Young Israeli Jews want an attack on Syria, but older ones say Obama missed his chance

Israel/Palestine
on 120 Comments

The only Israelis who want the U.S. to attack Syria are young Jews. They are militant. But their parents say Obama missed his chance and nothing will be gained by attacking Syria. They are angry with Obama for confusing the matter of red lines when it comes to Iran’s nuclear program, but they are also upset with the Israel lobby for pushing a war when they are the ones who have to get gasmasks.

I observed these attitudes in interviews with a dozen Jewish Israelis in Jerusalem the day before Yom Kippur.

The young people are frightening. They are far more rightwing and militant than their elders.

“Obama knows what he needs to do. He needs to stop talking and start doing. How he can sleep at night when they are killing kids,” said a 20-year-old soldier wearing a yarmulke and sitting in Zion Square.

The soldier was not concerned about the slippery slope. “If Iran attacks Israel– they can try. And when they try, we will kick their ass. We trust God.”

Nearby, a 19-year-old waitress with thick hair who wore a tank top and described herself as firmly secular, and who said she went to a school with Muslims, was also for action. “I’m not sure about it, but I think he should take Assad out,” she said. “The people I work with agree.”

We often hear about the growing intolerance in Israeli society. These young people’s attitudes are symptomatic. There isn’t a peacenik to be found. Some of their attitudes seem as narrow as North Koreans’.

“All the young people are less afraid of war than the older people,” said Shoham, 17, seated in the pedestrian mall on Ben Yehuda Street.

“The younger people have fire in their eyes and want to do their ideals,” said her friend Matanya, 19, wearing a black tshirt for the unit he wants to join in the army. “There was a guy named Roosevelt who said to walk around with a big stick and not talk loudly. Obama he talks loudly and doesn’t have a stick. It seems like a joke.”

The older people I met showed much more restraint.

“I don’t know any Israelis who are cheering on Obama to strike,” said a 59-year-old mother of three who moved to Israel from the States in 1996. “Especially up north, the feeling is that it’s none of our business. Neither side is wonderful. As Netanyahu says, Iran is the red line. Syria is the mess. If Obama was going to get involved, it would have been best two years ago.”

She said Israelis are mad at the Israel lobby for pushing war. “Everyone’s mad at AIPAC for that. Because we’re the ones who are going to pay.”

Amiel Vardi, a scholar and anti-occupation activist whom I interviewed at the weekly Sheikh Jarrah demonstration Friday, agreed that the mother of three reflected mainstream Israeli Jewish public opinion. The time for an attack has passed. Just two weeks ago Israelis were mostly for an attack on Syria, he says. But they are extremely sensitive to American public opinion, and they have taken the Obama nod to Congress as a signal. In the last week, mass opinion has become: it is easy to start a conflict but hard to end one.

I spoke to two middle-aged people who reflected this shifting pattern. Yeheskel, 45, and Sarah, 37, are rightwingers who wanted Obama to act. But they said that he had missed his chance; and the time for a strike was over. Besides, they said, an attack on Syria would only have symbolic benefits: showing Iran who is boss.

“A token strike– I don’t think it would have done very much at all,” Yeheskel said. “But what happened to Obama? He is weak. He is afraid. And now all the world sees, also Iran– they are not afraid of America.”

Sarah said, “It shows to Israel, we have no one to trust. How are we going to stop Iran? Israel is representing the whole world against Iran.”

Yeheskel said a political resolution of the Syrian conflict would only empower Assad and Hamas and Iran.

And he said that Obama’s failure on Syria was a symptom of the American public’s retreat from Israel. “If you look at Google comments, America says, we’re fighting in Iraq for Israel, and Iran for Israel. If it wasn’t for Israel, there would be peace. You couldn’t say so many things about Israel and Jews ten years ago.”

I also spoke with several Palestinians about Syria. They were all against American intervention. A 65-year-old shopkeeper in the Old City was angry.

“It is a war against Islam. In Yemen, in Iraq, in Pakistan, in Afghanistan, in Chechnya, and in Syria. It is another Crusade. Is that what Obama wants?”

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

Other posts by .


Posted In:

120 Responses

  1. just
    September 14, 2013, 6:05 am

    Thank you Phil.

    How very dispiriting in general. I hope Aipac is listening. The shopkeeper’s observation about another Crusade is pretty much on the money, imho.

    I hear this a lot– “It shows to Israel, we have no one to trust. How are we going to stop Iran? Israel is representing the whole world against Iran.”

    I guess Netanyahu’s obsessive paranoia with Iran has managed to infect many folks. A shame.

    • Citizen
      September 14, 2013, 7:02 am

      Yes, thanks Phil; keep bringing us up to date on the temper in Inside Israel.
      Re: ” Israel is representing the whole world against Iran.” This is a form of solipsism . I recall that in imperial Japan, Japan was depicted as located in the center of the world. Who knew “the whole world” was against Iran? And that Israel represents the whole world? Last time I read world polls, Iran, N Korea, and Israel were deemed to be the biggest threats to the world as a whole. Two of these three states have war nuke stockpiles, and only one has a persistent record of war aggression (always broadcast as “defensive” or “preemptive” or “preventive.” Israel.

      The young are always less afraid of war. Reminds me of the scene in the movie Cabaret, at the rural beer lodge, when the young, idealistic Hitlerjugend sings Tomorrow Belongs To Me; it’s the young who rise up to join him first, then the middle aged; at last the whole crowd is singing–except one old guy, old enough to have been in WW1–he won’t get up and sing, we are left to surmise, because he actually knows what war is after the zealous slogans meet reality.

    • K Renner
      September 15, 2013, 7:24 pm

      ” How very dispiriting in general. I hope Aipac is listening. The shopkeeper’s observation about another Crusade is pretty much on the money, imho. ”

      But not against Islam unless you consider Al Qaeda to be the definition of Islam– in which case, you’d be in the right-wing Israeli camp.

      I would imagine the shopkeeper interviewed is going on more in the way of the American tendency to cause massive collateral damage and to uproot societal stability (albeit in Afghanistan, which was mostly controlled and turned into a wahhabist shithole by the Taliban, with free areas in the north), because the people they are fighting in the de jure sense are all scumbags: Al Qaeda in Yemen, the Afghan and Pakistani variants of the Taliban, Al Qaeda in Iraq, and probably soon Al Nusra in Syria.

      The new guys in the “Wahhabi Emirate” groups in Dagestan and in Chechnya are essentially foreign and unwanted implants and totally antithetical to Islam as practised in Chechnya or Dagestan (or anywhere else except Wahhabi-land).

      A shame that all Chechens are now associated with the Wahhabi/takfiri swine– considering that the vast majority of the resistance and the leaders, especially during the first war, were decent people and their reputation has been smeared by the implants.

      I apologize for the rant, but the supposed (and I’m the first to agree that America has many ulterior motives) goal of eliminating the black flag takfirist/wahhabist groups and the Taliban is not ignoble, and is not “a war on Islam”.
      Especially considering the vast majority of the people who have been fighting these savages are themselves Muslim, and consider it their duty, for any number of reasons, to get rid of the stain that is the takfiri and the Taliban.

  2. Krauss
    September 14, 2013, 6:48 am

    All the young people are less afraid of war than the older people

    That’s because each war Israel has engaged with has netted lower and lower casualties.
    Also, the involvement of America in Israel’s military affairs have increased(primarily as deterrance but also aid).

    In short; they’re chicken hawks. Israel doesn’t commit ground troops unless it’s a soft target like Gaza and they make a ton of bombing rounds first.
    This is a process all developed nations go through, as people’s lives become more comfortable.
    The political price you pay for casualties gets higher and higher, so when these young people think war, they think Gaza 2009. A mostly one-sided affair. Even Lebanon in 2006 had strong one-sided casualty rates but the fact that that war was seen as a ‘disaster’ was a sign of just how low tolerance the Israeli public was willing to sacrifice its soldiers.

    So why the hawkishness? Because it’s America that will stand for the attack, not them. They’re basically overentitled little dipshits.

    What can happen in a counter-attack on Israel? Not much.
    Iran has defensive capabilities but hardly any offensive capabilites. Israel won’t be caught blindsided by Hezbollah again and IAF smokes anything that the Iranian airforce can throw at them, plus you got the Iron Dome now.

    The older generation remembers the days when Israel could actually lose a war, which nearly happened in 1973 if it wasn’t for America stepping in. The young have seen the apartheid wall go up and the might of the IDF/IAF being the region’s dominant power, surpassing that even of Iran if it would be fully mobilized.

    But to go back to their entitlement: how do we explain it?
    Well, they are so used to America going to war in their own interests they now expect it as default. What would happened if they were cut off from this parasitical ‘relationship’? I’d love to see the sheer panic.
    Of course, they’d find that Israel would be fine regardless but they wouldn’t be so sure about invading when it would be their own troops and lives on the line in an attack on Syria.

    More than racism/militarism, your findings show shocking amount of entitlement from people being coddled by the work of AIPAC for so long that they now expect America to be Israel’s mercenary, to be called at the behest of AIPAC’s lobbyists, which it to a remarkable extent has been these past 15 years. We’ll see if it’ll continue or if America will break the parasites off its back.

    • Walid
      September 14, 2013, 10:23 am

      “Iran has defensive capabilities but hardly any offensive capabilites. Israel won’t be caught blindsided by Hezbollah again and IAF smokes anything that the Iranian airforce can throw at them, plus you got the Iron Dome now.”

      Krauss, unless you’re quoting Hophmi, you’re looking at the picture from the wrong end of the telescope. Iran has no intention of attacking anyone and would react only to defend itself. Israel was not blindsided by anything other than its stupidity and over-confidence when it attacked Lebanon in 2006 and that silly “paper-dome” as someone has already called it, I think it was Abu-Khalil, you saw that its success rate is less than 25%.

      On a more serious note, it seems that Hizbullah has the same problem with its young ones that are over-eager to cross the border and take on the IDF in Israel proper rather than wait for it to attack in Lebanon, but Nasrallah has been keeping control on them for years because he is the one to decide when the time is right. The white-turbaned number 2 man in the organization is the impatient one Israelis should be really worried about, not Nasrallah. The problem with the over eager young Israelis is that they cut their teeth on beating up unarmed Palestinian men and stone-throwing women and children and have never had to face others on equal terms. That’s what happened in 2006 when the young IDF soldiers had to face real men in Lebanon for the first time in their lives. I suspect today’s young Israelis are not better prepared either because they too have been busy beating up on women and children. It’s one thing to terrorize villages from an F16 that’s 50,000 feet up in the air and another to come face to face with a Hizbullah fighter on the ground.

      • bilal a
        September 14, 2013, 2:11 pm

        If you took away ‘indirect fire’ ,long range sniper rifles, brought it back to swords, what would the world map look like? I’m not convinced a young Middle East North Africa would be merciful in victory.

        Meanwhile Dan Amir at ‘New York’ mag, after ‘If Yom Kippur Were the Hunger Games; is defending the Afghan General famous for being an AIPAC water carrier, Gen Petraeus:

        David Petraeus Is Getting Bullied at School
        “A scene from David Petraeus’s first day of teaching at CUNY: students following him down the street and through traffic, screaming in his face and calling him a “war criminal,” a “scumbag,” and a “piece of shit.” Ironically, this war criminal piece of shit ….”

        [got 150k to teach one course at cuny?].
        link to nymag.com

        [but] “comes across better than anyone else in the video.”.

        from comments:

        mollysgaga
        A 15-month investigation by the Guardian and BBC Arabic reveals how US colonel James Steele, a veteran of American proxy wars in El Salvador and Nicaragua, played a key role in training and overseeing US-funded special police commandos who ran a network of torture centres in Iraq. Another special forces veteran, retired Colonel James Coffman, worked with Steele and reported directly to General David Petraeus, who had been sent into Iraq to organise the Iraqi security services

        BasketWeaver
        I assume those are de Blasio voters.

      • Citizen
        September 14, 2013, 6:31 pm

        Effective Israel strike on Iran depends on going over undefended Iraqi airspace and/or getting more air fuel supply aircraft from USA: link to usatoday30.usatoday.com

    • Annie Robbins
      September 14, 2013, 10:40 am

      IAF smokes anything that the Iranian airforce can throw at them

      what about iranian anti aircraft capability?

      • Citizen
        September 14, 2013, 5:49 pm

        @ Annie Robbins
        Here’s a brief summary assessment of Iran’s military capabilities, including its air force, if it has to fight the US: link to globalresearch.ca

      • Citizen
        September 14, 2013, 6:06 pm

        It appears the latest fighter jet Syria has is the Mig 29, which is about a match for an F-15. Note in that article I linked to that Iran has long has a “no first strike” policy, which is exactly opposite to Israel often demonstrated first strike policy (preventive/preemptive war), which is why Iran has not attacked anyone first in modern history. Interesting that our mainstream news never mentions this, nor do they mention Israel’s penchant to strike first (arguably in every war Israel has been in except in ’73 where the US saved Israel’s ass).

      • Citizen
        September 14, 2013, 6:11 pm

        Iran apparently has a new anti-aircraft system: link to freebeacon.com

        Here’s Wikipedia’s technical take on Iran’s air defense system: link to en.wikipedia.org

      • Citizen
        September 14, 2013, 6:51 pm

        Looks like Russia just sold Iran the S-300 anti-aircraft missile system, something it was originally going to do three years ago: link to jpost.com
        This is a strong and wide-ranging system–it will definitely make Israel think twice about attacking Iran on its own. The deal was to have closed yesterday.
        The deal also included sale of a new nuclear reactor to Iran. Russia was going to sell the S-300 system to Assad too, but Assad didn’t have the cash to pay for it.

      • Taxi
        September 15, 2013, 3:19 am

        Russia Has Equipped Syria With Their Most Advanced Anti-Ship Missiles:
        link to informationclearinghouse.info

    • RudyM
      September 14, 2013, 1:04 pm

      The Iron Dome is not all it’s cracked up to be:

      link to richardsilverstein.com
      link to richardsilverstein.com

  3. Krauss
    September 14, 2013, 6:56 am

    Couldn’t resist:

    Israel is representing the whole world against Iran.

    I wonder how common this sentiment is. I’d wager it’s probably pretty common.
    These people actually believe their own lies. The Syria conflict is mostly a proxy battle between Iran and Israel with their patrons(Russia for Iran/Syria and USA for Israel) on either side of the issue.

    If America had cared for chemical weapons, where was it on Falluja in 2004? Where was it on Cast Lead in 2009?

    Israel: slam America but keep leeching off its back.
    If they feel so strongly about doing airstrikes, they have the capability.
    But of course the parasite won’t do that.

  4. flyod
    September 14, 2013, 7:49 am

    some advice for the youth;

    do your own fighting (and pay for your own weapons)

  5. AppleFolsom
    September 14, 2013, 8:22 am

    “‘I don’t know any Israelis who are cheering on Obama to strike,’ said a 59-year-old mother of three who moved to Israel from the States in 1996.”

    As frustrated as I am with U.S. leaders and the Israeli Lobby for the “might makes right” path of destruction they both leave in their wakes, I do feel sympathy for the Israeli families who obviously simply desire peace in order to raise their families.

    • Taxi
      September 14, 2013, 10:48 am

      Israelis will never have peace, for obvious reasons. If American jews “desire peace in order to raise their families”, then perhaps they shouldn’t live as colonialists on someone else’ land, and should stay living in peaceful-time America.

      • bilal a
        September 14, 2013, 2:18 pm

        Yes, most Israelis didnt choose to be born on someone elses stolen land, anymore than most Americans did, but some brooklyn settler embarking on a trip to colonize Palestine , he or she can’t be unaware of what they are doing, unless the zionist bubble is so profound a cult as to be incomprehensible.

        But what if they know and choose to settle terrorize ethnic cleanse anyway, what kind of ideology promotes this way of being human?

    • jon s
      September 14, 2013, 2:20 pm

      Many people in Israel – including myself – didn’t want a strike on Syria and are relieved that it appears to have been averted.
      I’m no fan of Netanyahu, but in fairness it should be pointed out that he had been trying to keep Israel uninvolved in Syria, and agreed to mobilize AIPAC only under pressure from President Obama, and reluctantly.
      For many of us who are old enough, today was a day to remember that Yom Kippur of 40 years ago, and remind ourselves of the horror of war.

      • seafoid
        September 14, 2013, 4:10 pm

        Most israeli kids are less curious and less educated and less encouraged to think independently than you, jon. That was the price of Yesha.

      • talknic
        September 14, 2013, 9:33 pm

        jon s

        “Many people in Israel – including myself – didn’t want a strike on Syria and are relieved that it appears to have been averted”

        Too late… Israel illegally struck Syria in 1967, 1973, 2007, 2013. UNSC res 242 demanded “Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force”

        “I’m no fan of Netanyahu, but in fairness it should be pointed out that he had been trying to keep Israel uninvolved in Syria”

        Uh? The Golan is Syrian territory. Until Israel withdraws and stops disrespecting the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force, Israel IS involved in Syria.

        “… agreed to mobilize AIPAC only under pressure from President Obama, and reluctantly”

        You should know by now MW is not a place where you can play broken propaganda records. AIPAC has never stopped lobbying.

    • Mndwss
      September 14, 2013, 3:36 pm

      ” I do feel sympathy for the Israeli families who obviously simply desire peace in order to raise their families.”

      Do you feel sympathy for the Syrian families?

    • just
      September 14, 2013, 5:27 pm

      “I do feel sympathy for the Israeli families who obviously simply desire peace in order to raise their families.”

      What about Palestinian families who have been denied peace by Israel? Why do these Israeli families from America not force their government to make a just and lasting peace with Palestinians first, and their neighbors as well.

    • ziusudra
      September 15, 2013, 2:34 am

      Greetings Apple Folsom,
      … I do feel sympathy for the Israeli families who obviously desire peace in order to raise their families……
      We remember the families in lock up in the Warsaw Ghetto?
      We remember the 1.7 mill Gazans in lock up in the Gazan Ghetto?
      Psst, fill in the dotted lines,
      I feel …………… for the ………… families in Gaza.
      ziusudra

    • Ecru
      September 15, 2013, 4:24 am

      Do you also feel sympathy for the Palestinian families who just want to get on with their lives? Something they find much more difficult than Israeli Jews who don’t have to do everything with a jackboot pressing down on their necks.

  6. a blah chick
    September 14, 2013, 8:46 am

    “Some of their attitudes seem as narrow as North Koreans.”

    In tepid defense of the young’uns but they have had, by this point, ten or twelve years of having Jabotinsky beaten into their little heads while attending segregated schools in a segregated towns in a segregated country.

    “Obama knows what he needs to do. He needs to stop talking and start doing. How he can sleep at night when they are killing kids..”

    He’s talking about Cast Lead, right?

    I’m beginning to think that that country is beyond help,

  7. iResistDe4iAm
    September 14, 2013, 9:21 am

    Yeheskel, 45, and Sarah, 37, are rightwingers who wanted Obama to act. But they said that he had missed his chance; and the time for a strike was over.

    Obama hasn’t missed his chance YET; and the time for a strike is NOT over.
    After relying on US financial, diplomatic and military aid for decades, perhaps Israelis can give something back…

    Help Kickstart World War III! (Satire by The Second City Network)
    “President Obama needs your help starting World War III! Find out how you can help!”

  8. amigo
    September 14, 2013, 9:29 am

    “Obama knows what he needs to do. He needs to stop talking and start doing. How he can sleep at night when they are killing kids,” said a 20-year-old soldier wearing a yarmulke and sitting in Zion Square.”

    Unfettered arrogance from an idf scum who could care less about Syrian children.

    Do your own fighting cretin.

    • K Renner
      September 16, 2013, 9:12 pm

      >> Do your own fighting cretin.

      Just as easily a cretinous freak.

  9. Ramzi Jaber
    September 14, 2013, 10:08 am

    Thanks Phil. Really sad to see these young Israeli Jews think this way. So many of them seem to think that Judaism and Zionism come as one package together. The wise Jewish elders (if not the israeli government) need to educate their young about “Judaism without Zioism” since arrogance and over-extending only leads downwards.

    I just wish all religions and politics are kept separate. Religion belongs to the realm of the spiritual and the God or non-God that each of us may or may not want to believe in. Politics belongs to the other parallel universe of making people’s and humans lives better on this earth.

    May the atonement of all Jews on this most holy day of Yom Kippur be well received by God almighty.

  10. bilal a
    September 14, 2013, 10:20 am

    Dual Israeli citizenship or significant family ties should be a bar to federal employment in national security affairs and a bar to contractor security clearances as with any other country:

    Obama’s Almost First Act in Office: Spy on Americans for Israel!
    link to theamericanconservative.com

    • American
      September 14, 2013, 1:36 pm

      Saw interesting comment there:

      ‘’Another name which has disappeared down the memory hole: Shamai Leibowitz. An Israeli-American who was tasked with FBI spying on Hebrew speaking Israeli diplomats. The FBI investigation was squashed, and so he went public via a blogger. He made public the efforts Israeli diplomats were making to foment US war with Iran, and was charged under the espionage act of 1917 for revealing this.’’

      This was covered on Mondo but I somehow missed it then……
      link to mondoweiss.net

      link to en.wikipedia.org

      Shamai Kedem Leibowitz, also known as Samuel Shamai Leibowitz,[1] is an American lawyer and blogger who was convicted under the Espionage Act of 1917 for leaking information to a blogger.

      Leibowitz worked as a contract Hebrew linguist for the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI)[2] where he monitored wiretaps on the Israeli embassy in Washington, D.C.[3] According to Leibowitz, “during the course of my work I came across wrongdoings that led me to conclude this is an abuse of power and a violation of the law. I reported these violations to my superiors at the FBI who did nothing about them. Thereafter, to my great regret, I disclosed the violations to a member of the media.”[4]

      He became concerned about communications he said that he heard which suggested a potential attack on Iran by Israel[5] and alleged illegal influence-peddling by the Israeli embassy.[2] He then leaked information to Richard Silverstein who runs a blog, “Tikun Olam: Make the World a Better Place.”[5] He was convicted and sentenced to 20 months in prison.[6] The proceedings were secret and the judge did not specifically know the contents of what had been leaked.[7]

      Silverstein said that the important story was “why and how Israeli diplomats were intervening so obtrusively in US political life.”[8] Leibowitz’s grandfather was Israeli intellectual Yeshayahu Leibowitz.”

      I am against dual citizenship on general principles because while it may be nothing more than a ‘convience ‘for most duals it can lead to ‘complications’
      in other matters.
      But Leibowitz is a good example that duals arent necessarily disloyal to their country of residence. And ‘non duals” can be loyalist to another country without dual citizenship anyway.
      imo it is the responsibility of the government to examine ‘conflicts of interest’ in appointments of officials and agency heads.
      But the governing policy of the US now is to appoint and consult those ‘special interest’ conflicts that have bought their way in—-that is the gate that has to be closed.

      • ritzl
        September 14, 2013, 8:00 pm

        Thanks American.

    • ritzl
      September 14, 2013, 8:39 pm

      @bilal a I was shocked at the date of that as well. March 2009. One of the very first things he did in office. That had to come from the top, either Obama or Emanuel. Preplanned. The act of one in thrall and who thinks no one will notice. Bush didn’t even do it.

      And no one did or could notice until Snowden did his part. Greenwald has said there’s more. No wonder Obama is so vengeful on whistleblowers. God knows how much more of this kind of flagrant yet secret stuff there is to reveal.

      This Syria-induced political and media “sea change” (so overused, but apt) may well open up our political receptors to the wrongness of it all. Obama’s in deep trouble, methinks. And vastly more importantly, maybe, just maybe, his secret overreach will limit the ability of the next Pres to do it at all, let alone build on Obama’s institutionalization of the Bush executive-branch constitutional “liberties.”

      Maybe a digression, but last night on PBS Newshour, devoutly cautious “lefty” Mark Shields assertively (important) made the most un-nuanced and correct statement about the anger in US politics I’ve seen him make, maybe ever. He said there is tremendous yet unfocused anger among voters. Duh!, but from him that’s a downright revolutionary statement on a staunchly middle of the road program. Rarely happens. He cited local electoral evidence of it (Bill DeBlasio in NYC). He touted Elizabeth Warren as one poised to take advantage of it nationally. Shields was basing his assertion on economic anger, but did bring in Iraq. Interesting stuff, especially given the venue. The previously not discussed or discussable is now both, and mainstream.

      Starting at about 10′ : link to pbs.org

      Anecdotal point being, there’s a raft of issues on the table that can ally/alloy right and left. Adversarial congressional oversight may be once again a thing of the future, instead of the past – if this Syria backlash continues to have the blossoming and uniting effect it’s had on the popular will.

      FWIW.

      • Ecru
        September 15, 2013, 4:52 am

        And how long before people start to ask “why can’t this be discussed openly?” “why does the MSM not cover this?” and of course the answer will come back in the “what ethnic group is so prevalent in the media?”

        And this will be unfair, Jews DO NOT control the media (even if they are over-represented on a purely numeric basis which has other causes than a phantom conspiracy), financial considerations run the media. Unfortunately “the people” that amorphous blob the defies easy definition tend to prefer simplistic answers going on the history and so, coupled with “what ethnic group is over-represented on Wall Street?” and “what nation seems to get the USA in so many wars?” I fully expect REAL antisemitism to make a come-back and for all its wailing nobody will listen to the ADL over it because it’s simply cried wolf a thousand times too often already.

  11. fnlevit
    September 14, 2013, 12:54 pm

    What kind of a journalism is this? What kind of hollow generalisations? Go to any university or college campus in Israel and you will find great many opionions opposing any action in Syria among the young students. What is more important is that people are very much confused with what is going on in the neighbouring countries. The Arab sping is turning or actually already has become a very bloody Arab winter with Al Qaeda and Hezbollah riding the wave.

    And the comments here are really matching the level of the journalism.

    • Walid
      September 14, 2013, 4:52 pm

      “The Arab spring is turning or actually already has become a very bloody Arab winter with Al Qaeda and Hezbollah riding the wave. ”

      Your information is wrong, fnlevit, Hizbullah is Shia and as such it’s not entitled to partake in the fun and games of an “Arab Spring” that’s reserved for the exclusive enjoyment of the Sunni and their Western handlers. The only authentic “Arab Spring” to have happened was in Bahrain by the Shia majority population, but the Sunni rulers snuffed it out. Other uprisings were allowed to proceed with Western blessings though such as those in Sunni Tunisia, Sunni Libya, Sunni Egypt and by the Sunni majority of Syria. Hizbullah, except for a short recent participation in Syria to help knock out an al-Qaeda group had kept a low profile throughout the various uprisings and it did so to protect a Lebanese community of 30,000 Shia in Syria under attack by al-Qaeda, which had also promised that it was about to bring religious-cleansing fight to within Lebanon.

    • K Renner
      September 16, 2013, 9:11 pm

      >> The Arab sping is turning or actually already has become a very bloody Arab winter with Al Qaeda and Hezbollah riding the wave.

      Patently false, and it’s equally idiotic to compare the likes of Al Qaeda to Hezbollah and then to say that the two are on the same page/have even a similar ideology.

      >> And the comments here are really matching the level of the journalism.

      So, comments of better quality/relevance then yours, and better journalism then the sort you’re used to?

      • Shingo
        September 17, 2013, 1:45 am

        Patently false, and it’s equally idiotic to compare the likes of Al Qaeda to Hezbollah and then to say that the two are on the same page/have even a similar ideology.

        Very true. In fact, the ones riding the wave are AQ and Saudi Arabia, and according to Chomsky, Israel and the US to some extent too.

      • K Renner
        September 18, 2013, 10:26 am

        Well, the Arab uprisings aren’t all negative.

        Tunisia seems to be doing fairly well, despite having a small Salafi problem.

        Libya, despite dealing with unrest on a small scale, isn’t doing poorly either– and is not ruled by conservative or ultra-conservative Islamists.

        Morocco and Algeria have made democratic reforms and so haven’t seen the sort of unrest that occurred, or is occurring in other places.

        Al Qaeda and Saudi are riding the wave as far as the war in Syria is concerned– the former gets a chance to sneak in and try and use the chaos to it’s own ends, while the latter just enjoys seeing people who are anti-Saudi Arabia in the midst of political and military turmoil.

        However, the Arab risings as a whole haven’t created any sympathy for AQ, and in the case of Egypt, have made a lot more people really actively dislike the likes of the MB.

  12. seafoid
    September 14, 2013, 1:40 pm

    “Young Israel Jews want war.”
    They don’t understand war. It’ll come home at some stage.

    • Ecru
      September 15, 2013, 4:20 am

      The understand one very important thing about a war with Syria. It’ll be American (and French?) lives on the line, not Israeli ones. It’ll be American munitions that need paying for, not Israeli ones. It’ll be the USA’s domestic economy that pays the price, Israels money won’t be touched thanks to Fifth Columnists in the USA and their bought and paid for Congress.

  13. seafoid
    September 14, 2013, 1:51 pm

    This is a very interesting article that suggests there may be a link between improved hygiene and Alzheimer’s disease

    link to theguardian.com

    “Exposure to micro-organisms – good and bad – is important for the body to develop proper immune responses.

    The researchers’ “hygiene hypothesis” suggests that as societies have become cleaner, the reduced level of contact with bacteria and other kinds of infectious agent might stall the proper development of important elements of the body’s immune system such as white blood cells. The team suggests that developing Alzheimer’s might be linked to autoimmune disease, in which the body’s immune system attacks itself.”

    I think Israel could be the same. IDF “hygiene’ is ultra dangerous . Maybe if Israel had lost a war or a UN vote it would have built up some moral resistance to militarism.

    And when el gordo comes, Israel will be in big trouble .

    • MahaneYehude1
      September 14, 2013, 4:00 pm

      @seafoid: I hope these researchers based their conclusions on many tested subjects, did real scientific research using statistics analysis, not like the conclusions of the “research” reported in the title of this post based on 12 (twelve!) young people in Zion Square in Jerusalem (2-3 minutes walking from the many pubs and restaurants in Migrash Harussim and Nahalat Shiva’a, when many human rights activists like to have beer after their weekly demonstration).

      • miriam6
        September 15, 2013, 3:32 am

        Welcome back MahaneYehude1!

        Welcome!

        Mazel Tov!

        I love ya baby !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        You were only gone for all of 48 hours but I have missed your Iraqi/ Kurdish/Morrocan, Israeli input like crazy!

        And may your potatoes always remain tasty and perfect for mashing with loads of butter ( yum yum) , roasting, chipping ( that’s turning potatoes into French fries for our American readers) sautéing and whatever else the brilliant human mind can think up to do with the humble spud ( a spud is what we Brits like to call a potato)

      • Taxi
        September 15, 2013, 5:25 am

        Calm yerself down, miriam, and spud this: link to urbandictionary.com

        “Any kind of low rank employee who’s sole task in life is to serve the general public with baked potatoes of various fillings. The ability to communicate effectively is rare in such life forms, and it is often left to gestures and guesswork to establish your order.”
        “I’m starving, Shall we go and see the spud b**** at lunch time?”

      • amigo
        September 15, 2013, 6:15 am

        ” ( a spud is what we Brits like to call a potato)” M6

        Ah Yes , the Brits and spuds.

        “Commenting on one of the many broken promises that Great Britain’s rulers made to their subjects in Ireland, G. K. Chesterton wrote: “It was a tragic necessity that the Irish should remember it; but it was far more tragic that the English forgot it. For he who has forgotten his sin is repeating it incessantly forever.” If there is one event that best captures this tendency to forget, it is surely the Irish famine, which killed more than a million people in the middle of the 19th century. John Kelly underlines Chesterton’s point in a different way with the title of his new history, “The Graves Are Walking.” The Irish cannot help remembering.

        ” It is one of those statesmen who provides the clearest lesson of the famine. Charles Edward Trevelyan was a civil servant at the Treasury who oversaw much of the British response. God had “sent the calamity to teach the Irish a lesson,” he declared, and it “must not be too much mitigated.” Some time later he wrote that the famine was a “direct stroke of an all-wise Providence.” Malthusianism was much in the air in those days, and men like Trevelyan saw the famine as, among other things, a means of transforming Ireland by reducing its population and the number of small farms.

        While the British did take some steps to ameliorate the crisis, Trevelyan and others withheld food at crucial times. This may not put the Irish famine up there with Mao Zedong’s Great Leap Forward or some of history’s other all-time-worst policies. But it is a reminder to beware of civil servants and politicians who think they are doing God’s work.

        link to nytimes.com

        Miriam has hit new Heights?.A British Zio apologist or is that a Zio brit apologist.Doesen,t get much worse , does it.

        BTW , do you think “you ” Brits should have bombed the Death Camps ???.

        And what do have to say to your fellow Jews who hung two of your fellow Brits from a tree and booby trapped their bodies.

        And before you ask–I was not in the IRA.

      • MahaneYehude1
        September 15, 2013, 7:44 am

        @Miriam: Really? welcome? love? I missed your input..? What a nice surprise. Knowing the readers here, I think you are the only one!

        Any way, I like your comment. I think little sense of humor is not bad in our situation. See you.

      • libra
        September 15, 2013, 10:31 am

        miriam: …and whatever else the brilliant human mind can think up to do with the humble spud…

        How about about baking them?

      • amigo
        September 15, 2013, 10:36 am

        “I think little sense of humor is not bad in our situation. See you.” M1 TO M6

        So ,Mahane, what is your situation.

        Is your house under demolition order or already demolished.Do you have to line up at the checkpoint each day and tolerate Palestinian thugs delaying or brutalizing you.

        Is your son or daughter in prison without trial.

        Do you have to travel miles to get water.Do you have to sit back and watch illegal Palestinian squatters burn your crops.

        As to humor,you or your cause celeb are anything but funny.

      • miriam6
        September 15, 2013, 3:48 pm

        Mahane Yehude1@;

        You are welcome!

        I think it is wonderful that you remain so pleasant and polite and positively sweet natured in your replies to other folks , even when being attacked relentlessly by them

        It never ceases to amaze me that most of the Israeli commenters here on this site such as yourself are so polite and pleasant —- in sharp contrast to the zealously anti – Israel commenters who claim to be such great humanitarians – and yet who are frequently unpleasant , downright rude and vitriolic in THEIR responses to others

        How ironic.

        Anyway I think you are a breath of fresh air on this site and I think you are fabulous

        In the spirit of friendship I thank you

        Keep on doing what you are doing!

        PS Libra

        I forgot luxurious Dauphinoise potatoes!

        link to videojug.com

      • libra
        September 15, 2013, 5:07 pm

        miriam: I forgot luxurious Dauphinoise potatoes!

        miriam, you certainly know how to turn the humble spud into a rich, self-indulgent seductress. How will Mahane be able to resist such a temptation?

        That said, I note your recipe omits the usual garlic. Surely you don’t have an aversion to this crucial French ingredient? I can only hope poor Mahane keeps a bulb or two to hand just in case.

      • Cliff
        September 15, 2013, 5:15 pm

        miriam666 said,

        It never ceases to amaze me that most of the Israeli commenters here on this site such as yourself are so polite and pleasant —- in sharp contrast to the zealously anti – Israel commenters who claim to be such great humanitarians – and yet who are frequently unpleasant , downright rude and vitriolic in THEIR responses to others

        Yes, dishonest people like you think our ‘vitriol’ contradicts our ‘great humanitarianism’ – as if being rude to a racist, Jewish supremacist and liar like you or the other ‘Israel commentators’ is a bad thing.

        It’s not.

        This blog has been around for years and many of us have been commenting on it for the duration.

        There used to be no moderators. I recall Zionists like ‘yonira’ mocking the Palestinians in Gaza for painting stripes on a donkey to cheer up Palestinian children (to pretend it was a Zebra). That story came out the same time an Israeli won a Nobel for some science category. ‘yonira’ mocked the Palestinians for their ‘backwardness’ and then boasted about the ‘Israelis’.

        You have tunnel-vision and the fact that you’re championing such a shallow, boring fanatic like ‘Mehude’ or whatever his name is, is quite telling in how shallow YOU are.

        Why don’t you parse the situation over at 972+ (you comment there too), with your ‘fellow Israel commentators’ like ‘XYZ’, ‘The Tresspasser’, etc. etc.

        If there were no moderators at MW, we would have to put up with your fascist and racist bile every single day.

        So while it appears that that boring fanatic, Mehude, is ‘civil’ – it’s because his hateful comments are censored (like his Nakba-denial comment).

      • Bumblebye
        September 15, 2013, 5:33 pm

        Gosh. Perfect English all of a sudden from MY1!
        Crash course over the past 48 hours?
        Or maybe there’s more than one pair of hands operating that ‘handle’.

      • just
        September 15, 2013, 5:48 pm

        Bumble– wonderful! I gave MY1 big props for his American English just the other day– it’s pretty awesome, isn’t it?

      • libra
        September 15, 2013, 7:06 pm

        Bumblebye: Or maybe there’s more than one pair of hands operating that ‘handle’.

        Then let’s hope miriam doubles up on the quantities before she pops round with the her Dauphinoise potatoes.

      • miriam6
        September 15, 2013, 7:18 pm

        Libra@:
        You are quite right Libra.
        The genuine article includes garlic.
        As the chef in the link says at about 1.39 in the video;
        The police from the Dauphinoise region will probably come around and arrest me cos I’m contravening their method of making potato..
        This recipe contains garlic;
        link to bbcgoodfood.com

        Bon appétit!

        I have always wondered how the French manage to eat such rich foods and still remain healthy and slim
        Apparently THIS is why;

        link to themorningnews.org

        BTW what I like to think of as my friendship with Yehude is in fact purely platonic.
        I don’t wanna scare the poor guy
        I have learnt already that Mondoweiss , – like the world itself – is full of married men

        ( the story of my life these days.. I hit on a guy and he is married!)

      • miriam6
        September 15, 2013, 7:30 pm

        Libra@:

        How about you read my comment linked to below and reply to it

        I very much want you to read it and also Jonathan Kuttab’s article about the pitfalls of a one state solution

        link to mondoweiss.net

      • Bumblebye
        September 15, 2013, 8:00 pm

        I have strange visions of Mr Potato-Head being dis- and reassembled somewhere in EJ. Maybe they should re name themselves ‘Team Tater’.

      • miriam6
        September 15, 2013, 8:41 pm

        Bumblebye@;

        I have strange visions of Mr Potato-Head being dis- and reassembled somewhere in EJ. Maybe they should re name themselves ‘Team Tater’.

        Well, I have had plenty of unjustified insults thrown at me on this website but none quite as loony as ‘Team Tater’ or whatever

        ‘Team Tater’ is still insulting but it’s a little nicer and more original than the tired old ‘hasbara’ routine

        Sometimes I wonder if commenters would accuse me of lying if I said gravity exists or that the sky is blue on account of me being called a Zionist.

        I am growing potatoes in big pots in time for Christmas (not kosher but I love it anyway)

        Hence my current obsession with taters

        And lo and behold a guy who sells potatoes pops up on MW!

        It must be a good omen for a good crop by mid-winter

      • miriam6
        September 15, 2013, 11:13 pm

        If there were no moderators at MW, we would have to put up with your fascist and racist bile every single day.

        I have been wrongly accused of being a troll , but I have never been accused of using inflammatory language , as you have.

      • MahaneYehude1
        September 16, 2013, 1:16 am

        @Amigo: Are you really want me to tell you what happened to my daughter when she saw suicide terror attack (Bus no. 32, Pat junction. opposite Faradus minimarket, Jerusalem)? Are you open to hear stories of Jewish victims of this conflict?

        Look, amigo, I respect the Palestinian victims, angry, like you, to see them in their bad situation and want to see the end of this pathological impossible situation. I personally don’t think it is funny. Shalom.

      • amigo
        September 16, 2013, 5:23 am

        “Look, amigo, I respect the Palestinian victims, angry, like you, to see them in their bad situation and want to see the end of this pathological impossible situation.”M1

        “British English: pathological You describe a person or their behaviour as pathological when they behave in an extreme and unacceptable way, and have very powerful feelings which they cannot control. ADJECTIVEHe experiences chronic, almost pathological jealousy.”

        Describes Zionist land theft and colonialism perfectly.Maybe it,s the reason we cannot get an end to this situation.

        “@Amigo: Are you really want me to tell you what happened to my daughter when she saw suicide terror attack (Bus no. 32, Pat junction. opposite Faradus minimarket, Jerusalem)? Are you open to hear stories of Jewish victims of this conflict?”M1

        Are you open to hear stories about Arab victims of Jewish terrorists who threw bombs into Arab Markets and buses.

        “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence”.

      • Shingo
        September 16, 2013, 5:34 am

        Look, amigo, I respect the Palestinian victims, angry, like you, to see them in their bad situation and want to see the end of this pathological impossible situation.

        Stop lying. You already admitted you are opposed to Palestinians having self determination.

      • Shingo
        September 16, 2013, 5:54 am

        It never ceases to amaze me that most of the Israeli commenters here on this site such as yourself are so polite and pleasant —- in sharp contrast to the zealously anti – Israel commenters who claim to be such great humanitarians – and yet who are frequently unpleasant , downright rude and vitriolic in THEIR responses to others

        I fail to see why you should be amazed.

        There is a famous anecdote about a Holocaust survivor who attended the Nuremberg trials and watched the nazi war criminals closely for any sign of their inhumanity and lack of civility.

        He ended up suffering even greater trauma over the realization that these monsters were very normal and civilized in their discourse.

        The fact that MY1 can remain polities while spouting such racist and fascust bile (which you lap up like a puppy), is hardly unique.

      • MahaneYehude1
        September 16, 2013, 6:20 am

        @Amigo: Both comments, my and your, are proofs that my old claim is correct: “Both peoples, the Jews and the Palestinians, in this tiny land are victims of the conflict”.

      • MahaneYehude1
        September 16, 2013, 6:23 am

        @Shingo: Did I admit that I oppose Palestinians having self determination?
        link to mondoweiss.net

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 16, 2013, 8:26 am

        “Sometimes I wonder if commenters would accuse me of lying if I said gravity exists or that the sky is blue on account of me being called a Zionist.”

        Your being a zio wouldn’t be grounds for calling you a liar, but merely sufficient to check whether gravity exists or the sky is blue…

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 16, 2013, 8:33 am

        “but I have never been accused of using inflammatory language , as you have.”

        LMAO. Yes, you have.

      • Woody Tanaka
        September 16, 2013, 8:51 am

        It never ceases to amaze me that most of the Israeli commenters here on this site such as yourself are so polite and pleasant —- in sharp contrast to the zealously anti – Israel commenters who claim to be such great humanitarians – and yet who are frequently unpleasant , downright rude and vitriolic in THEIR responses to others

        How ironic.

        You remind me of the statements made in slavery days and in Jim Crow days in the South in the US. The whites supporting slavery or the oppression of blacks often accused those working for their liberation as being uncultured, mean and uncivil when dealing with the genteel attitude of those who advocated for the continued slavery and oppression of black folks.

      • eljay
        September 16, 2013, 9:41 am

        >> It never ceases to amaze me that most of the Israeli commenters here on this site such as yourself are so polite and pleasant …

        It never ceases to amaze me that Zio-supremacists politely and pleasantly defend, justify, excuse and/or advocate for injustice, inequality, colonialism and absolution for past and on-going (war) crimes committed.

      • amigo
        September 16, 2013, 11:48 am

        “@Amigo: Both comments, my and your, are proofs that my old claim is correct: “Both peoples, the Jews and the Palestinians, in this tiny land are victims of the conflict”.”M1

        How are the Israeli Jews victims and who is their oppressor???.

        Your claim of equality is pure blather but no surprise.

        BTW which Mahane are you.The day shift or evening shift.

        Your grasp on the English language seems to oscillate wildly from one shift to the next.

      • seafoid
        September 16, 2013, 12:08 pm

        “Team Tater’ is still insulting but it’s a little nicer and more original than the tired old ‘hasbara’ routine”

        How about pure Israeli PR shite ?

      • Shingo
        September 16, 2013, 1:22 pm

        MahaneYehude1 on September 16, 2013 at 6:23 am
        @Shingo: Did I admit that I oppose Palestinians having self determination?

        Yes.

        You’ve already stated that you would oppose a m
        Palestinian state which controls it’s own air space and own borders.

      • MahaneYehude1
        September 16, 2013, 3:45 pm

        @Shingo: For your eyes only:
        link to mondoweiss.net

      • libra
        September 16, 2013, 4:49 pm

        miriam6: ( the story of my life these days.. I hit on a guy and he is married!)

        miriam, far be it for me to offer advice as an ‘agony uncle’ but a couple of thoughts come immediately to mind as to why even in the liveliest bar or club you find yourself surrounded by married men.

        First off, if your style of ‘hitting’ on a prospective partner is anything like your commenting style – a torrent of bold fonts and capitals – then that would certainly remind many men they would be better off mentioning a wife waiting at home and beating a quick retreat.

        But a man made of sterner stuff who could withstand your opening salvo might soon sense doubts about his place in the domestic arrangements in any upcoming union. Clearly he wouldn’t be sharing a bed with you given your fear of the ‘tyranny of 51%’ – that one morning you might wake up to find he’s edged himself into just over half the mattress.

        But then his alternative prospect of ‘temporary’ accommodation on the downstairs sofa leaves you trembling with fear that he might rush up the stairs one night and ‘existentially’ threaten you. Not withstanding the iron door on your bedroom and the formidable array of firearms you keep tucked under your pillow. Given the fact that you are clearly someone too selfish to imagine anything could be shared equally, it might indeed jog his memory that he too was already married

        No miriam, I’m afraid you’ve got the single state you deserve, just like Israel will be getting the single state it deserves through its greed and intransigence. Indeed, unless you change your whole way of looking at things, those plates of mashed potatoes will be the only comfort you get. Though perhaps not so bad after all, especially if smothered in red onion gravy. And better yet, you can have them all to yourself.

      • Shingo
        September 16, 2013, 10:26 pm

        @Shingo: For your eyes only

        For yours only MY1.

        I know also the argument: you are not serious about Palestinian independent state. You want to control the air, borders and full control on Jordan valley. Although I oppose this solution, I can understand why it is on the table:

        link to mondoweiss.net

      • Shingo
        September 16, 2013, 10:42 pm

        So ,- your silly , offensive argument about the nature of my comments is completely exploded

        Don’t be an idiot Miriam.

        That list clearly will not include the comments that were blocked by the moderators for being inflammatory and insulting.

      • Annie Robbins
        September 17, 2013, 12:24 am

        bull’s eye libra!

      • Taxi
        September 17, 2013, 12:33 am

        Miriam’s Tonka-Truck style of romance made Mahane the potato seller blush like a tomato.

      • Shingo
        September 17, 2013, 12:57 am

        A masterful analogy Libra!

      • just
        September 17, 2013, 5:07 pm

        Oh libra– you smacked that one outta the park! (an “agony uncle”!!! I’m still laughing!)

      • Donald
        September 17, 2013, 5:42 pm

        There’s a whole theory on the kind of discourse you engage in, miriam. Scroll down and read the section “in the philosophy of truth and rhetoric”.

        wikipedia entry

      • miriam6
        September 18, 2013, 11:44 am

        libra@:

        Your crude stereotyping of me is quite wrong.

        In these comments I have linked to below I did not in fact dismiss a one state solution out of hand.

        link to mondoweiss.net

        link to mondoweiss.net

      • miriam6
        September 18, 2013, 8:01 pm

        amigo@;

        Dear god amigo , I only have to so much as mention the ‘Brits’ and ‘spuds’ in one sentence and you immediately go off on one about the Irish potato famine?!!

        Do you live in Ireland itself or are you American Irish?

        Your link was very interesting but the fact is most of us Brits are now very well acquainted with the story of the Irish famine. I learnt all about it in O-level history class.We Brits are far from being in a state of denial about it.
        Of course the use of ‘ Hunger’ as a weapon against the Irish was not just confined to the period of the Irish famine ( did you see British artist Steve Mc Queen’s film about Bobby Sands?).
        Later on in history , the successive Labour / Tory British governments of the 1970’s , – having become all too aware that they were now fighting a war with the IRA, therefore stripped the Irish Republican prisoners of their status as political prisoners in order to de-legitimise them which led in turn to the dirty protests and finally the hunger strikes.
        In this article here by Mick Hume ( a Brit of Irish extraction) details how, for one thing, that the British trade unions weren’t exactly keen to lend the support of the British working classes to the cause of the hunger strikers .
        Also Hume compares the story of the history of the hunger strikes to the present day elevation of victim politics above the very real politics Sands was involved in..

        link to sixties-l.blogspot.co.uk

        The Irish were not the only victims of a British provoked famine.
        So were about 3 million Indians at the hands of Churchill, ironically during the years that Britain was fighting the ‘Good War’ against Nazi tyranny.

        The policy was deliberate, but it was not just a tactic forced out of Britain’s war needs. Churchill valued India so much, and hated Indian nationalists so much, that he fully wanted to starve them to death.

        link to spiked-online.com

        On the subject of those poor unfortunate booby trapped Brits, presumably you are remembering that the British repression of Palestinian resistance in the 1930’s was so extensive that it all but crushed any hope the Palestinians had of opposing the Zionists.

        And before you ask–I was not in the IRA.

        Cor – luv – a – duck! What provoked that?!
        Nor was I in the British army nor Margaret Thatcher’s government dearie!!

        Anyway, to paraphrase the great Irish philosopher John Lydon

        May the road rise with you!

        link to youtube.com

        And finally, I can hear a female owl hooting away loudly outside on this beautiful moon lit night , so I must go out and see if I can catch a glimpse of her, try and figure out which tree she might be in..
        As the great British hero said- ‘I am going outside, – I may be some time.’

      • miriam6
        September 18, 2013, 8:17 pm

        The first link to the article about Bobby Sands in my above comment seems dodgy but this one works better.

        link to sixties-l.blogspot.co.uk

      • Ecru
        September 15, 2013, 4:17 am

        Does the author pretend that this is a “scientific” census? No – they’re very open that this is the feeling they get on the Israeli street. Learn to tell the difference.

      • MahaneYehude1
        September 15, 2013, 7:36 am

        @Ecru: Mr. Weiss was honest enough to write that he spoke to dozen Israelis. I don’t have a problem with the text, only the title is little misleading. Even “feelings” have to be based on speaking with more than dozen people and in several different places (not only Zion square where many right-wing like to gather) especially if you are a journalist that many read your input.

        BTW, my feeling, based on many conversations with many Israelis and Palestinians is that most of them are against military intervention in Syria. I met many of them standing and expressing their panic in the lines for gas masks.

        Any way, I copied and pasted your comment and will use it in the future when I write sentences like the following example “After hundreds, if not thousands, conversations with Palestinians…I think that…”.

      • Ecru
        September 16, 2013, 2:18 am

        @ MY

        I copied and pasted your comment

        I’m sorry, is that supposed to be scary or something? Oooh I’m positively shaking in my boots. Now let’s look at the article itself shall we….

        I observed these attitudes in interviews with a dozen Jewish Israelis in Jerusalem the day before Yom Kippur.

        Observed. Please make note of that word. No claim that the authors view was formed from these 12 conversations but that he encountered the lust for blood in them. Your problem with the piece is formed from a misreading of the language. Let’s say I form an opinion of what’s going on here in Spain and I’m writing a piece on it. Do I write down every single conversation I’ve had that’s led me to my view or do I cut things down a bit and choose a dozen or so representative conversations? Considering how many people I speak with on a given day, I’ll go for the twelve thanks – less chance of RSI. Doesn’t mean those 12 are ALL the people I’ve spoken to, just the ones I write about.

        Amiel Vardi, a scholar and anti-occupation activist whom I interviewed……….two weeks ago Israelis were mostly for an attack on Syria, he says…….In the last week, mass opinion has become: it is easy to start a conflict but hard to end one.

        Now I admit the piece is a tad clumsily written, it’s hard to tell who’s part of the 12 people interviewed that day and who isn’t but the author did also ask someone who deals with young Israelis all the time (Vardi’s a lecturer in Classics) for their views and they seem in this one example at least to be broadly in agreement.

        And when you mention those conversations with Palestinians, please remember a conversation is not an interview. And remember to mark where and when you had said conversation and in what context. Thank you.

      • MahaneYehude1
        September 16, 2013, 3:17 am

        @Ecru: No, “I copied and pasted” not supposed to be scary at all. It was my way, maybe bad way, to tell you that your comment is positive and support my comments in which I write that my opinion based on conversations. If you find this sentence scary – ps accept my apologies.

        I appreciate the rest of your comment and your sincere explanations. As I said before, I don’t have a problem with the text, only with the misleading title, which I, as an Israeli citizen, know it doesn’t represent the common public view, even not the young Israelis.

      • Ecru
        September 17, 2013, 4:08 am

        @ MehaneYehude1

        OK I apologise for going off on one – you caught me on a particularly rough couple of days when frankly I’d have savaged Mother Theresa (although actually given what she got up to in India she’d probably deserve it). So sorry I bit your head off.

        Anyway, glad to hear at least one section of Israeli’s aren’t slavering to prove their machismo again at least, even if their government seems to be. (Now there’s a thought – I have to wonder, does Nutteryahoo suffer from erectile dysfunction and he’s just overcompensating?)

        And why do I say “one section?” Because the problem with any informal or even formal “census” isn’t actually the numbers – it’s the sampling strategy and the framing. People always seem to forget that. So all we can say is that Israelis of your acquaintance are sane, those Mr Weiss encountered stark slavering buggo (to quote The Joker). I hope your lot are in the majority but gods you folks have GOT to change your voting system to reflect it if that’s the case.

  14. redrooster
    September 14, 2013, 2:57 pm

    Reading this makes me feel sorry for the young Israelis, who live in constant fear from the outside world. Years of Zionist propaganda, inducing insecurity and xenophobia has apparently paid back.

  15. Taxi
    September 14, 2013, 3:37 pm

    “Israel Will Pay for Obama’s Hesitancy On Syria” – Shmuel Rosner.

    link to al-monitor.com

    • ritzl
      September 14, 2013, 11:13 pm

      Wow, Taxi. This Syria political contest really is defining and publicizing the completely divergent political agendas of Israel-via-AIPAC and the US voters.

      The unmitigated (and popularly offensive, the more it becomes known) arrogance of the Israeli elite mentality.

      … “Israel is paying and will yet pay a steep price for Obama’s reluctance. After all, a weak cop is a breach in the wall, just asking criminals to come on in. Moreover, Israel is also paying and may yet pay a steep price for the public support that its friends in America gave to the president, since there will be those who will accuse the “lobby” of provoking an attack, an accusation that might erode Israel’s standing with the American public. And the lobby won’t even have the pleasure of showing off his political strength. As of now, at least, the presidential goal it supports seems far from getting even a slim majority in Congress.

      It is reasonable to assume that Israel will expect payback from Obama for the harm he caused it — harm that it accepted without making a peep. It makes sense that Israel will want something in return. It could be America’s silence, instead of an accusing wag of the finger, in the likely event that the peace talks with the Palestinians fail. Or it could be American acquiescence to an Israeli strike against Iran at some time or other. And there are plenty of other ideas to think up.

      Read more: link to al-monitor.com

      • “pleasure of showing off its political strength”
      • “expect payback”
      • “American acquiescence”

      All from just those two grafs. The rest of the article is filled with eljay’s oppressor/victimhood (and I’ll add condescension) schtick.

      I can’t get over the fact that these folks actually believe this stuff, but believe it they certainly do. More pathetic is they actually act on it as if it were a natural condition.

      It’s hard to know where to begin… Except, as always, keep talking Mr. Rosner, et. al.

      I hope some major media picks up on this. Some outlet that has reader/viewership in the heartland. Let such a outlet pose this as “the way it is, and should be” editorially speaking and see the reaction.

      I think when the question becomes one of “owing” something, as opposed to predisposition, it changes a lot of minds here. In my conversations here (heartland/defense-oriented) people are generally predisposed to the Israeli PoV, but suggestions that we “owe” them anything gets the blood up a bit (i.e. bad words; bad words; NOT allies, among other things).

      Shorter version: Who cares?

      Amazing. Maybe even a little shocking, this thinking. As seafoid says, they’re going to implode. It’s inevitable.

      Thanks for the link. Al-monitor is a great site. Glad they have a variety of views.

  16. yonah fredman
    September 14, 2013, 3:56 pm

    Jerusalem’s Israeli Jews are much more right wing than the rest of the country, say 67% compared to 50%. The Ben Yehuda mall is not representative of the whole country.

    • just
      September 14, 2013, 7:47 pm

      So what does the “left” have to say?

      • miriam6
        September 14, 2013, 8:45 pm

        So what does the “left” have to say?

        link to spiked-online.com

      • just
        September 15, 2013, 7:54 am

        I asked about the “left” in Israel…….

        LOL.

      • Shingo
        September 15, 2013, 2:01 pm

        A pathetic effort on your part as usual Miriam. Your addiction to Spiked Online is clearly limiting your ability to think for yourself.

        This article you linked to simply underlines the fact that whether they are too busy kiving the good life or atruggling woth economic equality, Israelis are too obsessed with their own lives to give a shit about peace.

      • just
        September 15, 2013, 3:05 pm

        A resounding ditto, Shingo.

        Thanks for that.

      • K Renner
        September 16, 2013, 8:39 pm

        miriam6 = Daphna Leaf

        and just as short sighted as to what social justice entails.

        “Forget the Palestinians, guys! The real issue is that us pseudo-left hipsters can’t buy as much cottage cheese anymore!”

        There are a few reputable and decent Israeli activist groups, but for the most part, the “Israeli left” is a fragile and insipid thing when it comes to the issue of the occupation of Palestine. Most I’ve heard talk can only go on about “love and peace”, or mouth things about a “two state solution” (as opposed to the Israeli right-wing’s “Jordan is Palestine” or “there are no Palestinians”, outright).

      • Shingo
        September 17, 2013, 1:08 am

        “Forget the Palestinians, guys! The real issue is that us pseudo-left hipsters can’t buy as much cottage cheese anymore!”

        Thanks for reminding us about the insipid and narcicism of the Israeli left. Miriam has repeatedly linked to that same lame article, which ignores the fact that one of the main complaints the demonstrators had was that their breakfasts were getting expensive.

        I always said that the only difference between a left and right ring Zionist is that the right wing are more honest.

        As someone once explained, the right wingers will call for Palestinians to be expelled from their land. The left will insist they be transported in air conditioned busses.

      • miriam6
        September 17, 2013, 2:15 am

        It might interest you all to know that the author of the article I linked to here ; link to mondoweiss.net is Yoni Eshpar who is director of Israeli human rights NGO Gish.org.

        By the way, Gisha is an organisation which is generously funded by donors from abroad and also funded by donations from Israelis.

        Gisha is an Israeli not-for-profit organization, founded in 2005, whose goal is to protect the freedom of movement of Palestinians, especially Gaza residents. Gisha promotes rights guaranteed by international and Israeli law.

        link to gisha.org

        link to gisha.org

      • Shingo
        September 17, 2013, 2:47 am

        It might interest you all to know that the author of the article I linked to here ; link to mondoweiss.net is Yoni Eshpar who is director of Israeli human rights NGO Gish.org.

        It might be interesting, but of little relevance. There are all manner of NGOs – good, bad, left, right, pro and anti democratic.

        Eshpar might be the director of a benevolent NGO, but like the former director of HRW, he exposes as clear ethnocentric bias.

      • miriam6
        September 17, 2013, 4:04 am

        Shingo@;

        Eshpar might be the director of a benevolent NGO, but like the former director of HRW, he exposes as clear ethnocentric bias.

        In the first place, which HRW, which director of HRW?

        Secondly , you are saying that simply because Eshpar was born an Israeli Jew he must be guilty of what you call ethnocentric bias?

        How so exactly?

      • Shingo
        September 18, 2013, 11:57 pm

        In the first place, which HRW, which director of HRW?

        1. There is only one HRW.

        2. The international non-governmental organization Human Rights Watch (HRW) has been criticized by national governments, other NGOs, its founder and former Chairman Robert L. Bernstein , and the media.
        link to en.wikipedia.org

        Secondly , you are saying that simply because Eshpar was born an Israeli Jew he must be guilty of what you call ethnocentric bias?

        No I am saying Eshpar has an ethnocentric bias because his argument wreak of it.

      • miriam6
        September 19, 2013, 12:54 am

        Shingo@;

        No I am saying Eshpar has an ethnocentric bias because his argument wreak of it.

        No, you accuse him of ‘ethnocentric’ bias simply and purely because he is an Israeli Jew.

        He is someone who works in practical ways to aid the Palestinian people.

        He is opposed to the military occupation of the OPT.

        What on earth would motivate a true ‘ethnocentrist’ to help someone outside his own ethnicity?

        Compared to Eshpar and his organisation , what have YOU ever done to help Palestinians?

        I mean , give me some examples of efforts YOU have made on their behalf that made a real concrete difference to their lives that is measurable.

        And shooting your mouth off on this site doesn’t count.

  17. MRW
    September 14, 2013, 6:03 pm

    Our youth are going isolationist, and our young Millennial generation is waaay bigger than the Baby Boomer and Gen X warmongers. American youth, unlike Israeli youth, will not stand for bombing The Other because it is The Other, or harming, hurting, installing walls around them because you think you are better than The Other. This is one of the existential problems Israeli youth are going to face as they age alongside their American counterparts, thinking there is going to be an ounce of sympathy for the Israelis who think like that. There isn’t, and there won’t be.

    So thinking, or remarks, like these are completely out of touch with American reality.

    “It shows to Israel, we have no one to trust.”

    “If you look at Google comments, America says, we’re fighting in Iraq for Israel, and Iran for Israel. If it wasn’t for Israel, there would be peace. You couldn’t say so many things about Israel and Jews ten years ago.”

    The Israelis who uttered them fail to grasp the blossomed zeitgeist here. American kids have already put a fork in it, they’re done. Even Hillary Clinton, from what I hear, doesn’t stand much of chance in 2016 among these kids because she represents Old Guard thinking—doesn’t matter that she’s a woman—they’re fed up with it. They’re fed up with pre-emptive wars robbing US treasure, attention, and the legislative action needed to create their futures. Newsflash. They have the voting power.

    American youth, the ones I’ve been talking to and make a point of doing so–14, 15, 16, 17 year olds, and not necessarily the sharpest knives in the drawer; geopolitics not their forte–view Israel’s problems as their own damn fault, not because it is Israel, per se, or because Jews are involved, not the point.

    It’s because that country had seven decades to create peace, they’ve had money from us, they’ve had our political and diplomatic help, and they’ve done nothing but complain and create more pain and agità. And want to drag America into fighting their wars for them.

    As one kid said to me, if all the countries were kids at my school, Israel would be the bully that would get kicked out, or that no one would want to talk to. [They have zero tolerance rules at their school.]

    And BTW, the ‘we’re persecuted Jews’ argument ain’t gonna’ fly either. Even teenagers are getting fed up with Holocaust references in everything from movies to casual political talk. It’s enough already, and doesn’t help Israel’s cause.

  18. MahaneYehude1
    September 16, 2013, 12:43 am

    @Amigo, Bumb, Libra, Just, taxi: I posted in this thread three comments: in the first, I thanked miriam, with humor, for her personal comment to me which has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. In the two rest comments (to seafoid and ecru), I criticized the misleading title of this post “Young Israeli want…”. While all of you and others choose to reply and comment on the “potato issues” (or spuds, if you like), no one of you said even one word about my critic which deal directly with the topic of Weiss’s post. I wonder why.
    link to mondoweiss.net
    link to mondoweiss.net

    • amigo
      September 16, 2013, 5:09 am

      “In the two rest comments (to seafoid and ecru), I criticized the misleading title of this post “Young Israeli want…” M1

      Here is a sample of what your young people want.Your tin pot nation is rife with young racist bigots so the headline is not the least bit misleading.

      A March 2010 poll by Tel Aviv University found that 49.5% of Israeli Jewish high school students believe Israeli Arabs should not be entitled to the same rights as Jews in Israel. 56% believe Arabs should not be eligible to the Knesset, the Israeli parliament.[18]

      An October 2010 poll by the Dahaf polling agency found that 36% of Israeli Jews favor eliminating voting rights for non-Jews.[19] In recent polling (2003–2009) between 42% and 56% of Israelis agreed that “Israeli Arabs suffer from discrimination as opposed to Jewish citizens;” 80% of Israeli Arabs agreed with that statement in 2009.[20]
      In the media

      Some authors, such as David Hirsi and Ayala Emmet, have criticized the Israeli media for portraying Arabs negatively.[21][22] The Israeli media has been described as “racist” in its portrayals of Israeli-Arabs and Palestinians by Israeli-Arab Nabilia Espanioly [23]

      link to en.wikipedia.org

      Now you have learned to link , why not start providing us with credible links to back up your claims instead of an endless parade of regurgitated zionist hasbara.

      • MahaneYehude1
        September 16, 2013, 6:26 am

        @Amigo: OK, I understand. As usual, when someone can’t deal with specific comment on a very narrow specific subject, he runs to other facts and issues.

        Look, Amigo, I didn’t enter MW to be one more “Hasbara” as you call us. I am here to bring different voice from Israel, to show that many of us, if not most, want peace and reconciliation. By asking me to bring links, you force me to be no more that propagandists like many of you. I promised to myself never bring links to videos taken from Palestinian schools and “summer camps” to show you what they are telling and learning about us (and no, they are not saying “we will fight until we will be equal like the Jews…”). In your comment you showed me that you are champion in finding information. Please, take your time to find these videos I just mentioned.

        OK, I have done enough in this thread for today. Wish you all a nice day.

      • Cliff
        September 16, 2013, 7:44 am

        You are a hasbarist. Deny it all you want, your comments are superficial fanaticism.

        Why don’t you respond to the ACTUAL CONTENT of Amigo’s post?

        All you do is talk about HOW to TALK!

        It’s the same in every single one of your comments: ‘Blah blah, I’m not a ‘Hasbara’ – I just came here to blah blah blah, you should read this or that blah blah.’

        Pathetic.

      • amigo
        September 16, 2013, 2:05 pm

        “@Amigo: OK, I understand. As usual, when someone can’t deal with specific comment on a very narrow specific subject, he runs to other facts and issues.”M1

        You raised the subject of Bombs on buses.

        “@Amigo: Are you really want me to tell you what happened to my daughter when she saw suicide terror attack (Bus no. 32, Pat junction. opposite Faradus minimarket, Jerusalem)? Are you open to hear stories of Jewish victims of this conflict?”M1

        I simply pointed out the terrorists you wish to avoid talking about.Hardly other facts or figures.

        That is why we view you as a hasbarist who sees only one side and plays eternal victim.

        ” By asking me to bring links, you force me to be no more that propagandists like many of you. “M1

        I get it?. we provide links to back up our claims.You refuse to corroborate you claims and we are the Propagandists.

        Now that,s rich.

        Chutzpah at it,s finest.

      • Shingo
        September 16, 2013, 2:09 pm

        By asking me to bring links, you force me to be no more that propagandists like many of you.

        No, propagandists are the ones who prefer to make unverifiable claims.

        By insisting you to bring links, we are forcing you to prove you are not talking rubbish, making up the first thing that comes to your head, or simply speaking as an individual who’s views are but in fact shared by the majority of Israelis.

        In fact, you have already demonstrated on numerous occasions that your idea of peace and reconciliation is actually as macabre and one sided as Netenyahu’s.

        One could have argued that Hitler wanted peace too, but in pretty extreme terms.

        I promised to myself never bring links to videos taken from Palestinian schools and “summer camps” to show you what they are telling and learning about us

        No one asked you to make such a promise, so why you made it to yourself is a mystery By all means, link to all your islamophobic links you want, you won’t be the first to introduce them to this forum. Of course, you would them risk having those sources scrutinized and refuted, not to mention facing a barrage of links showing what Israeli Jews are learning about Arabs, or what they already think.

        So you prefer to argue in the realm of anecdotes of what you claim were your own experiences, which of course, cannot be verified to determine if you are lying.

        Please, take your time to find these videos I just mentioned.

        Like I said, we already seen these videos and like I also said, we can also produce copious links that are equally damning about Israeli Jewish society.

        So from that, you would have to agree that the only logical conclusion one could dress is that Israelis do not want peace, leg alone reconciliation.

      • talknic
        September 17, 2013, 3:00 am

        MahaneYehude1 “Look, Amigo, I didn’t enter MW to be one more “Hasbara” as you call us. I am here to bring different voice from Israel”

        But you bring the same tired worn out wholly holey moldy olde Hasbra

        “By asking me to bring links, you force me to be no more that propagandists…”

        Not our fault that you bring propaganda

        “… like many of you.”

        Example?

  19. K Renner
    September 16, 2013, 8:15 pm

    >> Sarah said, “It shows to Israel, we have no one to trust. How are we going to stop Iran? Israel is representing the whole world against Iran.”

    This is “hilarious”.

    It seems that an awful lot of people have really bought into the Nutandyahoo “war with Iran” rhetoric, and it couldn’t come at a worse time.

    Dialogue with Rouhani and other people like him– and there are a whole lot of them– is the only sane, practical solution in regard to de-escalating tensions between Iran and the West.
    Obviously, irritating, delusional little scrappers like Israel should be shut out from making “western” policies concerning Iran, especially when one considers that Israel expects people from other countries to fight and die “for Israel” if Israel starts a war.

    >> “If you look at Google comments, America says, we’re fighting in Iraq for Israel, and Iran for Israel. If it wasn’t for Israel, there would be peace. You couldn’t say so many things about Israel and Jews ten years ago.”

    Boo hoo.

    They also won’t like the fact that people who want to talk about the Palestinians, for example, aren’t being shut down by flaccid Israeli accusations of “anti Semitism” half as much, if not more, then they used to be.

Leave a Reply