Conflicted coverage shows: ‘NYT’ is now disputed territory

Israel/Palestine

The Israel/Palestine conflict is the central issue in American public life today. The New York Times has five stories that touch on it in today’s paper.

–On the front page, a long piece about the Presbyterian divestment vote by Laurie Goodstein highlights the Presbyterians’ anguish over the measure, their seriousness, and the important role played by a small but growing organization per the Times, Jewish Voice for Peace, and specifically the interfaith prayers led by Rabbi Alissa Wise in favor of divestment. The established Jewish organizations’ threats to break off relations with the Presbys are lower in the story and the church leaders express a sophisticated understanding that they must risk the labeling and weather that storm in order to do something, anything about Palestinian human rights.

–Jodi Rudoren does a long profile from an illegal settlement in the West Bank of an American-Israeli mother whose son was killed by Palestinians during the Second Intifada. The piece is totally inside the American-Israeli Jewish experience, which is Rudoren’s stomping ground, the territory familiar to her, as she told Hadassah Magazine. The issue of the illegal settlement as a Palestinian grievance–Tekoa, the West Bank is the dateline– is never considered in the piece. The fact that Israel has killed three Palestinian youths in the last week while searching for the missing Israeli teens– who are widely believed to have been abducted — is not mentioned. What about those young men’s mothers?

–On the next page of the Times, A6, the Israeli killings of Palestinian youths are reported, along with the Israeli sweeps across the West Bank; but right under that is a story about Jews leaving France for Israel because of rising anti-Semitism in Europe. Not till the fourth paragraph do we learn that the number is small: 1407 out of 500,000 French Jews in the first three months of the year. Not till the fourth paragraph from the end of the story do we learn that economics as much as anti-Semitism is prompting the French Jews to leave: business opportunities in Israel. Should the piece have also discussed the great levels to which Jews have risen in French business and political life? We feel that the Times is proclaiming a molehill to be a mountain.

–In the arts section Anthony Tomassini, the classical music critic, says he is dismayed by the decision of the Metropolitan Opera, bowing to “intense pressure from some Jewish groups,” to cancel the broadcast of the opera The Death of Klinghoffer in October. Tomassini says that yes the work is controversial, but that’s “Fine.. let audiences grapple with the piece.” Abe Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League didn’t even see the opera before he twisted Met gm Peter Gelb’s arm to shut down the broadcast, we learn, and Tomassini also avers that the opera is better than John Adams’s other works, on Nixon and nuclear science. The piece does not mention an ad that appeared in yesterday’s Times from the Metropolitan stating the “alarming” news that its funding is now 48 percent reliant on donors as opposed to 34 percent ten years ago. The Met’s financial crisis and dependence on benefactors are obviously a factor in its censorship decision; Jews are an important factor in support for the arts in New York, and Zionism is an important factor inside Jewish life.

Overall, two steps forward, one or two back. The Times is disputed territory. The old guard is hanging on. But as Laurie Goodstein’s splendid coverage of the Presbyterians’ decision shows, the wave is moving in one direction, toward greater openness, in the American heartland and at our leading newspaper too..

 

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46 Responses

  1. just
    June 21, 2014, 12:07 pm

    Good article– thanks!

    Not entirely convinced that the NYT is “our leading newspaper” though.

  2. yonah fredman
    June 21, 2014, 12:27 pm

    The Israel/Palestine conflict is the central issue in American public life today. Nonsense. Unless you mean by today as in June 21, 2014. Unless you mean in today’s New York Times. Otherwise the central issue in American public life would be determined by a question or a set of questions asked by pollsters, not by one day’s issue of the NYT. I’d say the lackluster recovery of the economy and the decimation of the middle class is the central issue in American public life today. But there probably is no single central issue and it certainly is not something beyond America’s shores.

    • Justpassingby
      June 21, 2014, 1:08 pm

      yonah

      Read what he said, he didnt say it was the MOST or ONLY central issue, he just said it was a central issue which it obviously is.

    • Donald
      June 21, 2014, 1:27 pm

      “The Israel/Palestine conflict is the central issue in American public life today. Nonsense. ”

      Gotta agree. It’s important, and you can see it’s important by the way most politicians march in lockstep with AIPAC most of the time, but the central issue? No. Some of my liberal friends in real life are disgusted by Israel and the Lobby, but I’m a lot more interested in it than they are. On other liberal blogs I see much the same–quite a lot of cynicism about Israel and the support we give it when the issue comes up, but it’s not front and center with them.

      It should be seen as a more important issue for everyone and not just the Lobby, but it’s not going to be seen as more important than the economy, nor should it be.
      (Personally, I think climate change should be the top issue, but fat chance of that happening either.)

      • Stephen Shenfield
        June 21, 2014, 5:12 pm

        The competition between these issues is illusory. Weakening Zionism would help the fight against climate change in all sorts of ways. For instance, I recall reading that some Zionist organization decided to oppose the campaign to divest from hydrocarbon companies because they thought opposing all politically motivated divestment in principle was the best way to protect Israel from BDS. In other words, many Zionists are quite willing to sacrifice the whole planet in the short-term interest of their ‘Jewish state’ — not realizing, apparently, that Israel is on this planet and nowhere else.

      • Donald
        June 21, 2014, 7:44 pm

        “Weakening Zionism would help the fight against climate change in all sorts of ways.”

        Possibly you’re right. It hadn’t really occurred to me to think about it that way.

    • DaBakr
      June 21, 2014, 3:00 pm

      @yf
      it seems that you are the only critic of the mondoweiss ‘bubble’ effect allowed to freely express your views. you function as a type of ‘bobo doll’ (which is a compliment) that the regulars can tolerate as anytime my commentary strays from the extremely polite-it seems to get mysteriously ‘nixed’. such delicate sensitivities the moderators have. good luck to you. and of ‘course’ to the left-wing intellectual elites the nyt is ‘disputed’ territory. most of Americans and other readers barely give a hoot. I mean really-this is the crowd that thinks haaretz is the paper of record in Israel

      • amigo
        June 21, 2014, 3:33 pm

        “I mean really-this is the crowd that thinks haaretz is the paper of record in Israel” dabakr

        Geez dabakr. Everyone knows the J Post is the paper of record.It is the cauldron of truth and the birth place of Justice and equality for all it,s readers.

        The Hebrew version , that is.

        Don,t give up your day job .Levity is not your specialty.

      • just
        June 21, 2014, 3:41 pm

        There is, unfortunately, “no paper of record” in Israel. Usually, it’s just the SOS, but Haaretz at least allows some other voices from Israelis and others to be ‘heard’. Israel and Israelis appear to clamp down and punish dissident voices …. so does the US media when their minions stray from the narrative. That seems to be changing slowly (@ least in print) b/c of the internet and social media. Consumers of information tolerate much less bs because much more access to many outlets and sources is available 24/7.

        Imho, yonah seems to consider other points of view with consideration. You, not so much.

      • DaBakr
        June 21, 2014, 9:53 pm

        do you know how ‘famous’ Levy is in israel? he may be a pompous butt imo but he gets around. hardly ‘punished’

      • talknic
        June 21, 2014, 4:37 pm

        DaBakr “it seems that you are the only critic of the mondoweiss ‘bubble’ effect allowed to freely express your views”

        Twaddle. Posts are dis-allowed according to the policy.

        “anytime my commentary strays from the extremely polite-it seems to get mysteriously ‘nixed’”

        Why should we believe anything a proven cherry pickin’ liar says

        “I mean really-this is the crowd that thinks haaretz is the paper of record in Israel”

        Even Haaretz isn’t immune from the effects of ziocaine. It has numerous articles by supporters of Israel’s illegal activities in the Occupied Territories who never call the illegal settlements and illegal settlers ‘illegal’.

        At present it has numerous articles claiming ‘kidnapped’ when there has not been a shred of evidence there has actually been a kidnapping. It also dis-allows (publishes far less) comments on a completely arbitrary basis than MW or JPost. BTW Haaretz Israeli owner lives in territory never legally annexed to Israel.

      • DaBakr
        June 21, 2014, 9:55 pm

        okay-so i am arrogant. every time I get particularly snarky in a post-i think I get nixed. maybe i’m just a paranoid zionist. point taken. maybe i pressed delete instead of post? I don’t really have complaints about moderators here. annie is honest about her job as activist-not journalist which is an appreciated point.

      • DaBakr
        June 21, 2014, 10:47 pm

        you may claim I lied but I still claim that Zoabi knew exactly to what ‘democracy’ she was referring when she meant it should be used to take down the Zionist state. She may not believe there is a perfect democracy but she is an mk for frikking cripes sake. And-she gets international coverage because of it. I guess you think Israel is the dumbest ‘democracy’ in the world for having such self-destructive policy

        (p.s.-the whole story about two Palestinian soccer players being shot in the feet was bogus. They weren’t shot in the feet, Weren;t seriously injured and were doing something with either a fire-bomb or molotov. There are photos of them smiling in Jordanian hospital on their OWN facebook pages with wounds on lower legs but NO feet. And that is just one example of MW ‘cherry picking’.
        Annie claimed she would accept no facts from any ‘zionist’ source which left MW and Zirin as the two bogus sources while the haaretz/haas article vaccilated between Israeli/Palestinian accounts, then it rescinded IDF account, then it re-rescinded IDF which made it suspect. And you can claim I am lying here too but I would have no problem indicting any IDF border police if they indeed did just shoot two guys in feet. But it didn';t happen except in Palestinain PR world)

      • talknic
        June 22, 2014, 8:18 pm

        DaBakr “I still claim that Zoabi knew exactly to what ‘democracy’ she was referring when she meant it should be used to take down the Zionist state”

        Uh huh. So quote her you stupid stupid person. What you think and claim is YOU, not her.

        Your lies are well documented pal! Nothing you ever say can be believed without confirmation!

    • talknic
      June 21, 2014, 4:16 pm

      @ yonah fredman “Unless you mean by today as in June 21, 2014. Unless you mean in today’s New York Times. “

      See where it says “June 21, 2014” and the “New York Times” and “in today’s paper“? Ziocaine sends you brain dead and blind? WOW! Powerful stuff!

      The NY Times obviously considers the issue to be the most important issue today. Is there another issue in the NYT today with five stories dedicated to it!

      No wonder Israel has dug itself into a huge illegal ‘facts on the ground’ crap hole it can’t get afford to legally get out of without attempting to negotiate (blackmail) away Palestine’s legal rights. Illiteracy is so rampant amongst supporters for the illegal acquisition of non-Israeli territory they can’t even read or understand simple concepts like today or read a date! Let alone read and understand simple UNSC resolutions or the concept of what isn’t Israeli territory, simply isn’t Israeli territory.

      • DaBakr
        June 21, 2014, 9:57 pm

        the only reason, imo, the nyt publishes so much about the ‘conflict’ is because they are a dying paper (along with the other print rags) and they know what sells-like p.t.barnum (and that was the post I thought was nixed but probably wasn’t)

        Israeli(nee Jews) vs. Palestinian (nee Arabs)

        like Frazier vs. Ali

        Eagles vs. Dallas (?)

        Clarence Thomas vs Anita Hill*

        *(the biggest and most idiotic compromise appointment in history of modern US. This is my criticism of US since somebody claimed Zionist never criticize US. Arlen Spector ( and I met the man and he was a funny guy) should still be ashamed in his grave and as for Thomas? Nobody seems to want to talk about his oddness, inactivity and the whole thing. And I think Ruth B. Ginsberg should retire before Obama is out and unable to appoint a suitable replacement. Sandra Day O’Conner was fantastic
        and I think Scalia maybe corrupt. There is a devoted Zionists pov on US)

      • Talkback
        June 22, 2014, 4:28 am

        Say DaBakr,

        does your Jewish Junta still have a military censor? Can it still close newspapers based on occupation mandate emergency regulations which even Jews called Nazi-like when they were its target back in the 40s?

      • DaBakr
        June 22, 2014, 5:00 pm

        your babbling. say what? most nations have military censors, especially when nations declare war with them.

      • talknic
        June 22, 2014, 8:06 pm

        @ DaBakr “most nations have military censors, especially when nations declare war with them”

        Uh? No nation has ever declared war on Israel.

        AFAIK The last declaration of war ever tendered to the UNSC was the Arab declaration on the invasion of “Palestine” link to mfa.gov.il , to protect what remained of Palestine from Israel after Israel was declared independent of Palestine.

        Israel was responsible for starting the illegal link to mojolaw.com undeclared war in territories “outside the State of Israel” … “in Palestine” link to wp.me by not withdrawing all Jewish forces behind Israel’s borders of May 15th 1948! link to trumanlibrary.org

      • DaBakr
        June 22, 2014, 8:09 pm

        I also missed the bigoted and racist tone of your comment before. “jewish junta”? if your referring to IDF military censors there are plenty of non-Jews who work in the office.

  3. HPH
    June 21, 2014, 12:51 pm

    Yesterday Jodi Rudoren was the sole author of an article about the shooting of a Palestinian teenager during the search for the missing Israeli teenagers. The mother of the boy was interviewed in her home in Dura. This portion of the article was the heart of it. Thus at first I concluded that Ms. Rudoren has become more of a reporter in the sense of looking at both sides of an issue. However, at the end of the article I saw the credit to Said Ghazali for reporting from Dura. Now my opinion of Ms. Rudoren as a reporter has sunk back to its original level.

  4. HPH
    June 21, 2014, 1:15 pm

    Fred Mackey did a follow-up article about the killings of two Palestinian teenagers a few weeks ago (link to nytimes.com). He reports a Human Rights Watch interrogation of the owner of the business whose security cameras recorded the shootings. The man stated that he was threatened by the IDF and his security cameras were confiscated. An IDF spokesperson said that he was unaware of any claims by this man.

    • Bumblebye
      June 21, 2014, 3:27 pm

      link to hrw.org

      “(Jerusalem) – Israeli security forces ordered a Palestinian man to take down security cameras that captured the shooting deaths of two Palestinian boys in May, Human Rights Watch and Defense for Children International – Palestine said today. Footage recorded by cameras on the man’s building prompted an international outcry over the killings.

      Israeli military officers berated Fakher Zayed, 47, for sharing the security videos with human rights groups, claimed he had lied and fabricated evidence, and threatened to bring unspecified legal actions against him if he did not remove the security cameras, Zayed told Human Rights Watch and DCI-Palestine. A soldier threatened to “unleash dogs on my children,” he said.”

      Further:

      “Zayed and another witness who asked not to be identified out of fear for his security told Human Rights Watch and DCI-Palestine that at around 4:20 p.m. on June 17, four Israeli military vehicles with about two dozen soldiers came to Zayed’s carpentry shop, on the ground floor of his building in the West Bank Palestinian town of Beitunia, while he was out delivering wood to a customer. According to the other witness, an officer who identified himself as “Sabri” said that “if [Zayed] is not here in five minutes we are going to burn this carpentry shop down,” and ordered one of Zayed’s employees to call him. When Zayed arrived, Israeli forces confiscated his identification document, told him and his employees that he was not being arrested but taken for questioning, and drove him to the nearby Ofer military base.

      Zayed said:

      At Ofer I was taken into a room that had several captains. They told me that the video I gave to the press was fabricated, that everything I said and all my testimonies are a lie, that this is a serious violation of the law, and that I made the IDF look bad and caused a lot of problems. They told me the cameras need to be brought down within 24 hours. They were all speaking, and I had no chance to respond. There were so many threats. They said it as though they were going to turn the law against me. One of the captains told me: “We will crush you, according to the law.” There were many threats against my family. They told me that I was up against a very powerful force, and I am very small. One of them said, “We will squish you like a bug, you are nothing.” There were no direct violent threats, except when I left that room, one of the soldiers told me that they will unleash dogs on my children.

      At 5:45 p.m., Israeli forces drove Zayed back to his building, he said.”

      If the bu**ers can destroy the possibility of their crimes being recorded, then they have deniability and can pretend innocence.

  5. Balfour
    June 21, 2014, 1:24 pm

    “The Israel/Palestine conflict is the central issue in American public life today. The New York Times has five stories that touch on it in today’s paper.”

    News about the Presbyterian Divestment vote aside it is extraordinary that a cultural/political/ geographical population the approximate size of Haiti commands so much domestic and international media attention.

  6. amigo
    June 21, 2014, 1:25 pm

    Today the Knesset discussed a bill proposing the Annexation of New York.Israel,s security was the reason given by the bill,s sponsor.

    The New York times is an ivaluable cog in the Israeli security wheel.

    The bill is expected to pass without any opposition except from a couple of Arab members but who cares what they think quipped the bill,s sponsor.

  7. just
    June 21, 2014, 3:00 pm

    Cause and Effect: check it out, more @ the ToI link.

    “BETHLEHEM (Ma’an) — United Nations Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process, Robert Serry, on Friday expressed concern over Israeli arrest operations in the occupied West Bank, as a mass campaign to detain Palestinians entered its eighth day.

    “The Special Coordinator is deeply concerned by reports that Israeli security operations in the West Bank since the abduction of three Israeli students have resulted in over 300 Palestinians arrested, many injured, and three Palestinians killed, including one minor this morning.”

    Serry urged Israel for “restraint” and to carry out all security operations in compliance with international law and “respect for the lives, dignity and livelihoods of Palestinians.””

    link to maannews.net

    and:

    “Israel’s Foreign Minister Avigdor Liberman intends to kick out the UN’s top Jerusalem-based Middle East official for seeking to transfer tens of millions of dollars of funds to Hamas, Israeli television reported Saturday night.

    Liberman will seek the approval of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for the move to expel the UN’s Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process, Robert Serry, and have him declared persona non grata, Channel 2 said. The report added that Liberman would discuss the move, which could place Israel on a collision course with the world body, with officials at his ministry on Sunday. There was no immediate response from Serry, a Dutch diplomat who has held the post since 2007.”

    link to timesofisrael.com

    So now Israel wants to punish even those outside the OPT. What and who next?

  8. bilal a
    June 21, 2014, 7:56 pm

    How can someone work at the NYT and not understand its role, what business IT is in.

    The tragic occupation will simmer indefinitely as long as the Sunni Kingdoms are allied with Israel against Hamas and the MB. These are the same financial interests funding Gelb-AIG’s Greenberg’s CFR, Wapo, and the usual manufacturing consent suspects.

    But the real threat is not from human rights violations in Palestine ( they are far worse in China and Egypt ) but instead the impact of this transnational cabal’s
    behind the scene machinations in re-writing the pipeline reserve maps.

    Whose caliphate is this?

    Israel accepts first delivery of disputed Kurdish pipeline oil
    link to reuters.com

    [Royal ]Maurice R. Greenberg Center for Geoeconomic Studies [of BP-Shell-Aramco]

    Steven A. Tananbaum Senior Fellow for International Economics, Bernard L. Schwartz Senior Fellow, David M. Rubenstein Senior Fellow
    Benn Steil, “he was director of the International Economics Programme at the Royal Institute of International Affairs in London”
    link to cfr.org

    The NYT has always been a Euro petroleum cartel front, as is Israel.

    • Taxi
      June 22, 2014, 5:10 am

      The Iraqi kurds are playing it stupidly, as usual. If through thievery and violence they get a state linked to kurdish turkey/syria/iran, then they’re gonna be surrounded by enemies, just like israel is, and they’ll never live in peace – and funny enough, the Iraqi kurds are behaving just like israel does (tel aviv has been supporting them since the Iranians pulled out their support in the 80’s in an attempt to reach a compromise with Saddam): yeah just like zionist israel, Iraqi kurds are usurping what is not theirs (oil) and selling it to the legitimate owners’ enemies (just like israel stealing American secrets to sell to China and Russia).

      Iraqi oil belongs to all Iraqis and not just the kurds of Iraq. And this stupid, stupid deal will cost the kurds a great deal in blood, whether it gets paid today or tomorrow, it sure is coming. Instead of working towards democracy, equality and universal human rights for their country of Iraq, they’re conspiring with the enemy to divide the region up at the cost of possibly millions of civilian deaths – and this plan, even if it succeeds (which it won’t) will never give the kurds the peace they need – ever – yet they’re doing the deal – which is why I use the word ‘stupid’ to describe Iraqi Kurdish politics.

      The region needs LESS countries, not more unstable, new countries built on ethnicity or religion. Neither ethnicity nor religion is a reliable source of security or stability for a country: national identity through assimilation and equal rights for all is the only sure way forward. But I don’t expect the Iraqi Kurdish leaders to get this: not after foolishly following israel’s advise for three decades. The Iraqi kurds might as well call their country israkurd. And when israel is eventually in ruins, who’s skirt will the Iraqi Kurds hide behind?

      Contrast the Syrian kurds who were politically more astute and made beneficial deals with Bashar and identity themselves as Syrian kurds, not just as ‘kurds’ – they’re right now fighting ISIS and her evil sisters on Syrian soil – protecting BOTH their people AND their country’s sovereignty.

      • MRW
        June 22, 2014, 8:21 pm

        Astute.

  9. Mayhem
    June 21, 2014, 8:12 pm

    You guys are so keen to diminish the spectre of European anti-semitism because you don’t want to put your Muslim mates offside.
    You complain about what the NYT doesn’t say but you are far worse, covering up and lying about the imminent threats to European Jewry from a deadly cocktail of left wing Muslim inspired and traditional right-wing anti-semitism.
    Jewish Agency head Natan Sharansky expects the French number to exceed 5,000 this year. That would be about 1 percent of France’s total Jewish population, which compares with 3,300 in 2013 and 1,900 in 2012.
    Israel is naturally an attraction for economic reasons as it has been ranked the 17th most competitive economy in the world.
    The Zionist project is well and truly thriving.
    Remember nobody is forcing you to read the NYT. Maybe you would feel better if you stick to MaanNews or Al-Jazeera.

    • just
      June 21, 2014, 8:45 pm

      BS. Islamophobia has been carefully cultivated while you still scream anti-semitism! Oh no, Mayhem. The actions of Israel are to blame for what you are somehow confusing with what was real European anti-semitism by a crazy person and his adherents then to the reality of today. Any response to the evil that Israel perpetrates is now not so cleverly cloaked as anti-semitism, when it is in reality anti- Zionism and anti- Israeli Gov’t.

      See Noreena Hertz’ column in The Guardian and the responses……

      link to theguardian.com

      The game is up.

  10. james3
    June 21, 2014, 11:08 pm

    The Tommasini article reticulated the ordinary divides. The Judi Rudoren participle articulated the ordinary lies.

    America didn’t read either.

    America buys Holy Blue or Royal Red. Blue and Red inhale whatever lie makes America happy: America is a democracy, Israel is freedom and democracy

  11. Palikari
    June 21, 2014, 11:47 pm

    The NYT is an anti-Israel newspaper most times.

  12. Daniel Rich
    June 22, 2014, 1:45 am

    “‘Israel arrests more Palestinians in hunt for teens,’ because there ain’t no Palestinian unity government, only evildoers. Don’t think otherwise!” – IDF

  13. seafoid
    June 22, 2014, 2:29 am

    Israel is not stable. The dynamics are ever rightward and it’s going to be very interesting to see what happens over the next few years as the fruitcakes take over completely. I wonder how lickspittles such as Rudoren and the NYT will report the news then.

    Amira Hass isn’t in denial.

    link to haaretz.com

    “Later, S. from Tel Aviv called to say that she had read it, and it made her feel sick. And I rejoiced. Two people from New York thanked me for the anger with which I wrote about the Israeli plan to expel thousands more in the near future. The rest don’t imagine that I need any emotional support, a charging of batteries, after composing such obscene sentences.

    A. and A. and A. from Tel Aviv and Acre didn’t even have a chance to read it, in my opinion. Or their reservoir of shock was already filled by reports about the administrative detention of the hunger strikers. The shock begins with the very fact of arrest without trial for years on end, and the fact that the vast majority is not upset by that. The shock is about a hunger strike that has already been going on for 45 days, which doesn’t interest anyone, and the shock continues with a focus on the punishments administered by the prison authorities: no family visits, no lawyers’ visits, chaining prisoners to their hospital beds (to anyone who skipped a part and reached this point: I’m not talking about Tibet). ”

    And the tightening up of the “Jewish State ” legislation is a like a scab they can’t stop picking.

    link to haaretz.com

    “In recent years the right wing has attempted to pass the so-called “Jewish State law” in a bid to force the High Court of Justice to give Israel’s Jewish identity priority over its democratic one in cases in which the two clashed.
    The bill called the “Land of Israel” the exclusive homeland of the Jewish nation and no other. ”

    But Israel is very open to gay Jews so everything is going to work out fine.

    • Walid
      June 22, 2014, 3:15 am

      “… and it’s going to be very interesting to see what happens over the next few years as the fruitcakes take over completely. ”

      Almost the exact words prophesied by the Arabs in the early 70s, seafoid, after the thrashing they took in 67 that made them realize they’d never whip Israel militarily. At the time, they predicted that Israel would eventually self-destruct from within because of all the diverse people flowing into it from different countries pretending to be one people.

      • seafoid
        June 22, 2014, 6:47 am

        I think the problem they have now Walid is the fruit of their education system. You want to indoctrinate the kids to hate Palestinians and still be productive and ‘liberal’ but it’s a very sensitive process and if you get it wrong you end up with large proportions of Liebermans. The gulf between Yank and Sabra Jews widens daily.

        Eventually they’ll kill off even the “reasonable” sociopaths like Zippy. It’s an interesting social experiment and because they are all ultimately from somewhere else I suppose they have less chance of moderating what’s happening.

        I was looking at one of Burston’s recent efforts where he asked Phil Weiss to go to Israel

        “Don’t let Israel go. Come. Listen. Talk. Crack the wall.”

        But it’s so messy- where would you start ? They need national counseling. New memes.

        That Hass article shows how damaged the political scene is. She sees where it is heading. What can individuals do to change the direction of a country with no vision ?

      • seafoid
        June 22, 2014, 8:38 am

        Walid

        I was thinking about this following your post

        Hostage posted it while ago

        link to history.state.gov

        “In reply to query, Battle repeated assurances given Israelis in New York that Secretary’s meeting with Jordanian Foreign Minister22. Rusk met with Jordanian Foreign Minister Muhammad Adib Al-‘Ameri on September 26 in New York. A memorandum of the conversation is ibid., POL JORDAN–US. took routine course and produced no surprises. Could not explain basis for reportedly optimistic statement made by Jordanian to press following meeting.

        The Arabs were shafted by the lobby back in 1967 but it was all illegal and still is. There is no legal basis for any Jewish Israeli presence in the Occupied Territories. The land is Palestinian

        The lobby won in 1967 but YESHA was and still is a deeply immoral and cruel project. The cost of keeping it going has been the weakening and coarsening of Israeli society – Israel can never go back to how it was on June 3 1967. It’s a harder, more deluded country now.

        And it’s eventually going to have to surrender to decency. And say goodbye to billions of dollars sunk into the fantasy.

        And those Arabs who looked at it all in the 70s will be vindicated.

      • DaBakr
        June 22, 2014, 8:05 pm

        oh my, are you actually admitting that the Arabs wanted to “whip Israel militarily”? I thought the meme here on MW was Israel instigated ALL military conflict with peaceful neighbors?

      • talknic
        June 23, 2014, 5:02 am

        @ DaBakr “are you actually admitting that the Arabs wanted to “whip Israel militarily”?”

        Uh? Realizing someone is better armed, better prepared and ruthlessly brutal in war doesn’t mean you might want to whip them militarily or even fight them at all. However, if they attack you as Israel has everyone around it, they’re within their rights to attempt a response.

        “I thought the meme here on MW was Israel instigated ALL military conflict with peaceful neighbors?”

        It has. There are no UNSC resolutions against any of Israel’s neighbours for attacking Israel. They have had a right to respond to Israeli aggression (for which there ARE UNSC resolutions against Israel)

      • Shingo
        June 23, 2014, 5:08 am

        I thought the meme here on MW was Israel instigated ALL military conflict with peaceful neighbors?

        They have and nothing has changed.

      • Walid
        June 23, 2014, 8:05 am

        “oh my, are you actually admitting that the Arabs wanted to “whip Israel militarily”?

        DaGenius, after Israel had expelled the 7 or 800,00 Palestinian Arabs, the Arabs had no other choice.

  14. a blah chick
    June 22, 2014, 7:10 am

    I went over to the NY Times website and the story of the missing youths has definitely fallen in interest. Nothing on the front page and nothing new on the world news site.

    Or are they adhering to a gag order. Richard Silverstein has a post saying that the youths are dead and the security people know it. But with a gag order in place Israeli media can’t report this. Mr Sara wants to milk the emotional drama to manipulate the public and distract from the failed “peace talks.” If this is true then he is playing with fire. If it comes out that he and his representatives knew all along that the youths were dead while telling the country they were alive, well he better give the famlies a wide burth.

    Apparently the security people are learning nothing from all the hundreds of people they have arrested. If the guys were taken by people who are not attached to any group this would make sense. Also if the Israeli authorities learned early on that the guys were dead that would explain why they have operated with such jackboot thuggery; these people are dead so let’s exploit the situation to destroy the unity government. If that is true then we are beyond political cynism and firmly in the realm of sadism.

  15. James Canning
    June 22, 2014, 1:55 pm

    Very good news indeed. Israel-Palestine is a central problem in American politics, and in a way similar to the Irish problem in British politics a century or so ago.

  16. MRW
    June 22, 2014, 8:25 pm

    Ninety-eight percent of Americans did not grow up putting coins in cans to support and contribute to a theocracy across the pond. We certainly did not grow up thinking it was a proper and American thing to harm a people because of a word-of-mouth land grant, steal their land, and pistol-whip their children for 70 years while the coins fulfilled their plan.

    Yet the people who want that theocracy came here, like many of us, to put down roots and benefit from the safety of this land, this country and its rules. They didn’t settle where they could and would build the theocracy. They settled here where the concept of a theocracy is anathema to everything America stands for, and has been for 238 years.

    And Americans are expected to embrace this cognitive dissonance? You expect our religious and social groups to cheerlead this behavior? You are surprised that the churches (not the state)—what Phil calls public life–are expressing what churches do under their covenant?

    The NYT, unfortunately, has developed the famous cartoon NewYorkeritis: the USA is defined by New York on the east coast and LA on the west, and no longer has the slightest sense that anyone lives nor matters in-between. And we are the poorer for it.

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