CNN showed ‘blatant’ bias when Blitzer aired Oren saying 2 killed Palestinians may not be dead — Munayyer

Israel/Palestine
on 66 Comments

 

Michael Oren on Wolf Blitzer's CNN show yesterday, from Gus's twitter feed

Michael Oren on Wolf Blitzer’s CNN show yesterday, from Gus’s twitter feed

In the wake of the killings by Israeli forces of two Palestinian youths at a Nakba Day demonstration in the occupied West Bank on May 15, CNN aired an excellent report by Ivan Watson providing evidence that Israelis fired live shells at the teenagers. And then, as we noted, CNN’s Wolf Blitzer had on former Israeli ambassador Michael Oren, now a CNN “analyst,” to suggest that the killings were the “staged” work of Palestinians.

Yousef Munayyer now develops the story: “Wolf Lets Oren Howl at CNN Colleague’s Work.” Excerpts: 

Yet, after the [Ivan Watson] package showing Israeli soldiers firing and killing a Palestinian teen was completed, Blitzer turns to his CNN colleague Watson and asks:

“Ivan, a little while ago you spoke with an IDF, an Israel Defense Forces spokesman. What did he say?”

I guess Blitzer wanted to make sure viewers heard the official Israeli perspective, even though it was already provided at the very beginning of the clip. So, Watson proceeds to relay the comments of the Israeli military spokesman again. At this point you’d think Blitzer, the former AIPAC employee, was framing the segment with his questions to ensure the Israel perspective on the events overtook any impression the horrifying video had on CNN’s viewers. And then Blitzer says:

“Ivan, I want you to stand by because Michael Oren is here. He’s the former Israeli ambassador to the United States, former spokesman earlier in his career for the Israel Defense Forces as well.”

Yup, that’s right. Not only do we get an official quote from the Israeli perspective to start the clip, not only is the reporter then asked to repeat the Israeli perspective after the clip, a former Israeli official is brought on to comment about it.

Oren, if you may not know, became a CNN contributor earlier this year. Oren proceeds to dismiss the video by claiming that “we don’t know anything” about what happened. He even says the two boys, whose funeral processions and burials were filmed heremay not even be dead and that the entire thing might be staged.

For Oren, it is just as likely or more so that these masses were staged, that these burials were staged, that those corpses were not corpses, that the tears, wails and laments of family and friends were not real, than it is likely for an Israeli soldier to shoot and kill a Palestinian child.

How disgusting a human being must you be to make such a claim? If you have the stomach for it, the entire transcript is here.

This is as blatant as I have ever seen the pro-Israel bias on this network. What you have here is a segment with three CNN employees, two of them, Blitzer and Oren, have very clear and obvious pasts working to support Israel and its image in the United States. Together, these two heap all sorts of skepticism and doubt on the journalism of their very own CNN colleague. If you were confused about what their priorities are, you shouldn’t be anymore.

This is Zionism and this, sadly, is CNN.

Let’s go to that transcript. Here are excerpts. Note that Oren promises a trial of the soldiers if they used live fire. I keep thinking of how Wolf Blitzer would have covered Kent State. Giving the National Guard the microphone?

MICHAEL OREN, CNN MIDEAST ANALYST: Good to be with you, Wolf, always. Israel has had a lot of experience with pictures like this going back to 2000. Remember the Mohamed al Doura case which helped trigger the second Intifada, great questions whether Mohamed al Doura could have been shot by Israeli forces, whether he was shot at all.

In 2006 a report from Gaza about a family of eight Palestinians killed supposedly by Israeli tank fire. It turned out upon further investigation that they were killed by a Hamas mine, and even in 2012, during the latest fighting in Gaza, a picture of a Palestinian man holding the body of his son purportedly killed by Israeli planes, it was on the front page of the “Washington Post.” It turns out that that picture was staged as well. So Israel — it doesn’t apologize. It investigates very carefully. 

BLITZER: They are two boys. Two teenage boys are dead. 

OREN: Indeed. We don’t know that for certain. The pictures are very disturbing. But–

BLITZER: You don’t know these two boys are dead? 

OREN: We don’t know anything right now. These pictures were taken four days ago. They were released only in the last 24 hours. There were two hours of film that were taken, only two minutes were released of these films. The many, many inconsistencies, you see two young people who were supposedly shot, one to the chest, one through the back but they both fall in the same way. They fall forward which is inconsistent with what we know about combat deaths….

BLITZER: So you hear those reports, very disturbing information. But what I hear you suggesting, it’s possible you think that this whole thing was staged? Is that what you’re suggesting? 

OREN: We don’t know. We don’t know. And the Israeli military has a way of investigating this thing. If they can get the bullet [shown by Ivan Watson in his report] they can determine whether that bullet came from an Israeli weapon. It can actually determine what weapon it came from. And it can track — even they know what weapons are fired, live ammunition…

If clearly if they [the Israeli soldiers] were not imminent and present danger, and it turns out that live fire was used then soldiers will be held accountable for that put on trial. But again looking at those pictures and Israeli investigators will look at them very closely, again, the way the bodies fall, the fact that there’s no blood, someone who was hit in the back and a bullet has an exit wound, there is a tremendous amount of bleeding. There’s no bleeding in the picture. There are many, many inconsistencies. 

You see a Palestinian young man who’s supposedly throwing a rock at Israeli forces. You’re told that that’s the same Palestinian young men. And later he’s wearing different clothes, Wolf. You’ve got to ask some very serious questions. 

BLITZER: All right. 

OREN: I’ve had a lot of experience with this. 

William McGowan predicted these problems when CNN hired Oren.

66 Responses

  1. seafoid
    May 27, 2014, 12:16 pm

    I guess those 3 Jews who were allegedly shot and killed in Brussels last week are still alive then too.

    • eljay
      May 27, 2014, 12:45 pm

      >> I guess those 3 Jews who were allegedly shot and killed in Brussels last week are still alive then too.

      I really don’t mean this to sound patronizing but, please, don’t play that Zio-supremacist hate game. You’re better than that.

      • eljay
        May 27, 2014, 12:47 pm

        >> OREN: I’ve had a lot of experience with this.

        With being a Zio-supremacist asshole? I bet you have, Mr. Oren. I bet you have.

      • seafoid
        May 27, 2014, 2:26 pm

        We are supposed to be shocked when Coke is killed and take it for granted that all deaths of Pepsi are staged to incite hatred of Coke.
        It’s all a big bot pantomime.

        Same with bringing the pope to that terror memorial. Why don’t the Palestinians have a monument to Jewish terror ? Because they don’t play the game.

        Even in death, chosen is chosen. “Dead Coke” is far more emotionally loaded than “dead Pepsi”.

      • eljay
        May 27, 2014, 3:15 pm

        >> We are supposed to be shocked when Coke is killed and take it for granted that all deaths of Pepsi are staged to incite hatred of Coke.

        In the minds of Zio-supremacists, that’s how it seems to work.

        >> It’s all a big bot pantomime.

        It is. And it’s hateful and immoral, just like Zio-supremacists are.

      • yesspam
        May 28, 2014, 9:16 am

        I really don’t mean this to sound patronizing

        You failed.

      • eljay
        May 28, 2014, 9:48 am

        >> You failed.

        Coming from you, that means absolutely nothing.

        If seafoid – to whom my comment was directed – tells me I failed, that will mean something and I will apologize to him.

    • Annie Robbins
      May 27, 2014, 1:16 pm

      speaking of the people killed in brussels, i read this morning a report it may not have been a hate crime but instead a targeted killing because of their jobs.

      link to haaretz.com

      Both were …. were employed separately by government bodies.
      …Emanuel Riva came to Nativ, the liaison office for Jews from the former Soviet Union, from the Finance Ministry, where he met members of the security and intelligence community and the foreign service, and was in contact with senior government officials. Afterward, Mira was also hired by a government agency. There, and also when she was stationed at one of the agency’s missions in Europe,

      so, if they were killed because they were spies, it’s not (by definition) a ‘hate crime’.

      link to richardsilverstein.com

      An Israeli source confirms a rumor that has circulated in Israeli media circles, that one of the Israelis murdered at the Jewish museum in Brussels worked for the Mossad.

      hmmm

      • Ellen
        May 27, 2014, 1:56 pm

        Hellooooo, both of the Rivas’s worked in Berlin as Israeli Diplomats.

        link to israel-entdecken.de

        All diplomats — especially Israeli– are part of the security and spy operations. Berlin is a choice mission. They were there since 2007 and not exactly low level clerks.

        They were surely not tourist in Brussels. (Who goes from Berlin to Brussels for tourism?)

      • jon s
        May 27, 2014, 4:05 pm

        According to the reports here the Riva’s posting in Berlin ended two years ago, and they had been living in Tel Aviv. They were on an 18th anniversary vacation , so they were tourists.
        In any case , the possibility that they were specifically targetted should be looked into. And let’s not forget that there were two other victims.

      • Woody Tanaka
        May 27, 2014, 4:46 pm

        “And let’s not forget that there were two other victims”

        Better check with Oren and Blitzer to see if ANY of these people are actually dead or whether it’s all playacting…

      • Ellen
        May 27, 2014, 5:00 pm

        Jon, if that is so, it means the web site for the Israeli Embassy in Berlin has not been updated for two years. Do you think that is likely?

        They are still named as diplomats there. See link above.

        Most visitors of the Museum in Brussels are not Jewish. While the museum itself could be symbolic target for a nutcase, in this case two Jewish visitors who happened to work for the Israeli diplomatic corp and were from the former Soviet Union, were murdered. After they were shot, the assassin then went into the museum and shot two witnesses.

        Could you link to the reports you cite?

      • Annie Robbins
        May 27, 2014, 10:26 pm

        i read on reuters she used to work for the PM.

      • Daniel Rich
        May 27, 2014, 5:26 pm

        @ Ellen,

        Q: (Who goes from Berlin to Brussels for tourism?)

        R: Brussels is a drab city, but it’s the headquarters of…?

      • RoHa
        May 27, 2014, 7:41 pm

        R: Brussels is a drab city, but it’s the headquarters of…?

        Some really great beer.

      • just
        May 27, 2014, 5:10 pm

        “so, if they were killed because they were spies, it’s not (by definition) a ‘hate crime’.”

        hmmmm, indeed. Will Israel tell the truth? They will, won’t they???

        All I know is when I saw the video, the shooter looked quite calm/composed.
        Not like an emotional wreck/nutcase.

      • Daniel Rich
        May 27, 2014, 5:32 pm

        @ Annie Robbins,

        A bit of a sidestep, but do you know why Elliot Rodger’s killing of 6 innocent people is not labeled a hate crime against Caucasians?

        The cops are to blame

        Movies are to blame

        … but… is that actually fair?

      • just
        May 27, 2014, 6:17 pm

        Mass shootings should be called what they are — terrorist murders. You know, terrorists– we throw around that word so glibly when it refers to ‘others’… So were the actions of the IOF last week and pretty much daily…. terrorism.

        Lack of/ stigma of mental health care should be called what it is– appalling, negligent, and discriminatory.

      • RoHa
        May 27, 2014, 7:37 pm

        “Mass shootings should be called what they are — terrorist murders.”

        Depends on the motive. Terrorism is an attempt to frighten people into acceding to your demands. But when I go out and shoot a bunch of people it’s because I want them dead. I’m not trying to scare anyone else.

      • pjdude
        May 29, 2014, 2:47 am

        Not really terrorism isn’t about killing it’s about fear. Just because a bunch of people died doesn’t make it terrorism

      • Annie Robbins
        May 27, 2014, 10:24 pm

        do you know why Elliot Rodger’s killing of 6 innocent people is not labeled a hate crime against Caucasians?

        considering 3 of the people he slaughtered were asians i don’t think the target was white people. my first thought was ‘if he were muslim the islamophobes would be all over this and it would be called terrorism’.

      • Daniel Rich
        May 28, 2014, 12:56 am

        @ Annie Robbins,

        still off topic.

        Google yanked the video, so I have no reference [at the moment], but didn’t he specifically mention blond women that shut him out?

        Would it be fair to assume that it’s ‘easier’ to shoot and kill people you know [or who trust you] and random individuals, than enter a NRA meeting and try to pull of the same?

        Regardless, I feel sorry for all the victims [including Elliot - he clearly had fallen victim to whatever happened in/to his mind/brain]

      • Annie Robbins
        May 28, 2014, 1:43 am

        daniel, his primary target was women. it was a misogynistic-centric crime. yes, he addressed blond women, but more than that. all, any women really. but he was a rampant racist too. this is from his 100-plus page manifesto:

        link to abclocal.go.com (pdf)

        How could an inferior, ugly black boy be able to get a white girl and not me? I am beautiful, and I am half white myself. I am descended from British aristocracy. He is descended from slaves. I deserve it more. I tried not to believe his foul words, but they were already said, and it was hard to erase from my mind. If this is actually true, if this ugly black filth was able to have sex with a blonde white girl at the age of thirteen while I’ve had to suffer virginity all my life, then this just proves how ridiculous the female gender is. They would give themselves to this filthy scum, but they reject ME? The injustice!

        he was after males who had been adored and admired by women too. it was not a hate crime against Caucasians.

      • Basilio
        May 27, 2014, 10:39 pm

        Are you solid? Elliot Rodgers doesn’t look either black or Hispanic. He’s a Caucasian from England. If you want to say he’s Jewish and Jews are not Caucasian, then you’re being ridiculous. Caucasians are not only from Nordic countries.

    • Kathleen
      May 27, 2014, 2:56 pm

      ouch…hey those uncertainties do not go both ways when it comes to Oren

  2. Woody Tanaka
    May 27, 2014, 12:22 pm

    This is disgusting, of course, but typical. The Zionists are in charge at CNN, so it spews pro-Israelis spin when it can’t crush things like Ivan Watson’s story.

    • seafoid
      May 27, 2014, 3:25 pm

      It’s appalling. Imagine using that approach with Latinos . Yeah Wolf, the pictures are fake and we have seen this so often with so called dead Mexicans.

  3. Annie Robbins
    May 27, 2014, 12:26 pm

    this is outrageous. it’s just appalling. at a minimum one might think cnn has journalists able to confirm the death of the boys!

  4. Kay24
    May 27, 2014, 12:41 pm

    I have watched Blitzer in action. I have seen him interview Israeli officials, and give them free passes to say whatever they want, even lie like Oren did, and smoothly let them off scot free.
    These are excerpts from Blitzer wikipedia bio. No one can read that information and NOT realize where his loyalties and priorities are. He is one of the zionist minions that infest our media, and keep spewing Israeli propaganda. They are doing the American people the greatest injustice, by preventing the truth from coming out.
    “Washington and Jerusalem[edit]
    Blitzer began his career in journalism in the early 1970s in the Tel Aviv bureau of the Reuters news agency. In 1973 he caught the eye ofJerusalem Post editor Ari Rath, who hired Blitzer as a Washington correspondent for the English language Israeli newspaper. Blitzer remained with the Jerusalem Post until 1990, covering both American politics and developments in the Middle East.[11]

    In the mid-1970s, Blitzer also contributed to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) as the editor of their monthly publication, the Near East Report.[12][13] While at AIPAC, Blitzer’s writing focused on Middle East affairs as they relate to United States foreign policy.

    Fluent in Hebrew, in this period Blitzer also published articles for several Israeli-based newspapers. Under the name Zev Blitzer, he wrote for Al HaMishmar; using the name Zev Barak, he had work published in Yedioth Ahronoth.[10]

    In 1985, Blitzer published his first book, Between Washington and Jerusalem: A Reporter’s Notebook (Oxford University Press, 1985). The text outlined his personal development as a reporter, and the relations between the United States and Israel.

    Jonathan Pollard[edit]
    In 1986, he became known for his coverage of the arrest and trial of Jonathan Pollard, an American Jew who was charged with spying for Israel.[11] Blitzer was the first journalist to interview Pollard, and he would later write a book about the Pollard Affair titled Territory of Lies.[14] In the book, Blitzer writes that Pollard contacted him because he had been reading Blitzer’s byline for years, and because Blitzer “had apparently impressed him as someone who was sympathetic”.[15] Pollard also hoped that Blitzer would help him “reach the people of Israel, as well as the American Jewish community.”[16]

    Blitzer’s interview with Pollard was controversial in the context of the legal action against him, as it was construed by some media voices as a possible violation of the terms of Pollard’s plea deal, which forbade media contact. Blitzer’s subsequent book about the affair was included in The New York Times list of “Notable Books of the Year” for 1989.[17] In its review, the Times praised the book as “lucid and highly readable” and called Blitzer’s judgment of Israeli officials “harsh but fair”.[18]

    A review in The New York Review of Books was more critical, prompting a letter from Blitzer accusing the reviewer of making several inaccurate statements. Reviewer Robert I. Friedman responded to Blitzer’s criticism by characterizing Territory of Lies as “a slick piece of damage control that would make [Blitzer's] former employers at AIPAC (not to mention Israel’s Defense Ministry) proud.”[19]”

    link to en.wikipedia.org

    CNN should be ashamed to have this biased reporter represent them, when his agenda is very clear.

  5. LanceThruster
    May 27, 2014, 12:44 pm

    CNN’s “Go Spin Zone.”

    The vassal network of the vassal state.

  6. amigo
    May 27, 2014, 12:46 pm

    “OREN: We don’t know anything right now.”

    We need time to get all OUR facts out there.As you know Wolf, that is why I am playing my part in making THE facts fade into the background and in time our righteousness will overcome these vile assertions and slanderous accusations against our beloved most moral and gentle brave soldiers.

    Now back to the Anti semites who murdered Jews in Belgium.

    Wolf–yes Michael , we are the victims and we at CNN are in your corner all the way.

  7. Kay24
    May 27, 2014, 1:09 pm

    “Wolf. You’ve got to ask some very serious questions.

    BLITZER: All right.

    OREN: I’ve had a lot of experience with this. ”

    Yeah really? The wolf man should have said, CNN needs to ask some very serious questions from both sides, especially the side that is accused of killing these kids, after all CNN did have coverage of it, and their cameraman did capture the IDF shooting at the kids. The wolf man seems anxious to please his zionist bosses.

    Oren has a LOT of experience in lying all right.

  8. eGuard
    May 27, 2014, 1:49 pm

    From the transcript:

    OREN: Indeed. We don’t know that for certain.
    OREN: We don’t know anything right now.
    OREN: We don’t know. We don’t know.

    There’s four moments Blitzer should have said: Well, then shut up and go away.

    • seafoid
      May 27, 2014, 4:40 pm

      Blitzer isn’t going to do that. No major American network is going to grant the Palestinians humanity or basic dignity. There is no other way to keep the status quo going than to deny them these.

      Imagine a high profile rape case and someone on CNN saying she’s faked it, look at the state of that dress, it’s the wrong angle.

    • just
      May 27, 2014, 6:31 pm

      Whoa– weren’t there hasbarists all over the place saying that it took days to get the “fake” video up? So here we have Oren stating numerous times (days later) that “we don’t know”!

      Liar, liar, liar. Like they didn’t have their own video showing the murders….

  9. eGuard
    May 27, 2014, 2:17 pm

    From the transcript: MICHAEL OREN

    Israel has had a lot of experience with pictures like this going back to 2000. Remember the Mohamed al Doura case which helped trigger the second Intefada, great questions whether Mohamed al Doura could have been shot by Israeli forces, whether he [Mohamed al Doura] was shot at all.

    Sure. Actually, I saw Mohamed al Doura yesterday working the counter right where Elvis payed his groceries.

    In 2006 a report from Gaza about a family of eight Palestinians killed supposedly by Israeli tank fire. It turned out upon further investigation that they were killed by a Hamas mine,

    Well, it was the Oren’s own IDF that concluded the “Hamas mine” theory. The 8 Israeli shells that were fired must have missed this target. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_beach_explosion_(2006)

    and even in 2012, [...] a picture of a Palestinian man holding the body of his son purportedly killed by Israeli planes, it was on the front page of the “Washington Post.” It turns out that that picture was staged as well (As well as what? eG).

    Really, Oren, that child was dead. So were 32 other children, all killed by Israel. Says that same report you misquote.

    Oren is a liar, a sick, and a CNN analyst. CNN/Blitzer are given this man way too much oxygen. On the other hand, if Oren can bring dead people back to life, Palestinians being his specialty, he should do more with that.

  10. Citizen
    May 27, 2014, 2:53 pm

    Yeah, Blitzer is a news hack for Israel. Thanks for the additional documentation for that, folks. Makes one want to look into how CNN founder was erased from that job.

    Other breaking news: What ever happened to Hagel, who once thought there was a difference between US interests and Israel’s? Recall when Hagel was asked by Linsay Grahm, ” Name one congress person who is afraid of the Jewish Lobby?” Hagel, you will recall, didn’t answer, although he should have said ” You and your 39 partners.” Well, here’s an update on Hagel, a recent interview with Charlie Rose: link to defense.gov
    Tracking though it, you will see that Hagel has totally bought the notion the US exists to protect Israel from it’s worst paranoia. I hope he’s happy with himself. I once admired him. Why must it always be this way?

  11. Hostage
    May 27, 2014, 2:55 pm

    William McGowan predicted these problems when CNN hired Oren.

    From the McGowan piece Oren:
    * has been an official Israeli apologist for what are credibly alleged to be Israeli war crimes— in Lebanon in 2006 and in Gaza in 2008—war crimes that could be prosecuted if the US didn’t use its UN veto to shield Israel.
    * has near-delusional ideas on the “shared values” underpinning the US-Israeli “special relationship,” seeing Israel, as one of Oren’s critics put it as a “tiny America”
    * is in complete denial about Israeli government interference in American politics, as per Netanyahu’s efforts on behalf of Republican Mitt Romney in the 2012 presidential elections
    * likes censorship just a little too much for someone who will be working in a news organization dedicated to free speech, condemning the Goldstone Report on Israeli war crimes during its 2008 Gaza offensive as worse than Holocaust denial and threats from Iran, and calling for US Congressional action against the American Studies Association’s academic boycott against Israel on grounds that the boycott discriminates against Jews.

    Now ask yourself why California was allowed to use a public meeting law to prosecute students who objected to Oren being given a taxpayer subsidized platform to engage in those activities on behalf of Israel as part of a grassroots political propaganda campaign? Have the Jewish people annexed Irvine or what?

  12. atime forpeace
    May 27, 2014, 4:19 pm

    This is Moral Normcore: Keeping your mouth shut and your head down in the face of what you and most everyone else would consider morally wrong. Silently acquiescing to—and thus accepting—something which you know to be wrong or in fact evil, all for the sake of comforming, and not rocking the boat.

    link to gonzalolira.blogspot.com

  13. just
    May 27, 2014, 5:04 pm

    Lemmeseehere: CNN went obsessive bonkers about the lost Malaysian flight– non stop, wall to wall ‘coverage’ in what appeared to be an effort to obscure real news elsewhere. (Perhaps they were wishing for “Muslim terrorists” to have done the ‘dirty deed’.)

    Ivan Watson and Kareem Khadder give the world a real horror story, and Blitzer allows Oren to LIE– in fact, encourages it………..participates in it.

    If people didn’t believe that CNN is a corporate propaganda outfit that promotes Israel and little else except to point out Israel’s (and “Western enemies”), then those people have no excuse now.

  14. Kay24
    May 27, 2014, 5:43 pm

    In April 2012 60 Minutes (CBS) had major problems with the Israeli Ambassador, Michael Oren (no surprise), when they wanted to run a story about Christians treated badly by Israel. Here is the article, but note the youtube video seems disabled.

    link to huffingtonpost.com

    • Hostage
      May 27, 2014, 7:08 pm

      Here is the article, but note the youtube video seems disabled.

      It’s a CBS video that’s working on my laptop.

      • Kay24
        May 27, 2014, 7:44 pm

        Thanks, I clicked on it, and it played.

  15. maz
    May 27, 2014, 5:55 pm

    “They fall forward which is inconsistent with what we know about combat deaths….”

    Wow, so engaging children is considered to be engaged in combat

    • just
      May 27, 2014, 7:20 pm

      Nah. He just couldn’t bring himself to say any truth. It was assassination/slaughter.

      Or, akin to shooting fish in a barrel. Definitely not ‘combat’. In combat, both sides are armed.

  16. Citizen
    May 27, 2014, 8:00 pm

    Well, yes, those Palestinian kiss do throw stones. What’a an IDF guy to do, armed only with body armor and his M-16 gift from USA?

  17. Sycamores
    May 27, 2014, 8:50 pm

    oren says:

    …..They fall forward which is inconsistent with what we know about combat deaths….

    oren is trying to sell us the knockdown power of the gun myth

    link to youtube.com watch this video an AR-15 is used which the civilian version of the M-16 the bullet goes right trought the target without knocking it over

    or

    HOW MANY OF THESE FORCE MYTHS DO YOU BELIEVE?
    from forge science news

    THE DEMONSTRATIVE BULLET FALLACY.

    In reality, as an FBI report on the subject put it, “A bullet simply cannot knock a man down. If it had the energy to do so, then equal energy would be applied against the shooter and he too would be knocked down. This is simple physics, and has been known for hundreds of years.”

    link to forcesciencenews.com

    or

    Ballistics & Forensic Experts on the JFK Head Shot link to mcadams.posc.mu.edu

    Animals are used for — goats are the experimental animal of choice, and also there is less public empathy with a goat than there is with other types of experimental animals. And you need something fairly large approaching a human. Goats have been used for years. And in the course of those studies one thing we had noted — people say a gun has great knockdown power. So we tried to see which weapons had the best knockdown power. So in examining goats that were shot with various weapons we found out that no small arm as we know it, shoulder fired weapon, has knockdown power. As many goats fell toward the weapon as fell away, or fell straight down.

    i’m no expert on ballistics but neither is oren however with a few searches on the net i have proven this man a bare face liar.

    • Sycamores
      May 27, 2014, 9:02 pm

      oren is hoping that most Americans believe Hollywood threatrics over real science, which i find very insulting to say the least.

    • ritzl
      May 27, 2014, 10:22 pm

      Wow, Sycamores. Everybody should watch that YouTube vid.

      I put it into display form here. Same link. Thanks.

      Did you send it to CNN or Munayyer?

      Any real news org would have looked that up.

      As you say, Oren is a, intentional, blatant, and now demonstrated liar. Rebuttal doesn’t get any purer than this. He should be fired AND shunned.


      And the more of this Oren-like fiction comes to light on this issue, the more it reminds me of Star Trek: TOS. In this case, the line “You can’t change the laws of physics, Cap’n!”

      • Sycamores
        May 27, 2014, 11:49 pm

        hi Ritzl feel free to sent it in to CNN but as you said “Any real news org would have looked that up”.

        i believe Hostage has a good working knowledge of the M-16 and would be able to give us more infomation on the subject,

        after catching oren in one blatant lie everything else he says is now dubious. Peter Weiss is right this human being called oren is really disgusting and CNN is right down there with him.

        i could imagine what Dr McCoy would say to oren “Are you out of your vulcan mind?”

  18. Citizen
    May 27, 2014, 9:02 pm

    Why BDS is so important (& Blitzer is not): link to veteranstoday.com

  19. Kathleen
    May 28, 2014, 12:17 am

    Not a whisper out of Chris Matthews about the Pope’s visit

  20. Taxi
    May 28, 2014, 12:41 am

    Blitzer: We don’t see the shooter in the video.
    Oren: That’s because there are no idf snipers in the jewish holy land – never.
    Blitzer: But the blood on the boy’s shirt–
    Oren: ketchup mixed with water.
    Blitzer: Fair enough.
    Oren: Yeah Wolfie, I’ve seen this paliwood movie before – remember Mohamad Al-Durrah? He’s still alive and kicking in Gaza – you already know Hamas paid for his sex-change operation in San Paulo, so I should really say she’s alive and kicking in Gaza – married, no children (chuckles).
    Blitzer: Right, CNN first scooped this story – we got an award for it from the World Jewish Congress.
    Oren: I’m jealous.
    Blitzer: (chuckles coy) Only doing our job.
    Oren: And a job well done – always.
    Blitzer: My researchers right now are investigating the whereabouts of the two un-dead Palestinians.
    Oren: Look no further than the same San Paulo clinic.
    Blitzer: Damn, you israelis are smart!
    Oren: Yes we are, Wolfie, yes… we are.

    At this point, an anonymous viewer out there in the heartland shoots his TV screen to smithereens.

    • Annie Robbins
      May 28, 2014, 1:52 am

      you should consider taking up scriptwriting taxi, you’re excellent!

    • talknic
      May 28, 2014, 4:08 am

      Blitzer: We don’t see who fired the shots in the video.
      Oren: edited out. They’re very clever!
      Blitzer: The blood on people’s hands?
      Oren: edited in. They’re very clever!
      Blitzer: But the blood is in a different picture, different camera, different angle
      Oren: exactly, obviously not from the surveillance cameras. It’s been edited in. Faked. They’re clever!
      Blitzer: The father showed the damaged backpack
      Oren: yes. But he didn’t show the back pack before the shooting! They’re very clever, obviously edited in.
      Blitzer: The father was edited in or the back pack?
      Oren: both, edited in. As I said, they’re clever, even you couldn’t tell
      Blitzer: There was a bullet hole in the back pack.
      Oren: there’s nothing in a hole, it had to be edited out to be edited in and the footage is much clearer than the surveillance cameras anyone can see that!
      Blitzer: but it was shot later with a different camera.
      Oren: exactly, then edited in. They’re very clever
      Blitzer: There was no shooter in that footage either
      Oren: precisely, edited out of that footage too!
      Blitzer: No blood on the pavement
      Oren: precisely, if there had been blood, they’d have left it in
      Blitzer: Edited out?
      Oren: obviously. They’re not that clever!

  21. amigo
    May 28, 2014, 6:17 am

    Decisions decisions—“man (or woman) of the match”—Talknic or Taxi.

  22. NickJOCW
    May 28, 2014, 6:20 am

    I just posted a comment in The Guardian pointing to the possibility that the Brussels museum attack could have been a response to these teenagers’ deaths. Back like a ricochet comes an accusation of anti-Semitism. link to discussion.theguardian.com

    • just
      May 28, 2014, 7:09 am

      The response seems endemic, omnipresent, and conditioned– you are brave to have waded in there, Nick. Interesting that the responses you got did not seem to give a darn about the Palestinians who were assassinated…

      All this ‘certainty’ that these are antisemitic murders by ‘radicalised Muslims or neo- nazis’– I don’t get it. From the get-go, Netanyahu hollered ‘incitement, anti- Israel, hypocrisy’!!!

      Perhaps Mossad and Israel knows…and they’ll tell us the truth in short order. It’s also curious that even with the video, they haven’t apprehended the murderer… something’s fishy.

      • NickJOCW
        May 28, 2014, 8:05 am

        In the same issue The Guardian carries a report* that suggests the Belgian authorities suspect the attack may be other than the manifestation of the random anti-Semitism the rabbi author proposes it to be as he veers off piste onto his ‘straw man’ subject of circumcision! In fact the piece could serve as a text book illustration of that particular logical fallacy.

        * link to theguardian.com

      • just
        May 28, 2014, 8:17 am

        I found his article more than a little unhinged, as were some of the comments…

      • oldgeezer
        May 28, 2014, 8:04 pm

        I’m a fairly frequent poster at the guardian (3.7k, just checked) but I avoided that article as I think it was a minefield to start with as it mixes issues. The killings at the museum do indeed to be professional. He is in and out quite calmly. Professional doesn’t exclude any one, or group, as the professionalism would be a combination of intent, training and experience and motivation is not a part of that.

        To link that to circumcision issues is a stretch. Some people are against it on principle and some people see it as a wedge to hammer minorities. I am against it as anything but a necessary medical procedure when required as I think adoption of a religion or identity should be exercised as a personal choice when one is an adult. I do not think it should be stopped as it is something which is held dear to the values of many minorities. I’m an atheist and I hope it all goes away but at the very least I hope that within time religions stop inducting membership into the group before a child may choose. Funny aside… My wife was quite religious but never a member of any church. Technically I am as I was inducted at the age of 10 but I am an atheist in practice.

        I do believe there has been a rise in antisemitism, subjectively based on my news reading (totally anecdotal I agree) although I agree with the comments here pointing out the flaws in the ADL statistics.

        To some extent it could be caused by the actions of Israel but I would suggest/feel that is wrong as Jewish people are not responsible for the reprehensible actions of that state. Not wrong as in it’s not the cause but wrong as in Jewish people should not be blamed as a group.

        That would not explain the general rise in fear of the ‘other’…. Here’s my opinion and no I cannot back it up mathematically.

        In part the fear of the other arises from economic issues. If people have what they need they are happy and ignore these types of issues.

        The fear of the other – at the guardian and some other british sites – have been fanned by a combination of right wing bigots and pro Zionist zealots who have joined in the hate fest against Islam under the assumption that Muslims would be the targets of the hate. Judaism and Islam have much in common in terms of practices if not specific beliefs. The hatred has been fanned is directed at all not belonging directly to the national group and culture. They have helped create an us versus them mindset, and continue to do so, without considering that they are not consider part of ‘us’ (not saying people who think that are right). The law of unintended consequences. Or so ye sow so shall ye reap.

        Hatred only spawns more hatred.

  23. DICKERSON3870
    May 28, 2014, 2:47 pm

    RE: The many, many inconsistencies, you see two young people who were supposedly shot, one to the chest, one through the back but they both fall in the same way. They fall forward which is inconsistent with what we know about combat deaths….” ~ Oren

    MY COMMENT: It sounds as though Oren, drawing upon his past experience as a spokesman for the IDF, might be laying the groundwork for a new claim in case the ones Israel has floated thus far are conclusively debunked. He notes that both of the victims fell forward, and that this is inconsistent with what Israel knows about combat deaths. He later adds that there was also a lack blood.
    So, what might account for the fact that both victims fell forward and showed no signs of bleeding? Well, if the victims weren’t actually human, but were instead animatronics that were a bit heavier toward the front, that would explain it; especially when Pallywood is known to have very sophisticated, life-like animatronics.

    • Woody Tanaka
      May 28, 2014, 3:03 pm

      “inconsistent with what we know about combat deaths….” ~ Oren

      LMAO. I might as the Israelis about what happens when you drop a thousand pound bomb on a baby or what happens when you shoot an unarmed civilian in the back as they’re running for their lives from your pogrom. Beyond that, I doubt those barbarians have any particular knowledge.

      • tree
        May 28, 2014, 6:16 pm

        …what happens when you drop a thousand pound bomb on a baby..

        That great Israeli humanitarian, Lt. General Dan Halutz, has already answered that question. He feels a “slight bump” when the bomb is released. “A second later it’s gone, and that’s all. That is what I feel.”

      • oldgeezer
        May 28, 2014, 7:22 pm

        And another Palestinian joins the pink mist society.

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