Israeli soldier discusses killing Palestinian children on Ukrainian game show

Israel/Palestine
on 75 Comments
Screen shot of Elena Zakusilo on the Ukrainian game show "Lie Detecter," 4 November 2013.

Screen shot of Elena Zakusilo on the Ukrainian game show “Lie Detecter,” 4 November 2013.

A few days ago Abir Kopty found a November episode of a Ukrainian game show where an Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) soldier nonchalantly discussed killing Palestinian children. Dual Ukrainian and Israeli citizen Elena Zakusilo explains, while sitting in an oversized chair with her feet dangling above the ground, that her enemies in the combat field were toddlers. “Barely walking” toddlers:

[We] had to fire, had to kill, because it was either they [get] us, or we – them. I can’t say I’m proud of that. It’s scary, especially when children run with Molotov cocktails, and they send children, to turn the attention to them, little kid, barely walking, 3-4 years old.

While on “Lie Detectors,” Zakusilo sat across from her mother and two sisters answering questions that according to the show’s format, are supposed to be embarrassing. She recounts training IDF attack dogs affixed with cameras and microphones that are sent into Palestinian villages as spies. “You give a command, it runs into an Arab village, runs around there like a normal dog, and films what the terrorists are doing.” And when the show asks her if she has ever killed anyone, her family’s take on it is blasé. “Not someone, apparently those she was fighting with,” said the soldier’s mother. Then Zakusilo continues, describing firing at Palestinian, but is careful to note, “it’s normal for them” to die young, because, she affirms, the children are taught to do so by their parents.

Here’s the corresponding excerpt from the video:

Q: [2:54] Did you kill people?

A: Yes.

DETECTOR: TRUE

The first time it was a big stress, I remember like now, I threw away the gun and said I won’t go anywhere. {Eventually} I did go.

Q to mother: did you know that your daughter killed people?

A of the mother: I know that she served during the war with Lebanon, and she was in the military, and of course, how can you be in the military without {killing}…

Host: someone…

A of the mother: not someone, apparently those she was fighting with, I think. Let her explain, whom she killed.

Q: The day when Yasef {Yaser} Arafat died, there was a massive riot by Arabs. They were shooting at the unit, I saw that there were hits, I saw ..head.. . They always told us to shoot in the air, at the feet, and [...] the soldiers understand that if you keep shooting like that, you will be gone. So we had to fire, had to kill, because it was either they [get] us, or we – them. I can’t say I’m proud of that. It’s scary, especially when children run with Molotov cocktails, and they send children, to turn the attention to them, little kid, barely walking, 3-4 years old…

Q: But children are too…

A: Explode…? {Completes his sentence} They, suicide bombers explode in the trains… They, the terrorists, have a known tariff, an adult terrorist worth 30,000 dollars, a child – 50,000. The Hamasniks paid to the Arabs. And mothers say – so what, we can give birth to five more.

Q: Wait, so the mother sent her child…?

A: For them it’s normal, for them it’s normal, yes.

It seems the intention was for viewers to find her responses funny or appealingly personal. But everything Zakusilo details sounds either illegal or a war crime, and it is doubly horrifying because as a viewer we understand someone thought this would be good television. Yet there’s no war glory here, only a young woman who is a career soldier because she said she doesn’t want to live with her parents—or in the Ukraine. And so she will kill for the IDF, she will kill children for the IDF. Good TV, right?

Read the full transcript posted by Kopty here.

About Allison Deger

Allison Deger is the Assistant Editor of Mondoweiss.net. Follow her on twitter at @allissoncd.

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75 Responses

  1. David Samel
    November 24, 2013, 11:46 am

    A little further down, this woman explicitly admits shooting at children:

    Q [6:22]: Did you happen to shoot at children?

    A: Yes.

    As shocking as this is, her general attitude toward “Arabs” reflects the kind of indoctrination young Israelis go through to dehumanize the “enemy.” They learn that Palestinians as young as three or four are sent on terrorist missions, whether throwing Molotov cocktails or exploding suicide vests; mothers are indifferent to the violent deaths of their children, because their wombs can provide a steady stream of replacements. These impressions about “Arabs” are widespread in Israel and make it much easier to kill such sub-human vermin. Is there any wonder that the infamous “one shot two kills” tee shirts depicting a pregnant Palestinian woman in a rifle’s crosshairs became popular among IDF soldiers until they caused a modicum of public embarrassment? link to thesocietypages.org

    • Justpassingby
      November 24, 2013, 2:01 pm

      Agreed.
      But its not only arabs but non jews in general that are dehumanized by Israel.

    • Shmuel
      November 24, 2013, 2:57 pm

      Such arguments serve a dual purpose, both absolving Israelis of responsibility for the killing of children (‘so he wasn’t carrying an rpg, but he might have been’, ‘human shields’, etc.) and dehumanising the enemy (‘his family doesn’t care anyway’, ‘what kind of people do this to their kids?’, ‘culture of death’, ‘when they love their children as much as they hate us”, etc.), thereby making it emotionally easier to oppress and kill them (unlike a kitten, for example).

    • MRW
      November 24, 2013, 4:17 pm

      Putting their best foot forward as Netanyahu and Israel are neutralized as international concerns. Double whammy. Just keep rolling that braggadocio out.

    • Qualtrough
      November 25, 2013, 12:52 am

      Back in the late 60s my family moved to Europe and I attended an International School. On our school bus were a small group of Israeli kids. I knew very little about the Israeli/Palestine issue and had no opinion either way, but I recall being disgusted by the glee with which several of the boys told us about how in some youth military training camp shooing practice consisted of shooting dogs in the desert. They saw nothing wrong with that at all.

    • LeaNder
      November 25, 2013, 6:30 am

      David, that’s what strikes me with matters like this. How many people are able to realize that these stories are propaganda to demonize the Palestinians collectively as terrorist who even use their toddlers. Remember: “They” do not love their children as we do. The first time I came across the term Hasbara and read about it, they wrote it was directed at the population first. This is an effective approach, since after that you have a huge amount of volunteer ambassadors, so to speak, that spread your message. I also remember vividly, how horrified I was when an American-Israeli first tried to feed me this Arabs=terrorists equation, including all the tales of private experience with “Arabs” he added.

  2. Blownaway
    November 24, 2013, 11:47 am

    Whew good thing for her it was only Palestinian children. Else she would be considered a terrorist and subject to a drone attack…

  3. FreddyV
    November 24, 2013, 12:13 pm

    Sending 3 and 4 year olds as suicide bombers and throwing molotov cocktails?

    Is there evidence of this?

    • ToivoS
      November 24, 2013, 10:09 pm

      Of course not. She is just repeating the indoctrination that she received during training for the IDF.

      I recall many years back hearing stories from Vietnam vets about the horrendous atrocities being committed by the Viet Cong. When questioned more closely, they admitted they had not witnessed such but were told about it in training.

      That is military training — dehumanize the enemy.

      • tree
        November 25, 2013, 3:15 am

        To illustrate your point, Toivo, here’s a snippet from the NYTimes coverage of the trial of Lt. William Calley:

        Former Pfc. Paul D. Meadlo testified today at the court-martial of First Lieut. William L. Calley Jr. that he had shot some babies in their mothers’ arms at Mylai because he was afraid the babies might be carrying concealed grenades.

        link to select.nytimes.com

    • W.Jones
      November 24, 2013, 11:27 pm

      On internet forums I have seen supporters of the State’s system posting photos of little kids dressed up with suicide vests on. Two examples are here:
      link to qatarliving.com
      But I believe I’ve seen others.

      Granted, the photos don’t show that the kids were actually used in this way or just if it was a mock photo, which I assume is the case. Second, the people who post them are upset over the kids being abused, but the actual abuse (as opposed to mock photos) is experienced by children tortured in Israeli prisons:
      link to snippits-and-slappits.blogspot.com

      • tree
        November 25, 2013, 3:05 am

        Of course there are innumerable photos taken of American toddlers and children playing with guns, but no one assumes that their parents use these children to commit murders for them simply because of the existence of these photos.

        On the other hand, however…..

        link to pbs.twimg.com

    • W.Jones
      November 24, 2013, 11:50 pm

      Freddy,

      Think back to when you were 3-4 years old. If you can’t perhaps you know some 3-4 year olds. An average 3 year old boy is about 3 feet tall and weighs 31 pounds.

      How many unlit molotov cocktails can a 3-4 year old carry?

      Can a 3-4 year old light and throw a molotov cocktail by himself?

      How far can a 3-4 year old throw a lit molotov cocktail?

      This means: The kid would need an adult with him to carry and light the molotovs. If an adult is right there with him, there is no reason the adult would not throw the cocktail himself after lighting it.

      In other words, the IDF shoots 3-4 year olds for throwing molotovs when in reality the little kids would not do that.

      • W.Jones
        November 25, 2013, 12:22 am

        3 year olds are still pushed in strollers and their mommas do not let them get near hot stoves, Freddy. They do not carry bags of Molotovs, light them, and throw them real distances at IDF soldiers.

        It’s like the man-eating rabbit at the end of Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

        A molotov cocktail is 5 times heavier than a baseball (0.3 lbs). Here is a 3 year old “child prodigy” throwing a baseball:

        How powerful and far did the child prodigy throw it? The molotov will go 1/5 as far.

        Come on. Kids are getting killed for this stuff. It never happens.

      • W.Jones
        November 25, 2013, 12:34 am

        The prodigy did not even make it from the pitcher’s mound to the home plate.

        Q [6:22]: Did you happen to shoot at children?

        A: Yes.

    • pabelmont
      November 25, 2013, 8:33 am

      Ever stood in a park and seen parents playing “catch” with 3-4 year old kids? The kids throw very badly. Molotov cocktails? I don’t think so. OK, maybe I’m wrong. Maybe those I saw were 1-3 year old kids. And maybe she was wrong. Maybe the ones she shot were 5-10 y.o.

      Seems an argument for killing kids with an easy conscience.

      Of course, we might also ask what sort of occasion it was when there were armed crowds of Palestinians WITH KIDS in the presence of armed (natch) Israeli soldiers shooting at them. Memo: check if the Palestinians were in fact armed.

      • W.Jones
        November 25, 2013, 10:36 am

        Pabelmont,

        It is hard to confuse a 3 year old with a 8 year old. But anyway, have you ever been to a little league game? It’s hard to imagine even a 8 year old carrying 5 molotov cocktails that weight 5 times the weight of a baseball, lighting them, and throwing them serious distances. And yes it would have to be serious distances, because the soldiers have weapons that go much farther than a 8 year old throwing a filled bottle.

  4. Diane Mason
    November 24, 2013, 12:15 pm

    Doesn’t the fact that this is a “gameshow” called “Lie Detectors” suggest that the purpose is to tell a story and have people guess whether it’s true or not?

    This sounds like a patchwork of memes – Palestinians not loving their children, toddlers with Molotov cocktails – that have been repeated so often that they could be combined into a narrative that might sound plausible enough to win whatever you win if you pass the “Lie Detectors” test. I mean, I don’t know the game show at all, but doesn’t it sound as if the purpose might be to make up a story, have people believe it’s true, win a prize?

    • Shmuel
      November 24, 2013, 5:04 pm

      Good point, Diane, but I think it’s disturbing whether she was telling the truth or “merely” trying to win prizes by dehumanising Palestinians.

      • yrn
        November 25, 2013, 4:53 am

        Shmuel
        “but I think it’s disturbing whether she was telling the truth or “merely” trying to win prizes by dehumanising Palestinians.”
        Who cares Shmuel , as long as people like Modowiess commenters can use it as fuel to their regular routine.
        And you are taking part in it.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 25, 2013, 8:28 am

        oh that’s rich yrn, our regular routine of exposing the all too regular routine of israeli occupation? and who’s taking part in it yrn? you.

        btw, kirby’s revelation of this atrocious story has gotten picked up by ma’an news link to maannews.net

      • Cliff
        November 25, 2013, 8:50 am

        Yrn

        Even though youre a hasbarat troll, this latest ‘comment’ of yours is especially ignorant and nonsensical.

        Maybe its your embarrassingly broken English.

        The IDF butcher admitted to killing people – possibly children.

        She then justifies it by proposing that 3 yr olds are throwing molotov cocktails.

        And instead of directing your criticism at her – to demonstrate a minimal concern for your racist, apartheid, insane asylum/State, you bash MW.

        You and the other Zionist Jews Israel-right-or-wrong cult are psychologically ill.

      • Shmuel
        November 25, 2013, 9:32 am

        Who cares Shmuel , as long as people like Modowiess commenters can use it as fuel to their regular routine.

        A truly contemptible comment, yrn.

      • yrn
        November 25, 2013, 10:50 am

        Shmuel
        “A truly contemptible comment”
        See for yourself, the following Mondowiess routine.
        “The IDF butcher admitted to killing people – possibly children.”
        He never even considers maybe as you claimed :
        “but I think it’s disturbing whether she was telling the truth or “merely” trying to win prizes by dehumanising Palestinians.”

        He takes the fuel and goes ahead:
        “The IDF butcher admitted to killing people”
        Good for you.

      • LeaNder
        November 25, 2013, 11:37 am

        Strictly one can invent any tale. Even if people don’t believe, you at least can send them on a journey and hopefully leave traces on their minds.

        Journey:

        Even if some given children are brainwashed (which certainly happens all over the world in various guises, not least in Israel itself) — shouldn’t one feel compassion (or at least pity) rather than hatred and contempt? The comprehensiveness of the dehumanization is breathtaking.

        Should one feel sorry for the volunteer Hasbara ambassadors since they after all are the first targets? The trap into which you seem to have stepped is everything is possible, Ellen. I seriously doubt this scenario, but I have no idea what you can do with kids at that age, since I never had any. I pretty sure though it wouldn’t have worked with my niece at that age.

        This is a much better statement:

        This means: The kid would need an adult with him to carry and light the molotovs. If an adult is right there with him, there is no reason the adult would not throw the cocktail himself after lighting it.

        Well at least tree looked in the appropriate departement.

        Or make tree to dig up some Fun facts.

        Don’t you think suicide belts would need to be custom-made, so b) or c) wouldn’t work. Which leaves the vaguely termed “could be” but “shouldn’t we then” by Ellen below, I think it was.

        But concerning empathy, the fact that first Israelis and as a close second the diaspora are the first targets of this type of Hasbara, should I feel empathy or sorry for you? For whatever reason I had a hard time to buy into the “Arabs always lie”, maybe even more when private experiences where added, like the one following the question: did you ever have to share a hospital room with an Arab? Which led to how bad it is since their whole clan will come to visit. This is just one of the private

        Beware. Who is Oxmity anyway? Can more be found about the show?

        Oximity is registered via Germany in London, but adminstrated in Germany by: Christian Hapke Hapke on a very check is involved in startups and in looking for people that work in marketing. People with all type of language knowledge offered jobs in Berlin.

        It is founded by: Sanjay Goel, All Bloomberg knows about the firm is that is somewhat exists and that’s it.

        Personally, I wouldn’t want to be a multiplier, as we call it over here, and help spread this news before knowing more about Oximity? Proximity?

        Wonder what drew Alister’s attention.

      • LeaNder
        November 25, 2013, 11:40 am

        sorry, Allison, please forgive. But the more I think it, the more peculiar the whole story feels. And no I didn’t check all the links.

  5. Obsidian
    November 24, 2013, 12:39 pm

    Arafat died 9 years ago. Were female soldiers in combat units 9 years ago? I guess, no.

    For some reason, the ‘doggie-cam’ doesn’t ring true either.
    It must be a very shaky, misdirected video, but since those crafty Jews put cameras in birdies and train swine to uproot Palestinian farms, I guess anything is possible.

    • Shmuel
      November 24, 2013, 1:27 pm

      Arafat died 9 years ago. Were female soldiers in combat units 9 years ago? I guess, no.

      Why bother looking things up when you can just guess? Women were admitted to the Oketz canine unit, as fighters (lohamot) in 2000. link to news.walla.co.il (Hebrew)

      For some reason, the ‘doggie-cam’ doesn’t ring true either.

      Why bother looking things up when you can just ask yourself how they “ring”?
      The IDF announced in 2009 that the Oketz canine unit would be introducing remote control technology for dogs, including cameras.
      link to nrg.co.il (Hebrew)

      But who cares about the facts? The important thing is that you managed to get some anti-Semitic snark in.

      • Denis
        November 24, 2013, 11:08 pm

        ‘cuse me for stepping in here like this, Shmuel, but “anti-Semtic snark” is just such a beautiful phrase I can’t help but comment on it. It brings to mind Abe Foxman’s epic story “The Hunting of the Anti-Semitic Snark.”

        Ooops. Hold on. . . that was Lewis Carroll.

        But I was confused about your dog-cam point. What, precisely, is your connection between Obsidian doubting the doggie-cam story and antisemitism? I hope you are not equating IDF Jews to dogs. You should be ashamed.

        Thanks to such loose accusations of antisemitism, they have all become a joke.

      • Shmuel
        November 25, 2013, 2:12 am

        But I was confused about your dog-cam point. What, precisely, is your connection between Obsidian doubting the doggie-cam story and antisemitism?

        Obsidian was implying that there is an element of anti-Semitism (“those crafty Jews”) in believing the camera story.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 25, 2013, 2:49 am

        What, precisely, is your connection between Obsidian doubting the doggie-cam story and antisemitism? I hope you are not equating IDF Jews to dogs. You should be ashamed.

        you’re communication style is so transparent denis. you ask a question while assuming you know the answer and then chastise all in the same breath. maybe it’s you who should be ashamed.

        and what’s the difference between a “loose accusation” and what you just did? how bought chastising Ob for his ““crafty Jews” insinuation? or is he on the wrong team?

      • pabelmont
        November 25, 2013, 8:44 am

        But wait a minute, here. Are we supposed to believe that Israelis (or, if you like, Jews) are not “crafty” but stupid? Or ordinary? With all that “make the desert bloom” stuff and all the (actually) advanced weapons in IDF armorys?

        Or, as usual, is it always antisemitic to say anything (praise, blame, characterizing, suggesting a characterization, suggesting the suggestion of a characterization, of [1] Jews, [2] some Jews, [3] Israelis, [4] some Israelis, [5] you get the idea?

        Or rather, (well, duh!) is it always a good time for a protector of Israel to suggest antisemitism when the rhetorical need arises, whether the victim of the suggestion was noisy or silent, whatever the topic (well, maybe the topic has to involve Jews or Israelis somehow)?

      • Obsidian
        November 25, 2013, 1:20 pm

        Actually, I couldn’t get my head around the technology of the doggie-cam, but thanks to Shmulik’s link, I now get it.

        Indeed, there are crafty Jews behind the vibra-training of canines and I’m proud of that.

      • Bumblebye
        November 25, 2013, 6:52 pm

        Police dogs in the UK have been used with cameras for years now. Not for the same nefarious purposes as Israeli canine units tho’.

      • RoHa
        November 25, 2013, 8:36 pm

        ‘It brings to mind Abe Foxman’s epic story “The Hunting of the Anti-Semitic Snark.”’

        Just remember that when Foxman says “anti-Semitic” three times, it’s true.

      • RoHa
        November 25, 2013, 8:38 pm

        “Police dogs in the UK have been used with cameras for years now. Not for the same nefarious purposes as Israeli canine units tho’.”

        There the dogs use the cameras to make artistic, sensitive, boring documentaries about the lives of police dogs.

      • Denis
        November 26, 2013, 12:55 pm

        That’s cool, ar, now “crafty Jews” is antisemitism.

        Your rule: if any adjective used to modify “Jews” is not complimentary, the phrase is certified as antisemitism. Uncle Abe has a place for you on his editorial staff. Leave your Chicago Style Manual at home, they use the Jerusalem one.

        And “crafty Palestinians” — Islamophobic no doubt.

        And “crafty Irish” — that’s just plain oxymoron, I guess.

    • Talkback
      November 25, 2013, 12:04 pm

      But Obsidian, you know very well that everything is staged, what you can’t cope with.

    • talknic
      November 26, 2013, 11:55 am

      Obsidian ” since those crafty Jews .. train swine to uproot Palestinian farms, I guess anything is possible”

      One doesn’t have to train swine to uproot vegetation. Moronic settlers need to be trained not to let swine loose on other folks farms

  6. JohnAdamTurnbull
    November 24, 2013, 1:07 pm

    Another sad detail in this story is that Elena Zakusilo changed her Ukranian name to Elena Gluzman so that she might be more easily accepted in Israeli society. Who’s the attack dog?

    • Obsidian
      November 26, 2013, 11:15 am

      I’m in the process of changing my Anglo surname to something more Israeli. Nothing sad about the change.

      • talknic
        November 26, 2013, 11:46 am

        Obsidian “I’m in the process of changing my Anglo surname to something more Israeli.”

        Muayyed Ighbariya, Naim Ateek, or Ala Wahib are Israeli names

      • Obsidian
        November 26, 2013, 12:10 pm

        No. The paternal surname was Aisenberg, it was Anglosized in America and now it’s being changed back to it’s original Aisenberg.

        BTW, my maternal family emigrated to Jerusalem in 1811. They were not well received by the Ottomans or the local Arabs.

      • talknic
        November 26, 2013, 8:38 pm

        @ Obsidian

        Does Aisenberg have millennia of history in the M East?

        “.. my maternal family emigrated to Jerusalem in 1811. They were not well received by the Ottomans or the local Arabs”

        There’s nothing to indicate your claim is believable, it looks like another inventive way of making derogatory remarks about Arabs. A sport that’s becoming quite popular amongst supporters of Israel’s illegal activities in non-Israeli territories.

      • miriam6
        November 26, 2013, 9:51 pm

        talknic@;

        Obsidian “I’m in the process of changing my Anglo surname to something more Israeli.”
        Muayyed Ighbariya, Naim Ateek, or Ala Wahib are Israeli names

        How facetious of you talknic

        Anyway someone here on mw would no doubt accuse obsidian of committing a gross act of cultural misappropriation if he chose such a name.

        Ala Obsidian Wahib Aisenberg Ateek Mondoweiss has rather a nice ring to it..

        Sounds very multicultural..

      • Woody Tanaka
        November 26, 2013, 12:00 pm

        Sad, no. Pathetic, yes.

  7. W.Jones
    November 24, 2013, 2:01 pm

    Note to Allison: It is BARELY WALKING, not Barley Walking.

    In the first video linked, some of her answers were funny. She said that a shmuck makes a good husband because he will do anything for her family.

    (As a sidenote, even in her language her voice sounds funny, kind of honky or froggy. I only point it out because an American viewer would not notice it.)

    At 6:30-50 in the clip she says that she was married and her parents did not know about it, and the mother says she did not know. They lived together for two years but she didn’t tell the Mother because “You were not interested in what happened in my life”.

    She says that when she was 18 her parents sent her to live in Israel on the programs that they have, but her parents did not come for her like she expected. The mother says she doesn’t know why the daughter says that. This is getting like Jerry Springer.

    She says in 3rd grade her female teacher said she was a Yid and in 1945 Yids were killed (this would have been in, say 1995?). The program host sympathized with her and was concerned. The mother says that in her own life sometimes she was insulted, and that people are always insulting other people, and it isn’t worth getting into. The host says that he agrees with the mother’s attitude in inter-personal relations but felt the mother was not being supportive enough of her daughter’s feelings.

    Next she says her real family is those she served with, and not her parents. She volunteered for the army because her commander would sit with her for an hour and talk about emotional issues she had, like if a cat got killed on the road. She served 6 years and became a major. (The transcript picks up here)

  8. Walid
    November 24, 2013, 2:50 pm

    About 5 years back, Nufar Yishai-Karin, an IDF psychologist wrote about her interviews with some Israeli soldiers about the violence. Here’s a bit from it that appeared in Haaretz:

    “Parallel lives

    During her army service, Nufar Yishai-Karin witnessed the brutality of young soldiers in her armored infantry unit near Rafah. Now, in a study based on interviews with a new generation of recruits, she reveals the psychological mechanisms behind their violent and abusive behavior toward Palestinians. The soldiers’ stories shocked her, but she believes they are victims, too.

    By Dalia Karpel | Oct. 4, 2007 |

    … The article describes the brutalization of some of the soldiers, even as others remained passive and a minority tried to struggle against the wrongs that were being perpetrated. Among the brutalized group was the impulsive type of soldier, who used the opportunity to let off steam, sometimes enthusiastically.

    Testimony: “I went out on my first patrol … Others on the patrol were just shooting like crazies … I also started shooting like all the others … It was … look, I won’t tell you that it wasn’t cool, because suddenly for the first time you come and hold the weapon seriously, you’re not training in some drill or in some dugout in the dunes, or I don’t know what, or you have some commander who is looking over your shoulder in the firing range. Suddenly you are responsible for what you are doing. You take the gun. You shoot. You do what you want.”

    One of the study’s most shocking findings is that the soldiers enjoyed the intoxication of power no less than the kick they got from the violence. “At one point or another of their service, the majority of the interviewees enjoyed [inflicting] violence,” Yishai-Karin observes in the thesis. “They enjoyed the violence because it broke the routine and they liked the destruction and the chaos. They also enjoyed the feeling of power in the violence and the sense of danger.”

    Testimony: “The truth? When there is chaos and like that, I like it. That’s when I enjoy it. It’s like a drug. If I don’t go into Rafah and if there isn’t some kind of riot once in some week, I go nuts.”

    Another soldier: “The most important thing is that it removes the burden of the law from you. You feel that you are the law. You are the law. You are the one who decides … As though from the moment you leave the place that is called Eretz Yisrael [the Land of Israel] and go through the Erez checkpoint into the Gaza Strip, you are the law. You are God.”

    ‘Everything is permitted’

    The callousness of some of the soldiers produced extreme indifference to the Arabs’ suffering: “We were in a weapon carrier when this guy, around 25, passed by in the street, and just like that, for no reason, he didn’t throw a stone, did nothing – bang, a bullet in the stomach – he shot him in the stomach and the guy is dying on the sidewalk and we keep going, apathetic. No one gave him a second look.”

    There were some tough soldiers who developed an ideology holding that even minor events necessitated a brutal response. “A 3-year-old kid, he can’t throw, he can’t hurt you no matter what he does, but a kid of 19 can. With women I have no problem. With women, one threw a clog at me and I kicked her here [pointing to the crotch], I broke everything there. She can’t have children. Next time she won’t throw clogs at me. When one of them [a woman] spat at me I gave her the rifle butt in the face. She doesn’t have what to spit with anymore.”

    … These soldiers believed that the intifada was a war, and that they had to be professional and maintain “purity of arms” – morality in warfare. But the reality of the situation and the fraternity of fighters prompted some of them to cover up for their friends, even if they stole from homes where they conducted searches or sexually harassed or provoked Arab women.

    … Some junior commanders encouraged the brutality and even endorsed it. “After two months in Rafah a [new] commanding officer arrived … So we do a first patrol with him. It’s 6 A.M., Rafah is under curfew, there isn’t so much as a dog in the streets. Only a little boy of four playing in the sand. He is building a castle in his yard. He [the officer] suddenly starts running and we all run with him. He was from the combat engineers. We all run with him. He grabbed the boy. Nufar, I am a degenerate if I am not telling you the truth. He broke his hand here at the wrist. Broke his hand at the wrist, broke his leg here. And started to stomp on his stomach, three times, and left. We are all there, jaws dropping, looking at him in shock … The next day I go out with him on another patrol, and the soldiers are already starting to do the same thing.”

    link to haaretz.com

    • Woody Tanaka
      November 24, 2013, 3:44 pm

      ” The soldiers’ stories shocked her, but she believes they are victims, too.”

      Talk about immoral… No, they are not victims. At all.

      • ToivoS
        November 24, 2013, 10:19 pm

        Hey wasn’t that Golda Meir — Israeli soldiers are the most moral, they shoot then cry. How can we complain?

    • xanadou
      November 24, 2013, 10:37 pm

      I remember older family members, most of whom had fought in the resistance, recounting their gruesome memories similar to Walid’s quote. About the Gestapo and SS.
      That WW2 horror lasted 6 years. The horror that is Israel is 65 y/o, with no end in sight.

  9. Pamela Olson
    November 24, 2013, 3:01 pm

    I’ve been following Rick Steves’ dispatches from Palestine, and he showed a picture with some cute Palestinian children. Someone wrote, “Sure, children are cute… except when they are taught to hate.”

    I replied, “Listen to yourself. Don’t you realize you are the one who has been taught to hate children you don’t even know?”

    I understand some degree of brainwashing. But this hatred against children? It’s terrifying and incomprehensible to me.

    Even if some given children are brainwashed (which certainly happens all over the world in various guises, not least in Israel itself) — shouldn’t one feel compassion (or at least pity) rather than hatred and contempt? The comprehensiveness of the dehumanization is breathtaking.

    • seafoid
      November 24, 2013, 4:11 pm

      Especially for the people of the shoah. But violence is rarely self contained. You can’t hit your child and assume that is the end of it. The Israelis channel the second world war every day. The trauma lives at the expense of what it used to mean to be jewish. A guard at Auschwitz told inmates “Hier ist kein warum” “There is no why here”. There is no why to explain why Israeli soldiers kill children either.

    • Sibiriak
      November 24, 2013, 9:56 pm

      Pamela,

      Children of the enemy tribe are still enemies and still dangerous. Some might even be little devils, figuratively speaking.

    • ToivoS
      November 24, 2013, 10:23 pm

      It might be incomprehensible, but it was US soldiers in My Lai that killed nearly 100 children. I do not understand how military training leads to that but it is a fact. The entire Israeli education system is one big military training camp. These guys are trained to behave that way.

      • seafoid
        November 25, 2013, 9:50 am

        I think that’s because Israel is so artificial compared to most countries. There is no shared history going back more than 70 years. All they have is this dud ideology. It’s the glue holding them together. They are so afraid of groups like Zochrot. It’s real Wizard of Oz stuff.

  10. BrianEsker
    November 24, 2013, 8:06 pm

    wired to “lie detectors” on a live TV show? The whole thing sounds like a passion play. I say BOGUS.

    • Annie Robbins
      November 24, 2013, 9:00 pm

      I say BOGUS.

      well, the israeli military should get to the bottom of this then, since she claims she’s still on their payroll:

      Q [01:54] Do you still work for the Israeli special forces?

      A: Yes

      DETECTOR: TRUE

      Q: I don’t even know what to ask…

      A: I’ll explain. In Boryspil {international airport near Kyev} there is an Israeli airline {she possibly means El-Al, the only Israeli airline officially operating in Boryspil Airport}, affiliated with the Israeli embassy, and I escort and receive passengers who arrive there.

      • Bing Bong
        November 26, 2013, 5:21 am

        “well, the israeli military should get to the bottom of this then”

        You want the Israeli military to do your fact checking for you? You want Israel to check if a game show called Lie Detectors actually has someone lying on it to win prizes?

        Do your own fact checking before you try to make capital out of stuff like this. Because if you don’t then it just looks like you’ve made a stupid error to try to confirm your own dogmatic opinions which take priority over simple facts.

        Here’s some facts
        1/ This is another example of MW publishing any ill researched story to promote their opinions.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 26, 2013, 5:55 am

        This is another example of MW publishing any ill researched story to promote their opinions.

        it was not “ill researched”. it’s completely transcribed. the woman went on a national tv show and claims she killed children and works for the idf. it’s either true or it isn’t. she also appears to either believe palestinians set up their toddlers on the front line of violence (she’s delusional), or she’s lying. no amount of research can determine what’s in her mind, nor is it relevant.

        You want the Israeli military to do your fact checking for you?

        this is a pr disaster for israel. and it’s not ‘my fact checking’. a story on the TV show is a story. Abir Kopty covered it to the T and it was reported here, by allison, accurately as well. then ma’an news.

        and it’s spreading link to israelnationalnews.com

        Ukranian Game Show features Anti-Israel ‘Blood Libel’

        there have been multiple cases of individual soldiers going rogue via social media the iof stepped in. this falls into that general category of offense. so, my hunch is the iof will make some statement if we can keep the heat on.

        at a minimum one would imagine the israeli military will be confirming if she’s currently employed with them. if she’s been in the army for 6 years or not. if she is a major as she claims.

        if all of that is untrue then the ‘lie detection’ process on the show is likely a big hoax. the woman is either a liar or delusional.

      • Woody Tanaka
        November 26, 2013, 7:03 am

        “You want the Israeli military to do your fact checking for you? ”

        Absolutely. Only they have the ability to check their enlistment and other records to determine the veracity of this woman’s statements. If they don’t issue a denial, it’s demonstrates a basis for believing her story.

      • Cliff
        November 26, 2013, 7:14 am

        What ill researched story would that be, troll?

        Why don’t you do the research since you implicitly defend this type of behavior?

      • Bumblebye
        November 26, 2013, 12:28 pm

        Bing Bong
        Will they be fact checking or silent about Arnon Milchan’s revelations that he was inded a spy and an arms dealer? Or will the FBI investigate his claimed spying in the US for Israel (hah!)?
        link to guardian.com

        “Arnon Milchan gave a lengthy interview to the Israeli documentary programme Uvda, broadcast on Monday on Channel 2, confirming claims made earlier in an unauthorised biography that he worked for an Israeli agency which negotiated arms deals and supported Israel’s secret nuclear weapons project.

        Milchan, who was born in Israel, was recruited as a young businessman to the Bureau of Scientific Relations by Shimon Peres, now Israel’s president, in the 1960s. The bureau, which worked to obtain scientific and technical information for secret defence programmes, closed in 1987.”

    • Woody Tanaka
      November 24, 2013, 9:18 pm

      A passion play? Are you crazy? I would say that comparing a television show to the reenactment of the Christian’s reenactment of the most important moment in the history of the world to them is about as anti-Christian as it gets. You should go beg forgiveness for that bigotry.

    • LeaNder
      November 26, 2013, 1:33 pm

      i have to retreat on that, after looking into Oximity the Berlin/London start up that spread the news. On first sight that seems to be an enterprise challenging MSM by recruiting a lot of people supporting it via their work. Abir Copty apparently did, or at least on first sight, as a PhD student in Berlin.

      What puzzles me in this context and strictly I have no solution for it, is the same I tried to convince artists about: Don’t worry about negative media responses as long as there is partly the wrong reason for it. News is news anyway ….

      But strictly while Copty in this specific case spreads the news about a racist policy in the IDF, it also spreads the at mythical children imagery that are training their kids as terrorists at a really early age, or use them as defensive shields. Thus simple translation may not be quite enough. Just as at least theoretically to get these news over may have a secondary motive, trying to pick up on European anti-Zionist sentiment while at the same time getting a different message in under that radar. I do not really have a solution to this paradox.

      But I have no solution to this basic problem, nor do I have evidence beyond facing a dilemma at one point dealing with these news supporting my suspicion of 2013 Berlin/London start up Oximity.

      And now, I have to face once again serious dead line troubles. Last chance, so to speak, time is running out. ;)

  11. xanadou
    November 24, 2013, 10:18 pm

    I have a major problem with the unconscionable idiocy about 3-4 y/olds throwing Molotov cocktails. Has anyone ever seen kids of that age throwing anything? Whatever the object, it usually lands at the kid’s feet, or at rare “best” 1-2 feet away. A M.cocktail in the hands of a child with under-developed balance and body coordination, is way too big and too heavy an object to hide or wield with any amount of effectiveness. Something is seriously wrong with this narrative. Is the woman using the dumb game as a vehicle to give herself a few minutes of illusory importance, or is her nonchalance a reflection of the Nazi-style training of the Israeli army? Blood curdling either way. Oh, and don’t get me started on the idea of a tottering child with iffy balance being viewed as a threat to the armed to their teeth and well-trained combat zombies.

    Israel and its regime are out of control. If the First Yahoo is not replaced very soon and by someone with a modicum of common sense, the sooner Israel gives up the macabre ghost that it has become, the better for the ME and the world.

    Then there is this strange woman-as-baby-killer who does not want to be with her own family. What it that sorry once-human being projecting? One also wonders why would the Israelis even grant permission for this grisly exhibition? The mind is seriously boggled…

  12. Taxi
    November 25, 2013, 1:06 am

    And if a Palestinian claimed on TV that she’d been killing jewish kids, I wonder if the TV station would ever air it. Or if she would leave the TV studios a free woman and not in handcuffs.

    • Sibiriak
      November 25, 2013, 2:50 am

      Taxi:

      And if a Palestinian claimed on TV that she’d been killing jewish kids, I wonder if the TV station would ever air it. Or if she would leave the TV studios a free woman and not in handcuffs.

      Unlike Palestinian kids, Jewish kids, we imagine, are always innocent non-combatants, so if a Palestinian were to kill one, yes, she would be presumed to have committed a heinous crime.

  13. LeaNder
    November 25, 2013, 11:57 am

    Ok, I asked Abir this:

    How did you verify this, Abir?

    An Israeli-Ukrainian soldier in a media start up seemingly based in Berlin on a site registered in London. The registrant of the firm hires people with all type of languages in Berlin? So you are a media analyst? Working where exactly in Palestine or London?

    Are you still in Palestine, Allison. Do you know this “media analyst?

    Could this be a disinformation campaign?

    • miriam6
      November 26, 2013, 12:15 pm

      LeaNder asked

      Are you still in Palestine, Allison. Do you know this “media analyst?
      Could this be a disinformation campaign?

      When is Alison Deger going to reply to these questions?

  14. ThorsteinVeblen2012
    November 25, 2013, 12:42 pm

    Perhaps a bit off topic but I like the concept.

    I sure would like to see Dick Cheney, George W. Bush and Henry Kissinger on such a show.

    Can you imagine the Presidential debates with candidates hooked up to lie detectors?

    I might start watching television again

  15. homingpigeon
    November 25, 2013, 2:00 pm

    I hope someone can really track this story down for veracity. I thought it was so weird that it had to be a fake or that she is spinning a tall tale. There seems to be a genre of story becoming popular on the internet these days that goes beyond satire. These stories appear to be horrific and true on first reading. They reinforce the beliefs of many who read them who then go wild commenting. The more viral the story goes the more successful the prank. At some point it is revealed that the story is a hoax and people who took it seriously have egg on their faces. They reveal themselves as gullible and manifesting severe confirmation bias. I can imagine hasbarist pranksters planting wild stories of Israeli atrocities, getting us all worked up as we forward and comment, and then accusing us of spreading false anti-Semitic stories. Discrepancies have been pointed out in this Ukrainian woman’s spiel, but I still haven’t heard the final word. Any update?

    • yrn
      November 25, 2013, 3:37 pm

      homingpigeon
      Any update?
      The professional reporter and journalist Annie Robbins will be able to give you an update.
      As in many occasions before, She is an experienced in-depth investigations and based conclusions.

  16. SQ Debris
    November 25, 2013, 3:22 pm

    The IDF has certainly made a career of shooting Palestinian children. Their job is incitement and they approach it with professional gusto. That said, take a good hard look at this gal. Does she look 28? Or 30? That’s how old she’d have to be to have been in the IDF when Arafat died. My guess is that this is a fraud. On the other hand, the transcript of the show that Abir has posted (link to abirkopty.wordpress.com) indicates that the young woman passed the polygraph. That doesn’t prove anything either. The belief system called zionism is a twisted fantasy construct. Its adherents actually believe the remarkable fabrications used to make their Big Project morally and intellectually palatable. Truth is taking a long lunch where they’re concerned.

  17. Talkback
    November 25, 2013, 6:22 pm

    Israeli soldiers hate Nonjews in general, and nonjewish children in particular.

    #Israelhates

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