Ari Shavit pimps AIPAC in Scarsdale

US Politics
on 81 Comments

Priscilla Read of Westchester Jewish Voice for Peace sent out the following report yesterday by email to colleagues, saying it was an individual response to an event. Her title was: “In the Belly of the Beast: Report on the February 5th event at Westchester Reform Temple in Scarsdale.” She allowed us to republish.

The author of My Promised Land, Ari Shavit is a darling of liberal Zionists. Tom Friedman adores his book, David Remnick championed it at 92d Street Y, St. Louis Reform rabbi Susan Talve has promoted it. Both Jerome Slater and Nathan Thrall have pointed out how rightwing Shavit’s views actually are.

AIPAC is the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. The event was billed as “Westchester Reform Temple and The American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) cordially invite you to an evening with Ari Shavit.” It included a private reception by invitation only.

Priscilla Read:

Thinking that the evening at Westchester Reform Temple on February 5 would be focused on a discussion of Ari Shavit’s book, My Promised Land: The Triumph and Tragedy of Israel (see New Yorker excerpt), I went and encouraged others to attend. For me, Shavit’s text was profoundly frustrating. It depicts in grim detail the expulsion of Palestinians that preceded and followed the establishment of the State of Israel; and then it justifies conquest and dispossession – the tragedy – as the only way to achieve what the author considers the moral triumph of Israel’s survival and success. I went to Scarsdale expecting something like the lecture series at Temple Israel in New Rochelle that has presented a variety of perspectives on Israel and Palestine, including viewpoints distinctly sympathetic to the Palestinians, that help Westchester residents break through the fog of pro-Israel propaganda that dominates American media. JVPers and kindred spirits attend with the goal of making sure Palestinian rights get attention. It was my hope that on February 5 some of us might, through our questions, raise some doubts in the audience about whether ethnic cleansing can be justified morally.

The fact that registration for the evening involved contacting an aipac.org email address raised my suspicions in advance; but I was unprepared for what I found at Westchester Reform Temple: an AIPAC-sponsored pep-rally with the cheerleaders alternately pumping up enthusiasm and issuing grim threats. The event was attended by a huge audience, the vast majority of whom appeared to be totally in sync with the organization’s objectives. In the tightly controlled environment, questions had to be submitted on index cards for triage. In collaboration with the rabbi and several (mainly young) AIPAC staff, Shavit rolled out a drum-beat of predictable themes. Before this evening I knew a fair amount about AIPAC – its politics and its power – all absorbed from a safe distance. February 5th, however, was total immersion.

Some 500 people packed the synagogue’s sanctuary, which had been transformed into a political convention center, with almost all vestiges of sacred space hidden behind giant AIPAC banners displaying Israeli and American flags. Speeches were apocalyptic in tone. The repeated motifs were the sacrosanct bonds between Israel and the United States, the need to cultivate bi-partisanship, the growing threats to Israel and to Jews across the globe, and the urgent pressure to confront the menace before it was too late. Attendees were enjoined to sign up for the national AIPAC gathering in early March that was predicted to assemble 15,000 and were offered a $100 discount on fees if they registered before leaving. Think, they were urged, of the power of thousands of pro-Israel lobbyists massing on Capitol Hill.

Shavit echoed and expanded traditional AIPAC arguments. He pointed to five threats facing Israel and Jews around the globe: terrorism and turmoil in the Arab World; rising anti-Semitism; the generation gap between older and younger Jews whose commitment to Israel is weakening (no reference to the human rights abuses that might explain why); Palestinian issues (given remarkably short-shrift); and Iran, Iran, Iran and the existential nuclear threat it poses to Israel and the rest of the globe (even though Israel is the Middle Eastern country that actually possesses nuclear weapons). When asked whether My Promised Land’s grim depiction of the expulsion of Palestinians was alienating Israel’s supporters, Shavit countered that his attachment to his homeland was a realistic love based on acceptance of unpleasant facts, that idealizing Israel was ultimately unwise, and that many young Jews had told him that his book had made them “proud of being Jewish.” My question about how he would reconcile his acceptance of Israel’s perpetration of ethnic cleansing with the ethical traditions of Judaism did not make the cut during the question period. Proclaiming his continued support for a two-state solution, Shavit spoke of his vision of an American/Sunni/Israeli/ Palestinian alliance of moderates against extremists and of “peace as a process” of building structures for co-existence that would take many years but should replace the failed peace process. His only reference to this summer’s assault on Gaza was the tedious refrain: the cause was Hamas’ targeting of Israeli citizens and hiding behind its own.

For me this event was a decidedly uncomfortable experience.

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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81 Responses

  1. Marshall
    February 8, 2015, 1:46 pm

    Minor quibble with this otherwise-excellent piece. From the narrative it looks like AIPAC is selling Ari Shavit’s narrative to desperate paying clients, not the other way around as in the headline.

    • Walid
      February 8, 2015, 2:51 pm

      What is it exactly that Priscilla expected from an event sponsored by AIPAC, the valorization of the Palestinians’ RoR? She went there knowing all too well that Shavit’s was promoting his concept of “Yes, we screwed the Palestinians and we’re proud to have done it,”

      You’re right, Marshal, AIPAC is doing the pimping.

      • Annie Robbins
        February 8, 2015, 3:30 pm

        You’re right, Marshal, AIPAC is doing the pimping.

        no, he’s the name that got them there. look at the other attractions coming up on the calendar for westchester reform temple scarsdale http://www.wrtemple.org/

        had aipac been the sole, or main attraction they wouldn’t have packed the place. aipac probably paid him to be there to sell their shtick.

        look at this event coming up http://wrtemple.mhsoftware.com/ViewItem.html?cal_item_id=1572&integral=0&from_social=1&dtwhen=2457104 this is the kind of event Priscilla was expecting. the invitation reads like aipac was a partial sponsor of a book event (just like we have book readings here co sponsored by jvp or mpj etc), which it wasn’t.

        shavit was pimping for aipac. when you walk in the door and aipac stuff is everywhere and they try to sell you tickets to the convention then that’s what it is.

      • Walid
        February 8, 2015, 3:43 pm

        Annie, on reading it again, I see that you are right, especially with $100 off special for signing up to a March convention. I’m curious to know the full cost of registering if the discount is $100.

      • Pixel
        February 9, 2015, 12:15 am

        @ Walid

        Policy Conference ’15
        Sunday Mar 1 – 3, 2015

        Registration for event $599

        http://www.policyconference.org

      • Walid
        February 9, 2015, 1:48 am

        Thanks, Pixel, picked the following from your link; Shavit is one of AIPAC’s speakers this year:

        “WHAT IS
        POLICY CONFERENCE?

        Tens of thousands of pro-Israel Americans gather in Washington, D.C. for the annual AIPAC Policy Conference to help shape U.S. policy and further strengthen the U.S.-Israel relationship.

        UNFORGETTABLE
        EXPERIENCE

        The AIPAC Policy Conference is the largest gathering of America’s pro-Israel community. Through demonstrations of groundbreaking Israeli innovations, keynote speeches by American and Israeli leaders, inspiring moments on stage, and intimate educational sessions, Policy Conference delegates experience the full scale of pro-Israel activism in three powerful days.

        The conference culminates with the opportunity for delegates to lobby their members of Congress in support of legislation that enhances the relationship between the United States and Israel.

        WHO ATTENDS
        THE CONFERENCE?

        More than 14,000 pro-Israel Americans
        More than two-thirds of Congress
        More than 2,300 students from more than 490 campuses
        260 Student Government Presidents from all 50 states
        More than 275 synagogue delegations
        AIPAC members from across the country

        Pixel, in which other super gathering other than in the Capitol do 2/3 of Congress people meet?

  2. Annie Robbins
    February 8, 2015, 1:57 pm

    Shavit spoke of his vision of an American/Sunni/Israeli/ Palestinian alliance of moderates against extremists

    what? who, what is “American/Sunni/Israeli/ Palestinian”

    how did sunni get stuck in there? i’ve never heard this phrasing before. is sunni code for palestinian-americans?

    sorry, of course i have other comments too but that just stuck way out.

    • Walid
      February 8, 2015, 2:32 pm

      No, Annie, it’s a code word for Sunni states Saudia, Jordan, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Turkey, Egypt and so on that are decidely pro-American and have consequently normalized relations in varrying degrees with Israel, that Shavit refers to as the “moderates”; his litany continues in the same sentence, … “against extremists and of “peace as a process” of building structures for co-existence that would take many years but should replace the failed peace process.”

      Whereas the good “moderate” guys are the Sunni states dancing to Israel’s tune, the bad “extremists” guys against peace as a 999-year peace process are the Shia states of Iran and Syria with Hizbullah in tow.

      American audiences have a weakness for buzz words and Shavit was toying with such an audience at the Westchester Reform Temple.

      • Annie Robbins
        February 8, 2015, 3:21 pm

        oh, thanks walid. that makes sense.

      • Stephen Shenfield
        February 8, 2015, 5:41 pm

        Why then didn’t he say “moderate Moslem”? Not all Sunnis are pro-American, are they? Al-Qaeda is Sunni. I expect he wanted to convey the impression of being knowledgeable about the Moslem world.

      • straightline
        February 9, 2015, 2:29 am

        This is the new meme “Sunni good, Shia bad”. George was only 30 years out!

        http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/joseph-puder/israel-and-the-arab-gulf-states-an-undeclared-alliance-2/

        On the other hand
        http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/02/05/al-qaeda-saudi-arabia-and-israel

        Who da thunk it?

        This whole situation smacks more of war as theatre (of the absurd). See my post on another thread about the UK report on its current involvement in Iraq.
        .

      • Walid
        February 9, 2015, 2:54 am

        “Not all Sunnis are pro-American, are they?’

        In the countries I mentioned, Stephen, most of the Sunni are, and elsewhere it depends mostly on whether or not they have been clobbered by the US such as in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. There are some minor exceptions among the Sunni like Hamas or al Qaeda, that you mentioned, for obvious reasons, that are branded simply as terrorists even by some other Sunni states. But even al Qaeda that is rooted in the mujahideen/Taliban began as pro-US and continued so for years while they were still useful. “Moderate Moslem” is a buzzword used by Americans and Israelis to describe those that are sympathetic to them. Shavit has to be knowledgeable about the Moslem world but was using the occasion to twist the knife into the Shia that as a rule are anti-Israel and by extension Anti-US. Look forward to his hate-filled speech at AIPAC

      • NickJOCW
        February 9, 2015, 9:05 am

        @Walid, I take mild issue with the notion that because the Shia are ‘as a rule anti-Israel’ they are ‘by extension Anti-US’. There is a lot of anti-US sentiment in the world and it is growing but I doubt much has its roots in US support for Israel. The US supports all sorts of unsavory regimes and practices, Israel is just another of them. The reason I raise this is that it smacks of the tendency insensibly to claim any negative event or action as anti-Semitic; the list is endless but WWII is the most distressing example (to me) and the Charlie Hebdo slaughter is freshest to mind. It reflects an arrogant, totally unsympathetic attitude of which Netanyahu is increasingly the caricature. The danger is people will begin to find it funny and then we are but a step away from Shylock. Anti-Israel and anti-American may well be passengers on the same bus but there is nothing else that unites them.

      • NickJOCW
        February 9, 2015, 9:53 am

        PS It’s already anti-Semitic to be anti-Israel. How long before it becomes anti-Semitic to be anti-US?

      • Mooser
        February 9, 2015, 10:46 am
      • Walid
        February 9, 2015, 11:20 am

        NickJOCW, the Shia that I said were combining the US and Israel for their hate are all located in the Middle East. These represent about 60% of the world’s total Shia population with most of the rest concentrated in India, Pakistan, Azerbaijan and Afghanistan and somewhat oblivious to what’s happening to the Palestinians.

        Ironically, it’s a given that if these Middle Eastern Shia states were to accept what Israel is doing to the Palestinians (somewhat as some Sunni states are are now doing), they would immdiately fall into the US’ good graces and first among them would be Iran that would be allowed to play in all the nuclear stuff to its heart’s desires. So it’s really all about Israel and not about the US.

        How many times has Syria gotten an offer of getting back its Golan in exchange of dropping the Palestinian issue and recognizing Israel?

      • NickJOCW
        February 9, 2015, 3:33 pm

        @Walid, Beware of false syllogism – that’s all.

        Israel puts me in mind of the unsinkable Titanic with Europe the ice flow breaking away from the US. I live in Spain; Southern Europeans are very unhappy about these Russian sanctions; farmers have had just about enough https://ruptly.tv/vod/view/20602/spain-see-sanction-hit-farmers-dump-rotting-fruit-in-anti-govt-demo

  3. Krauss
    February 8, 2015, 2:18 pm

    Annie, I think its code for Arab dictators we like, such as el-Sisi in Egpyt.

    • American
      February 9, 2015, 10:21 am

      NickJOCW February 9, 2015, 9:53 am PS

      It’s already anti-Semitic to be anti-Israel. How long before it becomes anti-Semitic to be anti-US? – >>>>>>>>>>

      Its anti semitic to be Pro America now.
      Also anti semitic to be anti Iran war.

      The only way anti semitism will end is to give Israel and the Zionist chosen everything they want and then for the rest of us to all kill ourselves.

      • Bornajoo
        February 9, 2015, 3:19 pm

        “The only way anti semitism will end is to give Israel and the Zionist chosen everything they want and then for the rest of us to all kill ourselves.”

        I think that’s an eerily accurate analysis of the situation American!

  4. Krauss
    February 8, 2015, 2:23 pm

    This is a somewhat sociological comment, but I think it says a few things about the Jewish upper middle classes. Per Wikipedia, here is Scarsdale:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Harwoodcourtscarsdale.jpg

    The demographics? 85% white, 12% Asian and something like 1.5% black with a smattering of the rest.
    Not exactly very representative of mainstream America. I’m sure the schools are nice, as well as living in what looks like an English cottage village in a country which is expected to have a majority non-white population in its public school system this year(and how many of them send their kids to private Jewish schools?).

    Larry Summers, in the Times’ latest article on Clinton, says that we must worry about inequality, “but avoid the politics of envy”.

    This is what passes for progressivism in the Jewish community these days. I’ve always maintained that the Clinton administration has a special place in the heart of the Jewish establishment. A position on Israel which is basically the same as Bush’s(give them what they want no matter how they act, and cover up for them afterwards too), and a milquetoast center-left, ubermoderate and pro-Wall St economic policy. After all, we are wealthy these days.

    The reason why most Jews are still Democrats is because you have Clinton Democrats who basically look after your wealth. Who are terrified of the real progressive left, who fear “the politics of envy”. You can’t get any further from the socialist pro-union bundists at the lower East Side a century ago.

    • Mooser
      February 8, 2015, 4:45 pm

      “I’ve always maintained that the Clinton administration has a special place in the heart of the Jewish establishment”

      We were so close to Presidential power back then! For a while, anyway.

  5. a blah chick
    February 8, 2015, 2:29 pm

    “An Evening with Avi Shavit” and NO mention of the life affirming act of sex in public toilets?

    Definitely a waste of time.

    • Marnie
      February 9, 2015, 12:03 am

      Ugh. When I see his face I think of his prose of awe and admiration for how sexy Israel is and sex in a public toilet. Shavit sounds like the soldier commenting about what great times he had among the laughter and the feces after a group of them had commandeered a Palestinian home. F’cking freak. And he was the honey trap for AIPAC? Gag me.

  6. eGuard
    February 8, 2015, 3:59 pm

    Wait wait. His book is titled My Promised Land: The Triumph and Tragedy of Israel. NYT hotlisted. Tom Friedman friends. “the darling of liberal Zionists”.

    What part of “Zionist” in “liberal Zionist” do you not understand? What non-disappointment did you think of? What would you expect were AIPAC not there? Peace?

  7. Mayhem
    February 8, 2015, 6:03 pm

    Political landscapes change and there is no reason a so-called ‘liberal Zionist’ should hold rigidly to a set of views. The fact that “Peace Now” (Shalom Achshav) fell into decline was because of disillusionment with a process lacking reciprocation (no partner for peace).
    With a sorry situation where moderate Palestinians are being persecuted in order to silence them, to be just lambasting Israel supporters amounts to gross hypocrisy, blindness and double standards.

    Priscilla Read obviously approached this meeting with Shavit with her Israel delegitimisation handbook by her side as she mused

    whether ethnic cleansing can be justified morally

    Pray tell what sort of a job of ethnic cleansing did Israel conduct if the territories that Israel now controls has as many Arabs living therein as Jews. This indicates that the very opposite of ethnic cleansing has taken place.

    Frankly Priscilla it seems like you went to the wrong meeting – perhaps you should contact your local chapter of Jewish Voices for Peace who will certainly be able to find a political environment that better suits your agenda of delegitimisation.

    Thinking people shift their opinions when political climates change. Whereas I once espoused dialog with pro-Palestinian groups I eventually learned that I was dealing with an intransigence and a fundamental unwillingness to accept Jewish sovereignty in any part of greater Palestine. Therein lies the true root of the conflict.

    • a blah chick
      February 8, 2015, 6:16 pm

      “I eventually learned that I was dealing with an intransigence and a fundamental unwillingness to accept Jewish sovereignty in any part of greater Palestine.”

      I hear ya man, refusing to accept your right to plop yourself down on any part of “Greater Palestine” and lord it over the natives.

      The nerve of some people!

    • eljay
      February 8, 2015, 7:33 pm

      >> Mayhemeee: Pray tell what sort of a job of ethnic cleansing did Israel conduct …

      Are you suggesting that Jewish and Israeli terror and military forces never caused any Palestinians to leave or prevented any Palestinians from rightfully returning to Partition-borders Israel?

      >> Whereas I once espoused dialog with pro-Palestinian groups I eventually learned that I was dealing with an intransigence and a fundamental unwillingness to accept Jewish sovereignty in any part of greater Palestine. Therein lies the true root of the conflict.

      Yes, the true root of the conflict is “Jewish sovereignty” – that is, Jewish supremacism in a supremacist “Jewish State”. No-one, not even the Palestinians, should be required to accept or submit to supremacist rule.

      Israeli sovereignty over Partition-borders Israel is a different matter.

    • talknic
      February 8, 2015, 7:39 pm

      @ Mayhem
      “Pray tell what sort of a job of ethnic cleansing did Israel conduct if the territories that Israel now controls has as many Arabs living therein as Jews. This indicates that the very opposite of ethnic cleansing has taken place.”

      More than half of Israel’s non-Jewish citizens were ethically cleansed. There are now only some 20% non-Jews in Israel.

      Using your criteria, the Nazis did a lousy job during the Holocaust because Israel is 80% Jews and there are now over 13 million Jews in the world

      “Whereas I once espoused dialog with pro-Palestinian groups I eventually learned that I was dealing with an intransigence and a fundamental unwillingness to accept Jewish sovereignty in any part of greater Palestine. Therein lies the true root of the conflict.”

      You’re full of bullsh*t! Abbas on behalf of the people of Palestine twice offered in front of the world at the United nations, to give Israel 78% of the Palestinians rightful territories for peace. It’s on the record http://pages.citebite.com/e9p5s8u2yhcd

      Israel replied by building more illegal settlements. It’s on the record https://www.google.com.au/search?q=more+illegal+settlements

      • Mayhem
        February 10, 2015, 4:04 am

        we agreed to establish the State of Palestine on only 22% of the territory of historical Palestine – on all the Palestinian Territory occupied by Israel in 1967

        @talknic your contribution is the true bullsh*t in this discussion. In your link to Abbas’s speech to the UN in 2011 he was quoting what Arafat had allegedly offered – nothing to do with Abbas. And of course we don’t hear about all the riders of that offer – the consequent breakout of the intifada showing the Palestinians offer came from the barrel of a gun, the demand that Israel return to 1967 borders that had proved indefensible, borders that would reward the Arabs for their aggression in 1967 and of course the infamous right of return.

        As for ethnic cleansing it is the Arab nations that actually inflicted ethnic cleansing on their Jewish inhabitants as a million Jews, who had inhabited Arab lands for more than a thousand years, were forced to flee from their homes.

        If you had only taken the trouble to go to the link in my post you would see why I can so clearly demonstrate that Israel has no partners with whom to make any kind of a deal, as the Palestinians have no moderate elements that can take the risk to honestly negotiate with Israel for fear of painful retribution from their own kind.

      • Bornajoo
        February 10, 2015, 5:09 pm

        @Mayhem
        “As for ethnic cleansing it is the Arab nations that actually inflicted ethnic cleansing on their Jewish inhabitants as a million Jews, who had inhabited Arab lands for more than a thousand years, were forced to flee from their homes.”

        What is it with you Zionists?? Why do you always give yourself supreme authority to speak on behalf of every other Jew from the distant past until the present from every corner of the planet? Just like Nuttyyahoo who “Speaks for Jews everywhere”.

        We’ve had this discussion before and I made it very clear to you then that my entire family and many friends of all those families WERE NOT FORCED TO FLEE from their homes, not from Iraq or Bahrain anyway

        Why do you think you can just make these generalised mythical statements? Please do not rewrite my family’s history and their direct and actual experiences with your hasbara bullshit.

        One example: Just the other day we went to see some family friends who were one of the very last Jewish families to leave Iraq. The father was a civil servant who worked for Saddam Hussein for nearly 40 years and they finally HAD to leave in 2002 before the illegal invasion and subsequent massacre of the Iraqi people.

        By the way they were given the chance to go to Israel but they (cleverly and wisely) refused and came to London. He told me that he NEVER EVER suffered any discrimination and everyone knew that he and all his fellow Jews were indeed Jews. He confirmed that the Jews had a good life in Iraq for hundreds of years. There were strict rules in place about religious discrimination against all religious minorities including Christians and Jews.

        He fully believes (just like all of the Iraqi Jews I have spoken with) that the situation deteriorated only when the Zionists were colonising Palestine and firmly believes it was the Zionists who set off those bombs in Baghdad in 1950-51. He also knows many Iraqi Jews who live in Ramat Gan today who are still trying to claim damages from the Israel government for the loss of all of their land, homes, money and possessions by forcing them to leave their homeland and go to be a second class Mizrahi slave for the mainly Ashkenazi Zionists. But the Israel government refuses to allow the cases to go to court because they want to use this fake myth that the the Jews were forcibly expelled or forced to leave. They were not.

        Sure there was going to be some issues from time to time. There is no such place as Shangri la and nobody had it great all of the time, not the Jews, not anyone. Here in London as recently as the 60’s and 70’s there were disgraceful violent attacks on Indian and Pakistani immigrants which was known as Paki-bashing by white skinhead nationalist thugs. You can always find outrageous incidents in every single country against various immigrants.

        There was ONE incident in Bahrain in 1947 during the so-called War of Independence in Palestine while my mother and her family were there. It was carried out by outsiders, nobody knew who they were and an old lady, a friend of my family died of shock. But it was their local Arab (Muslim) friends and neighbours that helped and saved them from that mob. They wrecked some Jewish property and burned the synagogue. But my family continued to live there until 1957 and they finally left for economic reasons. They had every opportunity to go to Israel but they chose not to and thank f**k they didn’t!

        Very similar things and much worse things happened to the Indian and Pakistani community in the UK (as just one example) but it calmed down and disappeared, just like in Bahrain. The entire Indian and Pakistani community did not leave. They stayed, they persevered and they flourished. But most importantly they didn’t have a bunch of Zionists making their lives unsafe and then telling them that the only safe place for them was Israel. Of course that ploy was going to accelerate their departure. It was a superb Zionist tactic and it worked like a dream.

        By the way, my first cousin works for the Bahrain government here in London and everyone knows he’s a Jew. His father also worked for the Bahrain government. Jews still run businesses in Bahrain where my family used to live. Jews, including Israelis have offices and businesses in Qatar too along with an unofficial embassy. Lots of business being done between the two.

        What we should be speaking about is how the Zionists could have saved hundreds of thousands of Jews from perishing in Europe but instead chose not to allocate any resources to helping any of those Jews because they felt that their suffering and extermination would greatly help the Zionist cause. And they were right. That is what Zionism is all about, using other Jews to get what they want and then trying to drag us all into their sick conspiracy.

        From Shabtai Teveth’s (official biographer of Ben Gurion) “Ben Gurion and The Holocaust” (page 842)

        “‘The genocide of Europe’s Jews ‘prompted no change in the position of the Jewish leadership in the United States… (Ben-Gurion) concentrated all his efforts on the [Zionist] program, not to the tragedy of European Jewry”

        So when you say that the Jews were ethnically cleansed from those Arab countries then you are right that they were, but by the Zionists who carried out false flag attacks and also colluded with those Arab leaders at that time.

        My mother said the other day that “The Zionists made us homeless” because she still insists that the Jews had a great life in Iraq and Bahrain

        Oh and Mayhem, you STILL haven’t answered my question about whether or not you agree with Robert in Israel’s comments? Surely you must have an opinion, I mean him being a fellow Zionist an’all? Let me remind you; he said that the Jewish Zionists once they were strong enough, liberated THEIR land after 2000 years which was always rightfully theirs. They finally got strong enough to kick out the invaders and take it back. That’s it in a nutshell. Nothing very complicated there. Well? Agree or not? How about the other Zionists? Someone? Anyone?

      • just
        February 10, 2015, 5:41 pm

        Bornajoo~ great posts here!

        Thank you so, so much~ your latest @ 5: 09 pm just took my breath away.

      • Bornajoo
        February 10, 2015, 6:09 pm

        Just,
        Sometimes I think there is real smoke coming out of my ears. The residue of burning anger.

        Thank you

      • Mooser
        February 10, 2015, 8:05 pm

        Everyone does understand that “Mayhem’s” credibility will not be in any way damaged by peeing on himself and running away from “Bornajoo”! He will step right back in, able to speak for all of the Jews any time Netanyahoo isn’t using that authority.
        What a piece of work that Mayhem is.

      • Walid
        February 11, 2015, 1:40 am

        Bornajoo, about Bahrainis, there was also Hoda Ezra Nonoo, the Bahraini Jewish ambassador to the UK and about those imbeciles that keep harping on the evicted Jews from Arab countries, a simple review of dates of departure of Jews from each country would easily show that the 1948 war with the Zionists was not at the root of the exodus.

        First is Lebanon where the Jewish population kept inctreasing after the 48 war and continued so until the mid 60s (which makes it 15 years after 1948) and only started decreasing in the early 70s because of the civil war, along with other Lebanese that left for economic reasons. When Israel invaded Beirut in 1982, there were still a few thousands left (which makes it 34 years after the 48 war), Jews were refusing to leave for Israel until the Israeli navy shelled the Magen Avragam Synagogue, which spooked most into leaving.

        Another was Tunisia where at its independence from France in 1956 ( that’s 8 years after the 48 war), there were 100,000 Jews in the country that were offered either an Israeli citizenship or a French one. A third decided to remain in Tunisia while a third opted to emigrate to France and the other third to Israel. After the 1967 war (that makes it 19 years after the 48 war) about 7,000 Jews quit Tunisia but not to go to Israel but to France.

        In Algeria in 1962 (which makes it 14 years after the 48 war) only 40,000 Jews remained while over 100,000 moved to France. Over the years after 1962, about 25,000 Jews went to Israel

        In Egypt, where Jews were actually expelled in different waves, these came about each time Israel did something which hurt Egypt. The first big wave was in 1954 (6 years after the 48 war) after the Lavon black flag adffair, in 56 after Israel’s invasion of Suez, in 67 after Israel’s attack on Egypt.

        You already mentioned Iraq with the black flag bombings and these happened in the 3rd and 4th year after the 48 war.

        Just going by these dates, it becomes obvious that other than for Egypt, there were no actual expulsions of Jews,

      • Bornajoo
        February 11, 2015, 3:47 am

        Thanks Walid

        I think Nonoo is the culture minister? My cousin knows her.

        Here is the song that the Iraqis used to sing after they arrived in israel. They sung it for decades:

        “What did you do, Bengurion?
        You smuggled in all of us!
        Because of the past, we waived our citizenship
        And came to Israel.
        Would that we had come riding on a donkey and we
        Hadn’t arrived here yet!
        Woe, what a black hour it was!
        To hell with the plane that brought us here”

        I think that says it all.

      • Walid
        February 11, 2015, 6:09 am

        It’s not enough that Israelis have stolen or destroyed much of the Palestinians’ heritage, these thieves are now stealing some of Iraq’s.

        Bornajoo, because of your proud Iraqi roots, you’d be interested in the following story; It concerns the theft by Israel of one of Iraq’s very ancient copies of the Torah. The article contains a photo of Lieberman holding the stolen Iraqi Torah on January 22nd. The article also describes how the US looted Iraq’s 33 museums and shipped everything back to the US in just about the same way the Nazis looted European art; from al-Akhbar that describes how the US, the Kurds and Jordan participated in Israel’s heist:

        “The Great Israeli Theft of Iraqi Jewish Heritage

        (Photo pf Avigdor Lieberman holding the stolen Iraqi Torah on Jan 22, 2015)

        By: Alaa al-Lami
        Published Tuesday, February 3, 2015

        Recently, Israel stole one of the symbols of Iraqi Jewish heritage, a rare ancient copy of the Torah. The incident went smoothly and quietly, with blatant collusion between Israel, the United States, the Kurdish Regional Government in Iraq, and the Jordanian authorities, amid suspicious silence from the Iraqi federal authorities and the Iraqi cultural scene, save for a few objections.

        ”The claim about the Torah scroll having been sent to the United States for restoration is a lie. The scroll was revealed to not have travelled to the United States, but to the Israeli embassy in Amman” -Akil al-AzrakiThe Torah manuscript in question, known as the Iraqi Old Testament Scroll, was written using concentrated pomegranate juice on deer-skin parchments. The manuscript was seized by US forces, among other Iraqi antiquities, which survived the systematic destruction by the illegal Anglo-American invasion and occupation.
        At the time, it was said that many Iraqi archaeological treasures and huge amounts of documents from the Iraqi state’s secret archives were transferred to Israel, ostensibly for restoration and preservation. In truth, however, this was the deliberate looting of Iraqi heritage.

        At a ceremony held at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Israeli authorities publicly displayed that major Iraqi artifact, thus admitting that they had pirated part of Iraq’s heritage. The Israeli Foreign Minister explicitly admitted that the manuscript had been obtained from Kurdistan via Baghdad and Amman, and that it is now being used in daily prayer in the Foreign Ministry synagogue.

        According to The Times of Israel, “After it was repaired and prepared for ritual use by a Jerusalem-based scribe, the scroll was placed in a case from Aleppo, Syria and brought over to the ministry.” Avigdor Lieberman, the extremist foreign minister of Israel, did not let the occasion go without repeating old Zionist cliches, saying that “the scroll’s journey from Kurdistan to Baghdad to Amman to Jerusalem was reminiscent of the destiny of the Jewish nation.”

        Some like Iraqi writer Akil al-Azraki, one of the rare voices who commented on the affair, believe that the Israeli announcement exposed the lies of the Iraqi government. The Iraqi government had claimed the manuscript was sent along with other Iraqi artifacts to the United States for restoration….

        For full article:
        http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/23582

      • just
        February 11, 2015, 8:34 am

        Walid~ I read about the theft of the Torah by Israel, and it made me sick. I also recall the looting of the antiquities by the US troops as well as the massive destruction of the ancient glories of Iraq by the bombardment, etc. It was/is a desecration/profound disrespect of a proud culture and history that predates these new states that are doing the looting by millenia. Thanks for bringing attention to it again.

        So few Americans have a clue about the history of the ME/NA. I still hear stupid statements like “THOSE people over there have been fighting forever anyway”. But “American Sniper” is supposed to be the top seller of 2014… just goes to show, eh?

        Somehow folks still think that the US are the good guys who “liberated” both Iraq and Afghanistan!!! Utter bs.

        Anyway, thanks for the article. This moving discussion among you, Bornajoo and Bintbiba is very much appreciated.

      • seafoid
        February 11, 2015, 9:16 am

        Bornajoo

        the loss of culture of all those Iraqi Jews who swapped rootedness in Iraq for life in development towns in Israel is heartbreaking.

        Zionism is such a waste of time.

      • Mooser
        February 12, 2015, 6:18 pm

        Wonderful to hear about that episode (the episode is sad, but it’s wonderful to discuss it here) in Zionism concerning the Jews in the Mid-East area and the tactics Israel used to get them, from those with personal experience and direct knowledge.
        Thanks Bornajoo and Walid.

    • American
      February 8, 2015, 8:57 pm

      ” I eventually learned that I was dealing with an intransigence and a fundamental unwillingness to accept Jewish sovereignty in any part of greater Palestine —— Mayhem

      Could I interest you in forgetting about asserting your Jewish sovereignty over Palestine and directing your violence toward and doubling up on your efforts to dominate the US instead?

      • bintbiba
        February 11, 2015, 5:30 am

        Bornajoo & Walid….
        I came very late to your posts last night. What can I say , I keep on learning stuff as I amble along this narrow path of life.
        I was at school in Beirut in ’48, ’49 etc… my classmate next to me was a beautiful girl called Arlette Lubliner. She was jewish, lived near to where we lived
        ..and we were friends. It was later in ’50 or ’51 that she never turned up in class. We were told that her family had left the country. I always wondered where did she end up. And there were no troubles at the time in Lebanon.

        I agree with ‘just’ …Your post , Bornajoo is breathtaking.!! Thank you.

      • Walid
        February 11, 2015, 6:46 am

        Bintbiba, maybe Jews don’t mean much to the younger Lebanese generation, but for those older ones, the memories are very affectionate, like yours of Arlette. For those in between these 2 age groups, they have memories of their parents speaking fondly of their Jewish acquaintances. The Zionists coming on the scene spoiled everything.

  8. Mooser
    February 8, 2015, 6:53 pm

    “Whereas I once espoused dialog with pro-Palestinian groups I eventually learned that I was dealing with an intransigence and a fundamental unwillingness to accept Jewish sovereignty in any part of greater Palestine.”

    Gee, just ungrateful, isn’t it, and especially after you showed them just how nice Zionists can be?
    Who the hell are you trying to kid? Do you really think insulting everybody’s intelligence and outraging their morals, (not to mention being so askew with the facts) is the way to prevail?

    Excuse, but did you just claim “Jewish sovereignty” in “greater Palestine”? Oh God, you are a joke. A Jewish joke, and I love them, but I never dreamed they get like this. Naturally you don’t think you’ll have to talk to the UN or anybody else, for that matter, to bring that “greater Palestine” thing under “Jewish sovereignty”.

    • Mayhem
      February 9, 2015, 7:22 am

      @mooser, do you have amnesia? or did you just have a knee jerk reaction?
      Strashen net de genz
      Israel got its 22% slice of Greater Palestine with UN blessing in 1947. From that point Israel’s Arab neighbours mustered all their forces to annihilate the Jewish upstarts.

      • Kris
        February 9, 2015, 12:22 pm

        @Mayhem, maybe you are trying to educate yourself online through google translations, and that’s why you are having a hard time with understanding the content?

        from http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/

        “For centuries there was no such (Arab/Jewish) conflict. In the 19th century the land of Palestine was inhabited by a multicultural population – approximately 86 percent Muslim, 10 percent Christian, and 4 percent Jewish – living in peace.[1]

        “In the late 1800s a group in Europe decided to colonize this land. Known as Zionists, they represented an extremist minority of the Jewish population. Their goal was to create a Jewish homeland, and they considered locations in Africa and the Americas, before settling on Palestine.[2]

        “At first, this immigration created no problems. However, as more and more Zionists immigrated to Palestine – many with the express wish of taking over the land for a Jewish state – the indigenous population became increasingly alarmed. Eventually, fighting broke out, with escalating waves of violence. Hitler’s rise to power, combined with Zionist activities to sabotage efforts to place Jewish refugees in western countries[3], led to increased Jewish immigration to Palestine, and conflict grew.

        “Finally, in 1947 the United Nations decided to intervene. However, rather than adhering to the principle of “self-determination of peoples,” in which the people themselves create their own state and system of government, the UN chose to revert to the medieval strategy whereby an outside power divides up other people’s land.

        “Under considerable Zionist pressure, the UN recommended giving away 55% of Palestine to a Jewish state – despite the fact that this group represented only about 30% of the total population, and owned under 7% of the land.

        “While it is widely reported that the resulting war eventually included five Arab armies, less well known is the fact that throughout this war Zionist forces outnumbered all Arab and Palestinian combatants combined – often by a factor of two to three. Moreover, Arab armies did not invade Israel – virtually all battles were fought on land that was to have been the Palestinian state.

        “Finally, it is significant to note that Arab armies entered the conflict only after Zionist forces had committed 16 massacres, including the grisly massacre of over 100 men, women, and children at Deir Yassin. Future Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, head of one of the Jewish terrorist groups, described this as “splendid,” and stated: “As in Deir Yassin, so everywhere, we will attack and smite the enemy. God, God, Thou has chosen us for conquest.” Zionist forces committed 33 massacres altogether.[4]

        “By the end of the war, Israel had conquered 78 percent of Palestine; three-quarters of a million Palestinians had been made refugees; over 500 towns and villages had been obliterated; and a new map was drawn up, in which every city, river and hillock received a new, Hebrew name, as all vestiges of the Palestinian culture were to be erased. For decades Israel denied the existence of this population, former Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir once saying: “There were no such thing as Palestinians.”[5]

      • Mooser
        February 9, 2015, 5:08 pm

        “Israel got its 22% slice of Greater Palestine with UN blessing in 1947.”

        Okay, so we’ll just by-pass what they did to get that, and ask and why couldn’t they stay inside it, and provide security for their citizens, instead of operating and colonizing out side of their own declared boundaries ever since then? Something doesn’t add up, you silly goose.

        Funny, one would think you understood the absolute gender-equality of sauce.

      • just
        February 9, 2015, 5:22 pm

        Nice.

      • Mayhem
        February 9, 2015, 6:49 pm

        @Kris, you have summarised the Palestinian narrative very nicely.

        As in any logical argument if there is a fundamental fallacy elicited at one point the whole line of argument collapses in a heap.

        Zionists immigrated to Palestine – many with the express wish of taking over the land for a Jewish state – the indigenous population became increasingly alarmed

        This argument is superficially true but when you examine why the ‘ indigenous population became increasingly alarmed’ you will discover that this is so because of a fundamental xenophobia and judeophobia that eventually grew into full blooded anti-semitism in the Christian tradition.

        Now the site that Kris has referenced opens up with the infamous set of maps that are a complete distortion of the facts so as soon as I see them being exploited as a propaganda tool I know that I am not talking to someone who can discuss the conflict in dispassionate, rational terms – rather the exponent is going to be infused with prejudice and lies that are used to delegitimize Israel.

        Sorry Kris.

      • talknic
        February 9, 2015, 10:06 pm

        Mayhem
        “Israel got its 22% slice of Greater Palestine with UN blessing in 1947. From that point Israel’s Arab neighbours mustered all their forces to annihilate the Jewish upstarts”

        Can’t find the phrase “Greater Palestine” in the UN blessing in 1947. Can’t find any UNSC resolutions against any Arab State for having invaded Israel. Even the Israeli Govt says the Arab states invaded “Palestine” http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/MFADocuments/Yearbook1/Pages/5%20Arab%20League%20declaration%20on%20the%20invasion%20of%20Pales.aspx

      • Kay24
        February 9, 2015, 11:46 pm

        Good question/s Talknic, why indeed didn’t they just stay put inside the territory they were given, instead of going over the limit, and add to that steal the water and other resources?
        They make all the petty excuses they can come up with, to keep doing so. If they had done the decent thing and not provoked the neighborhood by sticking to what was (stupidly) given to them, things would have been different.

        You have written a very interesting description of yourself. I enjoyed reading that.

      • RoHa
        February 10, 2015, 2:30 am

        “This argument is superficially true but when you examine why the ‘ indigenous population became increasingly alarmed’ you will discover that this is so because of a fundamental xenophobia and judeophobia that eventually grew into full blooded anti-semitism in the Christian tradition.”

        So all the loudly proclaimed plans of the Zionists to take over the country and expel or subjugate the indigenous population were ignored?

        The Zionists active discrimination against the indigenous population had no effect on the attitudes of the indigenous population?

        Nope. None of that made any difference.

        Even though Zionists drove indigenous farmers off the land they farmed, the indigenous population would have still loved the Zionists, except for that old fundamental xenophobia and judeophobia.

        And the evidence for this is overwhelming, isn’t it?

      • Mooser
        February 10, 2015, 10:56 am

        “Sorry Kris.”

        You know, “Mayhem”, when we read your little epistles (and I’m sure your epistle is) I can certainly understand, as can all Mondo readers, just how downright awful Palestinians must be not to welcome folks like you and your ilk to Palestine!
        And look, now you are “settling” in at Mondo.
        But please don’t stop commenting “Mayhem”, I personally think you are helping a lot of people understand more about Zionism and Zionists.

        And gosh, we really appreciate you Zionists not ganging up on us! I just don’t know how we could possibly do anything about the overwhelming strength of say, Mayhem, Yonah, Hophmi and Jons all commenting on the same subject!

      • Mooser
        February 10, 2015, 8:09 pm

        “This argument is superficially true but when you examine why the ‘ indigenous population became increasingly alarmed’ you will discover that this is so because of a fundamental xenophobia and judeophobia that eventually grew into full blooded anti-semitism in the Christian tradition”

        “full blooded anti-semitism in the Christian tradition”

        Mayhem, you better work on that birth-rate, if you plan to fight the whole world. You got a sister? Well, get breeding. Don’t take a chance on out-marriage, some people aren’t honest.

    • bintbiba
      February 11, 2015, 7:25 am

      Walid,
      Even before Beirut, as I was growing up in Jerusalem where I was born… School was the nuns (!!)
      and we were a whole mixed bunch of Palestinian Arabs , Palestinian Jews , British (Civil servant families )and Polish, German, Austrian, Hungarian Blue eyed blonde Jewish girls. We all played together ,learned together and although the troubles were brewing , at school we were friends. I was 12 in May ’48….when all hell broke loose and the schools closed down and we had to leave .
      I still remember all their names, and wonder whatever happened to them.

      Walid …all the information you give is so invaluable. So few people know of the theft of the Jewish heritage from Irak is outrageous , yet not so surprising any more .

      • Bornajoo
        February 11, 2015, 7:58 am

        “So few people know of the theft of the Jewish heritage from Irak is outrageous , yet not so surprising any more .”

        That’s right Bintbiba, absolutely nothing surprises us any more!

        Walid, many thanks for letting us know about this theft. I’m going to see if any of our iraqi friends know about it. Nothing surprises or shocks me any more.

  9. Mooser
    February 8, 2015, 7:09 pm

    Oy Gevalt, they are going to bring “greater Palestine” under “Jewish sovereignty” but in the meantime, in between conquering the region (and in the face of most of the world), they spend their time worried shitless about “delegitimisation”, and intermarriage?

    Farblondzhet!

    • amigo
      February 9, 2015, 1:12 pm

      “Oy Gevalt, they are going to bring “greater Palestine” under “Jewish sovereignty” but in the meantime, in between conquering the region (and in the face of most of the world), they spend their time worried shitless about “delegitimisation”, and intermarriage? ” mooser

      You forgot normalisation.

      • Mooser
        February 9, 2015, 1:32 pm

        “You forgot normalisation.”

        You are right! I bet “normalization” would help a lot with the intermarriage thing, too! Anyway, doctors and surgeons can do amazing things these days.

  10. Bornajoo
    February 8, 2015, 7:15 pm

    “Pray tell what sort of a job of ethnic cleansing did Israel conduct if the territories that Israel now controls has as many Arabs living therein as Jews. This indicates that the very opposite of ethnic cleansing has taken place.”

    Every single illegal settlement with every single illegal Jewish settler (aka psychopathic nutjobs) is now an area that Palestinians have either been evicted from or are no longer allowed to go. So that is Arabs being kicked out to make way for Jews = ethnic cleansing. Just one example.

    Oh by the way Mayhem, do you agree with the settlements and do you agree with Robert in Israel’s position? I’m sure you read his numerous and lengthy posts but neither you or any of your fellow travellers made an appearance. Just really curious.

  11. Bornajoo
    February 8, 2015, 7:26 pm

    “He pointed to five threats facing Israel and Jews around the globe: terrorism and turmoil in the Arab World; rising anti-Semitism; the generation gap between older and younger Jews whose commitment to Israel is weakening (no reference to the human rights abuses that might explain why); Palestinian issues (given remarkably short-shrift); and Iran, Iran, Iran and the existential nuclear threat it poses to Israel and the rest of the globe (even though Israel is the Middle Eastern country that actually possesses nuclear weapons).”

    And Netanyahu has just reconfirmed he is definitely going to make the speech so I doubt he will ever back out now. Good. As you can see from his little speech below he’s made an error. He said he’s not going as prime minister of Israel, but as a spokesman for all Jews everywhere. Does anyone have his email address or phone number? I need to tell him urgently that he doesn’t speak for me or quite a number of Jews I know because, well, err, you see, we think he’s a maniac and the country he represents is committed crimes against humanity. So I really need to explain that when he makes his speech and he gets to the part where he says “I’m here to speak for all Jews everywhere…” at this point he needs to say “except for the following list”. If he doesn’t I might be able to sue him for misrepresentation. I know a good Jewish lawyer

    From Haaretz just now :

    “I went to Paris not just as the prime minister of Israel but as a representative of the entire Jewish people,” Netanyahu said, during a conference for French-speaking Likud activists. “Just as I went to Paris, so I will go anyplace I’m invited to convey the Israeli position against those who want to kill us. Those who want to kill us are, first and foremost, any Iranian regime that says outright it plans to destroy us. I will not hesitate to say what’s needed to warn against this danger, and prevent it.”

    • a blah chick
      February 8, 2015, 8:39 pm

      For some odd reason the Iranians seem pissed over Israel’s involvement in the death of their scientists.

      Go figure.

    • oldgeezer
      February 8, 2015, 11:55 pm

      Write him and tell him that, as someone representing all Jews, here are the things you expect him to say in order to meet that claim. Copy your representative and local newspaper.

    • Pixel
      February 9, 2015, 2:06 am

      @Baj

      Netanyahu:
      I will go to Congress like I went to Paris – to speak for all Jews

      There are rarely more than a few comments in response to any Haaretz article. This one is 34 and counting, about 32 of them indignant, “Bibi doesn’t speak for ME!”

      I pray the title goes viral!

      Ha!

      • Bornajoo
        February 9, 2015, 5:22 am

        Pixel

        You’re absolutely right about comments on Haaretz. I actually gave up trying to leave comments as only around 1 in 10 were ever published so it was a complete waste of time. I called them up and asked why and they admitted that they just don’t even get around to reading or publishing the vast majority of comments and don’t bother reading or publish any at all for many articles. so what a waste of time. However they have obviously decided to expend a little bit of energy on this article and you are right, 34 is a record. Notice that only ONE (idiot) is actually for Netanyahu and 33 against

    • Pixel
      February 9, 2015, 2:10 am

      .
      BENJAMIN NETANYAHU
      Telephone: 02-6753227
      Telephone 2: 02-6753228
      Fax: 02-6496659
      Email: bnetanyahu(at)knesset(dot)gov(dot)il

      @Baj
      May I suggest that you contact him but tell him that he ABSOLUTELY speaks for you – and for every other Jew throughout history. The best way to end this madness is to get behind it!!

      • Bornajoo
        February 9, 2015, 5:49 am

        Thanks Pixel and Oldgeezer

        I’m going to write to him now. I might send a copy to the Israeli embassy in London threatening libel action, just to see if I get a response.

        Finding a mainstream newspaper that will take up the story is going to be completely impossible due to the total fear of publishing anything anti-Israel. but I will give it a go….I know one thing for sure, the Guardian won’t, not with Mr Freedman-Zionist in charge. He will always protect his own. The Guardian made a huge mistake putting a Zionist Jew in as Executive Director and also in charge of the CIF department. So they now have their man on the inside stifling the facts and steering the debate his way. He is the gatekeeper controlling all news from that region. How absolutely ridiculous!

        So this zionist fool is now in charge of what is supposed to be the most prestigious left wing newspaper in the UK . I deleted the Guardian app and have asked all of my fiends and family to do so. Another news source where news about Israel-Palestine is infiltrated and controlled. Last year they (and Freedland was the main instigator) had Nafeez Ahmed’s contract at the Guardian terminated because he wrote a proper, true and factual article about the situation regarding the rich offshore gas fields off the coast of Gaza. He was writing that the political situation was to stop Hamas from exploiting those resources but Freedland’s mob told him they don’t want to run an “environmental article!) Please read this from Tony Greenstein’s blog:

        http://azvsas.blogspot.co.uk/2014/12/palestine-is-not-environment-story-how.html

        They are really good at it though, you have to hand it to them. They know exactly how to do it, and they do it well.

      • Walid
        February 9, 2015, 8:15 am

        Bornajoo, Nafeez Ahmed’s article that got him fired went beyond explaining what was behind Israel’s successive wars on Gaza to eliminate Hamas. That Gaza has loads of offshore natural gas that Israel doesn’t want to let Hamas get its hands on has been known before Cast Lead since this was most probably the cause behind Israel’s assault that had come with the foreknowledge of Egypt and the PA. 2 subsequent wars on Gaza, also with the knowledge and blessings of Egypt and the PA failed to wipe out Hamas.

        The touchy point that Nafeez covered in his Guardian article was about Israel’s insecurity about its own gas that everyone had believed so abundant that it would make Israel an exporter, he wrote:

        “… But this is the tip of the iceberg. A 2012 letter by two Israeli government chief scientists – which the Israeli government chose not to disclose – warned the government that Israel still had insufficient gas resources to sustain exports despite all the stupendous discoveries. The letter, according to Ha’aretz, stated that Israel’s domestic resources were 50% less than needed to support meaningful exports, and could be depleted in decades:

        “We believe Israel should increase its [domestic] use of natural gas by 2020 and should not export gas. The Natural Gas Authority’s estimates are lacking. There’s a gap of 100 to 150 billion cubic meters between the demand projections that were presented to the committee and the most recent projections. The gas reserves are likely to last even less than 40 years!”

        As Dr Gary Luft – an advisor to the US Energy Security Council – wrote in the Journal of Energy Security, “with the depletion of Israel’s domestic gas supplies accelerating, and without an imminent rise in Egyptian gas imports, Israel could face a power crisis in the next few years… If Israel is to continue to pursue its natural gas plans it must diversify its supply sources.”

        Bornajoo, the above must have touched a raw nerve in Israel. Nafeez Ahmed’s article in your linked Greenstein’s blog is worth the read.

        This clearly shows that Israel will hit Gaza again and again and again with the knowledge and acceptance of Gaza’s neighbours and that Israel to sustain its future needs, will be depending on what it can steal from the offshores of Gaza and Lebanon as well as from the West’s Bank’s inland where it’s already conducting explorations. It’s surely not exploring on the WB for the benefit of the Palestinians.

      • Bornajoo
        February 9, 2015, 10:25 am

        “This clearly shows that Israel will hit Gaza again and again and again with the knowledge and acceptance of Gaza’s neighbours and that Israel to sustain its future needs, will be depending on what it can steal from the offshores of Gaza and Lebanon as well as from the West’s Bank’s inland where it’s already conducting explorations. It’s surely not exploring on the WB for the benefit of the Palestinians. ”

        Thanks for clarification on that Walid. I have no doubt, unfortunately for the Palestinians, that you are absolutely right.

    • Pixel
      February 9, 2015, 2:13 am

      @Baj

      I know a good Jewish lawyer.

      Dershowitz?

      • Bornajoo
        February 9, 2015, 6:35 am

        Pixel,

        Dershbag might be a bit busy right now trying to defend himself :-)

      • Mooser
        February 10, 2015, 11:01 am

        See if Hophmi will accept a retainer. Unless he is too busy with his other client.

    • seafoid
      February 9, 2015, 5:03 am

      Those 5 threats are 5 consequences of YESHA. Finance types would call them black swans but realists see them as natural outcomes. Zionists do not understand agency. Their models work on the assumption that arabs have none.

      Zionism got lucky in 1948. Big tech advantage that was leveraged in 67. Lots of jews thought it was the work of gd. 77 election brought this worldview into government. It first ran into trouble in 82 in Beirut.

      Saudi is pumping oil money into jihad and the Arab world is in flux, Zionism’s memes can’t cope. YESHA means the bots are wedded to a very dangerous project. They have to give it up but they can’t because they can’t admit the last 50 years were wasted. So they venture deeper into incoherence.

    • amigo
      February 9, 2015, 12:41 pm

      “Just as I went to Paris,” nietanyahu.

      Uninvited and had to resort to pushing women out of his way to a spot at the front .

      The man is running out of welcomes as are his fellow apologists.

      He has to remove his foot from his mouth before shooting it.

  12. Kris
    February 8, 2015, 7:41 pm

    @Mayhem: “Whereas I once espoused dialog with pro-Palestinian groups I eventually learned that I was dealing with an intransigence and a fundamental unwillingness to accept Jewish sovereignty in any part of greater Palestine. Therein lies the true root of the conflict.”

    That’s it in a nutshell! The Palestinians don’t accept “Jewish sovereignty.” But maybe you could explain why they should.

    I can think of lots of examples from history. For example, the French wouldn’t accept German “sovereignty” in the 1940s, and the blacks of South Africa wouldn’t accept white “sovereignty.” Why should anyone accept the “sovereignty” of invaders?

    • Citizen
      February 9, 2015, 10:47 am

      There was an early Israeli Zionist leader who said if he were Palestinian, he wouldn’t accept Jewish sovereignty either.

    • amigo
      February 9, 2015, 12:28 pm

      “Why should anyone accept the “sovereignty” of invaders?” Kris.

      Because they are Jewish invaders and to oppose them is to be antisemitic and a Jew hater.

      What,s with you Kris.Are you antisemitic.

  13. pabelmont
    February 9, 2015, 10:13 am

    Didn’t Hitler use to stage huge rallies where flags were everywhere and a lot of cheering? Isn’t that the way to rally the troops and make them believe that they are on the right side?

    Let’s encourage American Jews to feel loyal to another country to the point of opposing more general American interests such as avoiding war with Iran — make us some more Israel Firsters.

    Yay AIPAC!

    • Citizen
      February 9, 2015, 10:52 am

      Most Americans would have nothing to say if Israel attacked Iran, and the next day a bipartisan US congress jumped in to support Israel’s effort. It’s the likely future.

  14. breakingthesilence
    February 9, 2015, 1:57 pm

    The term “delegitimisation” scares even many progressives, but in truth the state of Israel has no legitimacy. Every inch of that land was stolen from its rightful owners, the Palestinians who owned that land and had lived there for centuries and from whom it was brutally stolen. Racist, settler-colonialist Israel exists entirely on stolen land and that state has no right to exist, it has no legitimacy in any ethical sense of that word. Every inch of so-called Israel is stolen property. The US stole all its land from other peoples, the indigenous peoples and the Mexican people, and I would be delighted to see the USA be rejected by the other states of the world. But the indigenous people and the Mexicans are no longer struggling against US power. In Occupied Palestine (the accurate name for “Israel”) the situation is different. The Palestinian people still exist and are still struggling. I for one support them taking back their entire stolen homeland from the savage, murderous, racist sanctimonious colonizers who now possess it.

    • Mooser
      February 10, 2015, 8:14 pm

      “Racist, settler-colonialist Israel exists entirely on stolen land and that state has no right to exist, it has no legitimacy in any ethical sense of that word.”

      But, in spite of all that, they still got recognition for a state of “Israel” at the UN. And then they wouldn’t stay inside of their own declared borders, been outside since the day their “Israel” statehood was declared.
      Even (if it were possible) apart from the suffering and loss inflicted on the Palestinians, it is pretty obvious that Israel means to do nothing for Jews except use them, and benefit a small cohort, most of whom have an easy out.

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