ICC opens war crimes inquiry into Israel over Gaza war as Palestinians prepare another UN resolution

Israel/Palestine
on 66 Comments

In advance of the Palestinian government’s official ascension to the International Criminal Court (ICC) in three months, a prosecutor for the court has opened an inquiry into possible war crimes carried out by Israel. The ICC will conduct a “preliminary examination” and not an official investigation. The review will cover alleged violations “in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem, since June 13, 2014,” focusing on the summer war in Gaza according to a statement by the ICC.

These types of initial ICC examinations are procedural following a complaint. After the Palestinians joined the Rome Statue they turned in a declaration to the International Criminal Court asking it look into Israeli war crimes. The ICC will review the case with no commitment to take any further action. It does not mean the ICC will present charges against Israel. At the close of this examination, if ICC decides not to try Israel the Palestinians can still file their own case. Moreover, the Palestinians can not present charges directly against Israel until April 1, 2015 when their entry to the court goes into effect.

Meanwhile the Palestinian leadership is continuing to build their own case against Israel in the international court.

“The files that we are in the process of preparing is every single thing related to the aggression in Gaza and the on-going settlement expansion in West Bank and East Jerusalem,” said Palestinian Liberation Organization’s Negotiation Affairs Department Spokesperson Ashraf Khatib to Mondoweiss. In Gaza, specifically the Palestinians hope to bring a “list of issues that will be under the recent aggression,” he continued. Khatib added the charge sheet will include, “The act of deliberate attack on civilians that also includes usage of illegal weapons,” and the “targeting of UN instillations, schools, hospitals–things that violated fourth Geneva Convention and international law when it comes to humanitarian protection.”

At the moment the Palestinians do not have a firm deadline for taking Israel to The Hague. Khatib said they are waiting for the publication of a United Nations Human Rights Commission report on alleged war crimes carried out by both Israel and the Palestinians. That data is expected to comprise the bulk of the research in the Palestinian petition. The commission will submit the report in March 2015 and is currently hearing testimony by those effected from the war. This past week an Israeli mother whose child was killed from rocket fire presented evidence to the commission even though Israel is officially boycotting the hearings.

A return to the Security Council

However, before reaching the ICC the Palestinians hope to re-file a United Nations Security Council resolution to end Israel’s occupation through negotiations. The leadership is building momentum to present the Security Council with another draft resolution “in the coming few months, even less,” said Khatib.

“It was illogically treated as a confrontational and irrational effort and regrettably obstructed,” Palestinian Ambassador to the United Nations Riyad Mansour said on Thursday about the last resolution that did not pass. “In spite of this setback, we will continue to approach the Security Council,” he continued.

Over the past few days Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas has met with heads of states on his renewed effort. He seeks to pass this resolution, the third since mid-December, by winning over countries that voted against him in late December. To the surprise of the Palestinians Nigeria voted against them and the United Kingdom abstained in the last round.

On Thursday Abbas spoke with delegates from the Arab League in Cairo, and while in France attending the march following the killings at the Charlie Hebdo offices he also sat with the French President Francois Hollande. “Now we are discussing the moment—let’s say the moment or the time to go back to the Security Council,” said Khatib.

The Palestinians did have an offer from France and the United Kingdom to allow them to submit a resolution on their behalf, which was widely regarded as having a better chance of success at the Security Council. Yet they are again looking to Jordan, the Arab partner on the Security Council, to submit their resolution. Khatib said the new draft will not have any substantive changes. Right now the leaders are discussing with the Arab league ways to “strengthen the language” and close “loopholes,” he added.

Israel has already come out against a future draft resolution and litigation at the ICC. “The Palestinians are under the impression that the United Nations is their personal vending machine,”  said Ambassador Ron Prosor on Wednesday at the Security Council in a debate on Middle East Peace.

Prosor slammed the Palestinian’s last foray at the Security Council in particular, because “It didn’t address Israel’s long-term security needs. It didn’t demand an end to Palestinian terrorism. And it didn’t recognize Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people.” Instead he called to return to the Roadmap outlined in 2003 under the Bush administration, which calls for a restart of peace talks to build a framework on final status issues.

“The international community must stop encouraging this march of folly. Tell the Palestinians that the claim of return is a nonstarter, make it clear that peace requires compromise, and insist that they return to direct negotiations,” Prosor said.

About Allison Deger

Allison Deger is the Assistant Editor of Mondoweiss.net. Follow her on twitter at @allissoncd.

Other posts by .


Posted In:

66 Responses

  1. Stephen Shenfield
    January 16, 2015, 5:36 pm

    “Peace requires compromise.” So if Israel already possesses, say, 90 percent of Palestine, the Palestinians must agree to a settlement that gives Israel 95 percent. If in the meantime Israel grabs some more and reaches, say, 98 percent, leaving only 2 percent, then the Palestinians must agree to make do with just 1 percent. Only a fanatic would object.

    Clausewitz pointed out that the occupier always wants peace, which he interprets as submission to occupation.

    • Krauss
      January 17, 2015, 4:46 am

      And civility is the language of the powerful.

      Those without it, must learn to be “civil”, which is really just another way of submitting before rules that the aggressors have set before them.

    • CigarGod
      January 17, 2015, 9:21 am

      Yep…and they want them to screw over 7 million refugee’s…their own family members. Im not aware of a wedge that would make this possible.

  2. a blah chick
    January 16, 2015, 5:55 pm

    I just don’t understand the hissy fits Israel keeps throwing over the ICC. Can’t they just ignore it like they do everything else? It’s not like they won’t have powerful friends to help them out. What can the ICC really do to them?

    • Bornajoo
      January 16, 2015, 6:27 pm

      @abc
      I’m afraid very little, especially when you have big brother on your side (or is it twin brother?). Maybe a bit of embarrassment? Water off a duck’s back for that mob.

    • JeffB
      January 16, 2015, 6:55 pm

      @blah

      What I suspect is that no one wants to see this justice thing get out of hand. Same argument that came up last decade regarding universal jurisdiction. Kidnapping other country’s leaders is an act of war. OTOH we have all these treaties that pretend as if everyone is absolutely on the same page and has agreed to forgo war crimes….

      The Netherlands is not going to want to be in a situation where Israel is serious pissed. KPMG, Elsevier, Philips, Unilever… are just too vulnerable. So nothing much is going to happen without Israel’s implicit consent.

      This means that visits and activities by Israelis create tension. They force other countries, particularly European countries to deal with their hypocrisy. Take for example the situation of the CIA torturing Italians. The Italian courts had this big show of convicting them in absentia and issuing international warrants. The one of them (Robert Seldon Lady) gets caught in Panama. The CIA makes it clear to Italy they would consider a plane carrying Lady to be a hostile aircraft, and his arrest warrant or not a kidnapping. So the Italians won’t touch him (they were in negotiations with the CIA) and Panama releases him.

      Israel doesn’t have nearly that kind of pull, but they have enough. And that doesn’t even mention that what it comes to evidence against specific individuals for specific acts and not just “Israel” that kind of evidence would be hard to get.

      So an indictment will be annoying for Israel. First of all the person responsible won’t be able to travel easily. France, Britain… aren’t going to want to arrest them but they aren’t going to want to openly not arrest them either. Also there is going to be all this PR about “harboring an indicted war criminal” the same as the “settlements are illegal”.

      It is just bad all around. Bad for the UN. Bad for the ICC. Bad for Europe’s self image. Ultimately you want to put another’s county’s leadership in cages you gotta have the war. And nobody cares that much.

      • seafoid
        January 17, 2015, 2:06 am

        It depends Jeffy. Take out KPMG – sounds fairly drastic, dare I say Masada like. For a court defenestration sometimes no violence is needed especially when the people turn against the hero. That is what the bots are afraid of. A stitch up. So they’ll scream and scream and scream. But the essence of tragedy is the remorseless working of things. And contingency is so cruel.

      • talknic
        January 17, 2015, 3:58 am

        @ JeffB “What I suspect is that no one wants to see this justice thing get out of hand. “

        Interesting thing to say. To some folk I guess justice must be like Holy Water to Nosferatu. Wouldn’t want justice getting out of hand and spilling over everywhere, washing away the livelihoods of those who earn their living via injustice.

      • Boomer
        January 17, 2015, 7:28 am

        talknic wisely observed: “To some folk I guess justice must be like Holy Water to Nosferatu. Wouldn’t want justice getting out of hand and spilling over everywhere, washing away the livelihoods of those who earn their living via injustice.” So true. It’s fine to quote Amos and say things like “let justice roll on like a river, and righteousness like a never failing stream.” It sounds good anyway you translate it. But you wouldn’t want it to get out of hand.
        http://biblehub.com/amos/5-24.htm

      • amigo
        January 17, 2015, 8:50 am

        Talknic , what do you think?.Is this Sgt Jeffy Northridge of Haaretz fame.The Arab hater and “Gook” killer who bragged about his exploits in Nam in a very Bennett like manner.

        His posts are much the same as the racist supremacist bile posted on Haaretz and Y,Net news by northridge.

      • CigarGod
        January 17, 2015, 9:25 am

        Yeah, right.
        Here is the future:
        An Arab version of the Simon Weisenthal organization that kidnaps war criminals.

      • Felipe
        January 17, 2015, 10:53 am

        Yes, this justice “thing” must not get out of hand. Otherwise, actual criminals might actually face indictments and, gasp, REAL prosecutions. Imagine that….justice actually being served!!! What a novel idea!!!.

        As for the Israel, why does it not become a signatory to the ICC? Why pass up a chance to bring that most evil of Islamofacist terrorist organizations, HAMAS, to trial at the ICC. Why not expose these terrorists to the rest of the world and prove, once and for all, just how evil they are? I mean Israel can surely afford a top notch legal team of experts and make a solid case against these monsters, right?

      • eljay
        January 17, 2015, 12:30 pm

        >> JeffBeee: What I suspect is that no one wants to see this justice thing get out of hand.

        Right, because if justice gets out of hand, accountability and equality might follow and, well, that would make things very uncomfortable for Jewish and other supremacists and (war) criminals.

      • talknic
        January 17, 2015, 10:13 pm

        @ JeffB “So an indictment will be annoying for Israel. First of all the person responsible won’t be able to travel easily. “

        An indictment by the ICC isn’t necessary to curtail travel. All signatories to relative conventions are obliged to arrest alleged perpetrators

        E.g., http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1354211/George-W-Bush-cancels-Switzerland-visit-fears-arrest-torture-charges.html

      • talknic
        January 18, 2015, 1:44 am

        @ boomer 24 “But let justice roll down like waters And righteousness like an ever-flowing stream”

        It goes on :-)

        25″Did you present Me with sacrifices and grain offerings in the wilderness for forty years, O house of Israel? 26″You also carried along Sikkuth your king and Kiyyun, your images, the star of your gods which you made for yourselves. 27″Therefore, I will make you go into exile beyond Damascus,” says the LORD, whose name is the God of hosts.

    • Rusty Pipes
      January 16, 2015, 9:00 pm

      Spoil their travel plans?

      • talknic
        January 18, 2015, 9:42 pm

        @ Rusty Pipes “Spoil their travel plans?”

        Travel seems to feature heavily 27 ″Therefore, I will make you go into exile beyond Damascus,” says the LORD…

    • Kay24
      January 16, 2015, 9:33 pm

      I don’t know if you noticed, but Israel is like a spoilt Diva, everything must be about her, and she throws a tantrum when she does not get her way. It helps to have sugar daddy give her goodies and protect her from the big bad world. She also has a sense of entitlement. :))

      • Krauss
        January 17, 2015, 4:49 am

        That was a funny analogue, not just because the way you put it, but also because its true :D

      • CigarGod
        January 17, 2015, 9:37 am

        Funny…reminds me of a hard to find woody allen quote:

        “I used to be of the Jewish persuasion, but then i converted to narcissism”.

    • CigarGod
      January 17, 2015, 9:31 am

      I wouldnt want my name on a list of suspected war criminals. The list could end up being a big one. Rats are predictable under pressure…they tend to turn on each other…blaming the other as being the bigger rat. It’s a prosecutors wet dream.

    • Taxi
      January 17, 2015, 11:10 am

      “What can the ICC really do to them?” – BlahChick.

      The ICC investigation is only like the biggest de-legitimization instrument on the planet – the very thing the zios fear.

      No PR company with a golden rolodex can fix that level of dishonor. No you cannot put lipstick on a war criminal.

      The ICC procedure will also make people less likely to fall for the jewish ‘eternal victim’ bs that Western culture is saturated with. Less money for the holocaust industry too

      The investigation will expose the sickness that is israeli society to the whole world. That’s enough for me – the armed resistance in the Levant and beyond will take care of the rest in good time – is what I predict.

  3. Bornajoo
    January 16, 2015, 6:20 pm

    Well said Stephen Shenfield.

    Prosor’s remarks remind me of the comments of the Jodi Rudoren (NYT) article stating that the Palestinians must make concessions to achieve peace. I was thinking about what other concessions they might make. Now let’s see…they’ve already given lives, land, rights…. But I bet they’re still hiding something up their sleeves! Nobody’s mentioned their souls yet….

    Thank you Allison

    • Kay24
      January 16, 2015, 9:40 pm

      I attended a very good talk by the PA representative, Maen Rashid Areikat, at Princeton University, and when he was asked what guarantees the Palestinians can give, to assure Israel of it’s security, he said that it is strange a military occupier must be assured of security by the occupied people. It was a great point considering how helpless the Palestinian people are.
      The Israelis have successfully played victim for years, while the victims keep looking like the evil entity, no thanks to the zionist media.

      • Marnie
        January 17, 2015, 4:43 am

        There’s no shame in their game is there? They have nuclear weapons and the most advanced weaponry for their teenage soldiers to play with but they need assurances from the people without a military and only homemade bottle rockets. Ah, to be the eternal victim.

  4. pabelmont
    January 16, 2015, 6:47 pm

    In 1988, PLO recognized Israel with UNGA 181 (1947) as its birth certificate (and also birth certificate for the future Palestinian state, I suppose).

    OK. The territory of Israel in 1988 was generally understood to be its pre-1967 territory, quite a bit larger than set out for a Jewish state on UNGA 181. If PLO accepted THAT territory, it had already made a huge concession vis-a-vis UNGA 181.

    So the issue squarely before us is this: how many times does Israel get to demand concessions from PLO before the nations get tired and shut down the whole charade?

    Oh, and did the Charlie Hebdo terrorists or their (supposed) sponsors happen to mention Palestine as a grievance over and beyond the cartoons? And if so, will the nations ever decide to cut their losses by ending I/P with a “just and lasting peace” or will it be more of the usual, “millions for defence but not a cent for tribute”?

  5. Whizdom
    January 16, 2015, 6:50 pm

    Prosor’s remarks were interesting, a shift in rhetoric, but not tone, from previous meetings. With no sense of irony he accused the Palestinians of refusing to negotiate. Water rights came up.

  6. seafoid
    January 16, 2015, 9:00 pm

    ““The Palestinians are under the impression that the United Nations is their personal vending machine,” said Ambassador Ron Prosor on Wednesday at the Security Council in a debate on Middle East Peace. ”

    I can imagine Arthur Seyss-Inquart saying the same to anyone objecting to the treatment of the Jews in the Netherlands during World War 2.
    The notion that certain people have the same rights as others is abhorrent to Nazis and those who channel their spirit.

  7. eljay
    January 16, 2015, 9:09 pm

    “The Palestinians are under the impression that the United Nations is their personal vending machine,” said Ambassador Ron Prosor on Wednesday at the Security Council in a debate on Middle East Peace.

    “The reality is that there’s only one vending machine – the United States of America – and it’s ours.”

    Prosor slammed the Palestinian’s last foray at the Security Council in particular, because “It didn’t address Israel’s long-term security needs. It didn’t demand an end to Palestinian terrorism. And it didn’t recognize Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people.”

    Israel has been recognized as the nation state of the Israeli people. “Jewish State” is a religion-supremacist construct, and no-one – not even the Palestinians – should be expected or required to recognize or accept any state as a supremacist state.

    • johneill
      January 17, 2015, 2:32 pm

      i’m not entirely sure why the united states supports a theocracy, calls it a state for a certain religious people, and refuses to recognize that such states cannot be democracies – let alone ‘the only democracy in the middle east’ (tho egypt was the largest democracy for a short few weeks). but it’s apparent that large swaths of the american public accept the democracy myth, and loudly exclaim that only one religion deserves it’s own country. the mind boggles.

  8. seafoid
    January 16, 2015, 9:15 pm

    “In advance of the Palestinian government’s official ascension to the International Criminal Court (ICC) in three months, a prosecutor for the court has opened an inquiry into possible war crimes carried out by Israel.”

    It would be so good to hear Shmuley Facepalm respond to this by noting that “they always come for the Jews”.

  9. Mayhem
    January 17, 2015, 12:21 am

    “ICC’s new prosecutor on Arab conflicts, how Islam plays a role in guiding her and her vision for the international court”
     
    Al Arabiya asked Bensouda whether she, as prosecutor of the ICC, would refuse a referral, if she didn’t believe in it; she replied “absolutely”.
     
    On whether her religion plays any role in helping her do the job that she has been elected to do, she said: “Absolutely, definitely. Islam, as you know, is a religion of peace, and it gives you this inner strength, this inner ability and a sense of justice. Together with my experience, this will help a lot.”

    Jews, who have suffered from endemic Islamic hatred since the birth of Islam, are to feel confident that Bensouda is best suited to her extraordinary role and responsibility? The world appeases Islam yet again by acceding to a Muslim having jurisdiction over Jews in such irrevocably compromised circumstances.

     
    Refer http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2011/12/15/182694.html

    The ICC further diminishes its credibility:

    “But the (ICC) prosecutor (Bensouda) did not actually determine the Palestine qualifies as a “state” under the well-established legal definitions of the term.  Rather, she said that the U.N. General Assembly’s vote in 2012 to call Palestine a “non-member state” is dispositive of the question. In short, she substituted the determination of the General Assembly for her own. The GA is not a judicial body, but a political one. Its determinations are political, not legal. (It also has no power under the U.N. Charter, to create or recognize states.)

    “Statehood, however, is a legal term, with legal criteria (“the Montevideo test”), which involve judgement and the application of law to facts. Of particular relevance is the requirement that to become a state, a territory have a functioning government exercising supreme control in at least part of its claimed territory. The requirements for the creation of a state do not mirror those for its extinguishing. Thus the possibility of a “state under occupation,” to use the Palestinian’s favored term, does not preempt the need for there to first be a state under Montevideo definitions. The Palestinians, however, claim all of their territory is and has always been under the control of Israel.

    “The U.N. General Assembly need not be troubled by such legal problems because it is an explicitly political body. It need not be coherent or consistent, unlike a court. For the Prosecutor to take the judgements of such a body on the application of legal terms in the Rome Statute to particular facts as binding upon the Court is to surrender her independence. The Court’s statute, as well as its press releases, demand and proclaim its independence. Yet decisions like this one violate independence, making it a mere organ of the U.N., and of the General Assembly at that.”

    So much for legal niceties …

    Refer http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/01/16/icc-prosecutor-undermines-courts-independence/

    • Annie Robbins
      January 17, 2015, 2:13 am

      “The world appeases zionism yet again by acceding to a jew having jurisdiction over muslims in such irrevocably compromised circumstances.”

      whoops, that wasn’t really your quote was it. sounds like the occupation tho, doesn’t it?

    • talknic
      January 17, 2015, 6:17 am

      Mayhem shows us how to do stupid and conflation

      @ Mayhem “ICC’s new prosecutor ….”

      ” The world appeases Islam yet again by acceding to a Muslim having jurisdiction over Jews in such irrevocably compromised circumstances. “

      A) prosecutor The prosecutor might decide if a case is warranted, however, I’ve yet to hear of a prosecutor judging a case.

      B) The ICC cannot prosecute “Jews”. The issue is the possibility of Israeli war crimes. The religion of the possible perpetrators is irrelevant

    • Bornajoo
      January 17, 2015, 2:36 pm

      “The world appeases Islam yet again by acceding to a Muslim having jurisdiction over Jews in such irrevocably compromised circumstances.”

      Really Mayhem? Oh dear, how terrible. Now please remind me who was in charge of the previous investigation into Israeli war crimes, the investigation about war crimes committed in Gaza during Cast Lead when 1300 people including women and children were slaughtered? Oh yes it was Judge Richard Goldstone; a Jew! And he did originally state that Israel did in fact commit war crimes and stated so in writing. Then he came under intense pressure (i can only imagine from how many sources) to water down the report which he duly did.

      Jerry Slater wrote about this extensively and you can read about the retraction here:

      http://www.jeromeslater.com/2011/04/goldstone-retraction.html?m=1

      So please stop your pathetic whining. Israel is so used to getting a free pass on everything, so used to being able to act with complete and utter impunity, so used to being bailed out and protected by the world’s Big Brother, that now there is an actual possibility of real impartiality, you are all freaking out. And you and yours are not freaking out because she’s a Muslim, it’s because israel is guilty. And that’s a fact

    • talknic
      January 17, 2015, 7:34 pm

      @ Mayhem Let’s examine what you’ve chosen from the WAPO drivelfest

      “The Court’s statute, as well as its press releases, demand and proclaim its independence. Yet decisions like this one violate independence, making it a mere organ of the U.N., and of the General Assembly at that.”

      Eugene Kontorovich must be hoping no one will check the Rome Statute. http://www.icc-cpi.int/NR/rdonlyres/ADD16852-AEE9-4757-ABE7-9CDC7CF02886/283503/RomeStatutEng1.pdf

      Rome Statute – Done at Rome on 17 July 1998, in force on 1 July 2002, United Nations, Treaty Series, vol. 2187, No. 38544, Depositary: Secretary-General of the United Nations, http://treaties.un.org.

      Article 2
      Relationship of the Court with the United Nations
      The Court shall be brought into relationship with the United Nations through an agreement to be approved by the Assembly of States Parties to this Statute and thereafter concluded by the President of the Court on its behalf.

      Article 21
      Applicable law
      1. The Court shall apply:
      (a) In the first place, this Statute, Elements of Crimes and its Rules of Procedure
      and Evidence;
      (b) In the second place, where appropriate, applicable treaties and the principles
      and rules of international law
      , including the established principles of the
      international law of armed conflict
      ;

      Whether contained in reminders, i.e., emphasized and re-affirmed in UNGA/UNSC and resolutions by other UN bodies or by the ICC or in ICJ opinions, all International Law, ratified conventions, treaties and the UN Charter, are binding.

      “The U.N. General Assembly need not be troubled by such legal problems because it is an explicitly political body. It need not be coherent or consistent, unlike a court. For the Prosecutor to take the judgements of such a body on the application of legal terms in the Rome Statute to particular facts as binding upon the Court is to surrender her independence.”

      Problem again with poor Eugene’s theory is that:
      A) All law is binding, including International Law (determined by legislature or being voted into existence) and Customary International Law (not voted into existence but automatically passed into Customary International Law by a majority of states having adopted the same legal customs )
      B) The UN Charter is binding in its entirety on all UN Member states.
      C) Conventions ratified by UN Member states and non-Member states are binding on those states and all conventions ratified by a majority of states automatically pass into Customary International Law, which is binding on all states.

      D) the International laws, treaties, relative conventions and UN Charter re-affirmed and emphasized in UNGA resolutions are not the ‘judgement’ of of UNGA, they’re reminders to the parties of existing International Law et al.

      “The ICC further diminishes its credibility:

      “But the (ICC) prosecutor (Bensouda) did not actually determine the Palestine qualifies as a “state” under the well-established legal definitions of the term. Rather, she said that the U.N. General Assembly’s vote in 2012 to call Palestine a “non-member state” is dispositive of the question. In short, she substituted the determination of the General Assembly for her own. The GA is not a judicial body, but a political one. Its determinations are political, not legal”

      Again he’s blowing it out of his rrrrrrs with his “incomplete quotes”. You can read the actual ICC Press Release for yourself http://www.icc-cpi.int/en_menus/icc/press%20and%20media/press%20releases/Pages/pr1083.aspx

  10. seafoid
    January 17, 2015, 2:16 am

    “Prosor slammed the Palestinian’s last foray at the Security Council in particular, because “It didn’t address Israel’s long-term security needs. It didn’t demand an end to Palestinian terrorism. And it didn’t recognize Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people.”

    and in East London a poster advertising Holocaust Remembrance day is defaced with the word “liars”

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/16/holocaust-memorial-day-posters-defaced-london-antisemitic-uk-jewish

    Zionist violence + political influence + global deflation= ultra dangerous

    • Mayhem
      January 17, 2015, 3:53 am

      seafoid, seems to be having a few problems with the world.

      As he draws our attention what is the message?

      In his equation he forgot to add in the item ‘Muslim Anti-semitism’ and misread ‘assertion of Israel as a Jewish state’ as ‘Zionist violence’ which gives a different answer i.e. ultra dangerous becomes Islamic terrorism.

      • seafoid
        January 17, 2015, 2:26 pm

        Muslims despise the double standard on Israel. Zionism is violence.
        Ultra dangerous because if others choose violence who is to say they are wrong?

    • Bornajoo
      January 17, 2015, 5:06 am

      Seafoid
      I live not too far from there. You know, as much as I keep trying I’m still an anti semitic incident virgin. I’m in my 50s now and still waiting for something anti semitic to happen to me. And my surname is unmistakably Jewish

      The area I live in is predominantly Muslim these days, as are most of my neighbours. But you know, nothing! They just keep smiling and saying hello to me. And I get out and about all over the place. I have a brother who still lives right in the middle of the extremely Jewish area we grew up in and not a smidgen there either and he hasn’t heard of anything either

      I was reading on Tony Greenstein’s blog that a Jewish student in the USA was caught painting a swastika on her own door. Also if you read the Jewish press here you would think we were in the middle of a full on pogrom.

      The article is worth reading;

      http://azvsas.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/jewish-student-caught-painting-swastika.html?m=1

      • talknic
        January 17, 2015, 7:54 pm

        @ Bornajoo ” I’m still an anti semitic incident virgin”

        “self-hating Jew” is specific to Jews

      • Bornajoo
        January 17, 2015, 8:07 pm

        @Talknic
        “self-hating Jew” is specific to Jews”

        Yep, been one of those a long while already

      • mikeo
        January 20, 2015, 9:36 am

        From the perspective of a London resident (I live half a mile from Stamford Hill which is an orthodox area) the claims that anti-semitism in the UK is as bad as the 1930’s seem nonsensical.

        Whether they are down to a genuine disconnect from reality (and if the majority of Jewish people responding to these surveys read the Jewish Chronicle this might be the case as it is the most insular, self-pitying publication it’s possible to imagine) or a more cynical exploitation of the current circumstances – I can’t decide.

        I think a lot of these claims originate in a coordinated Hasbara offensive to promulgate the idea that the UK (and other EU countries) are not safe for Jews and Muslims are “taking over” Europe. These are designed more for consumption outside the EU (the types who watch Fox and believe that Birmingham is completely Muslim) as no one who lives in the UK would recognise the anti-semitic climate that these claims assert is prevalent.

        I can’t help feeling that these efforts are counter-productive in the long run. These claims of a widespread climate of anti-semitism strike many as a case of: “The boy who cried wolf” hence ever decreasing sympathy for the claims themselves, and the creation of a climate where many feel emboldened to refute them despite the inevitable attendant accusations of anti-semitism…

      • Bornajoo
        January 20, 2015, 5:25 pm

        @Mikeo
        I completely agree with you.
        Sometimes I think that they just can’t function unless they really, really believe that everyone hates them and they are in constant danger. It seems to be more of a need than a reality
        (half a mile from Stamford Hill must be either Tottenham, Stoke Newington, Clapton or Manor house… I think I’ve covered all 4 directions)

  11. seafoid
    January 17, 2015, 2:39 am

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.637572

    “Veteran CNN anchor Jim Clancy stepped down on Friday, one week after a series of Twitter posts in which he mocked pro-Israel tweeters on a thread discussing the Charlie Hebdo massacre.
    Neither CNN nor Jim Clancy gave a reason for his departure, which was reported by AdWeek. Clancy had worked at CNN for 34 years. “

    • Kay24
      January 17, 2015, 3:10 am

      As expected, they accuse others of not being able to accept free speech, but they are unable to take it either. This was not anti-semitic, although I would not put it pass them to try that line, but it seems anyone who criticizes Israel must be silenced and made into a pariah, just like Helen Thomas was. The ugly personal attacks will now commence, and Jim Clancy, a respectable veteran of CNN has been made into an example for those who just might go over the zionist line. It is so ironic that in the land of democracy and free speech part of the constitution, free speech is okay until it is about Israel/Jews/Netanyahu. Then oye vey they should shut up and lose their jobs. I wish there were courageous journalists who would be honest about this unbelievable situation in the US, when honesty about Israel will result in Jewish lobbies demanding the zionist media, shut free speech up.

      Rick Sanchez was also another victim who felt the wrath of Israeli agents who operate here.

    • Walid
      January 17, 2015, 7:55 am

      I was sure this would happen to Clancy. He was my favourite at CNN because he never sided with anybody so when he put his foot down on this issue with the tweets, I knew that was the end of his career at CNN.

      Same thing had happened to Octavia Nasser, CNN’s senior Arabic editor also after over 20 years of loyal service, for no other reason than having posted on her FB page, “May he rest in peace” when Cheikh Fadlallah diedin July 2010. At one time, Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Hasan Fadlallah was the spiritual head of Hizbullah but at the time of his death, he was no longer involved there and had been championing women’s rights. The first bomb that Israel dropped on Beirut in 2006 was on the Ayatollah’s compound. It was in that spirit of womens’ rights that Octavia Nasser had written her R.I.P but in spite of her apology, CNN went ahead and fired her.

  12. bryan
    January 17, 2015, 5:21 am

    Surely there is nothing for Israel to fear in any ICC proceedings – it has the most moral army in the world and scrupulously investigates the few mistakes that its armed forces occasionally and inevitably make. But Hamas with its unprovoked terror attacks and its terror tunnels targeting Israeli kindergartens and the protection provided to it by the PA should be deeply worried. If that narrative is anything like correct then surely Israel should be welcoming ICC investigation with a completely clear conscience. I cannot believe that it is just a fear that any loss of total autonomy, any reference to third-party organisations would be an existential threat, since much larger and wealthier European states have happily conceded some of their autonomy to European institutions like the European Court of Justice, in the interests of regional harmony, good-neighborliness and membership of an international community.

    • Taxi
      January 17, 2015, 11:58 am

      Actually it has a lot to fear. Its enemies are getting better armed, as Nasrallah in his 3 hour interview two days ago clarified, plus Obama is fully intent on making good with Iran and not going to war there, AND the israelis are also facing their biggest, darkest PR disaster since isreal’s inception: being named as war criminals and genocide generals at the ICC.

      And I think we too have something to fear with israel’s cornering: the Sampson Option.

      That may very well be the first shot that is fired.

      • American
        January 18, 2015, 12:46 pm

        ”’ And I think we too have something to fear with israel’s cornering: the Sampson Option.
        That may very well be the first shot that is fired””……Taxi
        >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

        They will attempt to use it as blackmail first– as they have always done.
        All the zio media would be broadcasting scary 911 background music or the ‘Jaws’ theme music and showing space images of the Isr nuke silo doors sliding open…be very afraid world..the God of Zionistas is going to smite you for not capitulating to the Chosen.

        If the blackmail doesnt work then who knows?……I sort of wish Isr would try it and get their bluff called or so we could find out just how crazy they are.

      • Kay24
        January 18, 2015, 9:03 pm

        Indeed they have much to fear Taxi. They are breaking international laws and has brought the world’s condemnation for their massacres and land theft, all documented by international agencies, even within it’s nation. I hope they get their just desserts sooner than later.

      • Taxi
        January 19, 2015, 1:19 am

        American,

        A smart analyst I know said: “When israel starts making public statements like ‘we are a nuclear country and will not accept being challenged’, like North Korea did, or make any public mention of the words ‘our nukes’, then we will know that they are really crazy and the whole world must work to bankrupt and stop them.

        He thinks they will in the near future start using language like that because they’re now completely surrounded by pitfalls and the circle just gets tighter and tighter around them, despite the fact that the mainstream media keeps saying that everything is hunky dory in israel.

  13. NickJOCW
    January 17, 2015, 7:49 am

    Abbas proceeds step by careful step. Meanwhile in the shadow of the patently illogical rejection of the last application to the UN, and Abbas’ current preparation of another, the US, EU, UN and Russia are driven to hold a conference on Israel/Palestine later this month http://www.timesofisrael.com/us-un-eu-russia-to-meet-on-mideast-in-late-january/. For some time I have sensed that Obama is seeking to make the whole thing more an international issue, release sole hold on it. The US is less dependent now on oil imports, Saudi Arabia is heading for a cliff, and many other Persian Gulf states are in the kind of turmoil that cannot simply be rolled back however aggressive their regimes. Day by day Israel offends more of the world arousing askance even from those with no particular interest in Palestine. Impressions are cumulative, babies freezing to death in Gaza…Netanyahu’s loutish behaviour before the world’s leaders and cameras at the otherwise solemn occasion in Paris. One begins to have a real sense the Zionist days are numbered, precisely what Khomeini predicted when he arrived in Tehran from Paris, “this regime occupying Quds must vanish from the page of time”. One of the most bizarre aspects of this is Netanyahu et al attempting to promote antisemitism in an attempt to justify their actions.

    • talknic
      January 17, 2015, 5:35 pm

      @ NickJOCW ” One begins to have a real sense the Zionist days are numbered, precisely what Khomeini predicted when he arrived in Tehran from Paris, “this regime occupying Quds must vanish from the page of time”.

      Eerily similar to “Israel must end the prolonged occupation of Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem” http://wp.me/pDB7k-W8

  14. Boomer
    January 17, 2015, 8:49 am

    I have no idea what will happen with the ICC, but it seems to be the best hope left for the Palestinians. At +972, Lilach Ben David writes “Losing my faith in humanity: Six years since ‘Operation Cast Lead’:

    “During Cast Lead I lost much of my faith in human kind, in Israeli society, in the Left and in the hope that one day things will be better here. My ability to love and believe in the goodness of others was damaged.” http://972mag.com/the-war-that-broke-me-six-years-since-operation-cast-lead/101450/

    For me, that was when I lost my hope that Mr. Obama would be different. His campaign rhetoric seemed to promise that. But after he was elected, even before he took office, he declined to call for an end to the killing, or to America’s support for it.

  15. CigarGod
    January 17, 2015, 9:14 am

    Finally, after so many decades…we will see the “notebooks”.
    Which Palestinian coined the phrase: “Everything is written in our notebooks”?

    Hopefully…it will bury the corrupt ideology of zionism…and sever it from their partners in the west.

    And…i personally want them to dust off the glass booths used in Nueremberg…

    • Taxi
      January 17, 2015, 12:32 pm

      “Which Palestinian coined the phrase: “Everything is written in our notebooks”?”

      It may very well have been Arafat who was known for writing everything down in pocket-size notebooks. He never stopped scribbling in them little notebooks, I’ve been told by people who knew him personally for decades.

      Pre-internet, most of the world scribbled in notebooks.

      • CigarGod
        January 17, 2015, 8:54 pm

        Thanks. I hope he had many apostles and followers who did the same. I dream of the day a hundred people walk into court carrying big boxes overflowing with the stories of the victims.

  16. CigarGod
    January 17, 2015, 9:49 am

    Edit function just disappeared.

  17. Vera Gottlieb
    January 17, 2015, 12:10 pm

    How many more Palestinians/Gazans have to perish before israel is finally brought to justice?

  18. talknic
    January 17, 2015, 10:33 pm

    “Prosor slammed the Palestinian’s last foray at the Security Council in particular, because “It didn’t address Israel’s long-term security needs. It didn’t demand an end to Palestinian terrorism. And it didn’t recognize Israel as the nation state of the Jewish people.”

    Prosor is an idiot. We can all read the draft. A peace treaty addresses a neighbor’s security needs (including by it’s very nature an end to terrorism).

    Israel has no legal right to claim non-Israeli territory/land for Israeli security needs and it certainly cannot claim non-Israeli territory that has been illegally settled by Israeli civilians is for security needs.

    No other state in the world has ever recognized Israel other than by its official name “the State of Israel” and;
    there is no legal obligation on the Palestinians or any other entity or state to recognize any other entity or state. There are numerous states in the UN who do not recognize other states in the UN.

    • talknic
      January 18, 2015, 9:30 pm

      ” Tell the Palestinians that the claim of return is a nonstarter …” Prosor said

      The man is stupid. Only Arab Israelis have a RoR to Israel as it was proclaimed in order to be recognized http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/israel/large/documents/newPDF/49.pdf

      On return they’d be Arab ISRAELIS!

      How can any one support a state that denies RoR for it’s own citizens?

      Even if Israel agreed to limited RoR based on a peace treaty with Palestine, what would it mean what to these ISRAELIS if;
      A) Palestine broke the treaty? Would they suddenly become Palestinians? Or alternatively;
      B) if Israel broke the peace treaty, would they suddenly become Palestinians?

      • Whizdom
        January 19, 2015, 7:14 pm

        Someone tell Prosor that the Right of Return of refugees of conflict to their home is a human right, enshrined in law. Any other position is a non starter.

      • talknic
        January 27, 2015, 1:09 am

        @ Whizdom
        “Someone tell Prosor that the Right of Return of refugees of conflict to their home is a human right, enshrined in law”

        Someone could “tell”, but Prosor and company don’t do listening

  19. American
    January 19, 2015, 4:16 pm

    Interesting how so many people involved in investigations turn up dead.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/19/argentinian-prosecutor-buenos-aires-bomb-alberto-nisman-iran

    ”Argentina prosecutor who claimed cover-up over 1994 blast found dead
    Alberto Nisman had accused President Fernández of offering to cover up suspected Iranian involvement in Jewish centre bombing that killed 85

    Monday 19 January 2015 10.01 EST

    An Argentinian prosecutor who accused President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner of orchestrating a cover-up in the investigation of Iran over the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community centre has been found dead in his apartment.

    Alberto Nisman, who had been looking into the blast at the AMIA Jewish community centre in Buenos Aires that killed 85 people, claimed last week that Fernández had conducted secret negotiations with Iran through non-diplomatic channels, offering to cover up the suspected involvement of Iranian officials so Argentina could start swapping grain for much-needed oil from Iran.

    Nisman was found dead late on Sunday night in the bathroom of his apartment on the 13th floor of the luxury Le Parc tower complex in the expensive Puerto Madero neighbourhood of Buenos Aires. The Argentinian security ministry said a .22 calibre handgun and a shell casing were found next to his body.

    The ministry said Nisman’s security guards had alerted his mother on Sunday afternoon that he was not answering his front door or phone, and the Sunday papers were still on his doorstep.

    “In the coming days we will determine the cause of death with an autopsy,” prosecutor Viviana Fein told journalists gathered at the scene in the early hours. “I ask for seriousness, I ask for prudence.”

    Nisman presented a 300-page document in court last Wednesday, based on phone wiretaps that he claimed showed close aides of the president involved in secret negotiations with Iran to withdraw Interpol arrest warrants for the suspects as a step towards normalising bilateral relations.

    The judge handling the case of the 1994 bombing criticised Nisman late last week for taking it upon himself to “initiate an investigation without judicial control” and said his evidence was flawed.

    The Argentinian cabinet chief, Jorge Capitanich, had said Nisman’s allegations were “crazy, absurd, illogical, irrational, ridiculous, unconstitutional”.

    Nisman feared that the government would unearth salacious rumours against him and told the press last week: “I have told my 15-year-old daughter to be prepared to hear terrible things about her father.”

    Patricia Bullrich, of the opposition PRO party, said Nisman told her on Saturday that he had received death threats. She also told television channel TN that members of parliament would meet on Monday morning to discuss the situation.

    Argentina’s courts have accused Iran of sponsoring the 1994 bombing, a charge the Islamic republic denies.

    In 2013, Fernández tried to form a truth commission with Iran to jointly investigate the attack. She said at the time that the pact would reactivate the inquiry, but Israeli and Jewish groups said the move threatened to derail criminal prosecution of the case.

    The truth commission pact was later struck down by an Argentinian court.”

Leave a Reply