Lieberman unveils racist peace plan: Pay Palestinians to leave Israel

Israel/Palestine
on 158 Comments

The latest shocker, reported in Haaretz. Maybe the New York Times will cover this before long, and lament its beloved Israeli democracy for even permitting such discussion. By a leading government minister who seeks to be Prime Minister.

Barak Ravid reports:

Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman on Friday published an updated platform for his party, Yisrael Beiteinu, which includes a “peace plan” that calls on the government to encourage the transfer of Israeli Arabs to a Palestinian state by offering them “economic incentives.”

The platform, which may be another sign that Knesset elections are forthcoming, was published on the Yisrael Beiteinu website and reiterates declarations the foreign minister has made over the past year. The diplomatic portion of the platform, or its “peace plan,” does not include clear positions on issues such as Israel’s borders, the status of Jerusalem or settlement construction and the future of existing Israeli settlements.

The only subject that the plan addresses in detail is that of Israel’s Arab citizens. Lieberman repeated his proposal for land and population swaps between Israel and a future Palestinian state, but took it a step further by encouraging Israel to pay Arabs from Jaffa or Acre to move.

Rebecca Vilkomerson said in October that there are fascist trends in Israeli society; Max Blumenthal reported this in his book a year ago; the late Fouzi Al-Asmar reported these Israeli tendencies to the west nearly 40 years ago. Is anybody listening?

A leftwing site, Antifa News, responds:

Liberman proposes out loud what many still don’t dare say – the goal is to clear the country of non-Jews, and Arabs first of all.

We propose something else: clear the country of the fascists instead.

Liberman, Netanyahu, Bennett, you all have foreign passports. Get the hell out, go to Moldova, USA, the Mariana Trench, or anywhere, and just get the hell out of our lives!

Thanks to Ofer.

158 Responses

  1. amigo
    November 28, 2014, 10:04 am

    It,s simple , if you are not Jewish in Israel , you are not wanted.We hate you so much we are willing to pay you to leave.

    I wonder if the Palestinians could pay Lie-berman to leave Palestine.They shouldn,t have to because he is an illegal squatter and a thief and a racist bigot but hell what price peace and security.I would certainly contribute handsomely to any fund that would see this war criminal out of Palestine.Preferably living in Holland in an 8 x 10 self contained 1 room apartment with a very private enclosed exercise yard.He could name it “The Greater Israel”.

  2. OyVey00
    November 28, 2014, 10:32 am

    He’s been advocating this for a while already.

    The problem is that it doesn’t matter whether you live in Israel or the Palestinian territories. As an Arab, your life is shit either way.

    Better apply for asylum in the US or something.

    • Blownaway
      November 28, 2014, 3:17 pm

      You can’t live in Palestine… There is no such place. Maybe Lieberman should focus his energies on creating a Palestinian state and then see who he can pay to move?

    • ckg
      November 28, 2014, 5:34 pm

      OyVey00, Thanks for being as forthright as Lieberman. It’s true that Israel allows Palestinians to live only lives of shit, and the Palestinians can make good cases for asylum in the West. I think most prefer to stay in Palestine, however. After all, a life of shit can be more of a state of mind, an existence that seers one’s conscience, assuming one has one. The life of shit can be lived anywhere, including the clean streets of Tel Aviv and West Jerusalem.

      • seafoid
        November 28, 2014, 5:50 pm

        “Ignorance, allied with power, is the most ferocious enemy justice can have”-James Baldwin.

  3. Boomer
    November 28, 2014, 10:36 am

    Why would you call this a “shocker”? It seems pretty moderate, compared with what’s been going on, and what one might reasonably expect to continue. Having the Americans pay the Palestinians to leave, that’s a solution to the Palestinian question that everyone can get behind. Everyone in Congress and the White House, at least. Everyone who counts. It’s quicker and more humane than killing a few here and there, keeping the others unemployed and “on a diet,” stealing or destroying their homes a few at a time. More equitable too: at least they get paid something.

    • Walid
      November 28, 2014, 10:56 am

      Why would a Palestinian-Israeli living in Jaffa or Acre with plenty of water and electricity, a job, social security and no checkpoints agree to change that for a life of miseries on the West Bank or Gaza? Better for him to stay put; it’s his country after all and in another decade or so, the demographics will be on his side.

  4. a blah chick
    November 28, 2014, 10:38 am

    This is just warmed over Kahane. He tried to set up a fund to pay Palestinians to leave back in the eighties.

    Also all this recent hand wringing over the proposed law to set the concept of a Jewish State into stone is not really about Arabs but about those Jewish sub groups who might face more discrimination. Like that great Torah scholar, Sheldon Adelson, said democracy is not in the Bible, neither is female suffrage or Gay rights.

    • a blah chick
      November 28, 2014, 10:43 am

      Also why does every photo of Lieberman show him looking like he’s getting messages from Moscow from a chip in his head?

      • RoHa
        November 28, 2014, 7:13 pm

        Moscow? The messages are from New York.

      • Marnie
        November 29, 2014, 5:08 am

        Lieberman always has that “telegenic” deer in the headlights look on him. Maybe, like a blah chic, he’s getting messages, but I think the messages he gets are transmitted to his vestigial brain located in his rectal sphincter, which is responsible for that peculiarly startled look on his ugly mug.

    • Horizontal
      November 29, 2014, 9:17 am

      Democracy not in the Bible? How come I keep hearing our nation was founded on Christian Principles?

    • bilal a
      November 29, 2014, 10:35 am

      Something not quite right in a mercenary culture. Everything can be bought votes, deportations, kidneys:

      Report: Israeli suspected of running Ukraine organ trafficking ring
      According to Army Radio, the ring recruited potential kidney donors online, paying $10,000 per kidney, before sending the organs to Israel.
      link to haaretz.com

  5. Walid
    November 28, 2014, 10:39 am

    Last year, Moshe Feiglin proposed to pay each Palestinian on the West Bank $500,000 to permanently leave the West Bank. He figured with the annual cost of maintaining the wall (about $200 million/year) and all the extra security people that work at protecting Jews, $500,000 per Palestinian would be a saving. I wonder what’s in Lieberman’s offer.

    Lieberman a couple of years or so back proposed to swap Palestinian villages in Israel proper for West Bank settlements located on the wrong side of the green line. His plan of hitting 2 birds with one stone didn’t catch on. Now Lieberman is back with a new plan to get rid of Palestinians living in now predominantly Jewish cities.

    These settlers probably stay up all night, every night looking for ways to get rid of the Palestinians.

    • a blah chick
      November 28, 2014, 10:48 am

      One of our hasbarists here tried to argue a few weeks ago that Lieberman’s land swap in the Triangle area wasn’t really ethnic cleansing. I think this article clears up any misunderstandings. But it’ll probably vanish down the memory hole like everything else.

    • Marnie
      November 29, 2014, 4:42 am

      That’s part of the reason they have hair-trigger tempers; it’s hard to deal with things when you’ve been up all night plotting and scheming. Get some sleep!

  6. Horizontal
    November 28, 2014, 10:44 am

    Jewish guy moved in next door to me. Offered him $20 bucks to leave. Got pissed at me for some reason.

    • Walid
      November 28, 2014, 11:12 am

      Probably the el-cheapo offer of 20 bucks insulted him. kidding aside, I lived in a Jewish neighbourhood for 5 years and everybody around me was very nice. Even had a mezuzah at my entrance door but none on the inside.

    • eljay
      November 28, 2014, 11:32 am

      >> Horizontal: Jewish guy moved in next door to me. Offered him $20 bucks to leave. Got pissed at me for some reason.

      Take over half his house, tell him it’s self-(self-)determination. When he refuses to accept your takeover and retaliates – even though you’ve offered him second-class status in your Horizontal and democratic house – accuse him of terrorism and anti-Horizontalism and take over the rest of the house for “security reasons”. After all, it’s yours for the taking because, y’know, he didn’t accept your initial partition offer.

      And remember: You’re the victim in all this.

      • just
        November 28, 2014, 11:47 am

        +1 !

      • a blah chick
        November 28, 2014, 12:43 pm

        You forgot to mention the part about how evil Roman bankers kicked out Horizontal’s ancestors from that house, so he’s only reclaiming what is rightfully his.

      • amigo
        November 28, 2014, 1:01 pm

        “accuse him of terrorism and anti-Horizontalism and take over the rest of the house for “security reasons” ” eljay

        Only problem with that is how do you demolish his house as punishment for giving you dirty looks or protesting and keeping you awake at night.

        I know , build a very high wall in “your” back yard and put him and his family under administrative detention and put him on a diet for 8 years .Cut off the electricity and dump your garbage over the wall and spray skunk juice periodically.He should be ready to love his neighbour by then.

      • Daniel Rich
        November 28, 2014, 6:34 pm

        @ Amigo,

        Q: Only problem with that is how do you demolish his house as punishment for giving you dirty looks or protesting and keeping you awake at night.

        R: OFFS! Show a l’il imagination. Go after the kids’ doll house. Traumatize both parents and kids by tearing it apart one wall at a time and crush whatever ‘lives’ under the roof, so the latter will be less resilient [hopefully] in years to come. Kneecap one of them when s/he’s on to the way to the ‘bathroom’ [that shit hole in the back of the garden] also works wonders and the occasional anti-cockroach canister shot into one of those impressionable child’s faces…, well, don’t get me started. That foray into brutality has an endless smorgasbord of tantalizing possibilities. A wet dream come true, whilst wallowing in a bucket filled with snot.

        Ahhhhhh…, zionism…

      • Horizontal
        November 28, 2014, 7:34 pm

        Forgot to tell you this part — I stole his wallet; now he’s refusing to discuss with me how much of his money I’m willing to give back to him.

        Personally, I think that people who refuse to discuss things reveals a closed, fascist mindset.

    • Elliot
      November 28, 2014, 3:25 pm

      @Horizontal – you just bought into the Zionist myth that Israel = the Jews. As you likely know, not all Jews are Israeli or Zionist. Your snark assumes otherwise.

      • Daniel Rich
        November 28, 2014, 6:39 pm

        @ Elliot,

        R: …not all Jews are Israeli or Zionist. Your snark assumes otherwise.

        R: Undeniably true. Let’s get that out of the way first.

        Could it be that when Chaim and his friends raise $34,000,000 to ‘help’ the [very Apartheid State’s] IDF, some goyim get confused as to who is what, why and how?

        As a wise person once noted; ‘A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a
        broken spirit drieth the bones ‘

      • tree
        November 28, 2014, 7:23 pm

        Your snark assumes otherwise.

        Elliott (and Daniel), I didn’t read Horizontal’s comment that way. I assumed he was just applying the same criterion that Lieberman does, in order to point out its bigoted nature and its natural response, by applying it to his hypothetical Jewish neighbor. Lieberman wants to pay “Arabs” to leave Israel based solely on their ethnicity, not on their politics or ideology. Horizontal would have been changing the criterion by offering to pay someone to leave based on their Zionism rather than their Jewishness.

        He still did get one element wrong, though. He should have moved into his hypothetical Jew’s neighborhood and then offered to pay him to leave. That more accurately describes Lieberman’s situation.

      • Horizontal
        November 28, 2014, 7:38 pm

        Tree, you got it right, although let’s agree that you can’t really ask too much of snark.

      • Mooser
        November 28, 2014, 8:16 pm

        “Tree, you got it right, although let’s agree that you can’t really ask too much of snark.”

        I don’t know about that.
        My snark has been pretty faithful, and done almost everything I asked of it. You should try expecting more from your snark. Give it a challenge, and you might be surprised at what you can ask of it.
        Just don’t forget to duck.

      • Moto
        November 28, 2014, 9:54 pm

        Push comes to shove, most Jews will protect their fellow tribesmen, ZioNazi or not.

      • Mooser
        November 29, 2014, 12:48 pm

        “Push comes to shove, most Jews will protect their fellow tribesmen, ZioNazi or not.”

        Oh yes, even a cursory study of Jewish history will show that an inexorable tribal loyalty, in the face of all temptations or threats, has been the Jewish way since Bible days. Everybody knows that!

    • Mayhem
      November 29, 2014, 5:30 pm

      @horizontal, I’m happy to give you $20 to leave the planet.

  7. John O
    November 28, 2014, 11:31 am

    I am reminded of English comedian Lenny Henry’s response to a politician’s proposal to pay black people £1000 to “go home” – “A thousand quid? That’ll cover my bus fare back to Dudley very nicely.”

    • amigo
      November 28, 2014, 12:41 pm

      “I am reminded of English comedian Lenny Henry’s response to a politician’s proposal to pay black people £1000 to “go home” ” John O.

      Would that be the venerable E(u)noch Powell who got thrown out of English Politics and decided to run in Northern Ireland where his brand of racist bigotry found a willing audience.He would have fitted in in Israel quite comfortably.

      .

      • John O
        November 28, 2014, 1:10 pm

        I don’t know who it was. It sounds a bit too crude for Powell, who was good at the “dog whistle” stuff. Powell famously said, “All political careers end in failure.” It’s not true, of course, and I suspect he said it to make himself feel better, since that was how his career ended. Never the less, there are a few pols, who regularly get mentioned here, about whose careers I sincerely wish that Enoch would be prophetic.

      • just
        November 28, 2014, 4:06 pm

        I think you may mean William Henwood who told him to “go to a black country”… though he was born in the UK…

        “Hunt’s comments came after Henwood responded to a speech by Henry on the lack of black and ethnic minority faces on television with a tweet saying: “[Henry] should emigrate to a black country. He does not have to live with whites.”

        According to the BBC, Henwood also attacked Islam. “Islam reminds me of the 3rd Reich. Strength through violence against the citizens,” he tweeted.

        Henwood defended his comment about Henry in a statement to the BBC. “I think if black people come to this country and don’t like mixing with white people, why are they here? If he [Henry] wants a lot of blacks around go and live in a black country,” he said.”

        link to theguardian.com

      • Bumblebye
        November 28, 2014, 4:35 pm

        @just
        Lennie Henry was born in Dudley, which, along with our Birmingham and Wolverhampton is known here as ‘the Black Country’. Nothing to do with skin – it’s where the industrial revolution was born, so everything became black with soot!

  8. Mooser
    November 28, 2014, 12:14 pm

    “Liberman, Netanyahu, Bennett, you all have foreign passports. Get the hell out, go to Moldova, USA, the Mariana Trench, or anywhere, and just get the hell out of our lives!”

    Why, I do believe this fellow is wishing they would “go missing”.

  9. seafoid
    November 28, 2014, 12:59 pm

    Lieberman is a clown. He isn’t even a proerr Jew. He doesn’t understand the Hebrew Bible.

    Someone who does is Giles Fraser

    link to theguardian.com

    “Of all people, Jews know what it is to live in somebody else’s country, without rights, subject to their laws, subject to their prejudices. The Hebrew Bible itself is a record of the experience and psychological consequences of exile – of being the forced labour of Pharaoh’s megalomaniacal building programmes, of weeping by the rivers of Babylon. And when the story of the Bible finishes and the Jerusalem temple is destroyed by the Romans, a new period of extended exile begins, shaping the collective memory with centuries of religious persecution, collective punishments and eventually mass murder.

    It is not difficult to see why security is extra precious for the Jewish people and why the very idea of a Jewish homeland has a meaning and significance far in excess of that envisioned by the modern democratic nation state.

    But, throughout the Bible at least, this experience of being strangers in strange lands has another consequence: it amplifies the empathy that the writers of the Hebrew scriptures have for migrants and minorities. Thus, for instance, Deuteronomy 10:19 goes as follows: “And you are to love those who are foreigners, for you yourselves were foreigners in Egypt.” Its not a one-off passage. Again and again precisely this formula of expression is used to encourage identification with people who find themselves living in someone else’s country and culture. And this sense of solidarity is such that the Bible insists that both Jews and non-Jews are to be subject to the same laws, the latter having the same legal protections as the former. The Book of Numbers has it thus: “The community is to have the same rules for you and for the foreigner residing among you; this is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. You and the foreigner shall be the same before the Lord. The same laws and regulations will apply both to you and to the foreigner residing among you.”

    This passage clearly demonstrates that the latest move by the Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, is a direct contradiction of the Hebrew Bible, both in word and in spirit. For the new nationality bill that he and others are currently fighting to get through the Knesset is designed to deny national rights to non-Jewish Israeli citizens. In its supporters’ minds it is supposed to be all about expressing the Jewish nature of Israel, that this is a state whose lifeblood is Judaism. And as its detractors have pointed out, this sets Israel’s Jewish character above its democratic character, defying the founding principles of Israel as expressed in the declaration of independence in 1948. This is bad enough, but what makes the move utterly absurd is that it flies in the face of the very religion that it is designed to protect .”

    • John O
      November 28, 2014, 1:12 pm

      I was hoping someone here would link to this excellent article. Thanks, Seafoid.

    • Mooser
      November 28, 2014, 3:02 pm

      “This is bad enough, but what makes the move utterly absurd is that it flies in the face of the very religion that it is designed to protect .”

      ROTFLMSJAO! Of course it does! If it didn’t, how could it possibly protect the Jewish religion?

      • seafoid
        November 28, 2014, 4:09 pm

        From WTF.com

        link to haaretz.com

        Chief Military Rabbi Brig. Gen. Rafi Peretz recently said the Temple Mount has no religious significance to Muslims and questioned their affiliation to the site.

        “Jerusalem isn’t mentioned in the Koran even once. Not even in a hint. The Arabs are imagining it,” Peretz said at a lecture at the Otzem Pre-Military Torah Academy in Moshav Naveh earlier this month. The lesson was posted on the Kipa website.

        Talking about the recent events on the Temple Mount and the Arab protests that the site was being taken over by Jews, Peretz said “the only mosque any holiness is attributed to is Al-Aqsa. The rest of the Temple Mount has no religious significance.”

        “What is the Al-Aqsa Mosque?” Peretz asked. “It says in the Koran ‘make me a mosque on the edge.’ Al-Aqsa is on the edge. The edge of what? Mecca? The edge of the Arabian Peninsula. When they bow, they bow to Mecca but their backside is turned to the Temple Mount, because the edge for them is the edge of the Arabian Peninsula. So what are they doing on the Temple Mount?

        “Ninety percent of the Arabs don’t know a thing about the Koran. I tell you with full authority. We know better than many of them,” he said.

      • just
        November 28, 2014, 5:08 pm

        I read that last nite, seafoid. No respect, no knowledge, no shame.

        I really appreciated his “full authority”/not!

        I am sure that Ofer Winter readily receives Peretz’ blessings and mentoring.

        Messianic liars and massacrists.

      • seafoid
        November 28, 2014, 5:36 pm

        “Liars and massacrists”

        I can’t believe how well Killer Mike’s words about Ferguson fit to Israel

        link to youtube.com

        “But I can promise you today, if I die when I walk off this stage tomorrow, I’ll let you know this: it is not about race, it is not a class, it’s not about colour, it’s about what they killed him for. It’s about poverty, it’s about greed, and it’s about a war machine. It’s about a war machine that uses you. So as I go tomorrow, I might go the day after, the one thing I want you to know is that it’s us against the motherfucking machine!””

        and J-live

        link to youtube.com

        The radio is quid pro quo
        The videos they show
        All dealing with gangstas pimps and hos (or IDF, Bar Refaeli and Shoah)
        I’m not even trying to turn up my nose
        But I know we got so much more to offer on the low
        They run you like a remote control

      • Horizontal
        November 28, 2014, 7:45 pm

        “Ninety percent of the Arabs don’t know a thing about the Koran. I tell you with full authority. We know better than many of them . . . ”

        Those are mighty specific numbers. I wonder if it was a push-poll?

      • David Gerald Fincham
        November 29, 2014, 5:35 pm

        Chief Military Rabbi Brig. Gen. Rafi Peretz should take a look at Wikipedia. Jerusalem is mentioned in the Koran several times, as Al-Aqsa, the furthest mosque. Muslims prayed facing Al-Aqsa before they prayed facing Mecca.

      • just
        November 29, 2014, 5:48 pm

        Thanks, David.

      • Walid
        November 29, 2014, 6:03 pm

        “Jerusalem is mentioned in the Koran several times, as Al-Aqsa, the furthest mosque. Muslims prayed facing Al-Aqsa before they prayed facing Mecca. ”

        Sorry, David, it wasn’t and the al-Aqsa was built about 70 years after the Muslims were instructed to stop praying facing Jerusalem and to stop fasting with the Jews. The Quran mentions the al-Aqsa in 17:1 as the place where the Prophet travelled in his night vision. Al-Aqsa means the farthest. It was only much later that companions of the Prophet and interpreters of the Quran said that the farthest place geographically (aqsa in Arabic) was Jerusalem.

      • RoHa
        November 30, 2014, 2:40 am

        Of course, the fact that it isn’t mentioned in the Quran doesn’t mean it’s not holy. (Especially if we use the RoHa scale.). Holiness comes from being regarded as holy by the believers.

        The Vatican isn’t mentioned in the New Testament, but Catholics regard it as holy, so it’s holy, see?

        Jerusalem is mentioned in the NT, and is where the most important event took place, so Christians should have few dibs on the place, too.

      • just
        December 1, 2014, 4:35 am

        RoHa~ you make much sense.

        (You’re funny, too!)

  10. just
    November 28, 2014, 1:55 pm

    Well, it’s all out in the open now.

    It’s somewhat of a relief…now when I ask folks why they support Israel, I have many vicious actions and legislation that I can point to.

    All the lies that Israel has told and that many have eagerly and voraciously swallowed and repeated are now exposed for what they are– LIES.

    Not a democracy, not an ally, not victims, etc.

    • just
      November 28, 2014, 2:01 pm

      The train wreck is speeding up, ever closer to the cliff.

      • seafoid
        November 28, 2014, 3:17 pm

        Bought a ticket for a runaway train
        Like a madman laughin’ at the rain
        Little out of touch, little insane
        Just easier than dealing with Holocaust pain

        Runaway train never comin’ back
        Wrong way on a one way track
        Seems like Israel should be getting somewhere
        Somehow it’s neither here nor there

        link to youtube.com

      • just
        November 28, 2014, 3:22 pm

        I love that song~ your lyrics are awesome.

      • seafoid
        November 28, 2014, 3:57 pm

        It really is a fantastic song. Not that many from 20 years ago have that.

    • ziusudra
      November 30, 2014, 9:56 am

      Greetings Mr Liberman,
      ….pay Falesteeni to leave Israel….
      When a Zio say Israel, it is a vibrant, rubberband, flexible size of whatever their Imagination constrews.
      Do you mean the 9K Sq Km where all Isareli Israelis reside or 21.0 K Sq Km of contiguous Falesteena?
      ziusudra

  11. just
    November 28, 2014, 3:01 pm

    Carolina Landsmann gets it:

    “Hysterical Knesset legislation is the harbinger of total chaos

    It’s frightening to see a society that removes the masks from itself and exposes its ugliness. Now’s the time to start a genuine struggle over our image.

    ….It’s frightening to see a society that removes the masks from itself and exposes its ugliness, but we must not confuse law with order: The methodical behavior of the state, which is manifested in hysterical legislation and in reinforcing its military and police presence, is evidence of the beginning of total chaos, a general system collapse.

    The Jewish fundamentalism that has taken over the state has nothing to do with religious faith – the proof is that the ultra-Orthodox Jews are not part of it; the hawkish nature of the government is not supported by the defense establishment – the proof lies in the voices of its senior officials who are speaking out against it (Yuval Diskin, Yoram Cohen, Shabtai Shavit, Amos Yadlin, Police Commissioner Yohanan Danino); and of course, the coalition – whose only accomplishment is the fact that it was formed, and whose members are addicted to the toxic glue that binds them.

    Society itself also looks as though it has lost all restraint. It’s particularly interesting to see how overnight MKs and ministers from the extreme right become the object of the hatred that they themselves disseminated, in the rare instances when they adopt a different language, for example when they protested against the dismissal of Arab workers in Ashkelon.

    Israel is also ignoring the possibility that the world will turn against it. The special and protective attitude toward Israel is not only the product of vested interests, it is connected to the history of the world’s relationship with the Jews. But if Israel continues to follow its present path and registers a new category of neo-democratic oppression in its name, the world will not hesitate to ostracize it.

    The European countries are already in a process of recognizing the Palestinian state and are beginning to consolidate sanctions against Israel. And United States President Barack Obama, despite his defeat in the midterm elections and perhaps because of it, has nothing left to loose; in other words: He is free. That’s why he is allowing himself to grant legal status to millions of immigrants, and that’s why it isn’t improbable that he will decide to remove the American veto, which checks any initiative to place a limit on Israel’s whims. America sent the first signals of that when it expressed reservations about the nation-state law…..”

    link to haaretz.com

    Remove the odious, hypocritical veto, Mr. Obama!!!

    • seafoid
      November 28, 2014, 3:11 pm

      Lieberman has no idea how this is going to play out in Galut.
      “We are Jews, we can do what we like” goes down like a lead balloon in civilized countries.

    • chet
      November 28, 2014, 3:47 pm

      Just one non-vetoed UNSC resolution — that Israel honor the provisions of the Geneva Convention and dismantle the illegal settlements in the Occupied Territories.

      The arrogant Israelis would of course ignore it — then the consequences: world-wide sanctions and the paralyzing of the pariah state.

    • Boomer
      November 28, 2014, 5:38 pm

      Re: “Remove the odious, hypocritical veto, Mr. Obama”

      Don’t hold your breath:

      “Israel and the United States are trying to dissuade the nearly 200 states that are party to the Fourth Geneva Convention from convening a special session in mid-December to address conditions in the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem, Israeli and Western diplomats told Haaretz Wednesday.”

      link to haaretz.com

    • RoHa
      November 28, 2014, 7:21 pm

      “has nothing left to loose;”

      Nor has he anything left to lose.

    • Horizontal
      November 28, 2014, 7:49 pm

      It’s frightening to see a society that removes the masks from itself and exposes its ugliness.

      That, for me, is the money shot. It rarely gets as clear as this, at least here in the US of A.

  12. bilal a
    November 28, 2014, 3:53 pm

    What would be wrong with a voluntary market exchange, citizenship in Jordan with 50K seed money, or stay in Israel.

    The exchange could be at a floating rate, and those who were best equipped to emigrate would bid the market up first, the exchange rate could be printed daily in Israeli-Jordanian newspapers.

    Indeed this could be a model for population transfers globally, with an unsubsidized negative payment to emigrate to wealthy economies (investor visas).

    This has got to be better than a situation where Jews fear praying in their synagogues and Arabs fear the police. As Merkel has pronounced, multiculutralism has failed everywhere.

    frum: Germany’s Merkel is right — multiculturalism has failed
    link to cnn.com

    • bilal a
      November 28, 2014, 3:56 pm

      Becker and Lazear on Market-Based Immigration Reform

      This plan represents a dramatic departure from the current practice used to award visas and green cards to would-be immigrants. While the Becker/Lazear plan may sound provocative at first pass, the idea is backed up by much economic logic. In situations where demand for a resource greatly exceeds the supply of it, utilizing the price system is an efficient way to allocate the scarce resource. By selling the resource, those who value it the most highly will be willing to pay a high price, and those who value the resource less highly will not. This ensures that the resource in question goes to where it is most valued, which is the efficient outcome. And the efficient outcome is the desired outcome, at least in the field of economics, because increased efficiency drives economic growth.

      link to bushcenter.org

    • Annie Robbins
      November 28, 2014, 5:39 pm

      this could be a model for population transfers globally,

      isn’t this, in part, how israel enticed lots of russians to move down to settle their colonial outposts in occupied palestinian territory? giving them awesome RE deals? and 50k doesn’t get one very far in todays world.

      • just
        November 28, 2014, 6:08 pm

        I’m not sure that it wasn’t only Russian Jews that were ‘enticed’…

        now it’s also Ukrainians.

        link to jpost.com

      • Mooser
        November 28, 2014, 7:19 pm

        This pits me in mind, too, of the Native American “removals” practiced at one time by the US government. Payments were usually promised as a reward for “removal”. And how did that work out?

      • Horizontal
        November 28, 2014, 7:51 pm

        I think they also threw in a smallpox blanket to sweeten the deal.

      • Mooser
        November 28, 2014, 8:20 pm

        In many, probably most, instances the promised payments were not forthcoming.

  13. just
    November 28, 2014, 4:26 pm

    The runaway train (h/t seafoid) platform is awfully crowded~ lots of folks are jumping off!

    “Welcome, Diaspora Jews, to the Israel you’ve been avoiding

    For too long, Diaspora Jews have been defending an imaginary Israel. The real one looks much more like the one described in the controversial nation-state bill

    …….Israel, in many ways, has always been more Jewish than democratic. Even without a law like this one to codify it, its legal and legislative systems have often put the needs of Israel’s Jewish population before its adherence to democratic principles. Arab and other non-Jewish citizens of Israel have been systemically discriminated against for decades when it comes to access to education, land, infrastructure, water and political representation.

    Even without legislative pieces that sound as if they’ve been lifted from the personal diaries of Daniel François Malan, Israel has a legal system that has allowed hundreds of Jewish communities to reject non-Jewish applicants for housing on the basis of “social suitability.”

    Arab Israelis didn’t need new reasons to feel like second-class citizens, even if the current nation-state bill makes it all but official. The bill is not the ruination of democracy in Israel – that ship has sailed long ago.

    This is not to say that this bill isn’t bad, or insignificant. It is bad because it codifies and institutionalizes Israel’s worst faults as a nation. It is bad because it lays the foundations for more discriminatory policies and legislation against non-Jews. It is bad because at the heart of it lies great political cynicism, a pandering to nationalist voters prior to the Likud primaries and an election that is expected soon.

    “I miss the racists of old,” said Balad MK Jamal Zahalka during a Knesset debate in 2008. “At least they weren’t opportunists who sought cheap popularity.” This week Zahalka was forcibly removed from the Knesset’s podium by vice-speaker of the Knesset Moshe Feiglin, after calling the Likud MK a “fascist.” Any such act against the many Jewish MKs who have called Arab and left-wing MKs “traitors,” “terrorist-lovers” and worse over the years is unthinkable, of course.

    So no, the new nation-state bill isn’t the apocalypse. Israel has been a Jewish state with a democratic hobby for a very long time. In fact, something like this should have been expected by anyone who didn’t turn a blind eye to Israel’s behavior in recent decades.

    But it does have a silver lining: The proposed bill is so blatant, so clear, that it forces even Israel’s most adamant blind supporters to open their eyes.

    In other words: Welcome, Diaspora Jews, to the Israel you’ve been avoiding. For too long, you have been defending an imaginary Israel. The real one looks much like the one described in the new nation-state bill.

    For many years, the money, influence and unwavering support of Jews abroad, particularly those in America, has enabled many of the behaviors that contributed to the kind of arrogant solipsism that made Israeli politicians believe they can get away with anything. Much of it was done in the name of an ideal Israel, an Israel that never really existed, a Jewish democratic country that could balance its dual identities.

    Now that this image is being revealed for the illusion that it is, Diaspora Jews can use their considerable influence on Israeli politics to help bring about true democracy in Israel.

    It’s not going to be an easy battle. In his speech in the Knesset on Wednesday, Netanyahu remained adamant about his intentions to pass his version of the bill, saying to his detractors in a theatrically-shocked voice, “I don’t understand what your problem is.”

    And, really, what is their problem? It’s not like Netanyahu is changing anything. He’s simply lifting the veil.”

    link to haaretz.com

    • seafoid
      November 28, 2014, 4:49 pm

      the real Israel is real ugly

      link to haaretz.com

      Israel to urge court: Drop Palestinian farmers’ complaint against settler attacks
      Israeli prosecutors will explain to the High Court of Justice on Monday why it’s hard to protect two elderly people from attacks by young Jews.

      link to haaretz.com

      “As the World Bank stated specifically in a report published in March, since 1994, and parallel to the Oslo process, there has been a consistent decline in the Palestinian productive sector and its ability to export, due to Israel’s policy of imposing restrictions. ”

      link to ynetnews.com
      Hassan Usruf, an Arab-Israeli man in his 40s who works as a street cleaner for the Tel Aviv Municipality, claimed he was attacked early Sunday morning on the city’s seaside promenade by a group of more than 20 Jewish youngsters

      link to haaretz.com
      “Arafat Jaradat, 30, died while under interrogation by the Shin Bet security service. Every week dozens if not hundreds of Palestinians start down the road he began on February 18.
      Dozens of Israelis whose names are unknown are on a parallel track: the soldiers who make the arrest in the dead of night, the military doctor who examines the new detainee, Shin Bet interrogators in their changing shifts; Israel Prison Service guards, workers at the prison clinic, and the judge who extends the remand.
      True, thousands of others take this road or sometimes a longer and harder one – and stay alive. This is probably what the Shin Bet and the prison service will say in their defense. But from the Palestinian perspective, every stop on the road of detention and interrogation involves enormous physical and psychological pain that the army, the police, the Shin Bet and the prison service inflict intentionally.
      This goes well beyond the suffering that should be caused by taking away a person’s liberty and issuing an indictment. For years, Palestinian detainees and prisoners have complained about sleep deprivation, painful and prolonged handcuffing, humiliation, beatings and medical neglect. By international standards, this is torture.
      Jaradat was not a ticking bomb. He was arrested on suspicion of throwing stones and an incendiary device at Israeli targets. After three days of interrogation the police asked the court (in the name of the Shin Bet) to extend his remand for another 15 days for questioning. The remand hearing took place on Thursday, February 21, at the Shin Bet’s Kishon interrogation facility, in front of a military judge, Maj. David Kadosh. The judge ordered the remand for 12 days.
      Unclear confession
      Kamil Sabbagh, an attorney for the Palestinian Authority’s Prisoner Affairs Ministry, asked the police investigator at the hearing whether there were other suspicions against his client; he was told there were not. He asked whether Jaradat had confessed, and the police investigator answered: “partially.” Sabbagh concluded that Jaradat had confessed to throwing stones.
      Experience shows that the additional days of interrogation – many, considering the minor nature of the offenses – were not intended merely to extract more confessions, but to get Jaradat to implicate others or to gather personal information, even of an embarrassing nature, to use in the future. From reports by detainees to their attorneys, it’s clear that sleep deprivation combined with painful and prolonged handcuffing is very common. As we learn at military court and elsewhere, people confess to things they haven’t done or implicate others falsely, only to be allowed to sleep. ”

      It’s a long way from parading in Manhattan

      link to youtube.com

  14. ivri
    November 28, 2014, 5:36 pm

    It`s all a farce. Nobody will pay a penny for that or leave – in reality the Israeli Arabs are happy to see the West coming to them instead of them having to emigrate to it and live in slums in Europe. It`s all talk. That is also why a lot in Israel was built by Arab construction workers – they are glad to have employment near home and not live in the misery conditions of the Arab countries around. In practical terms what`s goes on in Israel is a deal between Jews and Arabs, which works for both and that is also why it has worked for so long. The next deal, still in progress, is with the Arabs in West-Bank – it`s trickier but for the very same reason as above it will materialize too. In the meantime a lot of the construction in the West-Bank is done too by Arab workers.

    • ivri
      November 28, 2014, 5:57 pm

      If you are from Libya or Morocco and want to get to Europe you pay a lot to sea smugglers and risk your life – and many still do that. As an Israel Arab all you have to do to get there is go to a travel agent and buy a ticket – no visa needed. Yet they don`t go. Does it not proves something?

      • just
        November 28, 2014, 7:18 pm

        Are you ok, ivri?

        Does it hurt when you think these things up? What is an “Israel Arab”?

        (I share Annie’s consternation @ 6:10 pm)

      • eljay
        November 29, 2014, 7:41 am

        >> ivreee: If you are from Libya or Morocco and want to get to Europe you pay a lot to sea smugglers and risk your life – and many still do that. As an Israel Arab all you have to do to get there is go to a travel agent and buy a ticket – no visa needed. Yet they don`t go. Does it not proves something?

        Non-Jewish Israelis want to remain in – or, if they’re refugees, want to return to – their geographic homeland. Meanwhile, Jewish Israelis are emigrating to Germany for cheaper pudding. That proves something.

    • Annie Robbins
      November 28, 2014, 6:10 pm

      oh god. what are we ever going to do about this mental condition you’re afflicted with ivri.

      • Mooser
        November 28, 2014, 7:25 pm

        “oh god. what are we ever going to do about this mental condition you’re afflicted with ivri.”

        Annie, four out of five dentists who chew gum are working over a hot stove night and day to invent Zioloft, the medicament indicated for Ziocaine Syndrome attacks.
        So far, no luck, but they made one hell of a “Sea-foam Dream” the other night. Delicious.

      • ivri
        November 29, 2014, 3:50 am

        @Annie
        It would have been no problem if it was me but the same applies to most of your own country people – particularly those of influence – they see the same thins and understand it the same way.

      • Mooser
        November 29, 2014, 11:41 am

        “It would have been no problem if it was me but the same applies to most of your own country people – particularly those of influence – they see the same thins and understand it the same way.”

        “ivri” if you are trying to say that Israel is the model and hope of right-wingers and fascists around the world, you’re too late. Schlomo Sand has already noted that.

    • Shingo
      November 28, 2014, 8:30 pm

      in reality the Israeli Arabs are happy to see the West coming to them instead of them having to emigrate to it and live in slums in Europe.

      What slums Ivri? Israel has a dreadful poverty problem and more than it’s share of slums.

      That is also why a lot in Israel was built by Arab construction workers

      The reason a lof of Israel was built by Arab construction workers is for cheap labor.

    • talknic
      November 29, 2014, 12:27 am

      @ ivri “That is also why a lot in Israel was built by Arab construction workers – they are glad to have employment near home and not live in the misery conditions of the Arab countries around.”

      Oh my you really are a sick lil’ puppy. A) They’re not citizens of the Arab countries around and; B) Faced with massive un-employment in the West Bank link to worldbank.org they’ll take any job, even risk their lives by illegally entering Israel.

      A quarter of the Palestinian workforce remains unemployed—including one of every three workers in Gaza. A quarter of the Palestinian population lives in poverty, with rates in Gaza being twice as high as that in the West Bank. The economic slowdown has resulted in fiscal pressures that put at risk the provision of public services by the Palestinian Authority.

      The PA is facing a grim fiscal situation. With a higher than expected budget deficit and donors’ expected support in 2014 less than last year’s amount, the PA is trying to reverse the situation through steps to raise domestic revenues and control expenditures. A dynamic private sector can generate the sustainable growth needed. However, restrictions put in place by the Government of Israel continue to stand in the way of potential private investment. Access to Gaza remains highly controlled and much of Area C, comprising 60 percent of the West Bank, is inaccessible to Palestinians. link to web.worldbank.org,,contentMDK:20149751~menuPK:294370~pagePK:1497618~piPK:217854~theSitePK:294365,00.html

    • seafoid
      November 29, 2014, 1:51 am

      “In practical terms what`s goes on in Israel is a deal between Jews and Arabs, which works for both and that is also why it has worked for so long. -”

      Wasn’t it the same for the dhimmis, Ivri? If it ain’t broke don’t fix it
      and child abuse- if it didn’t work it wouldn’t happen, right?

      • Mayhem
        November 29, 2014, 4:47 pm

        Tell me Seafoid how much financial compensation did those Jews receive who were forced to leave their property in Arab countries because of persecution?

      • Annie Robbins
        November 29, 2014, 11:12 pm

        about the same amount holocaust survivors got after the israeli government grifted it all to build their state. did you know israel tried to work out a “deal” w/the gov of iraq to trade palestinians for iraqi jews? and when iraq said no the underground zionist militias made sure those bombs guaranteed emigration from iraq. zionists can’t wipe their hands of that. it was no coincidence. plenty of blame to spread around on that one.

      • Mayhem
        November 30, 2014, 2:37 am

        @Robbins –
        “Since Iraq would keep the Jews’ property, Sharrett worried that the first immigrants from Iraq might expect the Israeli government to compensate them for their losses – leaving Israel with the double burden of compensating nonrepatriated Palestinians and Iraqi immigrants”

        Jewish Property Claims Against Arab Countries by Michael R. Fischbach (Columbia University Press) 13 Aug 2013 

      • talknic
        November 30, 2014, 7:05 pm

        @ Mayhem “Tell me Seafoid how much financial compensation did those Jews receive who were forced to leave their property in Arab countries because of persecution?”

        A) It’s NORMAL for countries at war to intern or expel possible fifth columnists and to freeze their assets. It’s also normal to allow their release or return after hostilities….

        B) Remembering that people who meanwhile opt for citizenship in countries other than the country of return are no longer refugees, can you estimate how many applications might have been made for compensation by Jewish folk who’re refugees? Thx …. I’ll wait

      • talknic
        November 30, 2014, 7:22 pm

        @ Mayhem “Since Iraq would keep the Jews’ property, Sharrett worried that the first immigrants from Iraq might expect the Israeli government to compensate them for their losses – leaving Israel with the double burden of compensating nonrepatriated Palestinians and Iraqi immigrants”

        Interesting lnk Mayhem. It actually shows Israeli duplicity over “frozen” and available Jewish assets in Arab states, in order to avoid compensating the Palestinians (as required by law)
        link to books.google.com.au

        Your cherry picked snippet only shows us how low you and your kind are willing to go. You must be very proud!!!

  15. seafoid
    November 28, 2014, 5:48 pm

    This idea says Israel does not understand the Palestinians. Never did.
    The very act of living in Palestine is resistance. The land is life.
    Balata refugee camp is better than the EU. You are there with your people, your language, the scent of Palestine. And the millions who would swap their place to live in Balata refugee camp, just to be there.

    There she is, over that fence

    link to youtube.com

    And you would give that up for 50K ? And never hear cheef halich again ?
    Are you nuts ?

    link to youtube.com

    • just
      November 28, 2014, 6:13 pm

      You nailed it again, seafoid! Now you got me tearing up with your wisdom/poetry.

      Though I appreciate Phil’s title…this is ethnic cleansing, and illegal in every/any way you look at it. Seems that almost everything Israel does to the Palestinians is…

      • bintbiba
        November 29, 2014, 8:21 am

        Seafoid…. Thank you. The first part is the “Blues ” par excellence ! Plumbs the depths of sadness and love . And the children are too beautiful for words !!

      • seafoid
        November 30, 2014, 1:30 pm

        Bintbiba

        Dante Alighieri said that only 3 things of heaven remain on earth- the stars at night, the flowers in daytime and childen’s eyes.

        There is something very special about Palestinian eyes. Noor al ain.
        Very few brainwashed Ziobots have it.

    • jon s
      November 30, 2014, 5:08 am

      Annie, you’re repeating the fallacy that the emigration of the Jews of Iraq was due to “Zionist bombs”.
      So I’ll also recycle a previous comment of mine:

      Iraq effectually forced the Jews to leave:
      – the 1941 pogrom, known as the the “farhud” traumatized the community.
      – Iraq’s intervention in the 1948 war brought anti-Jewish incitement to a fever-pitch.
      -The Iraqi regime took steps to make life in Iraq impossible for the Jewish community: they were dismissed from the civil service , boycotted economically, bank accounts were frozen , access to public facilities, including schools and hospitals – denied. Then the regime declared that the Jews could leave, within a one – year deadline, while relinquishing their property. In this situation the Jews scarcely needed “encouragement” (in the form of bombings ) to leave. It was pretty clear that they had to.
      -Initially the Iraqi goverment demanded that the flights evacuating the Jews touch down in Cyprus , in order to maintain the fiction that they are not enabling immigration to Israel. In the later stages the pretense was dropped and flights arrived directly from Iraq to Israel.

      • jon s
        November 30, 2014, 5:19 am

        A recent feature film on the subject:link to youtube.com

      • Annie Robbins
        November 30, 2014, 5:38 am

        Annie, you’re repeating the fallacy…So I’ll also recycle a previous comment of mine

        oh great, that will give you the opportunity to respond to hostage, shingo, and walid’s, counter arguments from last time. you slunk out— failed to respond.

        go for it: link to mondoweiss.net

      • talknic
        November 30, 2014, 7:31 pm

        jon s Strange …. It’s NORMAL to expel or intern possible 5th columnists and freeze their assets while at war. The US, UK, Australia, interned, expelled and froze the assets of their own citizens of Japanese and German heritage in ww2. It’s also normal to unfreeze, release and allow their return IF they haven’t opted for citizenship elsewhere in the interim, thereby losing their refugee status.

        You should read Mayhem’s link… link to books.google.com.au it’s quite interesting!

      • Annie Robbins
        November 30, 2014, 9:46 pm
  16. Daniel Rich
    November 28, 2014, 6:19 pm

    “… and if you won’t leave on your own accord…, well… we have ways to encourage you to get tfo!!!” – Josef Weavermann, military source not allowed to speak to the press

    • bintbiba
      November 29, 2014, 9:00 am

      Well… we left from terror in ’47-’48. I cling to the belief that my great-great grandchildren will one day be compensated for the the loss of my father’s life’s work and property…by your great great grandchildren , Mr. Josef Weavermann . Truth and Justice will emerge one day .

      • Bornajoo
        November 29, 2014, 9:07 am

        +1 Bintbiba!
        I hope you don’t have to wait that long. You’ve waited FAR TOO LONG ALREADY!

    • jon s
      December 7, 2014, 5:06 am

      The internment of Japanese-Americans during WW2 is a dark , racist, stain in American history (one of many). Too bad that talknic is justifying it.

      As to those accusations made by the late Naim Giladi , among others, see here, from a pro-Palestinian source.:
      link to palestineremembered.com

      • talknic
        December 28, 2014, 11:15 am

        @ jon s
        “The internment of Japanese-Americans during WW2 is a dark , racist, stain in American history (one of many). Too bad that talknic is justifying it”

        Stating a fact is not justification. Too bad you have to make false accusations. Showing people just how low Israeli propagandists will sink, breaking one of the basic tenets of Judaism is really quite stupid. You must be so proud

  17. MHughes976
    November 28, 2014, 6:34 pm

    It’s quite important that all ways of winkling the Palestinians out of Palestine, even the most brutal ones, would be very expensive and can’t really happen until the bill can be attached to the foot of a carrier pigeon flying west with some hope of payment. That time has not yet come.

    • seafoid
      November 29, 2014, 1:59 am

      I presume the EU would be expected to pay 50K per head. I can’t see the bots paying for anything.

    • ritzl
      November 29, 2014, 2:09 am

      Heh. Good one, MHughes.

      It would be REALLY interesting to see that appropriations bill floated in the US Congress. Cynical me thinks that if it were to be, it might actually come to the floor (both houses) for some sort of debate.

      Preamble: $20B to entice Israel’s “Arab” population to leave (Subtext: Fuck you poor people who pay taxes but can’t afford health care).

      One thing’s metaphysically guaranteed, with its teetering economy burdened by settler subsidies and occupation costs, Israel isn’t going to put up the money for A-LIE’s little scheme.

      • Horizontal
        November 29, 2014, 9:31 am

        It would be REALLY interesting to see that appropriations bill floated in the US Congress. Cynical me thinks that if it were to be, it might actually come to the floor (both houses) for some sort of debate

        Wouldn’t they do what they always do with these odious things? Slap some totally meaningless, opposite-reality name on the measure, like the Peace in the Middle East Anti Terrorism Arab Transportation Enhancement Act of 2014 and ram it through on unanimous consent.

        No one but us here will ever know about it and what coverage it might get in the MSM, will be breathlessly reported by the likes of Wolf Blitzer.

        I’d love to have a real debate on anything involving Israel like Britain recently had. Cover it wall to wall on C-SPAN. We need that to happen. Don’t see this doing that, unfortunately.

  18. Bornajoo
    November 28, 2014, 6:39 pm

    You couldn’t make this guy up. What a clown. But I’m starting to believe that the likes of Bennett and lieberman are actually good for the Palestinian cause. These 2 fascists along with their fellow right wing cronies are no holds barred, in your face and direct. They are at least revealing their true agenda and it’s starting to spew out thick and fast. They are laying their cards on the table without the smoke and mirrors and with no pretense about their ultimate objectives

    Maybe this is how obvious it has to be. Maybe this is how in your face it has to be and maybe this is how simplified it has to be for everyone to finally be able to see the reality of what is really happening.

    I can’t wait for the debate to start about how much to pay the Arabs to leave. And they’ll probably start arguing over the figure!

    Yes, that runaway train (thanks for that Seafoid) is finally on the way to the cliff edge with Lieberman and Bennett’s feet flat down on the gas pedal. Israel needs to self destruct for change to come. No more Oslo/peace process lies please, all that does is prolong the never ending agony.

    • just
      November 28, 2014, 6:52 pm

      Yes!

      Don’t forget the conductor of said train– Netanyahu.

      Then there’s Barkat, Shaked, Feiglin, Ya’alon, etc. And 95% of Israelis who supported the massacre in Gaza.

    • Nevada Ned
      November 29, 2014, 2:14 am

      You say
      “But I’m starting to believe that the likes of Bennett and lieberman are actually good for the Palestinian cause. These 2 fascists along with their fellow right wing cronies are no holds barred, in your face and direct. They are at least revealing their true agenda and it’s starting to spew out thick and fast. They are laying their cards on the table without the smoke and mirrors and with no pretense about their ultimate objectives – See more at: link to mondoweiss.net

      Reminds me of an opinion I heard from an African-American friend, whose family came from Mississippi. He said he sometimes had more respect for southern whites from Mississippi who were open and honest racists, compared with northerners who pretended to oppose racism while tacitly supporting it.

      Over the decades, Israeli leaders, often very media-savvy, have attempted to impose their own narrative, which is well known: Israel struggles to survive as a democracy, and developed without pushing anybody out of the way. In more recent decades, hard-line right wingers have been more open and honest with their racism, and care little about the PR consequences. The Palestinians have started to tell their side of the story, with an additional boost by a growing number of US Jews (see Max Blumenthal and Goliath). People like Ben Gurion and Golda Meir carefully constructed a veil around Israel’s reality. Now Max Blumenthal and many others are lifting the veil. Partly as a consequence, Europe can no longer be a dependable Israeli ally. And JVP boasts of big increases in their membership.

      • Bornajoo
        November 29, 2014, 8:14 am

        Exactly Nevada Ned. Your example is spot on. It’s almost a dichotomy to use the word “honest” and racist in the same sentence but in this context that’s exactly right. They are at least being honest about their real intentions. Those out there that have been so easily fooled or unaware appear to actually need to finally hear this from the horse’s mouth. There’s quite a few right wing MK’s starting to vomit all that vitriol out and they can’t seem to help themselves

        “There is a taboo on telling the truth about Palestine and the great destructive force behind Israel. Only when this truth is out can any of us be free.” (Edward Said)

        These newly empowered right right wing fascists are breaking that taboo from within and for all to see. They are accelerating the process towards truth and freedom. I honestly do believe that a more centrist coalition would just give us more and more of the same and no change will ever come.

      • Horizontal
        November 29, 2014, 9:44 am

        I had the same reaction to the non-choice of political candidates oft-times, where the republicans would be in-your-face conservatives, and in order to compete, the democrats, for some strange reason, would adopt more or less the same policies, but throw in a bit of moderation here or there to make it seem nicer.

        Got to the point where I felt it was better to have a genuine republican in office so everyone could at least then see how destructive their policies actually were.

        Regarding Israel, having real Zionists parading around their true selves is much better than all these Liberal Zionists continually trying to square the circle and keeping the mask in place. Of course, for the Palestinians, this means it’s going to get worse before it gets better.

    • seafoid
      November 29, 2014, 2:24 am

      Bornajoo

      It’s a process that has been going on for at least 30 years. Begin’s children.
      Started in 77 with the Likud win. Iterations since. Every year is worse than the last.
      Ignorance deepens and the education system is broken now . They now have the population to match the process. Virtually no dissentThe logic of YESHA is more important than anything else. I’ve started so I’ll finish.

      And throw a few memes to the goys and it’ll all be fine.
      What could possibly go wrong ?

      link to youtube.com

      Ohh, can’t anybody see
      We’ve got a war to fight
      Never found our way
      Regardless of what they say

      How can it feel, this wrong
      From this moment
      How can it feel, this wrong

      Storm.. in the morning light
      I feel
      No more can I say
      Frozen to myself

      I got nobody on my side
      And surely that’s anti-Semitic
      And surely that’s all Max Blumenthal’s fault

    • Marnie
      November 29, 2014, 5:05 am

      In other words, but certainly not better words than yours, they have to hit absolute rock bottom, then the only other way to go will be up.

    • bintbiba
      November 29, 2014, 9:02 am

      So very well said, Bornajoo …..as usual !

      • Mooser
        November 29, 2014, 11:47 am

        You know, if it wasn’t for the fact that Palestinians are, of course, the primary victims of Zionism, one could easily define Zionism as a series of frauds and cruel tricks one cohort or group of Jews have played on other Jews.

      • Bornajoo
        November 29, 2014, 1:13 pm

        @Mooser
        You know, if it wasn’t for the fact that Palestinians are, of course, the primary victims of Zionism, one could easily define Zionism as a series of frauds and cruel tricks one cohort or group of Jews have played on other ”

        I never thought of it in that way before!

      • just
        November 29, 2014, 11:51 am

        And more and more Jewish folks (and other folks) are waking up to that fact.

      • Mooser
        November 29, 2014, 12:58 pm

        “And more and more Jewish folks (and other folks) are waking up to that fact.”

        That “Jewish State” was the shibboleth which never failed, backed by the idea of “peoplehood”, elevating us from human dust to hereditary aristocracy. Two cheap charades, but they proved pretty reliable.

      • Mooser
        November 29, 2014, 7:02 pm

        “I never thought of it in that way before!”

        Perhaps you could tell me what it is, in the exploiting of the colonial opportunity in Palestine by the Zionists, which obligated or compelled the Zionist ‘leaders’ to deal honestly and in the best interest of the settlers (the colonists) they were employing as their raw material? Or treat them all the same?

  19. Mooser
    November 28, 2014, 7:33 pm

    Does it ever occur to the Israelis that the world may not thank them and hold them in high esteem if they do manage to destroy the Palestinians? They seem to think the world is going to thank them for it.

    • Horizontal
      November 28, 2014, 8:01 pm

      No, Mooser, it doesn’t.

      Since when did Israelis care what the world thinks of them? They’ll just chalk it up to A/S and go their merry way. In fact, world reaction would perversely confirm their own deepest fears.

      When the snake starts eating its tail, there’s no place for recognition.

    • just
      November 28, 2014, 8:09 pm

      I’ve wondered that my entire life, Mooser.

      Israel seems to be dedicated, since before its inception, of demonizing and blaming Palestinians for every crime committed against every Jewish human since the beginning of time. They’re still trying to do it by foolishly and deceitfully conflating Hamas with Isis and fashioning a ‘religious’ war in Jerusalem.

      Nothing could be further from the truth. It’s all about the violent Occupation and their illegal actions. Too many have swallowed their bs~ hook, line, and sinker.

      That’s a- changin’.

    • eljay
      November 28, 2014, 10:10 pm

      >> Mooser: Does it ever occur to the Israelis that the world may not thank them and hold them in high esteem if they do manage to destroy the Palestinians? They seem the world is going to thank them for it.

      Maybe Zio-supremacists are counting on the world consoling them if they manage to destroy the Palestinians and then shed lots of tears over what they’ve done.

      “There, there, you poor ‘Jewish State’. That must have been hard on you. Here, have another slice of Middle East.”

      • Mooser
        November 29, 2014, 11:50 am

        “Maybe Zio-supremacists are counting on the world consoling them if they manage to destroy the Palestinians and then shed lots of tears over what they’ve done”

        That’s when we will get the Palitemkin villages, and Israel’s fashion-conscious youth will go through a season of Palestinian-chic.

    • DaBakr
      November 29, 2014, 8:52 pm

      what makes you think we give a shit mooser? after all, we are nothing but a bunch a facist ‘zio-nazis’ so one can not expect very much from us. and we know the world believes ‘what goes around comes around ‘. we got tired of caring after making a gaxillion bucks on intell, texting , the pill-cam and a few other high tec goodies. just resting on our laurels, of course.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 29, 2014, 10:54 pm

        what makes you think we give a shit mooser?

        good question. to be honest the primary indication is your presence here. otherwise, why bother?

      • just
        November 29, 2014, 11:28 pm

        bravo, Annie!

        Many thanks for that.

      • Mooser
        November 30, 2014, 1:55 pm

        . “otherwise, why bother?”

        And they do bother, don’t they? And notice too, that they only bother with us, not each other. If our Zio-trolls ever talked to each other, they would be at each-other’s throats in a second.

      • talknic
        November 30, 2014, 7:38 pm

        @ DaBakr “what makes you think we give a shit mooser? “

        Pathological criminals don’t give a sh*t

        ” after all, we are nothing but a bunch a facist ‘zio-nazis’ so one can not expect very much from”

        Anyone who supports any state in breach of laws and a UN Charter adopted in large part because of the treatment of our fellow Jews under the Nazis is a […]-nazi.

      • DaBakr
        November 30, 2014, 9:14 pm

        @annie

        I only meant we don’t give a sht about the world “consoling” anybody let alone us. Of course I give a sht about how the conflict is resolved (despite my being a ‘criminal, Zionistic, fascistic supremacist with no concern for my fellow Arab neighbor citizens)

      • Annie Robbins
        December 1, 2014, 12:33 am

        I only meant we don’t give a sht about the world “consoling” anybody

        who is “we”? when the victim drum quits beating get back to me. until then maybe it’s best to just speak for yourself? there are way to many overseers and gatekeepers monitoring speech to believe your “we” doesn’t care (“give a shit”) how others perceived and address the zionist entity. after all, it’s practically an industry.

      • DaBakr
        November 30, 2014, 9:26 pm

        @taknc

        you and I see the birth of Israel in far different terms and I do NOT think Israel was created because of the Nazis but in spite of them. And btw-i never milk the holocaust for sympathy which is a very big mistake of some Jews, mostly in the liberal US bastions of NY Miami and LA. Its an historical fact-unique but not so unique that it can’t and hasn’t already happened again. But I take great offense at those who belive that the Israelis are perpetrating a so-called ‘holocaust’ upon Palestinians. A Nakba? yes. Not a genocide/holocaust. And if thats ‘denial’ so be it but I don’t think it is.

  20. American
    November 28, 2014, 9:31 pm

    I dont know why I find this so funny…..except its so typical…..US Zionist obsessing over their homeland being snubbed by the Queen and royal family.

    Royals Refuse to Visit Israel
    8:44 AM, Nov 28, 2014 • By DANIEL HALPER

    You won’t find the British royals in the holy land. Elliott Abrams calls it, “The bizarre story of the refusal of British royals to visit Israel, while they are constantly in the Arab world, continues.”

    “[T]he Queen has never set foot in Israel and Prince Charles set foot there briefly only once, for the Rabin funeral,” Abrams, a former deputy national security adviser in the George W. Bush administration, observes.

    “By contrast, in just the month of November 2014 we found Prince Andrew and Prince Harry at what the Foreign Office must have considered a diplomatic necessity: the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix. Prince Andrew also visited Saudi Arabia (at the request of the Foreign Office, it was announced).

    “And Prince Harry also visited Oman. Now with all due respect, Oman is a country of 3.6 million people with a GDP of $80 billion. Israel is a country of 8 million people with a GDP of about $300 billion. No point in laboring the comparison, but one might add that Prince Charles visited Oman in 2013 and the Queen herself visited there in 2010.”

    According to Abrams, there are 3 reasons to explain why the British royals refuse to visit Israel.

    “There are really only three logical explanations. The first is that the British royals only like to visit royals, and try to stay away from republics. But Prince Charles has visited Egypt time after time, so there goes that theory. The second possible explanation is fear–fear that any kind of royal visit to Israel would harm the UK, for example if Arab lands retaliated by cutting trade with Britain. This is silly. Prince Charles visited Jordan last year and could easily have helicoptered over for a day in Israel. Princes Andrew or Harry could have stopped by while in the Middle East as well. Given the current tacit alliance of Israel and the Gulf monarchies against Iran and ISIS, the likelihood that such visits would have harmed the UK is impossibly small. The third possible explanation for the continuing refusal of the British royals to set foot in Israel is that either they or the Foreign Office harbor deep and undying enmity toward the Jewish state.”

    • Annie Robbins
      November 28, 2014, 11:13 pm

      looks like abrams didn’t consider maybe the royals don’t want to empower an apartheid state.

    • John O
      November 29, 2014, 3:46 am

      Fourth possible explanation: Jewish terrorists killed a lot of British soldiers (who swear allegiance to the monarch) and some of them went on to lead Israeli governments. Margaret Thatcher never forgot that either.

    • talknic
      November 29, 2014, 10:05 am

      “The third possible explanation for the continuing refusal of the British royals to set foot in Israel is that either they or the Foreign Office harbor deep and undying enmity toward the Jewish state”

      Attacks by Zionist backed Jewish forces continued throughout the transition period for the partition of Palestine. They became the Zionist Movement‘s state forces IDF. Although the British occupation of Palestine ended there has never been a Ceasefire Agreement, Armistice Agreement or Peace Treaty between the British and Israel.

      Technically Israel and the British are at war.

      • Mooser
        November 29, 2014, 1:00 pm

        “Technically Israel and the British are at war.”

        Gosh, doesn’t that put England’s Zionist Jews in a lovely position?

      • talknic
        December 5, 2014, 9:44 am

        It doesn’t effect England’s Zionist Jews. They can remain in merry olde England enjoying the benefits of British citizenship.

        The UK however, is like every other state that has recognized Israel. They can either act humanely towards unfortunate Israeli innocents who have been duped by successive Israeli Governments and Zionist organizations and hope the Palestinians will be generous and forgo territory and rights in a negotiated settlement (which they obviously are link to pages.citebite.com ). The US UNSC veto vote only allows the frog to stay in the pot.
        OR
        They could act according to International Law & the UN Charter in accordance with their recognitions of Israel. link to wp.me

        The Zionist strategy is dependent on the former. The latter would result in a failed, bankrupt, Jewish state

        British recognition of Israel:

        “His Majesty’s Government have also decided to accord de jure recognition to the State of Israel, subject to explanations on two points corresponding to those described above in regard to the case of Jordan. These points are as follows. First, that His Majesty’s Government are unable to recognise the sovereignty of Israel over that part of Jerusalem which she occupies, though, pending a final determination of the status of the area, they recognise that Israel exercises de facto authority in it. Secondly, that His Majesty’s Government cannot regard the present boundaries between Israel, and Egypt, Jordan, Syria and the Lebanon as constituting the definitive frontiers of Israel, as these boundaries were laid down in the Armistice Agreements concluded severally between Israel and each of these States, and are subject to any modifications which may be agreed upon under the terms of those Agreements, or of any final settlements which may replace them.” link to hansard.millbanksystems.com

        Thus far there has been no final settlements for the British to acknowledge between Israel and Palestine, Lebanon and Syria.

        The two final settlements (Peace Treaties) between Israel and Jordan and Egypt saw no change in the borders between those states and only dealt with the borders of those states.

        Under International Law & the UN Charter and according to its International recognitions, Israel is required to withdraw from all non-Israeli territories and as the Occupying Power over non-Israeli territories for 66 years, with a “sacred trust” it has completely ignored link to pages.citebite.com , pay compensation now far beyond the Jewish state’s capabilities. AKA Boiled frog!

    • Ellen
      November 30, 2014, 1:52 am

      British ties to Middle Eastern states, pretend states or kingdoms (whatever we want to call them run very deep.) even the young Emir of Qatar asked for and got a private meeting with the Queen a few weeks ago. Bibi or Lieberman won’t get that

      These countries were British protectorates, their economies are very connected, even today. Britain is not sending aid to these countries, but is, indirectly, to Israel.

      Considering how many Brits are working in these countries and how much is invested in Britain, one could make the argument that Britain is dependent on aid from some ME countries.

      And as talkinc points out, Israeli Zionist forces carried out murderous attacks on the British . Israel has never made amends, let alone acknowledged this.

      The failure to establish a Palestinian state while they could, might be one of the most grievous blunders of the overall mess the British made of the Middle East .

      Give one reason why the British would grace Israel with their royal symbols of state, Empire and recognition?

  21. Qualtrough
    November 28, 2014, 10:42 pm

    Why not resettle them in Madagascar? I believe some work along those lines was done in the 1930s. Dust that plan off and translate into Hebrew being sure to replace any instances of ‘Jew’ with ‘Arab’. No need to re-invent the wheel.

  22. JLewisDickerson
    November 29, 2014, 2:06 am

    RE: “Rebecca Vilkomerson said in October that there are fascist trends in Israeli society; Max Blumenthal reported this in his book a year ago; the late Fouzi Al-Asmar reported these Israeli tendencies to the west nearly 40 years ago.” ~ Weiss

    MY COMMENT: Chomsky has long been warning everone about these trends.*

    * ■ Fateful Triangle: The United States, Israel, and the Palestinians, By Noam Chomsky, 1983
    Foreword…………………………………… 12
    Preface to the Updated Edition……………….. 15
    1. Fanning the Flames……………………….. 36
    2. The Origins of the “Special Relationship”…… 47
    3. Rejectionism and Accommodation ……………. 95
    4. Israel and Palestine: Historical Backgrounds.. 174
    5. Peace for Galilee……………………….. 323
    6. Aftermath………………………………. 563
    7. The Road to Armageddon…………………… 792
    9. “Limited War” in Lebanon ………………… 855
    10. Washington’s “Peace Process” ……………. 884
    LINK TO PDF – link to vho.org

    P.S. BOOK REVIEW – link to ihr.org

  23. Boomer
    November 29, 2014, 6:38 am

    I see that the Atlantic has picked up this story. Reading that brief piece, I wondered if we should apply a similar solution to the “problem of divided loyalties” here.

    link to theatlantic.com

    • Horizontal
      November 29, 2014, 10:11 am

      Yeah, but where would they go? I don’t think the Palestinians would appreciate us sending our troubled souls over there; they’ve got enough to worry about already.

  24. justicewillprevail
    November 29, 2014, 8:09 am

    Why doesn’t the US, instead of pouring billions into fomenting trouble, offer Israeli Jews an inducement to leave Israel and settle elsewhere? A generous offer.

    If you are outraged by such a proposal, or reach for the usual apoplectic phrases of ‘pogroms’, anti-semitism, historical home blah blah, then tell us why the ‘horror’ of such a proposal is any different for Palestinians? Arguably it is far worse, since they and their families are genuine historic residents there, which is not true of 90% of Jewish Israelis, who still have passports for their ‘other’ countries.

  25. Kay24
    November 29, 2014, 8:15 am

    Lieberman’s words are a reflection of what most of the zionists think and want. They would dearly love it if the Palestinians cleared out of those areas, so that they can build more illegal settlements, for their illegal squatters.

    Perhaps the Palestinians should counter offer, asking the illegals to leave so that they can have all their lands back. The zionists are spreading like a poisonous fungus.

  26. MSeveral
    November 29, 2014, 10:13 am

    I think it is a fabulous idea if it goes further. The payments should not be to Arabs, or Palestinians, but to all of Israel’s citizens. Pay them to leave the promised land, which probably a lot of Jews will do and move to the United States, Canada, western Europe, and particularly Berlin, the capitol of the Reich.

    • jon s
      November 30, 2014, 4:56 am

      Yeah, I wonder whether more Jews or more Palestinians would take the money and leave.

  27. piotr
    November 29, 2014, 11:31 am

    I recall Lieberman peddling this idea a while ago, which basically shows him as a maturing responsible politician, compared to his earlier ideas like bombing Asuan Dam or supplying buses to drawn Palestinians in the Dead Sea.

    But really, he is spouting the same stuff for years.

  28. Boomer
    November 29, 2014, 1:45 pm

    This simply grows from and implements the idea that Israel should be “the national homeland of the Jewish people,” as the Prime Minister puts it. Haven’t most members of Congress effectively endorsed that idea in one or more of the many AIPAC-inspired resolutions they love to pass or in other places, such as campaign literature?

  29. Kay24
    November 30, 2014, 8:11 am

    President Abbas seems to blame the US for blocking Palestinian statehood.
    No surprise. Finally the ugly picture comes out. We have been blocking the Palestinians
    from getting their rights, and we should be ashamed.

    “Abbas accuses U.S. of blocking creation of Palestinian state
    PA president ‘regrets’ U.S. lawmakers’ recommendaton to cut aid; also says Egyptian help will be essential for security in future Palestinian state

    Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas on Saturday accused the United States of preventing the establishment of a Palestinian state, urging the Obama administration in an interview aired on Egyptian television to support the Palestinian bid at the United Nations Security Council – or at the very least, to refrain from vetoing it.” Haaretz

    • just
      November 30, 2014, 9:30 am

      I’ve been ashamed for a long, long time. The “Peace Process” has been an industry for some and only the Palestinian people pay any real price. It should be exposed to all for the sham/cruel farce that it is.

      A worthwhile read in its entirety, Ramzy Baroud take it away:

      “Palestinians are currently paying the price of earlier Israeli visions, where Vladimir Jabotinsky’s ‘Iron Wall’ of 1923 was coupled with the Allon plan, named after Yigal Allon, a former general and minister in the Israeli government, who took on the task of drawing an Israeli design for the newly conquered Palestinian territories in 67. Not only would it not make any sense for a Zionist leader like Netanyahu – backed by one of the most rightwing governments in Israeli history – to bargain with Palestinians on what he considers to be Eretz Yisrael – the Whole Land of Israel -he has shown no desire, not even the most miniscule, to reach an agreement that would provide Palestinians with any of their rightful demands, true sovereignty notwithstanding.

      It is implausible that the Americans were unaware of Israel’s lack of interest in the whole undertaking. For one, Israeli extremists like Naftali Bennett – Israel’s minister of economy and the head of the rightwing political party the Jewish Home – are constantly reminding the US through unconstrained insults that Israel is simply not interested in peacemaking efforts. The Americans persist, however, for reasons that are hardly related to peace or justice.

      Most commentary dealing with the latest US push for a negotiated agreement would go as far back as Bush’s Roadmap of 2002, the Arab peace initiative earlier the same year, or even the Oslo accords of 1993. What is often ignored is the fact that the ‘peace process’ is a political invention by a hardliner, US politician Henry Kissinger, who served as a National Security Advisor and later Secretary of State in the Nixon Administration. The idea was to co-opt the Arabs following the Israeli military victory of 1967, the sudden expansion of Israel’s borders into various Arab borders, with full US support and reinforcement. It was Kissinger himself who lobbied for massive US arms to Israel that changed the course of the 1973 war, and he was the man who worked to secure Israeli gains through diplomacy.

      While many are quick to conclude that the ‘peace process’ has been a historical failure, the bleak estimation discounts that the intent behind the ‘peace process’ was never to secure a lasting peace, but Israeli military gains. In that sense, it has been a splendid success. Over the years, however, the ‘peace process’ became an American investment in the Middle East, a status quo in itself, and a reason for political relevance. During the administration of both Bushes, father and son, the ‘peace process’ went hand in hand with the Iraq war. The Madrid Peace Talks in 1991 were initiated following the US-led war in Kuwait and Iraq, and was meant to balance out the extreme militancy that had gripped and destabilized the region. George W. Bush’s Roadmap fell between the war on Afghanistan and months before the war on Iraq. Bush was heavily criticized for being a ‘war president’ and for having no peace vision. The Roadmap, which was drafted with the help of pro-Israel neoconservative elements in his administration, in consultation with the lobby and heavy amendments by the Israeli government, was W Bush’s ‘peace’ overture. Naturally, the Roadmap failed, but until this day, Bush’s insincere drive for peace had helped maintain the peace process charade for a few more years, until Bill Clinton arrived to the scene, and kick started the make-believe process once more.

      In the last four decades, the ‘peace process’ became an American diplomatic staple in the region. It is an investment that goes hand in hand with their support of Israel and interest in energy supplies. It is an end in itself, and is infused regularly for reasons other than genuine peace.”

      link to counterpunch.org

      • Kay24
        November 30, 2014, 10:24 am

        The US has failed the Palestinian people by it’s unbelievable support of a brutal occupier, and pretends it is trying to talk peace with it. It is utter bull, and the world knows it is a sham, nothing else. Israel does not have the slightest interest in getting peace, it prefers the status quo, and there is that master plan, to colonize and rid the territories of Arabs who lived there and was progressing very well, until the UN aided and abetted by the US and the UK, decided to dump unwanted (by them especially) and the rest of the world, on helpless stateless people.
        Ideally at least the Palestinians should have been given their own state and independence, but perhaps this way it was easier for the interloper to keep driving them away by killing, intimidating, terrorizing them, and taking over their lands and resources. So the US and UK pretends to offer carrots and no sticks to the beast, wink, wink, nod, nod, and allows them to keep their violence against unarmed civilians going, at the slightest excuse, without consequences. We should all be ashamed of being complicit in this crime, especially those disgusting congress members, who pretend to be ignorant of these crimes, and keep stroking that beast, kissing up to it’s big behind.

        I understand fully well now, why we are hated around the world. We try to preach morality to other nations, but are hypocrites, because we are no better in many ways.

  30. German Lefty
    November 30, 2014, 12:49 pm

    OT – I just read this article on the SPIEGEL website: link to spiegel.de
    Tuvia Tenenbom in Israel: Jewish self-hatred, German self-righteousness
    Israeli-American Zionist Tuvia Tenenbom just wrote a new book titled “Catch The Jew”. He travelled through Israel/Palestine to interview different people about the conflict. He played different roles in order to get honest answers from the people. When interviewing Palestinians, Tenenbom pretended to be a German. (How dare he!) He refers to Jewish anti-Zionists as self-hating Jews and to pro-Palestinian Germans as anti-Semitic.

  31. just
    December 1, 2014, 4:57 am

    A “funny”:

    link to haaretz.com

Leave a Reply