988), Honduras (1988), Panama (1988), Libya (1989), Panama (1989), Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru (1989), Philippines (1989), Panama (1989-1990), Liberia (1990), Saudi Arabia (1990), Iraq (1991), Zaire (1991), Sierra Leone (1992), Somalia (1992), Bosnia-Herzegovina (1993 to present), Macedonia (1993), Haiti (1994), Macedonia (1994), Bosnia (1995), Liberia (1996), Central African Republic (1996), Albania (1997), Congo/Gabon (1997), Sierra Leon (1997), Cambodia (1997), Iraq (1998), Guinea/Bissau (1998), Kenya/Tanzania (1998 to 1999), Afghanistan/Sudan (1998), Liberia (1998), East Timor (1999), Serbia (1999), Sierra Leon (2000), Yemen (2000), East Timor (2000), Afghanistan (2001 to present), Yemen (2002), Philippines (2002) , Cote d’Ivoire (2002), Iraq (2003 to present), Liberia (2003), Georgia/Djibouti (2003), Haiti (2004), Georgia/Djibouti/Kenya/Ethiopia/Yemen/Eritrea War on Terror (2004), Pakistan drone attacks (2004 to present), Somalia (2007), South Ossetia/Georgia (2008), Syria (2008), Yemen (2009), Haiti (2010), etc. etc. etc. etc.

        So, who is the danger to world peace?

        It is NOT Iran!

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 24, 2013, 12:03 pm

        “Apparently, you’re incapable of arguing on the merits, as usual, so first you distort what Kristol wrote, and then you call him nuts.’

        LMAO. No one’s distorting Kristol. Distorting him would be an improvement; his work is such childish tantrum-throwing as it is, that it’s self-refuting. And it’s also fairly clear on its face that he is throwing a fit because it seems less likely that he and his neocon criminal buddies are going to be able to get more American servicemen and women killed and maimed, along with a couple hundred thousand Iranian civilians this time, in order to advance the cause of their twisted polical ideology, like he did with Iraq.

      • justicewillprevail
        September 24, 2013, 12:09 pm

        Another meandering, deliberate mischaracterisation of the debates on this site, with a feeble attempt at justification of Kristol. Keep up the backpedalling.

      • quercus
        September 24, 2013, 2:15 pm

        @hophmi. I am not one of those people who has been predicting an attack on Iran, in fact, I have always believed that would NOT happen, and I emailed Kristol after reading his extremely childish article at the Weekly Standard to say so.

        Israel will not attack Iran because they would get the sh**t kicked out of them, to be blunt, and they damn well know it. That is why it ain’t going to happen.

        And as far as Ahmadinejad’s rhetoric — I think he intended to be provocative, full well knowing the response he would get by saying the things he did (although he has been mistranslated), and just like Pavlov’s dog you can get rabid Zionists frothing at the mouth when you say anything about the Holocaust not to their liking. He is most definitely not a whackjob to use your elementary-school language. I also don’t think the President of Iran is the leader — I think it is the ayatollahs, if I am not mistaken.

      • Kathleen
        September 24, 2013, 2:39 pm

        Ahmadinejad never denied the Holocaust. He questioned the numbers of people killed. He said open up the records to verify. He also never said Israel should be wiped off the map. Total hooey.

      • Kathleen
        September 24, 2013, 2:41 pm

        Micheal keep it coming. Hop and team do not like facts. They of course would prefer that folks like yourself who develop opinions based on facts just move along. Keep it coming

      • hophmi
        September 24, 2013, 3:04 pm

        “Ahmadinejad never denied the Holocaust. He questioned the numbers of people killed.”

        Are you serious with this? What the hell do you think Holocaust denial is? The guy held an entire Holocaust denial conference called “”International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust.” Who the hell do you think attended it? He has a long record of questioning whether the Holocaust happened.

        link to en.wikipedia.org

        And for the record, here are his statements on Israel. I think you know very well what his position was. But you couldn’t care less.

        link to en.wikipedia.org

        You’re the one who doesn’t understand what a fact is, not me.

      • American
        September 24, 2013, 3:05 pm

        ”You would have opposed Churchill too”…hoppy

        So what….I might have opposed him too and been an appeaser.
        I certainly would have tried to have come to some agreement or compromise in lifting the economic punishment imposed on Germany after WWI as a way to avoid WWII. I think Hitler might have been molified and contained by that but it wasnt tried.
        Churchill disgust me…he enjoyed his ‘war fame’ too much.
        Typical little strutting chickenhawk.

      • Bandolero
        September 24, 2013, 3:19 pm

        I followed Ahmadinejad closely, and in his early writings on his presidency blog I really found what looked like holocaust denial. As far as I remember, he argued that when almost all the rest of zionist history is based on lies why the world should believe them the holocaust story.

        However, Ahmadinejad seemed to have changed his opinion after the much-defamed holocaust conference in Tehran at the end of 2006. In his later speeches Ahmadinejad took over very much the line of Neturei Karta’s Aharon Cohen, who is said to have said that while the holocaust is real the Palestinians were not guilty of the holocaust, so the holocaust can’t serve as justification to punish the Palestinians.

        So, to me it seems more proof that Ahmadinejad learned, an that he is open-minded and it’s possible to persuade him by the quality of an argument presented to him, something what hardly can be said about most western politicians.

        And, of course, for most Iranians, I think, the holocaust is not very close, but something rather distant, a crime what Europeans did to other Europeans in times of a war which was provoked by Europeans.

      • Shingo
        September 24, 2013, 6:57 pm

        But his point of view is valid.

        How can it be valid when it’s based completely on lies and false allegations?

        Ahmadinejad was pretty unpleasant, but Holocaust-denial is not an act of war , much as pro Israeli whack jobs like to suggest.

        He never threatened Israel or any other countries, though once again, vows to fight back if Israel attacked Iran were also made out to be a threat – which again shows who the real whack jobs are.

        Iran were always open to talking with the United States. They held a number of talks, where the US layer down terms which they knew Iran would never accept. In other cases, the US and it’s proxies sabotages talks with suicide attacks or BD declarations they had just discovered Fordow.

        As for finding terrorist activity around the world, the US and Israel have no moral leg to stand on.

      • miriam6
        September 24, 2013, 6:58 pm

        I hope Mondoweiss commenter username Donald @ is reading this long, long list of countries America has attacked as compiled by Mr R ivero

      • Annie Robbins
        September 24, 2013, 7:23 pm

        Actually, it seems to be driving you nuts.

        Apparently, you’re incapable of arguing on the merits, as usual, so first you distort what Kristol wrote, and then you call him nuts.

        hi hops, my comment link to mondoweiss.net

        was related to the link and blockquote, which was not written about kristol, nor did it distort him. you’re incapable of arguing on the merits, as usual, so first you distort what i wrote, and then you call me nuts. ha!

      • eljay
        September 24, 2013, 9:13 pm

        >> I hope Mondoweiss commenter username Donald @ is reading this long, long list of countries America has attacked as compiled by Mr R ivero

        Zio-supremacist miriam6eee is well aware that that long, long list does not absolve the supremacist “Jewish State” of Israel of its past and on-going (war) crimes.

      • RoHa
        September 24, 2013, 9:15 pm

        @MichaelRivero

        But Israel and the US are goodies, and all those others are baddies!

        So that’s all right.

      • RoHa
        September 24, 2013, 9:18 pm

        American, I wouldn’t call Churchill a chickenhawk. To me, the term implies a reluctance to lay one’s own life on the line while urging others to fight. As far as I can tell, Churchill never showed that sort of cowardice. Doesn’t make him any more pleasant a character, though.

      • Shingo
        September 24, 2013, 9:19 pm

        I hope Mondoweiss commenter username Donald @ is reading this long, long list of countries America has attacked as compiled by Mr R ivero

        I hope you take the time to go back and read what Donald wrote, so you will get it through your head that Donald and the rest of us never disagreed with you about American aggression.

      • talknic
        September 25, 2013, 11:16 am

        hophmi ” first you distort what Kristol wrote”

        It’s a direct quote from the NYT. Why do you need to lie?

        “But his point of view is valid. It’s obviously within Iran’s interest, now that Ahmadinejad, its whackjob Holocaust-denying leader who was defended on this blog endlessly, is gone, to appear open to talking with the United States”

        The Iranian rhetoric has not changed. Israel is freaking out because the US has changed its rhetoric.

        “It’s also reasonable for people to be wary of the intentions of a state that has constantly called for the destruction of US allies”

        The Zionist regime is not an ally of anyone. The Zionist regime in Jerusalem is not Israel. Jerusalem isn’t even in Israel. The UNSC agrees with Iran link to wp.me

        “denied the Holocaust”

        Questioning why further study should not be allowed and why, if it occurred in Europe, the Palestinians should pay with more than half their country, is not Holocaust denial. Israeli propaganda has to keep adding the word “denial” where it doesn’t exist

        ” and funded terrorist activity around the world”

        Accusations are not evidence. For example why haven’t Hamas used any of the amazing weapons Iran has allegedly supplied them?

      • Donald
        September 25, 2013, 12:31 pm

        “I hope you take the time to go back and read what Donald wrote, so you will get it through your head that Donald and the rest of us never disagreed with you about American aggression.”

        She has it through her head. She’s trolling. She’s seen me criticizing American ruthlessness and imperialism in the very thread where she started this attack. But she’s staked out a position and she can’t back down at this stage without admitting she lied.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 25, 2013, 12:55 pm

        “He has a long record of questioning whether the Holocaust happened.”

        Well, of course he does. The state which stands as a mortal threat to his own has based its legitimacy in large part on that event. It’s politics. (Stupid and self-defeating politics, in my opinion, but politics nonetheless) It’s no different than zionists denying the paramount right of the Palestinian people to the land of Palestine by citing to the Old Testament.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 25, 2013, 2:14 pm

        She’s trolling….But she’s staked out a position and she can’t back down at this stage without admitting she lied.

        yes, she’s a pro.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 25, 2013, 2:21 pm

        It’s no different than zionists denying the paramount right of the Palestinian people to the land of Palestine by citing to the Old Testament.

        denial is denial, hops won’t villify his teams’ like he’ll go after iran’s ex prez. the difference tho, is one has no power while the others are influencing the global superpower and still carrying out the war crime of ethnic cleansing. the denial of a massive crime against humanity that is presently occurring he won’t harp on about.

      • miriam6
        September 25, 2013, 2:29 pm

        Well hopefully if I am given a right to reply to these dumb accusations in my comment replying to Donald I posted just a while ago on Sept. 25 1.07pm , my comment shows my position clearly.

        What exactly did I lie about?!

        As I say if my comment of Sept 25 1.07pm appears on this thread it will clarify matters regarding my position.

        In Annie and Donald’s crazy supposedly ‘leftie’ ( leftie- yuck! how ghastly! – the proper GROWN UP word is ‘Leftist’ )bubble universe a ‘troll’ is someone whose argument you disagree with.

        In the real world adults agree to argue and agree and disagree without resort to the childish insult of ‘troll’

      • talknic
        September 25, 2013, 2:30 pm

        miriam6 “I hope Mondoweiss commenter username Donald @ is reading this long, long list of countries America has attacked as compiled by Mr R ivero

        And? If Donald reads it will Israel suddenly adhere to International Law? Suddenly withdraw from all non-Israeli territories?

        Or does the US’s belligerence mean Israeli’s well documented belligerence didn’t happen? Two or more wrongs make a right?

        Q) What exactly is proven by your whataboutery?
        A) NOTHING! ZIP! NIL! NOUGHT! NADA!

      • miriam6
        September 25, 2013, 2:34 pm

        I see you have already deleted my comment of sept 25 at 1.07 pm refuting Donald’s nonsense.

        Lets face it rather than deal with my arguments you are now resorting to censorship.

        You evidently don’t feel that your arguments actually stand up to closer scrutiny at all.

        So much for the ‘War of Ideas’

      • miriam6
        September 25, 2013, 2:38 pm

        Donald@;

        You say you condemn American aggression and militarism which I accept , – but then in your previous comments you qualify and attempt to relativize America’s aggression by pointing to Israeli complicity and support for a handful of dodgy Latin American regimes plus that of Apartheid era S.A as though that somehow means America and Israel / Latin American juntas are equally powerful.

        They are not.

        My point is that the greater the power a nation possesses – the greater ought to be the accountability.

        This means that Israel should be condemned for supporting dodgy regimes but because America the Superpower did the same on a larger , global scale , the accountability and responsibility is greater because America is more powerful than Israel.

        Your use of language is strikingly different in describing Israeli politician’s / Latin American as ‘thugs’ but you do not use the same words to describe Obama.

        If these leaders of smaller nations are thugs then Obama is a far greater thug by virtue of America’s overwhelming global military might.

        If it’s all the same pattern to you why not call Obama a thug too?

        What is more, you claimed all ‘lefties’ as you call them are against both Israeli and American militarism , giving the impression that all leftists are thoroughly good eggs who are always opposed to ALL militarism.

        That is absolutely untrue , as during the 1990′s so called leftists supported militarism in the form of NATO intervention in the Balkans.

        A good number of leftists also supporting NATO ‘s catastrophic onslaught on Libya to unseat Gadhafi INCLUDING so- called leftists ( ha! ) like Philip Weiss.

        I oppose ALL militarism without exception regardless of who is doing it including Israel but to re-iterate the more powerful a nation is the greater the accountability must be.

        If you read all my comments you will find I have made these same point’s over and over again.

      • miriam6
        September 25, 2013, 2:48 pm

        My Sept 25 at 2.34pm comment I was talking about the MW editorial ( to call it that ) position.

      • tree
        September 25, 2013, 3:18 pm

        My point is that the greater the power a nation possesses – the greater ought to be the accountability.

        No, that’s not your point. Its merely your excuse in this instance for ragging on about US state violence, but ignoring Israeli state violence. If you really believed that greater power required greater accountability then your condemnation of Israeli actions would be much greater than your condemnation of Palestinian actions (and likewise with Israeli actions versus the actions of Hezbollah).

        Israel is a gargantuan military and economic power compared to the Palestinians. That is why it is able to militarily, socially and economically crush them with its belligerent occupation. And yet you excuse it and demand that Palestinians must provide safeguards for Jews for some future when they might be the majority there with the same voting rights as Jews have presently. In the meantime you are perfectly happy with the overt, state-sanctioned and oppressive discrimination with which Israel burdens its minorities, Palestinian and otherwise.

        You are a hypocrite and an Israeli apologist and have absolutely no credibility on this issue.

      • eljay
        September 25, 2013, 3:24 pm

        >> You are a hypocrite and an Israeli apologist …

        She is, in other words, a Zio-supremacist.

      • miriam6
        September 25, 2013, 3:29 pm

        The only true leftist position is to be against ALL militarism as practiced by the powerful.

        ( Which doesn’t mean I am a pacifist – many , mostly leftist volunteers fought and died in the battle against fascism in Franco’s Spain.)

        A true leftist position cannot be arbitrary on the question of militarism.

        It cannot decide to support and encourage militarism in the form of NATO aggression when the Serbs are the target or Libya’s Gadhafi only to arbitrarily oppose it elsewhere.

        My feeling is that if more people had opposed NATO intervention in the Balkans then it might not have been so easy for those similar/ the same militarists to invade and occupy Iraq and to bomb Libya.

        The propaganda war for military/ diplomatic intervention ( laughably named a humanitarian intervention- as though bombing people and militarism can ever be humane ) in the Balkans created the whole modern so called ‘ humanitarian’ interventionist ideology that Tony Blair and Bush carried over into Iraq.

        What is more a true leftist position holds that accountability must go hand in hand with power.

        The more powerful a nation the greater the need for accountability.

      • hophmi
        September 25, 2013, 3:38 pm

        “It’s a direct quote from the NYT. Why do you need to lie?”

        The article was from the Weekly Standard, and the assertion was that Kristol was comparing Rouhani to Hitler.

        “The Iranian rhetoric has not changed. Israel is freaking out because the US has changed its rhetoric.”

        Who’s freaking out, exactly?

        “The Zionist regime is not an ally of anyone.”

        It’s called Israel. What are you, an Iranian stooge?

        “Questioning why further study should not be allowed and why,”

        It’s questioning in the way David Irving questions the Holocaust. And it’s quite clear that that’s exactly what it is. But yet again, you defend it.

        “Accusations are not evidence.”

        Civil judgments are. It’s far more than an accusation, and you can tell your Iranian handlers I said so.

      • Donald
        September 25, 2013, 4:45 pm

        In the real world miriam, this comment of yours–

        “I hope Mondoweiss commenter username Donald @ is reading this long, long list of countries America has attacked as compiled by Mr R ivero”

        is trolling. It had nothing to do with the thread, but was an attempt to get a rise out of me (successful, btw, so congrats) by implying that I deny US imperialism, attacks on other countries, when in the real world, like most of the lefties (sorry) here, I condemn US imperialism in general and see US support for Israel as part of a pattern where we support allies with noxious human rights records, whitewashing their crimes while supplying them with aid and weapons. You read my replies, one of which pointed out that in fact I have seen people who might be suitable recipients of your criticism (liberals who don’t like Israel’s behavior but support the drone policy) and you ignored it. You also expressed disgust over American support for Latin American thugs, and while that’s as it should be , reacted very strangely (unless you’re a troll) when I pointed out that Israel had done some of the same things. Someone who was sincere would have been chagrined to discover that–after all, you claim to be horrified by America’s support of death squad regimes and you apparently didn’t know Israel did the same–, but you just doubled down.

        So yes, you’re a troll.

      • Donald
        September 25, 2013, 5:07 pm

        I just saw your reply above. I’ve called Obama a war criminal, though I don’t know if I have here or not. I’ve actually been ridiculed at another blog for talking about American war crimes so much. Doesn’t really matter, except that I have a troll here pretending to care about my language. And if you are so concerned about American imperialism, it’s odd that you don’t go after people like hophmi, an American who supported some of American’s worst actions in recent decades, including the sanctions on Iraq and initially our invasion. It looks for all the world like you are just trying to distract attention from Israel’s crimes by coming to a website devoted mainly to Israel and the US and making the usual illogical claim that if we are here, we can’t also be critical of America’s other crimes.

        “What is more, you claimed all ‘lefties’ as you call them are against both Israeli and American militarism , giving the impression that all leftists are thoroughly good eggs who are always opposed to ALL militarism.

        That is absolutely untrue , as during the 1990′s so called leftists supported militarism in the form of NATO intervention in the Balkans.”

        I was speaking about Chomsky-style lefties, meaning people who criticize Israel, US support for Israel, US war crimes, US support for other countries with rotten human rights records, US support for brutal sanctions, etc…but fine, some on the left do support “humanitarian intervention” as they call it. I already had alluded in that earlier thread to Obama supporters who support his drone policies, but since you’ve decided to focus on me rather than people who actually support the policies you say you abhor, I suppose it all makes sense to ignore anything I say which doesn’t fit your narrative. Unfortunately that seems to be almost everything I say.

        Truthfully, none of your behavior makes sense except as trolling or opportunism. It could be that you are just incoherent in your thinking. It’s sort of weird having my own personal troll. What do I feed you? Comments like this one?

      • miriam6
        September 25, 2013, 5:38 pm

        Tree@;

        My point is that the greater the power a nation possesses – the greater ought to be the accountability. No, that’s not your point.

        No, – I insist that that IS my point. I say it because I believe and I mean it.

        I am opposed to the brutal military occupation of the OPT by Israel and I am also opposed to the existence of institutional and any other form of racist discrimination against the Palestinians within Green Line Israel.

        I wish more Israelis would act against it.

        Some do already.

        I am in favour of Palestinians becoming equal citizens of Israel in a properly fully democratic Israel.

      • James Canning
        September 25, 2013, 7:46 pm

        Churchill was very brave in battle. And a very great man indeed.

      • James Canning
        September 25, 2013, 7:52 pm

        True, Kathleen. But he was a bit more confrontational in his approach than perhaps was wise.

      • Shingo
        September 25, 2013, 7:54 pm

        but then in your previous comments you qualify and attempt to relativize America’s aggression by pointing to Israeli complicity and support for a handful of dodgy Latin American regimes plus that of Apartheid era S.A as though that somehow means America and Israel / Latin American juntas are equally powerful.

        Straw man alert.

        You’re back to your dishonest tactic of attributing false arguments to others and then arguing those points.

        Donald, nor anyone else, has suggested the US and Israel ate equally powerful. He pointed out that Israel shared the same repugnant track record of backing death squads, tyrants, and oppressive regimes.

        That Israel has committed these crimes on a smaller scale (not for lack of will but lack of means) does not change that fact.

        I oppose ALL militarism without exception regardless of who is doing it including Israel but to re-iterate the more powerful a nation is the greater the accountability must be.

        No Miriam, you are a cheer leader for Israeli militarism – without exception – and you have been consistently pro Israeli militarism.

      • Shingo
        September 25, 2013, 9:09 pm

        I see you have already deleted my comment of sept 25 at 1.07 pm refuting Donald’s nonsense.

        You made no attempt to refute Donald’s points, but simply created a straw man argument based on nothing Donald has said or suggested.

        Trolling is a banning offence.

        Lets face it rather than deal with my arguments you are now resorting to censorship.

        Lets face it rather than presenting relevant argument, you are resorting to trolling.

        You evidently don’t feel that your arguments actually stand up to closer scrutiny at all.

        You have zero credibility and contribute nothing at all to the debate.

        Habsara fail. Stop trolling or you will be banned.

        You evidently don’t feel that you can present on topic arguments that will actually stand up to closer scrutiny at all.

      • Shingo
        September 25, 2013, 9:11 pm

        What exactly did I lie about?!

        1. Claiming you are not a Zionist, when you clearly are.
        2. Claiming that you are concerned about the abuse fo Palestinians while defending it
        3. Denying you are a racist and a bigot, while presenting racist and bigoted arguments.

        You are indeed a troll, and it’s time you be banned. You are contributing nothing to the debate.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 26, 2013, 11:15 am

        “It’s called Israel. What are you, an Iranian stooge?”

        He’s refering to the government running the state, not the state itself, dimwit.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 26, 2013, 11:28 am

        “Churchill was very brave in battle. And a very great man indeed.”

        Churchill was a war criminal, murderous imperialist and a PR hound who stood in the spotlight earned by better men.

      • James Canning
        September 26, 2013, 2:02 pm

        @Woody – - You are of course welcome to your opinion. Any list of greatest Englishmen ever, will include Winston S. Churchill. For very good reasons.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 26, 2013, 2:25 pm

        “Any list of greatest Englishmen ever, will include Winston S. Churchill.”

        That may be true. It still wouldn’t change the fact that he was a war criminal, unrepentant imperialist and nasty human being.

      • Bandolero
        September 26, 2013, 2:53 pm

        Churchill was foremost a white British racist – and, of course, he was also a zionist. See how Churchill saw the world – in his own words:

        Zionism offers the third sphere to the political conceptions of the Jewish race. In violent contrast to international communism, it presents to the Jew a national idea of a commanding character. It has fallen to the British Government, as the result of the conquest of Palestine, to have the opportunity and the responsibility of securing for the Jewish race all over the world a home and a centre of national life.

        Source and fulltext: Winston Churchill, February 8, 1920 in Illustrated Sunday Herald: ZIONISM versus BOLSHEVISM. A STRUGGLE FOR THE SOUL OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE. (via Wikisource).

        Who can find there any similarities to
        a) the Nazi ideology?
        b) the ideology of Zionism?

    • American
      September 24, 2013, 2:37 am

      Annie Robbins says:
      September 23, 2013 at 3:12 pm

      they are seriously becoming unhinged”>>>>>>

      Yea they are. But it’s all good.
      I noticed this on line written by he who cannot be mentioned and it’s similar to what I said earlier about their narcissistic defect.

      ‘How did AIPAC, ADL and the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organization fall into this trap (0n Syria)? How did they manage to walk into this ambush openly and loudly advocating a war against America’s will? Couldn’t they foresee to possible outcome? Couldn’t they predict Jews being once again blamed for global scale conflict? Are they really that stupid?
      My answer is simple. They are far from being stupid but they are clearly blind, because blindness is, unfortunately, intrinsic to chosenness, which implies dismissal of the other as well as otherness. Chosenness is a narcissistic modus operandi.”

      And they are throwing their prevous ‘night flower lobby’ modus operandi to the wind for some reason—-I am not sure why.
      We have seen the Zios influencers for years tell politicans to keep Israel topics and any US-Isr dfferences ‘private’–not discuss it “in front of the US public”. They tell the various US adms that discussing it in public will make people ‘blame the Jews” for the US abnormal largess and US actions for Israel.
      As we kn0w, that isn’t their real reason, they fear just what happened on Syria—that the public will start objecting to the Lobby in the same way if we find out too much about what is going on.

      What is so ironic is the I-First “contridictions” and propaganda have now “collided”.
      The politicans obviously didnt cooperate on ‘keeping it private’ cause Israel is now a daily topic number one in congress and loyalty to Israel has become the election test for politicans and in all their campaign pledges.
      And why is that?…..cause they convinced politicans that Americans support Israel. The support propaganda is in every hokey poll they commission, every speech some zio makes, what every zio who works in and for the ‘political consultant industry’- and the consultant industry is overstocked with and a natural home for Zio influencers—- tells them that.

      Basically they have trapped themselves.

      They cant stop the ‘Israel talk’ now–all the politicans are too convinced now that Israel loyalty is fully accepted by the public—the politicans professing loyalty to Isr in their campaigns, the Hagel loyalty test display, the Kerry ‘never again’ usage, the msm accent on the threat to Israel–to name a few.

      They have lost all strategy—they are floundering all over the place—they know they have to do something different on Iran cause the same public that objected to Syria is gonna object to bombing Iran.
      So what are they going to do?
      Looks to me they only have two choices now–fully ramp up the Lobby and the Kristols and the US Zio big wigs and pound the public and our politicans in the face with it –or attack Iran themselves as a last resort way to try and get the US involved.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 24, 2013, 9:30 am

        yep, feels like the ground is shifting wrt discourse about the lobby american. like a mask has been ripped off, no putting it back on now.

        today should be really interesting. obama and rouhani…yikes!

      • hophmi
        September 24, 2013, 10:23 am

        “yep, feels like the ground is shifting wrt discourse about the lobby american. like a mask has been ripped off, no putting it back on now.”

        I don’t know what planet you live on, but nothing has changed at all. You’re seeing what you want to see.

      • justicewillprevail
        September 24, 2013, 12:11 pm

        Some of us live on planet earth, unlike the Planet Zionists who inhabit a fact-free universe of denial.

      • Hostage
        September 24, 2013, 3:22 pm

        I don’t know what planet you live on, but nothing has changed at all. You’re seeing what you want to see.

        I live on the planet where AIPAC publicly announced to Politico that it was going to send 300+ people to congressional offices to lobby for strikes on Syria, and their effort was rebuffed by the overwhelming majority of Americans. It’s the same planet where the Israeli cabinet admits that Obama will never strike Iran if he can’t even muster support for strikes against Syria.

  3. Krauss
    September 23, 2013, 3:18 pm

    It’s pretty obvious why people with a racist and paranoid world view like that would oppose so-called ‘Arabists’ within the Republican party who tended to have a more balanced(actually realistic view of American interests, which necessarily de-empethaized Israel).

    The problem for Kristol and other hard-right Jewish neocons is that to recruit gentile fellow-travellers they had to sugar the deal somehow. Blind loyalty for Israel works if you’re from a Jewish background with skin in the game. If not, what’s in it for you?
    Enter islamophobia.
    That’s what the Steve Emersons’ of the world have peddled and Kristol have been more than willing to help along.

    They used the 9/11 atrocities to the max to gin this feeling up – and then use it for Israel. The problem is that the so-called ‘muslim horde’ was never going to take over Europe, in some countres in Europe most Arabs aren’t even muslim, which is now obvious. Secondly, muslims aren’t going to ‘take over’ America in some kind of paranoid ‘stealth jihad’ and thirdly most Americans who get to know muslims know they’re decent people.

    Add 10 years of failed wars in the middle east and Kristol is start to look like the boy who cried wolf one too many times.

    The additional problem for Kristol is that an ever-growing segment of the American mainstream population(which I define as people not very political and/or interested in the minute foreign policy issues) are starting to see AIPAC, and by extension Israel, for what it is. I still believe that the Ron Paul moment of the 2012 election was a watershed moment few still have grappled with properly. It was the first strong grassroots message to the elites of both parties, but particularly the GOP, that there must be a new course. I believe Obama saw and understood that, and adapted accoringly.
    I also think more and more Americans now view Israel in its true light; as a parasite state trying to goad America to fight its wars. Israel cannot fight Iran alone – even if it pretends so – which is why it wants to use American military to achieve its aims.

    For me, it will be interesting to see the continual neocon/realist split inside the Republican party. How long will people talk about ‘isolationism’ instead of talking about warmongers and, perhaps more importantly in Kristol’s case, Israel Firsters? (The same is true in the case of Jennifer Rubin).

    But I’m pessimistic on the GOP. The strongest realist movement is now inside the Democratic party; Mearsheimer himself used to be a Rockefeller Republican but now openly admins he identifies more closely with the left on foreign policy and in his sparse comments on domestic policy does suggest a strong shift to the left.

    What will win this battle is demographics. The GOP cannot win without much more minority voters – who tend to understand that it makes no sense to spend money on wars when there are such gaping inequalities in America. Kristol’s party will not win.
    Will he defect back to where he belonged on all other issues than foreign policy; the dems? The neocons used to be Marxist Zionists who didn’t trust the left on Israel. That’s why they switched. If they see the Democratic party as inevitably the ruler for generations to come, could we see a switch back?

    I’m not sure if the Democratic party has a well-thought out alternative yet. Mostly opposition to what we don’t want.

  4. eljay
    September 23, 2013, 3:23 pm

    As Iran moves closer to nuclear weapons, undeterred by the West’s leading power, a 21st-century tragedy threatens to unfold. Unless. Unless a dramatis persona who didn’t exist in 1936 intervenes: Israel. … Despite imprecations from the Obama administration, Israel will act. One prays it will not be too late.

    The arrogant and belligerent school-yard bully repeatedly threatens to beat up the quiet, unpopular kid.

    But he doesn’t, because his friends have conveniently agreed to restrain him.

    The bully hopes no-one sees through the pretence, or that his friends decide to stop holding him back…

  5. just
    September 23, 2013, 3:32 pm

    PNAC Kristol.

    How in the hell can he compare President Rouhani to Hitler? I am so sick of the evocation of Hitler and the Holocaust– can’t they ever even pretend to be honest? Mr. Obama needs to stand up to this bs NOW. Because never, ever should this become true:

    “It is a strange course of events, heavy with historical irony, that has made the prime minister of Israel for now the leader of the West. But irony is better than tragedy.”

    He should be ostracized and ridiculed for his eternally stupid pov. As for Netanyahu, he is the leader of crazies. He’s not my President and is not our friend. This ‘best ally in the world status’ has given birth to a most unholy alliance, and one I wish we were rid of.

    If Israel has the cojones to “act” out of paranoia and with zero effort toward peace– let them go it alone. I feel sorry for the helpless Palestinians and Israelis, but I don’t want my government to lift a finger to help the deliberately warmongering and delusional Zionists.

    • just
      September 23, 2013, 3:51 pm

      One more thing– what has Israel done for us? Why do they keep stabbing us in the back and disrespecting us? I think this time, they may have just gone too far.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 23, 2013, 4:00 pm

        It’s done nothing (when it’s not doing things like shooting up our Navy ships and spying on us, that is.)

      • RoHa
        September 23, 2013, 10:30 pm

        “what has Israel done for us?”

        Israel invented cherry tomatoes, and mobile phones, and the internet, and air, and lots of other stuff. You ask them.

    • Don
      September 23, 2013, 6:14 pm

      Reductio ad Hitlerum
      link to en.wikipedia.org

      • Castellio
        September 24, 2013, 10:31 am

        Thanks for the reference, Don. Surely there’s an historical irony that it was the infamous Strauss who coined the phrase.

        Is there a list somewhere of all the Middle Eastern political leaders who have been twinned with Hitler. It would make interesting reading. Was Nasser the first? (Where is McBride when you need him?)

    • hophmi
      September 24, 2013, 10:24 am

      “How in the hell can he compare President Rouhani to Hitler?”

      He didn’t. Learn to read. Making an analogy to the mistakes of previous generations is not the same as comparing Rouhani with Hitler. He clearly said that this was not the 1930s.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 24, 2013, 11:47 am

        “Making an analogy to the mistakes of previous generations is not the same as comparing Rouhani with Hitler”

        I’ll remember that the next time one of you zios get your panties in a bunch because someone compared your apartheid state’s acts to those of Nazi Germany. LMAO.

      • Donald
        September 24, 2013, 11:56 am

        “He clearly said that this was not the 1930′s.”

        What he said was this–

        “There will be no Rhineland this time. Iran isn’t 1930s Germany, and the United States is more formidable than Britain. For now, Iran will have to achieve its goals by stealth and diplomacy, while Hitler achieved his by bravado and force. ”

        Basically, he says it’s not the 30′s in that the power ratio between the US and Iran is much larger than it was between Britain and Germany. But he is comparing Iran to Hitler, right there in that sentence above, just saying that because of the power difference Iran has to obtain its goals by stealth while Hitler could do it with bravado and force.

      • eljay
        September 24, 2013, 12:04 pm

        >> But he is comparing Iran to Hitler, right there in that sentence above …

        The funny thing about hophmeee’s feigned indignation is that, had the paragraph read as follows, you KNOW he’d have immediately noted the comparison to Hitler, and condemned it (possibly even as anti-Semitic):

        … we’ll see a charm offensive worthy of Richard III by the Israeli Prime Minister and veteran deceiver of the West, Benjamin Netanyahu. In response, the Obama administration will move on from punting in Syria to appeasing Israel….
        . . .
        There will be no Rhineland this time. Israel isn’t 1930s Germany, and the United States is more formidable than Britain. For now, Israel will have to achieve its goals by stealth and diplomacy, while Hitler achieved his by bravado and force. … Moreover, Netanyahu knows what he is doing …

      • Hostage
        September 24, 2013, 3:32 pm

        “He clearly said that this was not the 1930′s.”

        That doesn’t answer the original question at all, which was ““How in the hell can he compare President Rouhani to Hitler?”, not “How can he compare 2013 with the 1930s?”

      • Hostage
        September 24, 2013, 3:26 pm

        Learn to read. Making an analogy to the mistakes of previous generations is not the same as comparing Rouhani with Hitler.

        anal·o·gy
        noun \ə-ˈna-lə-jē\

        : a comparison of two things based on their being alike in some way

        : the act of comparing two things that are alike in some way
        link to merriam-webster.com

        So you are the one who is:
        il·lit·er·ate
        adjective \(ˌ)i(l)-ˈli-t(ə-)rət\

        : not knowing how to read or write

        : having or showing a lack of knowledge about a particular subject

  6. seafoid
    September 23, 2013, 3:45 pm

    So there’s a new Hitler. It must be for the fall collections. I hope he dresses in trendy colours. Does he have a smartphone ?
    Is it like ActionMan? Does he come with a range of outfits?

  7. Woody Tanaka
    September 23, 2013, 3:47 pm

    It’s always 1938 with these losers, isn’t it?

    Well, at least now we know who the new Next Hitler ™ is, as opposed to the last Next Hitler ™ or the Next Hitler ™ before him, or the Next Hitler ™ before him. My question is: who is going to be the next Next Hitler ™?

    • seafoid
      September 24, 2013, 5:50 am

      The Next Hitler ™ is as flexible as the proverbial little black dress.
      It can be used in any bot scenario and fits into the rhetorical handbag. Wear it with lipstick and look like a pig.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 24, 2013, 7:03 am

        LOL. you got that right. it is a very flexible thing

      • hophmi
        September 24, 2013, 11:36 am

        Did you miss the part of the article that explicitly said that this is NOT the 1930s? Or are you incapable of understanding the concept of an analogy?

  8. American
    September 23, 2013, 4:00 pm

    Let Kristol rant…he does an excellent job of exposing and discrediting Zionism.
    The more outrageous he gets the better…..he comes across as a lunatic to the majority of the US who don’t see their US lives threaten by Iran.
    And as I posted elsewhere…..(from a creditable polling source)…the majority of the US is not willing to go to war for Israel —-even if Iran were to retaliate against Israel. This US public attitude is not changing, if anything it is hardening against US blood and treasure interventions and demanding diplomatic solutions. Israel and the zionist are over estimating the use of the Hitler-holocaust card — the public is grounded in ‘the present’ realites ..the US war disasters of the past decade and the cost chickens coming home to roost are much more on their minds.
    Would US politicans go against the public on Iran?..they might, some would try..but if they did it might be the last thing they were ever able to do for Israel.

    link to worldpublicopinion.org
    American Public Opposes Israel Striking Iran
    March 13, 2012
    If Israel and Iran Have Military Conflict,
    Americans Say US Should Stay Out
    Full report(PDF)
    Questionnaire with Findings (PDF)
    A new poll finds that only one in four Americans favors Israel conducting a military strike against Iran’s nuclear program. Seven in ten (69%) favor the US and other major powers continuing to pursue negotiations with Iran, a position that is supported by majorities of Republicans (58%), Democrats (79%) and Independents (67%).
    Consistent with this emphasis on a diplomatic approach, three in four say that the US should primarily act through the UN Security Council rather than acting by itself in dealing with the problem of Iran’s nuclear program.
    If Israel goes ahead with a military strike against Iran’s nuclear program and Iran retaliates, but not against American targets, only 25% favor the US providing military forces if Israel requests them (though support is a bit higher among Republicans at 41%). Another 14% favors the US providing diplomatic support only.
    Few (6%) would support open opposition. The most popular position is for the US to take a neutral stance, which is supported by 49%, including 27% who would also favor active efforts to end the hostilities and 22% who think the US should simply not get involved.’

  9. HarryLaw
    September 23, 2013, 4:24 pm

    If only O’Bumbler could tell Kristol what the Duke of Gloucester said to Hastings “Tellest thou me of ‘ifs’? Thou art a traitor:
    Off with his head! Now, by Saint Paul I swear,
    I will not dine until I see the same.
    Lovel and Ratcliff, look that it be done:
    The rest, that love me, rise and follow me”.SCENE IV. The Tower of London.Richard the third.

    • James Canning
      September 23, 2013, 6:17 pm

      One wonders how much Kristol actually knows about Richard III. Has Kristol been to Middleham? Not likely.

  10. Clif Brown
    September 23, 2013, 4:41 pm

    I heartily recommend the book, “Wrapped in the Flag” to all MW readers as a spotlight on how people can be so obsessed that there is no reality beyond their own rigid thinking. Thinking is never modified by experience, rather experience is merely a continual confirmation of unalterable thought. Though this book deals with the John Birch Society and not rabid Zionism, the parallels are striking, in particular the righteous victim/”they are out to get us!” view.

  11. Justpassingby
    September 23, 2013, 4:50 pm

    What are these people doing in america?

  12. ritzl
    September 23, 2013, 4:58 pm

    Kristol’s corollary* to Godwin’s Law?

    *If I’m [Kristol] involved in a conversation the chances I call someone/anyone Hitler are 100%.

    • Hostage
      September 23, 2013, 7:48 pm

      If I’m [Kristol] involved in a conversation the chances I call someone/anyone Hitler are 100%.

      It’s just his ignorance of history or lack of self-awareness. Let’s face it, the Zionist Organization and Jewish Agency beat everyone else to the punch when they eagerly signed their own agreement on appeasement and the terms of partnership with the Hitler’s Third Reich in 1933.

      Likewise, in the post WWII-era, Israel and its allies have routinely demanded appeasement and acquiescence to their conquests and wars of aggression more often than any other states. If Hitler learned lessons from international hesitation in the aftermath of Mousillini’s invasion of Ethiopia, what should Assad conclude from Israel’s annexation of the Golan and the failure to enforce the international boundary or UN SC resolutions 242 and 338?

      There has been no analogous foreign aggression on the part of Iran.

      • hophmi
        September 24, 2013, 10:27 am

        “Let’s face it, the Zionist Organization and Jewish Agency beat everyone else to the punch when they eagerly signed their own agreement on appeasement and the terms of partnership with the Hitler’s Third Reich in 1933.”

        Let’s face it: Hostage is a big fat liar. Not only is this a myth discredited by the author of the seminal book on the subject, but even if this lie were true, Germany in 1933 was not Germany in 1938, when Britain appeased a Hitler who had already invaded other countries.

      • Shingo
        September 25, 2013, 4:51 am

        Not only is this a myth discredited by the author of the seminal book on the subject, but even if this lie were true, Germany in 1933 was not Germany in 1938, when Britain appeased a Hitler who had already invaded other countries.

        No it has not been debunked by the author, who as Hostage has pointed out, was not the only writer on the subject, and the others have not debunked it.

        Let’s face it Hop, the big fat liar is you.

        Germany in 1933 was not Germany in 1938

        Anti semitism was already rife in Germany in 1933, so the direction it was headed was pretty clear.

      • Hostage
        September 25, 2013, 5:03 am

        Let’s face it: Hostage is a big fat liar. Not only is this a myth discredited by the author of the seminal book on the subject, but even if this lie were true, Germany in 1933 was not Germany in 1938,

        Bullshit. I’ve debunked your lies on that subject in the past.
        link to mondoweiss.net

        Nothing Edwin Black or any other author ever wrote on the subject of the Haavara agreement can discredit the fact that the Zionist Organization was Hitler’s business partner and that the capital transfer scheme hatched by the two parties was a form of appeasement that allayed German fears and undermined the effectiveness of the worldwide Jewish boycott. Black concedes that in his article “Adolf Hitler: Could We Have Stopped Hitler?”.
        link to jewishvirtuallibrary.org

        By 1933 everybody knew about the Nazis plans to intern the Jews and their adversaries in concentration camps and to literally starve them. those plans had already been published in the daily papers in Germany long before the Nazis ever came to power. That was the motive for the Worldwide Jewish Boycott. By that time, the FRUS was already reporting that prisoners were being shot trying to escape. Here is a snippet from the JTA archives of the era: “Jews to Be Starved out if Hitlerists Come to Power: Boxheim Documents Were Authentic Official Statement.” Jewish Telegraphic Agency 25 Apr 1932:

        An official statement has been issued here to-day declaring that the recent police search in the Hitlerist headquarters at Munich has provided documentary proof that, not-withstanding the denials made at the time by Hitler and the other leaders of the Nazi Party, the so-called Boxheim documents were authentic and that the Nazi Party leaders had given their approval to the plans laid down in them for dealing with the Jews, who were to be starved out by being refused food cards, when the Hitlerist regime came into power and made it impossible for food to be obtained other than by food-cards.

        link to archive.jta.org

        The report in the FRUS about the internment camps also noted that the Boxheim plans dealt with both Jews and others:

        A foreign news agency reported about two weeks ago that there are about 100,000 political prisoners in German concentration camps. This was promptly denied in an official Prussian statement which gave the total number of political prisoners in Germany at 18,000, and in Prussia alone, 12,000.
        The wholesale arrests of political opponents since the burning of the Reichstag and the daily announcements of new arrests in conjunction with the “second revolutionary wave,” which set in about the middle of June and which is now supposed to be at an end, would seem to indicate that the actual number of political prisoners is far in excess of the official figures. . . . About a week ago it was reported in the press that the body of Dr. Schaeffer, a former Nazi, who was responsible for the disclosure of the notorious Boxheim documents which revealed the ruthless measures which the Nazis were planning against Jews and political opponents upon their accession to power (see despatch No. 1312 of December 1, 1931 51 ), was found on a railroad track near Frankfort. Dr. Schaeffer was apparently shot by former party colleagues who then threw his body from a bridge to the railroad tracks, about fifty feet below.

        link to digicoll.library.wisc.edu

      • MHughes976
        September 25, 2013, 5:24 am

        Many of us here think of Hostage as a particularly copious source of truth, common sense and logic.

      • yrn
        September 25, 2013, 7:47 am

        MHughes976

        That’s your problem, Hostage renews cut and paste info that fits his personal Agenda and personal family stories.
        instead use your own skills and get your own personal common sense and logic knowledge .

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 25, 2013, 12:12 pm

        “Germany in 1933 was not Germany in 1938, when Britain appeased a Hitler who had already invaded other countries.”

        Then your defense of Kristol is full of crap, because Germany of 1936 was not Germany of 1938, either.

      • Hostage
        September 25, 2013, 2:30 pm

        That’s your problem, Hostage renews cut and paste info that fits his personal Agenda and personal family stories.

        No I provide verbatim copies and links to the official historical documentary sources and international court rulings that disprove the founding myths of the Zionist movement. It’s not my fault that you dimwits keep repeating the same lies and propaganda.

      • hophmi
        September 25, 2013, 3:41 pm

        No Hostage, you provide out of context quotes in great volume and depend on people here not to check them. That’s what you do, and you’re very good at it. Because when I have time to check them, they’re inevitably distorted in some way, or reflect some structural bias that you don’t bother to reveal, like that time you cited that online Holocaust denial text that some Palestinian professor wrote as a source of Yishuv attacks on Muslim and Christian targets.

      • Hostage
        September 26, 2013, 2:18 am

        No Hostage, you provide out of context quotes in great volume and depend on people here not to check them.

        You provide bullshit in great volume and never supply any links to backup your nonsensical claims Hoppy. I always provide links that allow anyone to read and decide for themselves. That’s why you’ve never been too successful pressing that argument.

        Why don’t you explain how I could possibly be quoting the passages from the JTA archives and the FRUS on Hitler’s plans for the Jews in the Boxheim documents “out of context”? He did use internment in concentration camps to starve and exterminate those he targeted and there were already thousands of such prisoners who had disappeared by the end of 1933. The worldwide Anti-Nazi Boycott was triggered by a wave of violence against the Jews that started that year according to the Jewish Virtual Library:
        link to jewishvirtuallibrary.org

        or reflect some structural bias that you don’t bother to reveal, like that time you cited that online Holocaust denial text that some Palestinian professor wrote as a source of Yishuv attacks on Muslim and Christian targets.

        I remember you trying to unsuccessfully make claims to that effect. But as usual, you were always long on allegations and hot air and very short on real evidence. As I recall, you made a rather offensive claim that the religious beliefs of the victims of the Holocaust regarding the 3 Oaths have somehow been “discredited” and deliberately mischaracterized the advice given by the sages on that subject.
        * link to mondoweiss.net
        * link to mondoweiss.net

  13. pabelmont
    September 23, 2013, 5:59 pm

    Strategically, KRISTOL goes out on a limb (unless he is widely seen as residing there already, of course). Suppose he “loses” on this — that Obama continues blissfully his diplomacy (and sanctions, never forget sanctions — we may need them for Israel (to force removal of settlers or inspection for Nukes or whatnot). Then AIPAC and its friends and fellow-travellers will have tried twice and failed twice and been seen as “mad bombers”, “war mongers”, etc., and ALSO as powerless in their biggest endeavors.

    Goody (unless Obama flips).

  14. Bandolero
    September 23, 2013, 6:05 pm

    I think Kristol is right that Israel didn’t exist during the time of Nazi Germany. However, there already existed at that time a zionist movement. In Germany, it was called ZVfD. And as Hitler came to power, it reacted very strongly.

    Lenni Brenner writes about it in “Zionism in the age of the dictators:”

    The London proceedings were typical of all further ZVfD behaviour. In 1937, after leaving Berlin for America, rabbi Joachim Prinz wrote of his experiences in Germany and alluded to a memorandum which, it is now known, was sent to the Nazi Party by the ZVfD on 21 June 1933. Prinz’s article candidly describes the Zionist mood in the first months of 1933:
    Everyone in Germany knew that only the Zionists could responsibly represent the Jews in dealings with the Nazi government. We all felt sure that one day the government would arrange a round table conference with the Jews, at which –after the riots and atrocities of the revolution had passed– the new status of German Jewry could be considered. The government announced very solemnly that there was no country in the world which tried to solve the Jewish problem as seriously as did Germany. Solution of the Jewish question? It was our Zionist dream! We never denied the existence of the Jewish question! Dissimilation? It was our own appeal!… In a statement notable for its pride and dignity, we called for a conference.[(8)] (Source)

    So perhaps, instead of critizing Zionists like Kristol for using Hitler comparisons to build up public opinion for a war of aggression in a similar way Goebbels did it before the German “intervention” in Poland 1939, we may better give Kristol credit for not prasing Hitler and the Nazis anymore like the German Zionists did it in 1933?

    Though, what I still wait for is that Zionism disavows the idea of “dissimilation” and emigration to Palestine as the solution for western racism, namely the so-called “Jewish question”.

  15. DICKERSON3870
    September 23, 2013, 6:11 pm

    RE: Notice Kristol’s extended and repeated Hitler analogies, the characterization of Obama as an appeaser who will leave the U.S. to be eaten by locusts . . . and the heroic description of Israel as “for now the leader of the West” because it will act against Iran. . . not all Jews are Zionist . . . Zionism calls on tribal and paranoid elements inside the Jewish community . . . ~ Weiss

    SEE: “Israel’s Defense Chief OK’s Hundreds of Israeli Deaths”, By Ira Chernus, CommonDreams.org, 11/11/11

    [EXCERPT] . . . An essential motive of Zionism from its beginning was a fierce desire to end the centuries of Jewish weakness, to show the world that Jews would no longer be pushed around, that they’d fight back and prove themselves tougher than their enemies. There was more to Zionism than that. But the “pride through strength” piece came to dominate the whole project. Hence the massive Israeli military machine with its nuclear arsenal.
    But you can’t prove that you’re stronger than your enemies unless you’ve also got enemies — or at least believe you’ve got enemies — to fight against. So there has to be a myth of Israel’s insecurity, fueled by an image of vicious anti-semites lurking somewhere out there, for Zionism to work. Since the 1979 Iranian revolution, Iran has gradually risen to the top of Israel oh-so-necessary enemies list. Iranophobia is rampant in Israel, as one Israeli scholar writes, because “Israel needs an existential threat.”
    Anyone who has grown up in Israel, or in the U.S. Jewish community (as I did), and paid attention knows all this. . .

    ENTIRE COMMENTARY – link to commondreams.org

    P.S. ALSO SEE – “Iranophobia: The Panic of the Hegemons”, by Ira Chernus, Tikkun Magazine, November/December 2010
    LINK – link to tikkun.org

    • DICKERSON3870
      September 23, 2013, 6:17 pm

      P.P.S. RE: “. . . not all Jews are Zionist . . . Zionism calls on tribal and paranoid elements inside the Jewish community . . .” ~ Weiss

      SEE: “Injustice Collecting”, By Nando Pelusi, Ph.D., psychologytoday.com, published on November 01, 2006
      You can’t let go of a grudge, says Nando Pelusi, Ph.D., because there are deep-seated emotional payoffs.

      [EXCERPTS] We have a complicated relationship with the grudges we hold. We get obsessed and aggravated by the many slights [not to mention far more grievous victimization - J.L.D.] that befall us, but we’re ever reluctant to bury our pain and move on. Like an illicit affair, our beloved grudges usually end up creating misery for all involved.
      The tendency to itemize every unfair knock we’ve ever suffered is known as injustice collecting. Sometimes the injustices are personal, as in, “My boss unfairly promoted Rick over me.” This kind of self-talk leads to anger. At other times, the catalogued outrages lead to overwrought generalizations, such as, “Nothing ever goes well; this is too unfair.” This type of thinking leads to hopelessness and rage.
      Enough grudge holding and soon you’ll see more iniquity than actually exists. The injustice collector becomes a trigger-happy perceiver. If you walk down the street recounting the affronts you’ve suffered lately, you’ll kick up quite a cloud of dejection.
      Injustice collecting springs from a sensible motive: the monitoring of fairness as a form of self-protection, an impulse that evolved among social creatures who depended on one another. Nursing grudges may have raised our odds of survival and reproduction, however unconsciously. . .
      . . . But injustice collecting is about more than just resentment toward cheaters; just as often, it’s resentment on a mass scale—about anger at the very order of the universe. If a tree falls on a school bus or an earthquake levels our home, we’re stricken by the absolute injustice of it all. Islamist radicals, for example, resent the West’s development, and many are willing to die for their version of justice.
      Self-pity plus religious outrage—a combination that fuels suicide bombers—might also be a cognitive virus, replicating itself because humans are so easily attuned to believing in absolute justice.
      Fairness is a desirable abstraction, and one we’d better reach for, but it is not a concrete measurement, however much we might wish the courts, God, or the Constitution to decree it. . .

      ENTIRE ARTICLE – link to psychologytoday.com

  16. James Canning
    September 23, 2013, 6:15 pm

    William Kristol is one of those who foolishly have blocked a restoration of normal relations between Iran and the US. For decades now.

  17. James Canning
    September 23, 2013, 6:21 pm

    Perhaps Kristol will tell us which countries Rouhani intends to annex. Iraq? Bahrain? Fat chance.

    • Annie Robbins
      September 24, 2013, 9:35 am

      iran hardly needs to annex iraq, now that we’ve… facilitated ..oh never mind. words cannot suffice.

      • James Canning
        September 25, 2013, 8:02 pm

        Bush the Liberator? Not what happened? Gosh.

  18. DICKERSON3870
    September 23, 2013, 10:03 pm

    RE: “Kristol says Obama appeases the new Hitler, Rouhani, making Israel ‘the leader of the west’”

    TAKE ACTION! ! ! TAKE ACTION! ! ! TAKE ACTION! ! !

    ● FROM AMERICANS FOR PEACE NOW
    Tell your Senators TODAY: Sign the Feinstein letter on diplomacy with Iran
    Last time it was the House; now it’s the Senate.
    Last time thousands of APN activists responded to our call to contact their elected members of the House of Representatives and urge them to sign onto a letter supporting reinvigorated U.S. diplomacy with Iran. The result was an historic letter to President Obama, signed by a bipartisan group of 131 members of Congress. Now we are reaching out to you, APN’s activists, once again. This time, we need you to contact your senators and urge them to sign the letter being circulated by Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA).
    Like its House counterpart, Senator Feinstein’s letter boils down to a simple message to President Obama, summarized in the letter’s opening paragraph: “We urge you to seize the opportunity presented by the inauguration of Iran’s new president, Dr. Hassan Rouhani, by reinvigorating diplomatic efforts to secure a verifiable agreement that ensures that Iran does not develop nuclear weapons.” We couldn’t agree more.
    Tell your Senators to support diplomacy.
    TO EMAIL YOUR SENATORS – link to wfc2.wiredforchange.com

    ● FROM FRIENDS COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL LEGISLATION (FCNL):
    Your Senators Can Seize New Iran Diplomacy
    Senator Dianne Feinstein (CA) is urging Obama to seize the opportunity presented by Iran’s election of Hassan Rouhani 
    to renew diplomatic efforts with Iran. Will you urge your senators to seize the opportunity to advance a crisis-ending deal with Iran?
    TO EMAIL YOUR SENATORS – link to capwiz.com

    ● FROM “JUST FOREIGN POLICY”
    Urge Obama: In Iran Diplomacy, Go for a Feasible Deal Now
    President Obama committed numerous times to pursuing diplomacy with Iran during the presidential campaign.
    While the U.S. and Iran are currently on a path of confrontation, the Obama Administration has reportedly drafted a confidence-building measure in which Iran would halt its 20% uranium enrichment and the West would provide fuel for Iran’s medical research reactor, which is used to treat Iranian cancer patients.
    Urge President Obama to vigorously pursue this proposal, using this form.link to org.salsalabs.com

    ● FROM Avaaz.org
    To US President Obama and President Rouhani of Iran:
    As citizens around the world horrified by the slaughter of innocents in Syria, we call on you to put aside your differences and meet to find a diplomatic path forward that brings all parties to the table to negotiate a ceasefire and peace. You are in a unique position to help broker such a solution. There must be a bold diplomatic breakthrough.
    We are calling on you to create one and start saving lives.
    TO SIGN THE PETITION – link to avaaz.org

  19. Kathleen
    September 24, 2013, 1:04 am

    Betcha Colonel Wilkerson will be adding Kristol to his “shut up” you “traitor” list

  20. radii
    September 24, 2013, 3:03 am

    go ahead, Kristol, and join the IDF and together you can “lead” but not with one dollar of U.S. money or a single U.S. weapon … stir up trouble and bloodshed and strife and misery on your own dime and with your own blood … and take the thousands of israeli-first Fifth Columnists with you that populate our think-tanks, media, lobby groups, academia … oh, and by the way, renounce your U.S. citizenship on your way over

  21. Citizen
    September 24, 2013, 3:48 am

    Apparently Kerry will definitely officially meet with his Iranian counterpart this week; Obama may or may not, unofficially (that is, by arranged spontaneous UN hallway encounter): link to weaselzippers.us

    Even this much is big doings, a slight switch from the non-diplomatic US policy since 1979–the one Netanyahu so loves. I imagine Kerry will use the chance to sling righteous rhetoric against Iran–it would be too funny if Obama subsequently met in the hall with Rohuani and contradicted Kerry (as he’s already done in public).

    • Shingo
      September 24, 2013, 8:20 pm

      Apparently Kerry will definitely officially meet with his Iranian counterpart this week;

      Expect that to end in failure. Since Kerry was appointed SOS, he has proven himself to be a lunatic.

  22. Ecru
    September 24, 2013, 4:44 am

    Anybody have a list of ALL the people Israel’s called “Hitler” over the years? Must be quite long by now.

    • seafoid
      September 24, 2013, 9:18 am

      Hitler ordered the razing of the village of Lidice in Czechosolvakia as a reprisal for the killing of senior Nazi Reinhard Heydrich. He would have understood what Israel is doing to al Araqib.

  23. justicewillprevail
    September 24, 2013, 5:40 am

    Oh no! The AIPAC sanctions have worked and Iran is willing to negotiate an agreement in order to get them lifted. What a disaster! Doh! Iran wasn’t supposed to respond, this is our narrative and they have no role to play in it. Sanctions were just the prelude to war, they were not designed to produce a result. Kristol is plainly an idiot, who should be ashamed at his own obsequious obedience to the lobby. Does he really think Israel gives a toss about useful fools like him? The incoherence of their arguments and their vainglorious attempts to relive their faulty and selective version of the 1930′s is laughable. Pompous, ignorant buffoons spreading fear, hysteria and lies.

  24. piotr
    September 24, 2013, 7:13 am

    Wikipedia: [Kristol served] as Chief of Staff to the Vice President under Dan Quayle in the George H. W. Bush administration. The New Republic dubbed Kristol “Dan Quayle’s brain” upon being appointed the Vice President’s chief of staff.

    Quayle was famously stupid. He was quoted as regretting not to know Latin during his visit to Latin America. Quayle’s brain, indeed.

    • Shingo
      September 24, 2013, 8:01 am

      Funny.

      I always remember my favorite joke about Quayle.

      What watch does Mickey Mouse wear? A Dan Quayle watch.

      Then when Bush Snr went into hospital for surgery, there was a panick that Quayle would be POTUS temporarily. A comedy skit described Dan Quayke in the White House as “Home Alone”, after the comedy.

  25. seafoid
    September 24, 2013, 7:16 am

    Netanyahu’s last election win was built around painting Iran as the new Nazis and defending the continued misallocation of funds from education and the poor to YESHA and the IDF by calling on the tired canard of SECURITY SECURITY FIRE .

    Kristol has to engage in panic mode because he’s covering Bibi’s ass.

  26. bilal a
    September 24, 2013, 9:50 am

    Meanwhile there’s an Israeli connection to the Kenyan presence in Somalia?:

    UPDATE 2: Israeli forces join Kenya battle to end deadly mall siege

    Israeli interests in Kenya have come under attack before [Was this an Israeli owned mall?] . In November 2002 there were two simultaneous attacks in the Mombasa area. A missile targeted an Israeli charter flight as it took off from the port city’s airport, but missed

    link to english.ahram.org.eg

  27. MichaelRivero
    September 24, 2013, 9:58 am

    Let Israel act against Iran. But we know that Israel, despite all the weapons the US gives them and their nuclear arsenal, are too cowardly to fight their own wars. They want Americans to die fighting Israel’s enemies. They always have. They always will. and it is a failed plan because Israel is making enemies faster than Americans can kill them.

    As for Kristol and everyone else pushing for war with Iran…

    Here’s your rifle. Here’s your parachute. We ran out of the desert camo but here is a bright orange jumpsuit left over from Gitmo. Watch your head climbing into that transport and we’ll call Iran and tell them you are on your way to kick their butts all by yourself. Because after those whoppers you told us about Iraq’s nuclear weapons and Assad gassing his own Alawite supporters right in front of the UN chemical weapons inspectors, you will forgive We The People if we sit this one out and keep our kids safe at home.

  28. kalithea
    September 24, 2013, 11:12 am

    Obama’s speech at the U.N is rife with double-standards, hubris, OUTRIGHT LIES, “our interests, our interests, our interests…blah, blah, blah. Uh… look over there at Syria’s CWs, look over there at Iran’s nuclear program, BUT! don’t you dare look at Israel’s hundreds of nukes; don’t look at their abuse of Palestinians’ human rights; don’t look at the war crimes of Cast Lead and don’t look at the crime against humanity of depriving Gaza of their humanity and rights with the longest, most brutal blockade EVER! Pretend you don’t see ’cause they’re our friends and our interests require that we discriminate as to which people can have their rights…blah.

    To summarize Obama’s speech: I SPEAK WITH FORKED ZIONIST TONGUE.

    Oh and so Obama’s going to inflict Kerry on Rouhani instead of speaking to him himself…my advice to Rouhani: don’t let him diminish your position, send your foreign relations minister to listen to Kerry’s arrogant drivel, if he can bear it.

    And here’s something really amusing, Zakaria, Obama’s one-man cheerleading squad, stated something to this effect: that if Obama gets the Iranians to back off uranium enrichment and gets a 2-state solution going; he’ll really deserve the Nobel Prize…

    My reply to that: Oh Lord! : Ahhh, shut up…Fareed Zakaria! Delusional doesn’t cover it.

  29. jaime1007
    September 25, 2013, 1:09 am

    It is amazing that Kristol all togherter and without remorse forgets the Chamberlain trope! just to mention, out of the cuff, Czechoslovakia. Is this guy going senile?

Leave a Reply