The Pope in Palestine

Israel/Palestine
on 114 Comments
Pope Francis at the Separation Wall in Bethlehem. (Photo: Twitter)

Pope Francis at the Separation Wall in Bethlehem. (Photo: Twitter)


(Photo via BBC)

(Photo via BBC)

About Adam Horowitz

Adam Horowitz is Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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114 Responses

  1. just
    May 25, 2014, 9:05 am

    A prayer at the odious, illegal wall. So simple, so meaningful, so real.

    Netanyahu & Co. must be gnashing their teeth.

    • Shingo
      May 25, 2014, 9:07 am

      I agree,

      I am amazed they allowed it at all.

      • just
        May 25, 2014, 9:19 am

        You know Shingo, I think this is one human that not even the Israelis can control………. thank goodness.

      • Kay24
        May 25, 2014, 9:26 am

        There are no menacing lobbies to control the Vatican! I hope it always stays that way.

      • David Doppler
        May 25, 2014, 10:04 am

        No menacing lobbies in the Vatican? A year ago, Francis commented that there is a “gay lobby” in the Curia, whose practices left them exposed to blackmail by corrupting forces, leaks of which contributed to Pope Benedict’s decision to resign. http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2013/06/11/pope-francis-gay-lobby-exists-inside-vatican/

        But Francis is the guy to clean house. This is a powerful picture and it will be interesting to see in what news sites it will be shown.

        Also, I really enjoyed the exchange of gifts between Netanyahu and the Pope last year: from Netanyahu a copy of his father’s book about the Inquisition (subtext: here’s a book about evil in your Church directed against my people, you should read it and maybe learn something); and from Francis, a wood carving of St. Paul on the Road to Damascus (subtext: here’s a carving of a famous Jew who persecuted Christians before he saw the light, may you be inspired to cease your own persecution of minority religions in Israel).

        Their next meeting should be electric.

      • amigo
        May 25, 2014, 11:08 am

        “There are no menacing lobbies to control the Vatican! I hope it always stays that way.”Kay 24

        I trust the Pope brought along his own food or a taster.

      • Citizen
        May 25, 2014, 1:23 pm

        MJ Rosenberg has a new piece out, with a video clip link, saying AIPAC is now working on controlling the congress of cardinals same as it does the US federal congress.

      • justicewillprevail
        May 25, 2014, 10:04 am

        It was apparently unplanned, although the Pope was maybe aware that it wouldn’t be officially approved, and acted accordingly.

        http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/25/pope-francis-israeli-separation-wall-bethlehem

        Whatever, the symbolism is a wonderful and cutting response to the idolatry of the Western Wall. Hard to think of a more powerful image in that context.

      • just
        May 25, 2014, 10:08 am

        true.

      • Citizen
        May 25, 2014, 1:26 pm

        I read the Pope’s visit to the wall was not planned. Good for the Pope, good for us all! Pretty hard to vanish a Pope, even if you are Sheldon Adelson!

      • Blownaway
        May 25, 2014, 11:29 am

        From the guardian article. Israeli soldiers heads could be seen from the watch tower. He’s lucky he wasn’t shot for approaching the wall…

      • thetruthhurts
        May 25, 2014, 3:56 pm

        wow, i can’t believe it. cnn just showed the picture mondo had up a couple days ago of the anti-christian “jesus is a monkey” grafitti sprayed on the wall of the monastery.
        course it didn’t say what the grafitti said

      • Stephen Shenfield
        May 25, 2014, 2:21 pm

        Doesn’t praying at walls require a permit?

    • just
      May 25, 2014, 9:18 am

      ‘Pope we need some(one) to speak about justice’ is incredibly simple, clear, and true as well…

      We all know how the US has failed miserably at it.

      • American
        May 25, 2014, 12:21 pm

        ”If you want peace, work for justice”…….Pope Paul VI

        Justice is the only thing that brings resolution and ‘ lasting’ peace…and we all know what justice would be in Palestine.
        Anything else is bullshit.

  2. Shingo
    May 25, 2014, 9:06 am

    Wow, I like his style.

  3. Kay24
    May 25, 2014, 9:19 am

    This is really a powerful picture. The words “Free Palestine” in front of Pope Francis, a huge, significant message, to be seen around the world. The Pope was supposed to have mentioned the words “The State of Palestine”, which would have made Bibi and his zio band, annoyed, but helpless, if true. Unlike the US leaders (like John Kerry, and others), they cannot control the Pope, and what he does, or says. No evil lobbies in the Vatican!
    The Pope in his quiet way is sending a strong message, which will resound around the world, but heartless occupiers will be totally deaf and continue it’s crimes.

    • Ellen
      May 25, 2014, 9:39 am

      The Pope referenced the relations with the State of Palestine when he addressed Abbas.

      He reminds me of Pope John Paul who had a single message to the Polish workers movement “have no fear.”

      • Kay24
        May 25, 2014, 9:44 am

        Thanks for clearing that up. Whatever he says to the other side, he has already shown sympathy for the Palestinians, and the message is strong.

      • NickJOCW
        May 25, 2014, 9:57 am

        Ellen, It started before, the official Vatican itinerary for the visit contained this announcement
        COURTESY VISIT TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE STATE OF PALESTINE

      • just
        May 25, 2014, 10:03 am

        And he’s gone one more:

        “Giant Palestinian flags in red, white, green and black hanging alongside the Vatican’s yellow-and-white flags decorated the square.

        Earlier, he stopped to pray at the Israeli separation barrier surrounding the biblical West Bank town.

        “In this, the birthplace of the Prince of Peace, I wish to invite you, President Mahmoud Abbas, together with President Shimon Peres, to join me in heartfelt prayer to God for the gift of peace,” the Pope said at Mass.

        “I offer my home in the Vatican as a place for this encounter of prayer,” Francis said.”

        http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/pope-francis-invites-israeli-palestinian-presidents-vatican-n114036

    • thetruthhurts
      May 26, 2014, 11:29 am

      neti met with him at the vantican to try to pull some of his weel patented israeli truth-perverting bullshit thats hes so successfuly use on his american brainwashed idiots

  4. Shmuel
    May 25, 2014, 9:22 am

    Wait for the “balance”.

    • just
      May 25, 2014, 9:24 am

      Too late. This Pope is focused on the present, not on the past.

      • Shmuel
        May 25, 2014, 9:35 am

        Too late. This Pope is focused on the present, not on the past.

        I meant tomorrow.

      • just
        May 25, 2014, 9:40 am

        I thought so, Shmuel. I don’t think that it’ll be anything sensational or newsworthy. jmo. What I was saying is that this Pope seems very aware of the real facts ‘on the ground’ and is not afraid to act in that spirit.

        Though I must say, Netanyahu is already blaming the terrible killings in Belgium on ‘incitement’ against Israel…………

      • Kay24
        May 25, 2014, 9:48 am

        Typical Bibi action – he is already politicizing these horrible killings, and trying to get mileage out of it. Haaretz headlines:
        “Netanyahu blasts European ‘hypocrisy’ in not condemning Brussels attack
        But the prime minister’s statement is not quite accurate: European foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton was quick to condemn the attack on Saturday night.”

        It seems Bibi is sore the world condemns the killing of 2 Palestinian kids.

      • Shmuel
        May 25, 2014, 10:03 am

        What I was saying is that this Pope seems very aware of the real facts ‘on the ground’ and is not afraid to act in that spirit.

        Not on I/P, and I don’t expect that to change. The spirit of this trip is ecumenical and interfaith, and the Israel part of the visit is aimed at reassuring Israeli and Jewish leaders that his “thirdworldism” does not include the “Jewish” state. The attack in Belgium (followed by a less deadly attack in France) merely reinforces this position. Elections for European Parliament (today, in Italy) add a further dimension to the visit, which does not bode well for any dramatic deviations from mainstream European policies.

        No need to wait for tomorrow, by the way. The “balance” has already begun, with statements regarding the right of states to exist and an offer to perpetuate the peace farce by offering his “home” as a venue for a meeting between the figurehead leaders of Israel and Palestine (Peres and Abbas), without a word about the content of such “talks”.

      • NickJOCW
        May 25, 2014, 10:07 am

        Alas, Just, it could well be in response to the slaughter of the two youths at the Nakba Day protest. Even the DOS has demanded an explanation from Israel. It takes a saint to turn the other cheek and there are few of them around.

      • Ellen
        May 25, 2014, 10:07 am

        Yes, it was freaky that Netanyahu and Propagandists immediately came out calling the shootings in/around the Jewish Museum an “anti Semitic” attack, before any details are known.

        This is terribly risky ask it verges on the boy who cried wolf — if it proves not to be such, a possible real attack is not given the seriousness deserved.

        Or it takes on the smell of a false flag, diversion.

      • Hostage
        May 25, 2014, 11:29 am

        What I was saying is that this Pope seems very aware of the real facts ‘on the ground’ and is not afraid to act in that spirit.

        Not on I/P, and I don’t expect that to change.

        From “Vatican Says Pope Will Demand ‘Sovereign Palestine'”:

        The Vatican’s Secretary of State made a dramatic revelation ahead of Pope Francis’s visit to Israel next Sunday and Monday, declaring that the pope will talk about the “Palestinian people’s right to have a homeland, sovereign and independent.”

        Cardinal Pietro Parolin holds a role in the Vatican City State, located in the Italian capital of Rome, equivalent to that of a prime minister. Speaking to Vatican television on Thursday, he said “we know that the pope is going to a particularly suffering land,” reports AFP.

        “I really hope that the fruit will be to help politicians and all people of good will take courageous decisions on the path to peace,” Parolin stated.

        When asked what the pope particularly intends to talk about during the visit, Parolin revealed he would talk about “on the one hand, Israel’s right to exist in peace and security within internationally recognized boundaries.”

        On the other side, the pope would talk about “the Palestinian people’s right to have a homeland, sovereign and independent, the right to move around freely, the right to live in dignity,” according to Parolin.

        In fact, the Vatican recognized the “State of Palestine” in 2012 amid the United Nations (UN) vote to confer “Palestine” non-member observer state status, a status until then only held by the Vatican.

        http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/180928#.U4ILaJ9D5Rh

      • CloakAndDagger
        May 25, 2014, 2:17 pm

        @Hostage

        Reading the comments to the article you linked to (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/180928#.U4ILaJ9D5Rh) the anti-Christian/anti-Pope venom is palpable (several commenters refer to him as the “poop”).

        This is great! As more Christians realize that it isn’t just about the Muslims, the shades should fall from their eyes quicker. One interesting spin from a commenter was labeling Catholics as “fake Christians” and Evangelicals as “true Christians”. Ironic considering what Evangelicals describe as the end of the story for Jews!

      • Shmuel
        May 25, 2014, 5:34 pm

        When asked what the pope particularly intends to talk about during the visit, Parolin revealed he would talk about “on the one hand, Israel’s right to exist in peace and security within internationally recognized boundaries.”

        On the other side, the pope would talk about “the Palestinian people’s right to have a homeland, sovereign and independent, the right to move around freely, the right to live in dignity,” according to Parolin.

        In other words some sort of 2ss — international consensus to which even Netanyahu pays lip service.

        In fact, the Vatican recognized the “State of Palestine” in 2012

        Under Bergoglio’s predecessor. Nothing new or dramatic here.

    • ritzl
      May 25, 2014, 2:26 pm

      Agree Shmuel. This time, though, the balance may be more between the ordinary/rote/seen-it-all before-a-hundred-times salve for Israeli consumption, and something never seen before. That may strike new balance, or at least put a thumb on the scale for some period of time.

  5. Justpassingby
    May 25, 2014, 9:24 am

    Pathetic. He treats the occupier/occupied the same.

    • Citizen
      May 25, 2014, 1:35 pm

      @ Justpassingby

      All the Pope really needs to utter is, “Regarding the Shoah, and the innocent Palestinians, two wrongs don’t make a right (no matter what the US does not say, and no matter US, lone superpower use of its UN SC veto to immunize wrong-doing). As a former altar boy, raised in the Catholic faith, now agnostic, that’s what would penetrate Catholics the world over IMO.

  6. bilal a
    May 25, 2014, 9:26 am

    Expect some reaction from transnational zionism:

    A man who goes forth to take the life of another whom he does not know must believe one thing only – that by his act he will change the course of story.,
    Yitzhak Shamir

    But there is a benevolent universe, a higher moral order , a logic of creation, whatever secular similitude you can handle, that eventually defeats evil at its source.

  7. Gryfin
    May 25, 2014, 9:36 am

    I’m happy for the Palestinians. It’s a beautiful moment. Unfortunately, I can’t find it reported in the Israeli media.

    • just
      May 25, 2014, 10:11 am

      little wonder, Gryfin.

      I hope this ‘beautiful moment’ blossoms into something akin to justice. There are millions of his followers & respectful admirers watching closely, after all.

    • Shmuel
      May 25, 2014, 10:23 am

      Unfortunately, I can’t find it reported in the Israeli media.

      I checked 4 Israeli media sites: Haaretz, Ynet, NRG and Times of Israel. All report the story, and only NRG passed on the pic.

      • Gryfin
        May 26, 2014, 9:45 am

        That’s a welcome development. I’ll have to take your word for it because when I checked after your reply I was still unable to see any reference or picture in Haaretz or Ynet. Links are always a good practice.

      • Shmuel
        May 26, 2014, 12:24 pm

        I’ll have to take your word for it because when I checked after your reply I was still unable to see any reference or picture in Haaretz or Ynet. Links are always a good practice.

        Sorry. Was in a hurry, and 3 of the 4 reports were in Hebrew. The lead story at the Haaretz (Hebrew) site this morning (by Jack Khoury) used the wall picture again, and discussed the incident: http://www.haaretz.co.il/news/politics/.premium-1.2331588

  8. Ellen
    May 25, 2014, 9:45 am

    Knock me down. I never thought the Pope would say these words, take these steps.

    I wonder if Israel will punish the Catholic Church by taking more property and expanding the settlements where Christians live?

    Many Israelis believe the presence of Christians and Muslims defiles “the land of Israel.” Punishment of the Church will be met with base support.

    • Kay24
      May 25, 2014, 10:24 am

      Anything is possible. When it comes to Israel they are always punishing, over reacting, making enemies, stealing, violating international laws, and then whining they are picked on, or victims.

  9. alfa
    May 25, 2014, 10:21 am

    Right on Ellen, I hope the Zionists do their damndest, continuing the ‘delegitimize’ themselves. Keep digging Nutzi !

  10. Philip Weiss
    May 25, 2014, 10:50 am

    Incredible. Next to graffiti about the Warsaw Ghetto. I’ve felt that way myself often in visiting these Palestinian prisonlike conditions.

    • justicewillprevail
      May 25, 2014, 12:49 pm

      Can you imagine the reaction at Hasbara Central, as this picture wings its way around the world, on the front of thousands of newspapers? Ha.

    • biorabbi
      May 25, 2014, 1:51 pm

      Phil, did the Israelis murder ghettoize 400,000 Palestinians in the Bethlehem Ghetto(or any other ghetto) in a matter of months? The only linkage between the experiences of the Jews in world war two and the Palestinians under occupation both premises are based on virulent anti- Judaism. Your entire BDS approach, indeed, is Nazi-like in origin… singling out Jews among all nations for retribution. Maybe you should read Hilberg’s ‘The Destruction of European Jewry” before you ‘pontificate’ about the unique evil of Israel.

      • justicewillprevail
        May 25, 2014, 2:56 pm

        Maybe you should back off with the accusations, which have no foundation in anything said here. Your lurid imagination is fired by ropy old hasbara talking points – singling out, blah blah. You are one to talk about pontificating.

      • just
        May 25, 2014, 4:08 pm

        I find this a particularly ‘virulent’ and damnable comment, biorabbi.

      • Annie Robbins
        May 25, 2014, 4:12 pm

        did the Israelis murder ghettoize 400,000 Palestinians in the Bethlehem Ghetto(or any other ghetto) in a matter of months?

        iow, it’s the timeframe that sets the actions apart? or the numerical figure? because it is my understanding there are many more ‘ghettorized’ palestinians than 400,000.

        The only linkage between the experiences of the Jews in world war two and the Palestinians under occupation both premises are based on virulent anti- Judaism.

        iow, zionism is virulent anti- Judaism. that makes sense.

      • a blah chick
        May 25, 2014, 5:22 pm

        Why don’t you want Israel to be held responsible for its actions? Please provide an answer that does not engage in either misdirection, whatabouty or denial. Truly, I really would like to know the answer to this.

      • RoHa
        May 25, 2014, 7:35 pm

        “singling out Jews among all nations for retribution.”

        Jews are not a nation, and BDS is not retribution.

        ‘Maybe you should read Hilberg’s ‘The Destruction of European Jewry” before you ‘pontificate’ about the unique evil of Israel.’

        I don’t recall Phil saying Israel’s evil was unique. But it looks as though you are suggesting Israel’s crimes are not unique because they are in the same category as the crimes perpetrated against European Jews.

      • eljay
        May 25, 2014, 8:43 pm

        >> Your entire BDS approach, indeed, is Nazi-like in origin… singling out Jews among all nations for retribution.

        In light of all the real and harsh economic, military, political and/or financial retribution that countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran and Libya (for example and among all nations) have faced, it’s amusing to see a Zio-supremacist applying the term “Nazi-like” to a BDS campaign which other Zio-supremacists routinely laugh off as ineffective.

      • Citizen
        May 26, 2014, 12:52 am

        @ biorabbi
        Please reread your own comment.

      • Shingo
        May 26, 2014, 6:06 am

        Your entire BDS approach, indeed, is Nazi-like in origin

        Was BDS against apartheid South Africa Nazi-like in origin?

        Are sanctions against Iran Nazi-like in origin.

        Or are sanctions only Nazi-like in origin when applied to your cult?

      • Woody Tanaka
        May 26, 2014, 11:36 am

        “Phil, did the Israelis murder ghettoize 400,000 Palestinians in the Bethlehem Ghetto(or any other ghetto) in a matter of months?”

        So if the Nazis hadn’t killed the Jews, but merely held them in the ghetto, you wouldn’t consider that a crime against humanity?

        “The only linkage between the experiences of the Jews in world war two and the Palestinians under occupation both premises are based on virulent anti- Judaism. ”

        No, in both cases the powerful party forced the weaker party into ghettos on ethnic grounds. The “anti-Judaism” scam is nothing but the lie you tell yourself so that you can excuse evil.

        “Your entire BDS approach, indeed, is Nazi-like in origin… singling out Jews among all nations for retribution. ”

        Baloney. It’s singling out Israel among all states, because it, alone, is committing the crimes.

        “Maybe you should read Hilberg’s ‘The Destruction of European Jewry” before you ‘pontificate’ about the unique evil of Israel.”

        LMAO. That’s simply a racist appeal: Because something evil happened in Europe to people who were Jews, that means that other Jews, at another place and anther time must be excused when those Jews commit evil.

    • justicewillprevail
      May 25, 2014, 3:59 pm

      They are saying that the American media is cropping the picture, unlike the European media. How predictable.

    • yonah fredman
      May 25, 2014, 4:22 pm

      The walls around Bethlehem are bad news. The walls around the Warsaw Ghetto were bad news. Comparing bad news to bad news is something that humans do in order to try to make sense of the world around them. Historically the walls around Bethlehem and the walls around the Warsaw Ghetto were very different, but human reactions and historical comparisons are really not the same thing. But sometimes we wish to broadcast our reactions with many exclamation points. No one is stopping you or the graffiti writer or the pope.

      • Annie Robbins
        May 25, 2014, 5:23 pm

        yonah, just wanted you to know i did read your response to me here http://mondoweiss.net/2014/05/palestinians-reporter-flashes.html/comment-page-1#comment-667019 too late to comment on that thread but i didn’t find it very interesting and i wanted to thank you for taking the time to address your meaning further.

      • just
        May 25, 2014, 5:25 pm

        Thoughtful comment, yonah. Thanks.

      • Woody Tanaka
        May 26, 2014, 11:41 am

        “Historically the walls around Bethlehem and the walls around the Warsaw Ghetto were very different,”

        “Different” yes. “very different”?? No. They both stand for the same purpose: to unjustly segregate a people, based on ethnoreligious bigotry. Now, in Nazi Germany, the end goal was land theft and extermination, while it is unclear yet whether the Zionists will go that far. But they built it for land theft purposes, so we are well on our way to “very alike.”

  11. amigo
    May 25, 2014, 11:15 am

    I notice the Palestinians know how to spell “Pope ” correctly.

    There are several references to him on Haaretz in which the writers do not capitalize the Term.

    Go El Papa.

    • Shmuel
      May 25, 2014, 11:39 am

      There are several references to him on Haaretz in which the writers do not capitalize the Term.

      Why should they capitalise “the pope” (or the word “term” for that matter)? It is standard English practice not to capitalise job descriptions. The Guardian doesn’t capitalise “the pope” either.

      • NickJOCW
        May 25, 2014, 11:54 am

        The Guardian is scarcely and arbiter of grammar. A pope, the Pope. a king, the King, a president, the President. Simple.

      • Shmuel
        May 25, 2014, 12:11 pm

        The Guardian is scarcely and arbiter of grammar.

        How about the Oxford University Style Guide and the Chicago Manual of Style?

        “The Pope” is certainly used as well, but there’s absolutely nothing wrong with “the pope” (or “the queen” or “the president”).

      • Citizen
        May 25, 2014, 1:40 pm

        I was inferred to be a bigot here on MW because I did not capitalize “the pope.” By somebody who identified themselves as a “non-practicing Catholic,” whatever that means. My wonderful, good mother said the rosary every night during her entire adult life.

      • Ellen
        May 25, 2014, 2:29 pm

        Shmuel, when using the description of pope or a pope, it is not capitalized. When referring to Pope Francisco or THE Pope as an referring to Francisco (Francis) it is capitalized.

        Both Haaretz and the New York Times made this error repeatedly in their reporting. I wonder if it was intentional. Something this basic should have been caught.

      • Shmuel
        May 25, 2014, 3:02 pm

        Both Haaretz and the New York Times made this error repeatedly in their reporting.

        And The Economist and The Guardian. I don’t think it’s an error, and I certainly don’t think anything should be read into it.

        Oxford University Style Guide:
        [correct] The last pope, Pope John Paul II, was Polish. The current pope is German.
        [incorrect] The Pope is German.

        Chicago Manual of Style
        A. You may be happy to know that the University of Chicago Press considers almost all titles to be generic unless they are used as part of a name. Practically no one gets special treatment—neither the pope nor the president of the United States. But the recommendations in The Chicago Manual of Style apply for the most part to descriptive and analytical texts. Excess capitalization hinders an argument’s clarity.

      • Ecru
        May 26, 2014, 2:12 am

        @ Shmuel

        Don’t rely too much on style guides – English doesn’t have any equivalent to the French Academy. But in most usage that I’ve encountered :-

        pope – is a job description.
        Pope – is referring to a particular person who holds that position – with or without the actual papal name.

        president – job description
        President – rhubarb rhubarb.

        Ultimately, as it is with so much in English, it’s down to personal preference but the usual “recommendation” (one I give my students) is to err on the side of formality in these things and go with the capital. Not so much because it’s more “correct” but because you’re less likely to cause offence. People can be funny about things like this.

        And just so you know – the nickname of “The Guardian” in the UK is “The Grauniad” because of it’s atrocious history of typos and grammatical mistakes. NEVER use them as a touch stone to grammar or spelling. Unless of course you’re being ironic. ;)

      • amigo
        May 25, 2014, 11:57 am

        Why should they capitalise “the pope” (or the word “term” for that matter)? It is standard English practice not to capitalise job descriptions.Schmuel

        Is that the queen,s english or american english??.

      • Shmuel
        May 25, 2014, 12:03 pm

        Is that the queen,s english or american english??.

        Both.

      • Citizen
        May 25, 2014, 1:44 pm

        Somebody commented on this blog recently that speaking Brooklyn form of English was speaking good English, or Queen’s english, something like that, Hollywood films have always depicted speaking Brooklyn English as a flag of poor, uneducated, often bigoted, Americana (with spunk, go-getters, etc.)

      • yonah fredman
        May 25, 2014, 4:15 pm

        Brooklyn English is the Kings’ English as in Kings County which is the official name of the county that is Brooklyn. The comment was meant as humor.

      • just
        May 25, 2014, 5:33 pm

        It is humorous, yonah!

      • Ellen
        May 25, 2014, 5:37 pm

        Shmuel,

        Maybe nothing to read into it. But here is the AP style rule on “pope”

        Capitalize pope when used as a title before a name: Pope Benedict XVI, Pope Paul. Lowercase pope in all other uses. The pope is the bishop of Rome; the office was held by the Apostle Peter at his death.

        So capitalize before his Name and logically when referring to THE idividual as it is his title.

        The NYT own style guide is very close tooth AP style guide. Oxford not used.

        Your reference to the Chicago guide on general use of capitalization is irrelevant.

        Well….enough of discussing use of lower or upper, but the NYT mis-use was noted on the blogosphere of punctuation pendants.

      • Shmuel
        May 25, 2014, 6:01 pm

        Capitalize pope when used as a title before a name: Pope Benedict XVI, Pope Paul. Lowercase pope in all other uses (emphasis mine).

        Exactly. I’m afraid I don’t see your logical inference, although there are style guides (BBC, for example) that do specifically require the capitalisation of “the pope”. My point was that the general rule is that titles are not capitalised unless preceding a name (although there are those, such as the authors of the BBC guide, who consider “the Pope” one of a few exceptions to that rule). Not that respected English-language publications (Economist, Guardian, NYT) can’t be wrong about such things, but it would at least indicate that the upper case is not universally recognised as the “correct” form (even in the example you have given), meaning that reading things into such decisions is entirely unwarranted.

    • W.Jones
      May 25, 2014, 4:39 pm

      Correct: “You are here to see the priest?”

      Correct: “Yes, I am here to see Father.”

      Pope is from the word Papa or Father.

      “I saw Pope Francis”.

      “I saw the papal offices.”

      “You will meet his Holiness, the Pope of Rome.”

  12. iResistDe4iAm
    May 25, 2014, 12:02 pm

    The message is clear: FREE PALESTINE & Tear Down This Wall!

    https://twitter.com/iResistDe4iAm/status/470592776669642752/photo/1

    • amigo
      May 25, 2014, 2:49 pm

      Reply to Citizen.

      “I was inferred to be a bigot here on MW because I did not capitalize “the pope.” By somebody who identified themselves as a “non-practicing Catholic,” whatever that means. ” Citizen.

      Your post from other thread!.

      “What a joke. This pope, who does things to make you think he’s a man of the people, one who washes the feet of whores, etc…..meanwhile, his predecessor still roams the halls of the Vatican in pope robes. What are we to think of this Church? The mettle of this new pope will be shown shortly. Keep tabs on it! If there comes no blast into the breaking news about the plight of the Palestinians, and the US funding of this sordid tale, we can all conclude this new pope is a phony. The job of this pope is to show clearly what the US encourages by funding Israel nonstop, heavily. Wanna bet this new pope will fail?”Citizen

      To which I replied,

      “Citizen, I am am a non practicing Catholic but I resent your insults against the Pope.
      Btw, it is customary to use a capital P when writing his title.” Amigo.

      No one inferred you are a bigot.I said I resented your comments about the Pope.

      Your failure to not capitalize his title is your choice .I simply pointed out what I view as appropriate.

      I do not normally have any issue with your comments but those above struck me as , well –beyond the pale even for this non practicing Catholic.

      Peace.

      • Annie Robbins
        May 25, 2014, 4:20 pm

        amigo, i think the best way to post below a comment that doesn’t have a reply function is to scroll up to the last reply function above the comment. in that case it would have been here: http://mondoweiss.net/2014/05/the-pope-palestine.html/comment-page-1#comment-668713

        good luck in the future!

      • amigo
        May 25, 2014, 8:05 pm

        Thanks Annie but my posts are sometimes delayed by moderation process and my post landed far more south of where it would have been.

        I will take your advice for the future and just hope I can be spared the Moderator,s blessing sometime soon.

      • RoHa
        May 25, 2014, 8:35 pm

        One or two of the constructions above seem confusing. I hope everyone here is clear about the difference between “imply” and “infer”.

  13. James Canning
    May 25, 2014, 1:43 pm

    Bravo, Pope Francis. People in the US and EU need to see photos of the Apartheid Wall, as often as possible.

    Mahmoud Abbas and Shimon Peres apparently will meet with the Pope in Rome next month, to work on Israel/Palestine problem.

  14. seafoid
    May 25, 2014, 1:47 pm

    “Pope we need someone to speak about justice” under the Hebrew military instructions

    He’s very media savvy .
    Bots are flailing post 2SS collapse.

    The hasbara is banjaxed.

    Meanwhile 2 Palestinians killed last week and the bots deny they were involved.
    3 Jews killed in Belgium and nobody would dare say the deaths were staged. What would be the point?

    Lieberman’s spin .

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/.premium-1.592589

    “It’s the result on the ground of anti-Israel and anti-Semitic incitement, among other things in calls to boycott Israel and Israeli products, in anti-Israel activities in international forums and in an automatic, one-sided anti-Israel position,” Lieberman said.
    “So-called ‘pro-Palestinian’ activity, which as in those dark days calls for boycotting ‘Jewish goods’ and acts aggressively against the only democracy in the Middle East, is purely anti-Semitic activity and not part of legitimate political debate over the conflict over territory, the likes of which exist in many places in the world. The latest anti-Semitic incidents are a warning light to all those who, consciously or not, cooperate with this incitement when they rush, each time anew, to denounce Israel and to compare building a home for a Jewish family in the land of its ancestors to vicious, murderous terror activity,” Lieberman said.

    They are simply unable to defend their barbarism by calling criticism of it anti Semitic.

    • Mayhem
      May 26, 2014, 9:30 am

      3 Jews killed in Belgium and nobody would dare say the deaths were staged. What would be the point?

      @seafoid, don’t you realize how contemptuously and disgustingly you speak?
      How can you even contemplate a parallel between the hateful slaughter of innocent bystanders and the controversial deaths of Palestinian teenagers who were attacking Israel soldiers with all their might?
      How could you even consider exploiting the killing of these 4 victims of anti-semitic murder for political point scoring? Not one ounce of compassion in your soul.

      • Annie Robbins
        May 26, 2014, 4:52 pm

        Palestinian teenagers who were attacking Israel soldiers

        they were not attacking anyone when they were slaughtered.

        occupation soldiers are not the judge and jury over a person’s life, and neither are you. the soldiers were in no danger when they slaughtered the boys.

        the point, and i would agree completely, is that no one would think to suggest the murders in belgium were staged. whereas the ‘controversy’ that you speak of is no different that every other time a soldier slaughters an innocent palestinian, they lie.

        but as far as i am concerned there is no controversy. only an idiot would believe these ridiculous stories and excuses coming out of the mouths of zionist tools (politicians, military rulers, hasbrats on comment boards, etc). no controversy, the boys were slaughtered.

        imagine if i was to claim the murders in belgium were staged and therefore those killings were mired in controversy! ha! it could be done you know, but only a fool would believe it. NO.DIFFERENCE.

      • just
        May 26, 2014, 5:06 pm

        How can you exploit the anti- Palestinian murders of 2 young men who posed NO threat to any Israeli???

        It seems that it is you, ‘Mayhem’, who lacks any compassion or accountability– it must be tiring to carry all of that around. Try to unpack it and trade it in for some justice and truth.

      • seafoid
        May 26, 2014, 5:10 pm

        No difference, buddy

        Dead Jews , Dead Palestinian teenagers. Same pointless waste and anyone who thinks the dead Jews are somehow different is nuts.

      • Shingo
        May 26, 2014, 8:07 pm

        How can you even contemplate a parallel between the hateful slaughter of innocent bystanders and the controversial deaths of Palestinian teenagers who were attacking Israel soldiers with all their might?

        Occupation soldiers kill innocent bystanders all the time. And occupation itself is an act of violence, so there is no difference. You and your fellow cultists continue to insist that unless an occupied population submit to their oppressors, that they are deserving of being assaulted.

    • Kathleen
      May 26, 2014, 8:56 pm

      . Prayers for those killed in Belgium in more what sounds like hateful killings. But for Liebermann to blame those senseless killings on the fact that people around the world are calling for a boycott against Israeli products is absurd and twisted. These are cheap shots by Liebermann but not a surprise.

  15. Citizen
    May 25, 2014, 1:58 pm

    LIVE: Pope Francis in first visit to Israel–Note Bibi Netanyahu is treated at arms length, quite a statement in conjunction with his unplanned stop at the wall: http://www.haaretz.com/travel-in-israel/religion-relics/pope-holy-land-visit/1.592611

    Maybe Catholics in the USA will pay attention? Maybe…even Hagee cultists?

    • eljay
      May 25, 2014, 3:29 pm

      >> link to haaretz.com

      Francis delighted his hosts in the West Bank by referring directly to the “state of Palestine,” giving support for their bid for full statehood recognition in the face of a paralyzed peace process.
      . . .
      While the Palestinians needed to recognize Israel’s right to live peacefully “within internationally recognized border,” [Pope Francis] said, Israel also had to recognize the rights of the Palestinians to their own sovereign state.

      Two states – neither of them a supremacist “Jewish State” – and internationally-recognized borders. Nicely done.

    • ckg
      May 25, 2014, 5:30 pm

      @Citizen Hagee’s CUFI Facebook page posted on it. Check out the comments: “False prophet.” “Don’t like it at all. I even doubt this man is a christian.” “The Pope needs a history lesson. Bethlehem is not in Palestine.” etc.

      • ckg
        May 25, 2014, 5:58 pm

        The “false prophet” comment at CUFI is a reference to the book of Revelation. Google provides 126,000 results for: “Pope Francis” “false prophet”. This is a trending theme in end-times theology.

      • James Canning
        May 25, 2014, 7:09 pm

        John Hagee “doubts” that Pope Francis is a Christian? Splendid idiocy from the head of CUFI.

      • ckg
        May 25, 2014, 7:52 pm

        @James Canning: That was a Facebook comment, not written by Hagee or his staff, in the comment section on the page. I should have been more clear.

      • James Canning
        May 26, 2014, 1:31 pm

        Thanks, ckg. But I would not be surprised if Hagee has said or suggested something of the sort.

  16. Citizen
    May 25, 2014, 2:34 pm

    EWTN cable TV is showing Pope Francis in the Holy Land. Nothing political is being shown or discussed.

  17. Bandolero
    May 25, 2014, 3:29 pm

    This pic tweet of Pope Francis in Bethlehem got more than 1600 retweets so far:

    https://twitter.com/benabyad/status/470501898169360384/photo/1

    Guess why?

  18. Feathers
    May 25, 2014, 3:50 pm

    National Catholic Reporter carries the photo http://ncronline.org/news/global/pope-francis-preaches-peace-holy-land-invites-leaders-prayer

    National Catholic REGISTER, “a service of EWTN,” the hawkish, evangelical-Catholic media network started by Mother Angelica after she got a boost from Pat Robertson, does not carry this image, but does offer other coverage of Pope Francis’s activities in the region http://www.ncregister.com

  19. Elisabeth
    May 25, 2014, 6:04 pm

    I did not read all the comments, so I am sorry if someone already said something like this before me.

    But when I watched the 8 o’clock news in the Netherlands, there was about 1 minute attention to the visit of the Pope to the West Bank and Israel. (Remember we are a very secular country.)

    But what was broadcast was his prayer at the wall.

    My husband saw the symbolism of it at once. He said: “It is like his version of a prayer at the Western wall (Kotel)”.

    • just
      May 25, 2014, 6:19 pm

      It’s the prayer seen/heard ’round the world. For this simple act alone, I am grateful.

      • Elisabeth
        May 25, 2014, 6:33 pm

        I LOVE this man!
        It almost makes me feel a if the holy spirit was really around this time, when he was elected…

  20. concernedhuman
    May 25, 2014, 6:34 pm

    Why shouldn’t Pope endorse this video,a israeli way of teaching children about Jesus ?!!

  21. Daniel Rich
    May 25, 2014, 6:36 pm

    Would someone be kind enough and take time out of his/her busy schedule to properly translate קצת על הרבה – בְּמִדְבַּר.

    Thank you so much in advance.

    • Annie Robbins
      May 25, 2014, 7:09 pm

      daniel, i’d urge you to use google translate. as for the video of netanyahu at the link i believe he is delivering a eulogy to the Gush Emunim settlers (see the crowd) for uri elitzur http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=17707

      He was a prominent member of Gush Emunim, an organization that wanted to bolster Israel’s presence in Judea and Samaria, and soon rose to become the head of the Yesha Council, before entering politics. Despite an unsuccessful Knesset bid, he found a political home in the National Religious Party and later, in the now-defunct Morasha party. Elitzur also served as Prime Minster Benjamin Netanyahu’s bureau chief in his first term.

      Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu eulogized Elitzur at his funeral on Thursday in Ofra.

      “We are bidding farewell to a dear person who was both loved and admired,” Netanyahu said. “He was a man of truth who was never fearful of telling it outright. He planted his vine and fig tree here; he fought with courage. He had exceptional intellectual integrity, along with a special talent God endowed him with: the ability to write in a way only a handful of others could. You will be sorely missed. I loved you.”

      • just
        May 25, 2014, 7:16 pm

        hmm. Thanks Annie.

    • Shmuel
      May 26, 2014, 4:11 am

      Daniel,

      Here’s a quick translation of the important bits. It’s a description of a meeting between Netanyahu and a group of young Likud supporters, written by a Likud activist at Bar Ilan University, Akiva Lamm:

      “I want to ask you a question about the negotiations with the Palestinians”, I asked. “About what?”, the prime minister asked. I tried to repeat my question, but the audience had taken [Netanyahu’s remark] for an answer, and burst into laughter. Netanyahu had, once again, managed to fool the world at large: there are no negotiations. … “But, Mr. Prime Minister”, I said, looking straight at him. “The laughter of the people here proves that they don’t believe in this process, and I don’t think you do either. You have written a lot about how much you oppose the release of terrorists, about how freezing construction will destroy the settlements, but you still do both of these things. … Do you really want a Palestinian state?” …

      Netanyahu hasn’t changed. The focus, from his perspective was [always] Israel. “Not one Brick”, he said. “At the beginning of my second term as prime minister, I was summoned to Washington. They said to me: ‘Not one brick’ (regarding construction in Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem). They threatened me explicitly: ‘Not one brick’. The pressure exerted on me by the international community and the United States was huge. I don’t think anyone in Israel has withstood such pressure. And yet, after five years in office, we have built a little more than ‘one brick’. But the important thing is to do it smartly, quietly, without a lot of hype.” …

      “Do you think I couldn’t tell you that I’m a hero, that I’m strong, that I don’t care what the world says? … I could easily tell you that, but it would be a lie. Anyone who tells you such things is a populist who lacks leadership qualities and isn’t worthy of being prime minister. A leader must withstand international pressure by knowing how to manoeuvre.” …

      The truth is that he said similar things in 2001 [link in original], when he visited a bereaved family and, as a concerned citizen, explained the Hebron agreement, in which he had given up 2%. In the clip, he explains how he was forced to give up a little in order to hold onto the whole. Similarly, at this meeting with young [party supporters], he replied that he would rather give up a little in order to get most [of what he wants].

      • jon s
        May 26, 2014, 5:23 am

        Daniel,
        I still don’t understand your question about “flown a heavy”.
        Meanwhile replies have been closed on that thread.

  22. W.Jones
    May 26, 2014, 9:51 am

    The morning news was portraying the Pope saying “Never Again, Never Again” in his reference to the genocide of WWII, while the news avoided the fact that ethnic cleansing has actually been happening there since the Nakba.

  23. gazacalling
    May 26, 2014, 3:14 pm

    Wow.

  24. Kathleen
    May 26, 2014, 8:49 pm

    Was even on NPR this evening.

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