Child’s beating in Jerusalem brings unprecedented coverage of Palestinian experience to U.S.

Israel/Palestine
on 156 Comments

 

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The brutal beating of a 15-year-old Palestinian-American boy by Israeli forces in Jerusalem is proving to be a landmark moment in coverage of the conflict, as American media are reporting Tarek Abu Khdeir’s story in a straightforward manner for once. Their sympathetic reports are bringing the Palestinian experience back here as never before.

You can see what the New York Times did today. As Jamil Dakwar notes: “US passport gets you out of Israeli jail 2 house arrest, 1st page in NYT & condemnation. That’s something!”

Then there’s the Washington Post.

The Post has up a video interview of the youth, in which he says that he was just watching protests of his cousin’s murder when police attacked him. Tarek Abu Khdeir says No when asked he threw rocks.

I was standing there watching what was happening… I tried to jump the fence, and I fell after I jumped the fence… I don’t know why they came running at me, but right after they came running at me, I ran… I don’t know why they hit me that hard. I fell asleep from how hard they hit me. I went unconscious.

His mother Suha adds:

I’m angry, I’m disturbed. I’m ready to take legal action. Because this happens to Palestinians every single day… [Because he’s an American] He got the opportunity for all the media and for the whole world to hear him. For once. But other Palestinians that live here, this happens all the time, they never have the opportunity to voice, to talk about it, to show.

She says that one official from the US consulate has been with the family from day 1.

My message is that I’m sorry you don’t show that you have feelings. You do not have hearts. This is a child. He’s 15, and to beat him up this badly, you have no personal issues with him. No one should be beat up this badly. No one. For any reason… This is not human.

Ayman Mohyeldin of NBC posted this video of Abu Khdeir being released to house arrest and had an excellent report on the Nightly News last night. He asked Abu Khdeir what the marks were on his wrists. The boy said: “This is from the handcuffs when they took me to jail.” Mohyeldin also showed video of marks on the youth’s back– from “stomping,” Abu Khdeir said.

On National Public Radio this morning, a story on the conflict was introduced by Steve Inskeep, who said that “Israel says” that those it killed in Gaza are “militants.”

Reporter Daniel Estrin also spoke with Suha Abu Khdeir and said she “rejected the police claim that [her son] was found with a slingshot… She understood what her Palestinian relatives have been experiencing all these years.” He then quotes her:

After actually coming and going through it, I don’t blame these people for hating, for having so much hate for Israel.

Note that Ron Dermer, Israeli ambassador to the U.S., went on national television yesterday, ABC, and accused this boy of throwing Molotov cocktails and petrol bombs. While NPR reports that the police have accused him of using a slingshot. So Dermer was wildly exaggerating Israeli police claims, which the youth has denied?

Here is ABC’s interview of Abu Khdeir. “I was blown. I was like Why? Why is this happening?”

Here’s the CNN report on the beating:

And see what Col. Patrick Lang has to say about the case— Obama should bring Tarek out for medical evaluation.

This Floridian is being held in house arrest as a suspect in a case of supposed violence against Israeli police. He is an Americn kid, born in Florida who was in Jerusalem visiting his dying grandmother. He IS NOT a dual national. His parents seek competent medical attention for his injuries. Obama should order USAF medical evacuation of this boy and his parents to US medical facilities in Europe where his government can be assured of his safety. The Israeli government should be informed of what they can do with their house arrest order.

Tell the US government what should be done to make this right.

 

 

156 Responses

  1. Woody Tanaka
    July 7, 2014, 9:33 am

    Ron Dermer should be tossed out of the US and the Israeli embassy flattened to the ground. The Israelis have poisoned the soil of the US for too long with their lies and excuses. I’m surprised that they didn’t claim that this innocent boy wasn’t planning on setting off a nuke.

  2. Citizen
    July 7, 2014, 9:55 am

    McCain is on MSNBC now saying Kerry should go there and try to work some magic as “this thing is in danger of spiraling out of control.” The presentation of the “breaking news” is one of even balance, i.e., both sides are doing nasty things to each other. No context at all, and the narrative is that the death of the 3 Israeli teens initiated this cycle of violence, with one Israeli victim being an American citizen (dual citizen?) and one Palestinian being an American “of Palestinian roots.”

  3. just
    July 7, 2014, 10:12 am

    Burston has an editorial worth reading today, imho:

    “…..I want to apologize for what’s in the air.

    I want to apologize for those on my side who can speak with appropriate condemnation about brutal kidnap-murders – but who feel they must add, as Prime Minister Netanyahu did this week, that the moral high ground is my side’s alone: “This is what differentiates us from our neighbors. There the murderers are welcomed as heroes, and squares are named for them.”He went on to say that my side jails and puts on trial those who incite, while your side makes incitement part of the work of officialdom and educators.

    I want to apologize for those on my side who are guilty of incitement, and whom we neither jail nor try, but rather furnish salaries as cabinet ministers, heads of youth movements, civil servant chief rabbis, and commentators.

    “I want to apologize to good people who are being driven out of this place by the actions and words of bad people.

    One of the good people is a colleague, Sayed Kashua. Last week, he published some of the most painful and powerful lines ever to appear on these pages. “I was silent,” he wrote, “knowing that my attempt at living together with others in this country was over. That the lie I’d told my children about a future in which Arabs and Jews share the country equally was over.”

    I want to apologize for those on my side who never will. I want to apologize for those on my side who suggest that you imbibe murderous vengeance with your mothers’ milk, I want to apologize for the tens of thousands of people on my side who, in anger over your side’s murder of our three teens, are promoting revenge as a value for Israeli Jews. ”

    link to haaretz.com

    • ritzl
      July 7, 2014, 10:23 am

      I don’t know, just. Folks like Burston never seem to be able to embrace the totality. They always throw a dart at the timeline, and say (as Burston is doing here) that for the past few weeks (or some other convenient timeframe) … [Israel is] “promoting revenge as a value for Israeli Jews.”

      It’s been going on for generations. Current events are just the septic effluent of a chronic and terminal illness.

      • just
        July 7, 2014, 10:33 am

        Of course you are correct, but I sense that this time with videos, the internet coverage, the incitement from so many Israeli Jewish “leaders”, the abject lying of Israeli officials, and the evidence of collective punishment, the average Israeli is facing a perfect storm… undeniable facts are finally out in the open.

      • ritzl
        July 7, 2014, 10:38 am

        Yeah, it could be a durable top-line epiphany about treating the disease v. treating the symptoms. I hope your positivity is what takes us all forward rather than my cynicism.

      • just
        July 7, 2014, 11:11 am

        either way, as long as the Occupation (and all the evil that it encompasses) ends!

      • Daniel Rich
        July 7, 2014, 5:35 pm

        @ ritzl/just,

        Social networking will be the Apartheid State’s undoing. Words are now being replaced by either still images, CCTV footage and/or cellphone/iPad/video camera’s instant uploads. The Apartheid State does have an impressive Propaganda Machine, but it is no match for the raw truth, as ugly as it may be.

    • seafoid
      July 7, 2014, 11:07 am

      He didn’t apologise for 1948 though. It was nice but he didn’t go the whole way.

      • just
        July 7, 2014, 11:09 am

        ;-)

    • can of worms
      July 7, 2014, 12:57 pm

      “I want to apologize for the tens of thousands of people on my side who, in anger over your side’s murder of our three teens, are promoting revenge as a value for Israeli Jews. ”

      – What is wrong with that sentence? –

      It insinuates that : (a)revenge is not already a ‘value’ for israeli jews. that would be unthinkable. (b) the “tens of thousands” of cries for revenge were not the explosion of a pressure-cooker of institutional racism, but only a spontaneous expression of “anger over your side’s murder of our three teens”. (c) ‘they’ (‘palestinians’? ‘hamas’?) murdered those 3 teens. (d) there is a symmetry here, despite all the layered differences.

      Ok. The bottom line -Who exactly murdered those 3 teens and what exactly happened there, liberals? False symmetry aside (wasn’t it the israeli *government* who simply decided it was “Hamas” from the get-go, and then set out on collective punishment?) do you, in fact, have any real data concerning even a single aspect of that ‘kidnapping’ story? Even just a singly flimsy one?

      …because that’s the funny thing about advanced surveillance and security technologies, they don’t tend to leave spaces for doubt. It has been what, 3 weeks, and you know two palestinian in the prison of hebron couldn’t sneeze together without the jewish surveillance team knowing about it 2 seconds after.

      Mohammed Abu Khdeir’s body was taken for an autopsy with both sides supervising the forensic tests. Do we have a similar autopsy for the 3 ‘kidnapped teens’? Do you even know, like, in what part of their bodies the 3 were shot? There were pictures of Mohammed’s body, dead. Do you have similar photos of the 3 teens? Come to think of it, is there outside evidence the 3 are actually dead and not part of some false flag for nationalist ends. Unthinkable, right. Ok, so who was it that found the 3 bodies, and what did they actually see, and what was the rest of the chain of custody?

      • Daniel Rich
        July 7, 2014, 5:44 pm

        @ can of worms,

        Q: Do we have a similar autopsy for the 3 ‘kidnapped teens’?

        R: They got the ‘Sandy Hook‘ treatment.

      • DaBakr
        July 8, 2014, 3:47 pm

        more absurdity from the hysterical set that when the news first broke about the 3 Israelis-it was all a ‘conspiracy’, then it was ‘just an excuse’ then it was a ‘reason for incitement’ then it was ‘Israel will NEVER arrest Jewsih terrorists for murdering an Arab’ AND, ‘without an Arab forensic pathologist conducting autopsy the Palestinias will NEVER get a fair autopsy’. Now that you have the ‘fair autopsy’ your back to the conspiracy of the 3 Israeli boys.
        And btw-Netanyahu never said Hamas was “directly” respnsible for the kidnapping. he said he will “hold them responsible” EXACTLY as you hold Netanyahu responsible for the so-called ‘incitement’ he created which led to the 6 Israeli terrorists committing the kidnap/murder of Khadeir. People here keep harping on the lack of evidence for Hamas involvement when its very clear that the Hamas would only claim responsibility if the 3 boys were alive and able to be used as chips for prisoner exchange. Anyone who denies that this is clear Hamas policy-stated often in their own clear language-is fooling themselves. Other then rank speculation -what other reason would two members of the Palestinian family kidnap 3 boys and shoot them and then can be heard on tape celebrating besides ‘nationalistic’ [yes, we know thats ‘code’ for Arab/Jew violence-eyeroll]. Exactly as most people assumed-but hoped it wasn’t true- the Khadeir boy was killed by Jewish terror suspects except for trouble-making rumor mongers…{which-BTW-never would have been so widely spread had not r.silverstein made such a vanity and poisen-pill driven effort to ‘break’ his dubious sources as ‘official’-which I still don;t believe they were as it couldn’t be very hard for silverstein to find one of his famous ‘sources’ to start such an inflammatory statement in the first place and even easier to watch it catch fire by both pro and anti-Zionist posters.}.. who postulated it was ‘family feuds’. So, now that the arrests and autopsy reports in-minus conspiracy-commenters here still have no problem continuing their fantasy of Israeli conspiracy in every corner and refuse to recognize when they were just plain wrong.

        So now, I am just waiting for one of MW’s reporters to post the photos from Gaza that have already been debunked as fakes [from as far back as 2009 and as far away as northern Syria] by the BBC and other outlets more slanted against Israel. But I am sure there will be an ‘excuse’ presented that attacks and denies this premise.
        link to bbc.com

        ms. dadon, the 3 boys, the two nakba day protesters, khadeir, now rockets flying over tel-aviv and all of southern Israel. Israel will be admonished to “use restraint” (where, afaict, no other nation in a similar situation would be ‘admonished’ in the first place for responding to rocket barrages. I can sense here at times a hesitance to actually ‘cheer on’ a successful rocket launch knowing that when (and its definitely a ‘when’) they finally do hit a school (they hit a school, actually) filled with children, or a hi-rise, or some other civilian target the ‘cheering’ that Palestinians will be doing will have to be defended and ‘put into perspective’ here and the billion dollar Palestinian PR machine will have to kick in to explain that its a fight for their lives and how all Israeli targets are ‘military’ and its not their leaderships ‘fault’, etc.

        And -as always-wondering what the comment section here would sound like were the IDF to start launching “harmless” missile salvos onto southern Lebanese villages, fields and empty factories or schools? I can just imagine the outrage and the joy at any potential Hezbollah force that struck back at Israel. I would be surprised if anyone denied this were the case.

      • Shingo
        July 9, 2014, 5:40 am

        more absurdity from the hysterical set that when the news first broke about the 3 Israelis-it was all a ‘conspiracy’, then it was ‘just an excuse’ then it was a ‘reason for incitement’ then it was ‘Israel will NEVER arrest Jewsih terrorists for murdering an Arab’ AND, ‘without an Arab forensic pathologist conducting autopsy the Palestinias will NEVER get a fair autopsy’.

        Yeah, a bit like the shooting of the boys on Nakba day. First it was fake because the boys fell forward, then it was fake because the footage had been edited, then the CNN footage appeared and Oren appeared on Wolf Blitzer as said it was possible the boys were not really dead and the whole thing was staged. Then when the funerals were held, the rumour was they had been shot by Palestinians.

        And btw-Netanyahu never said Hamas was “directly” respnsible for the kidnapping. he said he will “hold them responsible” EXACTLY as you hold Netanyahu responsible for the so-called ‘incitement’ he created which led to the 6 Israeli terrorists committing the kidnap/murder of Khadeir.

        Right, except that no members of Likud have been arrested or had their homes demolished.

        People here keep harping on the lack of evidence for Hamas involvement when its very clear that the Hamas would only claim responsibility if the 3 boys were alive and able to be used as chips for prisoner exchange. .

        Rubbish. Your repeating the garbage and unfounded BS that the reason for the kidnapping was to use them for exchange and that Hamas was behind it the whole time. There is not one iota of evidence to support that claim.

        Anyone who denies that this is clear Hamas policy-stated often in their own clear language-is fooling themselves.

        Anyone who denies that this is clear Israeli policy to arrest Palestinians without charge and use them as bargaining chips is fooling themselves.
        In fact, it’s beyond dispute that the government knew the 3 boys were likely dead and imposed a gag order so that Bibbi could use the pretext that he was desperately searching for them to impose collective punishment on Palestinians, re-arrest many of those released under the Shalit swap, as well and sabotage the unity agreement between Hamas and Fatah. Under these circumstances, the conspiracy theories are understandable. In fact, the public have been shown ZERO evidence.

        what other reason would two members of the Palestinian family kidnap 3 boys and shoot them and then can be heard on tape celebrating besides ‘nationalistic’ [yes, we know thats ‘code’ for Arab/Jew violence-eyeroll].

        Which undermines your claim that this had anything to do with a plot for a prisoner exchange. Why would they be celebrating shooting them when this would have meant a prisoner exchange was no longer possible?

        who postulated it was ‘family feuds’.

        commenters here still have no problem continuing their fantasy of Israeli conspiracy in every corner and refuse to recognize when they were just plain wrong.

        How do you know what happened? Has any evidence been made public?

        So now, I am just waiting for one of MW’s reporters to post the photos from Gaza that have already been debunked as fakes

        What a pathetic joke you are!! Not only is the BBC a Zionist dominated source, but the fact that some are from 2009 does not make them fake. What’s more, who the hell cares if some Twitter commenters are posting fake images? None have been posted to Mondoweiss. Zionist propagandists post crap like that all the time – should we hold you accountable for those deceptions just because you happen to be a Zionist?
        The Tweets did not come from the Palestinian leadership like the fake Auschwitz audio recordings from the Mavi Marmara, not the selectively released footage the IDf confiscated from the attack on the ship. So what did you have to say about that at the time? Nothing I bet.

        Israel will be admonished to “use restraint” (where, afaict, no other nation in a similar situation would be ‘admonished’ in the first place for responding to rocket barrages

        No they wouldn’t because no other nation would get away with claiming they have a right to or that what they are doing is a “response”, when they have they have had the territory of Gaza under siege for a decade.

        I can sense here at times a hesitance to actually ‘cheer on’ a successful rocket launch

        Where as we detect no hesistancy from you when an Israeli bomb lands in a civlian home and kills the occupants.
        You’re just demonstrating the sadism and psychotic

        And -as always-wondering what the comment section here would sound like were the IDF to start launching “harmless” missile salvos onto southern Lebanese villages

        And I wonder what the comment section at Elder of Zion n the Jpost would sound like were Hezbollah to start launching F16 sorties with 500lb and 1000lb laser guided bomb salvos onto Israeli towns and villages or Tel Aviv?
        We have no need to imagine the outrage and the joy at any Israelis strike at Gaza or Lebanon. We have the images of Israelis popping champagne corks over the hills overlooking Gaza and hundreds of women and children were bombed to death.

      • Shingo
        July 9, 2014, 6:45 am

        BTW DaBakr,

        I look forward to your comments about the fact that Netenyahu knew the teens were dead for two weeks and imposed a media blackout. Although the Israeli government knew the three boys were almost certainly dead, they initiated “Operation Brother’s Keeper” and continued lying to the public to whip up hatred and hysteria. Thousands of IDF soldiers combed the West Bank, told they were searching for the kidnapped boys: 560 Palestinians were arrested, with over 200 still being held, and over 2,000 locations – homes, public buildings, even water wells – were searched. Palestinian homes were ransacked and looted. And, naturally, Gaza – Israel’s punching bag – was mercilessly bombed, in tandem with the killing of six young Palestinians by the IDF.

        When rumors that the boys’ bodies had been found began to circulate, the Israeli authorities held a press conference to deny it, claiming that the rumors had no basis and were not reliable.’

        Even worse, they lied to the parents – after allowing them to listen to the 911 call – telling them the shots heard were “blanks”!

        How sick and manipulative is that?

      • just
        July 9, 2014, 7:57 am

        From several days ago, I got a “lesson” :

        “MahaneYehude1 says:
        July 5, 2014 at 11:22 am

        So, the GoI lied to the parents of the three Jewish youths? Why would they do such a cruel thing? To keep the PR machine in top form? To take advantage of a terrible crime?

        There is one important principle in Judaism that people here must understand: You don’t declare on someone as dead until you saw his body or until two witnesses saw his body or until you have strong proof. This give hope to people till the last minute.

        (There are very sad stories about married women that their husband was killed or disappeared and they left Agunot (singular – Agunah), meaning can’t marry to other man for the rest of her life since she is considered married woman.)

        So, please, stop to say countless of times that Israel lied about the kidnapped teens. Those who say so have no idea about Israel, Judaism and the Jewish people.”

        link to mondoweiss.net

        I’ll say it again———–they LIED.

      • Abierno
        July 8, 2014, 12:06 pm

        @ can of worms

        You ask good questions about the bodies of the kidnapped Israeli teens. For those of us who get our science from CSI TV programs, it is well known that decaying bodies off- gas methane, sodium hydrochloride and other volatile gases. The smell is extremely noxious and pervasive. That said, ostensibly the bodies were buried under a shallow pile of rocks and a volunteer noticed that the plant life appeared to be disturbed. This occurred outside of Halhoul, a city of about 22,000, about 3 miles from Hebron. Given that Shin Bet says that these teen agers were killed almost immediately after the abduction (July 12th), their bodies were exposed to temperatures in the 90’s for nearly 3 weeks. What confuses me – is that despite 100’s of IDF soldiers, Bedouin trackers, HRD dogs, civilians in the area, no one apparently noticed this highly distinctive, intense noxious odor. Reports of the volunteer who found the bodies (from Peter Lerner, spokesman for the IDF) stated that it was made by visual identification of disturbed plant life. Perhaps more knowledgeable readers can explain these contradictions.

      • Annie Robbins
        July 9, 2014, 4:27 am

        Do we have a similar autopsy for the 3 ‘kidnapped teens’?

        there were autopsies of the teens.

        link to bhol.co.il

        “There were no signs of abuse or harm to the body”

        Rabbi Yaakov Roger, a member of the Chief Rabbinate and Rabbi of ZAKA, the rabbi at the morgue of Forensic Medicine, said in a conversation with Behadrey Haredim that for the first time, since receiving the case where bodies lay in the warm weather, worms were not found on their bodies.

        “I testify that the three saints were not controlled by maggots,” says the rabbi, and is surprised. “Beyond the bullet holes there were not any signs of abuse or damage.”

        “According to doctors at the Forensic Institute, there is no scientific explanation for this phenomenon,” says the rabbi.

        it makes sense the teens were saints since their bodies were devoid of maggots, it’s the only reasonable explanation i can think of.

  4. Justpassingby
    July 7, 2014, 10:15 am

    meanwhile the idf child beating sickos running free…

    • American
      July 7, 2014, 4:23 pm

      Thats not all the IDF is doing. Beside using the gag order to give them time to rearrest and terrorize Palestines—they also used it to smash, pillage and steal from Palestines.

      link to euromid.org… Report: Israeli forces stole USD 3 million in cash, property from Palestinians during West Bank raids 2014-07-08

      Ramallah- During the course of Israel’s three-week campaign of mass arrests in the West Bank, ostensibly to search for the killers of three settlers, the Israeli military and police conducted an average of 18 raids per day into Palestinian homes, charities and businesses, stealing cash and property worth an estimated $3 million, documents a new report from the Euro-Mid Observer for Human Rights. –

      “If Israeli forces were really focused on finding the youth and their captors, why was so much personal property confiscated, usually without any type of receipt or written record to hold them accountable?” asks Ihsan Adel, a legal officer at the Euro-Mid “In an area as impoverished as the West Bank, that amount of stolen cash and property is crippling to individuals’ability to stay in business or support their families.”

      The Euro-Mid investigation documented a theft of $370,000 in cash during the 387 incursions it examined, as well as $2.5 million worth of property, including cars, computers, mobile phones and jewelry. The money and property were seized from homes, universities, health clinics, media companies and currency exchanges. Euro-Mid believes, however, that its estimates are on the low end, since families and institutions have not been able to itemize all of their missing items and many thefts have not yet been reported .

      The Israeli seizure of money and property belonging to Palestinian civilians and civic organizations is a violation of articles 27 and 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, which prohibit pillage and reprisal against civilians and their belongings.
      “Governments and human rights organizations around the world must immediately call for an independent investigation of this pillage,” says Ihsan Adel. “The international community also must join with us in demanding that the Israeli government provide Palestinians with an official means for filing claims for return of their belongings or adequate reimbursement without delay.”

      The Euro-Mid Observer for Human Rights is a nonprofit, nongovernmental human rights organization dedicated to exposing human rights violations and defending human rights. The Euro-Mid Observer for Human Rights headquarter is based in Geneva, Switzerland, with regional offices in the Middle-East. To download full report: Here>>>>>

      I cant wait for one of the zio trolls to come on here and whine about their victimhood and jewish self determination rights…the right to steal, the right to kill, the right to destroy, the right to rule, the right defecate on their neighbors.
      Their ‘rights’ are hopefully going to be recinded in the not too distant future.

      • unverified__5ilf90kd
        July 7, 2014, 8:12 pm

        As the great Robert Fisk says again and again, the IDF and the Israeli police are a complete rabble. And the Zios say that he is an anti-Semite.

  5. lysias
    July 7, 2014, 10:16 am

    I have a feeling that this is Israel’s At long last, have you left no sense of decency? moment.

  6. chocopie
    July 7, 2014, 10:22 am

    Good interview. I watched his younger sister’s face as she listened and watched her brother. What happened to Tarek is terrible, but we shouldn’t forget the trauma experienced by everyone who knows this boy, all his family and friends. I have a Palestinian American son and listening to his mother speak I could sense she has so much to say about this episode. Putting it into a few sentences during such an emotional time must be hard, but I think she did well and got her point across. I’m happy that finally some ordinary Palestinians are allowed to speak about their own experiences and be heard. It is too bad without Tarek’s US birth certificate nobody would be interested in this story. Hope he makes a full recovery, physically and emotionally.

  7. ritzl
    July 7, 2014, 10:34 am

    These tragic events are SO damaging for Israel.

    I hope the Abu Khdeirs are ready for the onslaught that will come to be camped out at their front door. Cars parked across the street. Strangers milling around at work and kids play. The omnipresent sound of camera shutters as the family comes and goes. Colonic background checks distributed to media, lawmakers, and judges.

    I hope the local police are on their side. Sumud.

  8. Kay24
    July 7, 2014, 10:53 am

    They are desperately trying to blame Tarek in some way or the other, the lying ambassador of Israel even suggested molotov cocktails, in true zionist style, however they just cannot lie their way out of this – even if the kid threw stones, the video shows he was not a threat to anyone at that time, he was handcuffed, lying flat on the ground, and now we know unconscious. So really what zionist lies can justify the brutality of these cowardly human animals? Nothing. Israel has been caught finally for the violent crimes and handling of young kids (one could only imagine how Palestinian adults are dealt with). These poor Palestinians need more video cameras. Too many have already been destroyed by the criminals in an effort to cover their behinds.

    • ckg
      July 7, 2014, 1:08 pm

      Israel’s right-wing apologists continually blame anti-Semites and leftists for the decline in Israel’s standing in the West. But we know that the real ‘culprit’ is the camera.

    • chet
      July 7, 2014, 2:05 pm

      “These poor Palestinians need more video cameras.”

      Even if IDF murders of Palestinian children are explicitly videotaped and circulated, there is no outrage in the MSM because those kids didn’t have US passports.

  9. ritzl
    July 7, 2014, 10:53 am

    I hope coverage will expand to the point where the fact that Tariq’s mother wasn’t allowed to see her minor son becomes an issue (from the WaPo video only the consular officer was allowed after 3 hours of phone calls).

    That is about as un-shared as values can get. It just isn’t done in the US. ZERO incommunicado for minors being questioned, or more to the point, being “whatevered.” Anathema, legally and morally and universally.

    So many issues to cover in this combined tragedy. Issues that resonate.

    And Barbara Boxer wants the people that did this to be able to come to the US without visas? I hope THAT legislation is dead. We don’t need any imported torturers roaming our streets, we’ve got enough already. I hope the Abu Khdeirs get the names of the people who did this.

    • chocopie
      July 7, 2014, 2:43 pm

      As a parent, I can’t imagine the agony of knowing my child has been beaten and is being held incommunicado in a Zionist prison. What torture for the parents.

  10. hophmi
    July 7, 2014, 11:06 am

    Again, this is only true if you believe in the fantasy that the NY Times has never covered these stories in depth before. They have, for years. The people who read the NY Times are not unfamiliar with the basic narratives in the Middle East. You’re not gaining any ground here.

    • seafoid
      July 7, 2014, 11:11 am

      “The people who read the NY Times are not unfamiliar with the basic narratives in the Middle East”

      There is only one narrative at the NYT when it comes to “Isreal”. They have never ever had a Palestinian covering the area.
      And Zionists don’t do reality or nuance.

      • hophmi
        July 7, 2014, 11:35 am

        “They have never ever had a Palestinian covering the area.”

        Untrue. Taghreed El-Khodary covered Gaza from 2001 to 2009.

      • Woody Tanaka
        July 7, 2014, 11:50 am

        Yes, Gaza. Gaza is only one small part of Palestine, as “Gaza” does not include either the West Bank or the areas occupied by the Zionists. Also, you failed to note that El-Khodary’s tenure with the NYT came to an end in protest to the decision of the NYT not to sack Bronner, when his son joined the I”D”F as a terrorist-in-uniform and the paper failed to remove him for his unavoidable conflict of interest.

      • hophmi
        July 7, 2014, 12:19 pm

        I didn’t fail to mention it. The allegation was that the NY Times never had a Palestinian covering Palestine. It was El-Khodary’s choice to resign over Bronner. No one forced her.

        And it’s not true about the West Bank; they may have never had a Palestinian appointed as Jerusalem correspondent, but they’ve had Palestinians with bylines before. But, hey, what’s the problem, exactly? The Guardian hasn’t had any Palestinians covering the West Bank either. They’ve been plenty critical, whether the last name is Goldenburg or McGreal. The Jerusalem Post employs Khaled Abu Toameh, a Zionist Palestinian. So maybe you should stop using the stupid labels.

      • Woody Tanaka
        July 7, 2014, 1:34 pm

        “I didn’t fail to mention it. The allegation was that the NY Times never had a Palestinian covering Palestine.”

        Yes, you did. Because the context was in the NYT’s twisted reporting, and the reason for El-Khodary’s departure affirms that context, while you were attempting to use her tenure to rebut it.

        “No one forced her. ”

        Nonsense. The NYT forced her when it made an unacceptable determination to maintain Bronner after his kid’s decision to join the IOF thugs inescapably cast Bronner in a conflict of interest situation, making his wholly inappropriate there.

        “they may have never had a Palestinian appointed as Jerusalem correspondent”

        Which is a problem, seeing as how the city is planted in the heart of Palestine.

        “But, hey, what’s the problem, exactly?”

        The coverage of the conflict by the NYT aids and abets the criminality of the Zionist government by creating a false picture of what is happening to the Palestinians. That’s what the problem is.

      • Mikhael
        July 7, 2014, 1:43 pm

        hophmi says:
        July 7, 2014 at 12:19 pm
        The Jerusalem Post employs Khaled Abu Toameh, a Zionist Palestinian.

        I wouldn’t go so far as to call abu Toameh “Zionist,” and as far as I know, he doesn’t regard himself as such. He’s an Arab who is a citizen of Israel and is rational enough to realize that Israel’s democratic society offers him personal freedoms that he would not have in any other country nearby and he is honest enough to say so. I’m not sure that he has an opinion about whether Jews worldwide constitute one nation whose historic homeland is in Eretz Yisrael (which would be necessary for him to be a Zionist or a pro-Zionist); he simply supports Israel as the country in which he has citizenship and which offers him and his Arab national minority community the best options for a decent life in the region.

      • seafoid
        July 7, 2014, 2:10 pm

        Why does the nyt need jews to explain the occupation?
        Minority best life in region yada yada. Why has there never been a senior Palestinian minister in the Israeli governmen? Why are the palestinians in israel so poor compared to secular jews? Same reason as thenyt has a jew to explain the occupation. The system is run by jews for jews.

      • hophmi
        July 7, 2014, 2:10 pm

        “Because the context was in the NYT’s twisted reporting, and the reason for El-Khodary’s departure affirms that context, while you were attempting to use her tenure to rebut it.”

        Oh please. I don’t deny that she left or the reason.

        “The NYT forced her when it made an unacceptable determination to maintain Bronner after his kid’s decision to join the IOF thugs inescapably cast Bronner in a conflict of interest situation, making his wholly inappropriate there.”

        BS. If your employer makes a decision you don’t like, and you leave, you were not forced out.

        “The coverage of the conflict by the NYT aids and abets the criminality of the Zionist government by creating a false picture of what is happening to the Palestinians.”

        You can complain about the coverage until the cows come home and it is not going to make you more right.

      • jenin
        July 7, 2014, 2:23 pm

        Mikhael, why don’t you talk about the so-called “decent life” offered to Palestinians by Israel to my uncle, who moved to Kuwait because he was married to a Palestinian from another area and they couldn’t live together?

        Or tell that to my father, who endured years of horrific abuse, imprisonment (for no reason) under the Israeli occupation, and who was unable to get to the West Bank via ben gurion to visit his 90-year-old mother in 2008, held in detention for 3 days, strip searched and humiliated, and sent back to the US (he’s a professor at an Ivy League university, by the way–and has never been accused of any crime).

        or my aunt with breast cancer, who died at a checkpoint on her way to the hospital because the soldiers of your beloved “democracy” wouldn’t let her through.

      • Woody Tanaka
        July 7, 2014, 2:41 pm

        “Oh please. I don’t deny that she left or the reason. ”

        No, you didn’t address the issue at all. You used her name as supporting an inference, while failing to address the facts that demonstrate the falsity of that inference. That’s a lie, however you slice it.

        “If your employer makes a decision you don’t like, and you leave, you were not forced out. ”

        Nonsense. It’s a form of constructive termination.

        “You can complain about the coverage until the cows come home and it is not going to make you more right.”

        I don’t need to complain about the coverage to be right. I am right.

      • hophmi
        July 7, 2014, 3:40 pm

        “No, you didn’t address the issue at all. You used her name as supporting an inference, while failing to address the facts that demonstrate the falsity of that inference. That’s a lie, however you slice it.”

        In what universe? The question was whether the Times had ever employed a Palestinian to cover Palestine. They have. End of discussion for me. If the question was about whether the Times had employed a Palestinian who left because she was upset over the Times continued employment of Ethan Bronner, and I denied that fact, THEN it would be a lie.

        “Nonsense. It’s a form of constructive termination.”

        LOL. No, it is not a form of constructive termination. That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard in my life.

        “I don’t need to complain about the coverage to be right. I am right.”

        Yeah, Woody, you’re about as right as fireworks at a funeral.

      • Woody Tanaka
        July 7, 2014, 3:56 pm

        “In what universe? The question was whether the Times had ever employed a Palestinian to cover Palestine.”

        No, the issue is whether there is only one narrative at the NYT and why. The Bronner affair demonstrates, in part, the why. Your mentioning El-Khodary without discussing her departure and the reasons for it was a clear lie of omission.

        “End of discussion for me.”

        Yes, and that is the problem. You spin the facts and leave out those that go against what you are trying to imply.

        “If the question was about whether the Times had employed a Palestinian who left because she was upset over the Times continued employment of Ethan Bronner, and I denied that fact, THEN it would be a lie.”

        No, the issue was about the narrative of the NYT and what causes that. In response to that, you lied.

        “LOL. No, it is not a form of constructive termination. That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard in my life. ”

        I doubt it. You’ve no doubt heard yourself argue before. And behavior which is outside ethical journalistic practices (as was the case here) can be grounds for labeling this a constructive termination.

      • DaBakr
        July 8, 2014, 8:01 pm

        and a rare bird he is too. zionist or not.

      • Daniel Rich
        July 7, 2014, 5:49 pm

        @ hophmi,

        Report back when the NYT is run by Palestinians. Thank you.

      • hophmi
        July 7, 2014, 6:12 pm

        “Report back when the NYT is run by Palestinians”

        Who runs it now?

      • DaBakr
        July 8, 2014, 6:12 pm

        NYT also had Anthony Shadid as ME correspondent for years. I doubt after sustaining a bullet wound from the IDK in Gaza he only had “one narrative”

  11. seafoid
    July 7, 2014, 11:25 am

    Very impressive stuff from his mother in the video. Electronic intifada also did great work. For so long the bots controlled the message but that day is over now wa al hamdulallah.

  12. lysias
    July 7, 2014, 11:27 am

    There is no statement on the killing and beating of Palestinian boys on the White House Web site, at least so far, whereas there is a presidential statement, dated June 30, about the finding of the bodies of the three Jewish boys:

    On behalf of the American people I extend my deepest and heartfelt condolences to the families of Eyal Yifrach, Gilad Shaar, and Naftali Fraenkel – who held Israeli and American citizenship. As a father, I cannot imagine the indescribable pain that the parents of these teenage boys are experiencing. The United States condemns in the strongest possible terms this senseless act of terror against innocent youth. From the outset, I have offered our full support to Israel and the Palestinian Authority to find the perpetrators of this crime and bring them to justice, and I encourage Israel and the Palestinian Authority to continue working together in that effort. I also urge all parties to refrain from steps that could further destabilize the situation. As the Israeli people deal with this tragedy, they have the full support and friendship of the United States.

  13. ejran
    July 7, 2014, 11:29 am

    “The world won’t say a thing. The world will say we’re defending.
    -Aren’t you afraid of the world, Bibi?
    – I know what America is. America is something that can easily be moved. Moved to the right correction… They won’t get in our way. They won’t get in our way.”

    (13 years ago).

    link to youtube.com

  14. ahadhaadam
    July 7, 2014, 12:38 pm

    Two irreversible blows to Hasbara in one week – the immolation murder of Mohammed Abu Khdeir and the brutal beating of his cousin. These are blows that cannot be overestimated and Israel knows that. They also expose the disparity in value that Israel attaches to Jewish versus non-Jewish life, which makes Israel’s apartheid bare for all to see.

    Therefore it is reasonable to assume that Israel will do its best to sideline and obfuscate these stories as they tried yesterday already with the “revelation” of the arrest of Shelly Dadon’s suspected murderer. Nothing can be precluded from the expected reaction of a wounded bully, including the possibility of igniting the entire region in order to make those explosively damaging stories disappear from headlines. After all, the entire Zionist narrative and years and decades of Hasbara are at stake.

    • seafoid
      July 7, 2014, 4:24 pm

      A bad week for hasbara alright. The face Israel showed the world was real ugly.

      • DaBakr
        July 8, 2014, 6:25 pm

        maybe a bad week for Israel but like other nations-e.g. -as the US had to deal with its Columbine incidents, Rodney King beatings and Sandy Hook-they did not collapse as a nation and people didn’t abandon the foundation of the country as a good and strong nation. Israel will take stock and inventory -as it has always done from the left-wing Levy’s to the right-wing Glicks-and figure out how to make itself better. I don’t think there are that many nations as self-critical as is Israel and its only here and sites like it where predictions that its a sinking ship are common. Israel is hardly ‘sinking’ as any scholar of economics and world politics can explain. The numbers are actually strong in favor of Israel being mostly, if not wholly accepted in the international community.

      • Shingo
        July 9, 2014, 3:52 am

        they did not collapse as a nation and people didn’t abandon the foundation of the country as a good and strong nation.

        What a shame that Israel is neither good nor strong.

        I don’t think there are that many nations as self-critical as is Israel

        That’s odd. I don’t think there are any nations as pathologically sensitive and irrational to criticism.

        Israel is hardly ‘sinking’ as any scholar of economics and world politics can explain.

        Which scholars might they be?

        The numbers clearly are not in favor of Israel being accepted in the international community. It’s more isolated than it has ever been and it’s only going to get worse.

    • Shingo
      July 7, 2014, 4:52 pm

      Avtually 3 blows.

      The imprisined of this boy whine he faces charges whe the anomals who best him are few, even while Israel already admits they broke the law

    • Kay24
      July 7, 2014, 4:53 pm

      Good comment. You make good points. They are on the defensive in the PR department, now that they have to answer to many, many questions, they try to lie and dodge, but I think every one knows their game. As for Hasbara, even they with their brainwashed training, cannot defend the indefensible, therefore as usual, only come up with lame insults.

  15. jenin
    July 7, 2014, 1:21 pm

    I hope now Americans will begin to realize that this is the sort of thing that happens to Palestinians of all ages all of the time, this just became a big story because he’s American. and that Israel’s claims that the Palestinians were engaged in violent behavior usually are exaggerated or flat-out lies

  16. Mikhael
    July 7, 2014, 1:32 pm

    Unfortunately, police/riot control types sometimes have a tendency to get testy when stones are thrown at them. In European democracies people get beat down without even engaging in any violent provocations like throwing stones at police:

    Manc kids get beat up by riot cops for riding their bikes:

    link to youtube.com

    And in Athens, you can get a beat-down for being Algerian:

    link to greece.greekreporter.com

    No front page headlines in the American media for these incidents, though.

    • James North
      July 7, 2014, 2:03 pm

      Hasbara Central is sending over reinforcements. They recognize this is a huge crisis.

      • Citizen
        July 7, 2014, 2:24 pm

        They better; it’s been on MSNBC today constantly; it’s more objective coverage than normal. It still provides no context except the three Iraeli teens murders, making it look like the Palestinians “started it.” Nothing yet even remotely echoing the documentary from Australia covering how Israel abuses Palestinian kids daily, nightly to aid its long military occupation of the Palestinian people, their crime–born non-Jewish in Israel/Palestine. Where’s Maddow on this?

      • Kay24
        July 7, 2014, 5:02 pm

        Maddow only attacks the right wingers here. Let’s not expect Chris Matthews to be honest about this either, he made a few mysterious trips to Israel, and is an undeclared zionists, like the others. I would like to see at least Jon Stewart cover this, but I should be realistic as to the extent of that coverage.
        It is at a moment like this, the zionist media is exposed.

        I must add that about an hour ago, CNN’s Jake Tapper covered this, and interviewed Bibi’s spokesperson,( Regev?) he did ask him a few good questions, and added the fact that international bodies had reported that many of the crimes by the illegal settlers had ended up with most criminals getting away with it, and Regevs lame answer was all about how democratic they are.

      • DaBakr
        July 8, 2014, 6:33 pm

        lol. right. he is engaging in ‘aboutism’. can’t point anything even semi-reasonable or relevant w/o being hit on the head with the ‘hasbara central’ charge. Isn’t this the equivalent of being accused of anti-semitism every time one criticizes Israeli policy?

    • ritzl
      July 7, 2014, 2:17 pm

      Classic. You all just can’t get it right (…because it can’t be gotten “right”).

      Once again you overlook the systematic, meticulous, routine, generations-old and ongoing violence of the Occupation.

      If this was a one-off or a few times a year event you’d have a point. But it’s not. It’s daily. It’s NORMAL in Israel (and apparently to you) and an aberration everywhere (that claims to be a democracy) else. It’s just what Israel does, darlin’.

    • Citizen
      July 7, 2014, 2:30 pm

      @ Mikhael
      Why do you add to hasbara whataboutism? The US gives Israel more free stuff than to any other country, by far, with interest, and with no strings attached; additionally, US politicians constantly tell us Americans that Israel and US have the same values.
      This makes it most imperative that Americans do not support the rogue state of Israel.

      • Mooser
        July 7, 2014, 4:11 pm

        Citizen, Hasbara Central never seems to supply these guys with a list of the Hasbara techniques which are way past their sell-by date, so each one goes through every one, including all the whataboutery.
        Such a feeling of deja nue I got when several people used the “but Jews don’t do that” argument. Like an sacred relic brought out for a viewing on a special occasion.

      • radkelt
        July 8, 2014, 12:58 am

        Another classic Mooserism “deja nu”, I love it!

      • Mooser
        July 8, 2014, 4:43 pm

        I’m sorry, did I make a spieling mistake?

      • DaBakr
        July 8, 2014, 6:44 pm

        @moos
        funny, must have missed the “jews wouldn’t do that” commentary-unless your scraping the bottom of the genetic barrel. But then you wouldn’t want to judge either the Palestinians, their supporters or the Israelis by their most radical , religious and undereducated elements, right?

        You do realize that “hasbara”-at least the way you use the term- is just another word for propaganda [there is a word in hebrew for propaganda which is not interchangeable with hasbara] which the anti-Zionist blogs like MW engage in on every level that equals or even bests Israeli propaganda.

        you would be the propaganda expert they call on that specializes in the supposedly ‘Jewish’ wise-cracking vitriolic come-back. How much do they pay you?

    • tree
      July 7, 2014, 2:43 pm

      Unfortunately, police/riot control types sometimes have a tendency to get testy when stones are thrown at them.

      So show us one instance where Israeli police or the IDF beat a Jewish kid who was allegedly throwing stones. You can’t. Because Jewish kids do throw stones, but the “police/riot control types” never beat a Jewish kid senseless. They’d be facing even more massive Jewish riots if they did to a Jewish kid what they did to Tariq Khdeir.

    • Woody Tanaka
      July 7, 2014, 3:35 pm

      “Unfortunately, police/riot control types sometimes have a tendency to get testy when stones are thrown at them”

      And this boy was not doing anything wrong. So these terrorists-in-uniform engaged in this terrorist act for no reason other than he was Palestinian.

      • DaBakr
        July 8, 2014, 6:54 pm

        I don’t see the point in arguing what he was doing before he was knocked down and out as there is no rationale for kicking a kid in the head except sanctioned brutality and it should be and will be rooted out. It won’t happen overnight. it took a long time to root out most (not all) of the rank corruption and brutality that spanned the 40s-90’s in the LAPD. I don’t mean this a ‘aboutism’ either. I mean that attitudes like brutality become entrenched and are not rooted out by dealing with the guy that did the kicking. Everybody in Israel knows a big police scandal is in the works but is being shuffled in importance due to new ‘timing’ factors. It won’t be focusing on ‘policy’ per se but it will definitely be used as a factor to bring in new leadership.

    • Shingo
      July 7, 2014, 4:54 pm

      Unfortunately, police/riot control types sometimes have a tendency to get testy when stones are thrown at them.

      Unfortunately, most types have a tendency to get testy when bombs are dropped on them , or bullets fired at them, or their famy gets murdered , or their land stolen or they are ethnically cleansed .

    • Shingo
      July 7, 2014, 5:05 pm

      And in Athens, you can get a beat-down for being Algerian:

      Not is it in Algeria when it happens, nor does the White House defend Greek violence as self defense.

      Hasbara fail!

    • Kay24
      July 7, 2014, 5:11 pm

      And in hateland, you find Israeli troops not getting testy at all, in fact when the settler thugs throw stones at Palestinians, they do absolutely nothing. Stop with the justifications. No front page headlines for this in the American media. I must say Jerusalem Post had the decency to cover this.

      link to youtube.com

    • justicewillprevail
      July 7, 2014, 5:14 pm

      Just ridiculous. if you think that the ‘manc kids’ were getting beat up for riding bikes, you clearly have no idea about the rioting in English cities in 2011. if you think there is any parallel to Israel you are out of your mind, but clearly that won’t stop you trying. Yes, surprise surprise, there are riots and grievances against authorities elsewhere. If you think there is any similarity to the brutal police and military treatment of Palestinians, which is routine and ongoing for 50 plus years of occupation, then your straw clutching is even more banal and stupid than it appears. When you haven’t got a leg to stand on, trying to borrow a straw won’t make your argument stand up. And guess what – it falls over.

    • Shingo
      July 7, 2014, 5:18 pm

      In European democracies people get beat down without even engaging in any violent provocations like throwing stones at police

      In the occupied territories, Palestinians have always been beated down without even engaging in any violent provocations like throwing stones at police.
      link to theguardian.com

      • RoHa
        July 7, 2014, 8:05 pm

        People get beaten down, and then have been beaten down. The violence against the people is bad enough without adding an assault on irregular verbs.

  17. seanmcbride
    July 7, 2014, 2:26 pm

    hophmi,

    Oh please.

    link to mondoweiss.net

    75 hits.

    What’s up with that?

    • hophmi
      July 7, 2014, 3:34 pm

      It’s an expression of sarcasm when people here say things that are particularly ridiculous, which, apparently, is quite often. A great example is today, when seafoid claimed, completely incorrectly, that the NY Times had never employed a Palestinian correspondent to cover Palestine, and I pointed out that, in fact, they had from 2001-09. Woody Tanaka is calling me a liar because I didn’t mention the reason she left, as if I was obligated to do so to answer the question of whether the Times had ever employed a Palestinian to cover Palestine.

      That’s an example of an oh please moment for me. It’s transparently stupid, and transparently in bad faith.

      • seanmcbride
        July 7, 2014, 3:58 pm

        hophmi,

        It’s an expression of sarcasm when people here say things that are particularly ridiculous, which, apparently, is quite often….

        That’s an example of an oh please moment for me. It’s transparently stupid, and transparently in bad faith.

        Ok — thanks for clarifying that. So you are expressing exasperation at having to deal with people — mostly critics of Israeli policies — whom you consider to be stupid.

        Also check out the large number of your comments which use variations on the terms dumb, idiot, moron, nonsense, ridiculous and stupid:

        1. dumb link to mondoweiss.net

        2. idiot link to mondoweiss.net

        3. moron link to mondoweiss.net

        4. nonsense link to mondoweiss.net

        5. ridiculous link to mondoweiss.net

        6. stupid link to mondoweiss.net

        There are several ways one could interpret this pattern.

      • Mooser
        July 7, 2014, 4:16 pm

        “There are several ways one could interpret this pattern.”

        Maybe, but I think they all point to one obvious conclusion. Hophmi is being held prisoner at Mondowiess Towers, chained to a computer, and forced to read and comment at Mondoweiss. Can you think of any other reason why he can’t seem to leave a website he thinks is published under false pretenses, and whose commentors aren’t worth talking to?
        It’s a case of human bondage, I tell ya! Hold on Hophmi, I’ll bust you out!

      • seanmcbride
        July 7, 2014, 4:32 pm

        Hey, Mooser, it’s good to hear your unique voice once again, and I send you good wishes.

      • hophmi
        July 7, 2014, 5:07 pm

        Look Sean, I know you think you’re very clever here. You’re not; in many of these comments, you’ve highlighted instances where others had used these words and I was responding to them. So before you start finding patterns, you might want to spend a little time figuring out when I said something, and when I was quoting someone else’s statement.

        In any event, I’m one guy in a room of, oh, dozens of people, some of whom abuse me here on a regular basis with, unfortunately, the collusion of the moderators who, in complete violation of the comment policy, let virtually all of this abusive stuff through, including when there is literally nothing in the comment other than some juvenile insult directed at me. They call me names, accusing me of everything from being a racist to a Nazi to a supremacist to being an antisemite, to being a paid informant of some kind.

        I do find some of the arguments here poor from an intellectual standpoint, particularly in the tendency here of many to see everything in black and white, and I find, as in other places on the net, that people generally just keep repeating the same things over and over again, which is par for the course in a place where alternative viewpoints are mostly absent, and every comment that toes the party line can count on a collection of dittos from others. I don’t take any of it personally, except when people do stuff like trying to publicly identify me presumably so that I’ll be too intimidated to post here, which I consider a safety thing for a variety of reasons.

        But considering the amount of abuse I take here, I give much, much less than I get. Investigate that pattern.

        “seafoid’s statement was made in the context of arguing about the NYT’s having a single narrative.”

        Which is just simply not true, and which you support with nothing. You’re welcome to search the Times archives. Do a search of Palestine, Palestinians, Ali Abunimah, West Bank. You’ll find the Palestinian narrative represented. Look Woody, I’m familiar with the world of media monitoring, and whether it’s pro-Palestinian people or pro-Israel people, I find almost everything they say about the NY Times to be incorrect. The Times presents both perspectives. They feature adherents of both sides on their op-ed page.

        Media monitoring is an industry. People on both sides thrive on spending their day doing close readings of major newspapers to discern whatever obsession it is. It is laughable what they come up with sometimes. Everybody has some angle. Phil’s is to proclaim the coming of Messiah every time the Times writes some sympathetic article, as if it has never happened before. I totally understand where it comes from, but I have to laugh about it because most of it is just silly. Look that one up Sean. I use silly a lot. There’s a lot of silliness here.

        Mostly, it’s a giant waste of time, and I am sure journalists cannot stand it. That’s why I don’t get involved in a whole lot of it, even though I know people involved in the effort. I do find abhorrent the idea that Jewish journalists are somehow suspect in the Middle East, a view that seems to have many adherents here.

      • Woody Tanaka
        July 7, 2014, 5:27 pm

        “I don’t take any of it personally, except when people do stuff like trying to publicly identify me presumably so that I’ll be too intimidated to post here, which I consider a safety thing for a variety of reasons.”

        Intimidate? No. Don’t flatter yourself. It’s just busting stones because you freak out about it.

        “Media monitoring is an industry.”

        This isn’t about media monitoring. If your response to seafoid was to point out El-Khodary was an employee, but note that she left under circumstances that would have buttressed the notion that the NYT has a single pro-Israeli perspective, even if you expressed your disagreement with that conclusion, that would have been one thing. That would have been intellectually honest. Instead we got more of your usual crap of half truths, false implications and fevered defense of anything Zionist.

        “I do find abhorrent the idea that Jewish journalists are somehow suspect in the Middle East, a view that seems to have many adherents here.”

        Only in your mind. What people find suspect is the “paper of record” constantly sending reporters who are Zionists or who have already taken sides in the conflict before their sent to cover it, and when it’s only pro-Israel people who are hired.

      • Kris
        July 7, 2014, 6:00 pm

        @hophmi: “I don’t take any of it personally, except when people do stuff like trying to publicly identify me presumably so that I’ll be too intimidated to post here, which I consider a safety thing for a variety of reasons.”

        Over the past few years there have been countless warnings that anonymity on the internet is a dangerous illusion, hophmi. Rather than thinking that we really can hide behind fake names, we shouldn’t publish comments that we would be ashamed of if our real names were published, too.

      • Daniel Rich
        July 7, 2014, 6:13 pm

        @ hophmi,

        Given the length of your reply [I’m being very PC here], sean must have hit a raw nerve.

        One question though; how do you explain and justify being morally dishonest to yourself [as you’re a well educated individual]?

      • DaBakr
        July 8, 2014, 7:08 pm

        wow. surprised this comment made it. Usually-when someone gets this ‘real’ about internet blog sites I don’t read it here. (and I don’t read it on pro-Zionist blogs either.) I guess these commenters are correct about one thing-we both must be hired from ‘hasbara central’ and/or are the same person (not to be insulting) because I would have written something a lot like this if I had thought of it first

      • Woody Tanaka
        July 7, 2014, 4:21 pm

        ” A great example is today, when seafoid claimed, completely incorrectly, that the NY Times had never employed a Palestinian correspondent to cover Palestine, and I pointed out that, in fact, they had from 2001-09. Woody Tanaka is calling me a liar because I didn’t mention the reason she left, as if I was obligated to do so to answer the question of whether the Times had ever employed a Palestinian to cover Palestine. ”

        And you’re lying about this again. seafoid’s statement was made in the context of arguing about the NYT’s having a single narrative. The fact that they had a Palestinian for 8 years covering Gaza does not rebut that statement when the reason she left lends credence to the notion that the NYT has a single narrative.

        Yes, you were obligated, because you knew or should have known that the implication that the bare factual assertion would have was a false one.

      • hophmi
        July 7, 2014, 6:10 pm

        “Intimidate? No. Don’t flatter yourself. It’s just busting stones because you freak out about it.”

        OK Woody. You’re not the only one here who’s abusive, and that’s a hell of a way to “bust stones.”

        This is another in a series of incidents where you impute motives to me that aren’t there, I clarify for you what I meant, and you continue to tell me I meant something else. I responded to the claim that the Times had never had a Palestinian cover Palestine. I did not think it relevant that she left because that is not the issue I was addressing. I was not denying or ignoring that issue. I’m sorry if you think I was, but for the fourth or fifth time now. I WASN’T. Do not repeat again that I was.

        “What people find suspect is the “paper of record” constantly sending reporters who are Zionists or who have already taken sides in the conflict before their sent to cover it, and when it’s only pro-Israel people who are hired.”

        What side did Jodi Rudoren take on the conflict before she went to cover it? What side did Chris Hedges take? Was he too pro-Israel for you?

        I think you’re a little naive about this Woody. It’s largely because they’re Jewish that the pro-Palestinian movement doesn’t like them. This piece by Alison Weir makes exactly that point:

        “The most recent person to be chosen for this powerful post at arguably the most influential newspaper in the United States is Jodi Rudoren. She takes the place of Ethan Bronner, who was preceded by Steven Erlanger, who was preceded by James Bennet, who was preceded by Deborah Sontag. All, according to an Israeli report, are Jewish.”

        Weir wrote this before Rudoren wrote a word of reportage. She didn’t bother to mention that Sontag was one of the first American writers to challenge the Israeli narrative regarding the collapse of peace talks in 2000. She didn’t bother to examine the upbringing of any of these people. She didn’t compare their work with the work of other Jewish and non-Jewish correspondents at other American newspapers. Would you accept this for any other group? Would you argue that African-Americans shouldn’t be assigned to cover inner-city neighborhoods? Would you argue that Arab reporters shouldn’t cover Egypt?

        It’s disgusting.

      • Woody Tanaka
        July 7, 2014, 7:05 pm

        “This is another in a series of incidents where you impute motives to me that aren’t there, I clarify for you what I meant, and you continue to tell me I meant something else.”

        I am doing no such thing. I am saying that your initial answer was evasive and promoted by inference a false conclusion, because you’re trying to narrow things beyond reason, rather than addressing the larger point, because you think it benefits your side.

        “What side did Jodi Rudoren take on the conflict before she went to cover it? ”

        Well, if Jeffrey Goldberg will vouch for her, then I’d say she wasn’t a neutral person. (And being a Hebrew speaker, how can she expect to understand the other side first hand?)

        “It’s largely because they’re Jewish that the pro-Palestinian movement doesn’t like them. ”

        No, as Alison’s great article demonstrates, it’s because they’ve only been Jews and bureaus chiefs for the past few decades, because the coverage is pro-Israeli and because, after the fact, they admit that they tilted the reporting as much.

        “Weir wrote this before Rudoren wrote a word of reportage.”

        Yes, and she wrote the article to decry the fact that the pattern appeared to be continuing, and with the hopes (since dashed, I believe) that Rudoren would be different.

        “She didn’t bother to mention that Sontag was one of the first American writers to challenge the Israeli narrative regarding the collapse of peace talks in 2000.”

        Not specifically, no. But she did reference Sontag’s work, very fairly, I thought, “It’s interesting to note that the Times’ only other female Jerusalem bureau chief, Deborah Sontag, often provided exemplary coverage; her term seems to have ended early.”

        “Would you accept this for any other group?”

        Define “this”… because if you’re saying, “would I accept a decades-long string of assignments that take one side of a conflict” then no, I wouldn’t, but you don’t seem to care, because you don’t want to look at the actual results of what these people are doing.

        “Would you argue that African-Americans shouldn’t be assigned to cover inner-city neighborhoods? Would you argue that Arab reporters shouldn’t cover Egypt?”

        Neither of these are relevant in any way. I think that these beats should be assigned without regard for the background of the people. But I also would not stick my head in the sand and pretend that if people from the same exact background are, again and again and again assigned to a position, without fail, for decades, that there is no connection between the two. Especially when it is the site of an ethno-religious conflict and that unbroken string of bureau chiefs belongs to one of the ethno-religious blocks.

      • Annie Robbins
        July 7, 2014, 8:56 pm

        Would you argue that African-Americans shouldn’t be assigned to cover inner-city neighborhoods?

        not to insert myself into this argument, but this analogy doesn’t work wrt Rudoren covering events in the occupied palestinian territories which include east jerusalem.

        Would you argue that Arab reporters shouldn’t cover Egypt?

        palestinians are as native to palestine as Arabs are to Egypt. so why aren’t you asking why the nyt doesn’t have a palestinian bureau chief operating out of that territory? if that’s your argument hops.

      • justicewillprevail
        July 7, 2014, 5:31 pm

        An expression of sarcasm? That isn’t sarcasm, which involves some irony. It’s a rather weak rhetorical attempt, like a little boy standing on a crate, to puff oneself up and sound so superior to the now apparently people of lesser intellectual height than him. Patronising, in other words. Of course, it doesn’t really work when everybody can see the crate and the relative height of the boy in question. Especially as the hope is to deflect from the obvious weakness of the arguments offered, and like all little boys, cry with great conviction, and a desperate hope, ‘oh, everybody knows that’.

      • hophmi
        July 7, 2014, 6:11 pm

        Thanks justice. Little children are usually people who have trouble dealing with perspectives other than their own, and they shout and scream like the little children that they are when they are challenged. That’s a good description of how many people here relate to me, including you, apparently.

      • Mooser
        July 7, 2014, 7:35 pm

        “That’s a good description of how many people here relate to me, including you, apparently.”

        If only you could get away, Hophmi! Get a week off, maybe travel….no, Phil would just chain an I-phone to your wrist.
        Must be awful, being chained to a website you don’t like. Makes me angry. Free Hophmi!!

      • DaBakr
        July 8, 2014, 7:42 pm

        to the folks here that sarcastically comment that pro-Zionists are not forced to comment here and could easily go away (which I am inferring is what they are implying you do) I have always noted that anti-Zionist blogs often have rules of non-engagement with Zionists due to the ‘wanting-to-play-in-their-own=sandbox] syndromne. But at the very least, it seems that as long as basic civility and politeness is adhered to by pro-Zionist-their comments are tolerated. But then most of the time they are simply used as the ‘pitch’ for the regulars to bat out of the park. There is very little ‘engagement’ here except for the ocassional ‘just vs. citizen’ type Chiomsky debate.

        e.g. There was a story a few weeks ago about the Palestinian ambassador/consul to London who made a statement advocating for a treaty to be signed with more Palestinian compromise on ror and Jerusalem with the issues to be revisited after treaty is signed at certain intervals. There were ‘jokes’ by some about how long he would ‘live’ .But in fact he was immediately recalled to Palestine by PA officials and I’ve heard nothing about it since. I wanted to see it discussed here how extremely ‘liberal’ Palestinian voices are not tolerated well in Palestinian society the way extreme left like GLevy are in Israel. But I find pro-Palestn blogs echo standard view of Palestinian society

      • Shingo
        July 8, 2014, 9:09 pm

        I have always noted that anti-Zionist blogs often have rules of non-engagement with Zionists due to the ‘wanting-to-play-in-their-own=sandbox] syndromne.

        I have always noted that Zionist blogs are the one with the rules of non-engagement with anti-Zionists due to the ‘wanting-to-play-in-their-own=sandbox] syndromne having been banned from a few of them. Do you honestly think that anyone of us would be afforded any basic civility and politeness over at the Elder of Zion blog? The last time I was there, I was complimented for being fat and ugly, a Jew hater etc. and some of the more hostile participants began sniffing through my Facebook page and commenting on my wife and kids.

        On other blogs, pro Israeli commenters managed to hack into the blog and post comments using my name to discredit me. Other times, they came up with variations of my name. I have never experienced anything close to the level of vitriol and spite and dirty ticks Zionists resort to.

        Hophmi has been on this blog a long time, and while we disagree with him on most occasions, none of us have called for him to be banned. Same with Yonah.

        There is very little ‘engagement’ here except for the ocassional ‘just vs. citizen’ type Chiomsky debate.

        That’s because the quality of the arguments from the pro Zionist camp are so weak and vacuous. Just look at the drew posted by MY1, Double Standard and Pat. I mean seriously DaBakr, even you must feel an tinge of embarrassment at their efforts.

        e.g. There was a story a few weeks ago about the Palestinian ambassador/consul to London who made a statement advocating for a treaty to be signed with more Palestinian compromise on ror and Jerusalem with the issues to be revisited after treaty is signed at certain intervals.

        Why? It was clearly a stupid idea given Israel’s failure to stick to any treaties. Who in their right mind would believe that Israel would revisit any issue unless it was to bend it entirely to their advantage at the expense of Palestinians?

        I wanted to see it discussed here how extremely ‘liberal’ Palestinian voices are not tolerated well in Palestinian society the way extreme left like GLevy are in Israel. But I find pro-Palestn blogs echo standard view of Palestinian society

        I think it’s funny how Levy is regarded as extreme left. It kinda shows how extreme right Israeli society has become.

      • RoHa
        July 8, 2014, 10:02 pm

        “There is very little ‘engagement’ here except for the ocassional ‘just vs. citizen’ type Chiomsky debate.”

        I repeatedly call on Zionists to present counter-arguments to, or at least criticisms of, my arguments. They almost never do. (Yonah sometimes has a go.)

        I keep asking for arguments and explanations for Zionist claims. Seldom do they come.

        By and large, it is the Zionists who refuse to engage. They toss a slogan at us, and then, after it has been shown to be drivel, toss it again as though nothing had been said about it. We have no partner for “engagement”.

  18. Citizen
    July 7, 2014, 2:41 pm

    Very disproportion number of Palestinian versus Jewish israeli kids murdered since 2000: link to rememberthesechildren.org
    US taxpayers fund this.

  19. jenin
    July 7, 2014, 3:14 pm

    is it just me or are there more hasbarists (not sure if that’s a real word!) on this site these days? maybe a sign of Israel’s desperation…

    • Mooser
      July 7, 2014, 4:17 pm

      “(not sure if that’s a real word!)”

      I like hasbaratchnik.

    • DaBakr
      July 8, 2014, 7:44 pm

      you really think this site would be better without any oppositional pov? i doubt it. you would loose your source of softball pitches that you can then bat and swing away at.

  20. DoubleStandard
    July 7, 2014, 3:48 pm

    link to jpost.com

    Doesn’t interest the anti-israel media as much, but important anyway…

    • jenin
      July 7, 2014, 4:43 pm

      actually, how is it important? how is the ethnicity of the murderer important absent any evidence whatsoever that the crime was “nationalistic?”

      and take a look at the appalling anti-Arab racism in the comments section of that article. Does it make you proud of your fellow Zionists?

    • Shingo
      July 7, 2014, 5:21 pm

      Doesn’t interest the anti-israel media as much, but important anyway…

      Right, so according to the link, According to the Shin Bet, on June 16 it arrested Hassin Yussef Hasin Halifa, a taxi driver from Ibillin in the Galilee, on suspicion of carrying out the murder on the night of May 1.

      Then they took him in for questioning where he miraculously confessed – probably under torture.

      Meanwhile, the murderers of the two boys killed on Nakba Day are probably being promoted as we speak.

    • Mooser
      July 7, 2014, 7:39 pm

      “Doesn’t interest the anti-israel media….”

      DS, considering the media consolidation of recent years, you ought to be able to give us a pretty good list of the outlets, print, broadcast, or even web, of the “anti-Israel media”
      Wanna give it a shot? Should be easy, seeing as so many media outlets have avowedly anti-Israel stances. Oh please, don’t hold back.

    • Annie Robbins
      July 7, 2014, 9:14 pm

      but important anyway…

      oh i get what you’re saying. after the murder of shelly dadon israel’s military forces decided to kill two palestinian teenagers in cold blood starting a cycle of revenge killings which resulted in the abduction and killing of 3 israeli teens and then numerous other palestinians killed during the state of israel’s weeks long WB poprom and then another palestinian teen burned alive?

      i get it. yeah, thanks for pointing that out.

  21. Walid
    July 7, 2014, 3:50 pm

    Israeli MK, Ahmad Tibi just said on TV that Netanyahu had phoned the parents of Mohamed Abu Kdheir to say he was going to visit the mourning tent. Tibi said that the Abu Kdheir family, for whom he was speaking, doesn’t want Netanyahu anywhere near that tent as he was not welcome.

    Tibi also critized Netanyahu for having said that the killers of the 3 teens were animals and that the real animals are the Jerusalem police that beat up on Tareq.

    • jenin
      July 7, 2014, 3:53 pm

      good for the Abu Kdheir family. the last thing they should have to deal with is hearing that lying hypocrite Bibi spouting fake condolences for the media so he can look as though he cares.

      • Walid
        July 7, 2014, 4:41 pm

        Jenin, Gaza has fired over 80 rockets towards the settlements. It’s unclear if some of those are exploding over Asdod or if they are being shot down by Iron Dome. Lots of material damage on the Israeli side. Everyone in southern Israel in shelters now. Israel getting ready to strike back at Gaza. Looks a rough night ahead. Hamas warned Israel that it doesn’t want to see any of its planes over Gaza. Can’t tell if those are empty promises or if Hamas some surprises in store for Israel.

      • jenin
        July 7, 2014, 5:03 pm

        looks like everyone in the region is in for some tough times. And while, as always, I hope no innocent Israelis are killed or injured, Israel is reaping what it has sown.

      • Shingo
        July 7, 2014, 5:24 pm

        Hamas warned Israel that it doesn’t want to see any of its planes over Gaza. Can’t tell if those are empty promises or if Hamas some surprises in store for Israel.

        Wouldn’t it be interesting if they had their hands on some sams?

      • amigo
        July 7, 2014, 8:00 pm

        “Wouldn’t it be interesting if they had their hands on some sams?” Shingo.

        It,s a nice thought but how many innocent Gazans would die if they used them.

        The previous ratio would multiply exponentially knowing Israel,s thirst for revenge.

        And before the zios start accusing me of not caring about Jewish Israeli lives , let me respond by suggesting to the apartheid nation that they go back to their own borders and take their murdering squatters with them.

      • DaBakr
        July 8, 2014, 7:49 pm

        reckless warmongering wondering about how “interesting” it might be. you do understand you wondering about what it would take to launch an all out war with deaths in the multiple 1000’s. disgusting?

      • Shingo
        July 9, 2014, 3:42 am

        reckless warmongering wondering about how “interesting” it might be. you do understand you wondering about what it would take to launch an all out war with deaths in the multiple 1000′s. disgusting?

        Oh please, spare us the sanctimonious granstanding. There is no reason to wonder what al all out turkey shoot looks like. We saw it during Cast Lead and Lebanon 2006.

        And yes, it was disgusting.

      • MahaneYehude1
        July 8, 2014, 4:23 pm

        @Walid:

        Gaza has fired over 80 rockets towards the settlements. It’s unclear if some of those are exploding over Asdod or if they are being shot down by Iron Dome. Lots of material damage on the Israeli side. Everyone in southern Israel in shelters now. … Can’t tell if those are empty promises or if Hamas some surprises in store for Israel.

        The only surprise is the fact that the poor Gazan people, starving under the siege, can launch hundreds of missiles on Israel including missiles like Fajer that can hit Tel-Aviv and Jerusalem. Surprise, surprise!!!

      • Shingo
        July 9, 2014, 3:43 am

        The only surprise is the fact that the poor Gazan people, starving under the siege, can launch hundreds of missiles on Israel including missiles like Fajer that can hit Tel-Aviv and Jerusalem. Surprise, surprise!!!

        Why the surprise? The poor Gazan people, starving under the siege have a choice to either starve quietly or go down fighting.

    • Shingo
      July 7, 2014, 5:22 pm

      Tibi said that the Abu Kdheir family, for whom he was speaking, doesn’t want Netanyahu anywhere near that tent as he was not welcome.

      Bibbi has to be the most unwelcome political leader in ISraeli history. He got told the same thing by Rabin’s family and the Peled family when Miko’s niece was killed in a suicide bombing.

      • DaBakr
        July 8, 2014, 8:08 pm

        @shg
        this is an interesting comment. but-is he effective to the majority of Israelis even if not well liked?

      • Shingo
        July 8, 2014, 8:52 pm

        this is an interesting comment. but-is he effective to the majority of Israelis even if not well liked?

        Are you asking about perception or evidence?

      • yonah fredman
        July 8, 2014, 9:13 pm

        DaBakr- Seems to me that people are tired of Bibi and Bibi seems tired in the job. In a way this is good. If Yaalon or Saar inherit Likud and the leadership, they might seek to do something radical to put their imprint on the premiership and probably that something radical would make things even worse. So Bibi, the tired old Bibi who has served so long, not consecutive terms, but a long time in office, second only to Ben Gurion in time served, he is “safer” than he who would come after Bibi. But he is tired. Even his words of incitement were the words of a tired man. Like he’s on auto pilot, removed from the people and reality. But he has no post prime minister career plans and thus he will cling to power as long as possible. that’s the nature of the game. but to me, he looks tired.

  22. rationalist
    July 7, 2014, 6:51 pm

    Perusing through comments in other forums, it’s amazing to me to see comments complaining about the “Pro-Palestinian” mainstream media. That’s an absolutely delusional inversion of reality.

    Even now, the coverage of the violence in this conflict is presented as being tit-for-tat and even. The truth is that Palestinian casualties vastly outnumber Israeli casualties by a factor of 10 to 1. Of course, Palestinians are also the ones living behind walls, without economic freedom, without freedom of movement, and without consistent access to water, electricity, healthcare or building suppliers to repair their bullet-riddled homes.

    Until the media consistently hammers home the fact that Israel completely controls the lives of Palestinians, the story is distorted in Israel’s favor. Even then, they should explain the history of this conflict and stop presenting it as an ancient conflict between Jews and Muslims rather than the modern conquest of Palestine by Western-backed European Zionists.

    • ritzl
      July 8, 2014, 9:40 am

      That’s a great point, rationalist. In order for media to be demonstrably/measureably objective it/they would have to report 10x the Palestinian stories as it does now. That’s a succinct way to refute the silly “pro-Palestinian bias” claim in comment sections. Thanks.

      • rationalist
        July 8, 2014, 12:28 pm

        I would like to see a survey which investigates the general public’s knowledge of the basic facts of this conflict. For instance, I highly doubt that if most Americans were asked to identify which side had suffered more casualties that a majority would answer correctly.

    • DaBakr
      July 8, 2014, 7:52 pm

      rationalist says:
      “Perusing through comments in other forums, it’s amazing to me to see comments complaining about the “Pro-Palestinian” mainstream media. That’s an absolutely delusional inversion of reality”.

      While I can totally sympathize with how perplexed you are at the so-called “delusional inversion of reality” I can assure you that the opponents to your political views about Israel-Zionists, Israelis and other supporters are entirely as PERPLEXED as you are at the complete “delusional inversion of reality” they see in the anti-Zionist media where the complaint is that the msm is all ‘pro-Israel/pro-Zionist. I guess its just one of those ‘perplexing’ and ‘delusional’ things that you will never understand but will most likely continue to be perplexed about-as will I.

      • Shingo
        July 9, 2014, 3:47 am

        While I can totally sympathize with how perplexed you are at the so-called “delusional inversion of reality” I can assure you that the opponents to your political views about Israel-Zionists, Israelis and other supporters are entirely as PERPLEXED as you are at the complete “delusional inversion of reality” they see in the anti-Zionist media where the complaint is that the msm is all ‘pro-Israel/pro-Zionist.

        It’s not delusional, it’s beyond dispute. Even the MSN is reporting that the murder of the PAelstinian teeenager was revenge for the murder of the 3 Jewish boys, but there is no suggestion that the murder was itself a revenge attack for the murder of Palestinians. The MSN regurgitates everything the ISraeli government tells them, reads their press releases and doesn’t even bother to quote Palestinian leaders.

        The media is entirely pro Zionist – which is understandable when you have former AIPAC lobbyists with their own news program.
        link to youtube.com

      • rationalist
        July 9, 2014, 4:08 am

        Maybe the mainstream media in other countries is distorted against Israel, but studies investigating reporting in the U.S. consistently show that Israeli deaths are significantly over-reported while Palestinian deaths are significantly under-reported. The effect is that it appears that Israel has suffered more casualties than Palestinians when the objective truth is that Palestine has suffered 6 times more casualties than Israelis (10 times more children). To say nothing of the total absence of accurate reporting on the origins of the conflict, or the conditions of the occupation like house demolitions, military checkpoints, arrests, geography, settler violence, etc.

        When a publication does come closer to consistently and objectively reporting on the occupation and casualties, supporters of Israel start vigorously complaining of bias. The fact is that Palestinians suffer more casualties, more incidents of violence, and uniquely suffer from home demolitions, water shut offs and electricity shut offs. Objective reporting reveals that Israel is the occupier in this conflict. That’s simply a fact.

  23. The Hasbara Buster
    July 7, 2014, 7:11 pm

    @hophmi

    For God’s sake, what’s wrong with you? For the first time ever, the bruised face of a boy of Palestinian ethnicity beaten up by Israeli security forces is the largest image on the New York Times’ cover page. If that’s not unprecedented coverage, what is?

    The whole point of this article is that because this particular boy has American citizenship his story is getting phenomenal attention, unlike the many beatings of Palestinians that have been caught on camera in the last few years. I can’t see why you are so worked up by Weiss making such a clear point.

    • DaBakr
      July 8, 2014, 8:10 pm

      @thb
      the ‘dura’ incident comes to mind. camp david, cast lead, flotilla, etc.

  24. wes
    July 8, 2014, 3:11 am

    hasbara buster says

    ‘weiss making clear point’

    which is what………..the killing of the 3 yeshiva students has gained israel a lot of sympathy amongst jews worldwide.people are angry.

    whatever follows is damage control

    • Shingo
      July 8, 2014, 3:23 am

      ..the killing of the 3 yeshiva students has gained israel a lot of sympathy amongst jews worldwide.people are angry.

      It was short lived after the barbaric murder of the Palestinian boy.

      • Mooser
        July 8, 2014, 4:50 pm

        “..the killing of the 3 yeshiva students has gained israel a lot of sympathy amongst jews worldwide.people are angry.”

        So what, they’re angry? Please do go on wes. “jews worldwide” ( I usually use an upper-case J, but maybe I’m just a hopeless old ethnoeccentric) are angry, and therefore what?

  25. Walid
    July 8, 2014, 7:18 am

    After 6 homes were pulverized by Israel last night in Khan Yunis, Gaza, the residents this afternoon have resorted to experimenting with a new tactic, one that involves many residents actually sitting on the roofs of their homes in the hope that this would prevent their destruction by Israeli aircraft. I guess they don’t know about the Israeli mentality. Not working so far, ambulances keep bringing casualties to the hospital. Today 5 killed and 32 injured.

    • ritzl
      July 8, 2014, 10:03 am

      How many rockets per month in July 2008? How many now, July 2014? How many dead Gazans in that time?

      Killing people doesn’t stop rockets. It increases them. Likewise suicide bombing didn’t solve any problems. With very rare exceptions, Palestinians learned that killing doesn’t work. Why can’t Israel?

  26. Walid
    July 8, 2014, 9:43 am

    Tel Aviv opening the shelters to the public.

  27. Walid
    July 8, 2014, 10:07 am

    14 dead so far in Gaza; 6 in one home an hour ago. The 6 were on the building’s rooftop to avert such a bombing. Israel just hit a second building in the same area.

    • Bumblebye
      July 8, 2014, 10:22 am

      So sickening. I hate hearing their spox on bbcR4 World at One (in this case LtCol Peter Lerner) spouting the hasbara rocket meme barely challenged by the interviewers. At least in his case it was countered by Osama Hamdan who provided the info of the bombardment of the Strip by Israel over the last 3 weeks and the levels of damage they’d caused.

      • Walid
        July 8, 2014, 10:37 am

        Being reported that the $1.2 billion Iron Dome has a success rate of about 35%. A young man on a scooter was cut to pieces by an Apache missile. When you get such munitions for free from the US, there’s no need to be judicious in their use, no matter how expensive.

        B-G Airport is chaotic at this point. Looks like Israel is prepared to go all out in attacking Gaza and is expecting a return hit on the airport there and at Eilat that used to serve as a shelter and is now itself a target..

      • just
        July 8, 2014, 10:44 am

        And what will Jen say?

        I promise you something like this: we remain committed to Israel’s security, no matter what they do……and yes, “we continue to be shocked”, and yes we call on both sides to exercise restraint.

        Q: Has the Secretary spoken with Netanyahu?

        A: As you know, Mr. Netanyahu is very busy.

      • Walid
        July 8, 2014, 10:54 am

        US announced a short while back that Israel has a right to defend itself. Egypt tried talking Israel is stopping this afternoon and was told there is no stopping. Egypt was trying to get some OK to open the gates at Rafah to evacuate the injured but it wasn’t clear if Israel accepted or refused.

        2 more dead now. Up to 16 .

  28. Walid
    July 8, 2014, 10:26 am

    Mass demonstrations in solidarity with Gaza being organized via social networks all over the West Bank at the checkpoints right after the Iftar tonight, which should be in about 3 hours.

    Train service is disrupted all over Israel.

  29. ckg
    July 8, 2014, 10:59 am

    Much of the coverage elicits hostile comments directed at Tarek and his family. I reported one death threat in Miami’s Local 10 site comment section to its editors.

  30. Walid
    July 8, 2014, 11:14 am

    Israel’s Channel 2 reported that of the 70 rockets launched on Israel today, only 8 were stopped by the Iron Dome. One has to feel sorry for the American taxpayers that have had to foot the $1.2 billion cost.

    • lysias
      July 8, 2014, 11:30 am

      Both CNN and RT are reporting that Israel is about to launch a ground invasion of Gaza.

      • Walid
        July 8, 2014, 12:26 pm

        They wouldn’t do it, lysias, they are cowards, unless they begin by flattening out Gaza and killing about 4 or 5,000 people in the process first. They still haven’t gotten over Lebanon and how less than 3,000 Hizbullah fighters held off a force of 30,000 Israeli infantrymen.

        BTW, it’s boiling all over the WB and in inside Israel proper within the Arab communities and it wouldn’t take a big spark to light up the whole thing. Calls for Intifada III are in the air.

      • DaBakr
        July 8, 2014, 9:17 pm

        @wld
        “they are cowards” those cowards stayed in Lebanon until Sept. even if the objective of destroying long range missiles was not successful. And while it forced Israel to recognize that it was dealing with an Iranian backed professional militia (and I don’t hear many IDF refer to Hezbolli as ‘cowardly’ either-except maybe when they hide rocket batteries among civilian /hospital facilities) . Anyway-I put these “coward’ statements in the realm of ‘big-talking’ bystanders. I have heard limited and begrudging respect for IDF from hezbollah fighters on the rare allowed ‘interview’. And the July War was simply a first battle [according to many international military analysts] in the Iranian/US/Isr/Hez proxie war and as usual-mostly Lebanese and northern israelis will suffer most.

        And I wouldn’t call ANYBODY involved in hostilities a ‘coward’. I know better and so should you.

      • Annie Robbins
        July 9, 2014, 1:23 am

        I have heard limited and begrudging respect for IDF from hezbollah fighters on the rare allowed ‘interview’.

        do you have a source link?

        I wouldn’t call ANYBODY involved in hostilities a ‘coward’.

        it’s cowardly to abduct, threaten and torture children, something israeli forces do all the time.

      • Shingo
        July 9, 2014, 3:22 am

        those cowards stayed in Lebanon until Sept.

        After a ceasefire had been agreed to by all sides. Those cowards stayed on their side of the border of 2 weeks while they waiting for IAF to pummel Southern Lebanon and promise to weaken Hezbollah which they failed miserably at. The IAF were to ashamed to admit they had no idea where Hezbollah were so they insisted the job was done, so the ground troops got thumped when they entered.

        even if the objective of destroying long range missiles was not successful.

        Actually that was the last of about 4 downsized objectives. First it was to destroy Hezbollah. When that was clearly failing, it was replaced with the objective of stopping rocket attacks. When that failed it was replaced with the objective of slowing down rocket attacks. When that failed it was replaced with the objective of destroying long range missiles.

        And while it forced Israel to recognize that it was dealing with an Iranian backed professional militia

        What a load of crap is that Dabakr. You mean to say that the US backed IDF only realized it in 2006?

        and I don’t hear many IDF refer to Hezbolli as ‘cowardly’ either-except maybe when they hide rocket batteries among civilian /hospital facilities .

        Another pack of lies the Israelis pushed to excuse having their butts kicked and why the only response they could think of was to target civilians. We know why there was such a media blackout during Cast Lead. In 2006, Israel had no control over the reporting from Lebanon, so all their propaganda and lies were exposed on the spot.
        link to cmkl.ca

        I have heard limited and begrudging respect for IDF from hezbollah fighters on the rare allowed ‘interview’.

        So limited that they don’t exist.

        And the July War was simply a first battle [according to many international military analysts] in the Iranian/US/Isr/Hez proxie war and as usual-mostly Lebanese and northern israelis will suffer most.

        No, it was the second. You Hasbarats really are being sent out into the big bad world under cooked. The 2006 war was largely sold on the promise of avenging the humiliation the IDF received at the hands of Hezbollah when the were kicked out of Lebanon in 2000.

      • Walid
        July 9, 2014, 7:29 am

        Don’t take it personally, DaBakr, I was going by what I read of the IDF’s piss-poor training and lack of leadership among its officers from what was written up in the Winnograd Report, of news clips shown all over the world of IDF soldiers crying because they had been abandoned on the battlefield by their officers without food and water and only instructed by central command to steal what they needed from homes vacated by fleeing refugees and from a major documentary shown on channel 2 or 10 in 2007 describing the despair of the young Israeli soldiers in Lebanon. I also went by all the scenes we see of soldiers beating up on women and stone-throwing kids.

        What better example of cowardice than we we just saw how Tareq was beaten unconscious and repeatedly beaten while unconscious?

      • Shingo
        July 9, 2014, 8:21 am

        Don’t take it personally, DaBakr, I was going by what I read of the IDF’s piss-poor training and lack of leadership among its officers from what was written up in the Winnograd Report, of news clips shown all over the world of IDF soldiers crying because they had been abandoned on the battlefield by their officers without food and water and only instructed by central command to steal what they needed from homes vacated by fleeing refugees and from a major documentary shown on channel 2 or 10 in 2007 describing the despair of the young Israeli soldiers in Lebanon. I also went by all the scenes we see of soldiers beating up on women and stone-throwing kids.

        You left out that during the 33 day war, Israeli forces refused orders to advance against Hezbollah fighters, happily opting for 14 day jail sentences for failure to obey orders. IDF Captain Arye Shalicar of the IDF Recruitment Fraud unit revealed that eight companies of private investigators were hired to track down Israeli draft dodgers. The turned to Facebook to track down thousands who lied about being religiously observant and seeking to avoid facing Hezbollah, by seeing if those who avoided joining the military had posted picture on Facebook showing them eating at non-kosher restaurants or accepting invitations for fake Friday night parties sent by the investigators.

        What better example of cowardice than we we just saw how Tareq was beaten unconscious and repeatedly beaten while unconscious?

      • eljay
        July 9, 2014, 8:18 am

        >> And I wouldn’t call ANYBODY involved in hostilities a ‘coward’.

        I would. I’m under no illusions that every person who gets involved in hostilities is brave and/or a “hero”.

  31. Reds
    July 8, 2014, 1:13 pm

    Interesting that isrsrl is escalating at the same time the suspects who burned a Palestinian teen confessed.

  32. Walid
    July 8, 2014, 2:13 pm

    Hamas military wing commandos currently attacking the military training camp at Zikim south of Ashkelon. Israel saying it has already killed a couple of Palestinians and the Hamas are saying they have killed or injured many more. Who is telling the truth?

    • Pat Nguyen
      July 8, 2014, 5:07 pm

      Who do you think?

      • Shingo
        July 9, 2014, 3:47 am

        Who do you think?

        Obvious isn’t it? Israel always lies.

      • Walid
        July 9, 2014, 8:20 am

        Exactly as Shingo said, Israel’s history of lying about its casualties is well known. A few years back, 16 Israeli soldiers fell into a Hizbullah trap on a bungled mission in Lebanon but the parents of the fallen soldiers were told that their sons had died on a training mission and that lie had persisted for 7 years until Hizbullah provided a video tape of what actually happened but it wasn’t the one and only time; Israel keep lying about the number of its actual casualties to prevent the Israelis morale from crashing. As you could see in those scenes on the news last night and this morning of people in total panic at the sound of the sirens all over Israel, Israeli morale is not the most robust in the world.

        This isn’t to say that Hamas can’t spin a few tales of its own. For the past few days, it has been warning to shoot down any F16 or Apache that enters Gaza airspace. 20 people have died in air raids and the Israeli overflights have not stopped. So the Hamas commando raid from the sea on a naval training base at Zikim on which Israel is saying it killed 4 commandos and i Israeli soldier was injured could be another Israeli lie.

        There was no lie about Hamas missiles falling on Haifa or on Hadera.

      • Shingo
        July 9, 2014, 8:31 am

        Exactly as Shingo said, Israel’s history of lying about its casualties is well known.

        Another famous lie was the cover up of the Qana massacre of 1996. Israel insisted all along that it had nothing to do with the rocket attack on the refugee compound. The US was doing all it could to block the investigation at the UN.

        Then a UNIFIL soldier of Force Mobile Reserve (FMR) provided a tape to Robert Fisk showing a UAV and two helicopters in the vicinity at the time of the shelling. An Israeli government spokesman confirmed there was a drone in the area, but stated that it did not detect civilians in the compound. The IDF initially and repeatedly claimed that no drone was flying in the area before or during the shelling. The truth only emerged when the UNIFIL soldier secretly delivered the tape to Fisk.

        The Israeli government immediately expressed regret for the loss of innocent lives, saying that the Hezbollah position and not the UN compound was the intended target of the shelling, and that the compound was hit “due to incorrect targeting based on erroneous data.”

        The same excuse was used when they bombed an apartment block in Qana in 2006

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