British Parliament votes overwhelmingly to recognize Palestinian state

Israel/Palestine
on 117 Comments

In a historic move, the British Parliament voted overwhelmingly tonight, 274-12, to recognize a Palestinian state.

#MPs vote 274 to 12 to approve amended motion that Govt recognise #Palestine state alongside #Israel as part of negotiated 2 state solution

The sense of the speechmaking (rush transcript here) was almost entirely in favor of the motion, with members of the House of Commons saying they were reflecting the popular will in the wake of the Gaza slaughter and the failure of the peace process. Some said they were seeking to influence the United States, which has not been an honest broker. Here is the New York Times coverage, indicating it was a symbolic vote. Many speakers said that it was not symbolic, it was historic and long past due, from the country that gave Zionists the Balfour Declaration and that recognized a Jewish state in 1950.

We’ll get up more coverage of the debate later, but I wanted to pass along Sir Richard Ottaway’s speech. A strong supporter of Israel, the Conservative M.P., 69, who represents a London district, said that the country has made him “look like a fool” with its recent settlement announcement and that he is voting for the motion because of that landgrab. “I have to say to the Government of Israel that if they are losing people like me, they will be losing a lot of people.”

Richard Ottaway

Richard Ottaway

Here’s his speech from today’s debate:

If the rest of the debate follows the tone of the three speeches that we have heard so far, it will be a memorable debate. The next few minutes will be personally rather painful for me. It was inevitable right since the time of the Holocaust that Israel clearly had to be a state in its own right, and Attlee accepted the inevitable and relinquished the British mandate. In November 1947, the United Nations supported the partition resolution. What was on the table then was a settlement that the Arabs would die for today. In May 1948, Israel became an independent state and came under attack from all sides within hours. In truth, it has been fighting for its existence ever since.

I was a friend of Israel long before I became a Tory. My wife’s family were instrumental in the creation of the Jewish state. Indeed, some of them were with Weizmann at the Paris conference. The Holocaust had a deep impact on me as a young man growing up in the aftermath of the second world war, particularly when I paid a visit as a schoolboy to Belsen…

In the six-day war, I became personally involved. There was a major attempt to destroy Israel, and I found myself as a midshipman in the Royal Navy based on board a minesweeper in Aden, sent by Harold Wilson to sweep the straits of Tiran of mines after the Suez Canal had been blocked. In the aftermath of that war, which, clearly, the Israelis won, the Arab states refused peace, recognition or negotiation.

Six years later, in the Yom Kippur war in 1973, the same situation happened again. It was an emphatic defeat after a surprise attack. Since then, based on the boundaries that were framed after the Yom Kippur war, we have had three thwarted peace agreements, each one better than the last, and we have had two tragedies: the assassination of Rabin and the stroke suffered by Ariel Sharon.

Throughout all this, I have stood by Israel through thick and thin, through the good years and the bad. I have sat down with Ministers and senior Israeli politicians and urged peaceful negotiations and a proportionate response to prevarication, and I thought that they were listening. But I realise now, in truth, looking back over the past 20 years, that Israel has been slowly drifting away from world public opinion. The annexation of the 950 acres of the West Bank just a few months ago has outraged me more than anything else in my political life, mainly because it makes me look a fool, and that is something that I resent.

Turning to the substantive motion, to be a friend of Israel is not to be an enemy of Palestine. I want them to find a way through, and I am delighted by yesterday’s reconstruction package for Gaza, but with a country that is fractured with internal rivalries, that shows such naked hostility to its neighbour, that attacks Israel by firing thousands of rockets indiscriminately, that risks the lives of its citizens through its strategic placing of weapons and that uses the little building material that it is allowed to bring in to build tunnels, rather than homes, I am not yet convinced that it is fit to be a state and should be recognised only when there is a peace agreement. Under normal circumstances, I would oppose the motion tonight; but such is my anger over Israel’s behaviour in recent months that I will not oppose the motion. I have to say to the Government of Israel that if they are losing people like me, they will be losing a lot of people.

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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117 Responses

  1. southernobserver
    October 13, 2014, 6:13 pm

    “You did the “fool” thing all by yourself!” From [Megamind]

  2. Sycamores
    October 13, 2014, 6:35 pm

    Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab):
    I am delighted to have the opportunity to speak in this historic debate on the recognition of statehood for Palestine: one small part in righting a profound and lasting wrong. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) on securing the debate and, in so doing, again demonstrating his commitment to justice and to the region. This issue has widespread public support in the UK and across the world. That has been shown by the hundreds of thousands of people who took to the streets over the summer to protest against the continued bloodshed in the region, and by the flooding of Members’ in-boxes by constituents asking us to support this important motion.

    public support is what won the day

  3. pabelmont
    October 13, 2014, 6:45 pm

    Wonderful vote!

    Dreadful speech in a way by Sir Richard Ottaway. It is almost a full-out pro-Israel speech that absolutely fails to recognize the Palestinians’ many injuries and demands — end settlements, end occupation (not at all the same thing), remove the wall, end siege of Gaza, and end the exclusion of the Palestinian exiles of 1947 and later.

    But OTOH it recognizes the final (for him) slap in the face, one land grab (among many not complained of by him, one might point out). And it recognizes what is too obvious to ignore, the size of the pro-Palestine vote and the support of the UK’s people for it.

    A fine fall day.

    • just
      October 13, 2014, 7:08 pm

      A “fine fall day” indeed! Agree about Ottaway as well.

      Further:

      “The UN secretary general has strongly criticised Israeli settlement-building in a series of pointed remarks made in Jerusalem and Ramallah in which he challenged Israel’s prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, to show leadership and make compromises for peace.

      Ban Ki-moon – who is on a two-day visit to the region – also called for an end to provocations at Jerusalem’s holy sites which, have caused clashes in recent days.

      Citing Israel’s recent announcement on new settlement construction plans for east Jerusalem, Ban condemned the plans as a “clear violation of international law”.”

      http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/13/un-general-secretary-ban-ki-moon-criticises-israel-settlement-building

    • NickJOCW
      October 14, 2014, 5:58 am

      @pabelmont, The sense of being fooled is a compelling eye opener. Most of Ottaway’s generation (I am somewhat older) were deeply affected in the aftermath of WWII which killed 2.5% of the human population and left the UK with rationing that didn’t end until 1954 and a debt of over a thousand million pounds to the US not finally paid off until 2006. The overwhelming feeling then was that there had to be another way. Israel offered hope, a singularly oppressed people starting a new life from scratch in a new nation would surely show the world how it could be done. The disillusion was slow to spread. Rather like Obama’s peace purposes, we are ever reluctant to face the fact some real hope was all wishful thinking and we were fooled. Most who had those dreams are now dead, some like Ottaway (born in 1945) and me (1937) inherited them ready formed and it has taken a while to discard them. I lost mine on a visit in 1971 when I found there were Arab Jews who were not provided equal education and housing with others, and their young men were in consequence forming anarchic gangs. I asked Teddy Kollek about them and his response was far from sympathetic. It was snowing in Jerusalem that day and I remember walking from the King David in a sadly contemplative state. I visited a kibbutz near Jericho and, although I am doubtful about such socialistic experiments, what really gave me pause was that the main source of income there was long stemmed roses grown for Manhattan flower markets. Later, after a visit to Yad Vasham, I found my driver engrossed in a book which he told me was all about ‘the history and geography of our new territories’. Bear with Richard Ottaway, he has been stripped of a big chunk of his life.

    • American
      October 14, 2014, 9:25 am

      Ottaway is typical self serving political ass—-using hasbara, the H and his dear wife to justify his support of Israel—–but thinking the pubic might be shifting the political tide on Israel and he will be swept out if he doesn’t get on the boat—–so he put one foot in.
      However straddling a fence is a good way to get your balls bruised.

      Next up —labeling those politicians who don’t get on the Palestine Justice boat as ‘Chamberlin’ appeasers…appeasing the new nazis.

  4. just
    October 13, 2014, 7:15 pm

    More from another article:

    “The former foreign secretary, Jack Straw, said the vote was not simply a gesture, because if it were, the Israeli government would not be as worried by the vote.

    The Israeli government, he said, wants the recognition of the Palestinian state only at the successful conclusion of any negotiations. But Straw said “such an approach would give the Israelis a veto over whether a Palestinian state should exist”. A vote for recognition would add to the pressure on the Israeli government, he said. “The only thing that the Israeli government, in my view, in its present demeanour under Bibi Netanyahu understands is pressure.”

    Straw moved an amendment to the motion setting out that the UK government should recognise Palestine “as a contribution to securing a negotiated two-state solution”.

    Sir Malcolm Rifkind, a former Conservative foreign secretary, said it had been British policy for generations that a state is recognised when the territory in question has a government, an army and a military capability.”

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/13/mps-vote-to-recognise-palestinian-state

    Sir Ridkind is still gulping the Ziocaine.

    • pabelmont
      October 13, 2014, 7:38 pm

      Not sure what Israel’s “territory in question” is. Israel has boundaries only by treaties with Egypt and Jordan, and each of these boundaries is more a boundary of the Arab country than of Israel since Gaza lies on the Egyptian line and West Bank lies on the Jordanian line.

      Many people believe that “Israel” means, territorially, the territory Israel held on May 31 1967. But Israel does not say so.

      Some analysts are pointing out, these days, that ISIS is the (claimed) Islamic State without claimed or defined boundaries in the Middle East and Israel is JSIS — the Jewish State without boundaries in the Middle East.

      • talknic
        October 14, 2014, 9:43 am

        @ pabelmont
        “Israel has boundaries only by treaties with Egypt and Jordan”

        Nonsense. The boundaries of Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria were set by 1946 and Israel’s boundaries were recognized based on the Israeli Government plea for recognition in which Israel was ” proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947,” http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/israel/large/documents/newPDF/49.pdf

        None of the International Comity of Nations has ever recognized any further territory as Israeli. The boundaries of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Israel have not changed. The 19949 armistice agreements specifically did not change any borders.

        Read the Israeli/Lebanese Armistice agreement

        Article V

        1. The Armistice Demarcation Line shall follow the international boundary between the Lebanon and Palestine.

        No borders have ever been altered by any ceasefire, armistice agreement or peace treaty.

        What was not proclaimed as Israeli on May 15th 1948 and was not a part of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan or Egypt on May 15th 1948, is Palestinian (Arab territory)

    • Frankie P
      October 14, 2014, 1:06 am

      He’s not just gulping Ziocaine, he must also be guzzling Sinocaine, because if it has been British policy to recognize a state when the territory in quesiton has a government, an army, and military capability, Britain would have recognized Taiwan as an independent country by now.

  5. Kay24
    October 13, 2014, 7:38 pm

    It was easy to spot those who are doing Israel’s bidding. Thankfully where this vote was concerned it was only a handful. There is a strong message for Israel here. If the UK even symbolically, is showing that they are supporting the Palestinians, they had better watch out, this could be the start of a major shift in the EU, with Sweden also showing the way. Other nations will get the courage now to make similar resolutions, and the zios are not going to like it.
    I think the Palestinians deserve this show of support, and those speeches by the Ministers clearly showed strong criticism for Israel, disagreeing with the occupation, land theft, and they also showed disgust at the killing of civilians, including many children. There were great points made today in the British Parliament, and there was even mild criticism for the US.

    Sadly the US including Congress have drunk too much of the koolaid, and have become deaf to voices of sanity, and too controlled by the criminal nation to make a bold stand just like this.
    As I said before we are always on the wrong side where this conflict is concerned. Shame.

  6. amigo
    October 13, 2014, 7:45 pm

    The candles are burning late tonight in “TEL AVIV” and Hasbara central has issued an “All hands on deck call”.

    First response is to condemn the 274 antisemitic MP,s for trying to destroy Israel and supporting terrorists.

    The second is to glorify the twelve just MP,s who voted for the only democracy in the middle east and vanguard against ISIL.

    Should be fun reading the comments from the hasbara brigade.

    • just
      October 13, 2014, 8:06 pm

      In some of the speeches today, I felt as though Trevor, Max, MW folks, Dan Cohen, Mads, Joe Catron and so many others had finally been listened to.

      I felt that the shattering photos and videos from Gaza had been witnessed with horror and a final refutation of Israeli impunity….the little boys on the beach and Salem Shamaly and so very many– too many– more that were slaughtered.

      • American
        October 13, 2014, 8:30 pm

        just
        October 13, 2014, 8:06 pm

        In some of the speeches today, I felt as though Trevor, Max, MW folks, Dan Cohen, Mads, Joe Catron and so many others had finally been listened to” >>>>>>>>>>>>>

        I too think Max et al deserve some credit for this..maybe a lot or even most of the credit….they were all over the UK parliament with their testimonies about Gaza.

    • In2u
      October 13, 2014, 11:02 pm

      I’m sure we will be seeing new faces as few gets the sack.

      • In2u
        October 13, 2014, 11:08 pm

        Sack of Hasbara spokesman/woman I mean.

      • bintbiba
        October 14, 2014, 11:44 am

        just, american… great comments. Max, Dan, Mads, Joe, also Harry Fear, real heroes.

  7. John Douglas
    October 13, 2014, 8:35 pm

    I’m in Edinburgh for a visit. I read the news on Huffington UK so naturally I came to M-W. It’s 1:32am and I’m very happy. This, especially given the margin, will create a lot of pressure on other EU governments, pressure that will come from the streets, that will say, “Why don’t you do the right thing as the House of Commons has.”

    • pabelmont
      October 14, 2014, 9:50 am

      Of course, the House proposes, but the Government disposes, and it has not yrt acted to recognize Palestine and seems unlikely to do so.

      Perhaps, tho, it’s just a matter of waiting to see how long a popular mandate can be ignored by a government which — I imagine — is, like that of the USA, controlled by a monied oligarchy which consists of people who are either “in bed with” or are actually Zionists.

  8. American
    October 13, 2014, 8:37 pm

    Maybe this helped too. Some one finally addressed the “Z and I Lobby” buying politics out loud and in public….holy cow! This will scare Israel as much as anything..

    ” “The time has come to make sure above any doubt that the funding of any party in the UK is clearly decoupled from the influence of the Israeli state.”

    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/Politics/article1470333.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2014_10_11

    Tim Shipman Political Editor Published: 12 October 2014

    DAVID CAMERON’S envoy to the Gulf is to attack the government’s failure to condemn Israel’s settlement building on the West Bank.

    Sir Alan Duncan, a former international development minister, warns that Britain must speak out or risk “a serious long-term price” in the region.

    His comments come as MPs are poised to vote tomorrow to back calls for Britain to recognise Palestine as a state in its own right.

    In a speech at the Royal United Services Institute on Tuesday, Duncan will warn Cameron that groups such as Conservative Friends of Israel (CFI) should not have disproportionate policy influence.

    “We need British Jews for the Conservative, Labour or other UK parties, not the Israeli lobby for any party,” he will say. “The time has come to make sure above any doubt that the funding of any party in the UK is clearly decoupled from the influence of the Israeli state.”

  9. Citizen
    October 13, 2014, 8:44 pm

    Will be interesting to see if any US main media reaching out to US masses, that is, TV news/infotainment, especially cable TV’s, even mentions this vote, and if so, how the channels spin it.

    • Kay24
      October 13, 2014, 10:25 pm

      So far I have heard about Ebola, Ferguson, and ISIS throughout the day, non stop.

      They must have been warned not to touch this. You have to get out of the US to keep in touch with the real world.

      • hardteachings
        October 13, 2014, 11:08 pm

        same here; all my t.v. absent of the brit’s soul cleansing…h

    • Reds
      October 16, 2014, 10:01 am

      Go to NPR to see how the media is spining it. Hasabara crows are even trying to claim Labor is a fringe Group in British politics.

  10. ckg
    October 13, 2014, 8:45 pm

    Straw’s amendment reads a lot like the language AIPAC inserts into any U.S. discussion of I/P. Yes, Palestine needs a state…as part of negotiated solution…but those Palestinians don’t negotiate in good faith…we have no negotiating partner…one day they will come to their senses…stop with these unilateral UN actions…pehaps the next generation will stop hating us…

    I’m not celebrating. I’m have a shot and going to bed.

    • amigo
      October 13, 2014, 9:04 pm

      “I’m not celebrating. I’m have a shot and going to bed.” ckg –

      I would not be too cynical.There was a lot of honest and passionate speeches and those MP,s will be tapping other MP,s on the shoulder in the hallways between parliamentary sessions and cajoling and creating new conscripts.The next election will see this issue at the forefront.These people have got what the man in the street sees.

      Jack straw did not program these people and they did not appear to me as sheep.Even Jack Straw seemed to have a new found aversion to Israel,s behaviour.Remember , he was a major player with tony poodle blair in the war in Iraq.Maybe he sees this as a way to atone for his past sins and get back in power in 2015.

    • straightline
      October 14, 2014, 7:15 am

      In searching for some information about Jack Straw, I came across this piece – I hope it was meant to be flippant.

      http://www.thejc.com/lifestyle/how-jewish-is/how-jewish-jack-straw

      Straw represents a constituency with a large Muslim population (around 25% according to Wikipedia). In his younger days, Straw was very radical and left wing – George Galloway would have been proud of him then. But then he turned into an establishment type with Blair.

    • Sycamores
      October 14, 2014, 11:36 am

      @ ckg,

      the vote is mostly symbolic and non-binding which by itself is little to celebrate but as the

      Britain’s ambassador to Israel, Matthew Gould, said that although the vote was not binding on the British government it was significant.

      “I think that this vote is a sign of shifting public opinion in the UK and indeed beyond,” he said in an interview Tuesday morning with Israeli public radio.

      http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=733114

      i’m convince other European countries will follow suit. growing public support and pressure is what Israel fears the most because they have no control over it.

      also

      following the vote the PLO Secretary General Yasser Abed Rabbo calls on the British government to endorse the move by voting in favor of a Palestinian state at the Security Council. not forgetting Britain is one of the permanent members of the UNSC. http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/PLO-to-UK-Follow-your-parliaments-lead-and-recognize-Palestinian-statehood-378872

      • ckg
        October 14, 2014, 1:35 pm

        On reflection, I think you’re right. The vote is largely symbolic, so let’s praise it for generating a lot of negative press for Israel.

  11. Citizen
    October 13, 2014, 8:47 pm

    So, add the Brits to all the countries that recognize the Palestinian state: http://www.defenseone.com/politics/2014/10/these-are-all-countries-now-recognize-palestinian-statehood/95822/

    Who’s next, Ireland?

    • Citizen
      October 13, 2014, 8:49 pm

      Ireland, Denmark and Finland, but especially in France – a fellow security council member – are likely to confirm the shift of public opinion across Europe.

    • Annie Robbins
      October 13, 2014, 11:50 pm

      belgium, the protests in belgium were huge. and Amsterdam & Hague, Netherlands both huge protests.

      spain, norway..
      http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/worldwide-protest-israeli

      here are 2 from Bilbao, a week apart. and they were happening in madrid and barcelona too.

  12. Antidote
    October 13, 2014, 9:08 pm

    “The annexation of the 950 acres of the West Bank just a few months ago has outraged me more than anything else in my political life, mainly because it makes me look a fool, and that is something that I resent. ”

    Let’s get this straight: this London Conservative MP cast his vote not because he is outraged about the treatment of the Palestinians over the past century, nor does he care about Israel and the future of the Jewish state, peace in the ME and whatever other reasonably altruistic motives one might imagine. He got moving because he’s had enough: he deeply resents looking like the fool he clearly is. Got to love the British and their sense of “honour” which -according to Richard Overy (1939: Countdown to War) – also got them involved in the last apocalypse. It was all about honour: British, Polish, German. Brought them all down. And the European Jews with them. No world war (British/American involvement), no Holocaust. The murder of European Jewry was Hitler’s Samson option, and hardly a big secret, much less a surprise.

    • Eva Smagacz
      October 14, 2014, 3:46 am

      Antidote,

      I really disagree with your take on World War II history. Hitler’s plans were to clean subhuman Jews, closely followed by cleansing subhuman Slavs from conquered Eastern territories.

      • Ellen
        October 14, 2014, 1:21 pm

        And the mentally of physically disabled, the Roma, the homosexual, and anyone else who might have been deemed a potential threat to the Germanic state and the mythical idea of an Aryan people.

      • Antidote
        December 13, 2014, 6:56 pm

        “I really disagree with your take on World War II history. ”

        At least I have a sense of history, whereas you keep peddling the tiresome Romantic myth of Polish innocence and victimhood — Christ among the nations/of Europe nonsense that you criticize so sharply when it comes at you in its Jewish version. Is it Jewish, or Polish, this exalted sense of innocent victimhood? Who infected whom with this mental virus?

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_of_Europe

        And Hitler picked it up as well. Versailles, the forced peace at the cost of up to a million Germans starved by the British blockade etc. Worst crime in history! This stuff was repeated all the way to the anti-interventionists in the US.

        Before that, the partitions of Poland were hailed as the greatest crime in hisory. Now, the Holocaust.

        I don’t believe in any such claims. Even if it were true, I would deny it. Nothing good has ever come from it. See Poland. Hitler. Israel.

        “Hitler’s plans were to clean subhuman Jews, closely followed by cleansing subhuman Slavs from conquered Eastern territories. ”

        you call that history? If this was an undisputed fact, please explain to me why Hitler bent over backwards to achieve an alliance with Poland (against the USSR, whom Poland attacked right “after” WW I? Not forgotten in Russia but apparently in Poland? Are you trying to tell me that Poles did not consider non-Poles (including Slavs, and definitely Germans) as sub-human?

        Maybe you should read some new historians in Poland to get over your historical blindness

        And do check out the Polish treatment of minorities in the Second Republic – Ukrainians, Jews, Germans – before and after the war.

        You think there were (are) no “Nazis” in Poland?

        link to a recent bestseller in Poland:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pact_Ribbentrop_-_Beck

        I trust you can read Polish

        http://wpolityce.pl/polityka/138697-czy-polska-powinna-byla-w-1939-roku-isc-z-hitlerem-michal-karnowski-rozmawia-z-piotrem-zychowiczem-autorem-glosnej-ksiazki-pakt-ribbentrop-beck

    • lysias
      October 14, 2014, 2:10 pm

      Failure to resist Hitler might have put off the Holocaust for a while, but anybody who reads Mein Kampf realizes Hitler would have gone on to proceed to that ultimate objective as soon as he thought it could be done. In the meantime, if Britain had acquiesced in Hitler’s conquest of Poland, that would have meant acquiescing in German hegemony over the continent of Europe. Conquering Lebensraum (Mein Kampf again) would have soon been on Hitler’s agenda. And he would have found some way, violent or not, to reduce France to subservience (yet again, Mein Kampf). And once he had really established German control of Europe, Hitler would certainly have gone after the Jews.

  13. David Doppler
    October 13, 2014, 10:11 pm

    “The only thing that the Israeli government, in my view, in its present demeanour under Bibi Netanyahu understands is pressure.”

    So heavy-handed has Netanyahu been that he leads his country into defeat in the British Parliament, in American academia, and who knows what other bastions of the world establishment will join in the chorus condemning his “homeland.”

    Perhaps Obama will take strength to say what he should’ve said years ago: here is a line. If you cross it, we will cut you off, from funding, from Security Council veto, from moral support.

    • pabelmont
      October 14, 2014, 10:01 am

      Jack Straw has now said out loud what most realists must long have realized, that Israel has never (and not only under B-N) responded to what I call “mere words” (you know, UNSC resolutions w/o sanctions and the like). Israel will respond to sufficient pressure. The question of “sufficiency” remains to be determined. That’s what BDS is all about. Civil society began it with the “B” and “D” but only governments can apply “S” (sanctions).

  14. michelle
    October 13, 2014, 11:24 pm

    .
    anyone think ‘we’ might be getting any closer to the top of this mountain
    .
    G-d Bless
    .

    • lobewyper
      October 15, 2014, 12:11 pm

      Yes, I do. I think this vote was an unbelievably huge landslide against Israel and will be a wake up call for the American government. The American people hate bullies

  15. seafoid
    October 14, 2014, 12:50 am

    Ottaway’s speech reminds me of what Max Hastings wrote in July

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2703531/MAX-HASTINGS-Ive-loved-Israel-brutality-breaks-heart.html

    So much sympathy for the Shoah but when the “special people” start killing children and it’s clear they could care less about 2 states the opinion formers in the West who gave them the benefit of the doubt start wondering what exactly the point of the Jewish state is.

    Losing these people should be a red light for Zionists. Maybe someone could translate it into Hebrew so they can understand it.

    And hanging over it all is the nature of statehood and power. Nothing is permanent. Zionism is just a phase.

  16. piotr
    October 14, 2014, 1:53 am

    The Guardian is a weird newspaper: they got an ambition to present a “fresh voice” in the American territory, and that necessitates the most stale attitude to Middle East, and foreign policy in general. So who comments on the vote to recognize Palestinian state in Guardian?

    “Dr Azriel Bermant is a research fellow at the Institute for National Security Studies at Tel Aviv University. Twitter: @azrielb”. The freshest Hasbara, straight from the oven! It is a piano Hasbara, strictly for export. Some concern for the peace process. But it is the conclusion that is the most delicious: “Britain would probably do better by taking its cue from the Egyptian president, Abdel Fatah al-Sisi, who has a stronger grasp of the realities in the region, and has called for a revival of the Arab peace initiative of 2002. Netanyahu has acknowledged that the recent Gaza war demonstrated the new possibilities of cooperation with potential partners in the Arab world.”

    I may be only an amateur of history, so I do not know a contemporary leader who would be as complete fascist as Abdel Fatah al-Sisi. Cult of personality, massacres of opposition, murderous judiciary, grotesque censorship, all in the best traditions of Mediterranean fascism. Given that Revisionist Zionism has the same intellectual pedigree, the cooperation is only natural.

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      October 14, 2014, 5:44 am

      ‘The Guardian’ has long since ceased to be of any value when it comes to ‘coverage’ of the Middle East. It was muzzled by ‘CiF Watch’ several years ago – they all but admitted this in one of their editorials. It should also be pointed out that the Guardian has always been a massive supporter of the Syrian ‘rebels’, reproducing every one of their lies and fabrications as though they were established fact. The Guardian’s ‘sister’ paper, The Observer, also came out in support of the war in Iraq, as well as the July war on Lebanon.

      I do still appreciate the Guardian when it comes to domestic UK news, but as regards foreign affairs, it’s no different from the New York Times these days.

      • straightline
        October 14, 2014, 10:02 pm

        Agreed – I dumped the Guardian over its reporting of Syria. I recall one of its typical reports on Syria, where a commenter said “I don’t believe a f***ing word you’re saying” and received more positive votes than all of the many other comments combined.

    • Justpassingby
      October 14, 2014, 3:46 am

      and that “map” is old to begin with.

      would be nice if you can add the “Edit” button again..

      • pabelmont
        October 14, 2014, 10:04 am

        Yes, Phil, we want the EDIT button back. I’ve got very thick and unruly fingers. I may not be alone.

      • talknic
        October 14, 2014, 10:34 am

        @ pabelmont … unlury figners 4 dicslexyc redears

      • Eva Smagacz
        October 15, 2014, 3:14 pm

        Here Here

      • just
        October 15, 2014, 3:40 pm

        LOLOL!

      • Pixel
        October 17, 2014, 8:38 pm

        100 thumbs up on that!

  17. eGuard
    October 14, 2014, 4:52 am

    Ottaway: In the aftermath of that [1967] war, which, clearly, the Israelis won, the Arab states refused peace, recognition or negotiation.

    With ‘opposition’ like this, Israel doesn’t need to worry.

  18. Bornajoo
    October 14, 2014, 4:59 am

    there will be some more momentum today and from a former Conservative minister which is even more refreshing. Alan Duncan will make a “blistering” speech later today. This will be the most passionate and damming one yet:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/14/alan-duncan-to-condemn-israeli-settlements-in-blistering-speech

    • just
      October 14, 2014, 8:12 am

      Thanks Bornajoo. From your link:

      ““Settlements are illegal colonies built in someone else’s country. They are an act of theft, and what is more something which is both initiated and supported by the state of Israel.”

      Duncan will highlight the “amazing city” of Hebron where Palestinian families have been forced out of the centre of the city, he will say, by settlers. He will say: “One should not use the word apartheid lightly, but as a description of Hebron it is both accurate and undeniable. In South Africa it meant pass cards, no free movement, forbidden areas, and first and second-class citizens. So it is in Hebron.”

      The former minister will say that the Israeli government actively encourages settlement activity. “Rightful Palestinian citizens are reduced to having nothing while illegal Israeli colonisers get everything. Water, electricity, access, protection: illegal settlers get the lot, the Palestinians next to nothing.

      “Settlement activity is not carried out by some minority group outside the orbit of the Israeli state. Settlement activity is systematically initiated, implemented and supported by the Israeli government, who authorise, implement and protect the relentless illegal expansion of the borders of Israel. This is reprehensible.

      “In addition to being illegal, settlement activity is very often violent, nasty, and brutal. Not all, but many settlers are heavily armed and aggressive.”

      Duncan will also say that anyone who supports settlements should be regarded as an extremist. “Settlement endorsement, meaning the denial that they are illegal and the support for their consequences, is a form of extremism which we should not tolerate. Be it tacit, or be it explicit, such an attitude is simply not acceptable.”

      Successive British governments have repeatedly made clear to Israel that they regard Israeli settlements on lands captured during the 1967 six-day war as illegal. But Duncan believes that Britain and other friends of Israel need to spell out to Netanyahu’s government that by ignoring calls to halt expansion it is acting outside the bounds of democratic nations.

      The former minister will use particularly harsh language to criticise Netanyahu for ignoring concerns raised by Barack Obama. The Peace Now group criticised Israeli plans to build homes in the Givat Hamatos area of East Jerusalem on the eve of a meeting between Obama and Netanyahu.

      Duncan will say: “Apart from the calculated insult to President Obama, it is impossible to overstate the criminal intent and strategic importance of Israel’s settlement plan, announced a fortnight ago, for Givat Hamatos. It would finalise the severing of Bethlehem from Jerusalem; it is to be built on Palestinian lands owned by the villagers of Beit Safafa; and it would destroy any easy connection between Palestinian neighbourhoods in south Jerusalem and a future Palestinian state.””

  19. Bornajoo
    October 14, 2014, 5:02 am

    former Conservative minister Alan Duncan will make a speech later today

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/14/alan-duncan-to-condemn-israeli-settlements-in-blistering-speech

  20. Bornajoo
    October 14, 2014, 5:04 am

    there is momentum, our politicians are finally standing up and finding their voice. The vote last night was more than symbolic, it gives credibility and freedom to express views which until now have been taboo in the msm. Duncan’s speech will be the strongest and most damming yet.

    • bintbiba
      October 14, 2014, 2:20 pm

      Bornajoo… For the first time I felt the stirrings of pride in our politicians
      for showing some guts and honesty in the face of what they know will
      come in the wake of their talk. I was a little late and didn’t know whether Gerald Kauffman had his say. He is usually magnificent! I felt sad to see him looking so gaunt.

  21. NickJOCW
    October 14, 2014, 6:34 am

    ‘Non-binding’ is the correct term, ‘symbolic’ is journalism. 275 supporters represents 95.8% of those present and 42.15% of all members of the UK parliament. Netanyahu should put that in his pipe and smoke it.

    • MRW
      October 14, 2014, 3:17 pm

      But it acts as a testing of the waters. Even though there are 650 MPs, as Boomer quotes Juan Cole below, the public reaction to this will tell the tale. Count on the hasbara teams to go into high gear. Their problem is the revulsion against what happened this past summer. And the fact that the number of Millennials globally ain’t gonna’ buy it.

  22. Boomer
    October 14, 2014, 6:56 am

    The PM has said it won’t make a difference. And, as Juan Cole observes:

    “There are 650 members of the British parliament, so the vote on Monday by 271 of them to recognize Palestine is hardly an overwhelming victory for supporters of this position. On the other hand, only 12 voted against. Most MPs seem to have made themselves scarce.”

    So, it is better than the U.S. Congress, but not a fundamental change.

    • Denis
      October 14, 2014, 10:37 am

      Boomer you, and Cole, are absolutely right to raise the point that more MP’s did not vote for the resolution than voted for it. The numbers give context.

      But part of that numerical context is that those 364 MP’s abstaining could not be bribed or badgered by GoI to vote against the resolution — only 12 out of 650 (2%) voted against it. To me that is the most stunning numerical aspect of this vote. Had the resolution been brought before Congress, only 2% would have voted FOR it.

      The non-numerical aspect is more important. For those who followed the speeches leading up to the vote, it is clear that Parliament is having a deep, honest dialog on this issue. As one of them said, they have a responsibility to do the right thing because the UK screwing up the British Mandate is where the whole travesty started.

      If only Congress could have such honest debates on the issue, rather than the AIPAC-sponsored, shekel-driven drivel that has been the norm for 40 years.

  23. Kay24
    October 14, 2014, 7:54 am

    The British Foreign Minister has stated that public opinion is shifting against Israel. Those are words that can be the beginning of a landslide in the EU. Now other nations in the EU will feel encouraged to do the same. I think that Israelis must thank their war mongering leadership, and also themselves for this. They all wanted Gaza bombed and the people wiped out. The world watched with horror as Israel used deadly weapons on children, and were disgusted by it.

    The Ministers who stood up and criticized Israel’s brutality, did so because the scenes of the carnage is still fresh in their minds. It was as if suddenly a curtain parted and people saw who really were the terrorists, the butchers, the violent side using their US/UK given weapons on babies, children, women, who were treated like sitting ducks by the aggressor, and that even UN shelters were not spared. They were horrified by the mounting casualties, and realized that despite crying wolf, the majority of the rockets that came from militants hardly hit their targets.
    Good job Israel.
    There must be a lot of damage control, arm twisting, desperate calls, and hasbarats spewing the same drivel in websites, and that alone is worth this “symbolic” vote.

  24. Mayhem
    October 14, 2014, 8:07 am

    @Philip, you don’t want to be a party pooper – is that why you won’t tell us the whole story?
    1. Members of the UK government, which backs a two-state solution, completely abstained from the vote.
    2. The vote is non-binding and it was initiated by a backbencher from the opposition Labour party.
    3. The UK House of Commons has 650 MPs of which only 286 actually voted in this debate, 364 did not.
    4. A number of high-profile figures were reportedly uncomfortable with the motion and did not show up.  Neither PM David Cameron nor Labour leader Ed Miliband was in the Commons chamber for the start of the debate.
    5. By ignoring this debate and abstaining, rather than voting against it en masse, the UK government effectively handed a symbolic, tokenistic victory to the opposition, and a victory for Palestinian beligerence and terrorism by upping the anti rather striving for a negotiated, secure settlement with Israel.

    • Annie Robbins
      October 14, 2014, 8:12 am

      striving for a negotiated, secure settlement with Israel is a waste of time/lost cause. there’s simply no indication israel is willing to even propose borders for their own state.

      • seafoid
        October 14, 2014, 8:47 am

        Total waste of time. Expecting good faith from Israel is pointless.

        http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/14/israel-condemns-british-mps-vote-palestinian-state

        “Speaking on Israeli radio after the vote the UK ambassador to Israel, Matthew Gould, insisted that Israeli officials should not dismiss the vote.
        Although Gould reiterated that the vote would not mark a change in government policy, he added: “I think it is right to be concerned about what it signifies in terms of the direction of public opinion.”
        He added: “Separate from the narrow question of recognition, I am concerned in the long run about the shift in public opinion in the UK and beyond towards Israel. Israel lost support after this summer’s conflict, and after the series of announcements on settlements. This parliamentary vote is a sign of the way the wind is blowing, and will continue to blow without any progress towards peace.”
        Speaking on background, other UK officials have also suggested that the frustration with Israel and the government of Binyamin Netanyahu is echoed at the top of the British government where David Cameron’s support for Israel’s “right to self defence” during the recent Gaza war was answered after the ceasefire by Israeli settlement announcements – characterised as “galling” for No 10.
        For his part the leader of Israel’s opposition, Isaac Herzog, described the British vote as a defeat for Netanyahu’s increasingly troubled foreign policy that in recent week’s has seen the Israeli prime minister engaged in diplomatic disputes with the US, the UN and Sweden.
        “This is another echoing failure from [Binyamin] Netanyahu and [foreign minister Avigdor] Lieberman,” said Herzog.”

      • eljay
        October 14, 2014, 8:54 am

        >> Mayhemeee: 5. By ignoring this debate and abstaining, rather than voting against it en masse, the UK government effectively handed a symbolic, tokenistic victory to the opposition, and a victory for Palestinian beligerence and terrorism by upping the anti rather striving for a negotiated, secure settlement with Israel.

        Shame on those Palestinians, all uppity and belligerent. Instead of rebelling against an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist “Jewish State” and its 60+ years and ON-GOING campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction, torture and murder, they should be striving to:
        – accept subservience;
        – leave Palestine; or
        – die.

      • American
        October 14, 2014, 11:32 am

        Annie Robbins
        October 14, 2014, 8:12 am

        striving for a negotiated, secure settlement with Israel is a waste of time/lost cause. there’s simply no indication israel is willing to even propose borders for their own state.>>>>>

        AMEN.

        The most f.r.u.s.t.r.a.t.i.n.g STUPIDITY re Israel is how many times does the scorpion have to sting the frogs for the f’ing frogs to understand that no matter what the scorpion promises it is going to sting and drown the frog.

      • Citizen
        December 14, 2014, 8:47 pm

        To my knowledge Israel negotiators have never, ever introduced an actual physical map of their proposed borders during any of the peace talks of record.

    • American
      October 14, 2014, 9:06 am

      @ Mayhem

      I would get to encouraged if I were you….cowards never show up and take a side——as this grows the same cowards won’t show up to defend you either.

    • talknic
      October 14, 2014, 10:27 am

      @ Mayhem
      ” Members of the UK government, which backs a two-state solution, completely abstained from the vote”

      Abstaining has no effect on the vote. Members of the UK Government who voted obviously also believe in a two state solution.

      BTW, Palestine has already been recognized by the majority of the International Comity of Nations and the UN. There are already two states. One is under occupation. The other is “Israel, the Occupying Power” (UNSC res 476)

      “2. The vote is non-binding and it was initiated by a backbencher from the opposition Labour party.”

      Irrelevant who it was initiated by, the majority of voting members voted ‘for’

      “3. The UK House of Commons has 650 MPs of which only 286 actually voted in this debate, 364 did not.”

      Democracy works on the principle of those who vote, not those who abstain

      “4. A number of high-profile figures were reportedly uncomfortable with the motion and did not show up. “

      So, they didn’t vote. Democracy operates on those who DO vote. It could also be that they didn’t want to face Zionists screeching Antisemite if they did the decent thing and voted FOR recognition

      “Neither PM David Cameron nor Labour leader Ed Miliband was in the Commons chamber for the start of the debate.”

      So what?

      “5. By ignoring this debate and abstaining, rather than voting against it en masse, the UK government effectively handed a symbolic, tokenistic victory to the opposition, and a victory for Palestinian beligerence and terrorism by upping the anti rather striving for a negotiated, secure settlement with Israel.”

      Hasbara nonsense.
      A) States are bound by the duties of states per the Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States, which do not allow for belligerence (see hundreds of UNSC resolutions against Israel) and terrorism. IOW the vote pressures Palestine to adhere to the obligations of statehood

      B) What difference does it make if two states are negotiating?

      C) Negotiations mean only one thing. Palestine relinquishing some of their legal rights and a big chunk of their legal territory, so that Israel can circumvent the law under which it is required to withdraw from ALL non-Israeli territory, take all its Israeli citizens, dismantle its purposeful illegal ‘facts on the ground’ and pay for 66 years of belligerence. NONE of which Israel has ever been able to afford.

      You’re yelling at the wrong people . Go spew your heart out to the Zionist Federation who by demanding a separate state destroyed the opportunity of being able to live anywhere in the Jewish People’s historic homeland for Israeli Jews, especially in Palestine. A right all Jews had under Art 7 Lon Mandate for Palestine.

    • lysias
      October 14, 2014, 2:46 pm

      I don’t know if Ed Miliband was in the chamber when debate began, but he certainly did vote for the motion: The Guardian: MPs vote to recognise Palestinian state, adding to pressure on Israel: Ed Miliband among MPs who back symbolic move in emotional debate in House of Commons:

      MPs including the Labour leader, Ed Miliband, have voted to recognise Palestine as a state in a symbolic move that will unnerve Israel by suggesting that it is losing a wider battle for public opinion in Britain.

      The vote of 274 to 12, a majority of 262, on a backbench motion has no practical impact on British government policy and ministers were instructed not to vote. Labour decided to impose a one-line whip, and the Liberal Democrats, like the Conservatives, gave their backbenchers a free vote.

      With Straw joining Miliband in that vote, I think we can take it that Labour was speaking its mind. If a Labour government follows the next election, as is quite possible, that government is likely to adopt policy in line with this vote.

  25. seafoid
    October 14, 2014, 8:55 am

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/14/israel-condemns-british-mps-vote-palestinian-state

    “Ashrawi concluded: “We would like to thank the British people, the thousands who lobbied their members in parliament, and the religious leaders, trade unions, artists, and civil society at-large who stood up in the name of justice. We would also like to thank those Israelis who courageously called upon the British parliament to recognise the state of Palestine.”

    Decent people supporting decent people.
    Why is it so hard for so many Zionist Jews to access this part of themselves ?

    • Shmuel
      October 14, 2014, 9:23 am

      Decent people supporting decent people. Why is it so hard for so many Zionist Jews to access this part of themselves ?

      Because the belief in Palestinian indecency is the cornerstone of the entire edifice. The moment that belief is undermined, everything comes crashing down — a very scary prospect, best avoided at all costs. Better to focus on “tzidkat darkeinu” ( the righteousness of our path), and its flipside, the wickedness of their path. No decency in Ramallah, Gaza or, for that matter, in Westminster — because that would mean …

      • Mooser
        October 14, 2014, 12:08 pm

        “Because the belief in Palestinian indecency is the cornerstone of the entire edifice”

        Schmuel, you would know better, but it has always appeared to me that Zionism requires as a cornerstone a firm conclusion that everybody except “the Jews” is indecent. And it seems to count very heavily on them not being so decent either.

      • Shmuel
        October 14, 2014, 12:18 pm

        t has always appeared to me that Zionism requires as a cornerstone a firm conclusion that everybody except “the Jews” is indecent. And it seems to count very heavily on them not being so decent either.

        Right. The “need” for a state is based on the belief in “eternal anti-Semitism”; the source of the “conflict” — the unwillingness of the Palestinians to allow Jews to “live in their midst”; and the reason behind international support for Palestinian claims — “eternal anti-Semitism” again.

        All of this presumed indecency leads to the conclusion that Jews don’t need to be decent either, hence “it seems to count very heavily on them not being so decent either” — but don’t forget that “they [the non-Jews] started it”.

      • seafoid
        October 14, 2014, 12:18 pm

        “a firm conclusion that everybody except “the Jews” is indecent. And it seems to count very heavily on them not being so decent either. -”

        It takes a lot of gore to get into the appropriate Zionist mood for the mitzvot, Mooser. But because it is the land of Israel even the gore is blessed.

      • American
        October 14, 2014, 12:48 pm

        Well I have been mulling over testing a new policy/antidote to the Jewish vr Evil Others problem.

        The Others would adopt basically the same policy toward Jews that some Jews & the H-Industry hold in regard to The Others.
        That Others are collectively guilty for all Jewish sufferings— but a few rare Righteous Gentiles can be found among them and given awards for their righteousness.

        I am busily compiling The World Wide Others Committee awards list for Righteous Jews right now and will publish as soon as complete.

      • Shmuel
        October 14, 2014, 1:04 pm

        American,

        I see the frustration and the logic, but fighting racism with racism is counter-productive. It is only Jewish supremacists and anti-Semites who divide the world into “Jews and others”, and both groups feed off each other.

      • seafoid
        October 14, 2014, 1:23 pm

        I imagine the fear that Israelis have as a scene where are 2 kids in a room looking at each other. One is an Israeli Jew and the other is not. The second child moves towards the first child who immediately starts screaming and gets into a complete state . The second child hands the first child a flower and smiles. The first child cannot understand what has just happened.

      • just
        October 14, 2014, 4:22 pm

        Well said seafoid.

      • MRW
        October 15, 2014, 6:04 pm

        Shmuel, “I see the frustration and the logic, but fighting racism with racism is counter-productive. “

        On this side of the pond, we call it satire . . . we’re not as good at it, nor as subtle, as the Brits, but our coarseness gets the point across.

      • American
        October 15, 2014, 7:28 pm

        Shmuel
        October 14, 2014, 1:04 pm

        American,

        I see the frustration and the logic, but fighting racism with racism is counter-productive. It is only Jewish supremacists and anti-Semites who divide the world into “Jews and others”, and both groups feed off each other.>>>>>>>

        Evidently you don’t appreciate sarcasm Shmuel.
        When I ridicule something like that you should know by now who the ridicule is directed at.
        I like to point out the absurdness the evil collective mentality.

        I don’t divide Jews and Others –I divide Jews and Jews and Jews and Others and Others and Others.
        Because that is reality—-there’s rotten apples in every basket.
        I haven’t been half as bad btw on Jewish rotten apples as I have been on our own Other rotten apples.
        Wait— I take that back on second thought—- I have been as bad on the rotten apple Jews as I have been on the rotten apple Others, but not any worse—I think I’ve ridiculed them equally.

      • Shmuel
        October 16, 2014, 3:42 am

        On this side of the pond, we call it satire .

        Evidently you don’t appreciate sarcasm

        You mean you aren’t really establishing the World Wide Others Committee? ;-)

      • MRW
        October 16, 2014, 7:03 am

        Shmuel,

        I’m not a committee man, but surely you remember the discussion some years ago here about the American Jewish Sephardic tradition doing combat with the newly arrived Ashkenazi tradition in 19th C American Jewish religious life. The Ashkenazis won, btw.

        The Sephardics, (Sephardim) who made up the majority of American Jews from the early 1500s to the mid-1800s, and who were descendent from the migration out of Spain of the noble and educated Jewish class, didn’t believe in The Other. Their readings of the Talmud and Torah didn’t set up this dichotomy; they resisted and resented the Ashkenazi pilpul because it ‘wasn’t scientific and rational’. I can’t reference files I have in my library about this because they have been wiped from the web. They are from years of reading David Shasha’s monthly email newsletters (in an annoying .doc format ;-)) in which he published Jewish Sephardic scholars discussing these arcane points. Extraordinarily thoughtful commentaries.

        Anyway, I think you accused American unfairly of racism. That’s all I sayin’, my friend.

      • Shmuel
        October 16, 2014, 10:07 am

        MRW,

        I wouldn’t overly idolise those Sephardim or demonise their Ashkenazi counterparts. The former certainly did believe in the Other — like most Americans of their class and skin-colour at the time — and the latter introduced the ethical universalism of German Reform to American shores (including remarkable spiritual leaders such as Rabbi David Einhorn). Furthermore, the 18th and 19th centuries saw a revolution in Ashkenazi Jewish scholarship itself, including (but not limited to) the rediscovery and embracing of Sephardic philosophical and literary traditions.

        I didn’t accuse American of anything. I was just reinforcing a point I believe is often overlooked.

      • American
        October 17, 2014, 2:27 pm

        Shmuel
        October 16, 2014, 3:42 am

        On this side of the pond, we call it satire .

        Evidently you don’t appreciate sarcasm

        You mean you aren’t really establishing the World Wide Others Committee? ;-)
        >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

        No, but I got the idea for it from the Carter Center and the ‘Elders’ as they call themselves that are part of Carter’s group of the older and wiser former US leadership.
        They, being former, not current government people, can call things as they see them no matter who or what the subject is

  26. Talkback
    October 14, 2014, 10:11 am

    So Britain voted for a state in less than 20% of Palestine and to maintain the Zionist Junta regime which keeps Gentiles discriminated and segregated because of their faith. Big Deal.

  27. Kay24
    October 14, 2014, 10:47 am

    It was obvious that many of these MP’s watched the movie “The Gatekeepers”, as some referred to it. It was also noticeable that a couple of them referred to to the fact that Israel had it’s good share of terrorists, at the beginning, mentioning the terrorists groups, and also that a couple of their leaders belonged to some of these groups. This was the response to the existence of Hamas, I guess. The hasbara from a sore Israeli nation might try to downplay this, but those around the world who watched the proceedings, would have got the impression that the UK is mad at Israel, and from the wonderful speeches, learn facts that do not make Israel any more likable. These British leaders condemned the occupation, the illegal settlements, the brutality shown during the massacre in Gaza, and that these poor victims have lived a life of suffering and pain under an oppressive occupier. This vote will encourage others to take the same stand.
    It is a great start.

    • justicewillprevail
      October 14, 2014, 12:26 pm

      The BBC showed it Saturday night. Now that was good timing on someone’s behalf.

      One of the other interesting points about this is that the right wing Government advised its members to abstain – which means that they knew they couldn’t win, so to avoid embarrassment tried to avoid it and downplay its significance. So the zionist supporters who pack the government, turned tail and ran away, unable to muster any arguments or stand in public for what they profess to support. How telling.

  28. just
    October 14, 2014, 11:11 am

    “Was Monday’s Westminster vote on Palestine another milestone in the increasingly precipitous demise of Israel’s political popularity in Europe? The House of Commons vote urging the British government to recognize the state of Palestine is the latest in a series of major political statements from Britain, including scattered decisions by unions to boycott Israel and the huge demonstration in London in August against the Gaza war.

    Jerusalem would like to dismiss the vote as an insignificant nuisance.”

    http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/outside-edge/.premium-1.620658

    Jerusalem?????

    • seafoid
      October 14, 2014, 11:17 am

      I hate that . It’s WEST Jerusalem that’s insane

      Al Quds, East Jerusalem, isn’t

      Ya qudsu
      Ya qudsu

      • just
        October 14, 2014, 11:33 am

        It infuriates me!

        Many thanks for that great video seafoid. Magnificent.

      • seafoid
        October 14, 2014, 12:13 pm

        Here is another Fairuz song I love – Zourouni which means “visit me”

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaFFOxUjnMI

        I always think about poor Quds under the bots and how so many people from the Middle East are banned from visiting the city

      • just
        October 14, 2014, 4:20 pm

        Thank you seafoid.

  29. MHughes976
    October 14, 2014, 11:18 am

    It is a start though only a first step and tied to a negotiated 2ss that isn’t happening. The BBC reportage, still in a way the voice of the British Establishment, has been very muted. I’ve just looked at the website and it’s easier to find the story of a parrot in California that used to speak with a British accent, was lost for four years has returned speaking Spanish – another stinging cultural defeat, I suppose. Much easier to find out about Oscar Pistorius.

    • Mooser
      October 14, 2014, 12:10 pm

      “I’ve just looked at the website and it’s easier to find the story of a parrot in California that used to speak with a British accent, was lost for four years has returned speaking Spanish”

      Must be the “ex-parrot” everybody talks about.

  30. Kay24
    October 14, 2014, 12:17 pm

    Excerpts from Guardian UK article:

    “Speaking on Israeli radio after the vote, the UK ambassador to Israel, Matthew Gould, insisted that Israeli officials should not dismiss the vote.

    Although Gould reiterated that the vote would not mark a change in government policy, he said: “I think it is right to be concerned about what it signifies in terms of the direction of public opinion.”

    He added: “Separate from the narrow question of recognition, I am concerned in the long run about the shift in public opinion in the UK and beyond towards Israel. Israel lost support after this summer’s conflict, and after the series of announcements on settlements. This parliamentary vote is a sign of the way the wind is blowing, and will continue to blow without any progress towards peace.”

    And:
    “For his part, the leader of Israel’s opposition, Isaac Herzog, described the British vote as a defeat for Netanyahu’s increasingly troubled foreign policy that in recent week’s has seen the Israeli prime minister engaged in diplomatic disputes with the US, the UN and Sweden.

    “This is another echoing failure from [Binyamin] Netanyahu and [foreign minister Avigdor] Lieberman,” said Herzog.

    “A cold wind is blowing toward Israel from every corner in the world, but they refuse to deal with the hard facts and are bringing a diplomatic storm,” he said “Netanyahu prefers to confront the whole world, from President Obama to other friends.”

    Efraim Halevy, a former Mossad director and former Israeli ambassador to the EU, blamed the recent war in Gaza, which claimed 2,100 Palestinian lives and that of 73 Israelis.

    He said: “We should view this wave of decisions and announcements as reflecting public opinion. Public opinion is more against Israel after Operation Protective Edge.”

    Indeed a “cold wind” is now blowing from every corner of the world…

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/14/israel-condemns-british-mps-vote-palestinian-state

    Operation Protective Edge may be the beginning of Israel’s downfall in the international arena.
    Well deserved, Israel.

    • Ellen
      October 14, 2014, 1:30 pm

      Prepare for an onslaught of articles and commentary and reporting on “new anti-semitism.” The Zionist project depends on the nurture and perception of threats to keep it going and all in line.

      The world will need strong, articulate and credible voices to counter the perception campaign now underway. And as the campaign to promote “new anti-semitism” cranks up, will the MSM give voice to those who are able to call this campaign out for what it really is?

      • Shmuel
        October 14, 2014, 1:48 pm

        The world will need strong, articulate and credible voices to counter the perception campaign now underway.

        We heard some of those in the House of Commons last night, and I think they are only the tip of the iceberg — currently and even more so in the future, thanks, at least in part to their efforts and the wonderful debate initiated by the very Honourable Grahame Morris.

      • Citizen
        December 14, 2014, 9:26 pm

        Maybe Chris Matthews will drop some vague spittle about it? Or the Daily Show will blush about it with his witty boyish charm?

  31. Bornajoo
    October 14, 2014, 12:23 pm

    @Mayhem; your attitude is exactly what the zionist regime is hoping for. But as you can see you are in a minority just like the 12 no votes, a very tiny minority.

    @Talknic: great reply

  32. piotr
    October 14, 2014, 12:55 pm

    By the way, anyone wondered why Sweden recognized Palestine?

    I recall that Swedish minister of education visited Israel about a year ago, and he was reputed to be the most pro-Israeli member of the Cabinet. As his Israeli counterpart was insisting that Israeli school children should take excursion to Hebron, he decided to make such an excursion too. However, he was in the company of Lutheran activists who invited a local Palestinian to provide his perspective too. On the famous Shuhada street a settler women noticed that and attacked the minister. Nothing happened to the minister because his Swedish body guards were effective, but the military patrol threw them out for having a Palestinian in a non-Palestinian zone, so the exhibit of Apartheid, extremism of the settlers, the support of the military to the extremists, and the obnoxious attitude of GoI were all nicely exhibited.

    Sweden is not the only country that got exposed to Israeli arrogance, sabotage and insults, so perhaps what we see is a dam leaking.

    • Kay24
      October 14, 2014, 1:09 pm

      Interesting turn of events. I was not aware of the ugly display of bigotry and hatred that the Swedish Minister experienced first hand. I guess he had to find out for himself, and it must have been a big shock to realize that the majority of the world is right.
      Israel is imploding in many ways, and have themselves to blame. Slowly but surely the koolaid is wearing off, and eyes and mind are opening. All over but in the US.

      • Citizen
        December 14, 2014, 9:31 pm

        Yeah, all over but in the US, the “land of the free, and home of the brave.” LOL

  33. anthonybellchambers
    October 14, 2014, 1:29 pm

    Daniel Taub, the Israeli ambassador to the UK, said there was “a lot of frustration” there had not been more progress in the peace process.But he said settlements had never been the barrier to reaching agreement.

    “We have a population where there is natural growth,” he said, adding: “Why is it out of the question that in a future Palestinian state, that Jews should not be able to live there side-by-side with their Palestinian neighbours?”

    Answer: because your so called pricetag terrorists burn down our olive groves, demolish our houses and kill us. Is that answer sufficient, Mr Ambassador?

    • talknic
      October 15, 2014, 2:31 am

      LOL ““We have a population where there is natural growth,”

      It’s ‘natural’ for foreigners to illegally settle in other folks territory? No state on the state on the planet allows foreigners such a ‘natural’ right, why should Israelis be allowed what is naturally, normally considered illegal?

      ““Why is it out of the question that in a future Palestinian state, that Jews should not be able to live there side-by-side with their Palestinian neighbours?”

      Maybe because the Jews he refers to are ISRAELIS in non-Israeli territory.

      Daniel Taub is full of ziopoop , like our friends mayhem/hophmi et al

  34. Kay24
    October 14, 2014, 2:22 pm

    Meanwhile France is under the illusion there is going to be successful peace talks, despite the occupier’s arrogant announcements about more illegal settlements, and strong signs it has no genuine interests in letting go of the status quo.

    “REUTERS – France’s foreign minister said on Tuesday that Paris should recognize a Palestinian state only if doing so would help achieve peace, not as a symbolic gesture.

    However, if negotiations between the Palestinians and Israel fail, Paris “would not shirk its responsibilities” but would recognize the Palestinian state, the minister, Laurent Fabius, said in answer to a question in parliament.

    His remarks came a day after British lawmakers voted to recognize Palestine. Their vote will not alter government policy, but it does carry symbolic value as Palestinians pursue international recognition.”
    Haaretz

  35. Jabberwocky
    October 15, 2014, 2:43 am

    Ottaway’s speech is a long time coming but still reflects a lack of understanding of the facts.

    Interesting that he believed that the Holocaust justified giving away someone else’s land (the Palestinian land) – European guilt paid for by another people. This being totally contrary to the UN Charter on self determination. In addition, the partition matter was not settled by the General Assembly – this was simply a proposal. The Arabs wanted one state – something that they may still get!

    In addition, his understanding of the ‘facts’ are incorrect. Israel has generally been the aggressor and Ilan Pappe’s “Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine” clearly uses Ben Gurion’s own diaries to document Zionist plans to murder influential Palestinians and to seize land. Arab armies did not ‘invade’ because Jordan had been paid off and the other rag tag forces simply tried to defend Arab populations from the Israeli onslaught. Made possible by the provision of arms by Zionist supporters in the US and Europe.

    History continues to be distorted by Zionist propaganda, despite honest Israelis like Pappe trying to set the record straight. The only fair future is one state with equal rights for all and the return of the refugees.

    • Citizen
      December 14, 2014, 9:39 pm

      @ Jabberwocky

      Twitter is loaded with accounts daily spewing that distorted Zionist version of history.

  36. 666
    October 15, 2014, 7:37 pm

    this is certainly a positive step in the right direction,but what would the borders of this state be,and who will decide.the british.the swede,s,the un……
    interesting times because a call by britain for a palestinian state will finally expose the real stratergy behind the arab side…… partition or no partition….will ramallah go for broke and claim all of israel or will they settle for something less and claim the west bank only

    • eljay
      October 16, 2014, 8:16 am

      >> 666: … will ramallah go for broke and claim all of israel or will they settle for something less and claim the west bank only

      Partition-borders Israel is not the Palestinians’ to claim for their new state.

      Land outside of Partition-borders Israel is not Israel’s to have or to keep.

  37. Robert P
    October 16, 2014, 6:24 pm

    I’m not taking much consolation from Parliament’s articulate sterility. Nothing was stated that even Phil didn’t understand ten years ago. The framing of the parameters of debate was entirely liberal Zionist two-state and you cannot seriously talk of changing the game without changing the long discredited frame.

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