Netanyahu says there will never be a real Palestinian state

Israel/Palestine
on 66 Comments
Benjamin Netanyahu

Benjamin Netanyahu

Lots of folks are talking about this. Last Friday, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu gave a press conference in Hebrew in which he stated that he would never accept Palestinian sovereignty in the West Bank because Israel’s security needs are too great in an era of Islamic radicalism. His remarks have been summarized by David Horovitz in the Times of Israel, with limited quotations.

“I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: There cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan,” Netanyahu said, leading Horovitz to say: “That sentence, quite simply, spells the end to the notion of Netanyahu consenting to the establishment of a Palestinian state.” Just Bantustans, what we’ve observed again and again in recent years. 

Here are fuller excerpts of Horovitz’s account:

He made explicitly clear that he could never, ever, countenance a fully sovereign Palestinian state in the West Bank. He indicated that he sees Israel standing almost alone on the frontlines against vicious Islamic radicalism, while the rest of the as-yet free world does its best not to notice the march of extremism. And he more than intimated that he considers the current American, John Kerry-led diplomatic team to be, let’s be polite, naive.

Netanyahu has stressed often in the past that he doesn’t want Israel to become a binational state — implying that he favors some kind of accommodation with and separation from the Palestinians. But on Friday he made explicit that this could not extend to full Palestinian sovereignty. Why? Because, given the march of Islamic extremism across the Middle East, he said, Israel simply cannot afford to give up control over the territory immediately to its east, including the eastern border — that is, the border between Israel and Jordan, and the West Bank and Jordan.

The priority right now, Netanyahu stressed, was to “take care of Hamas.” But the wider lesson of the current escalation was that Israel had to ensure that “we don’t get another Gaza in Judea and Samaria.” Amid the current conflict, he elaborated, “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: that there cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan.”

Not relinquishing security control west of the Jordan, it should be emphasized, means not giving a Palestinian entity full sovereignty there. It means not acceding to Mahmoud Abbas’s demands, to Barack Obama’s demands, to the international community’s demands. This is not merely demanding a demilitarized Palestine; it is insisting upon ongoing Israeli security oversight inside and at the borders of the West Bank. That sentence, quite simply, spells the end to the notion of Netanyahu consenting to the establishment of a Palestinian state. A less-than-sovereign entity? Maybe, though this will never satisfy the Palestinians or the international community. A fully sovereign Palestine? Out of the question.

He wasn’t saying that he doesn’t support a two-state solution. He was saying that it’s impossible. This was not a new, dramatic change of stance by the prime minister. It was a new, dramatic exposition of his long-held stance….

“If we were to pull out of Judea and Samaria, like they tell us to,” he said bitterly — leaving it to us to fill in who the many and various foolish “theys” are — “there’d be a possibility of thousands of tunnels” being dug by terrorists to attack Israel, he said…

Netanyahu hammered home the point: Never mind what the naive outsiders recommend, “I told John Kerry and General Allen, the Americans’ expert, ‘We live here, I live here, I know what we need to ensure the security of Israel’s people.’”

Earlier this spring, Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon sparked a storm in Israel-US ties when he told a private gathering that the US-Kerry-Allen security proposals weren’t worth the paper they were written on. Netanyahu on Friday said the same, and more, in public.

Netanyahu didn’t say he was ruling out all territorial compromise, but he did go to some lengths to highlight the danger of relinquishing what he called “adjacent territory.”

These remarks are what Jeff Halper reflected in his great post on our site last week, saying that Israel’s plan for Palestinians is to “submit, leave or die.” They demonstrate that the era of the two-state solution is past, and we have entered a period of full-on struggle for equal rights inside one state that was generated by an ideology of Jewish nationalism–Zionism. It is no surprise that Palestinians quoted by Pam Bailey on our site have cheered the Hamas rockets as a symbol of undying resistance to that discriminatory regime, which doesn’t hesitate to use violence. It is no surprise that Rana Baker at Open Democracy also praises the rockets and says that Palestinians will never yield to the Zionist vision.

The Israeli Jewish public must understand that there shall be no security so long as they do not turn their anger and frustration at their very supremacist privilege and ideological system which is embodied in the Israeli government, left-wing, centrist, or right-wing. No one is asking them to leave, but they must accept Palestinian resistance insofar as they accept the arrogance which characterises the Zionist ideology. The radical potential of Palestinian rockets, of sirens going off, lies in these rockets’ ability to disrupt a system of privilege which Israeli Jews enjoy at the expense of colonised and displaced Palestinians. Rockets, in other words, are a radical declaration of existence and unmediated expression of self-determination.

I happen to disagree with Baker, but the conflict has been freshly envenomed by Israel’s wanton killing of scores of civilians and children; and it is clear that many, many young Palestinians share her belief about the best ways to counter violent enslavement. And who has the right to instruct slaves on the ill-considered nature of their rebellion? Historian David McCullough said on Charlie Rose the other day that more than half the American colonists were against revolution; their sentiments were less important than the determination of idealists who were willing to use violence. Nelson Mandela also endorsed the use of violence at a crucial point in the South African struggle; and the Algerian rebels dedicated themselves to violent revolution after a 1945 massacre. The only argument I’d make to these young violent Palestinians is that help really is on the way: a global nonviolent movement to put pressure on Israel to transform itself is afoot. That’s why I’m for BDS, as actually a conservative outcome here, neither continued ethnic cleansing and periodic massacre, nor violent revolution. BDS has pressured Israel as no other international action before, even actions by the U.N. As Israelis themselves say, it is an existential threat, a threat of delegitimization. Is it possible for Israel to transform itself and grant Palestinian freedom and maintain itself as a Jewish state? I think not; that moment is passed, that was the magic trick of the two-state compromise, and it has patently failed. The ideology of Jewish nationalism won’t pass from the stage without deep grief and violence. Part of the struggle ahead therefore is to convince the adherents of the Jewish state in America, all the Jewish organizations and religious groups who believe that we need a Jewish state even though we are doing fine here, of the historical error in this belief. The record is clear, that the implementation of the Zionist vision has only generated rising violence in Israel and its environs (as the State Department and Franklin Roosevelt predicted in 1940s when plans for such a state were put forward). American Jews can do the greatest service to the future of Israel and Palestine and the broader Middle East by saying they don’t need a Jewish state; they are happy to see the end of Jewish privilege in that land. This is the great work that Jewish Voice for Peace and Jews Say No are doing, preparing the Jewish community for exodus from a false belief.

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

Other posts by .


Posted In:

66 Responses

  1. Jenin Younes
    July 15, 2014, 11:01 am

    well, now that Netanyahu has blatantly spoken the truth about his vision I no longer have to waste my time disputing claims that Netanyahu really wants a Palestinian state or a just solution. I guess he did us all a huge favor in this regard.

    It is clear now that a single, democratic state with equal rights for all is the only possible, and only just, solution. I am not an optimist. I think too many will resist this and would rather kill every last Palestinian while the world watches than live as equal citizens alongside them.

  2. American
    July 15, 2014, 11:15 am

    ” The ideology of Jewish nationalism won’t pass from the stage without deep grief and violence. Part of the struggle ahead therefore is to convince the adherents of the Jewish state in America, all the Jewish organizations and religious groups who believe that we need a Jewish state even though we are doing fine here, of the historical error in this belief. ”

    You can convince some individual Jews but the Jewish Orgs are another story, most of them were formed for the purpose of supporting a supremist Israel.
    Maybe some exposes of how they rip off Jews for their Zio, Inc Mafia business and personal zio big wig cushy salaries and profit would help. I know that Jews have a term for ‘suckers’….they should be shown how they are being played for suckers.

    • ziusudra
      July 15, 2014, 1:56 pm

      Greetings American,
      Bibi has now finally verbalized his Goal& manifested his character & plan of the Entlösung for the Palestinains:
      Summit, leave or die!
      If the US & Europe go along with this and docially sit by while Genocide
      takes place, God help us all!
      ziusudra
      PS I know this not in the interest of the Israelis, US Jews or People of the Globe.

  3. Boomer
    July 15, 2014, 11:21 am

    Perhaps more Americans will begin to ask why their government and their tax dollars support a society that treats people this way. After 50 years of struggle to give civil rights for all, Americans won’t be happy about that if they know. But it seems that the U.S. media only give grudging attention to Palestinians when they are being killed in large numbers. A few at a time won’t be reported. So maybe things will change, or maybe Israel will go back to doing just enough to stay off the American public’s radar.

  4. Mikesailor
    July 15, 2014, 11:37 am

    Last night on Chris Hayes show, he brought up two issues with Congressman Jim Moran, normally one of the more honest memebrs concerning I/P issues.. The first was the fact that he was one of the few members of Congress asking for a ceasefire. He replied that it was a fact that most of his colleagues sided with Israel, avopiding calling them out for their callousness and toadying. Then Hayes brought up Netanyahu’s statement. Instead of acknowledging the truth of the statement, Moran hemmed and hawed basically saying he did not believe the statement reflected Israeli policy. Left unsaid were the ramifications of this being a true relection of Israelin policy. For if it is, a rethinking of US foreign policy would be in order and no longer could the US establishment hide behind the idea of a “peace process” for it is evident that Israel has no intention of allowing Palestinian self-determination. It does make one wonder why the Forward and other Jewish publications haven’t covered the statement by Netanyahu. Nor has the US media establishment for all it shows is that they are living in fantasyland to believe Israel wants any peace for the Palestinians except the peace of the grave.

  5. LanceThruster
    July 15, 2014, 11:41 am

    So that’s the Palestinians’ partner for peace?

  6. StanleyHeller
    July 15, 2014, 11:46 am

    An interview I did this morning with a woman in the central Gaza Strip. http://www.thestruggle.podbean.com …. We’ve completed 3 of 5 demonstrations for Gaza, Palestine, etc. in CT. We’ve had some success in getting the media to talk about cutting off all U.S. aid to Israel. I think it’s no longer a forbidden notion. I urge others to promote this theme. We won’t win Congress this time, but we could win a significant section of the people (especially as “The Nation” says 40% of the families in Detroit will have no running water by the end of the summer)

  7. HarryLaw
    July 15, 2014, 11:47 am

    I happen to believe in the two state solution, this also happens to be the solution backed by every nation, and every Agency and all other institutions at the United Nations, there is no political party anywhere in the world including Israel and Palestine who favor a one state solution, in fact the only reason Israelis would want one state is if they could complete the annexation of the West Bank and realize the dream inherent in Zionism for “The Land of Israel” as they see it. The little problem for them are those squatters who reside in their millions on the land God gave them 4,000 years ago, their efforts at ethnic cleansing, theft and murder has failed to thin the Palestinians out. In fact their numbers are growing and pose a demographic threat to the purity of the Israeli state. The US state Dept published a report in 2004 where they calculated the population of Palestinians living in Israel, the Occupied Gaza Strip, Occupied East Jerusalem and rest of the Occupied West Bank combined now exceeds the number of Israeli Jews,
    The Palestinian population stands at over 5.3 million while the Jewish population stands at 5.2 million.
    The figures come from the U.S. State Department’s annual Country Reports on Human Rights Practices. http://electronicintifada.net/content/ei-exclusive-palestinian-population-exceeds-jewish-population-says-us-government/5491 The only answer to Israelis who want a majority Jewish state and a majority which will be guaranteed for the foreseeble future, is to comply with International Law, get back behind the borders they agreed to in 1948, then they will be accepted by the whole of the Islamic community [57 states], and be a valued member of the community of nations. Failure to do this means never ending death and destruction, with the inevitable demise of the racist state.

    • Justpassingby
      July 15, 2014, 12:03 pm

      World doesnt know about the conflict so even if 100% say they are for 2 states, that doesnt mean anything really.
      You hear what netanyahu say, you see what he and other israeli leaders have done, there will never be 2 states, it cant be.

    • JustJessetr
      July 15, 2014, 12:06 pm

      That’s why Israel is considering annexation. For better or worse.

      • talknic
        July 15, 2014, 2:22 pm

        @ JustJessetr “That’s why Israel is considering annexation”

        A) Unilateral annexation is illegal (see UNSC res 252)

        B) If Israel is considering annexation, it IS NOT YET Israeli and Israeli civilians are there ILLEGALLY!

        C) If it is not yet Israeli WTF is Israel doing selling land there to illegal Israeli settlers?

        What kind of sick state sells land in territory it does not own to civilians who should not be there after encouraging them to break a convention adopted to protect them (yes it is to protect ALL civilians incl those of “Israel, the Occupying Power”) from the very likely violent consequences of occupying another people.

    • George Smith
      July 15, 2014, 12:44 pm

      This “international consensus” is a consensus of a tiny coterie of ruling elites. It’s not a consensus that can mobilize a global campaign for justice. For that, only equal rights will do, and equal rights will mean an end to Jewish ethnocracy. The phony two-state “consensus” only serves as a smokescreen for continued Zionist expulsion and oppression. Zionist governments, from left to right, have made abundantly clear that they have no intention of permitting creation of a sovereign Palestinian state; Netanyahu’s intransigence is anything but extreme in Israeli political discourse.

      Implementing the two-state “solution,” even if by some incredible miracle it came to pass, would hardly be a occasion for unreserved celebration. It would in effect entail yet another ethnic cleansing, this time of Jews. It would be acceding to the false premise that the conflict is about ethnic sovereignty, not about justice. Isn’t it long past time to repudiate nationalistic, exclusivist “solidarity,” whether Jewish or Palestinian?

      • HarryLaw
        July 15, 2014, 3:42 pm

        George Smith @ This “international consensus” is a consensus of a tiny coterie of ruling elites”.
        I think you are wrong, how else can world opinion be measured except by the unanimous views outlined in my comment above.
        “It’s not a consensus that can mobilize a global campaign for justice. For that, only equal rights will do, and equal rights will mean an end to Jewish ethnocracy”.
        I presume you mean equal rights in a one state solution? This would mean the end of Israel, This may be a good thing if the end result was indeed equal rights for all,unfortunately that is a recipe for civil war and massive ethnic cleansing, then you say two states would mean the ethnic cleansing of Jews from the West Bank, no, they are in the West Bank illegally, some formula would have to be found either to repatriate them back to Israel proper or negotiate with the Palestinian Government to allow them to stay [as citizens of Palestine] remember it is the Israeli Government and the Yesha council who initiated the settlement enterprise after the 67 war they have the primary responsibility to bring it to a close. I for one am not holding my breath.

      • RoHa
        July 15, 2014, 7:24 pm

        ” I for one am not holding my breath.”

        I’m surprised you have any left after your penultimate sentence.

        The settlers seem to me to be a problem for which there is no easy solution. From what little I know of them, I cannot imagine them quietly becoming good citizens of a Palestinian state. On the other hand, I cannot see them quietly packing up and going to Israel, and I am not convinced that the more sensible Israelis would be too happy about having yet another large bunch of disgruntled crazies within the new borders.

        Nor is the one state solution going to ease the problem much. The new Republic of South Levant would no longer be a Jewish State. The idea that only Jews have rights to the land would have been abandoned. That too goes against the settler ideology.

    • American
      July 15, 2014, 3:10 pm

      ” The only answer to Israelis who want a majority Jewish state and a majority which will be guaranteed for the foreseeble future, is to comply with International Law, get back behind the borders they agreed to in 1948, then they will be accepted by the whole of the Islamic community [57 states], and be a valued member of the community of nations. Failure to do this means never ending death and destruction, with the inevitable demise of the racist state.”…Harry Law

      I agree.

  8. mijj
    July 15, 2014, 11:48 am

    .. and the Berlin Wall will never fall.

  9. Justpassingby
    July 15, 2014, 12:05 pm

    Have you guys watched what pro-israelis/israelis are writing on facebook walls? what they comment? It is pure pro-genocide stuff!

    • Jenin Younes
      July 15, 2014, 1:28 pm

      yes, I have really noticed this is stepping up. Also, I believe the NY Times comments sections are more full of racist/genocidal stuff than usual. And it appears a larger number of comments are supporting Israel/blaming Palestinians. I wonder if this has to do with Israel’s propaganda campaign, or if it is a true reflection of attitudes

      • Justpassingby
        July 15, 2014, 4:07 pm

        Jenin

        Exactly my views, yes of some reason the hatred for palestinians are bigger than ever of some reason.

      • Jenin Younes
        July 15, 2014, 5:00 pm

        it may be more a reflection of efforts on the part of the Israeli government to get pro-Israeli comments on every site than actual public opinion. But it is frightening and disturbing, really. I also can’t believe the Times lets some of these comments through moderation; some are clearly so genocidal and racist if said about any other group they immediately would be banned. One comment said Israel should bomb everything in Gaza, including daycare centers! So many say that all Arabs are terrorists and unworthy of basic human rights. I pointed this out several times to the Times moderators but to no avail

      • justicewillprevail
        July 15, 2014, 5:44 pm

        The hasbrats have stepped up their activities, always the same old regurgitated myths and lies. From the independent:

        “In the student union of a private university in the Israeli coastal city of Herzliya, a “Hasbara war room” has been set up as a contribution to the military effort. Hasbara literally means “explanation” but has also come to signify propaganda. Up to 400 students sit at banks of computers getting Israel’s message out online. “The goal is to deliver a very clear message to people abroad – Israel has the right to defend itself,” Lidor Bar David told Israeli news website, Ynet.

        “Although they haven’t been called up to the army yet, they’ve decided to enlist in a civilian mission that is no less important,” reported Ynet.

        The students – speaking in 30 languages – target online forums while aiming to appear as ordinary social media users. They lobby Facebook to take down pages which incite violence against Israel and circulate drawings of Hamas rockets made by traumatised Israeli children living close to Gaza.”

        http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israelgaza-conflict-social-media-becomes-the-latest-battleground-in-middle-east-aggression–but-beware-of-propaganda-and-misinformation-9605952.html

        It’s basically spamming/trolling on a gigantic scale. Even if it is demonstrably false, which it is, it serves to drown out the voices of real people calling for change.

      • Jenin Younes
        July 15, 2014, 6:57 pm

        justicewillprevail–that makes a lot of sense to me. I had been positively surprised by the comments sections a few months ago, felt they were reflective of some positive change in the right direction. So I was really shocked when I saw recently about 80-90% of comments to Times articles about Gaza that were supporting Israel, blaming everything on Hamas/Palestinians, etc. I strongly suspected this was hasbara and not representative of the readership

  10. eljay
    July 15, 2014, 12:07 pm

    >> “I think the Israeli people understand now what I always say: There cannot be a situation, under any agreement, in which we relinquish security control of the territory west of the River Jordan,” Netanyahu said…

    All hail Bibi, King of the Jews, and his Thousand Year (supremacist) Jewish State.

    What an asshole.

  11. Kay24
    July 15, 2014, 12:08 pm

    Well, there it is. All that dishonest song and dance about Palestinians not wanting peace, and not being a partner for peace, is nothing but Israeli BS. It was obvious that Israel did not want peace, or else by now that would be achieved and long time ago.
    How many expensive attempts at peace tables? They even pretended the Palestinians CHOOSE to live in open concentrated camps and under military occupation
    They make keeping these stupid excuses, and blaming the Palestinians, for their convenience. The Palestinians know this. They can see their land and water being stolen, under the watchful eyes of the world, and the UN has predicted the territories will be unlivable by 2020.
    “Israel’s plan for Palestinians is to “submit, leave or die.”
    The arrogance of a damned people, who were homeless and unwanted, until the UN urged by the UK and US, quietly dumped them in someone else’s land. It would be interesting if the UK and the US gave them a wink and a nod and told them they can grab as much as they wanted. The Palestinians can submit, leave, or die (isn’t that what Israel is doing right now anyway?) A toxic entity that has spread and poisoned the Palestinian territories.
    There it is folks, the devious master plan that was so obvious, and that the US and the congress keeps pushing for, when they keep repeating ad nauseam, that Israel has the right to defend itself, and show unwavering support. We are complicit in one of the worst crimes against a helpless people.

  12. Dan Crowther
    July 15, 2014, 12:29 pm

    Put down those rockets kiddo’s, Uncle Phil is reaching out to the American Jewish Community on your behalf……. Ha. Wow. What a crock. Weird how Phil is now playing that same “waiting game” so beloved by the liberal zionists “just wait and help us, we can transform…..don’t shoot!” – puke.

    • George Smith
      July 15, 2014, 1:08 pm

      Sorry, what’s your point Dan? Keep up the rockets? Are you claiming that rockets will bring on justice faster than will international delegitimization of Zionism? “Uncle” Phil isn’t counseling patience, he’s counseling urgency. And his advice isn’t being delivered to Palestinians; it’s being delivered to the global community of justice.

      • Dan Crowther
        July 15, 2014, 10:29 pm

        I don’t think Phil should be giving advice on the topic. That’s all.
        The global community of justice?!? LOL.

        Are you twelve years old? Global community of justice. Ain’t no justice, just us.

    • Kay24
      July 15, 2014, 1:53 pm

      Why, are the rockets an inconvenience for Israel? After all, without the rockets, Israel does not have an excuse to keep the military occupation going, and to greedily gobble up large plot of land, to build their illegal settlements.
      I take it that Phil’s article grates on your nerves eh? Some find it hard to see the truth.

  13. seafoid
    July 15, 2014, 12:45 pm

    No palestinian state means Israel dies slowly. The Crusaders were shit hot militarily in their day and dependent on outside support, just like Israel. And the support dried up, as it will for Israel. They left behind some lovely castles.

    That site on the edge of Asia is impossible to hold long term with a strategy of persecuting the neighbours.

  14. tokyobk
    July 15, 2014, 1:07 pm

    People around Netanyahu have been talking like this forever.

    Yes, Two States is dead and perhaps with it a Jewish majority Israel.

    American Jews will probably eventually come to support the idea of, if not a Jewish State, a state where Jews are also safe. How to get there? How does Phil Weiss, JVP help get them there?

    “Submit, die or leave” is actually “Submit die or leave or be drawn into a war” and for all the keyboard warrior fantasies here this week about Hiz and Hamas riding into Jerusalem, that is the ideal pretext for final conquest and massive expulsion.

    My suspicion is that the same around Netanyahu is that they think they can survive that and the political fallout and they probably can for the next half century which is about as far as any country can plan.

    As for “dying slowly:” all states are dying slowly (if they are not dying quickly) and my guess here is that Israel leadership actually agrees with something like that. We either give them a state and then they attack us and we die or we build a fortress. Fortress Israel is a disaster in many ways but the least of bad choices they believe, rough neighbourhood, king of the hill (literally given the topography, who can last the longest.

    • Mooser
      July 15, 2014, 1:19 pm

      “How does Phil Weiss, JVP help get them there?”

      Oh, gee, I don’t know, maybe by not killing anybody, or not encouraging anybody to kill, or steal? You know, little things like that.

      But please, please, in what way have “Phil Weiss, JVP” made Israel a place where Jews are not safe? Or do you deny that implication? Care to explain?

      • tokyobk
        July 15, 2014, 1:30 pm

        Mooser honestly you are having a conversation with the tokyobk in your head not the commenter at Mondoweiss or the person behind the comments. It’s obvious I ask in complete seriousness since I support the goal of Israel being safe for everyone and ending the worship of nationalism and like and support Phil even where I disagree with him. Go find another snarkee please.

      • DaBakr
        July 15, 2014, 2:36 pm

        @tokbk
        While I can assume your political pov differs vastly from mine on some issues regarding Zionism I read your comment above carefully and appreciate your conscientious desire to see this conflict ended with safety and dignity for all concerned. And I also appreciate your calling out the ‘@moosers’ of this forum who spend their efforts typing out ‘snarky’ and caustic snippets for the empty ‘chuckles’ they provide to some. In other words: the ultimate ‘wise-guy’ who uses some connection to Judaism as a way to earn legitimacy for his caustic wit. While I do sometimes enjoy a sarcastic banter in this case I believe it only serves the means and not the end.
        There are many voices that are not supportive of Zionism that deserve consideration and respect.{by all thinking Zionists and Israelis} The idea of “dying slowly” vs. “dying fast” within a 50 to 60 year context of warfare, lawfare, and tit-4-tat violence is certainly a legitimate concern that ‘snarky’ comments add nothing to.
        I would only add that the capacity for humans to change, and change quickly, is the one factor that can not be ‘planned’ by either the GOI or the leaders of Hamas, PA, or Hezbollah and Iran (which is the real proxy war thats panning out in the region and will influence much of what occurs*)

        *e.g. -for those here that constantly carp on the US military loans given to aid the IDF but rarely mention the Iranian weaponry in mid to long range missiles, anti-ship missiles, guns, rockets, etc that is trucked, shipped and smuggled into Africa and then Gaza or shipped to Hezbollah in the north. If that is not a proxy war I don’t know what is. And as usual, the Palestinian civilians are stuck in the fray. When commenters fight me on this issue I have to assume they have chosen sides, do not believe in ‘peace’ and support the military destruction of Israel. However-there are many other commenters here that are obviously NOT interested in long term war.

        p.s. with the news of our first citizen being killed by a Hamas rocket I have to be honest and wonder how many folks in either the US or elsewhere are secretly thinking , “FINALLY!” They managed to kill an Israeli Jew (as opposed to a Druze, Bedouin, Arab etc. which would be equally as horrible for most Israelis but somehow not ‘counting’ as the same as an actual Jewish Israeli kill. Can I prove this suspicion? No. But it is a hunch. Sadly, with the world growing smaller by way of inter-connectedness it is also growing far more detached as people tend to watch conflict from small screen devices and it morphs into a contest not unlike a sporting match or video game to those untouched by the violence. Human nature? maybe so. I dread the results when Hamas finally hits a school, hospital or complex (let alone Dimona, the targeting of which is a distinct war crime in itself) and kills more then a handful of Israelis. Not only for the Palestinians that do not support Hamas but for all people involved in the cycle of violence.

      • tokyobk
        July 15, 2014, 8:31 pm

        I don’t mind a caustic comment or a snipe either here and there and do it sometimes The thing about Mooser is that he is just wrong about who I am and what I believe. Snark requires wit, which s/he (I am guessing he – post middle age pre elderly East Coast) often shows. But like an ageing relative of mine who was a prankster in his youth setting the table on a roar, wry in his middle age, but who with his offbeat humour scared waitresses and check out ladies into thinking he was a wandered off , that kind of wit needs to be sharp.

        About missles: If you are firing into a populated area you may be right in your cause but you are not innocent. Both sides want to be right and innocent.

        I also think that while there will still be people who want Israel to go after a withdrawal, the withdrawal is the moral and practical starting point for a new discussion which would stop 90% of terror.

    • seafoid
      July 15, 2014, 2:26 pm

      Jews probably won’t be safe long term in Israel. There are too many risks, not all of which the IDF can deal with. The site was chosen for one specific reason unrelated to security. Israel is on the coastal plain and the Palestinians are inthe mountains. Israel has to run apartheid because of that. It remains completely dependent on outside powers. Zionism was a nice idea but it’s a joke now.

      • tokyobk
        July 15, 2014, 2:28 pm

        So you believe Jews can’t/shouldn’t live as equal citizens in Palestine?

      • seafoid
        July 15, 2014, 2:32 pm

        I can’t see them granting Palestinians equal rights. Can you?

        I see decline possibly ending in a cataclysm. Messianism is very expensive.

      • tokyobk
        July 15, 2014, 8:26 pm

        I don’t know but that’s the goal right?

        There will never be a complete reconquista of historic Palestine by anyone.

        -That- is the lesson from history.

  15. James Canning
    July 15, 2014, 2:23 pm

    If Israel is so stupid as to prevent the emergence of a viable independent Palestine, destruction of the state of Israel would be a fair punishment or such stupidity. In my judgment.

    • Justpassingby
      July 15, 2014, 4:09 pm

      israel digging its own grave, sooner or later the occupier will feel the result of its behavior.

    • Kay24
      July 15, 2014, 6:16 pm

      And the suckers in congress keep giving more…history will show they were aiding and abetting the criminal state.

      “A United States congressional committee on Tuesday approved a spending
      bill that would double the funding for Israel’s Iron Dome anti-missile system, Fox News reported.

      The defense spending bill approved by the Senate Appropriations defense subcommittee would provide $621.6 million for Israeli missile defense, including $351 million for the Iron Dome system.

      The bill still has to be approved by the full Senate.

      The allocation for Israel is only a small part of the full bill, which would provide the U.S. armed forces with $549.3 billion for the fiscal year beginning October 1.”
      Haaretz

      • crone
        July 15, 2014, 9:00 pm

        USG is broke… anyone noticed? The dollar? Jobs? Some see really hard times coming.

        Who does Israel turn to then?

        Fifty years?

        There’s a lot going on in the world. Jus sayin

      • DaBakr
        July 16, 2014, 1:09 am

        Israel has been shifting its economic interests to the east in both China and India primarily and other Asian nations as well. You shouldn’t spend your time ‘worrying’ about poor little Israel depending on the USA for military support that has made the US military arms industry BILLIONS btw. Israel is a dynamic force and will move to meet challenges in the future while I fear that the Palestinian leadership has not prepared its people to adapt to any change that might help them ease into the changing world dynamics.

      • Annie Robbins
        July 16, 2014, 1:52 am

        Israel has been shifting its economic interests to the east in both China and India

        it’s about time. get them off our back.

        poor little Israel … made the US military arms industry BILLIONS btw.

        only in your lala land. taking the money from uncle sam and shifting it to the arms industry still amounts to taking money from US tax payers for the benefit of israel. the US should have skipped israel and dumped the $ into health care for americans.

      • seafoid
        July 16, 2014, 2:43 am

        Dabakr
        If you think Israel can dump the West over apartheid and successfully replace it with China I have a bridge out the back I can sell you. Israel is a high cost manufacturing location that thinks the world owes it something. It has been operating in its own version of reality for a very long time and is not ready for the return to banality.

      • Shingo
        July 16, 2014, 7:03 am

        Israel is a high cost manufacturing location that thinks the world owes it something. It has been operating in its own version of reality for a very long time and is not ready for the return to banality.

        No kidding. Just ask Grant Smith, who obtained documents from the GAO that reveal that America’s trade agreement with ISrael is so one sided, so distorted and Orwellian that it was described as a US$10 billion annual grant to Israel.

        Neither China nor India is going to agree to that kind of absurd arrangement.

      • Shingo
        July 16, 2014, 7:00 am

        You shouldn’t spend your time ‘worrying’ about poor little Israel depending on the USA for military support that has made the US military arms industry BILLIONS

        Oh but we will hasbrat, seeing as Israel is not only still entirely dependent on the US for it’s weapons, but is asking for the aid to be increased, not to mention the fact that the IDF can;t even pay it’s bills being in the red to the tune of US$20 billion in spite of all the money they get from Washington.

        Israel is a dynamic force and will move to meet challenges in the future

        Except that they have and will fail to meet the challenge of a political settlement wit the Arabs, without which, Israel is doomed.

        Tick tock tick tock.

      • Citizen
        July 15, 2014, 10:06 pm

        I wonder what the poor residents of Detroit think of all this tax money going to make the Iron Yarmulka (money additional to the usual $8.5 million daily, plus interest)? Lots of Palestinians live in Detroit area, don’t they?

      • MahaneYehude1
        July 16, 2014, 6:58 am

        @Annie;

        the US should have skipped israel and dumped the $ into health care for americans.

        I agree. Israel strong enough and I think doesn’t need US money.

      • Shingo
        July 16, 2014, 7:24 pm

        I agree. Israel strong enough and I think doesn’t need US money.

        I does if it wants to maintain the occupation and remain the strongest military in the region. With the IDF in the red to the tune of 20 billion, Clearly it cannot afford it’s own weapons.

      • just
        July 16, 2014, 7:29 pm

        Some blonde “reporter” told wolf tonight that the Congress is poised to give more $$$ for Iron Dome. I guess we’ll have to replace all the bombs, worn out machinery that Israel has depleted, too.

        What a waste of our money.

    • RoHa
      July 16, 2014, 12:16 am

      “destruction of the state of Israel would be a fair punishment”

      Of the state, yes, but not of the people.

      • James Canning
        July 16, 2014, 7:11 pm

        Yes. If the State is determined to do itself in, one supposes the primary need would be to limit to damage to the people of the State.

  16. Shingo
    July 15, 2014, 5:00 pm

    I can’t wait to see J Street freak out over this.

  17. Pixel
    July 15, 2014, 5:42 pm

    ” …exodus from a false belief.”

    Love that line.

  18. Goldenrule
    July 15, 2014, 5:46 pm

    My friend made this petition – everyone please consider signing it, and then pass it on to your friends. It is time for religious leaders – in this case Pope Francis – to hold Israel accountable for its’ war crimes against Palestine. Peace!

  19. DICKERSON3870
    July 15, 2014, 7:19 pm

    That photo of Netanyahu with the right (i.e., his left) eyebrow raised so reminds me of Mike Myers playing Dr. Evil.
    Go figure!

    • Citizen
      July 15, 2014, 10:13 pm

      He looks sort of demented, like a few screws are loose. Maybe something to do with his eyes & eye brows, which look like they each came from a separate set, and his mouth seems pasted to one side. Interesting photo of him.

  20. Talkback
    July 16, 2014, 9:23 am

    Thank you Bibi. You’re making it much easier to support BDS.

    • lysias
      July 16, 2014, 10:17 am

      Norman Finkelstein said on Democracy Now! yesterday that the UN should impose sanctions on Israel until it ends its illegal occupation.

      • Shingo
        July 16, 2014, 6:46 pm

        Norman Finkelstein said on Democracy Now! yesterday that the UN should impose sanctions on Israel until it ends its illegal occupation.

        So Chomsky can add the S back to the end of BD.

  21. Jethro
    July 16, 2014, 12:22 pm

    Sanctions? Isn’t that the “S” in the cult of BDS?

  22. libra
    July 16, 2014, 5:14 pm

    Great post Phil, an excellent follow-up to Jeff Halper. Arguing for the end of Jewish privilege in Israel / Palestine is a smart approach, it’s right in of itself without needing a Palestinian demand for a single, democratic state. Though it helps make space for that option.

    But I think the argument that Jewish privilege isn’t necessary isn’t enough. With Israel effectively occupying and controlling the Palestinians, it must be made clear that it is simply unacceptable.

  23. Keith
    July 16, 2014, 7:38 pm

    PHIL- “American Jews can do the greatest service to the future of Israel and Palestine and the broader Middle East by saying they don’t need a Jewish state….”

    What American Jews are those, Phil? Zionism and Israel have been key factors in re-establishing Jewish solidarity (kinship) resulting in power Jews joining the upper tiers of the imperial power elite. Empire Jews. Jewish fat-cats profit immensely from the spoils of empire and are not likely to change as long as that remains true. Israel currently is an integral part of empire. The reshaping of the Middle East is a joint undertaking. ISIS (ISIL) has ties to both the CIA and Massad, and is part of the plans to breakup targeted Middle East states like Iraq and Syria. ISIS also provides Israel with a pretext for occupying the Jordan Valley and, when the time is right, for seizing control of Southern Lebanon. One part of all of this is for Israel to destroy Hamas and Hezbollah. BDS is fine in a limited sort of way, but don’t delude yourself with unrealistic expectations. By the way, how is the Free Gaza Movement doing following the Mondoweiss intervention?

  24. John D
    July 16, 2014, 11:15 pm

    Now Netanyahu has come clean about his intentions, it now becomes incumbent upon the Palestinian people to get themslves organised to wage a war of liberation against the Zionists. As pointed out, the global BDS campaign is hitting the Zionists hard but it still needs a twin-track strategy to gain eventual success.
    There are still – today – resentful racist supremacists in South Africa who would like nothing better than to turn the clock back to the “good” old days of apartheid.
    Sharon moved a whole bunch of resentful squatters out of Gaza, did he not?
    This proves that change can be achieved if the opposition can step up to the task.
    It is now time that the PLO was reconstituted and started waging the war on Bibi.
    I think the current situation in Gaza is creating “interesting” times for Zionism.
    They are losing the previous unchallenged global support they used to enjoy.
    They are now clearly on the downward losing spiral of defeat – just a matter of time.

Leave a Reply