On the 3rd anniversary of the democratic uprising, is there hope for Egypt?

Middle East
on 28 Comments
Tahrir Square, February 2011

Tahrir Square, February 2011

The latest news from Egypt continues to depress.  Three years after masses of brave demonstrators filled Tahrir Square, the new military government continues to arrest thousands of innocent people — with the apparent support of a majority of Egyptians.  The security forces have also libeled the Muslim Brotherhood as “terrorist,” despite no evidence, outlawed the organization and killed at least hundreds of its members.  Even so, the military leader, General Abdul-Fattah el-Sisi, seems widely popular, and he will almost certainly win the next election.

Joel Beinin, a professor at Stanford, is a Middle East expert with years of experience in Egypt, including his studies of the labor movement.  He takes a longer-term look, and he is surprisingly optimistic:

[Observers] have concluded that the party is over and have pronounced the failure of the Egyptian revolution.  I beg to disagree.

Beinin’s argument is simple but persuasive.  First, the 2011 uprising was a response to terrible social conditions and deep structural problems, which include the unequal distribution of power and wealth and massive youth unemployment. Despite General Sisi’s unquestionable popularity, there is little to suggest he has a plausible response to this profound crisis.

Second, the massive protests of the past three years have shown Egyptians they can change their government. Beinin explains:

The most radical achievement of the 2011 uprising is that the Egyptian people, after nearly sixty years when meaningful public participation was banned, found their voices.  They removed two presidents through popular street action in the course of two and a half years.  It will be very difficult, but not theoretically impossible, to suppress the memory of the millions of Egyptians who were exhilarated by the discovery of their power.  Revolutions take many years to unfold.”

There are parallels from Europe, (although Beinin does not mention them).  In France, both the revolution of 1789 and the 1848 uprising were followed by Thermidorian reactions that brought strongmen to power to “restore order”: first, the Emperor Napoleon, and then his nephew, Napoleon III.

But the popular advances were not entirely reversed, and after reactionary pauses, the French people pushed on for more democracy.

Only a fool would try and predict Egypt’s future with any precision.  But General el-Sisi should enjoy his days in the sun while they last.  If in a year, or two, youth unemployment remains astronomical and corruption at senior levels is not checked, Egyptians already know how to find their way to Tahrir Square.

 

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28 Responses

  1. HarryLaw
    January 25, 2014, 3:26 pm

    The last opposition newspaper operating in Egypt, El-Shaab, has just been closed down, the interim Prime Minister Al-beblawy said its unprofessional practices and its explicit incitement to violence and terrorism against the state was the reason, they are moving against any opposition, left right and centre, can they get away with it? Well that 12 billion from the GCC countries should last awhile, but then what? I see major trouble ahead. https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/africa/9428-egypt-military-backed-government-bans-last-opposition

  2. seafoid
    January 25, 2014, 3:42 pm

    “is there hope for Egypt”

    No. Not this side of the collapse of Zionism.

    • just
      January 25, 2014, 4:00 pm

      That certainly has much to do with it, seafoid.

      An end to our machinations, hypocrisy, and war- making would also be most welcome.

    • Ellen
      January 25, 2014, 4:21 pm

      For sure. On the other side of Zionism, Egypt could become the most “normal” and prosperous country in the MIdEast in a generation or two. Would KSA and Qatar prevent that if they could?

      Some Egyptians miss their old King Farouk. Or rather the romantic ideas of their past king.

  3. Walid
    January 25, 2014, 5:44 pm

    This is the beginning of the disintegration of Egypt. With thousands of Brothers tucked away in jail, their political party “delegitimized”, their media shut down, how can there be hope?

    • gamal
      January 25, 2014, 6:50 pm

      “This is the beginning of the disintegration of Egypt”

      In Egypt the army is the enemy, the election of Morsi achieved nothing the army will have to be confronted, Egypt isnt disintegrating it is entering a confused hyper violent kind of pre-revolutionary phase, everyone is screaming unity, see below, but the army only knows one way, there is just an ocean of rage and frustration, and a determination to fight, some on one side some on the other, the working class/peasantry using Morsi as a rallying point, the Egyptian quenelle is a play on 4 and rabia, remembering the armies heroic victory against the ‘terrorists’ at the Rabiya mosque, my people on the ground are exhausted but steadfast, i wouldnt trust pols, in the democratic republic Egypt of today I wouldnt tell any stranger anything controversial. but there wont be any disintegrating, if events take an Iranian turn the army will kill spectactularly huge numbers and then we will see

      http://youtu.be/dkYwIJq_ySs

    • ziusudra
      January 26, 2014, 5:41 am

      Greetings Walid,
      Mahaba, Habibi
      J.N….. The French People pushed on for more Democracy…..
      It ( only) took ca. 80 yrs after the Rev.
      Chucran, Mash’Salaam.
      ziusudra
      PS a Student asked his Guru how long will it take to reach nirvana?
      The Guru said, the sum in yrs of leaves of this tree, we are sitting under
      -2 milion!-
      The Student quipped, Ah, so few!

  4. American
    January 25, 2014, 6:01 pm

    Read that Gen. Sisi is going to run for President…be ‘installed’ is more like it.
    Told ya so.

  5. seafoid
    January 25, 2014, 10:55 pm

    Lakhbatah gaamidah. Abdel Halim’s People are going through the wringer. Cairo used to send a special cover for the kaaba in mecca by camel train. Pre oil egypt had culture and class. Saudi didn’t. Doesn’t. Jahaliyeh. Saudi Islam is a fraud.

  6. Taxi
    January 26, 2014, 12:57 am

    Let me pass the box of kleenex around – good grief it’s like a funeral parlor in here while it’s partaaaaaaay time in Tahrir square!

    ANYTHING is better than an islamist freak in power and this is what most Egyptians think and want and have made sure of!

    Good for them – go Egypt!!!!

    James North hasn’t a clue about what it is to have lived and died under dictatorships for decades – and before it, lived and died for evenl more decades under colonialism and fake monarchies. Not a clue about what it’s like to have a gang of praying extremists in your huddled neighborhood threatening to destroy your past (the ‘pagan’ pyramids), your present (your life!) and your future (your kids’ lives!). James North happily just skipperood right over the violent history of the brotherhood, their terroristic present, their contemptible anti-freedom manifesto, their political assassinations, starting with their attempt on General Nasser AFTER he offered them the olive branch and a place in government, etc etc. Why James has decided that the brotherhood in Egypt are the angels here is utterly beyond me. This article is an ‘Omarification’ of Egypt!!

    I, the non-praying type, pray everyday that wahabism and ALL its uglier step-brothers go to the same freaking hell zionists go to!!!

    And all your people here moaning boohoo and clever-clever I-told-you-so’s, what exactly did you have in mind for Egypt? A Norwegian style democracy overnight? Get real! Egypt is a million times better off WITHOUT the bastard traitorous islamists, difficult as the road ahead may be. Dear James, why didn’t you post a link by an EGYPTIAN about Egypt? Who cares what a freaking guy in Stamford ‘stuuuuuuudiosly’ thinks? Why not have quoted two EGYPTIAN opposing voices?? Talked to somebody, like a Copt or a secularist or a goddam 18 year old Egyptian girl?! Really lazy journalism here – relying completely on academics and completely void of grass-root pulse.

    Okay…. the above was a gut reaction to this ridiculous article. I’ll be back in a bit to dissect James’ pieshshshsh bit by bit. Hopefully I’ll have time today, otherwise, maniana – and adios to all the schizophrenics out there who are against the brotherhood in Syria but for them in Egypt. (Man! I’ll never understand that one!)

    In the meantime, liven up willya?! It’s not the end of the world, nor is it the end of Egypt.

    GO GO GO Egypt!

    • Walid
      January 26, 2014, 4:07 am

      Taxi, you’re putting every opposing fighter in Syria into the same takfiri basket and this is far from being the case. Although I, like you dislike religion-driven people because I don’t share their ideology, you still have to recognize that the Brothers in Syria had a valid beef against the regime from being suppressed for over 40 years in much the same manner as the Brothers had been in Egypt. My first reaction when the Brothers and the Salafists came back in force after Mubarak was deposed was that Egypt was going to the dogs. So I’m not disappointed at seeing the Brothers removed from power, but I’m very disappointed in the rash way this was done since they had been elected democratically. The situation is not very different from what happened in Gaza when Hamas was put in the doghouse when it won the elections fair and square. Why would you refuse the unjust treatment of the Hamas Brothers and yet don’t think there is anything wrong with the removal of the Brothers in Egypt? Egyptians should have been allowed to bite the bullet and wait until the next elections to throw them out.

      A soon as Mubarak fell, the conflict between the 2 fundamentalist groups, Brothers and Salafists, that had been raging on and off of one trying to overpower the other since the 1970s in mosques, universities and charities started flaring up because both wanted to have the upper hand in the coming parliamentary elections that had been opened to them by the Americans. Obscenities, accusations and allegations were exchanged between the Brothers and the Salafists leading up to the elections. The big clash between them had been in 1980 when the Brothers blocked the Salafists from spreading their influence over the university in Alexandria. After the election in which the Salafists took a quarter of seats, Morsi that they had boycotted in the first round of voting began weeding out the Salafists and the promised participation in drafting the new constitution and sharing in the power never happened, which compounded the distrust between the 2 groups and after ratification of the constitution the Brothers began openly marginalizing and excluding them. When the army went after Morsi and the Brothers, the Salafists just stood in the sidelines and watched. Now you have something of a peace between the army and the Salafist that are both backed by the Saudis.

      So your revolution of 3 years back that really wan’t a revolution at all is now history. Expect new measures favourable to the Salafists to be implemented gradually by the army since both are under the same patronage. In the last 24 hours of celebrations, 49 civilians and 4 soldiers were killed and hundreds injured all over Egypt. What’s left of the pseudo revolution by the students is still alive but hardly breathing. There were riots in the suburbs by hundreds kids in small pockets that are claiming that their “revolution” had nothing to do with the army ending up taking over. They were met with tear gas and quickly dispersed.

      James appears to know what it’s about more than you think. His question is very valid and he’s implying there won’t be hope until Sisi finishes his brief stay in power in a couple of years. This is just about the same time the problem would have been resolved with the new elections, so all this mess wasn’t really necessary; Sisi is not the messiah as is being pretended.

      • Taxi
        January 26, 2014, 6:48 am

        Walid,

        I was about to address James’ points, but instead I’ll use the time I have for now to address your post.

        “Taxi, you’re putting every opposing fighter in Syria into the same takfiri basket and this is far from being the case. Although I, like you dislike religion-driven people because I don’t share their ideology, you still have to recognize that the Brothers in Syria had a valid beef against the regime from being suppressed for over 40 years in much the same manner as the Brothers had been in Egypt….”

        Maybe over there in Canada, Walid, you have fay luxury of distinguishing between mat black and gloss black, but over here in the mideast, after decades of trials and errors, there is no such distinction: black is black, be it gloss or mat black. The wahabists and all their freakazoid branches have been pushing to invade the secular, multi-confessional Levant and north Africa for eons and I for one am glad they’ve had failure after failure in Egypt and NO SUCCESS in Syria, either under Hafez or under Bashar. No sympathy for the devil from me!!! ALL islamists are anti-democratic, merciless liars and political opportunists who are clones of the worst zionists: shooting at multi-culturaism then running around like headless chickens crying foul when they get slammed back by the authorities. Please don’t tell me that a fully-fledged democratic Syrian leader, if there was one, would welcome the treasonous usurping activities of the ‘brothers’ in Syria, that this imagined Syrian democratically elected leader would not clam down hard on internal violent elements and entities. I give you Wacco, for exapmple. The problem with your thinking, Walid, is that you think democracies are ALWAYS kind to their people – well it doesn’t always work that way and especially during times of political upheavals. Everywhere in the Levant, the ‘brothers’ are a minority trying to violently control the majority. I hope they keep getting clubbed till they either change ideologies, or keep their ideologies to themselves and not force them on others.

        Your comparison between Hamas winning elections and Mursi winning elections is completely wrong: Hamas won a POLITICAL victory fair and square and were punished for it mostly by outsiders in the international community – Hamas at the time had huge support from secular and christian Palestinians, whereas the Egyptian brotherhood won a RELIGIO-POLITICAL victory, with NO BACKING FROM MINORITIES AND SECULARS, then performed abysmally and criminally and got punished for it by the MASSES they ruthlessly ruled over. Also, all saudi money bought in Egypt was a temporary safety period for the Salafist demon-spawns: don’t for a second imagine that the Egyptian army and security apparatus is not keeping a keen eye on the filth that is salafism – and their turn for defeat will come, with or without saudi backing, the Egyptian people themselves will keep them voted out of power. The more important thing that saudi money has bought in Egypt is a regional big shoulder to lean on when they fell out with Obama – such freaking cowards – they’ve historically always hid behind Egypt’s big skirt. Unless you can provide proof that saudi is being allowed by the Egyptian army to dabble in Egypt’s internal affairs, then all your hand-wringing about saudi money’s value in Egypt is a conspiracy not based on fact. The regional rules have changed – it’s NOT business as usual for saudi Arabia and evidence of their diminishing influence in the region is palpable and everywhere. You preferring, from the safety of your cushy crib in Canada, for Egyptians to have hung in there with Morsi for three more years for the sake of ‘democracy’ is the same as asking an abused woman to hang in there with her abusive husband for a few more years till their children grow up. I’m glad Mursi was exposed and evicted after a year – let that be a lesson for all incompetent, discriminating islamists all over. The will of the majority IS democracy, Walid, and the majority of Egyptians wanted Mursi OUT for good reason – with or without the army’s help, it was the will of the majority that legitimized and facilitated his ouster.

        You can go ahead and call the Egyptian revolution whatever you like – call it rhubarbs for all I care – I believe Egyptians would use more colorful language than this if you denied them their revolution in their face. The fact remains, despite the street clashes and deaths, we can safely say at least 80 million people in the mideast have been rescued from the ruinous plague that is islamism. And don’t you worry about the revolution – imperfect in your eyes as it may be – it’s alive and well and kicking, no one has forgotten it, as was clearly demonstrated by the outpouring of celebrations in Tahrir and on social media yesterday. And if they chose Sisi for president, so what? Egypt has a history of choosing military men for leaders in times of economic hardship and political upheavals. It’s their choice and the current environment demands it from them. Or you think they should put a dance instructor in power while the trashed-out brotherhood are planting carbombs all over the place to show their ‘democratic’ displeasure? The upheavals are part of the reaction to the revolution – the longer the brotherhood use violence for political revenge on the streets of Cairo et all, the deeper they bury themselves. The Egyptian army, like any other army in the world, will do what is necessary to subdue a minority of armed and violent cells hellbent on dominating the majority.

        (I’m not finished yet but I gotta dash – but I’ll be back to finish laterz).

    • puppies
      January 26, 2014, 5:57 am

      @Taxi – Not so fast. You still haven’t explained away the military takeover of a duly elected government. No one has yet. All your likes and dislikes remain irrelevant to that one question.

      • Taxi
        January 26, 2014, 9:15 am

        puppies,

        Oh I’ve “explained” alright, but NOT “away”, dear. That “away” belongs to your personal perception. Go to my archives: plenty ‘splaining there.

        Call it not a revolution but a ‘military takeover’ all you like. Your version of what happened versus 80 million Egyptian people’s version. Whose version do you think matters? Whose ‘reality’ do you think you’re denying and “explaining away” here?

        You may not know this but the Egyptian people ACTUALLY KNOW their army is in charge – they’re not deluded and dumb like you’re disrespectfully insinuating. But the thing is, what I hope you will understand some day, is that the Egyptian people, IN REALITY, need the army to be in charge – they want them to be in charge because of the post REVOLUTION violence and terrorism still being perpetrated and committed by the wahabi hydras in Egypt. Sore, vengeful, blood-thirsty losers that they are. Why are you annoyed at Egyptians for choosing their military as their protectors? I mean, that’s what a country’s military is for: PROTECTING THE PEOPLE.

        You may not like this, puppies, but I think Egyptian people know the evils of the ‘brotherhood’ better than you do – after all, they had to endure living with them for decades – whereas you’ve only ever read about them in the press.

        And in the grand geo-political scheme of things, the downfall of the islamists in the middle east, be it in Egypt or elsewhere, is a step forward to liberating the mideast as a whole. Yeah it’s a rough ride to freedom but so be it. Without the downfall of BOTH zionism and wahabism, the middle east cannot have peace and Palestine, specifically, cannot be physically liberated.

        I am utterly against the violent divvying up of the middle east to favor either zionism or wahabism/islamism – which is what is currently being attempted at so blatantly and so criminally. And we all should know that without zionism and wahabism, American Empire has no steady footing in the middle east. And without a steady footing, Empire is sure to leave, just like they left Vietnam. Left so as to ‘live to fight another war’ – our beloved military motto. No, we Americans are not masadists, we are survivors. Just like the Egyptians are, in their very own way, expert survivors. Well they’ve lasted from rickety ancient times till now, so I guess no one can deny their incredible talents for life and for living.

      • James North
        January 26, 2014, 9:46 am

        Taxi: I nowhere endorse the Muslim Brotherhood. I point out that there is no evidence whatsoever that they have turned to violence now, in 2014, (and their alleged attack on Nasser in the 1950s doesn’t count).
        Even so, the new government has outlawed the Brotherhood, jailed its leaders and members, and killed hundreds, possibly thousands of them. These are massive violations of human rights.
        Do you justify jailing and killing innocent people?

      • yrn
        January 26, 2014, 1:58 pm

        James North
        When its not concerning Israel.
        Everything is OK for Taxi.

      • Taxi
        January 26, 2014, 3:41 pm

        Thanks for engaging with me, James. I respect your POV on the I/P conflict, but I think you’re wrong about your Egypt assessment. Plus I have to admit that I find it very intellectually bothersome that we’re discussing a Stamford academic’s POV of Egypt and not an Egyptian’s view of Egypt. We always do this in the West; for example: we talk amongst ourselves about the Chinese then analyze our own discussion, instead of talking directly to a Chinese then analyzing what they actually say.

        I’m sorry to tell you that you are inadvertently defending the brotherhood by dismissing their violent history. For example, you’re saying that “there is no evidence whatsoever that they have turned to violence now, in 2014, (and their alleged attack on Nasser in the 1950s doesn’t count).”

        Are you serious?! It’s the 26th of January today, and you’re declaring the brotherhood as innocent victims on the basis that there has been no evidence of brotherhood crimes for the past 26 days? Come on, James, James, James – you are way better than this. It’s like you’re saying: well the serial rapist with a record of raping hasn’t raped for 26 days so therefore he’s not a rapist. No way does that fly as a cogent argument in any court of law!

        And when you use the word “alleged” in reference to the brotherhood’s attempted assassination on Nasser back in 1953 – well, I gotta tell you James, you’re the only man on the planet who is doubting the brotherhood’s FULL involvement in the attempted assassination. It is actually a historical fact: Nasser was giving a speech, his brotherhood assassin was present and fired his gun and missed and was promptly arrested right then and there on the spot. No, James, there is no ‘allegation’ here, there is a FULL CONFESSIONAL and hundreds of witnesses for pete’s sakes! And to dismiss this substantial political crime as irrelevant because it happened way back in the 50’s, again is just utterly illogical. Again, it’s like saying that the serial rapist’s history of rape is irrelevant and shouldn’t really be produced in court because it’s in their past.

        In case you didn’t know, James, the brotherhood had actually started their campaign of political assassinations way before Nasser when they actually successfully assassinated the Egyptian prime minister, Nakrashi Basha in 1948. I’m demonstrating to you here, using facts, that the brotherhood has a long history of using violence for political ends – it’s called terrorism, by the way.

        Here’s wiki on Nasser’s attempted assassination – it’s in the first paragraph:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamal_Abdel_Nasser

        Here’s an interesting and in-depth read titled, “FIVE DECADES OF ISLAMIC RESURGENCE IN EGYPT,1930 –1980:PORTRAITS OF CHARISMATIC LEADERS”. This will also give you info on the assassination of Prime Minister Basha as well as a comprehensive overview of islamism in Egypt:
        http://www.academia.edu/4290034/PORTRAITS_OF_CHARISMATICLEADERS

        “Even so, the new government has outlawed the Brotherhood, jailed its leaders and members, and killed hundreds, possibly thousands of them. These are massive violations of human rights.
        Do you justify jailing and killing innocent people?”

        James, do you not think that the brotherhood’s history of political violence, as well as their ongoing terrorist campaigns in Sinai, in Alexandria, in Cairo, in Port Said etc has something to do with their arrests? Come on dude, criminals get arrested, not fawned over. You’d better believe if the kkk started a campaign of urban carbombs in crowded areas, blowing up police stations and army checkpoints, setting churches and museums on fire, and threatening the civilian opposition with “rivers of blood”, they too would damn well become “outlawed” overnight!

        Do I “justify killing and jailing innocent people?” Of course I freaking don’t, James! Unlike you though, I’m better researched on the subject of Egypt to know that the brotherhood is NOT an innocent actor.

        James, I respect you, but I really don’t reckon your shabby sources on Egypt.

        The brotherhood has a history of ‘shoot and cry’ too – just like the zionists do – just like all lying extremists do – sorry to tell you buddy but you fell for it.

      • Taxi
        January 26, 2014, 4:01 pm

        yrn,

        You’re the one with the blood of a WHOLE nation on your hands, not me.

        Colonialist, racists ziobots like you need a good dunk in moral bleach.

      • puppies
        January 26, 2014, 1:31 pm

        @Taxi – The bare fact remains, a duly elected government was toppled by a military dictatorship (one brought back after a short parenthesis by a common US-Zio-Saudi effort, btw: that should be the criterion in deciding action.)
        I don’t wish you to ever have to live under a military dictatorship with nowhere to flee. I also cannot approve the patronizing way some talk about the military protecting the people like so many kindergarteners.
        (And, note, my knowledge of the actors involved is unfortunately immediate, even though many people might also get a fair idea by reading enough.)

      • Taxi
        January 26, 2014, 3:58 pm

        puppies,

        The army is in control while an interim CIVILIAN government is working towards new elections. Which part of this factual equation do you not understand?

        If a new Egyptian president was elected tomorrow and the army refused to budge from it’s position of power, dismissed the civilian government by force and installed army personnel in government offices, only then can you call it a military dictatorship.

        Lets get our definitions right, people. Otherwise MW bloggers are gonna start looking like amateur train-spotters.

      • James North
        January 26, 2014, 4:31 pm

        Taxi: There is no evidence — whatsoever — to connect the Muslim Brotherhood in 2014 with “ongoing terrorist campaigns in Sinai, in Alexandria, in Cairo, in Port Said.” The Brotherhood renounced violence decades ago, and there is no proof — whatsoever — that they are behind these attacks.
        Other small jihadist groups have claimed credit for the attacks; the Brotherhood leadership, even in hiding, has denounced violence; all the major human rights organizations agree that the government is killing and jailing hundreds, if not thousands.
        It is also no surprise that the government has turned on the secular opposition as well in recent days.
        Human rights are sacrosanct. Just because we don’t agree with the Brothers doesn’t give us the the right to stand quietly by as they are arrested unfairly and killed.

      • MHughes976
        January 26, 2014, 4:34 pm

        The BBC reports suggest that presidential rather than parliamentary elections will be the next step with Sisi as the overwhelmingly favoured candidate.

      • Taxi
        January 26, 2014, 5:35 pm

        James,

        There are investigations into the recent bombings going on. Numerous Brotherhood weapons cashes have been impounded. There are daily threats of violence from the brotherhood supporters going on – who do you think is egging them onto the streets if not their leaders?

        All you have to do is read the news of sinai violence to see the mayhem that the brotherhood and their ‘small’ tribal affiliates are creating. And NO the leadership has not denounced violence – where is your link to the leadership’s statement?

        Look, James. This is how islamists work in the mideast: they bomb, then they get their smaller groupies, often unknown, to claim responsibility – this gives the brotherhood cover and the groupie jihadists profile and prestige. It’s an old trick. I see it happening here all the time in Lebanon.

        Also, the government has not “turned on the secular opposition as well in recent days”. Arresting three activists because they defied a ban on a single protest does not make for the government TURNING ON THE WHOLE SECULAR OPPOSITION, like you’re implying. Believe you, me, no one is happier for the brotherhood’s downfall than the secularists in Egypt. No one supports the secular army like the Egyptian secularists do.

        Human rights are NOT sacrosanct in Egypt – there are close to NINETY MILLION people in Egypt and only the violent brotherhood are complaining. I don’t hear anyone else complaining about their human rights in Egypt.

        James, no one should be arrested unfairly and killed and no we should not just stand idly by when this happens. Of course injustices can happen when a citizen is arrested – just ask the LAPD! Sh*t like this freaking happens all the time and everywhere. Yet we all just stand by and read about it, talk about it, wring our hands then have another cheeseburger, or jog, or cigarette, or beer or snooze or whatever. I mean to say, you are stating the obvious whose principles I already agree with you on. My concern is that your article is not presenting facts, context, nuance or even specific cases. It’s all generalized info punctuated by inaccuracies.

        It’s past midnight where I am. I thank you for engaging with me, and I apologize if I have in any way offended. It’s so rare to see articles by you these days and for what it’s worth, I will look forward to your next article.

      • puppies
        January 26, 2014, 5:43 pm

        @Taxi – Still not getting it. Your “civilians” are unelected and brought by the military dictatorship, who keeps all power. They don’t count.
        And no, it’s already a military dictatorship as it already fulfilled what was necessary to be called that. Not only that, but it’s a continuation of the old military dictatorship.
        There were millions of people like you in the jolly old times of the 90-year military dictatorship in Turkey (which we don’t even know yet to be buried for sure, touch wood.) They’d be jumping up and down to legitimate each new avatar of the same old when the “civilian” façade of the day would once more br taken down. Anyway, talk to you in a couple years.

      • Taxi
        January 27, 2014, 12:51 am

        Puppies,

        “There were millions of people like you in the jolly old times of the 90-year military dictatorship in Turkey”

        So you were around in the “jolly old times” and you personally met me there and “millions” of other horrible people? Yeah sure, grandma, I too remember you from way back the Ottoman days. Sheesh!

      • puppies
        January 28, 2014, 1:50 am

        @Taxi (still no reply buttons) – Of course I was there, granddaughter, and remember it all very vividly starting 1950 (ie that portion of the 90 years; the rest is accessible by reading and interviewing.) And yes, I keep and maintain all contacts and travel a lot for my age. Anyway, this is only to establish that the observed similarity is hallucinating. Why not, after all? It’s a true-and-tried strategy in the service of the same overlords.

  7. lysias
    January 26, 2014, 6:06 pm

    Was it “popular street action” or a military coup that deposed Morsi?

    I am really depressed by how seldom our media report that Morsi was legitimately elected, just as they seldom report that the Ukrainian government was legitimately elected. (And just as they seldom reported after the coup in Honduras that Zelaya had been legitimately elected.)

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