‘This land is ours. All of it is ours’: Meet the Netanyahu cabinet members focused on fighting BDS & annexing the West Bank

Israel/Palestine
on 120 Comments

Israeli elections ended two months ago, but there still are a few minister spots open that could shape the direction of the country. Most of the top-ranking slots are filled, given away weeks ago to members of right-wing parties during coalition negotiations, and this week Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will complete his cabinet, promising the remaining seats–which could include the four cabinet positions he gave himself–to rank and file hardliners from within his own party. They support annexation of the West Bank and are fiercely opposed to any form of Palestinian statehood.

Confirmed last week Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely became the highest official in the foreign ministry, aside from Netanyahu who heads the portfolio. She will run day-to-day business, and is a vocal supporter of the greater Israel project. She is motivated by a religious belief that God gave the West Bank to the Jewish people, which she re-announced last week in her first address to the foreign ministry.

In addition, on Monday another annexationist, Gilad Erdan who is the former minister of interior, became the public security, and the strategic affairs and hasbara minister. In his latter role, Erdan will produce public relations materials against the boycott, divestment, sanctions (BDS) movement and negotiations with Iran.

Tzipi Hotovely

(Video: The Guardian)

In her inaugural speech to the foreign ministry last Thursday, Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely explained she is on a mission to convince the world that Israel inherited the occupied Palestinian territories from God. “This land is ours. All of it is ours. We did not come here to apologize for that,” said Hotovely in a meeting of the foreign ministry.

During the address she went on to quote from religious scholars explaining why Israel is not an occupier over the West Bank. Israel’s i24 translated:

“Rashi says the Torah opens with the story of the creation of the world so that if the nations of the world come and tell you that you are occupiers, you must respond that all of the land belonged to the creator of world and when he wanted to, he took from them and gave to us.”

Then switching to English, Hotovely closed by stating she will “demand” world leaders “declare Israel as a Jewish national state,” and back settlement growth in the occupied Palestinian territory:

“We expect the international community to back up the demand of our prime minister to declare on Israel as the Jewish national state. Moreover we expect as a matter of principle that the international community recognize Israel’s right to build homes for Jews in their homeland everywhere.”

Hotovely, 36, stems from the “new Likud” branch of the ruling coalition, a cohort of far-right politicians that have changed the character of the party over the last two election cycles. She is ultra-orthodox, in fact the only female ultra-orthodox member of Knesset, and speaks often about her religious motivations for expanding the settler movement.

Plucked from obscurity after Netanyahu watched her in a televised debate, Hotovely made her debut into politics in 2009 as the then youngest member of Knesset. When she joined the government she told the Jewish Press she wanted to run for office in order to strengthen the settler movement:

“I realized that the most important decisions are created here [in the Knesset]. That was the reason I decided that whatever issues might arise concerning the settlers in Eretz Yisrael, I want to be here to raise my hand for whatever is good for the Jewish people.”

In the same interview, Hotovely explained how religion drove her views on the settlements:

“[T]he settlements are part of our Jewish history. The Jews lived in Hebron, in Beit El. These are biblical places. Hebron is the place where King David began his kingdom. I don’t think it’s something we can let go, because what is Zionism all about? Zionism is really about going back to Zion, going back to Jerusalem, going back to all those biblical places. We need to start talking about the peace process without removing people from the settlements.”

Hotovely’s brand of religious nationalism appeals to rightists from within the Likud movement. She has built a base out of constituents who would otherwise cast ballots for a less influential, far-right party. In 2011 she told journalist Max Blumenthal that her political beliefs were identical to those of Naftali Bennett, the leader of the pro-settler Bayit Yehudi party.

In 2012 Hotovely addressed the “Application for Sovereignty of Judea and Samaria” conference where she called to incorporate parts of the West Bank into the state of Israel. For Hotovely, the biblical land of Israel should guide the contemporary borders of the state. Later the same year Hotovely went as far as introducing legislation into Knesset to annex the West Bank. It did not pass, although Hotovely is committed to re-introducing it.

Gilad Erdan

Gilad Erda. (Photo: Flash 90)

Gilad Erda. (Photo: Flash 90)

Before his dual appointments this week as the minister of public security, and strategic affairs and hasbara, Gilad Erdan was the minister of interior. In that position he made headlines after spearheading a cash for refugees plan, where Eritrean and Sudanese asylum seekers will be deported to Rwanda in exchange for a payoff.

In his new role, Erdan will oversee the Israeli police force and run Israel’s public relations with the international community. Erdan brokered increased funding to both departments in his negotiations with Netanyahu over the appointments. As well, a new focus was added to the position of strategic affairs and hasbara, a ministry that was created in 2006 for Avigdor Liberman and has only been filled by hardliners. Erdan now has specific instructions to double down against the BDS movement, and build opposition to the Iran negotiations between the U.S. and Europe.

Making his first comments after being sworn into office, Erdan spoke to Israel radio yesterday morning. “The questions that must be asked are about our personal security, the values of the police, and the attempts to boycott and delegitimize Israel around the world,” he said according to a report by the Jerusalem Post.

In politics for over two decades, Erdan is a close confidant of Netanyahu. He served as a foreign policy adviser back in 1996 during the prime minister’s first term. Then in 2003 he entered Knesset and slowly rose within the ranks. During his tenure he introduced an early version of the “nationality law” where Israel could revoke the citizenship of those deemed disloyal to the state. Then in 2014 he went a step further and stripped a Palestinian citizen of Israel who committed a security offense of his state benefits.

In 2012 while serving as minister of energy, Erdan recommended cutting off Gaza’s electricity supply when Israel faced power shortages. At the time he said Palestinians were “not worthy” of having electricity.

That same year Erdan appeared a vocal supporter of a growing faction within Knesset to annex the West Bank. He made statements backing Hotovely’s legislation to formally incorporate the occupied Palestinian territory into Israel, although unlike Hotovely he supported the measure as a matter of strategy and not religion. Later in 2014 Erdan recommended building new settlements and annexing the West Bank as a punitive measure against Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas for pursuing action at the United Nations.

While Hotovely and Erdan’s appointments come with significant domestic power to shape Israeli policy, their positions are also part of Israel’s external face. Foreign affairs and hasbara are the cornerstone of how Netanyahu will present his country to the world in his fourth term. Their hiring signals annexation is becoming more mainstream within Israel’s establishment party.

About Allison Deger

Allison Deger is the Assistant Editor of Mondoweiss.net. Follow her on twitter at @allissoncd.

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120 Responses

  1. Citizen
    May 27, 2015, 10:48 am

    Meanwhile, Dick and Jane, the ones who fund Israel’s wishes with the biggest chunk of US foreign aid in US history, yet know 0 about US UN SC veto immunizing Israel from accountability, remain totally ignorant of what goes on in Israel, and what Israel does to the natives. They are harnessed to the Zionist wagon and don’t even know it. Kudos to the US main media & US Congress whores bought by #AIPAC, the agent of a foreign government.

    • Not Your Casual Mondoweisser
      May 29, 2015, 8:33 am

      Why are you lying to all these people? Afghanistan gets 4 times what Israel gets in aid.
      And did you know most of the aid goes back to US?

      Of course not.

  2. David Doppler
    May 27, 2015, 11:00 am

    The lovely Hotovely, with the simple mind: God gave it to us. It’s right here in the Torah. What else is there to discuss?

    Deputy Foreign Minister, indeed. Deputy Sunday School teacher would be more fitting.

    • a blah chick
      May 27, 2015, 4:06 pm

      If she’s ultra orthodox why isn’t she covered up?

      • Elliot
        May 27, 2015, 5:38 pm

        You don’t need to be ultra-Orthodox to believe this stuff. On the contrary, this is more modern Orthodox.

      • piotr
        May 28, 2015, 6:06 pm

        I do not think that Hotovely is “ultra-Orthodox”. She seems to be Modern Orthodox, which to me is a fascist movement with “religious motivation”. Who knows, perhaps her household has two dishwashers, but she struts around with uncovered hair and elbows, poses to photographs etc. She is ultra-nationalist, and clearly an excellent pick for the Ministry of Defiance (formerly known as the Ministry of Foreign Affairs).

        “Rashi says the Torah opens with the story of the creation of the world so that if the nations of the world come and tell you that you are occupiers, you must respond that all of the land belonged to the creator of world and when he wanted to, he took from them and gave to us.” Is it really an exemplar of Jewish religious scholarship? First, Rashi is surely a revered scholar, but one could expect to consult him on something less obvious than the opening of the Torah. Second, isn’t it a bit non sequitur? Creation of the world does not seem very related to deciding who lives where and when. Or perhaps the point is that if the Creator could cheerfully disregard all those fossils and archaeological finds and create the World 5800 years ago, He could also give the Holy Land to Hebrews cheerfully disregarding other folks who live there. My guess is that Tsipi reveres the Torah but couldn’t be bother reading more than the first few pages.

    • JWalters
      May 27, 2015, 4:48 pm

      “What else is there to discuss?”

      I would add one thing. The Bible clearly states that God’s gift of the land to the Jews was CONDITIONAL, not absolute. It depended entirely upon the Jews following His commandments. If they did not, they would be expelled from the land with great suffering. This part is vivid and clear.

      They were expelled from the land. By the Bible’s logic, that means they broke the deal. That deal is therefore gone, done, off the table.

      The Bible goes on to say that IF they repent (another conditional), they may return to the land. But in this second coming it says NOTHING about driving out the inhabitants.

      The circumstances are completely different between now and the time of the original alleged gift. Today the inhabitants worship the same God as the Jews. They are also People of the Book.

      This woman is egregiously ignorant of her own holy book. But she is a perfect dupe for the war profiteers who finance such insanity.
      https://consortiumnews.com/2015/04/13/neocon-chaos-promotion-in-the-mideast/#comment-193096

      • RoHa
        May 27, 2015, 8:36 pm

        “It depended entirely upon the Jews following His commandments. If they did not, they would be expelled from the land with great suffering. This part is vivid and clear.

        They were expelled from the land. By the Bible’s logic, that means they broke the deal.”

        1. If commandments not followed, then expelled.
        2. Expelled
        3. Therefore commandments not followed.

        If that is the Bible’s logic, it commits the fallacy of transposed conditional.

        1. If it is raining, the streets will be wet.
        2. The streets are wet.
        3. Therefore, it is raining.

        But it isn’t raining. A water main has burst.

        To make the argument work we need an “only”.

        1′. Only if commandments not followed, then expelled.
        2. Expelled
        3. Therefore commandments not followed.

        (1′ is equivalent to “if expelled, then commandments not followed.)

        Does the Bible slip an “only” in somewhere?

        “But in this second coming it says NOTHING about driving out the inhabitants.”

        But the earlier parts of the Bible seem to suggest that driving out inhabitants is a jolly good thing to do. What’s wrong with doing it again?

      • dalme
        May 27, 2015, 11:32 pm

        Jeremiah 11, the Judah broke the covenant. Ezekiel 11, those who say that the land was given to them as a possession forever are not brethren of Ezekiel . Ezekiel 21 says that the scepter, aka, the right to rule the land was taken away from Judah and will not return to Judah until Moshiach ben David comes because to Him it belongs. Daniel 2, the image reflects all the regimes who rule the land until Moshiach ben David comes to restore His nation Israel and that image does not include a regime ruled by those who God cast out of His land because they broke His covenant. It is all there in black & white. Sure there are true biblical Israelites in the land as God promised that there would always remain a remnant of His people throughout all the ages, throughout all the regimes represented in the image in Daniel 2 and that is why when the Israelites returned to Judea from the Babylonian captivity, they were specifically told NOT to remove the boundary stones of the inhabitants, but to treat them as they themselves seek to be treated because they too were strangers in Egypt. Shalom

      • JWalters
        May 28, 2015, 3:10 am

        RoHa, good points. On the first, I think the “only” is contained in the assumption that their God is all powerful and will protect them from all enemies, as long as they obey His commandments. So the only way for them to lose the land and His protection is to break the deal.

        On the second point, the Bible excuses the initial slaughtering and expelling of the inhabitants specifically on the grounds that they are idolators, and do not worship the same God as the Jews. So this is sets a condition for those actions. That condition does not apply today. The holy book of the inhabitants, the Koran, specifically says they worship the same God as the Jews.

        dalme, thanks for the Biblical confirmations.

        I don’t mean to imply the Bible could be a legitimate grounds for deciding this dispute. But even accepting the Bible, the Zionist claim to the land today is groundless.

      • bryan
        May 28, 2015, 4:03 am

        RoHa – please help me with my logic…
        There are many different passages in the Bible describing God’s gift of the land to Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, Moses, etc. Some of the promises are unconditional, whilst many others are conditional, on Abraham’s descendants accepting circumcision, or obeying all God’s commandments, or living a life of pursuing justice and righteousness. There are several logical explanations for this, none of which are helpful to Hotovely’s case. Either the Bible correctly describes God’s real promises, but God frequently changes his mind, or the Bible incorrectly describes God’s intentions, hardly surprising since it is the construction of a variety of human authors, usually writing long after the events they purport to document. The Bible is clearly not a historical record but far more a pedagogical device employing a wide range of metaphors and allusions, aimed at influencing the behaviour of its readership. Finally, outside of the Bible itself their is not a jot of evidence that God has ever engaged in conversation with humans, or snakes, or asses, that God makes promises, or even exists. The majority of Zionists are secularists and perfectly happy to argue that God, who does not exist, promised us the entire Land of Israel. God seems to be have been as reluctant as modern Israeli government to declare the actual boundaries of Israel, sometimes referring to the land where you stand, the land that you see, the land of Canaan, or even all the land from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates. Does that mean settlements are to expand indefinitely, over what are now Syria, Lebanon, Turkey and Iraq?

      • RoHa
        May 28, 2015, 7:41 pm

        “On the first, I think the “only” is contained in the assumption that their God is all powerful …”

        Seems a reasonable conclusion to draw.

        “On the second point, …So this is sets a condition for those actions.”

        Mere legal niceties. Why let them spoil the fun?

      • RoHa
        May 28, 2015, 7:45 pm

        “please help me with my logic… There are many different passages in the Bible describing God’s gift of the land’

        I recommend that you take a refresher course in logic, and then take up the issue with God yourself. If you can track him down, that is. He’s a pretty elusive and slippery character, and he has good lawyers.

        “Does that mean settlements are to expand indefinitely, over what are now Syria, Lebanon, Turkey and Iraq?”

        Yes.

      • ckg
        May 28, 2015, 9:41 pm

        Bryan: Finally, outside of the Bible itself their is not a jot of evidence that God has ever engaged in conversation with humans, or snakes, or asses,

        On the contrary, God spoke to Mike Huckabee in 1972. I don’t know if he qualifies as human, but I am certain he fits at least one of the three categories..

      • bryan
        May 29, 2015, 9:50 am

        Nowadays most of those who claim that God has been talking to them are inhabitants of lunatic asylums. Is Israel just one huge and expanding lunatic asylum?

  3. Elliot
    May 27, 2015, 11:28 am

    “This land is ours. All of it is ours”

    Reminds me of two poems.
    I saw the first one framed on the wall of a daycare center. The second one is with apologies to a great American:

    1) “The Toddler’s Creed” by Dr. Burton White

    If I want it,
    IT’S MINE!

    If I give it to you and change my mind later,
    IT’S MINE!

    If I can take it away from you,
    IT’S MINE!

    If it’s mine it will never belong to anybody else,
    No matter what.
    If we are building something together,
    All the pieces are mine!

    If it looks just like mine,
    IT’S MINE!

    If it breaks or needs putting away,
    IT’S YOURS!

    2) This land was your land and now it’s my land

    From the sea of Gaza to the Jordan River
    
From the Hermon Mountain to the Gulf of Akaba

    This land was made for you, now me.

    As I was walking that ribbon of highway, 

    I saw above me that endless skyway: 

    I saw below me that golden valley: 

    This land was made for you, now me.

    As I went walking I saw a sign there 

    And on the sign it said “A Border Crossing.” 

    But on the other side it didn’t say nothing, 

    That side was made for me as well

    Nobody living can ever stop me, 

    As I go walking that Jewish highway;
    
Nobody living can ever make me turn back 

    This land was made for me, all mine

  4. Kay24
    May 27, 2015, 11:39 am

    Isn’t it ironic that while they keep getting more and more greedy for Palestinian lands, and the new government formed are openly showing disregard for international laws by advocating for more land grabs, illegal settlements, and anti 2 States, their own people are struggling to get back what is rightfully theirs elsewhere?

    Zionists must know more than others what it feels like to be discriminated, and lose their properties, and yet here they are doing the same to helpless people. No lessons learnt, no compassion for others suffering the same way. Do unto others……

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/jewish-groups-struggle-to-regain-nazi-seized-property/

    • RockyMissouri
      May 28, 2015, 12:19 pm

      That’s why they’ll always be occupiers. Because of monstrous and inhuman behavior. The things they have done, with GLEE, make me ashamed to think we are even the same species.

  5. eljay
    May 27, 2015, 11:52 am

    || Kay24 @ May 27, 2015, 11:39 am ||

    Zio-supremacists – whether they’re “liberal Zionists” or full-on, hard-core supremacists – are hateful and immoral precisely because they knowingly and wilfully advocate, engage in, support, justify and/or excuse doing unto others acts of injustice and immorality they would not have others do unto them.

    • Kay24
      May 27, 2015, 12:57 pm

      I agree. To your point another example is Pammy Geller, who is pushing hard to put up more posters on buses in DC, this time showing the Mohammed cartoon that won her “who is the bigger bigot” contest in Texas. She could not stand the factual “shrinking map of Palestine” that was put up at subway stations, and accused those of doing so of being anti-semitism. Double standards again.

  6. Marnie
    May 27, 2015, 12:04 pm

    They’ve known no hardships, no losses and have had everything handed to them on a silver platter. They’re arrogant, greedy, hateful thieves. When they hit bottom, it’s going to be epic.

    • amigo
      May 27, 2015, 12:47 pm

      “They’ve known no hardships,” Marnie.

      Try to be more fair to our blue eyed Jon,s come lately Euro Jews.They have had to step amongst snakes and lesser humans .

      It ain,t easy being a chosen one.

  7. pabelmont
    May 27, 2015, 12:14 pm

    There’s quite a bit of land in Central America of which the descendants of certain earlier “owners” might well say, echoing these Bible-Thumping Israelis, “It’s all Mayan”. I don’t believe that American Navahos or Apaches etc get very far with that argument, but they — sadly for them — aren’t granted Chosen-People-Hood by US Pols and certain casino owners.

    • amigo
      May 27, 2015, 12:27 pm

      “There’s quite a bit of land in Central America of which the descendants of certain earlier “owners” might well say, echoing these Bible-Thumping Israelis, “It’s all Mayan”.” Pabelmont.

      Nice one .

  8. amigo
    May 27, 2015, 12:25 pm

    For 25 + years I have been listening to zionist apologists claiming that if only the Palestinians would stop their violence they could have their state.My only question now is,

    Where, When and How and Who in the Israeli government will deliver given what we have always known and here we have more evidence of their real intentions.

    It seems as if 2015 will be the year that Israel finally came clean.

    Now let,s get on with demanding equality and justice for all citizens of the “Greater Israel” .

  9. amigo
    May 27, 2015, 1:03 pm

    “Then switching to English, Hotovely closed by stating she will “demand” world leaders “declare Israel as a Jewish national state,” and back settlement growth in the occupied Palestinian territory:”

    Get ready gentiles.Israel is telling their Elohim to come and sort us out.Better have a word with our God.I don,t think He / She will appreciate an impostor putting words in His / Her Mouth.I am looking forward to the “War of the Deities ” and I am giving odds on the gentile God picking up the silverware.

    • Doubtom
      May 28, 2015, 8:09 pm

      She is laughable, a religious clown, now in a position of power, but so are our own religious clowns, like Huckster Huckaby et al, who are struggling to get to positions of power so they can bring us their god’s directives. Religion is the problem, or put another way, gross ignorance.

  10. justicewillprevail
    May 27, 2015, 1:19 pm

    So the land is yours because a nursery story told you so. Let’s see how that flies, shall we? Already you demand this, demand that, while ignoring and snubbing the international legal obligations which you pretend to subscribe to. Obnoxious, spoilt and privileged teenager syndrome. Meanwhile your leader, in a desperate attempt to keep the subsidies coming his way, struts around saying he wants some vague talks leading nowhere, business as usual. Yes, we must do as you demand or, or what? You’ll stamp your little foot and talk about antisemitism? Whilst taking more and making more people homeless, more people in jails without trial, more midnight raids and arresting children, shooting fishermen and cutting off water to communities. Yes, we get the picture. It’s ugly. It’s racist. And it’s criminal.

    • RockyMissouri
      May 28, 2015, 12:26 pm

      Netanyahu and his kindred souls are earning the enmity of the world, by the horrific way they are treating the Palestinians.

      He will be responsible for MORE antisemitism… Just like Geller.

  11. MHughes976
    May 27, 2015, 2:14 pm

    I never thougt that could be a form of Zionism that wasn’t about all the land but only about some of it. This would imply some equality of rights and on that basis it is hard to. see how Zionism could ever have become a programme of action. On the other hand most Zionists believe in generosity (I expect Ms. H does) giving the Palestinians some things they don’t actually deserve, though this is generosity in menacing and maddening form.

    • Elliot
      May 27, 2015, 4:17 pm

      ” never thougt that could be a form of Zionism that wasn’t about all the land but only about some of it.”
      Amos Oz (I think, in “Black Box”) suggests that Zionism was about securing a place of refuge. To want more than that was greedy. If all you want is that + a place for Hebrew culture to thrive, the West Bank is a liability.
      At least in principle.

      • MHughes976
        May 28, 2015, 5:20 pm

        Well, I think that if I have only as much right to live in the place where I was born as is compatible with the achievement by immigrants of not only a refuge but of a refuge under their own control, accepted by them as adequate, then my relevant right is nil.
        So if I do have a relevant right the immigrants’ claims are mistaken.
        That’s my reason for thinking that Zionism would have paralysed itself if it had accepted that the Jewish right to Palestine was in any way at all limited by any Palestinian right to a place of their own anywhere. I have not read Oz, I admit, but I rather suspect he’s a self-deceiver.

  12. Boomer
    May 27, 2015, 2:26 pm
  13. neggy
    May 27, 2015, 2:47 pm

    You guys don’t understand anything. I will give you the logic (via Jabotinsky):

    Our ancestors knew that very well. And the Talmud quotes a very instructive legal action – which has a direct bearing on this matter.

    Two people walking along the road find a piece of cloth. One of them says: ” I found it. It is mine:” But the other says: ” No: that is not true: I found the cloth, and it is mine: ” The judge to whom they appeal cuts the cloth in two, and each of these obstinate folk gets half. But there is another version of this action. It is only one of the two claimants who is obstinate: the other, on the contrary, has determined to make the world wonder at this magnanimity.

    So he says: “We both found the cloth, and therefore I ask only a half of it, because the second belongs to B. But B. insists that he found it, and that he alone is entitled to it.” In this case, the Talmud recommends a wise Judgment, that is, how very disappointing to our magnanimous gentleman. The judge says: “There is agreement about one half of the cloth. A. admits that it belongs to B. So it is only the second half that is in dispute. We shall, therefore divide this into two halves” and the obstinate claimant gets three-quarters of the cloth, while the ”gentleman” has only one quarter, and serve him right. It is a very fine thing to be a gentleman, but it is no reason for being an idiot. Our ancestors knew that. But we have forgotten it. We should bear it in mind.

    If Israel does not assert its claim on all the land, as the Palestinian Arabs never fail to do, then Israel leaves itself in the shoes of the “gentleman” with regard to the judgment of world opinion.

    From the perspective of a negotiation, Israel has been highly foolish to make a case based on security and willingness for peace rather than a case based on rights. Now I know that Mondoweiss doesn’t agree with that case, but it is crucial for Israel to assert it loud and clear if it does not want to be taken for a ride in negotiations. This is exactly Tzipi Hotovely’s point: Nobody will ever agree with any peace agreement leaving Israel in possession of any land in Judea and Samaria, and they will always see Palestinian “concessions” of land in 1949 Israel to be a concession of land that they believe is theirs. So the theory goes that if Israel makes its case that it too would be making concessions of land by giving the Palestinians land at all, it can reach a deal more to its liking. Right now, many around the world see Israel withdrawing from all the land as necessary because they only see one side making the case that the land is theirs.

    • a blah chick
      May 27, 2015, 4:12 pm

      Israeli Zionism means that you as a non Jew will never have the same rights, privileges or responsibilities as the Jew. Why would anyone except that deal.

      If Zionism cannot accommodate all the people living under its rule as equals then Zionism has to go, not the people. It’s not complicated.

      • dalme
        May 28, 2015, 12:03 am

        Very well said. It is the ideology that is the problem. An ideology based on fiction ( a twisting of His Word) rather than the facts that God spoke through His prophets, beginning with Moses.

        Lev 25:23 ‘And the land is not to be sold beyond reclaim, for the land is Mine, for you are sojourners and settlers with Me.’

        The land of Israel belongs to God, just as the whole earth is His. He leased His land to the Israelites under very clear terms that if they broke the terms of the lease, they would be scattered throughout the earth until Moshiach be David comes to restore the land. Shalom

      • RockyMissouri
        May 28, 2015, 12:28 pm

        Truth.

    • amigo
      May 27, 2015, 4:44 pm

      “You guys don’t understand anything. I will give you the logic (via Jabotinsky):

      Our ancestors knew that very well. And the Talmud quotes a very instructive legal action – which has a direct bearing on this matter. “neggy

      You are quoting a book written by Jews for Jews.You lost the argument right there.

      Btw, there is no such place as Judea /Samaria.The correct term is “Occupied Palestine”.

      Even the highest court in Israel has agreed.

      See case Case # 2054 /04 .Look for the clause that states that Israel has been holding The West Bank ” under belligerent Occupation”.

      In case you do not quite understand that , it means it is not Israeli sovereign Territory and Israel cannot cede what it has stolen.

      Oh , am I writing like an antisemite.

      • neggy
        May 27, 2015, 5:22 pm

        Uh, the point of the argument (which is essentially formal logic) is sound regardless of the source. If you think that geometric arguments don’t carry weight because they are made by Rabbis, then yes, you may be antisemitic.

      • Annie Robbins
        May 27, 2015, 5:31 pm

        Uh, the point of the argument (which is essentially formal logic) is sound regardless of the source.

        what source. you didn’t link to a source.

        I will give you the logic (via Jabotinsky) ….. It is a very fine thing to be a gentleman, but it is no reason for being an idiot. Our ancestors knew that. But we have forgotten it. We should bear it in mind. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/05/netanyahu-fighting-annexing/comment-page-1#comment-770637

        neggy. could you provide a link to your blockquote please. or tell us what source you are citing “via Jabotinsky”. i can’t find it online anyway. if you are paraphrasing you should say so and not use quotemarks.

      • Mooser
        May 27, 2015, 5:36 pm

        ” if you are paraphrasing you should say so and not use quotemarks.”

        Ah, yes, the amazing Zionist relationship with quotes and the quotemarks which distinguish them.

      • lysias
        May 27, 2015, 5:38 pm

        The argument depends on the assumption that it’s best to get as much as you can, or at least a fair share. That’s not logic, that’s a moral judgment, a moral preference. Jesus would say, if the other one demands the whole cloth, let him have all of it. In that way, you may get less cloth, but you will establish yourself as morally superior.

      • amigo
        May 27, 2015, 6:15 pm

        “Uh, the point of the argument (which is essentially formal logic) is sound regardless of the source”neggy

        Your argument is superfluous because Netanyahu and co are not interested in sharing 1/2 or 1/4 or 1 sq millimetre .They are slowly stealing it all and are well on their way to achieving that goal.

        That is based on logic learned through observing the process unfolding before our very eyes.The 2SS is dead so move along and join the camp that is seeking equal rights for all citizens of “Israel”.
        .

        You do support equal rights for all , don,t you.If your answer is no , then you might be an anti Arabist

      • neggy
        May 27, 2015, 6:20 pm

        lysias, obviously the assumption here is that each side is trying to maximize the cloth he gets, since in this case, both have an equally good claim to it. The assumption on my part for Israel is that it wants to maximize the land area it can get from any negotiation. Those are implicit. If that is the case, it can’t concede land before negotiations start (the conclusion of the above argument).

      • neggy
        May 27, 2015, 6:30 pm

        I already explained in the other thread that I don’t think the Arabs _deserve_ any land for the same reason the “Sudeten Germans” don’t deserve any land in Czechia, they started a war, lost, and then perpetuated it for 70 years by means of guerilla attacks on civilians.

        That doesn’t mean they won’t get any land, but whatever they get will be an Israeli concession relative to what I think is a just solution (the Czech solution to the question of “Sudeten German” terrorism and aggression, in which the Sudetens got squat).

        Does that sound harsh? Well, war is harsh, and those who resort to military aggression should be aware of the consequences should they lose.

      • amigo
        May 27, 2015, 6:55 pm

        “If you think that geometric arguments don’t carry weight because they are made by Rabbis, then yes, you may be antisemitic. ” neggy

        Does not matter whether they are Rabbis /Priests/Vicars /Pastors or any religious nut who quotes the Bible/Torah as law.

        Seriously , do you believe in such nonsense.

      • amigo
        May 27, 2015, 8:11 pm

        “The assumption on my part for Israel is that it wants to maximize the land area it can get from any negotiation ” neggy

        Your assumption is correct but in this case Israel uses fake negotiations to maximise the amount it gets by force.

        You must be completely blind to not see that.Watch that ziocaine intake. You are messing with a highly toxic material , that can lead to loss of cognitive skills and connection to reality.

      • pjdude
        May 27, 2015, 8:34 pm

        @neggy no it was the zionists who started the war.

        your just defending thugs who use war to steal.

        the palestinians should get all of their country back and Israel should go bye bye like the terrorist state it is.

      • neggy
        May 27, 2015, 9:13 pm

        pjdude, take it up with Benny Morris who documents sniper attacks on Jewish communities on Nov 30 1947.

        Unless you have evidence of Jewish attacks on Arab communities before that date and after 1944, you are wrong.

      • Annie Robbins
        May 29, 2015, 10:41 pm

        Benny Morris .. documents sniper attacks on Jewish communities on Nov 30 1947.

        Unless you have evidence of Jewish attacks on Arab communities before that date and after 1944, you are wrong.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks List of Irgun attacks 1937-1948

        1937, November 14 10 Arabs killed by Irgun units launching attacks around Jerusalem, (“Black Sunday”)

        see how easy that was. of course zionists are responsible for the war. the plan was to ethnically cleanse palestine to make a demographic majority, which they did. nakba denial is a banning offense here. (consider yourself warned)

        go somewhere else to peddle lies, we’ve move on and do not debate this period of history, nor do we debate whether the holocaust happened or who is responsible.

      • pjdude
        May 27, 2015, 11:43 pm

        neggy i don’t need to zionist attacks on arabs (and the british i might add) were common before the war of zionist conquest started. that benny morris said arabs started is meaningless. the guy was a zionist. he was going to make the jewish terrorists look as good as possible. and haganah started attacking arab communities in 46. and i say the zionists started because had they be willing to live in peace instead of demanding territory they had no right to and planning on waging a war to do it the conflict would never happen. your a typical zionist deviod of any sense of responsibility or accountability for your sides actions.

      • lysias
        May 28, 2015, 10:55 am

        I already explained in the other thread that I don’t think the Arabs _deserve_ any land for the same reason the “Sudeten Germans” don’t deserve any land in Czechia, they started a war, lost, and then perpetuated it for 70 years by means of guerilla attacks on civilians.

        The Jews started two (or three) wars by rebelling against Rome, and lost those wars. So does that mean they lost any right to land in Palestine at that point?

      • Doubtom
        May 28, 2015, 8:20 pm

        Clearly, ‘amigo’ you are an anti-semite, the qualification for which appears to be anyone with the capacity think clearly and to see the flimsy basis for the Jewish claim to any land, as deriving from some god, who favors them over everyone else.

      • Philemon
        May 29, 2015, 9:02 pm

        Neggy says: “Unless you have evidence of Jewish attacks on Arab communities before that date and after 1944, you are wrong.”

        Okay… This loser is denying the Nakba in no uncertain terms.

      • Annie Robbins
        May 29, 2015, 10:45 pm

        thanks for the alert philemon, just gave him a warning.

      • Mooser
        March 21, 2016, 4:01 pm

        For some Zionists, doing the hora barefoot in a cow-pasture or no-leash area isn’t enough. They drive out to the sewage-treatment plant, and dive into the primary collection tank. Ahhhh, a nice warm bath.

    • justicewillprevail
      May 27, 2015, 6:02 pm

      What hogwash from beginning to end, complete with hokey little stories about bits of cloth. Dressing this up as ‘logic’ which then can’t be criticised because that would be ‘antisemitic’ is risible. There is no evidence that claiming all of the land for Israel is some kind of negotiating strategy, which is all you highflown attempts to sound like a logician amount to. On the contrary every action points to the deeply held belief that it is ‘all ours’, and a ruthless determination to make it so. It has been that way since the founding of the state, built upon lies and deceit. As for the Palestinians, contrary to your claim, they have made clear for decades what they will settle for – the rest of the world agrees with them. Hasbara fail, again.

    • Marnie
      May 28, 2015, 3:21 am

      Neggy – it’s you that doesn’t understand. The ancestors you talk about were dispersed from the land because they didn’t obey the laws of the land as directed from God (see Dalme’s post). If you don’t believe that part, then don’t bother to respond. You use the Talmud as backup though. It’s nothing more than a collection of rabbinic arguments and tracts and more arguments that do nothing more than attempt to elevate man above God and that’s arrogant and incredibly stupid, but that’s the Talmud for you.

    • bryan
      May 28, 2015, 5:40 am

      A lovely story Neggy, but hardly in accord with the facts. The piece of cloth had been owned by Palestinians for centuries, so was not suddenly discovered by two equal passers-by. Nevertheless, a generous judge (UNGA) proposed to give more than half the cloth (55%) to recent immigrants (December 1947 Partition Proposal). The recipient gladly grabbed this portion, but then proceeded to grab more than half the remnant – conquering 78% of Mandatory Palestine by the time it stopped its conquest in 1948. Not satisfied with more than half, and then more than half again, it grabbed the tattered remains of the fabric in 1967. It then grabbed another chunk in East Jerusalem. Despite the unanimity of the world community that Palestine was entitled to a state on 22% of its land, Israel busied itself with building colonial settlements and refusing to negotiate until 1993, when it generously allowed limited autonomy to a Palestinian Authority on 3% of the West Bank (Area A). Despite the fact that Israel committed to hand over Areas B and C to the PA by 1999 Israel immediately reneged on its commitments, and continues to obstruct peace and to build Apartheid roads, barriers, settlements and checkpoints on Palestinian land.

      Had the writers of the Talmud known just how greedy and obstinate their heirs were to become, an entirely different work would have resulted, with far less nonsense about justice and peace, and far more invocations to “oppress the stranger”.

    • Zofia
      May 28, 2015, 12:13 pm

      First of all it is not as if everything was calm and that it started on 29 November, so it is meaningless to try to pinpoint 1 event from that day to blame all what happened later on several ppl!!
      Remember what Simha Flapan wrote in “The Birth of Israel: Myths and Realities”, especially: “Myth One: Zionists Accepted the UN Partition and Planned for Peace”; “Myth Two: Arabs Rejected the Partition and Launched War”; “Myth Four: All the Arab States United to Expel the Jews from Palestine”; “Myth Seven: Israel has Always Sought Peace, but No Arab Leader Has Responded”.

      More in: Nur Masalha, “1948 and After” Revisited- comment on Benny Morris’ book.
      For example I. Pappe, Walid Khalidi, Nur Masalha T. Segev, Shlaim, and many others wrote so much about the tranfer idea, and other Zionist politics towards Arab Palestinians long before Nakba!
      Yosef Weitz and the Transfer Committees, 1948-1949, by B. Morris 1986
      Yosef Nahmani and the Arab Question in 1948 [it shows that Nahmani advocated tranfer as in 1930s]
      Official Jewish Agency’s “Transfer Committees” and “Transfer” schemes from 1937 onwards.
      Erskine Childers: The Other Exodus
      And works about it for example by Nur Masalha, W. Khalidi and Pappe. It is useless to play who did what in 1 day, since things were going downhill long long before even the idea of partition came to be considered very seriously.
      Later in the ’40s:
      As early as March 1946 Haganah had told the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry: “If you accept the Zionist solution, but are unable or unwilling to enforce it, please do not interfere, and we ourselves will secure its implementation”.[Head of Command, Jewish Resistance Movement, to Joint Chairman Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry” 25 May 1946, p. 11- A stenciled memorandum distributed by The Jewish Agency Delegation during the committee’s session.[in:Plan Dalet Revisited”, by Walid Khalidi]

      If you want to show who did what first [I can still play…] the shooting on 30 of November was the result of this:
      November 12, 1947
      near Raanana
      In the process of raiding a LEHI terrorist arsenal in a farmhouse, British troops kill three Jewish girls and two boys. A wave of retaliatory killings begins immediately.

      November 13, 1947
      Jerusalem
      Jewish terrorists attack the Ritz Cafe, a favorite with the Brits, throwing hand grenades and firing a machine gun into it.

      November 14, 1947
      Jerusalem; Tel Aviv
      Jewish terrorists kill two British policemen in Jerusalem and two soldiers in Tel Aviv. The body count for this day and the previous two is now 53: 10 Britons killed, 33 wounded; five Jews killed, five more wounded.

      November 20, 1947
      near Raanana
      LEHI executes four Arabs, continuing its retaliations for the November 12 tragedy.

      November 22, 1947
      Haifa
      Another Arab murdered by LEHI/the Stern gang following their execution of four Arabs near Raanana November 20 in retaliation for the British shooting of five Stern gang members on November 12. Arabs retaliated against this killing at Raanana by wounding five Jews on a bus near Tel Aviv on November 30.
      Of course we can mention previous Zionist attacks on British soldiers and administration in general, on Palestinians Arabs and even Jews…
      Try:
      A Summary of Zionist Terrorism in the Near East — 1944-1948
      Prepared for Dr. Ralph J. Bunche, UN Mediator for Palestine

      Foreward: In view of the tragic assassination of Count Folke Bernadotte by identified Jewish terrorists on September 17 of this year, the following report has been prepared for the use of Dr. Bunche, Count Bernadotte’s immediate replacement.
      The report is a compilation of all identified terrorist attacks on British, American and Arab individuals and entities from the assassination of the British Resident Minister in the Middle East on November 6, 1944 by members of the terrorist Jewish Stern gang to the assassination of Count Bernadotte on September 17, 1948 by members of this same gang of fanatics.
      This information is compiled from reports of the US Department of State, the British Foreign Office and various American and British press services.
      New York, October 1, 1948

      In that report:
      It becomes clearly evident that the partition is not going as planned and that although the Jews are pleased, the Arabs are not. There appears to be no way to control the Jews or their determination to drive all of the Arabs out of Jerusalem by force if necessary. The Arabs, initially living in peace with the Jewish minority, have been increasingly victimized by the Jews who, now that the British are leaving, are turning their savage behavior against them.

      The Jews have redoubled their efforts to build a military force and arm them. They claim that this force is to protect the Jewish population against attacks from the Arab countries as well as the Arab population of Jerusalem but an even stronger argument can be made that the Zionists are determined to drive out the Arab population by armed force. The initial Arab response to Jewish harassment over the past year has been very slow in coming but it seems to be quite inevitable and a terrible civil war is foreseen.

      The United States Department of State announced on December 5, 1947 that they were placing an embargo on all American arms shipments to the Middle East. It appears that the Soviets have been sending weapons, mostly captured German pieces, to assist the Zionists and accompanying these clandestine arms shipments the Soviets have also sent a very sizable contingent of instructors and advisors to Palestine in months past.
      http://www.amazon.com/Israeli-Terrorism-Middle-East-1944-ebook/dp/B00VPUFVLM

      There are many other lists available
      One list starts with:
      1947
      Jan. 12—Four killed by Irgun terrorist bombing of British headquarters.
      Jan. 13—Arab kidnapped and castrated by Jewish terrorists.
      March 1—Sixteen Britons killed by Jewish terrorists/Britain invokes martial law
      March 10—Jewish informer killed by Jewish terrorists.
      March 11—Two British soldiers killed by Jewish terrorists.
      April 8—British constable killed by Jewish terrorists.
      April 8—Jewish boy killed by British troops.
      April 8—Jew beaten to death by Arabs.
      April 22—Eight killed in Jewish terrorist bombing of the Cairo-Haifa train.
      April 25—Five killed in Jewish terrorist bombing of British camp.
      April 26—British police official killed by Jewish terrorist.
      May 8—Three Jewish shops in Tel Aviv whose owners refused to contribute to Jewish terrorist groups burned down by Jewish terrorists.

      through:

      Aug. 15—Twelve Palestinians killed in raid by Haganah troops.
      Aug. 18—Shops of five Jews in Tel Aviv destroyed by Jewish terrorists.
      Aug. 23—Five Arabs of one family—two men, a woman and two children—killed by Jewish terrorists.
      Dec. 13—35 Palestinian civilians killed in Jewish terrorist attacks.

      ending with:
      Dec. 29—14 Arabs killed by Irgun bomb in Jerusalem.
      Dec. 29—Irgun flogs British major and three sergeants.
      Dec. 30—41 Jews, 6 Arabs killed in riot sparked by Stern Gang.
      Dec. 31—Irgun claims to have killed 374 Arabs and British during year.

      Link:
      http://www.wrmea.org/2006-may-june/hamas-a-pale-image-of-the-jewish-irgun-and-lehi-gangs.html
      or : http://www.britishforcesinpalestine.org

      In sum: Zionists attacked:British, Pal.Arabs and Jews.

      • zaid
        May 28, 2015, 4:58 pm

        @Zofia
        Thanx for the effort.

      • RoHa
        May 28, 2015, 7:09 pm

        Good to see you posting again, Zofia.

        “First of all it is not as if everything was calm and that it started on 29 November,”

        Indeed not. Lehi assassinated Lord Moyne in 1944.

        The King David Hotel was blown up in July 1946.

        Zionist violence starts at least from the first time Zionists bought a bit of land and used force to drive away the tenant farmers.

        But it is important to remember that the Zionists were the invaders.

        According to the 100% super-reliable Wikipedia
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Guinness,_1st_Baron_Moyne#Assassination
        Lehi allegedly said, “We accuse Lord Moyne and the government he represents, with murdering hundreds and thousands of our brethren; we accuse him of seizing our country and looting our possessions. We were forced to do justice and to fight”.*

        The Zionists were in the process of seizing the country long before then.

        (*If this quote is accurate, Lehi were guilty, not merely of terrorism, but, much more seriously, of misuse of commas.)

      • Mooser
        May 29, 2015, 10:37 am

        “(*If this quote is accurate, Lehi were guilty, not merely of terrorism, but, much more seriously, of misuse of commas.)”

        Perhaps his commastomy bag had a leak.

      • yonah fredman
        May 30, 2015, 4:20 pm

        Zofia: In what way did the Arabs not reject the partition plan?

        I’m sure that I do not have the credibility to assert the superiority of one historian to another, but I just read a bit of Shlomo Sands’ “The Invention of the Land of Israel” and in it he writes that the Arab leaders initiated the war in 1948.

        Once the partition plan was passed and the Arabs rejected it all violence that occurred has to be seen in that context. One can be understanding and say, “of course they rejected it, they should have rejected it. it was unfair.” But these things have a momentum of their own and the rejection of the partition plan was in fact the start of the 48 war.

        I guess you can say that the Balfour declaration was the start of the 48 war. I hear you. But still a little historical accuracy and specificity needs to be applied.

      • Zofia
        May 30, 2015, 6:28 pm

        @Yonah
        Those are the titles of his book. And you must read them as a whole. You wrote: In what way did the Arabs not reject the partition plan? And he writes about “Myth Two: Arabs Rejected the Partition AND Launched War”. Read the chapter(s)… It would be a shame if I picked only few of his info. Talking about accuracy….

      • talknic
        March 21, 2016, 8:36 pm

        @ yonah fredman “I guess you can say that the Balfour declaration was the start of the 48 war. I hear you. But still a little historical accuracy and specificity needs to be applied”

        The Zionist Federation started the war in 1897 when it decided to colonize Palestine

        As for the Arabs rejecting the partition plan, it’s entirely irrelevant as of the moment the Israeli Government proclaimed the state of Israel ” as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law. The Act of Independence will become effective at one minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time.” http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/israel/large/documents/newPDF/49.pdf

  14. eljay
    May 27, 2015, 3:24 pm

    || neggy: … I will give you the logic (via Jabotinsky) … ||

    The rapist and his victim were “walking down the road” one day when they came upon her womanhood so, of course, he was entitled to no less than half of it…

    Zio-supremacist “logic” – funny stuff! :-)

    There’s nothing “gentlemanly” – or just or moral – about the past and on-going (war) crimes perpetrated by Zio-supremacists to secure (i.e., steal, occupy and colonize) as much of Palestine as possible in order to establish and maintain a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” of (Greater) Israel.

    • eljay
      May 27, 2015, 3:37 pm

      || eljay: The rapist and his victim … ||

      Correction: The rapist and his soon-to-be victim …

    • neggy
      May 27, 2015, 3:53 pm

      I already conceded that you deny Israel’s claim to the land for whatever your reasons are. They are immaterial to the case that I am making (not least because you believe that Israel has no legitimate claim to any part of the land). The point is that Israel is negotiating strategically. You are trying to dismiss them as religious fanatics, but Jabotinsky’s parable from the Talmud explains the logic behind the negotiating tactic. If you keep trying to take a “reasonable” position in a negotiation, it will draw the ultimate resolution inexorably toward your opponent’s initial position.

      This is not “Zio-anything” logic. It is just logic plain and simple, although I do admire your cute attempt to reintroduce the notion of “Jewish physics” and “Jewish logic”.

      Thanks for the vitriol though. I’ll keep it in a flask for another time.

      • dalme
        May 28, 2015, 12:12 am

        Ah, but the Talmudic logic flies counter clockwise to what the Word of God actually says. Therefore, whose logic is at play in Israeli-stine?

      • can of worms
        May 28, 2015, 1:29 am

        Palestinian resistance began with one state with equal rights for all — and now, after the death of the 2ss, the people are again turning to one state with equal rights for all. The 1ss is not a “strategy”, it rests on self-evident moral truths and needs no Hasbara. Those oppressed will redesign a more democratic and economically inclusive state, taking lessons from other historical transitions.

        That’s the first lesson for you Neggy. Land is not Jabotinsky’s piece of cloth, it has people on it.

        Thanks for the geometry lesson, presumably you didn’t notice how your own “strategy” creates the grossest state crimes and state terror, on daily and yearly bases.

  15. a blah chick
    May 27, 2015, 4:07 pm

    “Later in 2014 Erdan recommended building new settlements and annexing the West Bank as a punitive measure against Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas for pursuing action at the United Nations.”

    But then they go on to say that settlement building has nothing to do with Palestinians.

    • RockyMissouri
      May 28, 2015, 12:42 pm

      Chilling. Palestinians matter…even more than the Adelson’s money. The world won’t forget the inhuman way Israel treated them.

  16. jon s
    May 27, 2015, 4:42 pm

    Ms. Hotovely and extremists like her love to use that quote from Rashi:

    “Rashi says the Torah opens with the story of the creation of the world so that if the nations of the world come and tell you that you are occupiers, you must respond that all of the land belonged to the creator of the world and when he wanted to, he took from them and gave to us.”

    The late Prof. Yeshayahu Leibowitz pointed out years ago that the emphasis is on God’s will: “when he wanted to”. And so when He wanted to He gave (the land) to us and then when He wanted to gave it to the Romans and then to the Arabs and then to the Crusaders and then to the Mamelukes… and so on…The religious right-wingers deliberately choose to misunderstand Rashi. The real meaning is that God can give us the land , and can also take it away.

    • Annie Robbins
      May 27, 2015, 5:12 pm

      The real meaning is that God can give us the land , and can also take it away.

      the meaning that stands out for me, whether hotovely, rashi or liebowitz (if i am understanding you correctly) by attributing the ownership of the land to god’s will, denies man or man’s law from agency. if one doesn’t think of god as an agent over the relationship between man and land ownership one can throw all of this out the window. the idea of god “giving” the land doesn’t mean ownership, it means give us to enjoy experience, live on, bring sustenance — things like this. for example, because the tree grows on the land god gave the tree doesn’t mean the tree owns the land. The real meaning of God gave us the land means all things are gifts from god and therefore the land is too. only in this sense did god give us the land (and sea and sky).

      and “he took from them and gave to us” simply means energy moves thru/transforms things, creating different energy. like god took energy from the trees and gave us oxygen to breathe or the clouds took water from the earth and gave it to the rain which in turn gave it to the land. it doesn’t mean ownership in the sense man understands it wrt real estate or possessions. and ‘takes away’ can be understood as this same principle, which one supposes any wise person or layman could comprehend.

      • jon s
        May 28, 2015, 4:57 pm

        Annie,
        That’s an interesting and original approach to the topic, worth thinking about.
        In the Biblical text, God promises the land to the people of Israel, a good land, a land of “milk and honey”. But the promise is conditional on living according to God’s commandments. Violate those commandments – murder, steal, oppress the stranger, desecrate the Sabbath ,worship other gods,and so on- and you’ll lose the land. See, for example, Deuteronomy, chapter 11.

      • Mooser
        May 29, 2015, 1:50 pm

        “Violate those commandments – murder, steal, oppress the stranger, desecrate the Sabbath ,worship other gods,and so on- and you’ll lose the land. See, for example, Deuteronomy, chapter 11.”

        Wow, it’s a good thing the Zionists didn’t do any of those things, or God would have come down on them like a load of bricks!
        And further, since God hasn’t taken the land from the Zionist, it is obvious they haven’t done any of those things, right “Jon s”?

    • Mooser
      May 27, 2015, 5:15 pm

      “Ms. Hotovely and extremists like her…”

      Good ol’ “Jon s” always ready to say something bad about other Israelis. But, of course, only to us at Mondo. Actually oppose those “extremists”? Nah, not so much.

      C’mon, “Jons” show us the daylight between you two. There isn’t any.

    • eljay
      May 27, 2015, 7:15 pm

      || jon s: The real meaning is that God can give us the land , and can also take it away. ||

      And yet, in intentional defiance of your god and his will, you fight the people he has sent to take the land from you*. “Thy will be done…when I feel like it.” Interesting.

      _____________________
      (*Actually, you fight the people who want to take back the land you’ve stolen from them…but we’ll set that fact aside for the moment.)

  17. German Lefty
    May 27, 2015, 5:07 pm

    Israeli embassy slams ‘outrageous’ Dutch textbook
    About the establishment of the State of Israel, the book states that David Ben Gurion, Israel’s first prime minister, declared statehood after “Jewish militias carried out murders in Arab villages, and hundreds of thousands of Palestinians fled and settled in refugee camp across the border.”
    http://www.jta.org/2015/05/26/news-opinion/world/israeli-embassy-slams-outrageous-dutch-textbook

  18. benedict
    May 27, 2015, 5:36 pm

    Allison
    You made a major mistake. Hotovely is not haredi (ultra-orthodox). I don’t know where you got that strange piece of information about Hotovely being the only female haredi in the parliament. In fact she is national-religious just like Bennet.

    • aloeste
      May 28, 2015, 2:23 pm

      concur. she went to dati leumi schools , and joined likud instead of Bayit Yehudi, and has much more influence where she is . it is true that she may be the first cabinet minister who wears a sheitel though; as does the director of Ruby Rivlin’s office …

      • benedict
        May 28, 2015, 5:22 pm

        Hotovely is not a cabinet minister.

  19. oldgeezer
    May 27, 2015, 5:39 pm

    The inmates are truly running the asylum. Amusing that she sees herself in a position to dictate to 7bn people.

    I do feel sympathy with any professional members on her staff. They know there is going to be no end to the laughs and jokes behind their backs if they start using biblical texts to back international relations. Perhaps the staff have been groomed to be nutters as well though.

  20. talknic
    May 27, 2015, 6:24 pm

    Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely “Rashi says the Torah opens with the story of the creation of the world so that if the nations of the world come and tell you that you are occupiers, you must respond that all of the land belonged to the creator of world and when he wanted to, he took from them and gave to us.”

    The world!!! She’s a raving $%^&# lunatic.

    • aloeste
      May 28, 2015, 2:25 pm

      did you read the Rashi? every school kid in cheder knows this Rashi.

      • talknic
        May 29, 2015, 7:34 pm

        I read about the Holocaust … G-d didn’t show up! In fact G-d didn’t prevent anything that befell our Jewish fellows

  21. yonah fredman
    May 27, 2015, 7:21 pm

    never mind, covered in previous comments.

    • Mooser
      May 28, 2015, 6:12 pm

      “never mind, covered in previous comments.”

      ROTFLMSJAO!!! You do have a sense of humor, Yonah!

  22. RoHa
    May 27, 2015, 8:45 pm

    “Tzipi Hotovely explained she is on a mission to convince the world that Israel inherited the occupied Palestinian territories from God.”

    It will be hard going to convince that very large part of the world that does not believe in God, and pretty tough to convince the part that does believe but want to see at least a signed deed of transfer.

    She will have better chance if she can get God to appear at the UN and confirm her claims.

    • Boomer
      May 28, 2015, 6:04 pm

      re: “She will have a better chance if she can get God to appear at the UN and confirm her claims.”

      Well, yes, that could be impressive. But even then, the question would arise–assuming that this God could prove that He was, indeed, y-h-v-h–why this should matter to other nations, other people, who have their own gods (or modern functional equivalent, such as football). http://booksnthoughts.com/ancient-jews-believed-in-the-existence-of-many-gods/

      • Mooser
        May 28, 2015, 6:14 pm

        So let me get this straight. The God who didn’t show up for the Holocaust, will show up to intervene in the Zionist’s behalf? Yeah, OK.

  23. xaf
    May 28, 2015, 3:38 am

    Hotovely is not “ultra-orthodox” aka haredi. She comes from the so-called “dati leumi” sector of the country, meaning Religious Nationalist.

    Many ultra-Orthodox Jews are non or even anti-Zionist.

  24. RobertHenryEller
    May 28, 2015, 3:48 am

    From everything I grew up being taught that being Jewish was about, I can only conclude that Israelis are not Jews, cannot be Jews. The nicest way to put this is that Israelis are fake Jews. But I often do not put things in the nicest way. Because the description “fake Jew” is too passive, too innocent, of how Israelis live and act.

    Same goes for all “Jewish” Zionists.

  25. German Lefty
    May 28, 2015, 4:30 am

    The Real News: Manifestations of Apartheid Israel
    Shir Hever, economist at the Alternative Information Center, says segregation begins five seconds after disembarking in Israel and there is blatant racism of various kinds isolating Arabs.

  26. Boomer
    May 28, 2015, 5:45 am

    Zionism uses ancient scripture and myth, but it also grows out of a 19th century racist and imperialist worldview which, unfortunately, is still highly influential in the U.S., including the Obama administration. Mr. Robert Kaplan says the middle east needs more imperialism. Here is a good analysis of that: http://www.thenation.com/blog/208161/whats-wrong-robert-kaplans-nostalgia-empire#

  27. Kay24
    May 28, 2015, 7:25 am

    Here is one of our leaders showing the usual devotion, loyalty, and love, to that alien nation (which pays for his political campaigns) even over his own nation:

    “JERUSALEM – Senator Lindsey Graham vowed on Wednesday to lead “violent pushback” against the United Nations if it “tries to take over the peace process” between Israel and the Palestinians, and against any nation that pushes to prosecute Israeli soldiers for war crimes through the International Criminal Court.

    Mr. Graham, Republican of South Carolina and an all-but-official contender for his party’s presidential nomination, acknowledged on questioning that the pushback would not be literally violent, but perhaps virulent, in the form of withdrawing United States financial aid to nations or international institutions.

    “I am in charge of the foreign assistance account, I’m in charge of the money we provide for the United Nations,” he explained, referring to his chairmanship of an appropriations subcommittee.

    “We provide 25 percent of the funding for the organization,” Mr. Graham said, several times. “I’m not going to ask the American taxpayer to fund an organization that’s going to be used in a way to marginalize” Israel, which he called “our best friend.”

    Mr. Graham is the latest in a spree of possible Republican presidential candidates to visit Jerusalem — they might soon qualify for a group discount at hotels like the fancy King David, where he spent about 20 minutes with a handful of journalists — following former Gov. Mike Huckabee of Arkansas, who led six busloads of pilgrims on a $5,250-per-head tour in February, and Gov. Scott Walker of Wisconsin, who made his first trip this month.

    Mr. Graham, who said he has visited Israel “about a dozen” times, met on Wednesday with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu as well as his more conservative coalition partner, Naftali Bennett, and to the leader of the opposition, Isaac Herzog. He also toured Israel’s Parliament – his first time – with Michael B. Oren, a newly elected lawmaker and “an old, dear friend of mine,” who served as Israel’s ambassador to the United States.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/05/27/lindsey-graham-reiterates-support-for-israel-our-best-friend/

    Aw, what fierce protection, and love, for Israel.

    • a blah chick
      May 28, 2015, 8:45 am

      “Aw, what fierce protection, and love, for Israel.”

      I hope he brought his knee pads.

      • Kay24
        May 28, 2015, 8:56 am

        They are worn out by now ABC, just like the ones owned by most of the congress. :))

    • RockyMissouri
      May 28, 2015, 1:31 pm

      Israel imprisons its own soldiers who speak out against the things they have done. Going home to your own children and family …after you’ve taken a sleeping Palestinian child for interrogation..has to mess with your mind!

      • Kay24
        May 30, 2015, 5:55 am

        It should mess the mind of any person who is compassionate and has a conscience. That leaves most of those zionist out.

  28. Boo
    May 28, 2015, 3:53 pm

    I hope they keep that tight focus. Tunnel vision like theirs is the bane of any battle. To quote Nappy Brown, “Somethin’ gonna jump out the bushes and graaaabbb you!”

  29. Bornajoo
    May 28, 2015, 4:32 pm

    Dear Tzipi Hotovely. Please keep delivering your message loudly, clearly, as often as possible and to as many people on this planet as you possibly can

    Thank you for at least being an honest zionist and for explaining to the ignorant and misinformed masses around the world (but most importantly in the usa) what the real and true zionist agenda is and what it has always been.

    Please try and get your statements and views published in the new York times and as much of the other msm as possible.

    I for one am very grateful to you for this and may your God grant you unlimited strength and conviction to carry out this important work and may as many of your colleagues as possible join you in your quest

  30. piotr
    May 28, 2015, 6:38 pm

    Bryan: Finally, outside of the Bible itself their is not a jot of evidence that God has ever engaged in conversation with humans, or snakes, or asses, that God makes promises, or even exists.

    Nothing could be further from the truth. Amaterasu is a very fine goddess and an ancestress of Japanese imperial family, so somewhere along the line there had to be a direct intercourse between a god and a human. Somewhat atypically, Japan was created by gods and then given to the Japanese who did not had to conquer anything. (At least they got central Japan without any problems). I think a god promised Mexico to Aztecs who had to trek from their ancestral Aztlan to get the prize, which they had to conquer. Heracles got the land of Peloponesus from Zeus and promised it to his ancestors, but they were sadly expelled. No worry! Heraclids returned and ruled Laconia, Argos etc. Incidentally, their periods of exile and return are dated very similarly as those of Hebrews. (Spartans were most note-worthy Heraclids and allegedly their story was inspiring to Jews in the last centuries B.C.) Wotan not only speaks to humans, but he also sings very nicely in deep baritone. Indian gods were tramping all around Bharata as avatars. I could fill a library with literary sources, photographs of the respective locations and so on.

    For example, why do we play with a rubber ball? It all started with a ball games between humans and gods of the underworld.

  31. ToivoS
    May 31, 2015, 6:00 pm

    When I saw this statement by Hotelvy my first reaction was to this:

    http://blog.ninapaley.com/2012/10/01/this-land-is-mine/comment-page-4/

    “This land is my land”!

  32. Salubrius
    March 21, 2016, 2:35 pm

    God did give it to us. But the WWI Allies recognized it is ours because of our long association with it — some 3,700 years. SSRN.com/abstract=2679399 , SSRN.com/abstract=2385304
    The Jewish People didn’t want immediate statehood in 1920 so they got it placed in trust for them until they were a population majority and ca[able of exercising sovereignty. The British discussed this in a memorandum by Arnold Toynbee and Lewis Namier officially published by the British Foreign Office as an explanation of the Balfour Declaration. The Americans adopted the same view in their proposal of January 21, 1919 at the Paris Peace Talks.
    It is right that Palestine should become a Jewish state, if the Jews, being given the full opportunity, make it such. It was the cradle and home of their vital race, which has made large spiritual contributions to mankind, and is the only land in which they can hope to find a home of their own; they being in this last respect unique among significant peoples.
    At present, however, the Jews form barely a sixth of the total population of 700,000 in Palestine, and whether they are to form a majority, or even a plurality, of the population in the future state remains uncertain. Palestine, in short, is far from being a Jewish country now. England, as mandatory, can be relied on to give the Jews the privileged position they should have without sacrificing the rights of non-Jews.
    The Allies won the land from the Ottoman Empire in a defensive war and the Ottomans ceded it to the Palestine Mandatory in the Treaty of Sevres, confirmed in major part in The treaty of Lausanne. The trust created by the Allies permitted the Jews to settle immediately and provided that the trust res of the collective political rights to self-determination would vest when the Jews attained a population majority and capability to exercise sovereignty. It did so partly in 1948 and partly in 1967 MK Hotovely recently recounted some of this history to a group of students from the Harvard Law School disabusing them of the notion that the Palestinian Arab residents of the West Bank ever had a state..

  33. talknic
    March 21, 2016, 8:48 pm

    Israel is a UN Member.

    The UN Charter is binding in its entirety on all UN Members.

    It specifically obliges Israel to adhere to the binding UN Charter and binding International Laws re-affirmed and emphasized or otherwise mentioned in ANY UN resolution reminding Israel of those obligations.

    The Netanyahu cabinet members are obviously quite insane and in no fit state of mind to be part of any government

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