Tell your congressperson: Don’t attend Netanyahu’s speech

US Politics
on 133 Comments

A lot of the commentary on the shocking/outrageous/inappropriate/unprecedented/ dangerous invitation from the Republican leadership to Benjamin Netanyahu to address a joint session of Congress about our Iran policy, thereby undermining Obama’s negotiations, has said that Netanyahu shouldn’t have accepted the invitation or the Republicans shouldn’t have invited him. A couple of liberal Jewish organizations, for instance, are pleading with Congress to delay the speech.

But they did invite him. And he did accept the invitation, for March.

The Republicans and neocons and Netanyahu have all taken action. But our side is being passive.

Here is the real challenge to all those who don’t want another war in the Middle East: Tell your congressperson not to undermine our president’s efforts to strike a deal with Iran. Tell your congressperson not to attend the speech. That’s right. Tell your congressperson to give Benjamin Netanyahu the cold shoulder, lest he lead our country to war, or undermine the American president on his efforts to strike a deal with Iran.

That is the moral challenge here. Do you think it’s shocking and inappropriate and outrageous that the Israeli premier is coming here to speak in defiance of the White House? You think this is a plot hatched by neoconservatives behind the president’s back in the last two weeks? You think that politics is supposed to stop at the water’s edge when a possible war hangs in the balance? Fine. Vote with your feet. Don’t go to the House chambers for this historic atrocity.

President Obama and John Kerry are refusing to meet with Netanyahu when he comes to Washington. Why should you?

My congressperson is Sean Patrick Maloney. He’s a good guy. I passed him jogging on Rte 301 the other day with his husband, saw him at a party on Wappingers Creek at Christmas. Sean, don’t go. Don’t dignify this assault on diplomacy by showing up and listening to the rightwing premier of a foreign ethnocracy who just massacred 500 children under occupation and who brings cartoons to the United Nations.

The most important issues a politician faces are about war and peace. This one is easy. Stand up for peace, and don’t be in the audience for Netanyahu.

 

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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133 Responses

  1. just
    January 25, 2015, 9:29 am

    Already done~ twice so far. I won’t let up, either.

    It really is up to us to make our p.o.v. heard. It’s a golden and rare opportunity to carpe diem and tell our Congress that our President decides and carries out foreign policy, not the PM of Israel nor AIPAC.

    Thanks, Phil.

    • bilal a
      January 25, 2015, 2:01 pm

      Tell your kids, don’t attend CalTech-Technion:

      stunning nest of dual citizens in Israeli spy ring coverup at CalTech

      http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/sp-caltech.html

      • Annie Robbins
        January 25, 2015, 3:43 pm

        bilal, phil wrote about this in novemebr http://mondoweiss.net/2014/11/caltech-scientist-government

      • bilal a
        January 26, 2015, 5:52 am

        What is happening with Conrell-Technion?

        Espionage Allegations Intensify Battle for Israel’s Technion Nuke File
        Is the Justice Department Obstructing Justice?
        by Grant Smith, November 21, 2014

        the court filing is amazing

    • JLewisDickerson
      January 25, 2015, 7:26 pm

      RE: “Tell your congressperson not to undermine our president’s efforts to strike a deal with Iran. Tell your congressperson not to attend the speech. That’s right. Tell your congressperson to give Benjamin Netanyahu the cold shoulder, lest he lead our country to war, or undermine the American president on his efforts to strike a deal with Iran.” ~ Weiss

      FROM: Kevin Martin, Peace Action – http://peace-action.org/
      Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 3:43 PM
      To: dickerson
      Subject: Tell your Senators – Support diplomacy with Iran

      The U.S. and its international allies are within reach of a peaceful resolution to the issue of Iran’s nuclear program. Negotiations about Iran’s nuclear program look very promising, with a framework agreement likely by March and a final deal possible by a June deadline. You may have seen promising media reports in the last day or two about negotiations in Geneva between Secretary of State John Kerry and Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammed Javad Zarif, which is very good news.

      However, conservative senators and even some supposed liberals are dead set on imposing new economic sanctions on Iran, which will risk scuttling the talks and putting us on a reckless path toward yet another Middle East war.

      Contact your senators today and tell them diplomacy is the only answer, not more sanctions and threats of war. – http://org.salsalabs.com/o/161/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=16988

  2. amigo
    January 25, 2015, 10:06 am

    Beware the Ides of March Mr Nietanyahu.

    The American people , who keep your tin pot border less nation in business in spite of your insults and self serving actions are wearying of you.

    Beware the sleeping bear because once they go against you , there will be no turning back.Proceed at your peril.

    • bilal a
      January 26, 2015, 9:17 am

      I dont see any grass roots opp to Netanyahu especially post charlie

      eg I was told inNYC that they only carry ‘Sabra’ and ‘Tribe’ brands of Hummus because anything else they buy rots on the shelf. Pig’s head brand is also not an attractive brand name for some.

      http://justicewithpeace.org/node/2484

      Imagine if the only choice of potato sald was between ‘White Pilgrim’ and ‘Aryan’ brands, because consumers wouldnt buy anything else.

      it would say something about the consciousness , mentality, of the consumers.

      • Jethro
        January 26, 2015, 11:35 am

        That’s not true about hummus in New York. There’s also Boar’s Head, Cedar’s, Fresh Direct and Whole Foods (the last two make their own). Tribe and Sabra seems to be the market leaders because they were the first out with mass production, but IMO they are not the tastiest by far (not enough tahini). In order of best to worst:

        1. Boar’s Head (surprisingly)
        2. Fresh Direct (another surprise)
        3. Cedar’s
        4. Whole Foods
        5. Sabra
        6. Tribe

        And guess what? Jews and Muslims are not the only people who eat hummus in the US. As we know, they make up under 4% of the population, so Boar’s Head could have a go at this market, not withstanding their name.

      • just
        January 27, 2015, 5:36 am

        Here’s an idea~ make your own hummus! Same with baba ghanoush.

        (it’s easy, delicious and “settlement”/Occupation free!)

      • Taxi
        January 27, 2015, 6:06 am

        Lebanon vs. Israel: A Delicious Culinary War:
        http://www.momentmag.com/lebanon-vs-israel-a-delicious-culinary-war/

        Make Humus Not War:
        http://www.makehummusnotwar.com/

        The Humus Wars:
        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/10/sabra-hummus_n_3391688.html

        How to Make Lebanese humus:

      • Walid
        January 27, 2015, 6:59 am

        “I was told inNYC that they only carry ‘Sabra’ and ‘Tribe’ brands of Hummus because anything else they buy rots on the shelf.” (Bilal)

        The guy that told you that is most probably a rabid Zionist. Go down to Atlantic Ave between Court and Clinton Streets in Brooklyn and you’ll find good Lebanese and Syrian stores on both sides of the street selling the real stuff even stores of Syrian Arab Jews and they too have the good stuff. The most famous and probably the oldest there is Sahadi’s. The original store opened in Manhattan in 1898, long before Zionists were thinking about Israel or knew anything at all about hummus, and moved to its current location in Brooklyn in 1948.

      • Walid
        January 27, 2015, 7:29 am

        Hummus is just one of the culture thefts practiced by Israelis. There’s also falafel, Arabic bread, tabouleh, zaatar and surprisingly, they still haven’t discovered shawarma and kibbee.

        Taxi, on a more serious (or not at all serious) note that involves Israeli dirty tricks, which you surely heard about, there was the mini crisis in Lebanon last week concerning Miss Lebanon in Florida for the Miss Universe contest. she was being hounded by Miss Israel to have her photo taken with her. When she asked her what country she was from, the pest answered she was from Israel at which point, Miss Lebanon told her that she refuses to be photographed with her because it was against Lebanese law. But the persistent Miss Israel intent on getting a photo of Miss Lebanon with her, probably as directed by her Israeli handlers to make trouble, waited for the opportunity when Miss Lebanon was getting her photo taken with 4 other contestants, Miss Israel jumped in front of them and took a selfie without anyone realizing what had happened and she immediately posted it on her FB.

        The FB stunt raised a big stink in Lebanon with some people asking that the title be stripped from Miss Lebanon and others asking to have her punished. After a long investigation, it was concluded that Miss Lebanon was innocent and that the whole episode had been set up by the Israelis and the case was closed.

      • Jethro
        January 27, 2015, 7:39 am

        Walid, you’re right about Sahadi’s and all the shops along Atlantic Avenue. They are the best. My list is of the best and worst mass-produced hummus available in New York.

    • bilal a
      January 26, 2015, 9:44 am

      although the treason meme is re-emerging:

      MJ Rosenberg ‏@MJayRosenberg

      Israel’s man in the White House. Not since Alger Hiss… http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2015/01/25/former-adviser-warns-obama-on-iran/?hpid=z6

      https://twitter.com/MJayRosenberg/status/559718804331429888

      • Pixel
        January 27, 2015, 5:22 pm

        @bilal a

        Can the truth be a meme?

  3. David Doppler
    January 25, 2015, 11:35 am

    Perhaps there needs to a counter-demonstration, a peace parade, that directly challenges the Netanyahu-Likud-Neocon narrative. “No More Likud-Neocon Wars.” “Down with LIkud and Netanyahu. Done with Neocons.” “Blowback Bibi.” “Likud Civilization Clashes with American Values”

    • David Doppler
      January 25, 2015, 1:37 pm

      A Peace in Palestine Parade, concurrently scheduled, to which we invite our Congresspersons and Senators, give them a choice as to which event to attend. Roll will be taken. Maybe invite the President to speak? Maybe invite all our former presidents, as well. All our former Secretaries of States, as well. All the former Secretaries of Defense. Retired Generals and Admirals. Maybe all of those Shin Bet Gatekeepers. Various Veterans organizations. Maybe European leaders, current and former as well. Maybe a row of honor, for those realists, like Chas Freeman, who got blackballed by AIPAC. Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame.

      Netanyahu wants to play Israeli election politics in DC, let’s play tit for tat.

      • a blah chick
        January 25, 2015, 2:35 pm

        I suspect a few people will turn out for that one.

  4. Kay24
    January 25, 2015, 12:06 pm

    Nutty seems very unwelcome this time, but his arrogance, and disrespect for the President, and the White House, seems to make him ignore this, and just like in Paris, will bulldoze his way into our Congress. No one except Dermer, the Congress and Nutty seem to think this is a great idea.

    The zionists have no self respect nor decency – they go where they are not wanted, steal what is not theirs, and provoke other nations into sending their kids to war, to fight their enemies.

  5. just
    January 25, 2015, 4:00 pm

    “Pre-Election Posturing Behind Netanyahu’s DC Visit”

    Max interviewed by The Real News 1/23/15

    (apologies if it has been posted before)

    • Krauss
      January 25, 2015, 4:49 pm

      Not at all, thanks a lot! Good interview from Max, as always.

    • David Doppler
      January 27, 2015, 12:54 am

      Great interview, Max! And thanks for posting it, just.

      I would add one thing to Max’s terrific analysis of Netanyahu’s motives, in appearing uninvited in front of Western World Leaders marching in front of the Je suis Charlie demonstration, and later in front of Congress haranguing them about the danger from Iran: the INTENDED impact these images must have when viewed by the Islamic and Arab worlds. Likud-Neocon INTENT is to stimulate unity among the otherwise highly diverse and factionalized worlds which the Likud-Neocon-clash-of-civilizations outlook REQUIRES as the external and internal threat that justifies their right-wing authoritarian, racist, ethnocratic, religiously divided, fascistic worldview. Netanyahu, Likud, and the Neocons are in fact implacable enemies of the Islamic World, who they view as Israel’s implacable foes. Netanyahu is selling his leadership of the Israel AND THE WEST, not only to his electorate, but to his enemies as well. If he gets away with the same kind of standing ovations he got before, and wins his election, this will send a message of greatly heightened danger to the Islamic world, and will further tie the US to his naked hatred and hostile intent toward them. He will succeed in escalating both the Israeli/West’s attack on Islam, and the ineluctable blowback against us all. Why Obama and the realists continue to try to mollify and condone and avoid imposing real consequences on this aggressive behavior is beyond me. Netanyahu is a very scary leader playing with the controls of US power.

      If I’m wrong that this is his intent, I believe I’m still right in understanding the impact and the grave consequences, and he’s just stupid in believing little Israel can conquer and dominate the entire Arab/Israeli world. Evil intent, or deep stupidity, it’s at risk of becoming historical in its impact, in either case.

      To me, it’s a tinpot territorial dispute over a few thousand square miles of ancient dirt, hardly justifying World War III, the generational clash of civilizations.

    • Pixel
      January 27, 2015, 5:35 pm

      @ Just

      Many thanks for this!

      It’s great to hear Max so clearly, articulately, and openly connect all the dots.

      Everything IS connected.

  6. Philip Munger
    January 25, 2015, 4:01 pm

    Here’s the letter I am sending to Sen. Murkowski, Sen. Dan Sullivan, and Rep. Don Young:

    Dear Sen. Murkowski,

    U.S. House Speaker, John Boehner, has invited Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to address a joint session of the U.S. Congress in March. This would only be the second time in our history that a sitting foreign leader has been bestowed such an honor three times. The other person to be so honored was British Prime Minister, Winston Churchill.

    Mr. Churchill’s appearances were pre-cleared by the executive branch of the U.S. Government, as have been all such appearances before a Joint Session by foreign leaders. However, Speaker Boehner has broken with precedent, and has possibly violated the Logan Act, by extending this current invitation in a unilateral manner.

    In the 1980s. as part of his involvement with the illegal front company, MILCO, Benjamin Netanyahu directly participated in efforts to illegally obtain and transport high tech kryton switches and other nuclear-related materials from the United States to a foreign government. The resulting nuclear weapons were then offered for sale to the apartheid government of the Union of South Africa. These acts were prejudicial to the interests of the people of the United States of America and to your constituents. They also violated several U.S. laws, and were serious felonies.

    I urge you to call for an investigation of Mr. Netanyahu’s involvement in espionage against the American people. Short of that, I urge you to not attend his address.

    Sincerely,

    Philip Munger

    • just
      January 25, 2015, 4:03 pm

      Well done, Philip! Thank you for sharing it.

      (Max also talks about the Logan Act in the posted video…)

      • Philip Munger
        January 25, 2015, 4:30 pm

        I emailed a copy to Sen. Murkowski already. Sen. Sullivan’s contact page hasn’t been set up yet, and Rep. Young makes it almost impossible to email his office. So I’m printing out, folding, sealing, stamping and mailing hard copies to all three. Tempted to send them certified, as I am informing them of a set of serious crimes that may not have already been aware of.

      • just
        January 25, 2015, 4:46 pm

        Not a bad idea at all.

        (Happy New Year to you and yours. Hope that the AK winter is treating you well.)

  7. yonah fredman
    January 25, 2015, 4:09 pm

    “Don’t go to the House chambers for this historic atrocity. ” This cheapening of the language cheapened your appeal.

    • just
      January 25, 2015, 4:19 pm

      ‘Interesting’ opinion as usual, yonah. I guess you’ll still go, then.

      LOL.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 25, 2015, 6:22 pm

        omg just, this video is perfect! can’t stop laughing.

      • just
        January 25, 2015, 6:37 pm

        I couldn’t help it~ every single time I hear/read somebody not dealing with the odious Netanyahu/Boehner bungling boogaloo, but engaging in whataboutery, it’s popped into my head! It’s also obvious to me that they do support the PM.

        I needed to get it off my chest (and out of my head), so to speak. I am glad that I made you laugh!

      • Annie Robbins
        January 25, 2015, 6:53 pm

        of course they support him. i mean, even if they overtly don’t prefer netanyahu they support the relationship with congress and have invested so much in it they will downplay anything that puts that at risk. yesterday ivri tried to pass this off as “usual political theatre” -or claimed that’s what obama thought. plllllease

        ok, let’s place bets. how many standing ovations will he get? will they top the 29 from last time? do they dare?

      • Mooser
        January 26, 2015, 11:58 am

        Just across town from Mondoweiss Plaza at Talking Points Memo only the owner himself is prepared to comment on the Netanyahoo visit.

    • Annie Robbins
      January 25, 2015, 4:20 pm

      cheapening of the language cheapened your appeal.

      that’s funny coming from someone who hangs out here to “cheapen the appeal.”

      that’s the purpose of all your comments directed at phil. so coming from you wouldn’t it thereby make the comment more appealing to his supporters, not less. the only people who are going to agree with you are those like yourself, who have no interest in finding anything appealing about phil’s ideas or writing, or any of the other writing on this site for that matter.

      • yonah fredman
        January 25, 2015, 4:43 pm

        True to form. If you have no answer, go straight to ad hominem.

        You really think the word atrocity does not make Phil look bad, like a street corner nut agit prop idiot rather than an intelligent Harvard journalist? Ask a real journalist what they think of Phil’s use of that word. This isn’t singing to the choir it’s screaming to the choir.

        And you and your echo chamber attitude towards MW. You don’t care about dialogue or nothing like it. Sharpen your agit prop skills, that’s your state of mind.

      • just
        January 25, 2015, 4:52 pm

        “ad hominem” where? it’s ‘agitprop’, not ‘agit prop’

        “You don’t care about dialogue or nothing like it.”

        You are clearly not a journalist, nor a whiz at the proper use of the English language.

        (Paging RoHa… and pardon any mistakes that I may have made.)

      • Annie Robbins
        January 25, 2015, 6:01 pm

        your 4000 plus comments is a testament to your critiques, they are routinely un-complementary towards the opinions here, that’s not surprise to you is it? you are a critic here, a zionist at a non zionists site, that’s your role here – a mouthpiece for the opposition. what you advocate, according to comments and your profile, makes your position clear. this is not an insult, it is an accurate description.

        under those circumstances (and feel free to point out a handful of complementary posts directed at the site that contradict my assessment if you think i am wrong) “wouldn’t it thereby make the comment more appealing to his supporters, not less.” ? it’s a fair question.

        and i think it is atrocious yes. and obviously it is historic. it’s just not done. that’s not “cheap” it’s the way he sees it and the way many see it whether you agree or not. calling someones assessment “cheap” is an insult, it’s not a challenge. it’s meant to incite and degrade.

        “have no interest in finding anything appealing about phil’s ideas or writing”

        i really can’t recall a time when you complimented phil’s ideas unless perhaps once you tried to couch an insult.

        clarity is precisely what Phil obscures here with his Zionism obsession. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/wondering-jew?keyword=phil#sthash.1Ka2DRHX.dpuf

        ====

        Last week Phil told us that he is an American and a former Jew. (I know i will take hits for my inexactitude.) This week he dons the mantle of Jew once more. Why? In order to utter the only phrase of Yiddish that he apparently knows: Mea culpa. And by mea, he doesn’t mean him. He means the other meshugene Jews who refuse to assimilate like him.

        =====

        Last week Phil flushed “Jew” down the drain– why shed any tears over one more disappearing language? But this week Phil has salvaged “Jew” from the ash heap of his story, so that he can attack Zionism from the inside, as one of the tribe.

        Spare us, white American Phil Weiss

        – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/wondering-jew?keyword=phil#sthash.1Ka2DRHX.dpuf

        ====

        let me put it in inciteful terms. phil has to wait until omar barghouti tells him what to write. has to get it lined up with the party line first. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/wondering-jew?keyword=phil#sthash.1Ka2DRHX.dpuf

        ====

        It’s the front story around the world, but Phil gives it a pass. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/wondering-jew?keyword=phil#sthash.1Ka2DRHX.dpuf

        =====

        The headline is quite positive that the 2016 elections will threaten Israel’s isolation, but in the text of the article, Phil treats the thought with mockery – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/wondering-jew?keyword=phil#sthash.1Ka2DRHX.dpuf

        =====

        When did Phil Weiss stop being a journalist and sign up as full fledged out to lunch propagandist? – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/wondering-jew?keyword=phil#sthash.1Ka2DRHX.dpuf

        and today he reads like “a street corner nut agit prop idiot“! you’re outdoing even yourself!

        after years of your ad hominems it’s me that’s “true to form” — to point this out? surely you jest. earth to yonah, i didn’t have to search high and low for those insults of yours, i merely placed “phil” in a search of your comments and took them in order one by one from the ones at the top of the page. there are 359 to choose from, maybe you should go digging and find a compliment: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/wondering-jew?keyword=phil ~ happy hunting!

        so, i repeat my question, coming from you wouldn’t it thereby make the comment more appealing to his supporters, not less? who’s the miserly pinchbeck yonah? another fair question. your insults just get worse and worse. and then you whine when it’s thrown back at you. and you lecture us on what’s appealing? we might as well take lessons on appeal from ebenezer scrooge!

      • Mooser
        January 25, 2015, 6:24 pm

        “Ask a real journalist what they think of Phil’s use of that word.”

        Any journalist in the entire world is free to comment here.
        Say Yonah, why don’t you put it on Twitter: “Phil Weiss says “atrocity”!”
        It’ll go viral, and Mondo’s credibility will be destroyed! You’re this closer to victory, Yonah!

      • Annie Robbins
        January 25, 2015, 6:31 pm

        why don’t you put it on Twitter: “Phil Weiss says “atrocity”!”

        but mooser, it was “historic atrocity” !!!! ahhhh !!!!

      • Mooser
        January 25, 2015, 6:30 pm

        “meshugene Jews”

        Man, Yonah, you can malaprop like nobody’s business, once you’re on a roll! “mushegene Jews!” Perfect! “Mushegene” Jews, of course, are Jews who’s genes are all mixed up, or meshuga. And I thought I had a knack for the mot jewste!

      • Annie Robbins
        January 25, 2015, 6:36 pm

        Jews who’s genes are all mixed up

        LOL! omg ~ you’re hysterical! that’s not what it means!!!

        meshuggah ;) lol

      • tree
        January 25, 2015, 6:48 pm

        …we might as well take lessons on appeal from ebenezer scrooge!

        LOL. You win the Best Analogy of the Day Award, annie!

      • Annie Robbins
        January 25, 2015, 6:59 pm

        oh thank you tree, coming from you that is quite a compliment. ;)

      • just
        January 25, 2015, 6:49 pm

        omg.

        ““mushegene Jews!” Perfect! “Mushegene” Jews, of course, are Jews who’s genes are all mixed up, or meshuga. And I thought I had a knack for the mot jewste!”

        that’s it~ my belly is aching from laughing! rotflmao!

        (‘mot jewste’~~~ too funny and clever!!)

      • Mooser
        January 25, 2015, 7:11 pm

        Hey, I like that “MESHUGA” thrash, what is it the kids…oh shredding, yes they shred. But I’ll need to swallow a couple of Dilantin to watch the whole thing. Thirty seconds in, my synapses started firing like a Gatling-gun.

      • yonah fredman
        January 25, 2015, 7:25 pm

        annie robbins- What’s a miserly pinchbeck?

        btw- i believe that there is a real journalist on staff- James North. Let him comment on the word atrocity. He won’t. He knows it’s over the top.

        in fact usage of the word “atrocious” and “atrocity” is quite different. If a teacher would say, your handwriting is atrocious, this is acceptable. if a teacher says, your handwriting is an atrocity, he is using rhetoric.

      • RoHa
        January 25, 2015, 7:51 pm

        @just.

        Ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis in nomine de Carolus Lamb, et de P. G. Wodehouse, et Universitatis Oxfordiensis.

        But just this once!

      • RoHa
        January 25, 2015, 7:56 pm

        “What’s a miserly pinchbeck?”

        http://www.oxforddictionaries.com

      • tree
        January 25, 2015, 8:06 pm

        i believe that there is a real journalist on staff- James North. Let him comment on the word atrocity. He won’t. He knows it’s over the top.

        Well, there’s a great little piece of nut-job agitprop right there. Backward insult at Phil by mentioning the “real Journalist” North. Then insist, with those mad mind reading skills of yours, that North “knows it’s over the top”. (Thanks for admitting, without admitting openly, that you used the word “cheap” when you really meant “over the top”, yonah .) You know North’s mind now, but of course you also know that North will never “admit” that he agrees with you, thus you get to make a bogus claim that can never be disproved. Bravo on the cheap shots, yonah! True to form, as always.

        in fact usage of the word “atrocious” and “atrocity” is quite different.

        No …. its not, except that atrocious is the adjective and atrocity is a noun. Otherwise, atrocity is defined as “the state or quality of being atrocious.”

        If a teacher would say, your handwriting is atrocious, this is acceptable. if a teacher says, your handwriting is an atrocity, he is using rhetoric.

        Your statement is itself a piece of rhetoric, by which I mean:

        language that is intended to influence people and that may not be honest or reasonable

        It is certainly NOT rhetoric in the other meaning of the word, i.e.:

        the art or skill of speaking or writing formally and effectively especially as a way to persuade or influence people

        So far you’ve shown you aren’t up to the task you have assigned yourself. Why not comment on the gist of the piece rather than trying to isolate words to criticize when you clearly don’t understand their proper usage?

      • Annie Robbins
        January 25, 2015, 8:24 pm

        except that atrocious is the adjective and atrocity is a noun.

        wow, she’s a beauty

        yonah: no she’s not, don’t be cheap! she’s beautiful, they are really quite different!

        edit: hmm, maybe i should reverse those in case yonah doesn’t know the difference between a noun and an adjective.

        wow, she’s beautiful

        yonah: no she’s not, don’t be cheap! she’s a beauty, they are really quite different!

      • Annie Robbins
        January 26, 2015, 1:33 am

        Well, there’s a great little piece of nut-job agitprop right there. Backward insult at Phil by mentioning the “real Journalist” North

        tree, that is what i meant upthread when i said i couldn’t recall a time when yonah complimented phil “unless perhaps once you tried to couch an insult.” not sure if “couch” is the right word, perhaps cushion is better. it’s a set up.

        mooser, i found that video googling meshuga (crazy) but it seemed to fit the context. crazy assimilated jews! ;) ahhhh lol

      • just
        January 25, 2015, 8:56 pm

        Thank you from the bottom of my English major heart.

        Lorem Angli maiore ex intimo cordis. (My Latin is surely lacking..)

        In other words, tak. You are kind. ;-)

      • Mooser
        January 26, 2015, 12:10 pm

        “yonah: no she’s not, don’t be cheap! she’s a beauty, they are really quite different!”

        Say, Annie, do you need any comic drawings to go with that dialogue? Cause I’ve been exercising my freedom-of-speech on Yonah, and I’ve got some doozies.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 26, 2015, 1:06 pm

        sure mooser, by all means. whatcha got?

      • Mooser
        January 27, 2015, 3:17 pm

        “sure mooser, by all means. whatcha got?”

        Pictures of Yonah playing pool for money in a pinchback suit, and talking with some out-of-town Jasper about horse-race gambling. Not a dignified trotting race, but the kind of horse-racing where they sit right down on the horse!
        Like to see Yonah try and sit on old Dan Patch! Well, I should say!

    • Kris
      January 25, 2015, 6:02 pm

      Actually, yonah, thanks to Israel’s actions since the 1940s, the word “atrocity” has lost its power to shock. So why do you care? I’m guessing “because Holocaust.” Am I right? “Atrocity” should refer to “Holocaust”? Certainly the Holocaust was a huge atrocity, but it ended before most of us were born.

      Israel has done such an awesome job of making crimes against humanity seem normal in today’s world, that even ” Holocaust” and “antisemitic” have become tedious; “atrocity” is just ho-hum. The U.S. even threatens other countries with “punishment” for trying to hold Israel accountable for atrocities!

      Joseph Massad wrote an interesting article many years ago in which he described how Israel has deliberately been changing international law by normalizing crimes. We know it is deliberate because Massad quoted Israeli officials who said so. By pushing the boundaries, Israel makes the unthinkable seem okay.

      I actually still remember when “extrajudicial assassination” was an outrage. Now, thanks to Israel’s policy of assassinating people without trial, even the President of the U.S. admits to using murder as a tool of foreign policy. Another example: I actually remember when “indefinite detention” was horrifying, an atrocity that only demons like the communists would employ. Another example: torture used to be outside the pale, imagine that!

      Maybe you should complain about something that matters.

      • Mooser
        January 25, 2015, 7:01 pm

        And the word “atrocity” is modified by the word “historic” in front of it. I think the “historic atrocity” being done is to the well-recognized and long standing (“historic”) protocol regarding visits by foreign-heads-of-state during their elections.

      • lysias
        January 25, 2015, 7:15 pm

        When the Count of Monte Cristo was shut up, it was intended forever, in the prison of the Chateau d’Yf, all of Western culture at the time regarded that as an atrocity.

        Unfortunately, the villains like Villefort have now taken over the world.

      • tree
        January 27, 2015, 5:14 pm

        I moved this comment to down below where it belongs.

      • yonah fredman
        January 27, 2015, 8:02 pm

        atrocity. yes, i know what the dictionary says, but check out its usage and i bet you that you’ll see that atrocious is given much greater leeway than atrocity. atrocity- deir yassin and my lai come to mind, not a meeting of the houses of congress. If you really think the use of the word makes phil look level headed, then you are right to dispute me. I think it makes him look silly. but i guess you’re right, phil looking silly helps my cause.

    • tree
      January 25, 2015, 6:30 pm

      Here[s the rub, yonah. You’ve already proven that you don’t know the difference between the words “blowback” and “revenge”, nor the difference between “lascivious” and “blood-thirsty”. So for Phil to get editing critiques from you is rather like a strong swimmer getting pointers from someone who’s barely mastered the dog paddle. And we all know that you think it your self-appointed job to criticize everything that Phil writes, despite your limitations and your inability to see things from other peoples’ points of view (i.e., your faulty mind-reading). So annie’s criticism is valid, whether or not you acknowledge it.

      And now you’ve done it again. I’ m willing to bet that in Phil’s writing above your objection was not because you thought the use of the word “atrocity” was “cheap” but rather because you thought it was an exaggeration or overstatement of the vileness of Netanyahu speaking to Congress. In other words, you thought the word was way too strong a description, rather than being too “cheap”.

      So, given my understanding of what you were really trying to say, here’s my addition to the discussion: If you take the one sentence out of its context and look at it alone, yes, it might appear that using the word “atrocity” to describe Netanyahu speaking to Congress is to hyperbolize the danger of the act. But it’s clear from the context that Phil sees the danger of the speech being in the possibility of Netanyahu’s action giving rise to war with Iran, rather than reaching a negotiated agreement. In that context– war with Iran, which would surely result in a monumental atrocity– Phil’s use of the word “atrocity” seems entirely reasonable and apt in this case.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 25, 2015, 7:17 pm

        a strong swimmer getting pointers from someone who’s barely mastered the dog paddle

        that’s an excellent analogy too tree. and of course, that war with iran.. but also the act itself, to announce directly after the state of the union address (which traditionally is followed by a response by an AMERICAN opposition speaker from the other party) to announce that a foreign leader with a view opposing the president will be addressing a joint session of congress – that’s really lowball gutter politics. and then for the president to find out from the press at the same time as the american public? and that it’s israel? the country that already has congress eating out of it’s hand? can you even imagine if that became routine. to have the PM of israel, the dog’s tail, address congress after the SOU every year? i would die. our forefathers would be rolling in their graves.

        but you’re right , the historic atrocity is a foreign leader pushing us to war. and like iraq, the israelis won’t be dying. they’ll be advising, expanding their illegal colonies, taking our money and planning our next ‘intervention’ on their behalf.

      • yonah fredman
        January 25, 2015, 7:50 pm

        tree- i will take your mention of lascivious and bloodthirsty to give doctor salaita his due. salaita wants to combine jackie mason and fritz fanon and also plausible deniability, like he’s taking a fifth amendment, the right not to self incriminate. he wants to tell you, i hope your children go missing and then say, oh, i meant, this and that. whereas the essence of the 140 character message is that it can be taken more than one way and now he wants to tell us, “like i teach my students, you cannot know what the author meant, he might have meant something else.” mealy mouthed plausible deniability.

        and tell me something tree. who do you love more charlie lindberg or gore vidal?

      • tree
        January 25, 2015, 8:28 pm

        Your mind reading sucks as usual. I mentioned revenge and lascivious because they were previous examples of your improper usage of words. YOU used those words, not Salaita or Deger. I guess you couldn’t stop yourself from beating the same dead horse, as if your comments on Salaita make more sense if you repeat them ad infinitum. They don’t.

        I see up above that you admitted, indirectly of course, that you meant “over the top” and not “cheap” in your latest foray into mean-spirited critiques. Your editorial skills are atrocious, yonah, which is why your comments about Phil get panned here. Glass house, eh?

        And you totally bypassed the chance to comment on the topic at hand, Netanyahu’s planned speech urging more crippling sanctions against Iran. Instead you posit a little menage a trois between me and Lindbergh and Vidal. I love neither of them any more than I love you, yonah. This jealousy of yours is unbecoming, especially since they are both dead.

      • talknic
        January 26, 2015, 9:06 am

        Poor yonah … like all supporters of Israeli belligerence and illegal expansionism desperate to find something, anything that sticks, yonah digs deeper, wider, longer, harder, occasionally flailing around at the emptiness with his little shovel trying to dig upwards, apparently oblivious to the fact that a hole is a hole no matter which way an a hole digs.

        Israel only has only accusations and speculation against Iran. Accusations and speculation are not evidence!

        Nothing justifies Israel’s unfounded accusations against Iran or illegal expansionist policies yonah. Nothing!

      • Mooser
        January 26, 2015, 12:16 pm

        “salaita wants to combine jackie mason and fritz fanon and also plausible deniability, like he’s taking a fifth amendment, the right not to self incriminate.”

        And to think, it was only about a year ago Yonah used to accuse me of being a “Jackie Mason”. But now he’s met a man with a degree, and he’s forgotten all about me.

      • Mooser
        January 26, 2015, 12:25 pm

        “yonah digs deeper, wider, longer, harder, occasionally flailing around at the emptiness with his little shovel trying to dig upwards,”

        Now, now, when I think of the number of people vying, nay, begging, for Yonah’s company, advice, and the benefit of his dissertations, I wonder he has any time to be here at all!

        BTW, Yonah, just love that contempt you have for the right of non-self-incrimination. It’s certainly not one you’ve ever needed.
        But of course, a man should be condemned on the worst possible interpretation of a false quote. Them’s the kind ethics we give to the world.

      • just
        January 26, 2015, 12:51 pm

        Take it away Patsy!

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-wJNpWgss8

        No worries, Mooser. You’ll never be forsaken by the vast majority of SANE folks.

      • Mooser
        January 26, 2015, 2:10 pm

        “who do you love more charlie lindberg or gore vidal?”

        Charles Lindberg the famous Jewish aviator? Big hero of mine, Yonah. There were a lot of airports where he couldn’t land with a name like “Lindberg”! Risked his tuchas every time he flew over the covenanted suburbs by the airfield.

      • yonah fredman
        January 26, 2015, 2:47 pm

        As far as annie robbins quotes of me above: My Omar Barghouti comment was stupid. I was reacting to the atmosphere of the comments section, which means i lost my temper and said something stupid.

        As far as the “mea culpa is the only Yiddish Phil Weiss knows”. I think it is my best ever argumentative sentence and you can quote it all the time if you wish.

        I have focused on the word atrocity rather than the gestalt and that is nicht gut, so I will give a general view.

        Proposed: Iran’s nuclear bomb is my enemy. (Logic: I have flesh and blood in Israel. Iran’s nuclear bomb is their enemy. Iran’s bomb is my enemy.) Bibi is dedicated to obstructing that bomb. So bibi is doing me a service.

        Response: Obstructing Iran’s nukes requires the best strategy rather than the most vulgar strategy. Aligning Israel with America’s interests may be a better strategy than pushing Israel’s face (Bibi’s face) into the Congress versus President and the Democrats versus Republican divide.

        Further: The response to 9/11 was an attack on Iraq, an ongoing debacle. If instead the response to 9/11 had been worrying about Iran’s nuke, then obstructing that nuke would be a nearer goal. Instead the attack on Iraq taxed, tired and tried the impatience of the world-weary US public, so there is insufficient American juice opposing the Iranian nuke and the Israel (Bibi) juice is not sufficient to make up for it.

        Campaign donations is the basis of too much of the US Congress support for Israel (Bibi). Campaign financing is a shame and a scandal. Congress should support its constituents’ views and not campaign dollars. Bibi and his in your face politics is stupid to the eighth power in terms of vulgarity rather than nuance and subtlety.

        I really, really, really dislike Bibi and this move of his to speak to the Congress and how it was unveiled. I actually suspect that this move has more to do with his reelection campaign than with Iran’s nuke. That is: he is risking Israel’s long term interests not for the short term interest of obstructing a nuke, but for the selfish short term interest of getting reelected and if that is indeed the case, he’s even lower than I thought before.

      • Walid
        January 26, 2015, 3:04 pm

        “… I have flesh and blood in Israel. Iran’s nuclear bomb is their enemy. ” (Yonah)

        Yonah. the more you say, the more you’re exposing yourself. An Iranian bomb on Israel would kill more Moslems than it would kill Jews and a bomb on Israel would destroy Islam’s 3rd holiest site. Get a hold on your paranoia; take a nerve pill or a good stiff drink.

      • Kris
        January 26, 2015, 3:41 pm

        @yonah: “Iran’s nuclear bomb is my enemy. (Logic: I have flesh and blood in Israel. Iran’s nuclear bomb is their enemy. Iran’s bomb is my enemy.”

        U.S. intelligence agencies agree that Iran doesn’t have and is not trying to build a nuclear bomb. But just for the sake of discussion, what if Iran had a nuclear bomb, or, even better, hundreds of them, like Israel?

        Wouldn’t your relatives be safer then, because it would be less likely that a crazy in Israel would spread radioactive fallout across the Middle East by nuking one of Israel’s “enemies”?

        Wouldn’t the victims of Nagasaki and Hiroshima be old people now, instead of images burned into sidewalks, if Japan had had a deterrent to the U.S. nuclear bombs? Maybe the Iranians need some nuclear weapons, and should revise their present policy and religious prohibition against them?

      • straightline
        January 26, 2015, 3:52 pm

        @Yonah Netanyahu and other Israeli leaders have been saying that an Iranian bomb is 1 year, 2 years, less than 5 years away, for around 25 years – maybe more. And it has not happened. Meanwhile a number of more trustworthy sources – for instance ones that voiced serious doubts about the claimed active Iraqi WMD program – have been saying that Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program.

        A rational human being would start to doubt the “Iran is about to get a bomb” sources.

        Why a “no response” response (when is a response a “no response”) to giles statement that Netanyahu is a thief, and if he does have dual US-Israeli citizenship which some have claimed, a traitor. You accept that Netanyahu is a thief, but not that he is a liar?

        If Israel wants a war with Iran, so be it – it is their call – Israel is an independent country with an independent foreign policy (unlike mine). But it is not a war that the US or any other Western country should fight – at least not on the side of the aggressor – Israel.

      • lysias
        January 26, 2015, 4:16 pm

        If Israel wants a war with Iran, so be it – it is their call – Israel is an independent country with an independent foreign policy (unlike mine). – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/01/congressperson-netanyahus-speech#comment-142560

        It might have been their call before the International Military Tribunal of Nuremberg, but not after. That court decreed that waging aggressive war is the supreme war crime.

      • just
        January 26, 2015, 4:30 pm

        Well, then we are in deep doo- doo, aren’t we?

      • yonah fredman
        January 26, 2015, 4:30 pm

        straightline- I have not read anything about bibi’s role in Israel’s nuke. but i have read giles comments here and he is primarily a jew hater. so i prefer not to react to him.

        (y’know what let me retract that, because now i will be forced to link to giles stupid comments. he is the nicest kindest man i have ever met and it is totally silly of me not to answer such a straight shooter and lover of mankind.)

      • straightline
        January 26, 2015, 6:13 pm

        @Yonah That is a pretty strong statement about giles. Can you cite evidence?

        Not only have you made a response which is a “no response”, you have made a retraction which is “no retraction”.

      • Keith
        January 26, 2015, 6:54 pm

        YONAH FREDMAN- “Proposed: Iran’s nuclear bomb is my enemy.”

        Logically, therefore, you would be in favor of a nuclear free Middle East, which Iran supports and US/Israel oppose.

        Yonah Fredman: “mea culpa is the only Yiddish Phil Weiss knows”.

        Somewhat clever phraseology, I found it amusing. I also liked “who do you love more charlie lindberg or gore vidal?” I don’t know what it means, but it sounds funny, and that is the important thing.

      • tree
        January 27, 2015, 5:16 pm

        I also liked “who do you love more charlie lindberg or gore vidal?” I don’t know what it means, but it sounds funny, and that is the important thing.

        Keith, it was an attempted dig at me. Sometime in the past I defended Lindbergh against the ludicrous accusation that had he become President of the US he would have rounded up American Jews and put them in camps like the Nazis did in Europe. I also defended Gore Vidal against an accusation that he was an anti-semite because he wrote an opinion piece bashing Marty Peretz.

        In Yonah’s neo-Manichean mind, one cannot defend someone against a spurious allegation unless you love them. Thus, in another classic case of yonah projecting his own feelings onto others, he’s accused me numerous times of loving both Lindbergh and Vidal. In the final analysis its his way of calling me an anti-semite without out-and-out saying it.

        So now he admits he hates Iran’s nuclear bomb, although it doesn’t even exist. Even so much so as to agree with Netanyahu urging more crippling sanctions on Iran and in effect urging on another war which will, in the end, hurt his “flesh and blood’ in Israel and here in the US much more than the non-existent Iranian bomb, or even one that actually existed, as such a bomb would probably have a serious deterrent effect on Israeli war-mongering. Of course that’s not to mention the atrocity it would unleash on Iran, but yonah doesn’t care about that because he has no flesh and blood there. I’m sure I will now be guilty in his mind of “loving” Khamenei and Rouhani, and probably even Ahmedinejad, even though he is no longer President.

      • yonah fredman
        January 27, 2015, 7:03 pm

        tree- regarding lindy, I never asserted that Philip roth’s estimation of a lindy presidency was accurate, but i did assert that his des moines speech was obscene to the nth degree and you twisted his words to turn toxic words into innocent words. If you wish to go back and fight about filthy lindy’s words, let’s at it.

      • yonah fredman
        January 27, 2015, 7:47 pm

        straightline- I realize that i owe you some source material on giles. the reply button here is really difficult to get to, so i will bring you the comments of giles down below.

      • just
        January 27, 2015, 7:58 pm

        yonah~ seems that you like skating on thin ice…

        There’s nothing ‘anti Jewish’ in that quote.

      • Mooser
        January 27, 2015, 8:03 pm

        “As far as the “mea culpa is the only Yiddish Phil Weiss knows”. I think it is my best ever argumentative sentence and you can quote it all the time if you wish.”

        You bet, Yonah! It’s the real Motts Juice!

        Yonah, you are what’s called in English, a “priceless ass”

    • Giles
      January 26, 2015, 10:24 am

      Hey Yonah. Is it okay if we reference Bibi’s role in the theft of nuclear materials from the USA? Or is that an ad hominem or cheapened language or screaming to the choir or some other label?

      • just
        January 26, 2015, 12:59 pm

        +1 !

        (I’ll wait for his response with you, Giles… this could take some time.)

      • yonah fredman
        January 26, 2015, 2:50 pm

        no response to giles and just.

      • just
        January 26, 2015, 5:36 pm

        In the paraphrased words of the late, great Curly Howard:

        sointenly, yonah. nyuk, nyuk, nyuk!

      • Annie Robbins
        January 26, 2015, 8:59 pm

        lol! i go away for a few hours and it gets better and better!

      • yonah fredman
        January 27, 2015, 7:50 pm

        straightline- Here is giles anti Jewish comment number 1:

        Jewish collective memory is delusionary.

        An abiding belief that “their people” have been the victim of the “Other” for 2,000 or 4,000 years.

        It is ridiculous. Jews are, in America, white people, and get all the privileges that go with it.

        They faced a far easier time of it when they first arrived than did the Irish or the Italians, never mind the horror that was visited upon black and brown peoples.

        And, whether they will admit it out loud or not, they long ago replaced the WASPs as the ruling elite in America and in many other Western nations.

        They expect — and receive — special privileges above all others. We see this time and time again.

        I don’t think we do anyone a favor by going along with their delusions. They need to stop being so damned ethnocentric and focus on the brotherhood of all mankind.

        – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/giles#sthash.NQXEdp8z.dpuf

        straightline- anyone who won’t even reveal his own ethnic group and goes and tells jews that they’re too ethnocentric and need to focus on the brotherhood of all mankind, well, maybe you don’t know that he’s an antisemite and in fact there is a .01% chance that he is not, but 99.99%, he’s a jew hater and an enemy.

      • Mooser
        January 27, 2015, 8:14 pm

        “straightline- anyone who won’t even reveal his own ethnic group”

        Yonah, now you are just getting downright mean, and low! Why must you make fun of those less fortunate? Maybe “straightline” is one of those poor creatures who has no ethnic group, and is just a person, all out there in the world by himself without even a minyan to pray with. And you curse him for it? For shame Yonah!

        Oh, BTW, Yonah, I’ve been meaning to ask you, where’s your “ethnic group”? Maybe if you spent more time with them instead of consorting with “an antisemite”, and “a jew hater and an enemy” you would feel better.
        Oh, they won’t talk to you either? Too bad.

      • Mooser
        January 27, 2015, 8:25 pm

        Yonah, (knock, knock, knock)! Yonah (knock, knock, knock)! Yonah (knock, knock, knock)!

        Yonah, quick, there’s a James North article just posted. Why don’t you get a “real journalist” to put the old imprimatur on your word-price estimate? What price “atrocity”? Cheap, or easy?

      • Mooser
        January 27, 2015, 8:47 pm

        “straightline- anyone who won’t even reveal his own ethnic group and goes and tells jews that they’re too ethnocentric and need to focus on the brotherhood of all mankind, well, maybe you don’t know that he’s an antisemite and in fact there is a .01% chance that he is not, but 99.99%, he’s a jew hater and an enemy.”

        Yonah, this is very important! You just may have called someone “antisemite” a “Jew hater” and “an enemy”
        So tell me, Yonah, were you saying, or ‘just saying’?

        I’ve been maintaining that Yonah is very intent on getting himself banned here. (People are beginning to talk, he’s all the time at a tref website, but can’t tear himself away) He is going to go further and further to try and attain that end.
        However, I think it might be fair to say that Yonah has not done much to endear himself to the moderators, so they may see no reason to do him any favors. All guess work on my part, that is. Should be interesting.

      • straightline
        January 27, 2015, 9:27 pm

        @Yonah

        I am not sure if your comment “won’t even reveal his own ethnic group” refers to me or giles but just in case you mean the former I’ll discuss mine. Firstly “his” is a bit of an assumption – though as it turns out, valid. Secondly I don’t even know what “ethnic group” means, really. I have some Irish, Viking, Anglo-Saxon ancestors for sure – but then the overlap between these labels is pretty large – that’s one of the problems with “ethnicity”. Possibly I might have some Roman ancestors too. My grandfather claimed to have had a Jewish birth mother, but as he was adopted that is hard to prove – or disprove. Even then I am not sure what that says about “ethnicity”. So what would you say my “ethnicity” is? I believe I belong to a species called homo sapiens sapiens and the rest is up for grabs. I think I am pretty unique and don’t need a tribal label, but then so are you. In the words of Brian “You’re all individuals”.

        As to your reports of giles comments they do seem to generalize more than I would regard as acceptable and to that extent I personally have some problems with them, but I think also that “jew hating” is also presumptuous on your part, based on the evidence.

      • RoHa
        January 27, 2015, 10:23 pm

        “I think I am pretty unique”

        No, you aren’t.

      • seafoid
        January 27, 2015, 11:05 pm

        @Ro Ha

        “Why can I not speak
        you’re not so unique …”

      • RoHa
        January 27, 2015, 11:27 pm

        Brian to crowd: “You’re all different”
        Crowd (in unison) “We’re all different.”
        Lone voice: “I’m not.”

        RoHa to students: “Here’s a logic problem. Is he the only one who can say that?”

        Student response: [disappointing, as usual.]

      • yonah fredman
        January 28, 2015, 1:22 pm

        straightline- are you an american? do you live in america? were you born in america?

        actually i commented about giles, not about you. i do not recall reading anything by you that stuck in my mind. not for the good and certainly not for the evil. (on the other hand i just started getting to it with giles. he has more gems. i just showered and don’t want to deal with his feces right now, but if you insist we can enter his archive for more.)

        this is the internet. some dude shows up with a name giles and thinks he can preach to the jews how they should change their ways and stop doting on their jewishness and embrace the brotherhood of man. please. give me a break. this is some kind of juvenile do gooder, who thinks that history is to laugh and the present moment only lacks one good preacher, himself. why should i treat such a piece of leftist detritus like anything but detritus? okay, so i exaggerate and call him a hater, rather than an opponent. one good thing about the term antisemite is that it implied opposition rather than hatred. up and up, giles is against the jews unless they are willing to be metaphorically baptised by the waters of brotherhood. go jump in the lake and go play in the traffic. that’s to him and not to you, straightline.

      • straightline
        January 28, 2015, 3:53 pm

        @Yonah

        No I live in an even more ZIonist country than the US – Australia.

        giles can turn up here with whatever name (s)he wants as far as I am concerned.

        JeffB just posted this on another thread:

        Christians are unable to respect Jews because they are a defeated people. So there can’t be a parity.

        I’d be interested in your opinion.

      • yonah fredman
        January 28, 2015, 7:54 pm

        straightline- I would not write those words that JeffB wrote.

        The destruction that the Nazis wrought on the Jews of Europe was rather devastating and among other things was a mark of shame upon Jewish manhood. The inability of US Jews to exert anything near enough power during the years 1933-1945 was a mark of shame on them.

        I think the world is guided by power politics and being stateless is a disadvantage. there is of course soft power along with hard power and the Bibi crew (Ben Gurion too, but Bibi especially) seem to denigrate hearts and minds and value only tanks and walls, but let us not pretend that the first language of the world is anything but power.

        The line i wish to repeat in regards to giles: he thinks history is to laugh.

      • straightline
        January 28, 2015, 8:58 pm

        @Yonah JeffB’s generalization of Christian views is no less inappropriate than giles (or even JeffB’s) generalization of Jewish ones. Neither are valid.

        Nor apparently is your “shame on Jewish manhood” statement:

        http://desip.igc.org/desip/FDRGruberAndMe.html

        Unfortunately the Alfred Lilienthal link has been taken down.

      • yonah fredman
        January 28, 2015, 9:39 pm

        straightline- it seems that you are not interested in my opinion. you are interested in making blanket statements.

        if you wish to discuss the “shame on Jewish manhood” it will take more than your oblique statement to consider this a discussion.

        if you want me to condemn jeffB for being as stupid as giles, then it’s not going to happen.
        if you want to tell me that the US did a lot for the jews between 1933 and 1945, (was that the point of your link?) then you are obtuse.

    • lonely rico
      January 26, 2015, 7:53 pm

      @ 4.09 pm, Mr. Fredman –

      “Don’t go to the House chambers for this historic atrocity. ”

      I couldn’t help but wonder,
      who was he quoting ?
      Where was the quote to be found ?
      I looked and looked, came up empty-handed !?

      I wonder, Mr. Fredman, did you make it up ?
      A fabrication ?
      Perhaps you weren’t really telling the truth ?

      Mr. Fredman, I’ve trusted your posts since forever.

      Has my trust and confidence been ill-placed Mr. Fredman ?

      I worry that your falsification has “cheapened your appeal.”

      • Annie Robbins
        January 26, 2015, 9:03 pm

        rico, he’s quoting phil, the original post:

        That is the moral challenge here. Do you think it’s shocking and inappropriate and outrageous that the Israeli premier is coming here to speak in defiance of the White House? You think this is a plot hatched by neoconservatives behind the president’s back in the last two weeks? You think that politics is supposed to stop at the water’s edge when a possible war hangs in the balance? Fine. Vote with your feet. Don’t go to the House chambers for this historic atrocity.

        fyi, after over 10 years on the computer i finally learned if i clicked “command F” (on an apple, not sure on the other kinds of computers) the browser page offers a search box. place the quote in the search box and it will show you where it is on the page.

    • eljay
      January 27, 2015, 9:11 am

      >> y.f.: “Don’t go to the House chambers for this historic atrocity. ” This cheapening of the language cheapened your appeal.

      Thank goodness he wasn’t also being “namby pamby”!

      his·tor·ic: famous or important in history, or potentially so.
      a·troc·i·ty: an extremely wicked or cruel act, typically one involving physical violence or injury.

      The Republicans’ move to invite the Israeli leader to speak to the U.S. Congress in an effort to undermine the U.S. president’s efforts to negotiate peace with Iran and to lead the U.S. to war against Iran is both “important in history, or potentially so” and “a cruel act” which could result in enormous “physical violence” and “injury”.

      “Historic atrocity” is a very good descriptor of what is happening. But to Zio-supremacists, the Republicans’ goal + methods = “morality” and, well, “morality” simply can’t be an “historic atrocity”.

  8. dx
    January 25, 2015, 5:27 pm

    One thing that seems (to me) is rarely discussed in these conversations about Iran and nuclear weapons and Israel’s fear of an Iranian bomb is that Israel has nuclear weapons, too. Israel is not part of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation agreement, is not inspected by any authority, and does not give any public admission or accounting of their capabilities. And the US lets it go…

    I don’t think it’s a good idea for any country to have a nuclear weapon. I certainly want the negotiations to work. But frankly, Iran seems to have more stability to me than Pakistan. It also seems like for Iran, this is a matter of national pride. Who wants to be told by other countries what they can and cannot do? So the more Congress pushes them, the less likely they will bend. This is basic schoolyard politics.

    Add Israel’s actions into the mix, and it looks like they are trying to bully the US and the US President into doing Israel’s bidding. As an American, I take offense to that. Congress is adding to it and making the country look like we are not in charge of ourselves.

    It takes a high degree of hubris for Israel to point to another country and make all manner of demands on what it can and can’t do when Israel will not own up to its own weapons. Why is Israel allowed to have weapons? Again, we are back to the sandbox, and the idea of what’s fair and what’s not. If Iran were to get an atomic bomb, wouldn’t it just be a stalemate, a classic case of mutually assured destruction?

    To me, it seems like Israel is forever pointing a finger at others and claiming, “Don’t look at me. He’s worse.” Just like a child trying to defer fault. This is not a position of strength. It’s just immature and not something that can be respected on playground, much less on an international stage.

  9. ivri
    January 25, 2015, 5:32 pm

    Excuse me guys. Does anybody really believe that Netanyahu has even a shred of the influence extent it takes to make decisions for the US – as serious as going to war. Adding his view on Iran is really only just that, namely another view heard. And please don`t turn things upside down – Netanyahu is merely a pawn in the internal politics of today`s superpower`s main parties. He may see in that a self-interest advantage in view of the coming election in Israel (and be therefore grateful for the event) but do I believe that those immensely knowledgeable and powerful senators and congressmen will not see what he says as just another view-input? Hearing what he has to say in accepting an invitation to do so from a highly respectable US politician?

    • Annie Robbins
      January 25, 2015, 7:52 pm

      Hearing what he has to say? hasn’t he been making speeches about iran since the early 90’s? we already know what he has to say. and besides, he’s speaking at aipac and all of the congress people will be there anyway. don’t pretend this is business as usual.

      Netanyahu is merely a pawn in the internal politics of today`..

      zzzzz

      • seafoid
        January 25, 2015, 10:11 pm

        Zionism wants Iran to go though the same hell as Libya all so that Israel strings things out for a few more years of paranoia and hatred

        http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/26/human-rights-abuses-libyans-mental-health-problems-report

        “Libya has a practice of not seeking help for psychological problems, and the few trained psychologists and psychiatrists have very limited experience of treating trauma and consequences of torture and war,” the report said.

        “In addition, severe social stigma exists regarding those affected by mental illness. Psychiatric symptoms are attributed to the act of pagan symbols like the evil eye, magic or sorcery.”

        Ahlam Chemlali, one of the Dignity field workers, recalled how “videos of rape and torture were so widespread and popular that people would name characters from the videos, like the ‘butcher from Misrata’ or the ‘rapist from Brega’ as if they were actors playing in a horror snuff movie. Filmed torture seems to have been a consistent way of spreading or exposing fear.”

        The report recalls the exhilaration in Benghazi when the Libyan revolution began in February 2011 but concludes that both the short-term consequences of the internal conflict and the long-term legacy of 42 years of Gaddafi’s rule remain unaddressed.”

        The short term consequences and the long term legacy issues around setting up a Zionist base in the levant were never addressed either.

      • Mooser
        January 27, 2015, 8:29 pm

        “Netanyahu is merely a pawn in the internal politics of today`”

        Just shrimp, who’s merely a prawn in their game? Why, Netanyahoo is virtually a one-man Trefa Banquet!

    • seafoid
      January 25, 2015, 10:23 pm

      Bibi is a wild motherfucker and a chaos monger. I’ve been watching a few films with the kids recently. He is a stock movie villain like Mandrake in Epic

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYEz9hLYgPI

      kids get a lot of chaos packed into 2 hours at the cinema but it always ends well. And it’s the same in the MSM. But in the real world the trauma just goes on and on for anyone unfortunate enough to be an deemed an enemy of Zionism.

    • bryan
      January 26, 2015, 3:25 am

      Ivri – your protestations that Netanyahu lacks “the influence it takes to make decisions for the US” and “is merely a pawn in the internal politics of today’s superpower’s main parties” would be more convincing were it not for the clear parallel of the Project for the New American Century, when a small clique of Neo-cons, Likudniks and Zionists, aided and abetted by agitators within the pro-Israel media and think-tank lobbyists cynically exploited 9/11 and allegations of WMD to demand American action to achieve regime-change in Iraq. Do you want to go there again (either literally or figuratively)?

    • talknic
      January 26, 2015, 9:22 am

      @ ivri “Excuse me guys. Does anybody really believe that Netanyahu has even a shred of the influence extent it takes to make decisions for the US – as serious as going to war”

      Lemme see now. Who is he going to address? Mmmmm …. nothing scheduled here

      ” but do I believe that those immensely knowledgeable and powerful senators and congressmen will not see what he says as just another view-input?”

      Uh huh … those immensely knowledgeable and powerful senators and congressmen

  10. Atlantaiconoclast
    January 25, 2015, 5:36 pm

    My congressperson, John Lewis, says he does not support further sanctions at this time, per a conversation I had with one of his assistants. Maybe there is support among the members of the Black Caucus for standing with Obama on this issue. You would think…..

  11. Donald
    January 25, 2015, 5:50 pm

    Kind of a nitpick, but that phrase “politics stops at the water’s edge”‘ is false. It’s usually used by warmongers to shut down opposition to some US plan to go to war and once the war starts the phrase is then used to slap down criticism of that war. In the run up to the Iraq War people opposed to the war were criticized in just this way. It’s a phrase that makes no sense except as a way of telling people with dissident views on foreign policy that they should shut up.

  12. a blah chick
    January 25, 2015, 7:11 pm

    Larry Derfner got another article up at 972mag in which he talks about Butcher Bibi and his racism. It needs to be spread far and wide.

  13. JLewisDickerson
    January 25, 2015, 7:19 pm

    RE: “Tell your congressperson not to undermine our president’s efforts to strike a deal with Iran. Tell your congressperson not to attend the speech. That’s right. Tell your congressperson to give Benjamin Netanyahu the cold shoulder, lest he lead our country to war, or undermine the American president on his efforts to strike a deal with Iran.” ~ Weiss

    FROM: Kevin Martin, Peace Action – http://peace-action.org/
    Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 3:43 PM
    To: dickerson
    Subject: Tell your Senators – Support diplomacy with Iran

    The U.S. and its international allies are within reach of a peaceful resolution to the issue of Iran’s nuclear program. Negotiations about Iran’s nuclear program look very promising, with a framework agreement likely by March and a final deal possible by a June deadline. You may have seen promising media reports in the last day or two about negotiations in Geneva between Secretary of State John Kerry and Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammed Javad Zarif, which is very good news.

    However, conservative senators and even some supposed liberals are dead set on imposing new economic sanctions on Iran, which will risk scuttling the talks and putting us on a reckless path toward yet another Middle East war.

    Contact your senators today and tell them diplomacy is the only answer, not more sanctions and threats of war. – http://org.salsalabs.com/o/161/p/dia/action3/common/public/?action_KEY=16988

  14. Taxi
    January 25, 2015, 11:54 pm

    A sign of things to come?

    McCain get booed while giving a speech on foreign policy, gets called a warmonger:

    http://phoenix.suntimes.com/phx-politics-government/7/83/112378/john-mccain-booed-republicans-video#comments

  15. Kay24
    January 26, 2015, 2:41 am

    Unfortunately my senator is Menendez, the one who is a co-sponsor to the resolution calling for more sanctions on Iran. He is a disappointing man, who suddenly became Israel’s champion and best friend, after his little escapade in the Dominican Republican suddenly went away. He is even more slavish to Israel than some of the Jewish congress people. I wrote a few times to him questioning him about why he chooses to support Israel over his own President, and does not support Obama’s efforts in getting an agreement with Iran, instead of war, and he writes back giving a whole load of BS and how Israel is our dear ally.
    I am pleased I never voted for him.

    • Kay24
      January 26, 2015, 6:20 am

      Like his boss Netanyahu, Dermer thinks breaking the rules is okay. He is getting a lot of heat from Israeli officials, but he does not seem to care. After all, this ridiculous speech by Bibi in Congress, was organized by him. If by chance Netanyahu loses, most probably Dermer will be recalled from his lucrative post. They both deserve to go.

      • just
        January 26, 2015, 6:29 am

        The GoI has been ‘breaking the rules’ since the beginning… they’ve never been held accountable for any of their myriad crimes.

        Netanyahu, Dermer, et al are the latest iteration.

  16. Kay24
    January 26, 2015, 7:28 am

    Don’t forget to remind your spineless congress people, that the ILLEGAL settlement building goes on and on…..despite Bibi pretense of halting some:

    “West Bank settlement expansion planned against Netanyahu’s orders
    Ministry allocates some $215,000 for Efrat expansion beyond security barrier, despite prime minister’s order to shelve plan due to wide international protests.

    The Housing and Construction Ministry allocated 850,000 shekels ($215,000) for the expansion of the settlement of Efrat in the West Bank last October, despite Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu having reversed the decision to build on the site.” Haaretz

    Must be a good cop bad cop situation.

  17. DoyDoy
    January 26, 2015, 9:53 am

    Netanyahu must stay home ! He is not welcome here ! That man is king of genocide.

  18. fpm
    January 26, 2015, 10:45 am

    I called and sent emails to all of our elected officials here in Minneapolis, MN., the minute I learned what treacherous Boehner and Ron D, and evil Netanyahu did to disrespect a sitting President of the United States of America. I consider what Boehner and Ron D, did as Treason. I made it clear that I would not be voting for anyone who sits in that audience listening to the devil himself and if you must attend, I hope I don’t see you giving this sick twisted psycho any standing ovations. This congress is treacherous. They can’t get a damn thing done to improve the lives of the citizens in the US, but they sure can work for their master and President, Netanyahu. We don’t need to hear a damn thing out of his sick evil mouth.

    • Annie Robbins
      January 26, 2015, 1:13 pm

      I consider what Boehner and Ron D, did as Treason.

      just for the record fpm, i think dermer had to relinquish his US citizenship to become israel’s ambassador. therefore, technically, he could not be charged with treason at this time. however, there’s a strong likelihood he will seek to get it back in the future. perhaps we could rethink the treason charges at that time!

  19. [email protected]
    January 26, 2015, 6:57 pm

    Done! Hang in their Phillip. Whenever I feel shamed to have an American passport, as often happens, I think of you. ‘One just man….’

  20. Kathleen
    January 26, 2015, 7:14 pm

    Great idea Phil. Will do. Have called but will call again. Folks should also be clear with the aides they talk with. Iran has the legal right to enrich up to 20% for peaceful purposes as legal signatories to the NPT. Mention Israel has refused to sign the NPT and continues to refuse to sign. Bring this hypocrisy. Let them know you do not want Israel to drag the U.S. into another confrontation based on unsubstantiated claims. Explain why you do not want your Reps to attend and to vote no on any new sanctions.

  21. Kathleen
    January 27, 2015, 5:52 am

    Yonah sure drug folks down the rabbit hole. He focuses on the use of “atrocity” then later starts making claims about Iran having a nuclear bomb which there is no proof of. He makes outrageous claims which is the standard and now accepted method of those ultimately pushing for a military confrontation with Iran. Of course he never gets near the truth that Israel has nuclear, biological and chemical weapons that go un inspected by the international community. That Israel has and continues to refuse to sign the NPT. That Israel’s nukes and other chemical and biological weapons are a continuous threat to peace in the middle east. That leaders in that region have written to heads of the IAEA begging for more pressure on Israel based on their stockpiles and threat to the region. He never gets near the fact that Iran has pushed for a Middle East Nuclear Free Zone. That Former President Jimmy Carter, Norman Finkelstein and others have indicated that they think Israel would use their nuclear weapons on the region if they felt so inclined. That Israel also continues to refuse to sign the Chemical Weapons Convention Treaty.

    Hope folks find their way out of Yonah’s rabbit hole and contact their Reps asking as Phil has suggested to refrain from attending Netanyahu’s propoganda speech and also vote against more sanctions. Clearly President Obama, VP Biden, Secretary of State Kerry have all taken stands against more sanctions against Iran. All members of the P5+1 have done so. U.K’s David Cameron has been contacting Reps asking them not to undermine negotiations with Iran with a vote for more sanctions. Even the often warmongering HIllary Clinton has said more sanctions against Iran are a bad idea.

    Contact your Reps. Encourage others to do the same. Share Phil’s piece about this issue with others!

  22. Pixel
    January 27, 2015, 5:36 pm

    @Mooser

    “Just across town from Mondoweiss Plaza…”

    LOL!

    • Mooser
      January 27, 2015, 8:35 pm

      “Just across town from Mondoweiss Plaza…

      Or, as the locals impressed by the compassion of the Mondo staff call it: “The Fortress of Solicitude”.

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