The face of young Israel: Palestinians shouldn’t be in the Knesset, or in relationships with Jews

Israel/Palestine
on 166 Comments

Last month, I went to the Ben Yehuda pedestrian mall in West Jerusalem to interview Israelis, and spent half an hour sitting with three teenagers. After a few minutes, they allowed me to turn on my video camera. Max Blumenthal was with me, and I believe the exchange bears out the themes of Blumenthal’s new book, Goliath: that building and sustaining a Jewish state in defiance of most of the indigenous population has endowed young Israelis with fiercely militant, Jewish-supremacist ideas.

Specifically, the teenagers say that young Jews should not date Palestinians and that Palestinians should not have representation in the Knesset, because these inclusions undermine the Jewish character of the state. And the Jewish people need Israel to survive.

“We know that we can’t be Jewish anywhere else,” says one.

And all this as a guitarist picks out rock tunes in the background, including Tom Petty’s Free Falling.

The three teenagers are religious nationalists, but they say their attitudes are widely shared; and polls have indicated that 50 percent or more of Israelis have similar attitudes toward Palestinians.

The forceful young man on the right who is going into the army soon is named Matanya. He’s 19. The girl on the left in the Justin Bieber tshirt is Shiran, 18. The girl in the middle is 17, and named Shoham.

As the video is very long, I’m supplying a partial transcript below.

Matanya begins by explaining why it is necessary to act in Syria, and why the old are reluctant to do so. “Younger people have fire in their eyes” and are willing to die for their “ideals.” Matanya says he is willing to serve in Syria, whatever the risk.

“We have to do something. Something serious.”

The three agree that Arabs are not ready for democracy. “They don’t have the mentality for democracy like we do,” Matanya says. All humanity is moving toward democracy, but Arab political culture is particularly resistant to it.

Shiran says that she can relate to the uprisings of the Arab Spring. “The Jews always had pain in their history so you can understand being oppressed.”

I ask Matanya about the American belief that the occupation is the problem.

“I say that’s nonsense… I know they say that. It’s not true, because 40 years ago when we had the borders of ’67, still the Arabs want to kill us and want us not to be here anymore…They don’t want us here period.”

Is there an occupation? Max asks.

“In my opinion, No. because we were here before the Arabs.”

Shiran adds that Arabs and Jews could have coexisted but Arabs chose not to, beginning in 1948. “They could have a state right next to us. They didn’t want it from the start. Now the [Israeli] people don’t want it either because of the way they treated the Jews in the last few years.”

Matanya explains that Islam doesn’t permit a Jewish state. “If they want peace, of course we will give them peace. Our religion is all for it… [Judaism] says specifically that we should treat nicely the people who are not from our people. [i.e., the stranger]”

I ask the young people my favorite question of young Jews: Isn’t it better that Israel cease to be a Jewish state than that one more young person die for it to be such a thing? “Am I wrong to say that?”

Shiran says a binational state is a utopian idea. “It’s possible but it can’t be, because the Arab don’t want it.” And neither do the Jews. “The Jews need a place to be where they are not oppressed, a place where they can be Jewish.”

Matanya is more authoritative.

“This country has to stay Jewish for a few reasons. First of all, we saw what happens when there is no Jewish country. I am sure about it, if there’s not a Jewish country, there will be another Holocaust…. Our religion is true, I believe in all my heart that it’s true. This nation has been existing for the longest time in history. I think there’s something true about our religion. You see that something real is happening here.

“We know that we can’t be Jewish anywhere else. We know that Jewish people are forgetting their resource and wherever they come from in other countries, and we know there’s going to be another Holocaust if we’re not here.”

I ask if his attitude is representative. He says, “Most of the older people think exactly like me. That’s why they stay here and they want the country to stay Jewish.”

I say that during the civil rights movement, black and white people sometimes fell in love with one another, and in some parts of the country, that was considered bad. How do they look on love across religious/racial lines?

“We’re religious so religious people are not allowed to do it,” Shoham says.

Shiran says it’s not just religious people. “In girls’ schools, they tell you, teach you about how– I’m not saying that all the Palestinians are bad… they tell you how dangerous it can be.”

Shoham explains the danger. “It’s a different culture. They live in different places.” And sometimes when Israeli women marry Palestinians, they move to their villages. “It’s a different way of living And Israelis people are not used to it.”

“Oppressive,” Shiran says.

“Primitive,” Matanya says. “They treat women very primitively. I would not want… a girl I know to marry some Palestinian guy. Not because he’s bad. But because of the way they treat….”

I ask how much they would do to stop such a pairing.

Shiran: “I would try very hard to stop it.… I’m not saying that they all live that way but still– you’re Jewish, you shouldn’t marry a non-Jew… even if [that person is] a very good person, you don’t know what their family would think, friends would think. Also because You should try and raise your kids Jewish. Not religious– Jewish.”

Max then asks if their schools warn them about these dangers.

Shiran: “Yeah they do. Because it’s very important… Not in a way that Arabs are bad. They don’t wash your brain.”

Shoham clarifies, “They’re talking about family and it’s like– they warn you about not marrying an abusive husband. So it’s like they’re also talking about not marrying a non-Jewish man.”

Matanya ties this into ideas of nationality. “We know that we’re not responsible only for ourselves, but for our whole country and also for the Jewish people. So any action you take you have to think about that.”

I say, I know lots of Jews in the U.S. and half of my friends are married to non-Jews. Is that what Matanya means when he sees Jews falling away?

“Yes. I think that’s the way that the Jewish vanish. If all the Jews will do that, there won’t be Jewish people anymore, and we want to keep the Jewish people running for a lot more generations.”

Near the end now, and I ask about tribal beliefs that Jews are smarter. The teenagers don’t buy this. But they do say that Israelis have more get-up-and-go.

Matanya says, “We push harder, we go further, we’re not afraid. You don’t see it in a lot of places in the world. In the US you live very calmly, you don’t have a lot of pressure. Not like here. Here you have life and death situations. In every area of living, from high tech to army…. We come to a place where no one ever succeeded in doing anything with those lands, and we made them great lands with a lot of crops.”

Shiran: “We work harder, we don’t give up.”

Max says, “How come the Jews aren’t smart enough to get out of this situation of endless war?”

I don’t think the answers make a lot of sense, though Matanya emphasizes, “We don’t come to kill. We come to save life, not to take life. We have no intention of taking anyone’s life.”

I say that these young people seem to want to renew the Zionist dream, and Matanya agrees.

Then I ask about strong leaders.

Matanya says, “I’m not sure we have a lot of them now. But I’m sure there’s going to come new blood.”

Shiran says that the leaders have been “letting us down.” She seems to mean in the economy.

Max asks if Ariel Sharon was strong.

Shiran says, “We don’t like him.”

Matanya: “He did a lot of very good things for the Israeli people. He gave his whole life for our security. But at the end of his life he made a big mistake, a very big mistake.” He refers to the removal of settlers from Gaza in 2005.

“So, no further pullouts of settlers?” Max asks.

“For sure. Ever,” Matanya says.

I then ask Matanya about visiting him in the Knesset 50 years from now, and will there be peace?

“I pray with all my heart that there will be peace, but anyway we’ll keep going.” He says that Arabs will be free to live here peacefully, with liberty and have the best life they can have, better than in neighboring Arab countries.

“But in my opinion they should not have political figures in our Knesset.

“In other words, they should not have Arab members in the Knesset?” Max says.

“Ideally, yeah. We will. For sure, the Jewish people will take care of the Arabs, they will get what they have to get, the food, the liberty, they can work wherever they want, but if we want to keep our country Jewish and Israeli and in peace, we have to take control of what is happening.”

Shiran: “The way they treat us is exactly the way their leaders treat them. Something has to be done.”

Max. “So Haneen Zoabi has to get out of the Knesset.”

Matanya: “No doubt. She has to get out. She is a representative of the Israeli nation, and she goes on the Marmara, that was completely against the country, it was a betrayal…. I think the only way there will be peace is if she won’t be there, and we’ll be there.”

But what rights will Palestinians have? I ask. And must they leave?

Matanya says, they can stay where they live. “We’re not going to take the lands.. but we’re not going to give any of our lands and we will expend what we can expend because it’s our country.” Arabs have the right to live here, but the refugees cannot return. “That won’t happen. But they can stay on the land, we will have control of the country, and they can live here peacefully, and happily, with all the rights.”

166 Responses

  1. amigo
    October 14, 2013, 1:03 pm

    “Ideally, yeah. We will. For sure, the Jewish people will take care of the Arabs, they will get what they have to get, the food, the liberty, they can work wherever they want, but if we want to keep our country Jewish and Israeli and in peace, we have to take control of what is happening.”

    One has to wonder what these kids kids will be like.Can you imagine the candor they speak with when no one, (suspicious) is around.Kill all Arabs and death to all Arabs would be the topic.

    I have said it before, Israeli is doomed and the threat is within.

    • Donald
      October 14, 2013, 1:42 pm

      “.Can you imagine the candor they speak with when no one, (suspicious) is around.”

      Oh, they probably mean what they say here. Racists or religious fanatics of all sorts, except for the most extreme, usually see themselves as benevolent and if only the inferior people would stay in their place, everyone will be happy. If the inferiors step out of line, though….

      • amigo
        October 14, 2013, 3:24 pm

        Donald you are probably right but if so , these kids can only become worse.

        They are an ugly reflection of Project Zionism.

  2. Woody Tanaka
    October 14, 2013, 1:10 pm

    Ah, fascists in the spring of life.

    • Krauss
      October 14, 2013, 2:21 pm

      With a Justin Bieber shirt.

      I have to add, however, that at least Matanya has convictions he is willing to bear out. He is saying himself that he is willing to fight in Syria. Contrast this to the infinite amount of chickenhawks in America. I think he’s wrong, but at least his money is where his mouth is.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 14, 2013, 3:56 pm

        “He is saying himself that he is willing to fight in Syria. ”

        Meh. He knows the odds of him actually fighting in Syria is slim to none.

      • Krauss
        October 15, 2013, 3:09 am

        Fair point, but he seems like a crazy enough guy that if the chance appeared to go with other Jews, he’d do it.

      • Theo
        October 15, 2013, 10:26 am

        Krauss

        It seems you are proud of this young, misguided man, who is willing to go and kill others who never did him any harm.
        Rather you should be ashamed of him.

        By the way, when the push turns into a shove, a lot of people change their minds. He probably thinks how the palestinians react to the actions of the IDF, not realizing that the syrians would shoot back! He should read up on Lebanon 2008!

    • seafoid
      October 14, 2013, 3:42 pm

      Academics 20 years ago saw where israeli right wing rhetoric was headed. The price of Yesha was paid in decency and civility. The dynamic of zionism is hyperactive hyperviolence and it is self destroying.

  3. amigo
    October 14, 2013, 1:26 pm

    Max asks if Ariel Sharon was strong.

    Shiran says, “We don’t like him.”

    One has to wonder just how far would a leader have to go , to be liked.

    “So, no further pullouts of settlers?” Max asks.

    “For sure. Ever,” Matanya says.

    Be on your Guard Bibi.

    There,s a Yigal Amir in there somewhere.

  4. seafoid
    October 14, 2013, 1:30 pm

    Manufacturing Jewish hatred is the role of the education and media sectors in Israel. I guess none of the medieval scribes figured the return to zion would be so mentally grim. Jewish darkness has a hold that is insatiable.

  5. MahaneYehude1
    October 14, 2013, 2:25 pm

    Philip Weiss, what kind of journalism do you represent in this site? Knowing the diversity of the Israeli society, it is impossible that all the Israelis you meet say the same things (like the seven people you reported a month ago). Where are all other youth groups like Hashomer Hatzair, Noar Meretz, Sadaka-Re’ut and many other? Do you search for them or it is convenient to you to interview people in the center of Jerusalem where many right-wings youth like to gather? For the sake of balanced journalism, please expand your “area” and bring us other voices from Israel. I would also appreciate if you interview Palestinian youth also (but, please, not three). It will be interesting to know their views about the Israelis.

    • Philip Weiss
      October 14, 2013, 3:16 pm

      Mahane I agree with you that these young people are not the entire society. But do you think I am wrong when I say that half of Israeli society expresses similar views? And doesn’t this seem to be the trendline– ever rightward? Phil

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 14, 2013, 3:49 pm

        Philip, thanks for your honesty, at least you say “half of…”. To answer your question we need long term research that uses statistic parameters, not several interviews and polls. But, if you ask me about my impression (since you also wrote your impression), I think that most of the Israelis, including older people, express different views. I want to write again my former comment: In the 1970’s the majority of Jewish Israelis were against Israeli withdrawal from the Sinai desert. When President Saddat of Egypt visited Israel as part of his peace mission, those Israelis went out to the streets, waving the flags of Israel and Egypt and sang “Peace, Peace”. I sure and hope that when real peace process will be on the table we will see them again with Palestinian flag. Among them, hopefully, the three young people in your video.

      • Shingo
        October 14, 2013, 8:14 pm

        To answer your question we need long term research that uses statistic parameters, not several interviews and polls.

        Cut the crap Mahane. Those statistics are readily available and presented to you repeatedly. When confronted with them, you crawl back into your hole and talk about your opinions or “impression ” of the reality in Israel.

        You cannot cite a single piece of evidence that most Israelis, including older people, express different views. They don’t.

        In the 1970′s the majority of Jewish Israelis were against Israeli withdrawal from the Sinai desert. When President Saddat of Egypt visited Israel as part of his peace mission, those Israelis went out to the streets,

        Again, you keep ignoring the fact that it’s been forty years and Israel’s moral and ideological degradation and movement to the far right has made Israel a very different place. Today we have an Iranian leader who has made significant overtures for peace and even wished the Jewish people well wishes for Rosh Hashanah.

        And what has the response been from the Israeli people in the street? They are calling him Hitler. So is the Israeli leadership who is not calling for peace, but more sanctions and more war.

        And you can cut the crap about this being a Jerusalem only phenomenon. Lapid, who is the face of Tel Aviv and the so called moderate, sounds exactly like thees racist punks in Jerusalem. In fact, these kids actually seem to have a grater respect for Palestinians as individuals than Lapid.

        Your country is one seriously messed up and sick society Mahane. You can sugar coat it all you like, but you either live is a bubble or are simply lying.

      • Ellen
        October 14, 2013, 9:10 pm

        MH1, Israel withdrew from the Sinai because it had no choice, not because it’s leaders saw the withdraw from territories taken in conflict as a road to peace. Beginwas cornered and the US was not going to fund the occupation of the Sinai. It was simply too costly for Isreal and not worth it to hold onto.

        But Israel still indirectly controls much of the Sinai. Only Israel has the maps of the mines throughout the Sinai.

        As for those older Israeli’s waving Egyptian flags along side Israeli flags: that was after the peace agreement, and after Begin successfully sold the public on the idea.

        The idea of a real peace can be sold to the Israeli public again. But it will only happen when Isreal’s leaders are forced to finally make peace with “the other.” Right now there is no need. Continued conflict and threat of conflict pays off for Israeli leaders and the associated conflict industry.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 14, 2013, 11:30 pm

        @Ellen: I didn’t mention the Israeli government(s) and the interests behind the peace agreement with Egypt. Since Philip’s report is about public opinion, I am talking about the Israeli public opinion that was changed then in the 1970’s. You are not right: the Israelis, not only old but all, went to the streets when President Sadat visited Jerusalem before the peace agreement. One of the beautiful moment of Israel and the Israelis.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 15, 2013, 12:33 pm

        @Shingo:

        When I talk about my impression I say that it is “my impression” and I don’t pretend to know everything. Unfortunately, many others write their impressions and their interpretations as truth facts.

        What happens in the last 40 years? How do you explain the fact (according to you) that “Israel’s moral and ideological degradation and movement to the far right” as you wrote in your comment? Don’t you think that it possible that things also changed among our neighbors? Years of hatred and incitement did their jobs and you see the results in the polls you all like to cite. You don’t have to do polls, only open the Palestinian or Arab TV’s and see by your self the ugly propaganda against us. Don’t expect a young Israeli gives you other answers after he hear day after days many Palestinian leaders threaten us and promise us hell. Believe me, Shingo, considering the atmosphere we live in and the poll results, the Israeli society has to receive peace Noble prise. Watch Phil’s video again.

        No, Shingo, the Israeli society is not sick. The situation here is sick and this affects all of us, Jews and Palestinians. As I know the Israeli society, one small sign of compromise from the other side will change your poll findings dramatically.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 15, 2013, 2:37 pm

        “Don’t you think that it possible that things also changed among our neighbors? Years of hatred and incitement did their jobs and you see the results in the polls you all like to cite. You don’t have to do polls, only open the Palestinian or Arab TV’s and see by your self the ugly propaganda against us.”

        Oh, you poor, poor, poor dears!!! You don’t do anything… maybe steal their land, kill and ethnically cleanse them, oppress them and hold them without rights for generations… but basically nothing really, and they have the guts to say bad things about you. BAD WORDS!!! What ingrates!!!! Why, they should be writing songs praising you for blowing up their children with American-suppied munitions and for destroying their lives…

      • Shingo
        October 15, 2013, 5:45 pm

        When I talk about my impression I say that it is “my impression” and I don’t pretend to know everything. Unfortunately, many others write their impressions and their interpretations as truth facts.

        Strop lying and stop trolling. When you talk about your impression, it means you have no evidence to back up your claims and even produce a cogent argument. It’s just deceit and lies on your part because by talking about your impression, no one can prove you are lying, though it’s abundantly clear that you are.

        Others have cited countless polls and surveys to back up their arguments. You have not provided a single one. Just vague and general BS about peace without any substance to back it up.

        ow do you explain the fact (according to you) that “Israel’s moral and ideological degradation and movement to the far right” as you wrote in your comment?

        Easily. The 1967 war changed Israel for the worse – as if it wasn’t already bad enough. It created a shift in Israeli consciousness, as well as it’s supporters that their military could perform miracles, and inspired all manner of messianic delusions that have led to Israel’s sickness.

        God was on their side (they won it in 6 days – the same time it took God to create the Earth) and that this was God’s sign to take the land.

        Years of hatred and incitement did their jobs and you see the results in the polls you all like to cite.

        Back to your delusions fallacy that this hatred sprung from nowhere. Israel’s hate filled policies and ideology is what incited this hatred, then you have the chutzpah to turn around and play victim.

        And the best and only pathetic anecdote you can come up with is to point the finger at Arab TV’s. Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel.

        You are truly pathetic and disgust me Mahane, because you are a coward as well as a liar. No I don’t believe you and no one does, because you have proven time and time again that you are not worthy of being taken seriously or believed. All you want is for the criticism and negative spotlight on Israel to go away.

        You’re scared of the polls and run away from them because you cannot deny them. They pretend a truth that you either refuse to accept or can’t easily explain away.

        As I know the Israeli society, one small sign of compromise from the other side will change your poll findings dramatically.

        Rubbish. We already saw what happened when the other side changed in 1995 when Rabin accepted Araft’s recognition of Israel and his giving up all territory Israel seized in 1948/1949. Israel’s current prime minister was calling for Rabin’s head and an Israeli Jew killed him. That’s how Israel responded to peace even then and now it’s far worse.

        Israel a very sick and depraved society and people like you who are like people with bu polar disorder who refuse to take their meds because they don;t think they have a problem.

      • RoHa
        October 15, 2013, 9:21 pm

        “As I know the Israeli society, one small sign of compromise from the other side will change your poll findings dramatically.”

        What compromise would you suggest?

        Accept Jews as equal citizens of Palestine? (Nope. Can’t be that. They were ready to do that before partition. It was the Jews who refused to accept idea of Palestine with the Arabs as equal citizens.)

        Cede 78% of Palestine to Israel? (Nope. Can’t be. They have been ready to do that for a long time. It isn’t enough for Israel.)

        So what new compromise?

        Of course, Israelis don’t need to make any compromises, do they?

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 16, 2013, 6:42 am

        @Shingo:

        1) “When you talk about your impression, it means you have no evidence to back up your claims and even produce a cogent argument”
        2) “Others have cited countless polls and surveys to back up their arguments. You have not provided a single one. Just vague and general BS about peace without any substance to back it up”
        3) “You are truly pathetic and disgust me Mahane, because you are a coward as well as a liar. No I don’t believe you and no one does, because you have proven time and time again that you are not worthy of being taken seriously or believed.”
        4) “You’re scared of the polls and run away from them because you cannot deny them. They pretend a truth that you either refuse to accept or can’t easily explain away.”

        OK, Shingo, let’s start with your above complaints which all are directed to me, not to the issue:

        You want me to Back up my claims. Actually, whenever I did it, my sources were ignored or rejected immediately. Not many were brave enough to read the sources and refer to them seriously. Let me, please, give several examples: I sent an important article criticizes the treatment of Israel by the Arab world, an article that was published and spread all over, and the only response I received here was “BS Hasbara”. No one was brave enough to deal with the content of it.
        I sent an official video of the Hizb-Allah (Hezbollah) calling for destruction of Israel, and I received “they didn’t mean it!!”. I sent many videos about the coexistence in the Israeli educational system and received no replies. I sent an article about arresting Jewish-Israelis racists and received the response “only two racists”. So, now, tell me what should I send in order to back up my claim? Any source will be rejected with the phrase “BS Hasbara”. Why your polls and resources are truth and my are false? Where all the brave readers here that can deal with my sources? The answer is simple: You ignore things that are not stand with your anti-Zionist agenda and don’t bother to deal with them. In contrary, I never run from any issue and try to respond to each question and claim (then you say I am a troll, doesn’t matter).

        There are things that can’t be backed up. How do you want me to back up my claim that the Israeli society is a tolerant society? The only thing I can say is that a Palestinian family can sit in close table in the restaurant while Phil interviews three young Israelis. Unfortunately, I can’t sit with my family in a restaurant in center of Kalkilya and be relaxed. How do you want me to back up “fear”? To send you a video with the title “The cancelled visit of Mahane’s family to Jenin”?

        In several cases, readers emphasis on part of the source they77 bring that is convenient to them. When I want to emphasis on other parts I receive response like the following one: link to mondoweiss.net

        I don’t know if you speak Hebrew but there is a biblical phrase בתוך עמי אני יושב means “’I dwell among mine own people”. We use it when we want to say that a person lives among the people knows several things about them. So, as a person that lives in Jerusalem next to Arab neighborhood all his life, works in the center of the city, speaks Arabic and interest in Arabic media, I allow my self to write my impressions and the truth from time to time, and I sure many times they are better than all your polls and backups. I sure the honest readers read my claims and many agree with them.

      • Shingo
        October 17, 2013, 3:51 am

        Actually, whenever I did it, my sources were ignored or rejected immediately

        If your sources are not credible, they will be. Telling people to look up videos on Youtube is hardly credible.

        I sent an important article criticizes the treatment of Israel by the Arab world, an article that was published and spread all over, and the only response I received here was “BS Hasbara”. No one was brave enough to deal with the content of it.

        Stop acting like a child. That was an op-ed by a token pro Israeli Arab who’s views are highly questionable. It was full of misinformation and half truths and outright lies. Seriously, if that’s your idea of a credible link and factual data, then are more stupid than I assumed.

        I sent an official video of the Hizb-Allah (Hezbollah) calling for destruction of Israel, and I received “they didn’t mean it!!”.

        And then we sent back a video and photos showing hundreds of white shirts in Jerusalem chanting “butcher the Arabs”, and you cliamed there were only a few and that the perpetrators were arrested.

        According to you, 2 of the hundreds were arrested and you claimed this was proof that Israel is not a racist society.

        How do you want me to back up my claim that the Israeli society is a tolerant society?

        Unless you can prove that ethnic cleansing, mass murder, occupation, home demolitions and land theft is not taking place, you can’t. While pogroms against Sudanese asylum seekers are taking place, you can’t.

        The only thing I can say is that a Palestinian family can sit in close table in the restaurant while Phil interviews three young Israelis.

        They might, but they do so at their own risk. How do you know that family would be relaxed given the lynchings that have taken place in Jerusalem? One minute you are insisting that kids in Jerusalem are not representative of Israeli Jews throughout Israel, on the other hand you want to insist that Jerusalem is a tolerant place.

        You can’t even stay on message.

        Look Mahane, you simply lack all credibility and basic understanding. You are not even seriously trying to present a logical argument, You simply want people to stop criticizing Israel, and rather than accept the racism and apartheid in Israel, you want to pretend it doesn’t exist.

      • German Lefty
        October 17, 2013, 5:37 am

        @ MahaneYehude1 & Shingo
        You simply want people to stop criticizing Israel, and rather than accept the racism and apartheid in Israel, you want to pretend it doesn’t exist.

        Right. Most Israeli Jews acknowledge that there’s apartheid in Israel. And they seem to be fine with the existing apartheid. 47% of Israeli Jews even support population transfer.
        link to haaretz.com

      • Shingo
        October 17, 2013, 6:14 am

        Now wait for Mahane to insist that none of the Israelis he knows agree with this and his impression tells him the opposite.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 17, 2013, 6:58 am

        @Shingo:

        See, again, “a token pro Israeli Arab” which means that I right: you don’t have to bother yourself with the facts and arguments this journalist wrote (or others wrote), you only say “token” and finish with the issue. It is me that has to prove you he is not a “token”. So let’s summarize – any pro-Israeli source is not credible but any anti-Israeli and anti-Zionist source is highly credible and much appreciated. Understand it!!!

        I repeat again: racism is a crime in the state of Israel. Israeli racists are arrested from time to time and spend time in jail. The Israeli media report about these crimes and you can find the reports by yourself. I only sent you ONE article in which TWO racists were arrested and since you say “only two”, “two only” and you repeated it again in your current reply.

        When was the last time you walked in the streets of Jerusalem? There is something basic that it is hard to you to understand: Those three young Israelis in Phil’s restaurant can express their feelings and even talk against the Arabs. But, and this is the difference, nothing will happen if a Palestinian family will take place in a close table in the same restaurant. And you know what? They can even sit together in the same table, discuss any issue and eat together. And yes, although many right-wings, Jerusalem is a very tolerant place like all places in the state of Israel. Even the anti-Israeli Palestinian-Israelis will agree with this claim.

        Pogroms against asylum seekers? Could you, please, tell me how many were killed in the pogroms? 50? 100? How many houses were burned? We all know the reason why you use the word “pogrom”. I sure that most people know what is the meaning of it and why you use the word “pogrom”.

        I have no credibility and basic understanding? The problem with me, Shingo, is that I have more than basic understanding, one of the reasons I am here.

        No, I don’t want people to stop criticizing Israel, since I also criticize my government in many issues and I think things in Israel goes sometimes wrong way. What I really want is nothing but the truth!! And this is one more reason I am here and will remain here: to bring other voice from Israel, the truth voice.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 17, 2013, 7:03 am

        @GL: 47% of Israeli Jews support population transfer, so, 53% of Israeli Jews don’t support population transfer:
        link to mondoweiss.net
        link to mondoweiss.net

      • Shingo
        October 17, 2013, 7:21 am

        47% of Israeli Jews support population transfer, so, 53% of Israeli Jews don’t support population transfer:

        No MY1. I told you to read the polls not spin them. 13% said they don’t know. That means a majority support population transfer.

        Proving that Israel is a fascist apartheid, intolerant state.

      • Shingo
        October 17, 2013, 7:31 am

        you don’t have to bother yourself with the facts and arguments this journalist wrote

        You don’t know what facts are. His piece was an op-ed, not facts. So stop wining like a child that your pathetic puff pieces are not taken seriously.

        I repeat again: racism is a crime in the state of Israel.

        False. Racism is written into Israelis laws. Israel’s very identity is based on racism and apartheid.

        If Israeli racists are arrested from time to time, it is not for racism. Police and IDF troops are seen enabling them.

        I only sent you ONE article in which TWO racists were arrested and since you say “only two”,

        You sent a report which you claimed addressed all those who were chanting “butcher the Arabs”. Only two were arrested among hundreds.

        When was the last time you walked in the streets of Jerusalem?

        About 4 years ago and I saw the vilest attitudes and discrimination against Arabs right before my eyes. Arabs being denied entry to restaurants that were half empty – the excuse given that they were fully booked, while Jews walked in without any problem.

        And I was unaware of it until it was pointed out to me.

        Could you, please, tell me how many were killed in the pogroms

        You work it out
        link to mondoweiss.net
        link to allafrica.com
        link to mediadiversityuk.com

        The reason I sue the word “pogrom” is because the reports tell us pogroms took place.

        Israel is a sick, racist, and fascist society MY1. There is no point denying it. If you don’t like being called racist, apartheid and fascist then do something about to put a stop to it.

        The problem with me, Shingo, is that I have more than basic understanding, one of the reasons I am here.

        No, the reason you are here it to try and repair the irreparable damage to Israel’s reputation and image. You are not interested in debate, you just want the bad PR to end.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 17, 2013, 8:10 am

        “@GL: 47% of Israeli Jews support population transfer, so, 53% of Israeli Jews don’t support population transfer:”

        Wow, a bare majority don’t want to commit massive crimes against humanity? You must be very, very proud. Thank the Gods for that 3% eh?

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 17, 2013, 8:14 am

        “I repeat again: racism is a crime in the state of Israel.”

        LMAO. Racism is the official ideology of the state of israel. There are numerous benefits which one gets as a Jew that one does not get as a non-Jew.

      • German Lefty
        October 17, 2013, 9:32 am

        47% of Israeli Jews support population transfer, so, 53% of Israeli Jews don’t support population transfer.

        From your recent posts, I can tell that you are Mahane1. Mahane2, the one with the perfect English, doesn’t want to talk to me for whatever reason.
        Anyway, please answer this question: How would you react if you learnt that 47% of ethnic Germans want to expatriate Jewish Germans?
        a) “Oh, great! That means 53% of ethnic Germans don’t support it.”
        b) “Oh no! The next holocaust is about to happen! There must be an international intervention before it’s too late.”

      • hophmi
        October 17, 2013, 2:17 pm

        “How would you react if you learnt that 47% of ethnic Germans want to expatriate Jewish Germans?”

        I’d wonder why Germans suck so much. However, if Germany had been at war with Poland for three generations, and had a large Polish minority that frequently showed public solidarity with the Poles in their struggle against the Germans, I would wonder why the numbers were not much higher.

        So your analogy doesn’t make much sense.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 17, 2013, 4:43 pm

        @Shingo: I thought you are a clever person and understand sarcasm. When I said “47% of Israeli Jews support population transfer, so, 53% of Israeli Jews don’t support population transfer” I only express my opinion on those “polls” and, actually, I gave a reply that is similar to your former reply.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 17, 2013, 5:31 pm

        @Shingo: Tell me, please, are you seriously replied my arguments?

        When I give an example you have to understand that it is only one representing thing. I don’t understand why you always refer to the example and not to the whole picture, like you refer specifically to one article, one poll etc. and don’t reply my general argument that any source I bring is rejected immediately with strange explanations.

        When I asked “Could you, please, tell me how many were killed in the pogroms?” you sent an articles and MW post that also used the word “pogrom” and for you it is a proof that what happened is a pogrom. I really can’t understand the logic behind it. Again, you are running from the issue, don’t bother yourself to deal with even one argument honestly. I don’t expect you to agree with me, but at least to reply honestly and deal with the claims.

        “If Israeli racists are arrested from time to time, it is not for racism” – Really??

        “Arabs being denied entry to restaurants (in Jerusalem)” – Are you sure, Shingo? How do you want me believe you when you can’t deal with even not one of my arguments? I am absolutely sure that this is not truth. Is there any Israeli-Palestinian here in MW that can confirm Shingo’s “observation” that Arabs being denied entry to restaurants?? Where are you?

        “You are not interested in debate” – and you, Shingo, do you interest in debate or you can only analyze my personality? Could you answer honestly at least one question or refer seriously to at least one claim? I am not sure.

        “you just want the bad PR to end” – I repeat again, I want the truth and only truth, the real truth as I see it in my eyes every day and not your “truth” such as your pogroms and Israeli restaurants.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 17, 2013, 5:47 pm

        Woody and GL:

        Please read the below comments to learn the sarcasm behind the “47% of Israeli Jews support population transfer, so, 53% of Israeli Jews don’t support population transfer” and to know my opinion on polls:
        link to mondoweiss.net
        link to mondoweiss.net

      • Shingo
        October 18, 2013, 3:47 am

        However, if Germany had been at war with Poland for three generations, and had a large Polish minority that frequently showed public solidarity with the Poles in their struggle against the Germans, I would wonder why the numbers were not much higher.

        False comparison. You would have to add the fact that Germany was occupying Poland, stealing Polish land, ethnically cleansing Poles and building settlements in Poland.

      • Shingo
        October 18, 2013, 4:43 am

        I don’t understand why you always refer to the example and not to the whole picture, like you refer specifically to one article, one poll etc. and don’t reply my general argument that any source I bring is rejected immediately with strange explanations.

        It’s pretty simple MY1. In empirical reasoning, if your example is false, then it it followed that what you claim the example represents is also false.

        That’s Logic 101.

        and you, Shingo, do you interest in debate or you can only analyze my personality?

        I couldn’t care less about your personality, but I am interested in your dishonesty and deception.

        I repeat again, I want the truth and only truth, the real truth as I see it in my eyes every day and not your “truth” such as your pogroms and Israeli restaurants.

        I am not talking about my truth, because I a never being up what my impression is.

      • Shingo
        October 18, 2013, 4:55 am

        When I asked “Could you, please, tell me how many were killed in the pogroms?” you sent an articles and MW post that also used the word “pogrom” and for you it is a proof that what happened is a pogrom.

        Stop lying. I sent you also a report that described the persecution as a pogrom.
        link to allafrica.com
        link to mediadiversityuk.com

        I am hardly running from the issue.

        When I asked “Could you, please, tell me how many were killed in the pogroms?”

        You are the one that is being dishonest. No one needs to be killed for a pogrom to take place.

        “A pogrom is a violent massacre or persecution of an ethnic or religious group , particularly one aimed at Jews.”
        link to en.wikipedia.org

        “Arabs being denied entry to restaurants (in Jerusalem)” – Are you sure, Shingo? How do you want me believe you when you can’t deal with even not one of my arguments? I am absolutely sure that this is not truth.

        It’s your word against mine, but like I said, I was not even aware it was happening until a friend (who lives in Tev Aviv) pointed it out to me.

        Could you answer honestly at least one question or refer seriously to at least one claim?

        Yes, I have repeatedly, with links which have caused you to retreat to your now familiar fallback position that your impression says otherwise.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 18, 2013, 9:45 am

        @Shingo: OK, let’s break the cycle: You are running from all issues, can’t explain any of your arguments, and don’t understand simple logic. When you bring articles, even one hundreds, that use the same language like you, it doesn’t mean they back up you.

        “if your example is false…” – How do you know it false if the only response is “BS Hasbara”. What about reading and refer to the specific arguments in the articles and sources I sent? like in the following comment:
        link to mondoweiss.net

        “…with links which have caused you to retreat to your now familiar fallback position that your impression says otherwise” – So, my observations is not acceptable but your observations (like that Arabs can’t enter Israeli restaurants) is the only truth.

        I have nothing to add and let the honest readers read and decide for themselves about the truth. Git Shabbes!!

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 18, 2013, 10:02 am

        ” However, if Germany had been at war with Poland for three generations,”

        Well, if the israeli Jews didn’t want a war with the Palestinians, they shouldn’t have started it.

      • hophmi
        October 18, 2013, 10:29 am

        “False comparison. You would have to add the fact that Germany was occupying Poland, stealing Polish land, ethnically cleansing Poles and building settlements in Poland.”

        There haven’t been settlements for the last 75 years.

        My comparison is valid; you’re just an Australian extremist who lives to insult others.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 18, 2013, 11:35 am

        “There haven’t been settlements for the last 75 years.”

        Nonsense. There’ve been settlements ever since the zionists began invading Palestine without the permission of its people. The settlement city of Tel Aviv is 114 years old.

      • Shingo
        October 19, 2013, 5:56 am

        You are running from all issues, can’t explain any of your arguments, and don’t understand simple logic. When you bring articles, even one hundreds, that use the same language like you, it doesn’t mean they back up you.

        Stop pretending here that you have a cogent argument MY1. You have no argument, and no credibility, and you are the one running into the hole you crawled out of every time someone presents you with facts.

        How do you know it false if the only response is “BS Hasbara”.

        For the 100th time, we know it’s false by testing your claims against available sources. You do not site sources, therefore there is nothing to refer to. The only thing you refer to is your opinion and what you believe.

        So, my observations is not acceptable but your observations

        No they are not, because I know you are lying based on my own experiences and available evidence.

        You are a time waster and a troll.

      • OlegR
        October 14, 2013, 6:14 pm

        Phil next time go interview a Beitar club fans they will give a lot juicier
        stuff.
        /I am wrong when I say that half of Israeli society expresses similar views?/
        More then half the Israeli society voted a for a coalition that currently engages with the Palestinians about the 2SS.
        And yes you should talk with other political streams in Israel besides the negligible one represented by Gurwitz or the
        Religious national movements.

      • Shingo
        October 14, 2013, 8:18 pm

        More then half the Israeli society voted a for a coalition that currently engages with the Palestinians about the 2SS.

        Yes, very funny Oleg. The very coalition who uniformly ran on a platform rejecting the 2ss.

      • Donald
        October 14, 2013, 11:08 pm

        “More then half the Israeli society voted a for a coalition that currently engages with the Palestinians about the 2SS.”

        That’s funny. Engaging about the 2SS is a great way to pass the time while building settlements and maintaining an apartheid system. Netanyahu is such a convincing peace advocate, so obviously dedicated to a just solution for both sides.

      • Theo
        October 15, 2013, 10:40 am

        OlegR

        Israel is “negotiating” since 1967, however has absolutly no intention to change the present status. Eretz Israel is the ultimate zionist goal and those fanatic orthodox settlers in the WB will never agree to anything less.
        What would you do with the 600,000 settlers, even if they agree to be resettled into Israel? You would turn that land into a chaos, so it is better to have them “segregated” on palestinian land.

      • Cliff
        October 17, 2013, 7:11 am

        Engages with Palestinians on the 2ss? HOW?

        Get new material.

    • amigo
      October 14, 2013, 3:20 pm

      Mehane 1?2?3.

      “For the sake of balanced journalism, please expand your “area” and bring us other voices from Israel.”

      May we see a similar request for, say, the J Post.

      show us some of your balance.

      • Walid
        October 14, 2013, 6:49 pm

        You’re right, amigo, there is a third that’s very articulate, but he doesn’t have the politeness of the second that opens and closes a post with extreme courtesy.

    • seafoid
      October 14, 2013, 3:21 pm

      The IDF “hol den arab aus dem keller” Jews are fascinating. There are even Jews who refuse to serve. Of course thank god for gush shalom. only 90% of zionist israelis are sectarian bigots and that is because palestinians hate their children. I sell potatoes from my stall to 2 jews who would employ palestinian gardeners.

    • amigo
      October 14, 2013, 3:34 pm

      “For the sake of balanced journalism, please expand your “area” and bring us other voices from Israel. Mehane 1?2? 3?.

      Mehane, didn,t your Hasbara handlers tell you that bringing other voices is your job.

      It,s not as if you have to go out on the streets and look for other voices.It is all in your mail box every morning from Hasbara central or in your handbook.

      Phil has to work at it.

    • Woody Tanaka
      October 14, 2013, 3:58 pm

      “For the sake of balanced journalism,”

      Who said that this kind of faux “balance” is a worthy goal? The policies of that wretched state are such that a well-informed outsider would think that the entire electorate was as racist as these people.

    • German Lefty
      October 14, 2013, 5:26 pm

      @ MahaneYehude1

      Knowing the diversity of the Israeli society, it is impossible that all the Israelis you meet say the same things

      48.9% of Israeli Jews agree with the statement that Jewish citizens should have more rights than non-Jewish citizens. Analyzing the data by age shows that the youngest age group (18–24) clearly agrees (65.4%), to a much greater extent than the others, with the granting of additional rights to Jews.
      43.8% of Israeli Jews agree with the statement that the government should encourage Arabs to emigrate. Breaking down the responses by age produces a troubling result, consistent with previous findings on the opinions of Jewish young people: support for encouraging Arab emigration shows a significant and consistent rise as the age group drops. In other words, the youngest age group (18–24) is the most in favor of encouraging Arab emigration (57.7%).
      Source: Israeli Democracy Index 2013 (page 90-95)
      link to en.idi.org.il

      • Philip Weiss
        October 14, 2013, 7:50 pm

        Thanks German, I knew those figures were out there. That’s the youth opinion I felt was being reflected in my conversation

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 15, 2013, 12:01 pm

        @GL: There are more in this poll that you ignore, like that 40% of Israeli-Arabs are proud to be Israelis reported in page 80 (How do you explain it?).

        I already wrote about this 2013 poll of the “Israel Democracy Institute” and you can read it here:
        link to mondoweiss.net

        I appreciate if you send me the poll done by any Palestinian society that check the Palestinian society views. It will be interesting to know what they think about us.

      • Shingo
        October 16, 2013, 3:54 am

        There are more in this poll that you ignore, like that 40% of Israeli-Arabs are proud to be Israelis reported in page 80 (How do you explain it?).

        The fact that 56% are not proud.

        It will be interesting to know what they think about us.

        Probably the same as the rest of us – that you are an apartheid, fascist society.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 16, 2013, 5:42 am

        @Shingo: OK, I understand: 44% Israeli-Arabs proud to be Israelis, so 56% are not proud!!! Maybe next time when you send me poll states 44% Israeli-Jews are racist, I will write “56% are not racist” and finish with the issue. Excellent response!!

      • freespeechlover
        October 16, 2013, 1:24 pm

        I agree with you that the situation or condition is sick, and that there is sickness in both societies and among both peoples as a result. But there’s a danger in moralizing a political problem, which is one reason why Israel has been permitted to become an apartheid regime. The danger lies in the urge to always normalize what Israel is and has become, knee jerk defense of its aggression, etc. This is the role that the US takes on in terms of Israeli public relations–to moralize political subjugation and dress it up in different terms at different historical moments, so that Israel’s racism stays central to its existence even as its form changes over time. The problem though is that the US public cannot just change its government’s policies, largely because the US is going through a process of de-democratization. This is a result of a kind of hyper-securitization of the world in which the nation-state exists increasingly as a series of walls and walled off populations, aimed at convenying national sovereignty when in fact sovereignty has disappeared with the traversing of borders in commerce and belief. These walls hide dependency on cheap and foreign labor but also on those deemed “threats.” Israel’s problem lies in thinking of “Jewish” as a kind of wall that will protect, when at this moment in time, “Jewish” is not functioning as protection but rather as the vehicle for obscuring how much Israel is founded on and depends on the “other” it has negated. A “Jewish” state at this point in time and with the meanings attached to it that this website documents cannot be separated from the people it continues to pretend don’t really exist. Palestinians don’t have the luxury of denial. And US citizens have to re-democratize their society in order to break down the increasingly global political isolation that the US and Israel find themselves within.

      • German Lefty
        October 16, 2013, 1:50 pm

        @ MahaneYehude1

        40% of Israeli-Arabs are proud to be Israelis
        Well, there can be several reasons for this. For example: brainwashing, self-delusion, desperate attempt to be accepted by the Zionist Israelis.
        Also, you have to consider that the question was: “How proud are you to be an Israeli?” Imagine that the question would have been: “How proud are you to be a citizen of the Jewish State?” Do you think that any non-Jew would have answered “very proud” or “quite proud”?

        I appreciate if you send me the poll done by any Palestinian society that check the Palestinian society views.
        Here: link to pcpsr.org

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 17, 2013, 7:17 am

        @GL: “Imagine that the question would have been…”

        Correct!! So, if this is your argument I think you must also reject the rest of the findings that you insist to quote many times.

        That’s the reason why I don’t like polls. Most of the answers are rooted in the questions. Now you imagine that instead of the question: “What is the worse country in the world: Iran, N. Korea or Israel?” the question would be: “What is the worse country in the world?”. Or instead of “Do you support transfer?” the question would be “What is your solution?”. imagine, just imagine…

      • Annie Robbins
        October 17, 2013, 3:13 pm

        like that 40% of Israeli-Arabs are proud to be Israelis reported in page 80 (How do you explain it?).

        interesting question and i think it might be as a result of the context in which they were asked. Chapter 4 is: Citizens, the State, Politics, and Society and the 1st set of questions deal w/ Figure 35: To what extent do you feel part of the State of Israel and its problems?

        the largest percentage or palestinian israelis (32.1%) answered ‘to some extent’ and 12.8 answered ‘to a large extent’, and 15.4 ‘a very large extent’ which roughly gives us an outcome of 60.+% saying the problems of the state are their problems, as opposed to a more disengaged attitude. whereas amongst jewish israeli respondents 66% answered large or very large. regardless of how much someone supports the state it’s still normal to feel like the problems of a state are their problems, and that’s reflected in the results. the report reads:

        Among the Arab interviewees, by contrast, only 28.2% feel connected to the state and its problems to a large or very large extent; an additional third (32.1%) feel this way to some extent; and a further third (34%) feel a part of the state to only a small or very small extent

        now listen to this next part, and see if you hear what i hear:

        The distribution of responses in the Jewish sample cannot be interpreted in more than one way: a clear majority feel part of the state and its problems, and only a small minority are the exceptions to the rule, that is, they do not feel a sense of belonging.

        iow, the analysts have transposed the degree of affiliation w/state problems to ‘belonging’.

        However, the distribution of responses among the Arab interviewees is certainly open to different interpretations. For example, a more optimistic approach would combine those who feel a sense of belonging to a large or very large extent with the third who report this feeling to some extent, for a total of slightly less than two thirds. According to this argument, given the fact that we are speaking of a state that defines itself as Zionist, whose symbols are exclusively Jewish and whose Arab residents do not enjoy recognition of their collective national rights, this is
        quite a high level of identification by a minority with the state in
        which it resides. Relating to the figure of 19.9%, this interpretation
        would argue that in fact only this percentage claim that they do not feel a sense of belonging

        so this is interesting. they do not say 19.9%, this interpretation
        would argue that in fact only this percentage claim that they do
        not feel part of the State of Israel and its problems, (the phrasing in the question) they say ‘belonging’.

        so what are the chances an israeli palestinian would feel a sense of belonging where they are, in their ancestral homeland? if you were to ask the bedouins if they belonged in what is now the state of israel do you think they would say yes? it is possible someone could feel proud because they managed to remain on their land given the massive amount of efforts that’s gone into removing them. there’s even an argument to be made that of all the people who have israeli citizenship, palestinian israelis could very well feel like they belong there more than anyone else. it’s just a thought. the way 2 people (palestinian israelis) interpret a question could be vastly different and their answers will reflect that, when, in fact they may feel exactly the same way. it’s just a thought.

      • seafoid
        October 17, 2013, 4:10 pm

        It is their land regardless of the insanity of the regime in place. And Zionism is for the birds.

    • Shingo
      October 14, 2013, 5:43 pm

      Knowing the diversity of the Israeli society, it is impossible that all the Israelis you meet say the same things (like the seven people you reported a month ago).

      I don’t know why you’re complaining MY1. On the whole, these kids sound a lot like you.

      • German Lefty
        October 16, 2013, 1:52 pm

        I don’t know why you’re complaining MY1. On the whole, these kids sound a lot like you.

        Shingo, you are very funny.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 17, 2013, 7:07 am

        @GL: I agree with you: Shingo is really very funny.

    • amigo
      October 14, 2013, 6:38 pm

      Here Mehane–read about your racist society

      The Association for Civil Rights in Israel (ACRI) published reports documenting racism in Israel, and the 2007 report suggested that anti-Arab racism in the country was increasing. One analysis of the report summarized it thus: “Over two-thirds Israeli teens believe Arabs to be less intelligent, uncultured and violent. Over a third of Israeli teens fear Arabs all together….The report becomes even grimmer, citing the ACRI’s racism poll, taken in March 2007, in which 50% of Israelis taking part said they would not live in the same building as Arabs, will not befriend, or let their children befriend Arabs and would not let Arabs into their homes.”[13] The 2008 report from ACRI says the trend of increasing racism is continuing.[14] An Israeli minister charged the poll as biased and not credible.[15] The Israeli government spokesman responded that the Israeli government was “committed to fighting racism whenever it raises it ugly head and is committed to full equality to all Israeli citizens, irrespective of ethnicity, creed or background, as defined by our declaration of independence”.[15] Isi Leibler of the Jerusalem Center for Public affairs argues that Israeli Jews are troubled by “increasingly hostile, even treasonable outbursts by Israeli Arabs against the state” while it is at war with neighboring countries,[16]

      Another 2007 report, by the Center Against Racism, also found hostility against Arabs was on the rise. Among its findings it reported that 75%of Israeli Jews don’t approve of Arabs and Jews sharing apartment buildings; that over half of Jews wouldn’t want to have an Arab boss and that marrying an Arab amounts to “national treason”; and that 55% of the sample thought Arabs should be kept separate from Jews in entertainment sites. Half wanted the Israeli government to encourage Israeli Arabs to emigrate. About 40% believed Arab citizens should have their voting rights removed.[17]

      A March 2010 poll by Tel Aviv University found that 49.5% of Israeli Jewish high school students believe Israeli Arabs should not be entitled to the same rights as Jews in Israel. 56% believe Arabs should not be eligible to the Knesset, the Israeli parliament.[18]

      An October 2010 poll by the Dahaf polling agency found that 36% of Israeli Jews favor eliminating voting rights for non-Jews.[19] In recent polling (2003–2009) between 42% and 56% of Israelis agreed that “Israeli Arabs suffer from discrimination as opposed to Jewish citizens;” 80% of Israeli Arabs agreed with that statement in 2009
      link link to en.wikipedia.org

      Now please go away and look more closely at your so called Light unto the Nations.It reeks of racism and bigotry.Step into the real Israel and open your nostrils and smell the stench.

  6. Dutch
    October 14, 2013, 4:57 pm

    This talk about ‘Arabs’ bothers me a lot, when actually Palestinians are meant. When it comes to their rights to ther land, the Palestinians are Levantine. Their ancestors are Canaanites of origin, going back some 7,000 years.

    Calling them ‘Arabs’ suggests they are import, and might as well live in one of the other ‘Arab’ countries (‘They have 20+ countries and 300 million brothers’). It also suggests that their rights, if any at all, are of a more recent date than those of the Jews — and thus useless and void.

    I realize the ‘arabization’ – culturally and religiously – that is in place among many Palestinians, that for this reason consider themselves Arab in those respects. There is no reason to confuse this with their Levantine roots.

    I think it’s worthwhile to be more citical ourselves as to how Palestinians are addressed. And to challenge the ‘Arab’ narrative more directly.

    • Walid
      October 14, 2013, 7:05 pm

      “This talk about ‘Arabs’ bothers me a lot, when actually Palestinians are meant. ”

      You’re right Dutch, but this is one of the Zionists’ ploy to erase the Palestinians that remained in Israel. The tactic is to never refer to them as “Palestinians” but rather as “Arabs” to colour them as immigrants to the land as you said. What to say when you read such garbage as from the article that Mahane 2 posted here on the “Bra” thread, written by an Israeli Palestinian turncoat, Khaled Abu-Tohmeh that parrots the Zionist jargon about Israeli “Arabs” and West Bank and Gaza “Palestinians”:

      “… Arab citizens of Israel can act as a bridge between Jews and Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. The Israeli Arab dilemma is that their State of Israel is in conflict with their people, the Palestinians. While most Israeli Arabs would like to see a Palestinian state and a better life for the Palestinians, they would nevertheless prefer to stay inside Israel for two reasons: First, this has always been their home. Second, they have always been comfortable in Israel despite all the challenges facing them.

      • Dutch
        October 14, 2013, 8:05 pm

        Walid, thanks for your pov. As for the article you mention: there are no limits when it comes to weaving it all together into a comfortable narrative, does it? Exactly the reason why I brought it up. The way the kids in Phil’s video address Palestinians in auto mode makes me shiver.

      • seafoid
        October 15, 2013, 1:08 am

        They rarely use the term “Palestinian” and when they do it is usually preceded by “so-called”. They mean to verbally deracinate their own Palestinian citizens every time they call them “Israeli Arabs”. Most MSM use this term as well. Arabs are alien and attract all the opprobium of the orientalist stereotype. They have 22 countries to choose from and land has no meaning for them. Jerusalem is only 3rd most important for them and so on.
        They are afraid of the power of the word “Palestinian”.

      • hophmi
        October 14, 2013, 10:15 pm

        I have no problem referring to people as whatever they wish, but it’s very problematic for Israelis to refer to Palestinians living in Israel as Palestinians. They are Israelis, after all. I don’t know how the hyphens work there.

        But I don’t think it’s correct, at all, to assume that the reference to Palestinians as Arab is a way of delegitimizing their link to the land. It’s really no different in America. We refer to, for instance, Ecuadorian-Americans as Hispanic or Latino more often than we refer to them as Ecuadorian. I think that for the most part, Arabs think of Israeli Jews as Jews, and Israeli Jews think of Israeli Arabs as Arabs, just as they think of Israeli Druze as Druze, and Israeli Christians as Christians.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 14, 2013, 11:43 pm

        @Walid:

        “You’re right Dutch, but this is one of the Zionists’ ploy to erase the Palestinians that remained in Israel. The tactic is to never refer to them as “Palestinians” but rather as “Arabs” to colour them as immigrants to the land as you said.”

        I think you didn’t visit Israel a long time. In daily life, the Palestinians here call themselves Arabs. The Palestinian in general don’t say “Palestinian village, food, etc” but “Arab village, food, etc”. Please, notice this phenomenon.

      • Inanna
        October 15, 2013, 4:42 am

        You’re just proving Walid’s point. You are deliberately trying to erase anything distinctively Levantine/Canaanite/Palestinian out of the Palestinian population. Repeating the hasbara ad infinitum does not actually make it true. Perhaps when you understand how a Jew can be an Arab then you’ll have an understanding of how a Palestinian can be an Arab and still be Palestinian.

      • seafoid
        October 15, 2013, 5:09 am

        ” In daily life, the Palestinians here call themselves Arabs.”

        Oppressors always come out with the same crap. Perhaps Hebrew doesn’t have a word for Palestinian. But start talking to them bil arbi and the richness emerges. Say “allah ya’tik al afya ” and watch faces light up.

      • hophmi
        October 15, 2013, 6:09 am

        I understand how a Jew can be an Arab just fine. I’d like to know how much Arabs understand it, given that most Jewish identity in the Arab world has been erased.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 15, 2013, 6:25 am

        @seafoid: Sah. Very Ridiculous comment – to tell me how to talk to my neighbors. Any way, thanks for the lesson.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 15, 2013, 6:34 am

        @Inanna: Please, read the above comments again. Several people here have theories why we call the Palestinians “Arabs”. All I said is that they (the Palestinians) call themselves “Arabs”, so what is the point of the above arguments?

        “Perhaps when you understand how a Jew can be an Arab then you’ll have an understanding of how a Palestinian can be an Arab and still be Palestinian”

        I have no problems with that – a Jew can be an Arab as well as Palestinian, and still can be Israeli or Palestinian, respectivly. Read my former comments and learn how I refer the Palestinians before writing your comments.

      • kayq
        October 15, 2013, 7:41 am

        seafoid, Hebrew does. ‘palestinai’ for Palestinians, unfortunately bigotry gets in the way whether it be anti-Palestinian or anti-Arab.

        It’s a real shame.

        Also you’re wrong MY1. They don’t refer to themselves as 3Arab Israeel (Arabs of Israel/Israeli Arabs), there might be a minority who do but they call themselves 3Arab48 or Palestinians within Israel mostly.

      • Theo
        October 15, 2013, 10:48 am

        Not true, hophmi

        I met jews in Tunis who live there since over a millenium, who live a jewish life and have no intentions to emigrate to Israel.
        Iran still has ca. 50,000 jews who second the sentiments of their tunisian brothers.

        Not the arabs chased the jews out their countries, but zionist conniving, including Mossad bomb attacks on them, forced them to immigrate. I would bet that quite a few would like to move back, if they could.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 15, 2013, 12:11 pm

        @kayq: Again, in daily life, the Palestinians call themselves Arabs and I don’t think they see any problem with this. The above argument that we call them Arabs to erase their identity is nonsense and pointless since they say Arabs too. BTW, the Israeli PM says “The negotiation with the Palestinians…” or “I talked to the Palestinian representative…” etc, Also, Israeli newspapers and media call them Palestinians so all the above arguments are no more than imagination.

      • Annie Robbins
        October 15, 2013, 12:12 pm

        which neighborhood do you live in mahane? that you can overhear their conversations. a neighborhood in east jerusalem? haifa? the galilee? hebron? tel aviv? what is the name of your neighborhood.

      • Annie Robbins
        October 15, 2013, 12:17 pm

        the Israeli PM says “The negotiation with the Palestinians…”

        and he’s not talking about palestinians who are israeli citizens

        Also, Israeli newspapers and media call them Palestinians so all the above arguments are no more than imagination.

        perhaps you could link to an israeli news source referencing palestinian israelis as palestinians.

      • hophmi
        October 15, 2013, 12:17 pm

        “I met jews in Tunis who live there since over a millenium, who live a jewish life and have no intentions to emigrate to Israel.”

        Yes, and I know African-Americans who are against interracial marriage. The exception proves the rule.

        “Iran still has ca. 50,000 jews who second the sentiments of their tunisian brothers. ”

        I think it’s more like 25,000, and I don’t trust the sentiments of people who live in a country with no free speech. And weirdly, Iran’s own census records far less than 25,000 (about 8,500) which is telling.

        “Not the arabs chased the jews out their countries, ”

        Yes, I know, I know. They’re never responsible for anything they do.

        ” I would bet that quite a few would like to move back, if they could.”

        You would bet? I’ll take that bet. Easy money for me.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 15, 2013, 1:47 pm

        @Annie: Why do you ask about my neighborhood? Do you want to come visit? As an Arab, I speak Arabic, mainly in my neighborhood and in my work place. Why it is hard to believe that an Israeli Zionist like me is familiar with the Arabs and Arab culture? What’s the problem?

      • Walid
        October 15, 2013, 2:23 pm

        “I think you didn’t visit Israel a long time. ”

        Mahane 1 (the original one), I have never visited Israel and I don’t have the intention of visiting it either until it repents and changes its sinful ways by restituting that which has stolen from the Palestinians. The Palestinians are of course Arabs; what’s being discussed here is how Israel goes way out of its way to deliberately call them Arabs (and not Palestinians) to enforce its claim that there was “no such thing as a Palestinian”. If this is difficult to grasp, consult your tag-team partner, Mahane 2 (the literate one).

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 15, 2013, 2:35 pm

        @Walid:

        As long as they call themselves Arabs, I don’t see any problem and your theory is wrong, because we see them as integral part of our society. The phrase “no such thing as a Palestinian” is an old tired idea and no body can deny their existent and that they are Palestinians. I personally call them Israeli-Palestinians and I have no problem with that.

        Also your second theory is wrong and I think not many buy it.

      • Walid
        October 15, 2013, 2:50 pm

        “I’d like to know how much Arabs understand it, given that most Jewish identity in the Arab world has been erased.” (Hophmi)

        There’s an open invitation for Jews to return to Iraq and Egypt. Jews in Morocco always felt more at home there than in Israel and those that left Tunis at its independence took up France’s offer of a French citizenship while the other half opted for Israel. Lebanon has almost finished restoring the magnificent Magen Avraham Synagogue so what the heck are you talking about?

        From a BBC article 5 months back about the Tunisian Jews.:

        “… The head of the Jewish community in Tunisia, Perez Trebelsi, however, questions the narrative of some Western historians that Jews were also persecuted under Tunisian President Habib Bourguiba, the founder of the republic after independence from France in 1956.

        “Bourguiba put all Tunisians on an equal footing, excluded nationalists, and annulled Sharia-compliant articles in the constitution like the ones related to polygamy and inheritance,” Mr Trebelsi says.

        He insists that “socialist policies, especially in the key agricultural sector, forced many Jewish businessmen to emigrate to Europe for better economic landscapes”.

        “Anti-Jewish sentiments ran high during the [1967] Six-Day War,” he recalls. “Some [Tunisian] Jews came under attack but from mobs. It was individual practices really, not systematic”.

        Khodir Hanyna, a native Djerba businessman, wants to dispel stereotypical impressions of Tunisian Jewry.

        “The way Tunisian Jews are portrayed in the media is greatly exaggerated,” he insists, in a mixture of dialectal Arabic and French spoken by all Tunisians.

        “I found most of the articles written on us were just sensational,” adds Mr Hanyna, who spends most of his time of the year dividing his time between Tunisia and France.

        Waiting for his turn to be blessed by one of the synagogue’s rabbis, Mr Hanyna says that although Tunisia is an overwhelmingly Muslim country, Jews never felt forced to leave their motherland. ”

        link to bbc.co.uk

      • hophmi
        October 15, 2013, 2:59 pm

        “There’s an open invitation for Jews to return to Iraq and Egypt.”

        Thanks, but no thanks. Both are dysfunctional countries, and both do not have a great record when it comes to treatment of minorities.

        “Jews in Morocco always felt more at home there than in Israel and those that left Tunis at its independence took up France’s offer of a French citizenship while the other half opted for Israel. Lebanon has almost finished restoring the magnificent Magen Avraham Synagogue so what the heck are you talking about?”

        Morocco, yes. The royal family treated Jews well, and they’re the exception that proves the rule. But even they can’t prevent Islamic terrorism.

        I’m talking about reality, not public relations. What the heck are you talking about? No, Jews SHOULD go live in countries run by Hezbollah. They’re all rushing there, didn’t ya hear.

        Here’s one who doesn’t seem to agree on Bourguiba. link to jewishrefugees.blogspot.com

      • RoHa
        October 15, 2013, 9:06 pm

        “The exception proves the rule. ”

        You really don’t know what that means, do you? It is the old sense of “prove”, and means “tests”.

        As a matter of simple logic, the exception disproves the rule

      • Shingo
        October 16, 2013, 3:22 am

        As a matter of simple logic, the exception disproves the rule

        It looks like Hop has been conversing with MY1 and unlearned his grasp of the English language.

      • Walid
        October 16, 2013, 10:37 am

        Hophmi, about that open invitation from Egypt and Iraq, I wouldn’t live there either, but the invitation is still there nonetheless and this is what I’m saying. Jews may not be responding to the invitations for whatever reasons, but the invitation is still there.

        That halfof the existing Tunisian Jews opted to go to France rather than to Israel, that should tell you something on how this refusing half felt about the Zionist enterprise. That almost the totality of Lebanese Jews refused to leave all the way up to 1975, which is 26 years after the establishment of the Zionist state, that too should tell you something.

        You talk of HIzbullah running countries whereas Hizbullah doesn’t run any country at all but rather simply has a very substantial influence over 40% of Lebanon’s population that is Shia. But it doesn’t run the country although it has an important say in it. Hizbullah has Israelis so spooked, they see it controlling other countries.

  7. Shingo
    October 14, 2013, 5:58 pm

    Matanya begins by explaining why it is necessary to act in Syria, and why the old are reluctant to do so. “Younger people have fire in their eyes” and are willing to die for their “ideals.” Matanya says he is willing to serve in Syria, whatever the risk.

    “We have to do something. Something serious.”

    Please Bibbi,

    If you’re reading this. Be sure to send these your kids with fire in their eyes to the front line when you decide to start the next war with Hezbollah.

    Let’s see how long it takes for the fire in the eyes to turn to tears and trauma.

  8. German Lefty
    October 14, 2013, 6:07 pm

    Don’t these three teenagers know who you two are? If not, how did you introduce yourselves? Did you tell them that the video is for your website?

    • hophmi
      October 14, 2013, 10:19 pm

      Why would they?

      Israelis generally are not afraid to talk to people who disagree with them; they’re gregarious people, and they’re proud of their country.

      Teenager, like drunk college students, may not have the sophistication to realize the agenda expressed in the questions.

      • eljay
        October 16, 2013, 12:45 pm

        >> Israelis generally are not afraid to talk to people who disagree with them; they’re gregarious people, and they’re proud of their country.

        It’s bad enough that they’re proud of a country that, less than 70 years ago, was realized as an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist “Jewish State” thanks to Jewish terrorism and the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their homes and lands.

        What’s truly dismal is that they are proud of their oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist “Jewish State” even as it continues to oppress, steal, occupy, cleanse, colonize, destroy, torture and kill.

      • hophmi
        October 16, 2013, 1:29 pm

        “What’s truly dismal is that they are proud of their oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist “Jewish State” even as it continues to oppress, steal, occupy, cleanse, colonize, destroy, torture and kill.”

        Uh-huh. Because the Chinese are not proud of China, which executes juveniles. Because the Russians are not proud of Russia, an authoritarian state that has killed tens of thousands of people in Chechnya. Because Americans are not proud of America, even though its wars in Afghanistan and Iraq led to a couple hundred thousand dead people. Because Saudi Arabians are not proud of Saudi Arabia, which treats women like chattel.

        No, the Israelis are less human than the rest of us, right, Eljay?

      • eljay
        October 17, 2013, 8:12 am

        >> No, the Israelis are less human than the rest of us, right, Eljay?

        Why do you insist on being such an idiot? I have no respect for people who take pride in their country’s past and ON-GOING acts of immorality and injustice, regardless of their nationality.

        The kids in this interview happen to be Jewish Israelis. Had they been American or Russian or Saudi, I would have felt the same way about their comments.

        But once again, here you are – a hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist – defending / justifying / excusing Zio-supremacism like it’s your job.

      • German Lefty
        October 18, 2013, 2:15 pm

        Why do you insist on being such an idiot?

        Oh, eljay! You make me laugh!

        No, the Israelis are less human than the rest of us, right, Eljay?

        hophmi, why do you write such crap? Nobody claims that Israelis are less human than others. It’s just that general pride in your country is totally idiotic, because this would also include all the terrible stuff that your country does. However, you can be proud of particular things about your country. In general, I am neither proud nor ashamed of Germany. There are things that I like and things that I dislike about my country. I think that it’s important that citizens are able to judge their country objectively and aren’t blinded by love for their country.

  9. Mayhem
    October 14, 2013, 6:47 pm

    Philip, to give us a proper sense of perspective, why don’t Max and you now go into the Arab towns in Judea, Samaria and Gaza and ask the youth in these places what they think?

    • piotr
      October 14, 2013, 9:22 pm

      What is your idea. “Surely they do not represent American values, but they have similar values as their neighbors. Why not a one state?”

    • K Renner
      October 14, 2013, 11:03 pm

      Do you mean in the (Palestinian) West Bank?

      “Judea” and “Samaria” don’t exist except in the minds of deluded expansionists and anti-Palestinian negationists.

      Playing into your little game here– your implication is that the people who have suffered and continue to suffer at the hands of the Israeli jews, particularly the expansionist nationalist variety like the ones in the video, are “obviously” terrible people and “obviously” hate all the jews, are genocidal, and so on and so forth because they’re angry and upset about everything that’s been happening in their land and therefore don’t make a distinction between the goons actually murdering people they know, or stealing their land, or making their lives miserable in general, and ineffectual people in tel-aviv who don’t give two shits either unless some IDF gets shot in the head, and then it’s “All Palestinians are terrorists and scum” as per usual?

    • German Lefty
      October 15, 2013, 8:59 am

      why don’t Max and you now go into the Arab towns in Judea, Samaria and Gaza and ask the youth in these places what they think?

      Mayhem, read the ABOUT page: “Mondoweiss is a news website devoted to covering American foreign policy in the Middle East, chiefly from a progressive Jewish perspective.”
      If you want to hear more from Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, look here:
      link to therealnews.com
      link to youtube.com

      • Mayhem
        October 15, 2013, 5:49 pm

        @german lefty, this article is not directly related to American policy in the Middle East. One can’t just look at the views on one side without considering the other side. Thanks for your links but they are not sites where one can enter into open discussion. It seems we can freely talk about what is going on in Israel (heaps of forums etc), but what is really happening in the Arab world continues to be shrouded in mystery and intrigue.

      • German Lefty
        October 16, 2013, 1:37 pm

        One can’t just look at the views on one side without considering the other side.
        The Palestinians demand their rights and their land back. They hate being oppressed and dispossessed. Don’t pretend that you don’t know this already. Currently, I think it’s more important to understand the Zionist mindset because it’s the Zionists who have the power and who must be defeated.

        Thanks for your links but they are not sites where one can enter into open discussion.
        Oh, really? The Real News videos are posted on YouTube, too. YouTube has a comments section to each video. Feel free to start a discussion there.
        Did you already watch the documentaries “Checkpoint” and “5 Broken Cameras”?
        link to youtube.com

    • Walid
      October 16, 2013, 10:42 am

      “Philip, to give us a proper sense of perspective, why don’t Max and you now go into the Arab towns in Judea, Samaria and Gaza and ask the youth in these places what they think?”

      Mayhem, would you have to wash your mouth with soap if you used the term “Palestinian”? Does it give you a warm feeling saying Judea and Samaria and why don’t you use the word Azzah?

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 16, 2013, 11:34 am

        “Mayhem, would you have to wash your mouth with soap if you used the term ‘Palestinian’? ”

        It’s Orwellian, isn’t it? It’s as if he used the people’s actual name, Palestinian, he would be forced to admit that the place is Palestine and then question the entire criminal enterprise that resulted in taking their land from those people. So rather than face that truth, he just uses a false usage and thereby doesn’t have to commit zionist thoughtcrime.

    • Woody Tanaka
      October 16, 2013, 10:51 am

      “Philip, to give us a proper sense of perspective, why don’t Max and you now go into the Arab towns in Judea, Samaria and Gaza and ask the youth in these places what they think?”

      They probably have bad things to say about the people who destroyed their lives, stole their land and stripped them of their rights. I would imagine Jews in post-WWII Europe would have felt the same about the Germans, for the same reasons. (And there is no such places as “Judea” and “Samaria.” There used to be, but now they are nothing but racist dog whistles. Hence, your usage.)

    • Cliff
      October 16, 2013, 11:53 am

      False equivalency, mayhem.

      Palestinians live under Zionist tyranny. It is way more understandable that they might hate Israelis for what you thieves have done to them.

      Although, I think polls showed that Israeli Jews were more close-minded – which makes sense.

    • eljay
      October 16, 2013, 12:51 pm

      >> Philip, to give us a proper sense of perspective, why don’t Max and you now go into the Arab towns in Judea, Samaria and Gaza and ask the youth in these places what they think?

      Yes, and hurry back so that Mayhem can use the reactions of angry Palestinians to justify the past and on-going (war) crimes of supremacist Jews.

      “Sure, we stole and colonized their lands, built a supremacist state, stole and colonized more of their lands, killed them, stole their resources and, well, generally f*cked them over and continue to f*ck them over. But their youth hate us! Clearly, we are justified in continuing to oppress them, to steal and colonize their lands, and to hate and kill them!”

      Aggressor-victimhood is such a tough gig… :-(

    • Cliff
      October 18, 2013, 8:43 am

      What is Judea and Samaria?

      Phil why do you let settlers comment on this blog?

  10. RoHa
    October 14, 2013, 8:45 pm

    ‘“We know that we can’t be Jewish anywhere else,” says one.’

    Haven’t they noticed that, for close on a couple of thousand years, Jews in a lot of other places managed to be fairly Jewish?

    • yrn
      October 18, 2013, 7:02 am

      for close on a couple of thousand years, Jews in a lot of other places managed to be fairly Jewish?
      in Spain 1492
      Like In Germany 1930 an on ? or Ukraine?

  11. Shingo
    October 14, 2013, 9:33 pm

    Watching this I had to empathize with Phil’s sentiments. All 3 kids are so likable and charming in their own innocent, naive way.

    I have some Israelis friends who are very similar. Wonderful, generous couple who have the same right wing views. It’s a paradox, because on paper, their ideas and beliefs are so foreign to me, but I can’t help but like them and value our friendship.

    • seafoid
      October 15, 2013, 4:26 am

      I have had the same experience. Very friendly, can be very interesting but when anything about the conflict comes up they become rabid.
      We had an Israeli dad come pick up his son who was over at our place for a play date and he started talking about Gaza. It was like having Hophmi in our house !

      • hophmi
        October 15, 2013, 6:02 am

        It may surprise you, but I don’t go around looking for excuses to bring up the I-P conflict.

      • seafoid
        October 15, 2013, 8:26 am

        It is amazing to get hasbara live. The memes in stereo. You know and love them and you get them in real time. For free.

      • seafoid
        October 15, 2013, 9:09 am

        So you can only be jewish where people are tortured?

      • amigo
        October 15, 2013, 11:04 am

        “It may surprise you, but I don’t go around looking for excuses to bring up the I-P conflict.”hoppy

        Did you ever read the MW Headline??.

        The war of words on the ME conflict.

        What do you expect to find here at MW.

        Monday Night Football.

      • hophmi
        October 15, 2013, 12:25 pm

        “Did you ever read the MW Headline??.

        The war of words on the ME conflict.

        What do you expect to find here at MW.”

        I was referring to seafoid’s extremely unkind comment about having me in his house in his story about the Israeli dad who talked about Gaza.

  12. thankgodimatheist
    October 14, 2013, 11:15 pm

    Did anyone see Yossi Gurvitz’ talk ”What Happens “When Israel Is Mighty” on Youtube? This should ruffle some feathers, I believe.

    “Part of an extended interview with writer Yossi Gurvitz [ http://ygurvitz.net ] – transcribed & translated from Hebrew to English by Dena Shunra

  13. thankgodimatheist
    October 14, 2013, 11:41 pm

    “We know that we can’t be Jewish anywhere else,” says one.”
    Oh, really?!
    But if true, it begs the question. Why is it that every other human group whatever they are can be themselves anywhere else except the Jews?

  14. MahaneYehude1
    October 14, 2013, 11:57 pm

    To all Muslims and other readers of MW, For the New Eid Al-Adha Almubarak, I congratulate you all:

    كل عام وانتم بخير
    Kul Am Wu’antum Bkheir!!!

    • seafoid
      October 15, 2013, 4:23 am

      Mahane Yehuda will throw a few crumbs over the apartheid wall at lunchtime today.
      He cares

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 15, 2013, 6:27 am

        seafoid: “Mahane Yehuda will throw a few crumbs over the apartheid wall at lunchtime today.”

        Disgusting and unnecessary reply.

      • Shingo
        October 15, 2013, 9:15 am

        It’s a disgusting and unnecessary state you live in.

      • seafoid
        October 15, 2013, 9:20 am

        See you next tuesday.

      • German Lefty
        October 15, 2013, 10:06 am

        MH1: “Disgusting and unnecessary reply.”
        seafoid: “See you next tuesday.”

        Seafoid, you are so funny. I don’t think that MH1 meant this as a request.

      • Theo
        October 15, 2013, 10:53 am

        How about next summer?

    • German Lefty
      October 15, 2013, 9:06 am

      To all Muslims and other readers of MW, For the New Eid Al-Adha Almubarak, I congratulate you all

      MahaneYehude1, do you also have some empty words for us atheist readers?

      • Theo
        October 15, 2013, 10:54 am

        Lefty

        I enjoy your comments, they are to the point!

      • hophmi
        October 15, 2013, 12:22 pm

        “MahaneYehude1, do you also have some empty words for us atheist readers?”

        It’s very unfortunate when people cannot argue their political positions without being jerks about it. German Lefty, stop it. This is clearly against the rules here, and it’s being permitted again and again and again from the same few characters. It’s character assassination and ad hominem, pure and simple.

      • German Lefty
        October 18, 2013, 2:28 pm

        This is clearly against the rules here, and it’s being permitted again and again and again from the same few characters. It’s character assassination and ad hominem, pure and simple.

        hophmi, I am a pacifist. Therefore, I don’t assassinate anyone. This was not a personal attack on MahaneYehude1. It’s just that good wishes are empty words. Instead of giving Palestinians wishes, MahaneYehude1 should give them rights.

    • Walid
      October 15, 2013, 3:06 pm

      “To all Muslims and other readers of MW, For the New Eid Al-Adha Almubarak, I congratulate you all”

      Mahane 1 (the orignal), Adha is not a contest but nonetheless, your well-wishes are understood and thank you. It’s realy much more of a Jewish-inspired commemoration of Abraham’s willingness to sacrifice (adha) his son on orders from God and the ensuing first Covenenant. So maybe the Jews too should be wished a happy Adha.

      • MahaneYehude1
        October 15, 2013, 3:37 pm

        thanks, Walid, without the “Mahane1″, your comment would be better.
        كل عام وانتم بخير

  15. bilal a
    October 15, 2013, 3:38 am

    I’m confused, they say they know their religion is right, but I dont perceive any religious sensibilities, is their religion merely ethno-nationalism coupled with opposition to Christianity and Islam?

    Please interview some religious Israelis , I cant believe Judaism condones these attitudes, any more than truly religious Muslims condone denying Jews the right to live and worship as they please in Palestine.

    imo, This is a conflict between ethno-secularists.

  16. OlegR
    October 15, 2013, 5:53 am

    Ok now i watched the interview.
    You know Phil you really made a good interview.
    For an 18 year old kid Matanya is really well spoken and level headed.
    He might have a good chance to get into that unit you asked him about.
    Other then those remarks about the Arab knesset members which are unacceptable
    though i can understand why one would want Hanin Zoabi to get the hell out of the knesset.

    I really loved how they laughed when you asked that silly question about Jews being smarter.Only a ghola Jew could ask that.

    • Shingo
      October 15, 2013, 6:17 am

      Yes it was a good interview and Phil’s sincerity was apparent. It meant the kids were not defensive or combative and were able to think through their responses.

      For an 18 year old kid Matanya is really well spoken and level headed.

      I kind of agree. He strikes me as someone who is questioning his beliefs to some extent. I think if one were to take him away from the mind control and indoctrination, he would be a wonderful humanitarian – all three of them.

      Other then those remarks about the Arab knesset members which are unacceptable though i can understand why one would want Hanin Zoabi to get the hell out of the knesset.

      In a country where dissent and diversity of opinion is not tolerated perhaps.

      I really loved how they laughed when you asked that silly question about Jews being smarter.

      I thought their reply rang with truth. There is no question that Israelis are very tenacious, determined, resourceful, and indefatigable. As they said it’s not that Jews are smarter, it’s the drive that is the key to their success.

      In some ways, the kids were refreshing and tragic at the same time.

      • OlegR
        October 15, 2013, 6:45 am

        /In a country where dissent and diversity of opinion is not tolerated perhaps./
        True that’s why she is still in it.
        But she really really tries to push the envelope on free speech and parliamentarian immunity. Thankfully there aren’t any clowns like Ben Ari in the knesset this term so they can’t feed of each others PR
        and we don’t hear about her all that much now.

        /In some ways, the kids were refreshing and tragic at the same time./
        Nothing tragic about them but we do see things differently.

        The most important thing about this interview was that they showed no irrational hate toward the Arabs. An understanding that we are in conflict and that this a difficult and a long one but no hate.That’s the attitude of most people i know or care to know.

      • Shingo
        October 16, 2013, 2:56 am

        True that’s why she is still in it.
        But she really really tries to push the envelope on free speech and parliamentarian immunity.

        What do you mean still in it? Does the fact that she’s Arabic mean that exile and ethnic cleansing remains a punitive option?

      • hophmi
        October 16, 2013, 3:03 am

        Here, we have conservative Republican congressmen who have called for the President’s impeachment.

        I think Oleg is clear enough. Zoabi upsets many Israelis by sympathizing with Israel’s enemies.

        I think we all know two things, Shingo. The first is that in America, a person with Zoabi’s views would almost certainly never get elected to Congress in the first place. The second is that if she were elected, and gave a speech in Congress praising, say, the exploits of the Taliban army in checking American power, she’d be impeached. Despite the rhetoric, there is no real movement to expel her from the Knesset. So let’s cut the crap.

      • Shingo
        October 16, 2013, 3:50 am

        Here, we have conservative Republican congressmen who have called for the President’s impeachment.

        Those nut jobs have been talking about impeachment before he was even sworn in in 2009. They’re the same mob who were insisting he was a Muslim and born in Africa.

        I think Oleg is clear enough. Zoabi upsets many Israelis by sympathizing with Israel’s enemies.

        Who gives a shit who she upsets. She was elected to office, and it’s up to her electorate to remove her, not Ziosupremacists.

        The first is that in America, a person with Zoabi’s views would almost certainly never get elected to Congress in the first place.

        They would if she represented the North American Indian population.

        The second is that if she were elected, and gave a speech in Congress praising, say, the exploits of the Taliban army in checking American power, she’d be impeached

        The Taliban are not North Amercian natives who the US had ethnically cleansed and who is occupying or stealing their land. A real comparison would be member of the Black Caucus lambasting the government for neglecting African Americans.

        So let’s cut the crap.

      • yonah fredman
        October 16, 2013, 5:07 am

        Shingo- You write so quickly, so often and with such agility that at least every once in a while you include lies that pour out as fast as the truth.

        You write regarding Zoabi’s chances of getting elected to the congress:
        They would if she represented the North American Indian population.

        So tell me Shingo, how many North American Indians are in the house of representatives or the senate?

        I am “pleased” that Zoabi is a member of the Knesset. but the fact remains that whereas in the US there is a two party system that monopolizes all but a seat or two in the Congress, Israel’s system gives representation to any party that can garner 2% of the vote. This is very messy and there are many reasons to prefer the US system to the Israeli system, but the Israeli system is far more “democratic”.

        The fact that most Palestinian/Arab members of the Knesset belong to parties opposed to Zionism, adds up to there being very few Palestinian/Arab members included in the government coalitions. Yet, to state that Zoabi would get elected in America if she represented native Americans is pure baloney, 100% baloney.

        So let’s cut the baloney.

      • Shingo
        October 16, 2013, 5:34 am

        So tell me Shingo, how many North American Indians are in the house of representatives or the senate?

        None that I know of, but we are talking about the fact that she was championing the rights of indigenous people, not some far away population like the Taliban are to the US.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 16, 2013, 11:01 am

        “This is very messy and there are many reasons to prefer the US system to the Israeli system, but the Israeli system is far more ‘democratic’.”

        LMAO!! Yeah, you don’t let half of the people who are going to be affected by the government have a vote, based on their ancestry — real “democratic.”

      • OlegR
        October 15, 2013, 8:32 am

        In a country where dissent and diversity of opinion is not tolerated perhaps./
        True that’s why she is still in it.
        But she really really tries to push the envelope on free speech and parliamentarian immunity. Thankfully there aren’t any clowns like Ben Ari in the knesset this term so they can’t feed of each others PR
        and we don’t hear about her all that much now.

        /In some ways, the kids were refreshing and tragic at the same time./
        Nothing tragic about them but we do see things differently.

        The most important thing about this interview was that they showed no irrational hate toward the Arabs. An understanding that we are in conflict and that this a difficult and a long one but no hate.That’s the attitude of most people i know or care to know.

      • Shingo
        October 15, 2013, 9:12 am

        Nothing tragic about them but we do see things differently.

        Yes, there is great tragedy in them. They see the world as hostile to them and Holocaust as inevitable without Israel to prevent it. The boy is indoctrinated to worship militarism and death. They all worship the military, which is the hallmark of fascism.

        The most important thing about this interview was that they showed no irrational hate toward the Arabs.

        Not so much irrational as racism and prejudice based on ignorance and indoctrination. They see Arabs as wife beaters, as primitive and savage.

        An understanding that we are in conflict and that this a difficult and a long one but no hate.

        What they show is a complete lack of self awareness. While it is true they are only young, their hearts and minds will only become hardened.

        They empathize with the struggle of Arabs in the Arab spring, but think that their own oppression against Arabs is virtuous. They don’t even accept there is an occupation and needless to say, they accept the BS that Jews were there first, even though their own families probably flew into Ben Gurion airport from Europe or the West.

        The tragedy lies in their obvious brainwashing. When I hear these kids, I understand how public in Germany would have been brainwashed to accept Nazi doctrine too.

        It’s like that anecdote of the Holocaust survivor who attended the Nuremberg trials and sat in the front row studying the defendants as they were cross examined. He sat throughout the proceedings and in the end he broke down. What he found most frightening and disturbing about the monsters being tried was that they all seemed so normal.

        The parallel’s are remarkable.

      • OlegR
        October 15, 2013, 10:17 am

        Oh the inevitable Nazi comparison.
        Yawn.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 15, 2013, 11:20 am

        “The most important thing about this interview was that they showed no irrational hate toward the Arabs.”

        You’re out of your mind. They want the Palestinians to have no rights. The kid either has irrational hatred or he’s a sociopath.

      • Annie Robbins
        October 15, 2013, 12:24 pm

        hops, do you find it unlikely there were any nice germans who were simply brainwashed individuals? if so, what percentage? 5? 15? 30? 60?

      • German Lefty
        October 15, 2013, 12:36 pm

        When I hear these kids, I understand how public in Germany would have been brainwashed to accept Nazi doctrine too.

        Yes, but you have to consider that Nazi-era Germans had no independent media and no internet. Israeli Jews, however, do have access to factual information but they simply aren’t interested. They don’t WANT to know what’s really going on.

      • hophmi
        October 15, 2013, 12:37 pm

        “hops, do you find it unlikely there were any nice germans who were simply brainwashed individuals? if so, what percentage? 5? 15? 30? 60?”

        I find it quite likely that some Germans were brainwashed. Speculating on a percentage is silly; I have no idea.

        I guess you’re assuming that these kids are brainwashed. I don’t. They live there. They have POVs. They’re answering questions, some pugnacious, from outsiders about their country. I think it’s pretty common for people to defend their countries to outsiders looking to tear it down. I don’t see American kids walking around telling international journalists about American racism, the plight of the American working poor, and the ills of our foreign policy, not that they’re asking.

        I think it’s more likely that you’re a little brainwashed. You seem to have a very hard time believing that the average Israeli can be a good person, and you tend to romanticize the Palestinians and graft your views onto them, as most Western activists do.

        I’m more realistic. I think most people on both sides are good people, and that both societies have their irredentists who are the bad apples. That’s the reality.

      • MHughes976
        October 15, 2013, 1:00 pm

        Melita Maschmann’s ‘Account Rendered’ from the mid-60s is a moving and interesting testimony from someone who was perhaps a bit too intelligent to be brainwashed but was nevertheless prevailed upon to think the wrong way.

      • Eva Smagacz
        October 15, 2013, 1:57 pm

        OlegR:
        “Oh the inevitable Nazi comparison.
        Yawn.”

        I know, it must be getting boring by now, we all know it was true from beginning, so why drag it out again and again.
        It must be so draining. We should just accept it and let Jewish Israelis lead their lives with all the consequences as to where they will lead.

        And then, in future, the whinging people will be boring the world with some silly ideas about the railway lines to Ab-al-Ashwits in West Bank that could have been bombed….

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 15, 2013, 2:33 pm

        ” I don’t see American kids walking around telling international journalists about American racism, the plight of the American working poor, and the ills of our foreign policy, not that they’re asking.”

        You’re out of your mind. Have you ever talked to a young liberal American? They are very honest and very forthright about the ills of our society.

      • Shingo
        October 15, 2013, 4:38 pm

        Yes it is innevitable snd do is Israel’s trajectory.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 15, 2013, 4:39 pm

        “Oh the inevitable Nazi comparison.”

        Yeah, well, quack like a duck…

      • Shingo
        October 15, 2013, 4:42 pm

        don’t see American kids walking around telling international journalists about American racism, the plight of the American working poor, and the ills of our foreign policy, not that they’re asking.

        I don’t see Americsn kids saying that there should be no African Americans, Hispanics or Jews in Congress.

      • Shingo
        October 15, 2013, 4:47 pm

        BTW Hop.

        Americans of all persuasions have made it clear they believe US foreign policy is on the wrong track.

        While the vast majority of Americans opposed bombing Syria, the majority of Israelus supported it.

        The young kid wants to go and fight. He can’t explain why other than he thinks killing foreigners and wars will be of service to his country.

      • Dutch
        October 15, 2013, 8:58 pm

        @ German Lefty,

        I agree. Important notion. This is a hip, modern, Western, open, democratic IT-society (as they claim), in which a huge portion of the people is totally misinformed re. the conflict and the Palestinians. A conflict that is literally under their noses. Amazing, right?

        They don’t give a damn, and – don’t forget – they got away with it for 65 years.

      • Dutch
        October 15, 2013, 9:17 pm

        @ OlegR

        It needn’t be inevitable. It can change. There could be Israeli’s that stand up and say ‘Enough!’. That option is fully available, and would win massive support around the world. It might even bring peace – a value that has never landed at Ben Gurion so far. So may I suggest to use it?

      • hophmi
        October 16, 2013, 2:57 am

        So are young Israelis. But not usually to pugnacious foreign journalists.

      • Shingo
        October 16, 2013, 3:20 am

        So are young Israelis.

        No they don’t, as polls tell us. And Oleg complimented Phil on his interviewing technique, so he wasn’t being pugnacious.

      • hophmi
        October 17, 2013, 9:13 am

        Max was there also. I’d say Max is pugnacious.

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